As Seen in Vanity Fair's August 2006 Issue!
As Seen in US News & World Report's September 11 Fifth Anniversary Issue!
As Seen in Time Magazine's September 11, 2006 Issue!
As Seen in Phoenix New Times' August 9, 2007 Issue!
Tuesday, July 28, 2009
Funny Conspiracy Theories
David Wong may not understand my politics ;), but he knows the conspiracy theory idiots as well as anybody:
1. The average conspiracy theorist will argue with NASA, Nobel-prize winners and every expert in the world despite having fewer qualifications than the average fry cook. 2. Conspiracy theorists view logical argument as cheating. 3. Like pissing fetishes and tentacle rape comics, conspiracy theories are a problem made much worse by the Internet. 4. Never assume malice when incompetence will do.
His hook for the post is that apparently Whoopi Goldberg expressed some support for the "Moon Truth" theory on the 40th anniversary the other day, although all those bullet points can apply to 9-11 Troof as well). Incidentally, we are getting tons of traffic from this older post of David's on the Loose Change phenomenon. It's an excellent and very funny piece.
Update: Hat Tip to Billman for pointing these two articles out in the comments.
Dylan promises to donate some of the money to the first responders. Of course earlier he said that he would donate more than the creators of United 93 did, a claim which conveniently disappeared down the memory hole.
Dramatically narrated by Daniel Sunjata, currently starring on FX’s critically acclaimed “Rescue Me” as Franco Rivera, “Loose Change 9/11: An American Coup” explores historical events that reshaped the world – from the Reichstag Fire in 1933 that catapulted Hitler to dictatorship - to the Gulf of Tonkin Incident in 1964 that led to the Vietnam War. The film leads the audience through a roller-coaster of pivotal history before delving into the largest event of all - 9/11. The film analyzes the steps America took in the aftermath of the disaster, and the suspicious events that followed.
Filmmaker Dylan Avery’s vision and hope is for those affected by 9/11 to receive the answers they seek. He asks for a fundamental call to action, as displayed in the previous “Loose Change” films, and supports the 9/11 truth movement by seeking honesty and clarity from those who have covered up actual events. A topic that inspires passion among many, the producers are actively seeking celebrities to be a voice for those whose questions have remained unanswered to date.
For some unknown reason, they are releasing the film on 9/22/09. At least, that is the current projected release date; we all know that Dylan seldom meets his deadlines. Here's Dylan and Sunjata on the Jack Blood show (MP3 file) to discuss the latest iteration.
Update: Listening to Dylan now. Some things are pretty clear; Dylan's other projects didn't pan out. He hints but does not directly say what's been pretty obvious to me; he made Loose Change not to be a 9-11 conspiracy guy but to be a filmmaker. You can sense this when he talks about how he was done making 9-11 CT films after Final Cut. Also note how he dances around the reason for the lack of success with FC; as we said at the time, it was more of a LIHOP film, but obviously he doesn't want to acknowledge that so Blood helps him out by saying the film was "more accessible".
My advice to Dylan remains the same; if he really wants to be a filmmaker he's probably got enough experience that he could get into a film school, which is what he should be concentrating on.
Update: Unsecured Coins has an announcement as well:
Update II: The news has electrified the Loose Change forums; so far there's one thread on the new movie with one comment:
Wow, this was terrific. Rebecca Watson of the Skepchick Site appears on a podcast (4/23/09 show if you're coming across this much later) discussing Loose Change. She does a great job of talking about the various iterations of the film, and notes the many pieces of "evidence" that were dropped by the wayside with no explanation as the film morphed over the years. The hosts are very knowledgeable about the topic as well.
The only negative is that Loose Change is only the second half of the show, so you have to skip ahead about 15 minutes if you want to listen to the Loose Change segment only.
Thanks to 9-11 Real Truth for pointing this out in the comments. On the email situation, you cannot imagine what my inbox for SLC looks like; Truthers have signed me up for every bulk spammer everywhere and there's no way to solve that problem. If you want to contact James or me, use the comments; we read and respond to those much, much quicker than we do to emails.
It should be the duty of not just every scientist and historian, but also of every writer, publisher, movie-maker, TV producer and ordinary citizen to fight all attempts to exploit the ignorance and gullibility of audiences. Today’s silly conspiracy theory in the West can easily become tomorrow’s article of faith in the world at large. Quite simply, we play with facts at our peril. From selling fiction as truth in movies to peddling the big lies of counter-knowledge is not such a very big step after all.
The column notes Loose Change specifically and also mentions Damian Thompson's Counterknowledge.
For "financing" Loose Change? As you may know, Cuban has been served with a civil complaint by the SEC alleging that he engaged in insider trading. However, according to a New York Times blog (it must be true!), one of the lawyers for the SEC noted Cuban's proposed financing of Loose Change Final Cut:
Mark: If this upsets you, I wonder how George Bush feels. I assume that Mr. Cox would view your involvement with “Loose Change” much as I do. After all, he served his country as a Republican Congressman from Orange County for nearly 20 years and was appointed by President Bush. If you feel like sharing my thoughts with Chairman Cox, be my guest.
The time frame fits, although the NY Times' blogger apparently is unaware that Cuban did not end up financing the film (or distributing it, which I believe was the deal being discussed at the time). Note also the way he describes the film:
This e-mail message seems to have been sent after an exchange in which Mr. Norris complained that Mr. Cuban had financed a movie called “Loose Change” that discusses the president’s actions relating to Sept. 11.
Yeah, and Fahrenheit 9-11 discusses kite-flying in Iraq.
Buy a single sleeved "Bare Bones" Loose Change 2nd Edition DVD priced at near cost, get another one for free! Plus, we'll throw in a 10-pack of bumper stickers for free.
For only $9.95, you can get the DVD that Dylan himself noted "does contain errors dubious claims and comes to conclusions which are not backed up by the facts", and which Dylan said was "made by a bunch of kids".
George Monbiot: Griffin and Avery are Frauds and Charlatans
Bingo! I haven't listened to the entire program yet, but left-wing columnist George Monbiot debated DRG and Dylan Avery on the James Whale radio program, TalkSport. Monbiot does a pretty good job on the debunking aspects and (mostly) succeeds in avoiding getting caught up in the minutiae that the Troofers specialize in. But at about 25 minutes in Monbiot gives us a stand up and cheer moment. Talking about the many changes in the various versions of Loose Change (he's seen Final Cut):
Monbiot: But what infuriates me about Tim (Sparke, Loose Change executive producer) and about David and these other people is that when their first story collapses, they don't acknowledge that fact, they just pass on to the next crazy story, without recognizing that the first story has been swept away from under their feet, and that to me is the mark of a fraud and a charlatan.
Whale: Are you accusing the moviemakers of being frauds and charlatans?
Monbiot: Yes.
An in-your-face slam-dunk on David Ray Griffin who is reduced to sputtering about his "evidence". The segment comes up as Monbiot hits on the ever-changing nature of the "Truth" as revealed in the various Loose Change versions. Monbiot stings Griffin well by asking him to come down as to whether he agrees with Loose Change II, which came down heavily on the "no-planer" side of the Pentagon issue, or Loose Change FC, which does some modest debunking of the "no-planes" theory. Of course, Griffin conveniently professes agnosticism on the issue.
You can download the MP3 here; it's a 90-meg file. I am not sure if the entire three hour program is dedicated to 9-11 issues.
In my previous post, I pointed out a video that I assumed was a clever parody of Loose Change espousing "no-planer" type theories. Of course, as several commenters pointed out, it was actually Loose Change I. Which proves Monbiot's point; Dylan has never acknowledged the errors he made in his earlier films, despite the fact that they now look pretty ludicrous. Indeed, the last official comment Dylan made on the nutty "pod" theory was that he still believed it (at the end of their video on the 9-11-05 Trooferfest).
Update: I originally said it was BBC radio; I should have just said it was British radio.
I'll admit, I assumed that he had served his full hitch, but apparently that is not the case.
"We developed information that he was at a county Route 47 residence in Oneonta last night," Devlin said Tuesday.
Rowe was arrested on a "military warrant" that Devlin said was brought to the attention of deputies by the Oneonta Police Department, who received information from a source outside of that department.
The article states that deserters are not often prosecuted, with only about 5% actually getting court-martialed, although I'd guess that goes up with the prominence of the person and the openness of the desertion.
Update: Our buddy SFC B (aka Detailed Recruiter) provides some context in the comments section:
Obviously I know nothing about Rowe's situation specifically, but I'm willing to hazard a guess about what has happened.
Recently the Army did an IRR muster where Soldiers currently in the IRR were ordered to report for a physical.
This is not the first time such a muster has happened, however, unlike previous musters, the Army was, apparently, very serious about this, and actually declared those who failed to report as AWOL.
I'm willing to bet that Rowe received such orders, ignored them, was declared AWOL, and a warrant was filed.
If there is one person poised to make a killing in the 9-11 Denial market, it is Alex Jones. Jones has done a spectacular job of turning one lucky prediction (and ignoring dozens of unlucky ones) into a lifetime career at the top of the multilevel marketing pyramid that is 9-11 Truth.
Jones became famous for his "prediction of 9-11" in July of 2001:
It looks like he did call Bin Laden for a terrorist strike, although he gets no points for the WTC mention because it is in the context of past events (i.e., he is referring to the 1993 WTC bombing).
Update: Perry Logan points out in the comments that Jones did not actually predict an attack; what he did was tell his minions to call the White House and warn them that if there was an attack they knew it wasn't really Osama Bin Laden. This is kind of a "free pass" for Jones because if there is no attack, he can claim his supporters called the White House in sufficient numbers to alert them that they would not get away with it, and if there is an attack, he can claim to have "predicted" it. So, no, Jones did not make a psychic prediction.
Jones is a shrewd self-promoter who is one of the few people to stay atop the 9-11 tiger for years without getting mauled. He has the most influential radio program in the 9-11 Denial movement and more important, he has access to TV and radio hosts upstream who will let him on with a "breaking" news story, like Matt Lepacek's arrest a couple weeks ago, which got him on Coast to Coast AM.
He consolidated his hold on the upper reaches of the movement by bankrolling the Final Maybe Rough Cut of Loose Change, and absorbing We Are Change into his empire. The latter has already paid dividends, but Alex griped about keeping the Looser crew afloat a couple days ago and asked for contributions. The fact that they tried to flog that pathetic story about Barry Jennings as some revelation certainly indicates that the Loosers don't have anything new and breaking in their film.
Jones' worldview is paranoid in the extreme. I have not listened to enough of his shows to get a firm view, but he seems to be manic/depressive. Periodically he will ride the high wave but inevitably he will crash into the slough of despond. As with many Truthers, he believes ridiculous stuff without batting an eyelash while professing himself a "skeptic" of the official story.
Jones is avidly anti-illegal immigrant; it is one of his few mainstream stances. In a startling anecdote from his June 19, 2007 show, he claims that his antipathy to illegals stems from an incident when he was 17 and four Mexicans broke his leg in a fight (44:34):
"I mean I was brought up, my parents taught me about history and everything, but I wasn't brought up to dislike any other group, so it wasn't until years later that I realized that when--I say five, it was really four Mexicans, one of them stood by--broke my leg, that was a racial attack, but do I blame all Mexicans because, for no reason, four Mexicans attacked me when I was 16 years old and broke my leg? Yeah, I beat up about three of them and then they finally all jumped and tackled me and just with boots on purpose, knew how to fight, broke my leg, on purpose and then kicked me in the face and laughed at me...."
Jones also makes wild claims about how illegal aliens are planning to kill us all (40:05):
"The US is under military attack. The illegal aliens that are in this nation many of them see themselves as fighters. They openly write about it. And they have been told that when the word comes down that they are to set fire to every major US city."
Because, you see, the Islamists don't want to kill us all, the Mexicans do!
Alex does his best to let us know how bad the illegal aliens are:
"Don't think that for a moment that--Chinese, here they've got over 5000 front companies that are PLA, don't think for a minute that there aren't thousands of Russian commandos here in the US at any one time, and folks, the point is they can use them and they probably are. The New World Order is going to destroy this country one way or the other, and I know you're thinking oh, it can't happen here; it is happening here. But the greatest threat is these illegal aliens, folks. They cannot wait to burn this country down. Mmmmkay?"
Okay, thousands of front companies owned by the Chicoms, thousands of Roosky Rambos and you want us to focus on the guys with the leaf-blowers? Mmmmkay.
The NY Post reports (perhaps optimistically) that Loose Change is losing steam:
A source tells us Charlie Sheen "is having second thoughts" about being involved in an updated version of the flick, which has a huge following on YouTube. As Page Six reported in March, Sheen had agreed to narrate the ridiculous flick, presumably to give it some needed Hollywood sizzle.
And here's an additional detail about Ro's exit from the view:
O'Donnell reportedly had booked the film's producers, Korey Rowe and Dylan Avery, on Thursday's show. But after getting into a fight with Elisabeth Hasselbeck Wednesday, and after her chief writer was caught defacing Hasselbeck's photos with mustaches, O'Donnell left the show.
Say it ain't so, Ro! Rosie O'Donnell indicates in her latest blog entry that she's not sure when she's going back to The View.
Rosie! Will you be back on The View? When?
no idea
Will the Truthers get to present their case? 9-11 Blogger confirms that the Willie Rodriguez/Looser Segment originally planned for tomorrow (Thursday) is shelved.
I don't know what to say about this bizarre murder case where the alleged killer is a former FEMA videographer claiming that the US is out to get him because he knows the "Truth" about 9-11. That he's claiming this nonsense leads me to be a tad more suspicious he did kill his wife, because we know his proof will turn out to be nothing, and if he's lying about that.... But I'll cheerily admit, I couldn't come up with a take that seemed interesting.
Yet Muslim attitudes about U.S. foreign policy are unique in some contexts. Only 40 percent of Muslims in America believe that the Sept. 11 attacks were carried out by Arabs.
You can argue that makes them a little bit better than the Democrats according to the recent poll that found only 39% of them thought Bush didn't know in advance about 9-11.
Longtime friend of this blog, Damian Penny discusses the program, still shown on ABC's schedule for tomorrow. Although Dylan and Jason have both indicated that their appearance has been pushed back, this may be an effort to slide in under the radar and avoid the controversy that resulted in Virgin Atlantic "pulling" their video and Mark Cuban backing out of a production deal. I do note that over at 9-11 Blogger the show is still being promoted, with DZ commenting:
There are unconfirmed rumors about a guest list change, but these aren't solid enough to be public.. I have promises that we will be the first to know if it does change for sure, but for now The View site still officially has the guest list above..
Damian has some excellent suggestions for Elisabeth:
Before the Loosers show up on The View, I strongly advise Hasselbeck to take a crash course in 9/11 conspiracy debunking. She can start by watching Screw Loose Change: The Not Freakin’ Again Edition, an annotated rebuttal film which can be viewed here. The blogs Screw Loose Change (not affiliated with the movie) and 9/11 Conspiracy Smasher do a superb job of keeping tabs on the Loosers’ constantly mutating conspiracy theories, and 911Myths features detailed, sensible explanations for nearly every so-called “anomaly” in the so-called “official story” of September 11.
Reported today by Dylan and Korey on Alex Jones; they're saying it's going to be a week or so later, but they are hopeful they'll get a longer segment out of it. Now they're claiming that Popular Mechanics refused to debate them; they also claimed that PM will be solo with Elisabeth Hasselbeck because they're afraid of Rosie. LOL!
A little later on Korey said that he endorses Screw Loose Change! Thanks, Korey, we know you've got our back!
Mary MacAlveen is back with another column touching on a topic we've discussed quite often around here:
I often wonder if those who believe in conspiracy theories act in a cult like fashion in which anyone who questions the group as a whole is often shunned. One definition of a cult is a small group of devotees. In challenging the conspiracies that surround 9/11 even though I said I would not address this issue again, I felt the need to. It was in challenging these beliefs I was told by someone that I was in the minority and as stated previously, I asked; who was this person polling.
I will state again that while in the beginning I too believed in these theories, I had to open my mind to other possibilities which brought about the devastation of that day. In speaking to so many people outside the Internet community, I did not find one who did believe that it was a grand conspiracy perpetrated by our government. When I relayed to most of the people I spoke with that certain articles were being circulated around the Internet that Virginia Tech was a perpetrated by the government, it was met with complete outrage and disgust. I stated to those I conversed with, do not shoot the messenger, meaning me. But, they were dumbfounded.
Some excellent discussion of controlled demolition, especially this very telling point:
In this feed: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79sJ1bMR6VQ which was NOT a CDI (Controlled Demolitions Incorporated) project, you will clearly see how the building is first weakened throughout the structure through a series of timed and sequential blasts. But at the bottom is the major blast which takes down the building. Please tell me if any janitor at the bottom of the Twin Towers could live to tell about it. The answer is no. Also take note of the sounds coming from that structure as they are blowing it. In the case of all of the towers, you did not hear anything like that.
Historical accuracy was of no concern to Rebecca Smith, Virgin Atlantic's manager of acquisitions and publishing, who seems more interested in the buzz generated by paranoid morons. The film, she told British media, was an "internet phenomenon". So were forbidden images of the prophet Mohammad after Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten published cartoons of old Mo in 2005.
Will Virgin Atlantic be running those images in its in-flight magazine? No? Why not? After all, the cartoons qualify for publication, at least according to Smith's criteria for screening Loose Change 2: "It continues to provoke debate and for that reason we feel it's something our passengers will want to watch, so that they can draw their own conclusions."
They'll more likely be drawing their own conclusions about Virgin Atlantic and withdrawing their bookings on that airline. Or maybe not, following developments mentioned below.
