Friday, May 26, 2006

Debunking the Debunkers Who Debunk the Debunkers

Is not all that difficult. On our sidebar, you'll see a link to 9-11 Myths, which is a terrific site dedicated to debunking the Truthers. Mike presents a myth, then proceeds to shatter it, with logic and links to source data.

So obviously what is required from the 9-11 "Truth" movement is for somebody to debunk 9-11 Myths. And indeed, somebody named Chris Morganti has provided that noble service, for which he is often cited by Loosers on their forum.

Unfortunately, even a brief look at Morganti's site reveals it is not up to the task of proving or disproving anything. His "debunking" of 9-11 Myths consists mostly of saying "I don't believe that."

Check out his discussion of "foreknowledge".

On the claim that Ashcroft stopped flying commercial planes after a credible threat (true with regard to official business, although Ashcroft continued to fly commercial when taking private trips), and that this indicated foreknowledge of 9-11, 9-11 Myths provides three links to debunk the foreknowledge nonsense. Morganti's response?

All this proves is that John Ashcroft lied about not being warned to fly. Also, Michael Moore is most definitely NOT part of the 9/11 Truth movement. Michael Moore totally white washed 9/11 in his documentary Fahrenheit 9/11.

No links, no logical argument, just an assertion.

On the warning that Willie Brown received (true) from Condoleezza Rice (false), Mike provides a logical argument, buttressed by links to two newspaper articles. Chris responds with this:

All this proves is that Mayor Willie Brown didn't take Condoleeza Rice advice. The thing you have to think about is, is it just a coincidence so many public officials decided not to go to New York, or not to fly on the day of September 11th?

I think you get the picture. We don't have to worry too much about the folks debunking the debunkers. They're bunk.

10 Comments:

At 26 May, 2006 09:30, Blogger James B. said...

LOL That is pretty lame. This is his response to a long and detailed explanation of the mistaken indentities behind the "hijackers are still alive" theory.

His response is not true, for the reason that the Hijackers[sic] saw there[sic] names and photos on television and actually went to the American embassy in Saudi Arabia and told the authorities that they wanted there[sic] names and photos taken off the FBI most wanted list.

 
At 26 May, 2006 15:28, Blogger nesNYC said...

Is not all that difficult. On our sidebar, you'll see a link to 9-11 Myths, which is a terrific site dedicated to debunking the Truthers. Mike presents a myth, then proceeds to shatter it, with logic and links to source data.

911myths isn't really a good source of information. All they do is make "educated guesses" at a lot of their "debunking" and really don't back it up with anything else. There are a lot of "it was a coincidence" or "it could have actually" or "they're seeing too much into this" type of suggestive assumptions.

 
At 26 May, 2006 16:04, Blogger shawn said...

911myths isn't really a good source of information. All they do is make "educated guesses" at a lot of their "debunking" and really don't back it up with anything else.

Better than your uneducated guesses without any support, no?

Although your characterization of the site is totally false anyway.

 
At 26 May, 2006 16:22, Blogger nesNYC said...

Although your characterization of the site is totally false anyway.

Not really. Take the email from Chertoff, not corroborating facts accompany it. They could just be making it up.

But the Bollyn article has his mother on record corroborating it. If the 911myth site was factual, there would be some official release Certoff in PM is not actually related to Chertoff in Homeland Security. To date, no official clarification of the matter has been released to the public.

I could point out numerous such inconsistencies in the 911myth site but well keep it at that, for now.

 
At 26 May, 2006 16:30, Blogger shawn said...

I could point out numerous such inconsistencies in the 911myth site but well keep it at that, for now.

Oh I get, it's ok for conspiracy theorists to do this, but it's not ok when debunking the conspiracy theories themselves. I love this broken kevlar logic.

 
At 26 May, 2006 17:34, Blogger James B. said...

But the Bollyn article has his mother on record corroborating it. If the 911myth site was factual, there would be some official release Certoff in PM is not actually related to Chertoff in Homeland Security.

Yeah, I am sure getting in arguments with neo-nazi rags is really high on their priority list.

 
At 26 May, 2006 19:01, Blogger nesNYC said...

Yeah, I am sure getting in arguments with neo-nazi rags is really high on their priority list.

He went there but didn't really conclude anything, so what's the point? But yeah, "neo-nazis" don't deserve the time of day. I agree, especially if it's THESE kinds of "neo-nazis."

 
At 27 May, 2006 08:10, Blogger shawn said...

I agree, especially if it's THESE kinds of "neo-nazis."

The American people knew about the Holocaust well before the '70s.

Ever heard of a man named Eichmann? He was tried in the 60s, and it was A BIG FUCKING DEAL.

Not to mention all the information coming from the liberated camps in the 40s. Nope, no one heard about that.

 
At 03 July, 2006 00:36, Blogger BoggleHead said...

"Some of the hijackers were trained to fly by the US Government"

The Hijackers section of 9/11 Myths seems to think that it would make sense if Mohammed Atta were trained by the US government, and if three of the hijackers were sent as a unit to train as a unit with the US military by Saudi Arabia... that makes sense too.

9/11 Myths suggests at the end of this section that all this would be very normal.

"The hijackers reportedly had girlfriends, drank alcohol, went clubbing, not the acts of fundamentalists"

The hijackers went on three day cocaine binges, drank to excess and boisterously claimed to be pilots, leaving an expensive looking copy of the Koran at the bar. The reason according to 9/11Myths? To blend in and not draw attention, of course.
Just say "Takfiri" and this entire problem is resolved.

"Mohammed Atta was a regular visitor to Jack Abramoffs casinos"

This section cites three reports where everyone agrees that employees of SunCruz recognized some of the hijackers and that their name(s) matched.

"No confirmation that it was Atta here"

Cause the FBI confiscated the video tapes and never said one way or another.

On another note, we have confirmed trips to Vegas so it would appear to fit a pattern, especially considering that the hijackers lived much closer to the SunCruz casino boats than Vegas.

"These reports provide the possibility that the ”Atta as regular visitor” claim is true, then, but they certainly don't prove it."

No, that would require somehow magically that the FBI said one way or the other based on the surveillance tapes it confiscated.

The 9/11 cover-up would have to be massive---too massive to carry out.

But you can never have enough FBI agents confiscating all the surveillance footage that would actually prove what happened and then not saying what's on them.

It's not evidence of a cover-up, but rather the primary means by which to debunk eyewitness reports that are fresh in memory at the time, and which are corroborated by matching names.

 
At 25 August, 2006 14:49, Blogger MWTC Survivor said...

As a survivor of the attack (yes, I was there and witnessed the truth first hand), I'm happy to see the inmates aren't the only ones in the asylum. I' so tired of these hack conspiracy nutjobs and their retoric. Thanks for adding some common sense and perspective to the subject!
D. E. Wooldridge

 

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