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(Note: The date on this post is intentional; it keeps this post pinned to the top. Thanks for asking!).

11/11/07 Update: Loose Change Final Cut has just been released and so we have not prepared a full debunking. Both James and I have many comments about the movie below and I started a thread over at JREF with some examples of mistakes in the film. Much of the rest of the information in this particular post concerns the earlier versions of Loose Change.

Because this blog is getting so much traffic from Google searches and referrals from various forums and Wikipedia, we decided to put one post up top to link to information our newest visitors are apparently looking for.

First, if you have not seen the film and want to watch it, be sure to watch Markyx's annotated version, which he very kindly named after this blog, Screw Loose Change. Markyx did a terrific job on this, and we strongly recommend watching this version rather than Dylan Avery's cut.

James has put together a list of major lies in Loose Change. Here's Part 1. Part 2. Part 3. Part 4.

I compiled three very easily refuted lies in the movie. I also showed three tricks and distortions that are used throughout the film.

A friend of the blog named Mark Roberts (aka Gravy at the JREF forums) compiled this amazing Viewer's Guide to Loose Change, (now HTML) which includes a complete transcript of the movie, pictures and links that refute many of the claims, and which highlights the changes between Version 1 and Version 2.

The hot new film in 9-11 Denial is called 9-11 Mysteries. One of our JREF buddies, The Doc, has put together a rebuttal video called (you guessed it!) Screw 9-11 Mysteries, and assembled a viewers' guide to 9-11 Mysteries.

Many 9-11 Deniers focus on the collapse of World Trade Center 7, which fell at 5:20 PM on September 11, almost seven hours after the North Tower. I have devoted a fair amount of research to the topic of WTC 7. If you want a really detailed analysis of WTC 7, I recommend Mark Robert's WTC 7 and the Lies of the 9/11 Truth Movement.

If you'd like to discuss the ideas about 9-11 you've encountered here or elsewhere, another friend of the blog started a Screw Loose Change Forum. It's a very lively place with lots of opinion back and forth between both sides. There's also a Screw Loose Change MySpace page, with some animated commentary. Of course, we also welcome comments on our posts.

If you're looking for detailed rebuttals of other aspects of 9-11 Denial, I heartily recommend 9-11 Myths, Debunking 9-11 and Internet Detectives.

Markyx has also put together a video (note: graphic images and strong language) called 9-11 Deniers Speak. If you think Dylan Avery and Jim Fetzer have any respect for the victims of 9-11, just watch this film. There are five parts. Part II, Part III, Part IV, Part V.
There's also a Google Video which is all in one part.

This should be enough to get you started debunking Loose Change to your friends. We have a lot more content below this post.

Notes on unusual terms/abbreviations: Looser (not a misspelling of Loser)=Believer in Loose Change. CT=Conspiracy Theory, Conspiracy Theorist. Truther=9-11 Conspiracy Theorist (all Loosers are Truthers, not all Truthers are Loosers). OS=Official Story. CD= Controlled Demoliton. LIHOP: Let It Happen On Purpose; theory that the government knew the 9-11 attacks were coming but allowed them to happen to further other goals of theirs. MIHOP: Made It Happen On Purpose; theory that the government planned and orchestrated the attacks. Most Truthers are MIHOP.

Update: Comments closed on this post, which is intended solely as a pointer. Because Haloscan will not let us close comments on a particular post, be forewarned: Don't leave a comment in this post or it will be deleted.

Update II: Note on comments: We maintain open comments on this blog, and so you will see lots of posts from people dissenting with our viewpoint on 9-11. We trust our readers to separate the good arguments from the bad arguments and come to their own conclusions. Links that you see in the comments are of course not endorsed by either James or Pat, and you should approach any link in the comments (as you should approach any link from the blog) with a healthy degree of skepticism.

Quick Quiz

Which of these two gentlemen was convicted and sentenced to 30 years in prison for conspiring to kill federal agents?



Answer here.

Troofers Get a Raging Jew Clue

The Hardley Boys are hard at work on the latest Jew Clue.

The article is a recitation of the usual Troofer talking points about what a terrible pilot Hani Hanjour was. As usual Gaffney mentions Freeway Airport:

During three such flights over two days in a single-engine Cessna 172, instructors Sheri Baxter and Ben Conner observed what others had before them. Hanjour had trouble controlling and landing the aircraft. Afterward, Baxter interviewed Hanjour extensively about his flight training and experience, and also reviewed his flight log, which documented 600 hours of flight time. On this basis she and Conner declined to approve a current license rating until Hanjour returned for more training. On their recommendation, Freeway’s chief instructor Marcel Bernard refused to rent Hanjour a plane.

The Troofers always highlight that Bernard refused to rent Hanjour a plane. But if he was such a terrible pilot, why would they give him three test flights? Wouldn't one have been sufficient? The only reason for the additional test flights is obviously because Hanjour was a borderline candidate, an average to below average pilot, as Bernard put it in Loose Change I and II.

Ah, but the intrepid Gaffney has more for us:

It turns out that just three days after Hani Hanjour failed a flight evaluation in a Cessna 172 at Freeway airport he showed up at Congressional Air Charters, located down the road at Gaithersburg airport, also in the Washington suburbs. Once again Hanjour attempted to rent a plane, and again he was asked to go up with an instructor for a flight evaluation to confirm his flight skills. The plane was the same: a Cessna 172. Yet, on this occasion Hanjour passed with flying colors and, later, this other instructor gave testimony to the commission that turned out to be crucial. The final report mentions the instructor’s name only once in a brief endnote buried at the back of the report. The note states:

Hanjour successfully conducted a challenging certification flight supervised by an instructor at Congressional Air Charter of Gaithersburg, Maryland, landing at a small airport with a difficult approach. The instructor thought Hanjour may have had training from a military pilot because he used a terrain recognition system for navigation. Eddie Shalev interview. (Apr. 9, 2004)[24]

And Eddie Shalev is... dun dun duh! A Jew!

But the shocker is the revelation that Eddie Shalev is an Israeli and served in the Israeli army. The file states that “Mr. Shalev served in the Israeli Defense Forces in a paratroop regiment. He was a jumpmaster on a Boeing C-130. Mr. Shalev moved to the Gaithersburg area in April 2001 and was sponsored for employment by Congressional Air Charters...[which] has subsequently gone out of business.”

The memorandum raises disturbing questions. Consider the staffer’s strange choice of words in describing Shalev’s employment. What did Quinn John Tamm mean when he wrote that Shalev “was sponsored for employment”? Did the commission bother to investigate Congressional Air Charters? It is curious that the charter service subsequently went out of business. But the most important question is: just how thoroughly, if at all, did the commission vet Eddie Shalev? Does his military record include service in the Israeli intelligence community?

Of course, the commission should have dropped its investigation into 9-11 and investigated this Israeli. Seriously, the Troofers have become so invested in their theories that anything that tends to undermine them, like the rental of the plane by Congressional Air Charters (which amazingly, Hani did not crash) is the real crime.

Oh, and get this detail:

Real people have known addresses. But the whereabouts of Eddie Shalev has been unknown for years. As reported by David Griffin, a 2007 search of the national telephone directory, plus Google searches by research librarian Elizabeth Woodworth, turned up no trace of him. A LexisNexis search by Matthew Everett also came up dry.[35] Recent searches by Woodworth and myself indicate that an "Eddy Shalev" resided in Rockville, Maryland as recently as 2007. However, the associated phone number is no longer in service.

Um, is it unkind to point out that if the recent search turned up Shalev in 2007, then that 2007 search of the national telephone directory must have been done poorly.

You know what this reminds me of? The idiotic fascination the Troofers have with the Harley guy, the man on the street who said on 9-11 that the towers collapsed because of fire. Never mind NIST, this is the person who implanted the idea that somehow it was not so surprising that the towers collapsed.

British 7/7 Troofers Have An Adventure

Holocaust Denier and 9/11 and 7/7 Fruitcake Nick Kollerstrom and a prominent 7/7 "researcher" were planning on giving a talk in London. But some debunkers got wind of the meeting and let the hall where the talk was to take place know about some of Kollerstrom's theories and the kooks were uninvited.

With reptilian cunning Obachike has determined the scores of phone calls that Conway Hall received complaining about the event was actually a secret operation to prevent the truth of what happened on July 7th being spread to the eleven people who planned to attend. This was further proved after the MOD infiltrated the left wing book shop Housmans who shocked everyone by also refusing to host a holocaust denier.

Note: MOD means Ministry of Defense

So they adjourned to a pub nearby where Kollerstrom and Obachike gave their spiel. Here's how a fellow troofer described it:

Everyone having paid £5 he led us around Holborn for a while, getting lost once before stopping at a closed down Thai restaurant which Daniel told the "crowd" (12-15 people including 4 of us by my count) the security services must have had shut down to stop his vital info getting out there. Locals said it had been closed for at least a week though.

Then he proceeded to take us to a loud bar on Kingsway which the manager told us was free to reserve an area in. So essentially he charged everyone a £5 (and no doubt had a refund from Conway Hall as well) to sit in a pub.

Basically, this is about control of the UK "Truth" Movement, which actually makes the US movement look sane by comparison. Remember, David Shayler was originally the face of the Troof in Britain, until he smoked so much weed that he thought he was the son of god. Now Kollerstrom is probably the most famous Troofer over there, and Tony Gosling, who runs the UK Truth forum, is supporting him despite the fact that Kollerstrom seems even more deranged than Shayler.

Stefan (the Troofer who wrote about the event) is apparently a We Are Change London member. Obachike claims that We Are Change is a Ministry of Defense cointelpro plot.

The funny thing is that Stefan comes off as the sane one on that board. Kollerstrom (posts as Astro3 over there) is clearly unbalanced, and Obachike (Chi_of_Life) sounds like a bit of a thug.

And that's funny because over at the Truth Action forums there's a long thread going on about the CIT-heads again. And guess who's sticking up for the Pentacon? Yep, it's Stefan again. (Note: the thread starts off being about Kirk Sonnenfeld, the FEMA videographer, but eventually everybody agrees that's a dry hole, and the conversation turns around to Aldo and Craig).

And there Stefan comes off as the lunatic. Apparently CIT now claim to have 13 eyewitnesses who all corroborate the north of Citgo approach. Now this alone is very suspicious. CIT loves to do the old "What are the odds that they're all wrong?" But I would like to switch that around on them. What are the odds they're all "right"?

For the sake of argument, let's suppose that the north of Citgo claim is correct. We know that eyewitnesses are notoriously unreliable, but let's say that 70% of the eyewitnesses should remember things correctly and 30% would get details wrong. Based on those probabilities, what are the odds that 13 out of 13 eyewitnesses would validate the NOC approach?

Less than 1% (0.97% to be precise). Yep, the CIT-heads love to claim that because their witnesses all corroborate each other it strengthens their theory; in fact it reveals that there are almost certainly witnesses that did not back up the NOC approach that CIT has chosen to ignore. And over at JREF, some of the posters show that actually some of the 13 do not back up the NOC approach, so CIT apparently got their uniformity by lying about it.

Troofer Busted in Columbus (WI) 4th Parade

This is almost too sad. A 9-11 Troofer snuck his car (decorated with Inside Job and Infowars slogans) into the Columbus (Wisconsin) 4th of July Parade. The car had a loudspeaker blaring Alex Jones exhorting everybody to turn into the Incredible Hulk and rise up against the New World Order. The guy apparently made it through the end of the parade, but at that point things got ugly. Folks started yelling at the man and ripping the signs off his car, and he apparently hit a few of them with the car as he escaped. He's charged with 2nd degree reckless endangerment and disorderly conduct.

So I'm thinking typical clown troofer, right? Well, it turns out that the reality is quite a bit sadder than that. He has autism.

Because of his autism, ******* suffers from memory problems, cannot work and has no friends outside his family, his parents said.

He spends most of his time on the Internet, where he had gotten the messages, Judy ****** said.

It's tempting to laugh and say that aside from the autism, he sounds like a typical Troofer. But this is a sad story for his parents, and you know who's really to blame? Yep, old leatherlungs Alex himself has ruined yet another life.

I've blanked out the last name of the family in the post; I don't need to add to their woes.

Troofers Take It to DC

As a general principle, I suspect House and Senate staffers tune out the minute somebody says they have evidence of treason. Not because it's not a serious crime, but it's definitely one where the accusations far outnumber the actual convictions. And when the accusations are delivered by people who definitely look crazy, like Jeremy....

Kudos to Barney Frank, who has no time for this nonsense, and says, "Anything can get published." Frank is famously abrupt with people he considers idiots, and I think the goofballs were lucky that the elevator door was closing when they started in with the "Misprision of Treason" crap.

Check out the letter they included with the "peer-reviewed" paper:

Dear Honorable Congress Person,

We the People, in order to restore rule of law and accountability to our Republic, respectfully insist that you, as an elected representative, squarely face the facts concerning the events of September 11, 2001 and the implications thereof.

It is our moral and civic duty to entrust to you facts and scientific analyses in the form of peer-reviewed, published scientific papers that clearly and conclusively prove thousands of our fellow human beings and citizens were murdered in controlled and criminal demolitions on September 11, 2001.

Plausible deniability of these facts and evidence is no longer possible.

If you fail to acknowledge and act immediately and decisively on this evidence, then your inaction will constitute misprision of treason in the least, outright treason at worst. The time is now to fulfill your oath to the Constitution and stand tall in the face of the corruption of our Republic. We the People stand with you.

Pursuant to U.S. Code, Title 18, Part I, Chapter 115

§ 2381. Treason

Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

And § 2382. Misprision of Treason

Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States and having knowledge of the commission of any treason against them, conceals and does not, as soon as may be, disclose and make known the same to the President or to some judge of the United States, or to the governor or to some judge or justice of a particular State, is guilty of misprision of treason and shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than seven years, or both.

Sincerely,
WeAreChangeLA

Why do I get the feeling these dolts never read How To Win Friends and Influence People?

We Are Changing Into Capitalists

Here's the backup. The video claims that it's a Sub-S corporation, which raises some flags. Sub-S corps can't have more than 100 shareholders, and those shareholders have to be actual people, not corporations or LLCs. On the other hand Sub-S's can donate more than 10% of their taxable income to charities, and I'm sure that's the part that Luke is pushing. Still at the end of the day, a Sub-S corporation turns over all its profits to the shareholders. So any We Are Change Members would be well-advised to ask Luke who the shareholders of We Are Change, Inc., are.

Donn de Grand Pre

For a while now I have been wondering about the character who identifies himself as Colonel Donn de Grand Pre, an elderly man who claimed to have served in the OSS and that he had inside information regarding the "shoot down of United 93" and other things.

After witnessing people like Lauro Chavez, Guy Razer and Eric May, I was rather dubious about his wild claims. So I was rather interested to get an e-mail a couple of weeks ago from a reader, who had contacted Mary Schantag, of the POW Network to get a copy of his service records.

It appears that Grand Pre, did actually retire as a Colonel, but not in the active army, but from the National Guard, after a career mostly spent in Civil Affairs. Additionally he did serve during WWII, but nothing in his record indicates he ever went overseas, much less served in the OSS in Burma.

The sad thing is, like many people who exaggerate their military record, he actually didn't really need to. The guy did serve during the Korean War, where he earned a purple heart and bronze star. I guess he didn't consider that interesting enough, so he had to add in all these fantasies about hanging around with Chairmen of the Joint Chiefs.

Alex Jones Sues One of His Fans

This is indeed hilarious. Alex constantly begs people on the radio show to circulate his videos. He's been pushing for people to come up with a different type of YouTube site because he claims YouTube censors his videos. And what does he do when one of his fans (a former moderator at the Prison Planet Forums) takes him up on his request?

He calls in the lawyers.

LIE: Alex has always said on air PLEASE POST MY VIDEOS AND DOCUMENTARIES EVERYWHERE, make copies, give them away spread my message ..and that's what we were doing , Of course we had advertising space available on the site to try to help supplement the cost of the site and pay for the server bill (JUST AS YOUR VIDEOS ARE ALL OVER YOU TUBE AND THEY SELL ADVERTISING..WHATS THE DIFFERENCE??? YOU DONT GET ANY CUT FROM YOUTUBES ADVERTISING DO YA??), we have never even broken even and remain dipping into our savings to run the website, But thats not good enough ..It seems that Mr. and Mrs Jones Would begrudge us selling ad space in order to pay for the website because they were not getting a CUT of the money??

You mean to tell me it's all about the Benjamins with the Profit of Doom? I'm shocked, shocked I tell you!

I also love that his lawyer's name is Christopher Gonzales. I wonder if he's one of the Mexican-Americans who Alex claims is just waiting for the word before killing all us gringos.

Hat Tip: Patrick from Cincinnati in the comments.

New Video of WTC-7 from 9-11

This seems to be from the NY CBS affiliate; remember that the segment with the reporter moving around is taped, so ignore the time in the bottom right; that's when the segment aired. Unfortunately the lighting isn't the best so it's hard to figure out which buildings he's looking at, but at least part of it seems to be WTC-7.

Ryan Mackey to Debate Troofers Szamboti, Chandler

On Hardfire, hosted by Ron Wieck. You know that we'll have the video up as soon as it is available. As I mentioned in that thread, I am confident that we are sending the right man into the arena, armed with the facts. Break a leg, Ryan!

The Credulity of Some Reporters Beggars Belief

Check out this amazing article on a 9-11 fruitcake. Not so much for the idiocy he espouses, but for the credulity of the reporter, Dave Rasdal:

To be sure, this is a complicated matter that can’t be fully explained in a column like this or in a two-hour presentation/question/answer session I had with Russ. But, as you listen to Russ and see supporting data, you can’t help but shake your head. A lot of “facts” don’t add up, primary among them:

The speed of collapse. One video shows a building collapse in 8 seconds, which defies the laws of physics. Gravitational pull would require 9.2 seconds. The resistance of concrete and steel would at least double that.

The volume of debris. Sure, dust floated everywhere, indicating the buildings were pulverized. But that doesn’t explain how most of the concrete and steel from a 110-story building could become two or three inches of dust on the ground.

Yes, you can't help but shake your head at a reporter who somehow times "a building collapse" (which building is not specified) at 8 seconds. Of course, as I am getting doggone tired of pointing out, neither tower collapsed in 8 seconds (more like 15-18 seconds), and they did not come down faster than they would have due to gravity, as can be seen by the fact that the debris around them was falling faster than the buildings themselves. Indeed, aside from, say, rocket engines pushing the buildings down, how could they fall faster than gravity, even if we were to accept the Troofer nuts claims of controlled demoltion?

And the volume of debris question is Judy Wood "dustification" zaniness, although she at least has the sense to claim it was the most of the concrete turned to dust, not most of the steel. And indeed Judy comes up:

Wood, a former mechanical engineering professor at Clemson University, examined thousands of photographs and videos of the tragedy from every possible angle. She applied her knowledge to the physical evidence, letting that determine her findings, Russ says.

More moronic musings:

As Russ talks, you wonder along with him. If an airplane crashed into the tower with enough force to bring it down, why didn’t the plane come out the other side? How could the towers collapse so cleanly, spreading only minimal debris over nearby undamaged buildings? If underground fire contributed to the destruction, how could people like Gov. George Pataki walk on the debris without getting burned? Why did Hurricane Erin mysteriously turn away just before the collapse?

I cover these nutters every day, and that is the first I've heard Hurricane Erin brought up as part of the evidence. Why didn't the plane come out the other side? Small bits of it did, but it was largely broken up into small pieces by the impact with the building. How could Pataki walk on the debris without getting burned? Because the fires were underground, duh; there are literally dozens of reports of workers' boots melting from the heat. The towers did not collapse "so cleanly"; indeed many buildings in the area were either completely destroyed by the collapse or suffered major damage, including WTCs 3-7, World Financial Center 2&3, the Winter Garden, Deutsche Bank Building, St. Nicholas' Greek Orthodox Church, etc.

I guess the moral of the story is that the Troofers have gotten good enough at their nonsense that they can fool some particular gullible reporters. One would think he'd at least do some checking around.

Hat Tip: Rich in Iowa, in the comments. Great find!

Update: Check out this timeline by Gerst, if you have any doubts that this reporter should have been hearing "Cuckoo! Cuckoo!" every time Gerst opened his mouth.

But They Love America

Victronix (aka, Victoria Ashley, wife of Jim Hoffman) over at Truth Move, responds to this comment:

In other words, if Obama is Hitler, as some have very inappropriately suggested, aren't we all just a little bit as well.

Her response:

Indeedy. That's what being Amurican is all about . . .

The Paranoia That is Prison Planet

OK, not 9/11 specific, but this has to be one of the most bizarre examples of paranoid logic I have seen in a while. From Alex Jones' Prison Planet:

An earlier article written by Silas Allen, also posted on the News Tribune website, details a Missouri National Guard unit practicing basic convoy operations during a training exercise in the Black Hills of South Dakota on June 14. During the exercise, an “insurgent group” with “a reputation for harassing convoys with ambushes and improvised explosive devices,” attacks the Guard convoy. “The unit was also told to look out for civilians trying to approach the convoy on the battlefield. The civilians could be working with the insurgent group or could simply have a legitimate complaint,” Allen writes.

The two exercises serve as prime examples of an orchestrated attempt by the government to train soldiers to militarily confront domestic “militia” groups.

Oh yeah, because God knows none of our soldiers will ever be involved overseas in operations where they deal with insurgents using IEDs to attack convoys.

AE911 Truth Still Begging for Money

After their astounding success in San Francisco, in which they received less interest than one of those carpet cleaning booths at the state fair, they are now off to DC.

We must have an average of $35/month per member to realize our goals toward the awakening of the A/E profession and a real WTC investigation. Where do you fit into the picture? $10/mo? $100/mo? or more? Please find your giving level and claim it! Don’t keep us crawling toward the finish line of a real investigation when we can run in triumphantly and seize it. We travel every other weekend to cities across the US, Canada, Europe. Before this year is out, we will have traveled to Australia, New Zealand, and Japan for a 12-city AE911Truth speaking tour of these countries. The work never stops and, as you know, neither do we.

What is this "we"? I have been following the "truth" movement for longer than this group has even been around, and I can't name a single member of the group that has ever spoken in public other than Gage. And they claim the support of over 700 architects and engineers alone. At $35 a month that would be nearly $300,000 a year. Guess Rich likes flying first class.