Three Hour Radio Show on Loose Change & 9-11
Dr Mike Newcomb of the Phoenix Air America station dedicated a full show to the Loosers and Truthers yesterday. Unfortunately, their producer did not return my email requesting to be allowed on the show and I was unable to get through on the listener lines. I did manage to email the host on the cellphones versus Airfones issue, and he read my comments on the air, even mentioning Screw Loose Change.
You can download the MP3s of the show here. Sadly, Dr Mike, who had been a skeptic of Loose Change only a week or two ago, is now at least something of a convert to the "Truth" movement. This highlights the problem with Loose Change; it's slick and entertaining enough that it can convince intelligent people (and although I disagree with Dr Mike's politics, he's a smart guy). Obviously if he were to dig deeper with a skeptic's attitude, he'd pretty quickly realize that it's all a con job. But how many people are going to dedicate the time and effort?
During the second hour, Jason Bermas (one of the producers) appears, I believe about 20 minutes into the segment. My email gets read over the air during the third hour starting at about 27:28. That hour mostly features Stephen Jones, the BYU physicist, who claims that he hasn't seen Loose Change (hence no need to critique it).
posted by Pat @ 7:07 AM
30 comments
30 Comments:
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
I know this comment will not be welcomed here, but I make it for the same reason I make all my comments. I beieve I am offering the best evidence to represent the truth that I am capable of.
Those who don't want to acknowledge the truth about 9/11, namely that "something is rotten in Denmark", seem to mirror the thinking of those who have had a kind of cult-like devotion to George W. Bush. At every turn of Bush's incompetence and dissembling, there have been his defenders, from R. Limbaugh to C. Krautheimer, who have insisted his leadership is sound, and his actions based on the conservative agenda he was elected to implement.
Most Americans now see the sham of that contention about our President. How much longer can you keep on denying reality about the evidence that, at the very minimum, there has been a cover up of the true facts of 9/11?
It,
I have many points to address your comments. Only time to address one now.
My contention has never been that Jesse MacBeth was any particular animal, mineral, or vegatable.
My contention has been that if he is speaking about true event accurately, then this is damning evidence. The truth of his contentions about atrocities need not have any dependence on
a) whether he is who he say he is
b) whether he knows how he should dress
c) whether he's lying about other things
My point isn't that he is telling the truth, or even whether one should judge him credible.
My point is and has always been, that the supposed discrediting of him to the extent to claim that nothing his says could be true, is just the most inane logic possible.
I watched Malkin's presentaton on Hot Air. I went to the detailed statements included reference to one about govt. official statement he there has no record of his name matching the service he claims.
I don't want to be misunderstood on this. It's not now or have I ever supported the guy.
No matter what, whether he's lying or not, he needs to be arrested and prosecuted for war crimes (or whatever the military statutes are), or he needs to be arrested and prosecuted for sedition. It's one or the other. Both are serious crimes that should not be overlooked.
"The truth of his contentions about atrocities need not have any dependence on a) whether he is who he say he is..."
LOL
Yet another example of Fake but Accurate
BG, you've truly out-done yourself this time.
Please, do explain how his stories of all the atrocities he's commited could be true if he's never served a day in uniform in his entire life. I'd LOVE to hear this one.
Sorry Lt, better luck next time :)
Anyway, the clearest indication that MacBeth is not a soldier and never has been has nothing to do with his uniform, his stutter, or his appearance. The clearest indication that he's full of shit from start to finish is that the military hasn't taken any action against him. If he WERE a soldier, and he was lying about the "war crimes" he supposedly commited, he'd be up on charges right now for those lies. Or, if he were telling the truth about them, he'd be up on charges for murder and rape amongst other things, and would spend the rest of his life behind bars. But, being a civ, there's dick all that the army can do to him. If he gets charged it'll have to be by civ police.
That is idiotic. Then you would have no problem with me claiming that the World Trade Centers were not demolished, because I have 20 years experience in the demolitions industry, and I was there on September 11th and saw the towers collapse and in no way did their collapse resemble any of the hundreds of controlled demolitions that I have participated in.
The fact that I am not who I say I am has no bearing on that truth.
re: MacBeth
When anyone can prove definitively that this person on camera has not served in Iraq, I will agree with all that has been said here and elsewhere that he is a fake and there is no doubt that any of his speech should be given a second thought, other than the prosecutive for sedition as a private citizen.
The following, which I just now found, would close the case, if true:
found here: http://www.qando.net/details.aspx?Entry=3934
Real or "MacBeth"?
I am Jesse’s older sister. Let me tell you...I am finally glad someone has finally discovered he is a fraud.
My brother went to army boot camp but got kicked out after four weeks for an inability to adapt to military life and was sent to a mental hospital in Georgia.
We grew up in the Arizona foster care system. Our mother is schizophrenic, a drug addict, and very abusive. Jesse spent the majority of his childhood in mental hospitals.
He convinced me back in 2002 that he was sick from Hep C and in need of surgery. I took him in. When I discovered that he was faking and stealing from me, I asked him to leave. I drove him all they way back to Arizona (I was going to school in California) and by the time I got back he had managed to empty my bank account, my roommates bank account, and charge up my credit card.
He somehow convinced people in Pima, Arizona that we got shot in the back in Iraq and his story just took off from there.
My brother is mentally ill. I don’t know where my cute little baby brother went or how he got replaced by this scary monster. I don’t know how to help him, so I had to stop contact with him all together.
At least now, maybe he’ll be forced to get some help and get back on his medication.
It,
Wait a sec,
Here's my judgement,
Everything from the beginning of this has looked like a hoax, or a lie, or a stunt. If I were on a jury, with just evidence given I have I seen, I would convict (meaing beyond a reasonable doubt) of lying.
My point is that I don't think there is proof yet.
That is how conspiracy theorists work, all authority is equal.
A dozen career military officers are no more an expert on who is a Ranger, than a single peace activist in Seattle.
One hundred people who specifically describe seeing a plane hit the pentagon are no more authoritative than one witness who said "it sounded like a missile"
An MIT professor of structural engineering is no more an authority on a building collapse than a professor of philoshophy, or a janitor for that matter.
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So, given what you all say, rousseau, it, alex, (and I'm no long trying to argue against your contentions)
shouldn't a judge be approached to order it removed from the internet.
I realise it may be posted on the web site out of US jurisdiction, but we should control any US based website.
Shouldn't prosecuters be assigned to indict not only "MacBeth" but also the film production company the original website owners?
Can you imagine the uproar from the left if MacBeth gets charged with treason? I don't think the Bush administration has the balls to try it. Don't get me wrong, I'm ALL for it. While they're at it they should charge the New York Times for publishing information about a classified intelligence gathering program. It's about time this administration put it's foot down and said "ENOUGH!". I just don't think it's likely to happen.
I'm trying to nudge you a bit with the following comment:
Isn't it clear there was a conspiracy to put out false information?
Alex,
I'll looked up and posted a comment either yesterday or Tuesday about Federal Legal language that called the crime:
Sedition
It seemed to fit perfectly.
BG, that it's a lie is undoubted; that we should allow lies in our society as a legal matter is also undoubted. The idea is to debunk lies, not to put the liars in jail (with obvious exceptions for lying under oath, etc).
I don't want Dylan Avery to go to jail for lying in Loose Change; I just want folks to understand that he lied.
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Pat,
I don't think you are comparing apples to apples.
Here's the only logical reason I can imagine that it would be smart not to prosecute:
1) They know guy is mentally ill and will plead insanity or diminished capacity.
If this is true, they should announce as much, and make sure he gets treatment would should include incareration.
If I say:
I believe there have been war crimes committed by US troops in Iraq,
or
I believe the 9/11 Commission helped cover up what really happened on 911, it is 100% different from what MacBeth said in a way clearly with the intent to deceive.
Some of you who believe in the truth about Able Danger would actually have to agree with my second statement.
Rousseau said...
I agree almost 100% with your comments.
I don't mean this as a pot shot. Honest question,
If you are capable of this quality of rhetoric, why were you "spamming" yesterday. Did you really think that message was so critical to the overall point you beleive needs to be made, that it made sense to post it multiple times?
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Rousseau,
I'm not trying to debate you or compete with you. You seem like a bright person. Not saying others aren't bright here, just saying you are steping back and making sense apart from the whole 9/11 thing.
I do think I can make the case, that, since Loose Change, the movie, and Loose Change, the search phrase, is such a hot item that I think it makes sense to try to jump in that stream and present hopefully a few facts and comment to be there for those people who are honestly looking for help in trying to decide what they should make of it all.
If you criticize my ability toward actually hitting that target, I'll of course have to leave the possibility open that you are right: my efforts of sticking with enough facts and my comments are working at times to discredit even further the exact cause I believe is worthy.
Debunking,
I think I can share with you ample evidence of CD thru url's on the internet. Would you prefer I do that privately or should I post them here again, (as I have on other posts of this blog)
Debunking,
Since you aren't responding, and there's not way based your profile to verify anything about you,
you, sir or mam,
look to be a fraud.
debunking,
I went to the web site that you showed, and found the following beginning of a debunk about the molten steel:
Conspiracy sites like to bring up molten steel found 6 weeks after the buildings fell to suggest thermite must have created the effect. The explanation doesn't go into the amount of thermite needed because it would be an absurd amount. There is another explanation which is more plausible.
What you claim as an alternative explanation is preposterous.
Separately, by stiking down the explanation of thermite as being impossible, you prove nothing more than the idea that perhaps some other extremely exothermic material was used.
debunk911,
Ok, you may not be a fraud.
Possibly just mistaken. I find your narrative very fishy still.
debunk,
Do you have any association with the web side you pointed to, or
did ya just think it would be fun to have a blogger name that would match that name?
debunking,
I see your points. I'll stop implying ulterior movtives or criticizing. Just wanted to be clear....
I'm just coming at this from a "on the internet, no one knows you are a dog" kind of thing.
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