Saturday, May 13, 2006

The "It's Not a Democrat Or Republican Thing" Argument

We're getting a fair amount of that in the comments, and as I noted previously, somebody who certainly appears to be Jason Bermas even spews that line in the video of their trip to Ground Zero:

This is not a right or left issue. Okay? I'm not conservative or liberal.


And in some ways, what they say is true. It's not a right or a left issue, a conservative or liberal issue, a Republican or Democrat issue. Why? Because the overwhelming majority of all those groups reject the argument of the 9-11 "Truth" movement. So it's a fringe issue, and indeed a very far fringe issue. I've been looking for a major leftie blog that endorses the movie and haven't found one yet, or one on the right for that matter. I have found a fair number of zero-linked My Space blogs raving about it.

I'm sure that somebody somewhere on the far right wing praises this movie. Lew Rockwell? David Duke's probably on the fence until they get more Jews involved in the conspiracy. Those are the kinds of people on the fringe right I could see endorsing the movie.

17 Comments:

At 13 May, 2006 11:54, Blogger nesNYC said...

I'm sure that somebody somewhere on the far right wing praises this movie. Lew Rockwell? David Duke's probably on the fence until they get more Jews involved in the conspiracy. Those are the kinds of people on the fringe right I could see endorsing the movie.

Funny you mention the "Jews" as Loose Change fails to in a big way. I even think Avery might be Jewish himself, but not 100% sure about that. He blames "criminals" but also fails to mention the only people actually caught red handed complicit in the attacks were 5 Israeli intelligence agents. Not even Moussaui was connected to 9/11 until he was "convinced" to confess.

The 5 dancing Israelis however were caught with phony passports, thousands in cash, box cutters and Arab disguises. This story was widely circulated, in a controlled fasion in the US press. Even 20/20 did a piece on it.

The Five Dancing Israelis Arrested On 9-11

As for Duke and the rest of the fringe you mention, they’ve already come out on the record stating the US government was directly involved. Heck, I think Duke even when to Syria to sympathize with the Arabs oppressed by the Zionist supremacists.

 
At 13 May, 2006 12:12, Blogger roger_sq said...

In that case, welcome to the fringe, Pat and Jason!

It's not a Jewish/Arab thing either. To suggest a Jewish conspiracy is about as far fetched as implicating Iraq because the alleged terrorists were Arab. The race or creed (or political affiliation) of the perpetrators is not relevent, and it is flawed logic to assert that it must be.

The Loose Change forum has about 2,000 members, mostly supporters of 'some' government complicity. the majority of respondents to several polls taken by various media show a vast majority believe that as well.

Ariana Huffington's (whom I find a laughable excuse for a represntative on anything substantitive) blog endorsed the movie.

Incidentally, I know this is for the purposes of trashing Loose Change, arguably an easy target given the stretching of evidence and relative naivete of the young producers. If you would like to tackle a more thorough work on the matter, I'd direct you to Michael Ruppert's book "Crossing the Rubicon". Less than perfect, but might help you guys get a grasp on the big picture which you so obviously lack at the present time.

 
At 13 May, 2006 12:14, Blogger telescopemerc said...

He blames "criminals" but also fails to mention the only people actually caught red handed complicit in the attacks were 5 Israeli intelligence agents.

'Red handed'?

They were, according conspriacy websites 'dancing and laughing'. In fact, what was reported was that they were 'acting suspciously' (ie. filming and talking in a forign language) and were acting 'happy'. This is a far cry from planting explosives and hijacking airplanes.

Funny definition of 'red-handed'.

But hey, nothing like pointing fingers at the Jooooos, eh?

 
At 13 May, 2006 12:25, Blogger BG said...

Here's the bottom line. Giving this blog the benefit of the doubt, that your intentions are honorable (because there's no doubt you are horribly wrong, misguided, and encouraging ignorance with specious arguments), I just want to add the following based on one authenitic source that I haven't seen you mention.

You are getting everyone off the subject by talking about jews, conservatives, etc. etc. It's just distracting and meaningless. The topic at hand is what happened on 9/11.

Here's a link to Chapter 6 of Webster Tarpley's Book (9/11 Synthetic Terror).

I ask everyone to take some time to read this. If you really don't think there are legitimate questions after reading this, I would submit that there is not any amount of debate, discussion, reasoning, pleading that is going to talk any sense into your head.

 
At 13 May, 2006 12:53, Blogger nesNYC said...

'Red handed'?

Absolutely! You're selectively quoting there. According to Bergen NJ paper:

ABOUT eight hours after terrorists struck Manhattan's tallest skyscrapers, police in Bergen County detained five men who they said were found carrying maps linking them to the blasts.

- - and - -

However, sources close to the investigation said they found other evidence linking the men to the bombing plot.

"There are maps of the city in the car with certain places highlighted," the source said. "It looked like they're hooked in with this. It looked like they knew what was going to happen when they were at Liberty State Park."
Sources also said that bomb-sniffing dogs reacted as if they had detected explosives, although officers were unable to find anything. The FBI seized the van for further testing, authorities said.


Now read the WHOLE thing.

This fits the definition of "red handed." But like I said, the major news media covered this although not with all the facts and in an almost apologetic fashion.

 
At 13 May, 2006 13:10, Blogger telescopemerc said...

So the big connection is a bunch of maps, from an article a single day after the attack?

'Red Handed' means they were caught in the act of planting explosives or hijacking airplanes. A handful of maps and some overreacting dogs doesn't cut it

You might want to look up what 'red handed' means.

This is a classic case of quoting only part of what happened by using articles almost immediately after the event. I suppose you beleive a bomb went off near the state department, too? After all, it was reported the day of the attacks.

 
At 13 May, 2006 13:30, Blogger nesNYC said...

Excellent!

'Red Handed' means they were caught in the act of planting explosives or hijacking airplanes. A handful of maps and some overreacting dogs doesn't cut it

How about two vans? But going just from memory, there were stories all over that day of no less than 4 "white vans" being picked up. The one the Jersey police caught HAD to be published because there were too many whitnesses to the cheering and dancing Isralies. But the other vans stayed under the radar. Here's a piece from on that was stopped near the GW bridge:

Three arrested with van full of explosives

4:27:11 AM

Reports from New York are saying three people have been arrested with a van of explosives.

The van was stopped along the New Jersey turn-pike near the George Washington Bridge.

It was not clear why police stopped the van but when they did they found it was laden down with tonnes of explosives.

Source


So what really happened that makes me think "red handed?"

1. The Israeli "movers" cheered the 9-11 attacks to celebrate the successful accomplishment of the greatest spy operation ever pulled off in history.
2. One of them, or an accomplice, then calls a 9-1-1 police dispatcher to report Palestinian bomb-makers in a white van headed for the Holland Tunnel.

3. Having thus pre-framed the Palestinians with this phone call, the Israeli bombers then head for the George Washington Bridge instead, where they will drop off their time-bomb van and escape with Urban Moving accomplices.

4. But the police react very wisely and proactively by closing off ALL bridges and tunnels instead of just the Holland Tunnel. This move inadvertently foils the Israelis' misdirection play and leads to their own capture and 40 day torture.

5. To cover up this story, the U.S. Justice Department rounds up over 1000 Arabs for minor immigration violations and places them in New York area jails. The Israelis therefore become less conspicuous as the government and media can now claim that the Israelis were just immigration violators caught in the same dragnet as many other Arabs.

6. After several months, FBI and Justice Department "higher-ups" are able to gradually push aside the local FBI agents and free the Israelis quietly.

 
At 13 May, 2006 13:35, Blogger nesNYC said...

BTW, the Jerusalem Post also ran the story about the van with explosives but I cannot find a trace of that story now, not even in the Internet Archives.

 
At 13 May, 2006 18:56, Blogger telescopemerc said...

That is still not red-handed.

You are depending on 'breaking stories' from the day of the attack? Do you not remember how many incorrect stories there were that day? Bombs were reported exploding near the Justice Center, etc.

After that, all you have is speculation. Speculation is not evidence.

Beyond that, your story is just idiotic. Whatever Mossad or Isreal might gain from engineering the attack is completely and utterly imbalanced by the consequences if they were caught. The result of getting caught would mean the end of Isreal. Period. US aid goes away, Arabs move in. US applauds. That ends that. Why take such a risk? Even the worst action adventure novelist wouldn't come up with junk like that.

 
At 13 May, 2006 20:37, Blogger nesNYC said...

The result of getting caught would mean the end of Isreal. Period. US aid goes away, Arabs move in. US applauds. That ends that. Why take such a risk? Even the worst action adventure novelist wouldn't come up with junk like that.

I see you haven't the foggiest clue as to what Israel really is, why it was created and how it remains in the face of massive world opposition.

Not sure if you realize this but there are Jews that are staunchly against Israel and it's creation. But that wasn't always the case. The majority of Jews thought the idea of creating a "Jewish Homeland" in Palestine was ridicules until they were terrorize into accepting it after World War II. The Zionist had a hand in that too. Don't take my word for it, read what groups like the Neturei Karta have to say about "Israel."

Israel and Zionism was promoted by the same money powers that had control of the world in the last century. They saw they couldn't stem the tide of the original Zionist pioneers and decided to work from within that group so the eventual destruction of the Jews would come about. The real problem here is Zionism and what "Judeo/Christian" groups push that movement. The Christian (Satanists) like Robertson want to get as many Jews as they can in Palestine and create the 4th world war so that the revelation can happen that much faster. The deceived Jews think that by establishing their kingdom again, their messiah will come and rule over the world, from "Israel!"

That is the true meaning of it and why Israel had been caught red handed in other terror attacks throughout its history and nothing has happened. Here's a short but not at all complete list of "Israeli" false flag attacks:

1. King David Hotel
2. USS Liberty
3. Lavon Affair

Now, Israel ALWAYS does bad things but the US media is Zionist controlled so they ALWAYS make it look like Israel is a victim. You can logically claim that all those "suicide bombings" that happen over there are also false flags. The Israelis are expert at these kinds of operations and have been doing them for a long time, history proves me right on this.

So 9/11 is a continuum of this terror that is standard operation procedure for the Zionist regime. They will never get caught because they are part of the system that covers it up when they do. Just like the 5 Israeli Mossad agents were released after 9/11 so where the art student spying on military installations in the biggest spy operation ever by a foreign nations here in the US.

You also have to realize that the Israeli Lobby is very powerful in Washington and typically buys our so called leaders to give the Zionist regime what it wants.

Now, go here and read about what the Zionists want Israel to look like in the future and why the US has been suckered into fighting their wars for conquest.

 
At 13 May, 2006 20:45, Blogger nesNYC said...

After that, all you have is speculation. Speculation is not evidence.

There is no speculation. Israeli nationals where caught by police in connection with the events of 9/11. That's all part of the official record no matter how much you wish it not be so.

 
At 13 May, 2006 21:48, Blogger Realist06 said...

Lew Rockwell is "far right"?
Hahahahaha.
Labels fellas, you live by labels.

 
At 14 May, 2006 05:49, Blogger telescopemerc said...

There is no speculation. Israeli nationals where caught by police in connection with the events of 9/11. That's all part of the official record no matter how much you wish it not be so.

No, it isn't. Much as you might like it to be. There's no point in discussing this with you since I've made my points and there's no way I can convince a paranoid nutcase like you who finds Mossad under his bed.

 
At 14 May, 2006 07:29, Blogger JoanBasil said...

"Dancing Israelis" is the term of art. Put it in the Google search and you get 1,530,000 items.

I once saw the 2 9/11 Commission chairs, Hamilton and Kean on a C-SPAN call-in and a caller asked about these Israelis who were seen celebrating on a roof top. Thomas Kean replied that it was the first time he'd ever heard about that.

It was the subject of a 20/20 segment as well as other TV reports; it happened in New Jersey and Kean is a former governor of NJ; it was big in the Jersey press; Kean was president of a University less than 25 miles from where it happened.

Either Kean was lying or this is a man who shouldn't have been allowed near the 9/11 commission because he just wasn't very interested in the events of that day. No wonder they did such a poor job with that man as Chair of the Commission.

 
At 14 May, 2006 16:34, Blogger Realist06 said...

Face it screwloosers- you're outnumbered and outgunned even on your own blog.

But by all means keep this blog alive! It not only brings more people to view LC, but it proves post after post on how important it is that we get the Truth out and continue to ask the important questions that the Kean Commission left out.

 
At 18 May, 2006 22:09, Blogger shawn said...

"(because there's no doubt you are horribly wrong, misguided, and encouraging ignorance with specious arguments)"

Irony, much?

Man, I should've got As on all those papers in school I bullshitted instead of Cs, since it's "wrong" to use ACTUAL FACTS to back up your case. Don't breed please.

"Lew Rockwell is "far right"?
Hahahahaha.
Labels fellas, you live by labels."

Libertarianism is a far-right ideology (the farther right you go, the more individuality; the farther the left, the larger community and/or state apparatus). I have nothing against it, as I'm practically one myself, but God, I love being smarter than people who have a decade on me.

And nesnyc, STOP BEING AN IDIOT. Zionist supremacists? Odd that Arabs enjoy more rights and freedoms in Israel than in any other country in the Middle East. Odd, that Syria had, until very recently, controlled Lebanon. They're REALLY being oppressed by a tiny sliver of land surrounded by folks who want to kill them because of their religion. Fucking idiot.

 
At 06 June, 2006 13:53, Blogger ~ FluxRostrum said...

I know you are But I'm an Anarchist.

 

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