Monday, March 26, 2007

The Blueprint Caper

I have to chuckle a bit at this one. Dylan Avery got copies of the blueprints to the World Trade Center (apparently Tower One only), and announced it by asking somebody to torrent and seed it, so folks could download it.

Dylan was just a tad giddy:

This is like Christmas, Thanksgiving, Birthdays and Valentine's Day wrapped into one.

It's something we've all wanted for a very, very long time...

As someone who has actually worked with blueprints professionally, I can tell you that the notion that the Loosers are going to discover some "smoking gun" is hilarious. Perhaps an inset which reads "place thermite auto-destruct mechanism here"?

Update: Batmanchester (I can't tell you how annoying that name is) claims to have found something:

The NIST report was a lie. Between 4 of us, we scoured over the prints, noting the fireproofing they said wasn't there, the thickness of the steel columns, the steel grid, compared it to Poopular Mechanics report, etc.

I'm going to take a wild guess here and assume that these guys don't know the difference between plans and specs, blueprints and as-built drawings.

Update: Alex points out in the comments that the AutoCad files include both temporary (i.e., useless) files and files that analyze the damage caused by the impacts of the planes. No doubt it is the latter that has them excited; now they can claim that they have "proof" that the towers could not have come down. Of course the analysis of the damage is necessarily incomplete; they didn't have a structural engineer up there checking what happened. But you know any difference between what NIST estimated will become the next piece of evidence.

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At 26 March, 2007 11:48, Blogger texasjack said...

Avery sure does like to manufacture feeding frenzies. It is just hilarious to witness the hysteria over and over again, then the big let down. But they keep getting duped with the promises of a smoking gun described as "like Christmas, Thanksgiving, Birthdays and Valentine's Day wrapped into one." What a joke.

At 26 March, 2007 11:55, Blogger Triterope said...

The Tim Allen line was funny.

At 26 March, 2007 12:21, Blogger Tom said...

I had a chuckle at one of the JREF comments:

"I remember getting a .ZIP file from the, er, Dylan Avery, telling me that they were not sure they were gonna be able to download the floor plans, and I said, "We've had such frivilous downloading of the torrent file, maybe the smartest thing to do is pull it. And Enigma made that decision to pull and we watched the torrent download collapse."

Chuckle chuckle chuckle.

At 26 March, 2007 12:38, Blogger Manny said...

It is just hilarious to witness the hysteria over and over again, then the big let down.

You know, I used to think it would have been nice to give hope to the idiots of the world by, just once before he died, having Charles Schultz make Charlie Brown refuse to try to kick Lucy's damn football. But now I know it wouldn't have been realistic.

At 26 March, 2007 12:58, Blogger CHF said...

So Dylan: do your blueprints show the location of the demolition charges?

No? Aw shucks!

I guess Christmas is gonna be on December 25th after all.

At 26 March, 2007 13:00, Blogger 911_truthiness said...

I like this one from "shure"




At 26 March, 2007 13:10, Blogger shawn said...

How friggin' big a file full of blueprints that you need to torrent it?

At 26 March, 2007 13:20, Blogger 911_truthiness said...

Reggie_perrin said:
I think i'm about to ejaculate.....

At 26 March, 2007 13:22, Blogger tym said...

"The rebels have obtained a complete technical readout of this station. If they analyze the plans, it is possible, however, unlikely, a weakness could be discovered!"

At 26 March, 2007 13:33, Blogger James B. said...

By any chance did Avery get these plans from an R2 unit?

At 26 March, 2007 13:36, Blogger roger_sq said...

notice how the NWO is launching the invasion of Iran just as the 911 OS completely unravels?

These fools do not realize they cannot stop the beast, they can only enrage it.

At 26 March, 2007 13:37, Blogger roger_sq said...

Dylan got the blueprints the same way he gets his beer money. He sucked cock for them.

At 26 March, 2007 13:43, Blogger Richard said...

Maybe now they will finally figure out that its a tube in a tube design.

At 26 March, 2007 13:50, Blogger Triterope said...

So the whole 9-11 story is unraveling, all because Dylan Avery sucked cock to get the secret document?

What is this, Team America: World Police?

At 26 March, 2007 14:02, Blogger CHF said...

notice how the NWO is launching the invasion of Iran just as the 911 OS completely unravels? so?

At 26 March, 2007 14:17, Blogger James B. said...

No, I spoke with our superiors in Beijing. The invasion of Iran is off, although Moldova is toast...

At 26 March, 2007 14:56, Blogger Alex said...

How friggin' big a file full of blueprints that you need to torrent it?

Depends on the detail, but I'd be surprised if it was any less than 10 megabytes per floor. Multiply that by the height of the WTC...and yeah, it's probably pretty damn big. Ofcourse, it depends on the format they used to encode it. As JPG's, or a PDF, it'd be huge. As properly encoded GIF's they'd be a lot smaller. Idealy you'd want to store them in a vector-graphic file format, but then you'd basically have to input them manually, and chances are these were just put through a scanner.

At 26 March, 2007 15:32, Blogger mbats said...

Depending on when these files are from, they could be anything from scans of actual blueprints (a true throwback by today's standards) and very large; or they could be vector-oriented files given to new/remodeling tenants as backgrounds for buildouts, and relatively small. 600 Megs believeable - I just downloaded 20 zipped megs of drawings and specs for a one-story, 3000 sq. ft. restaurant today. I'd be more concerned about whether or not they have the full set or drawings, or just one discipline or another. Architectural drawings don't call out steel sizes, structural drawings don't call out the fireproofing, electrical drawings would tell them nothing pertinent, etc.

At 26 March, 2007 16:09, Blogger Alex said...

I just found out that they're TIFF images, which explains the size (600 megs). Most likely they're just scanned blueprints. I'll have them downloaded in about 45 minutes, and then I'll post an update.

At 26 March, 2007 17:30, Blogger Newtons Bit said...

If it's just scans of the original CD's, I doubt they'll be able to read them.

At 26 March, 2007 17:35, Blogger Alex said...

Interesting. The package has a bunch of TIFF's, but there's also AutoCAD DXF and DWG files. I don't have autocad on this machine, so I can't view those right now. The whole package is actually 1.3 Gigabytes in size - it's the zip file that's 600 megs.

At 26 March, 2007 18:22, Blogger Alex said...

Heh. You guys should get a kick out of this. Here is the contents of the directory which holds all of the AutoCAD files:

634,278 footprints.dxf
5,301 HPLASER.ctb
55,664,955 save.$$$

1,550,707 topprints.dxf
17,221,186 wtc1.dwg
70,985,142 wtc1_2000.dxf
17,276,785 wtc2.dwg
71,124,834 wtc2s.dxf

The first column is file size, second column is filename. Pay particular attention to the bits which I bolded.

Those of you who have used autocad before are probably giggling by this point. For the benefit of the rest of you, I will explain: The two highlighted files are just temporary files which contain no useful information whatsoever. In other words, the twoofers are passing around 250 megabytes of junk data.

That's funny enough on it's own, but what does that tell us about the person who supplied them with this data in the first place? It seems to me that the guy really had no clue WHAT he was giving them - he probably accidentally stumbled across these files, freaked out, and just grabbed anything that looked like it might be useful. Yet another example of clueless laymen trying to pretend that they know what they're doing.

As for the rest of the data, the AutoCad files are just 2 dimensional profile views of the two towers, and they actually show the impact damage, so they were clearly created after 9/11. The TIFF files are scans of various schematics and documents, and they're very difficult to read. I don't know what the twoofers expect to get out of all this, but I have a feeling that 99.9% of them will take one glance at this data, have a brainfart, delete the files and never look back. The other 0.1% will simply pretend they know what they're talking about, and claim that these blueprints are solid evidence of space gremlin demolition.

At 27 March, 2007 03:55, Blogger Jay said...

The NIST report was a lie. Between 4 of us, we scoured over the prints, noting the fireproofing they said wasn't there

I guess they never actually checked the NIST report.

At 27 March, 2007 06:24, Blogger Stevew said...

Thats very interesting Alex
In 67-69 when the plans would have been done most company's were useing bluelines not blueprints.
Blueprints were a big pain and the blueline process was very simple.
I first used bluelines in 63 at a small company. I first encountered ACAD2 or 3 in the mid 70's so what ever these are were probably done at a later date and probably not the originals.

There were several pgms on the construction of the towers and I don't recall seeing any blueprints, what I saw looked like bluelines. Copying bluelines is difficult because blue does not copy very well

At 27 March, 2007 07:38, Blogger Swing Dangler said...

So did a JREFer make that file available or what?

At 27 March, 2007 09:06, Blogger Jay said...

Well i downloaded the file and the original drawings are scanned in. They are not as-built drawings as far as i can see from those drawings. Theres several pipe and ventilation shafts running through the core as far as i can see now. Even escalators running from 78th to 79th floor and 44th to 45th floor(i can't say which tower, but it looks like both towers had those). So was really worth the download for me.

At 27 March, 2007 09:39, Blogger Jay said...

Here is a filename also in th ezip file, which is called "flxpov.TowerB.MV.18" Does anyone know what program i can use to look at that, because those files are huge.

At 27 March, 2007 10:02, Blogger Alex said...

Yeah those seem to be pov-ray files. As far as I can tell, they're simulations of the collapse. I can't seem to load them, though, I don't think my computer is powerful enough.

At 27 March, 2007 10:14, Blogger Stevew said...

Scanning would explain the Tiff's, I am curious about the DWG, DXF as well as were they blueprints or bluelines.

At 27 March, 2007 10:17, Blogger Jay said...

The dwg files are side views of the WTC with the damage, same as with the DXF files

At 27 March, 2007 10:21, Blogger Stevew said...

Done after 911

At 27 March, 2007 10:25, Blogger Jay said...

Jup, all the tiffs are the original design drawings.

At 27 March, 2007 10:31, Blogger Stevew said...

I wonder if these were the final, built to prints? They orginally were to be around 80-90 stories but late in the design changes were made to make them 110 stories. Were they bluelines or blueprints?

At 27 March, 2007 10:47, Blogger Jay said...

110 stories, with the antenna. I think they are bluelines as far as i can see.

All drawings are before 1970.

At 27 March, 2007 10:57, Blogger Jay said...

The core is filled with duct shafs and pipe shafts, so it really is no wonder the airplane fuel made it all the way to the sublevels tbh.

At 27 March, 2007 11:15, Blogger Stevew said...

Thanks Jay
It will be interesting what toofers come up with, they never mention the antenna that was huge and had to weigh many ton's

At 27 March, 2007 11:44, Blogger Jay said...

Thats what the hat truss was for, accoriding to NIST.

At 27 March, 2007 11:49, Blogger Alex said...

At 27 March, 2007 10:17, Jay said...

The dwg files are side views of the WTC with the damage, same as with the DXF files

At 27 March, 2007 10:21, Stevew said...

Done after 911

Isn't that what I said? :p

At 27 March, 2007 12:27, Blogger Stevew said...

Just reafirming Alex

At 28 March, 2007 17:21, Blogger Swing Dangler said...

The core is filled with duct shafs and pipe shafts, so it really is no wonder the airplane fuel made it all the way to the sublevels tbh.

No it didn't. Those were explosive devices going off. You think fire laden jet fuel is going to blow up concrete walls, several tons worth of machinery, blow ceramic tiles off the wall, twist metal doors, without leaving black smoke soot, and burning fires in the sublevels all without firefighting operations to put it out????
No burning jet fuel doesn't produce white smoke and remind survivors of the 1993 truck bombing.
Face it, the terrorists use sub-level explosive devices to assist in the destruction of the towers. has the scans of the prints up btw.

At 28 March, 2007 17:51, Blogger Triterope said...

You think fire laden jet fuel is going to blow ceramic tiles off the wall????

Isn't he great, folks? Let's give him a big hand.

At 28 March, 2007 18:12, Blogger Alex said...

Yep, he's something alright.

At 29 March, 2007 06:27, Blogger Stevew said...

FAE explosives can cause a lot of damage

At 29 March, 2007 09:55, Blogger Jay said...

No it didn't. Those were explosive devices going off. You think fire laden jet fuel is going to blow up concrete walls

Which concrete walls are you talking about?

Fire in elevator shaft.

We finally set up -- prior to this I believe it was the west side of the core of the building there were elevators. Someone had come to me and said that there were people trapped in one of those elevators. So I ran around the corner, and the hoist way doors were open, but the elevator car was only showing about two feet at the top of the door. You could see all the legs of the people that were in the elevator. I would guess there were about eight people in the elevator. The elevator pit was on fire with the jet fuel. People were screaming in the elevator. They were getting smoked and cooked. There weren't a lot of firemen there at the time. I grabbed some of the Port Authority employees and asked them where the fire extinguishers were and told them to get as many fire extinguishers as they could so we could try and fight this fire. As they were doing that, firemen started showing up, and I started asking them to get big cans, let's try to put this fire out.

At 29 March, 2007 19:34, Blogger Swing Dangler said...

Concrete Walls-Sub level C

Jay, from this:

A. Employees of WTC-North Tower order of event:
1.Mike Pecoraro, Stationary Engineer and unname Co-Worker
a) See'lights flicker, the Asst. Engineer reports to him hearing a large explosion,

b)Sees white smoke, and reports the smell of kerosene.

c)The smell he thought coming from perhaps a burning car in the parking garage above them.

d)Kerosene smell, not a kerosene fire. Kerosene does not produce white smoke to my knowledge.

e)Damage after the sound of an explosion: When the two arrived at the C level, they found the machine shop gone.

"There was nothing there but rubble, "Mike said. "We're talking about a 50 ton hydraulic press ? gone!"

f)A machine shot and a 50 ton press is gone.

e)Location of damage-C-level

f) The two made their way to the parking garage, but found that it, too, was gone. "There were no walls, there was rubble on the floor, and you can't see anything" he said.

g)Parking garage and walls are gone.

h)As they ascended to the B Level they were astonished to see a steel and concrete fire door that weighed about 300 pounds, wrinkled up "like a piece of aluminum foil" and lying on the floor.

i)Comments, "They got us again referring to the WTC 93 bombing. He saw similiar things after that bombing.

j)He was convinced a bomb had went off in the building.

k)See's two vicitms, badly burned an injured.

l)No reports of black soot in the lobby

Brief summary of experience: explosive sound heard, followed by white smoke with massive damage on multiple floors, and burned and injured victims.

At 29 March, 2007 19:38, Blogger Swing Dangler said...

Jay Good point on the fuel burning. Apparently not much as they were getting fire extinguishers to put it out. Not the ammount that would blow up walls and a 50 ton press, however. What level was this burning substance on?

At 29 March, 2007 21:53, Blogger Jay said...

f)A machine shot and a 50 ton press is gone.

I guess u never worked with an hydraulic press. The press itself does not weigh 50 tons, it can produce a pressure of 50 tons. So it might only weigh a few 100 kilos.

At 29 March, 2007 21:57, Blogger Jay said...

They were in the lobby when they saw the fire in the elevator pit.

At 29 March, 2007 22:18, Blogger Jay said...

And you keep forgetting that the building collapsed top first, so why did they blow up the basement?

The cores stood longer then the rest of the building after the point of collapse. Most of the survivors were found inside the cores in the stairwells. So why blow up the basement?

You also said they smelled kerosine. I'm guessing thats from the airplanes.

I know you want to believe they blew up the basement SD, but to what use did they do it?

At 30 March, 2007 09:43, Blogger Stevew said...

The buildings moved some 10' or so, coupled with the explosion fron the initial hit, could have tossed a few things around. I live in EQ country and was 1 mi from the epicenter of the NR quake, we did not move 10' but everything standing was tossed to the floor. I know the forces are different but a rapid 10' shift on a building that size could have moved all sorts of things.

At 02 April, 2007 00:20, Blogger Henry62 said...

I write You from Italy.
I studied WTC collapse and I succeed in finding original construction drawing of WTC1.
I published an article (in Italian, but if You want I can translate it in English) about blueprint of North Tower and Nist report.

You can find my analysis here:

Thanks and bye,


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