Islamists and Truthers Converge in Canada
A group of Islamists held a conference in Ontario, and who should show up, but the truthers.
In his speech, Mr. Bangash claimed the "Israeli-owned" International Consultants on Targeted Security runs security at Amsterdam airport, and therefore "the Israelis are in control of security," and they allowed the alleged underwear bomber, Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, to board a Detroit-bound plane.
The company, on its website, states it is "not connected in any way" to security at Amsterdam Schiphol Airport.
An Iranian propaganda video, set to inspirational music, was a rapid-fire montage of still photos and videos, with militaristic and industrial themes, including footage of scientists at work, and a diagram of atoms labelled U238, the common naturally occurring kind of uranium; and U235, the fissile kind used in bombs.
The female narrator spoke about Iran's free elections, equality of women, and its "successful approach to the nuclear issue."
The keynote speaker, given the absences, was Michael Keefer, a professor of literary theory at the University of Guelph, who said that all mainstream news media is "systematically fake" because "news editors have internalized the values of their advertisers." He described 9/11 as a "planned demolition" run by Americans, and the Toronto 18 bomb plot, which led to convictions and guilty pleas, as a "police frame-up" over "nothing of significance."
I suppose I shouldn't say "show up" since Keefer, a long time truther, was the keynote speaker. Maybe he can hang out with Kevin Barrett and share jihadist stories?
posted by James B. @ 9:31 PM
88 comments
88 Comments:
So...how many twoofers besides Keefer?
Are you desperate?
The presence of kookloon ultra-nationalists drives neutrals into the hands of the terrorist apologists and the presence of terrorists apologists drives other neutrals into the hands of kookloon ultra-nationalists.
This causes a false dichotomy. I despise both.
So...how many twoofers besides Keefer?
Given how popular "truth" conspiracy theories are with Muslims, I'd say it's likely that there were many "truthers" there.
However, if you'd like the limit the definition of "truther" to "angry white guys who can't get laid", then it was probably 1.
The presence of kookloon ultra-nationalists drives neutrals into the hands of the terrorist apologists and the presence of terrorists apologists drives other neutrals into the hands of kookloon ultra-nationalists.
Can someone fluent in Retard please translate this into English?
Given how popular "truth" conspiracy theories are with Muslims, I'd say it's likely that there were many "truthers" there.
Guns are also popular with criminals. Does that mean guns are bad? McCarthyist ploy rejected.
However, if you'd like the limit the definition of "truther" to "angry white guys who can't get laid", then it was probably 1.
Somehow I think you are a lonely nerdish fat guy in some New York apartment who wishes his worst problems upon his adversaries. I'm sorry for you. Maybe a dating site can help you out.
Can someone fluent in Retard please translate this into English?
Just urge your doctors to move you up the list for a brain transplant. All will be fine soon.
<3
New Yorker writes, "...'The presence of kookloon ultra-nationalists drives neutrals into the hands of the terrorist apologists and the presence of terrorists apologists drives other neutrals into the hands of kookloon ultra-nationalists'.
"Can someone fluent in Retard please translate this into English?"
I'm pretty sure it means that The Raging Diaper is working overtime to convert terrorist apologizing "9/11 truthers" into respectable citizens.
%^)
Is it working yet?
I'm pretty sure it means that The Raging Diaper is working overtime to convert terrorist apologizing "9/11 truthers" into respectable citizens.
%^)
Is it working yet?
I have a better chance at converting those greaseballs than I have at converting the likes of you, GayTardBill
MEDIA ALERT
PRESS CONFERENCE:
1,000 Architects and Engineers Call for New 9/11 Investigation
Cite Evidence of Explosive Demolition at WTC
When: Friday, February 19th, 2010
Time & Where:
8:30 am: Office of the Honorable Ed Perlmutter, 12600 West Colfax Avenue, Suite B-400, Lakewood, CO
9:30 am: Office of the Honorable Diana DeGette, 600 Grant St., Suite 202, Denver, CO
10.00 am: Office of the Honorable Jared Polis, 1200 East 78th Avenue, Suite 105, Thornton, CO
12:00 noon: Office of Senator Michael F. Bennet, 2300 15th St., Suite 450, Denver, CO
2:00 pm: Office of the Honorable Mike Coffman, 9220 Kimmer Drive, Suite 220, Lone Tree, CO
Who: Representatives of AE911Truth and Richard Gage, AIA, SF Bay Area architect and founder of the non-profit Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth, Inc. (AE911Truth) will announce that more than 1,000 architects and engineers in dozens of countries now support the call for a new independent investigation into the destruction of the Twin Towers and Building 7 at the World Trade Center on September 11, 2001.
Signers of the Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth Petition will discuss the organization’s startling findings, based on examination of the forensic evidence, videos and eye witness testimony omitted from official reports, such as the free-fall collapse of the 47 story WTC building 7 into its own footprint and the discovery of advanced explosive nano-thermitic material found in the WTC dust samples. The implications of these findings have the potential of profound impact on the Khalid Sheikh Mohammed trial. The focus of this press conference will be to detail the scientific concerns of these building and technical professionals whose findings reveal that all three skyscrapers were destroyed by explosive controlled demolition – not by jet plane impacts and fires. AE911Truth is also calling for a grand jury investigation of Shyam Sunder, NIST Lead Investigator and John Gross, NIST Co-Project Leader (National Institute for Standards and Technology). The Petition will be provided to the offices of every congressional representative on the same date - February 19th.
This press conference will be hosted concurrently in cities throughout the country including San Francisco, Los Angeles, Las Vegas, Seattle, Portland, Chicago, Austin, Dallas, Madison, Dover, NH, Tulsa, Tucson, Boston, Alexandria, VA (DC), Tampa, Temple Terrace, FL, Denver, Newark; and internationally in Ontario, Vancouver, Brussels, Denmark, Sydney, and Wellington, NZ. The SF press conference will be accessible to media (audio and video) via webinar at www.ae911truth.org. at 11:00am PST on Friday Feb 19, 2010.
For additional information on the five local events contact:__Frances Shure, franshure@estreet.com, 303-778-7511 home/office, 303-909-2053 cell. To arrange print/broadcast interviews with Richard Gage, AIA, founder of AE911Truth please contact Tania Torres at Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth: 510-292-4710, or by email 1000@ae911truth.org .
Hey Fran - The state of Colorado has a bone to pick with you.
http://www.sos.state.co.us/biz/BusinessEntityHistory.do?quitButtonDestination=BusinessEntityDetail&pi1=1&nameTyp=ENT&entityId2=20011208590&masterFileId=20011208590&srchTyp=ENTITY
ID Number: 20011208590
Name: FRANCES SHURE DESIGNS, INC.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Registered Agent: FRANCES T SHURE
Registered Agent Street Address: 1841 S SHERMAN ST, DENVER, CO 80210, United States
Registered Agent Mailing Address:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Principal Street Address: 1841 S SHERMAN ST, DENVER, CO 80210 , United States
Principal Mailing Address:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Status: Noncompliant
Form: Corporation
Jurisdiction: Colorado
Formation Date: 10/30/2001
Term of Duration: Perpetual
Annual Report Month: October
"1,000 Architects and Engineers Call for New 9/11 Investigation"
Kind of like a 1000 or so scientist calling for the teaching of Intelligent Design in schools. Never mind the vast majority of fellow scientist see their opinions as completely wrong.
The consensus of opinion among the best structural engineers in the field all agree. The WTC was NOT a controlled demolition. You know... guys who ACTUALLY make a living designee multi story buildings? Not retired guys who designed row houses or decks, You know REAL professionals.
Sure you have a 1000 of the very lower rung of pseudo professional Architects and Engineers, a drop in the bucket and far from the best. Some of them out and out kooks. Yeah, those are the guys you want to take advice from.
Landscape Designer
Frances Shure Designs, Inc.
Let not forget all the Landscape designers who thing the towers were a controlled demolition. Be sure to see their peer reviewed paper on how "High Explosive Nano Mulch" was used.
Guns are also popular with criminals. Does that mean guns are bad? McCarthyist ploy rejected.
This is another one that needs translating too. It would appear that you're comparing Muslims to criminals in your boneheaded analogy. No, I don't have such a negative opinion of most Muslims. I do have a negative opinion of the frustrated dateless losers who make up the "truth" movement.
Speaking of which...
Somehow I think you are a lonely nerdish fat guy in some New York apartment who wishes his worst problems upon his adversaries. I'm sorry for you. Maybe a dating site can help you out.
I guess I'm pretty close to hitting home and it's stinging Roid Rage.
I think Christopher Hitchens once described a fascist movement as a bunch of dateless, angry young men who are given guns and told that they are special. I guess the only ingredient missing from the "truth" movement is someone telling them they're special.
GayTardBill
Yet another thing "truthers" and fascists have in common: raging homophobia.
Anchored precariously on the poop deck of the USS Debunker Cult,whiny NY,er is troubled by the personal insults and general nastiness of the bilious circle jerk! You gotta love the cement heads here at Far Right Imperialist nutjob territory.Onward Christian Soldiers!!
Free KSM!
"the USS Debunker Cult"
Blather.
Rinse.
Repeat.
Debunker Cult?
I'm still waiting for my matching black Nikes.
Also, once again the troofers boil it all down to the Jooos did it.
Stupidy is an inside job.
Also, having a model railroad doen't mean that you can call yourself an engineer.
The implications of these findings have the potential of profound impact on the Khalid Sheikh Mohammed trial.
Yeah, I am sure they will. KSM will cry out in joy, "Wait, so I didn't do it?"
Ah the Islamic militant! I'd say the only thing worse are westerners who wish they were Islamic militants.
MEDIA ALERT
PRESS CONFERENCE:
Oh goody, you know what this means:
More youtube videos of twoof losers following elected officials with these types of claims
"Hi, I'm Boris Epstein and I have an associates degree in asswiping from Moscow State Community College. I have a peer-reviewed paper that proves the World Trade Center was brought down by explosives...."
The presence of kookloon ultra-nationalists drives neutrals into the hands of the terrorist apologists and the presence of terrorists apologists drives other neutrals into the hands of kookloon ultra-nationalists.
Polarization is hardly a new phenomenon but there are more than two sides to this. You're oversimplifying Western society. The majority of people, especially on our coasts and in Europe, despise the Jihadists and at the same time acknowledge that some of our policies do not help the situation.
The loudest voices however, are always the most extreme ones. Seriously man, you need to get out more! America isn't populated by Ann Coulter clones and Fox News isn't American public opinion.
As far as our media go contrary to what these guys in Canada are saying, (aside from Fox News) everyone goes out of their way to under-emphasize the role of Islam in Islamic Terrorism trotting out the usual explanations of poverty and oppression.
Because most media heads and writers are secular, perhaps it is impossible for them to understand that yes, religion can motivate people to do extraordinary things, both good and bad.
I'd say the most absurd example of this was the Fort Hood shooting. I almost pulled over from laughing when NPR reported, a few days after the incident that "The FBI is still searching for a motive in the incident." As if it wasn't painfully obvious what had happened.
The guy had become radicalized and realized he was fighting for the wrong (in his mind) side and flipped. Clearly his religious identity played a role in this.
I'll add the perfunctory caveat that most American Muslim are proud Americans, but there will always be some who put their ancestral ethno-religious identity before their American one.
It's little different than the Americans of German ancestry who sympathized with the Kaiser in WWI or the Fuhrer in WWII.
The issue of identity is very complicated in the US.
As usual thanks for letting me ramble aimlessly!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8521246.stm
Don't you love real conspiracies? They're so much cooler!
There's nothing quite like a good who-dun-it!
My, my.
Read the Raging Roidster's outburst at the beginning, and then the response from NoIdentity.
Chalk and cheese.
Memo to RR: Muslims are those that follow Islam, Islamists are those who believe that their religion provides the basis for politics, radical Islamists believe in establishing a caliphate by force. Is that clear enough?
Incidentally, it looks like Arseholie's up to his old tricks again. 'ARealWar-Dodger' is back online:
https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=27396589&postID=7095556393411908018&page=1&token=1266494177716_AIe9_BHKAIQDf65AdLSP63Ny_KkWD0V3IFZsVKBLJMk9_rVLbH7V0j9TEmeV7XI43WPeXa1hv9MmOIo3AzL1M1Jdc76omNtEnxMHW_rvJxPc-CGCmmgWKcwhjTWc0jzvp0WIHYB_rAN_AnJd8IsbtUeXLzM7oLWI5gYXmtTfdMnvychtSC7gBvRee5ZH7goU6QCHrTdCTfv1DQcqd21-gQXlbe0WMY38XjgNdeY4LS-H46w9L-gcVQ0
This is another one that needs translating too. It would appear that you're comparing Muslims to criminals in your boneheaded analogy. No, I don't have such a negative opinion of most Muslims. I do have a negative opinion of the frustrated dateless losers who make up the "truth" movement.
Speaking of which...
Dripping with frustration! Just post your hideous photograph and your contact information on a dating site already, blubber butt. I'm sure there's a desperate dog-faced doodlestain out there who would like to date your sorry, lonely, uglyass self. Do you have money?
I guess I'm pretty close to hitting home and it's stinging Roid Rage.
I think Christopher Hitchens once described a fascist movement as a bunch of dateless, angry young men who are given guns and told that they are special. I guess the only ingredient missing from the "truth" movement is someone telling them they're special.
Ah Christopher Hitchens...the wishy-washy megalomaniac who can't decide which frivolous hyped mainstream nonsense he's going to defend with his overrated drunken diatribes this time. Is he a role model of yours?
"Yet another thing "truthers" and fascists have in common: raging homophobia."
I guess I'm pretty close to hitting home and it's stinging New Yorker.
Memo to RR: Muslims are those that follow Islam, Islamists are those who believe that their religion provides the basis for politics, radical Islamists believe in establishing a caliphate by force. Is that clear enough?
No. Muslims are retarded, violent followers of a destructive cult that oppresses women, freedom of expression, music, culture, and this cult is just basically an murderous theocratic nightmare. A cult that needs to be eradicated, like christianity. Exceptions only confirm the rule.
I shit on Allah, and I shit on the Christian church.
Dripping with frustration! Just post your hideous photograph and your contact information on a dating site already, blubber butt. I'm sure there's a desperate dog-faced doodlestain out there who would like to date your sorry, lonely, uglyass self. Do you have money?
Like I said, hitting close to home.
Ah Christopher Hitchens...the wishy-washy megalomaniac who can't decide which frivolous hyped mainstream nonsense he's going to defend with his overrated drunken diatribes this time. Is he a role model of yours?
Translation: "It's not fair that he's famous and respected and I'm still sitting at home being laughed at on a blog. WAAAAAAHHHHH!"
I guess I'm pretty close to hitting home and it's stinging New Yorker.
Um, no. I don't care for bigots of any stripe, including mental midgets who use the middle school insult that someone is "gay". I'm flattered that you're trying to imitate me. Don't worry, with about 10 more years of schooling and some psychological therapy, you might be able to be a normal member of society.
Muslims are retarded, violent followers of a destructive cult that oppresses women, freedom of expression, music, culture, and this cult is just basically an murderous theocratic nightmare.
Sure, some Muslims are like this, and some governments of Muslims countries are like this, but from Senegal to Bosnia to Indonesia, there are hundreds of millions of Muslims who are ordinary people with no interest in jihad or martyrdom.
You know, it would probably help if you got out and interacted with people, Roid Rage. It's much better for your mental health than sitting in front of a computer wishing death on millions of people whom you've crudely painted as indistinguishable from one another.
Like I said, hitting close to home.
Ooooh. Did I steal your lollypop?
Translation: "It's not fair that he's famous and respected and I'm still sitting at home being laughed at on a blog. WAAAAAAHHHHH!"
The laughter of neurotic homosexual pseudo-intellectuals is something I welcome. I don't want any sliver of appreciation from shameless revisionist traitors. Famous and respected? BWHAHAHAHAHA.
Um, no. I don't care for bigots of any stripe, including mental midgets who use the middle school insult that someone is "gay". I'm flattered that you're trying to imitate me. Don't worry, with about 10 more years of schooling and some psychological therapy, you might be able to be a normal member of society.
Straight from the darkroom, shaking the cocktail, taking it firmly up the ass and giving his partner the reach-around, New Yorker attempts to establish his presumed 'intellectual' superiority with repetitive references to therapy. Funny thing is, of course, his lies about 9/11 sit right along side Troy Sexton, SLC's former blog mascot, now diagnosed with Intermittent Explosive Disorder after abusing his children and on medication.
Schooling? And what kind of "schoolinǵ" were you provided, you intellectually dwindling sack of lying horse manure? Does your education include any engineering? Greek and Latin? Physics and chemistry? Or are you going to try to stampede me again with fact fetish and name dropping? Hmmm, rambling rhino? What was your first thought after I shoved the evidence of cover-up in your silly little sperm receptacle face? It was "shit, he's right!" wasn't it? Where were your rebuttals? Couldn't dig them up from that cesspool of fascist revisionist bullcrap sources that serve as the rotten pillars of your apologetic support for the so-called "war on terror"? No more prevarications? On your best day, you are nothing but a speck of bird shit scrubbed from the asphalt I bulldozer over. Now get back into the library and shape up, because you ain't foolin' anybody, clown. Tsssss.
"You know, it would probably help if you got out and interacted with people, Roid Rage. It's much better for your mental health than sitting in front of a computer wishing death on millions of people whom you've crudely painted as indistinguishable from one another."
Tell me. How much leeway is there for a kafir or a dhimmi in islamic nations? Hmmm? How much tolerance is there for apostasy? Hmmm?
Take your pick. Get shot, stabbed, hung stoned and/or issued a fatwa by takfiri.
How much tolerance is there for atheists in the United States? Do they get ahead much, socially? Any chance of a congressional or senatorial seat? Was not Bush inspired by "God" to wage war?
Fuck institutional religion.
'Muslims are retarded, violent followers of a destructive cult that oppresses women, freedom of expression, music, culture, and this cult is just basically an murderous theocratic nightmare.'
Yet another truther who turns out to be a raving bigot. Such a surprise.
'Ah Christopher Hitchens...the wishy-washy megalomaniac who can't decide which frivolous hyped mainstream nonsense he's going to defend with his overrated drunken diatribes this time. Is he a role model of yours?'
Before 9/11 Hitchens was a hero to the far-left. What changed (and no, it wasn't the fact that he suddenly discovered alcohol)?
Yet another truther who turns out to
be a raving bigot. Such a surprise.
I apologize. I love islam. Will you love it with me?
Before 9/11 Hitchens was a hero to the far-left. What changed (and no, it wasn't the fact that he suddenly discovered alcohol)?"
He went loop-de-loop and put on his brown shirt, like you lot.
Seeing as you seem prepared to smear 1 billion people as bloodthirsty maniacs, I don't think you're in much of a position to describe us as 'brown-shirts', RR.
Self-awareness doesn't seem to be your strong point.
My goodness, New Yorker, you did a great job in further exposing the raving lunatic coward 'raging pantload' for the sick, hateful fascist, the spittle-slathered polyp he really is.
Good job, good job.
"Seeing as you seem prepared to smear 1 billion people as bloodthirsty maniacs, I don't think you're in much of a position to describe us as 'brown-shirts', RR.
Self-awareness doesn't seem to be your strong point."
In my opinion, muslims are followers of a violent, oppressive cult. There could be 20 trillion muslims, this changes nothing about my opinion. It's a dangerous ideology of indoctrination, like ultra-nationalism.
'In my opinion, muslims are followers of a violent, oppressive cult. There could be 20 trillion muslims, this changes nothing about my opinion. It's a dangerous ideology of indoctrination, like ultra-nationalism.'
So on the one hand you think that millions of Muslims worldwide - irrespective of race, gender, ethnicity, social background, specific doctrinal beliefs etc - are all alike and share exactly the same rabid world-view, but you think it most unlikely that a handful amongst them can commit an act of mass-casualty terrorism on US soil which kills up to 3,000 people.
There's something wrong with your logic here ...
"but you think it most unlikely that a handful amongst them can commit an act of mass-casualty terrorism on US soil which kills up to 3,000 people.
There's something wrong with your logic here ..."
Where on earth did you get the idea that I think there were no muslim terrorists involved? My position is that the United States government, specifically the neocon faction is complicit, by facilitation.
No. Muslims are retarded, violent followers of a destructive cult that oppresses women, freedom of expression, music, culture, and this cult is just basically an murderous theocratic nightmare. A cult that needs to be eradicated, like christianity.
Are you quoting Hitchens there or just paraphrasing him?
You accuse everyone of being extremists then call for the eradication of Christians and Muslims. Really now!
Also, it is a false equivalence to compare Atheists in the United States to infidels in the Islamic world. Do you live in the US interior somewhere? You need to come to the coastal cities where people will greet your anti-theism with open arms! Or you could move to Europe.
(sorry to denigrate the US interior but that's where most of our religious nuts live)
I have to admit I prefer your brand of obnoxious oversimplifying anti-theism to apologists for Islamism who are in complete denial. I just think you paint with too broad a brush and have way to high expectations of humanity.
The masses need their opiate!
:)
RR I'm sure then that you will be just as critical of Israeli Settlers who are just as fanatically religious as any Qutibist?
I get the whole religion-is-evil thing but there are too many places where there is very little religion yet all the violence and backwardness usually associated with religiosity is still present. Ethnic and economic conflicts seem to be enough to get people to kill each other. But there's nothing quite like a war where everyone thinks that God is on their side.
'Where on earth did you get the idea that I think there were no muslim terrorists involved? My position is that the United States government, specifically the neocon faction is complicit, by facilitation.'
Pardon me for stating the bleeding obvious, RR, but if you are basically admitting that there are enough individuals within the Muslim world that are motivated enough to plan and commit an attack like 9/11, then why does the US government need to facilitate such an atrocity? And bear in mind that in previous threads you've said that a CD on the WTC towers was within the bounds of feasibility.
Not for the last time, a truther contradicts himself. Surprise surprise.
RR I'm sure then that you will be just as critical of Israeli Settlers who are just as fanatically religious as any Qutibist?
Hmmm.. sort of..but I'm more concerned about Zionism than I am about Judaism, if that makes any sense. For some Israelis, the state of Israel is the most uncompromising nationalist religion imaginable. These people are highly trained, highly dangerous, and FYI, they don't give a shit about Americans, nor their CIA counterparts or even American troops. They've sacrificed and murdered them before.
I get the whole religion-is-evil thing but there are too many places where there is very little religion yet all the violence and backwardness usually associated with religiosity is still present. Ethnic and economic conflicts seem to be enough to get people to kill each other. But there's nothing quite like a war where everyone thinks that God is on their side.
Okay I basically exaggerated my hatred for institutional religion to the extreme. But I do feel like throwing up when I see these assholes on TV with their "Allah is Great" mass hysteria. So many dissenters/free thinkers have been murdered in the name of Islam. It's like a small genocide of dissent.
Pardon me for stating the bleeding obvious, RR, but if you are basically admitting that there are enough individuals within the Muslim world that are motivated enough to plan and commit an attack like 9/11, then why does the US government need to facilitate such an atrocity? And bear in mind that in previous threads you've said that a CD on the WTC towers was within the bounds of feasibility.
Same way Oswald was framed. Oswald wasn't innocent, but when push came to shove, Oswald was fucked over and offered up as the sacrificial lamb. Oswald is even said to have been infiltrating the Kennedy assassination group. Or so he thought. Compare him to Ali Mohamed, however Ali Mohamed survived and is now in an unknown location.
Not for the last time, a truther contradicts himself. Surprise surprise.
So some group installs some incendiary materials during fireproofing upgrades, cabling upgrades and elevator maintenance, so that the effects of a plane crash and the ensuing fire are catastrophically aggravated. How is this mutually exclusive with a terrorist attack by OBL and his group?
By the way, I'm still open to be proven wrong w.r.t. CD. We'll see. Mackey makes some sense now and then. When he's not acting like an asshole.
"Hmmm.. sort of..but I'm more concerned about Zionism than I am about Judaism, if that makes any sense."
Now the anti-semite gets revealed, too.
This is getting better and better.
Someone go get the beer, I'll start the popcorn.
Even better.....from another thread raging pantload said:
"Perhaps there's a kernel of truth in there. But the history of false flag operations and the current slippery slope towards totalitarianism, constantly using the GWOT as excuse, has me deeply worried."
And now the cowardly paranoid conspiratard is revealed.
This just keeps getting better and better.
Better make that a case of beer.
"And now the cowardly paranoid conspiratard is revealed."
LOL! Tell us again about the Climate Change conspiracy, Dorothy!
ROFL!!
"Same way Oswald was framed."
Oh sweet jeebus on a pogo stick.
What's next, UFOs?
HAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!!!!
"So some group installs some incendiary materials during fireproofing upgrades, cabling upgrades and elevator maintenance, so that the effects of a plane crash and the ensuing fire are catastrophically aggravated. How is this mutually exclusive with a terrorist attack by OBL and his group?"
Because it's insane to even think of something like that?
"...for if you stare long enough into the Abyss, the Abyss stares also into you."
—Friedrich Nietzsche
So who is Dorothy, anyway? Youir sister?
The one you lust after?
HAHAHAHAHAHHAAAAA!!!!!!
"LOL! Tell us again about the Climate Change conspiracy"
http://wattsupwiththat.com/
http://bishophill.squarespace.com/
http://www.climate-skeptic.com/
http://climateaudit.org/
http://www.climategate.com/
http://www.thegwpf.org/
http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/
http://www.icecap.us/
http://rogerpielkejr.blogspot.com/
Go, read, make your own mind up if AGW is a dead issue or not.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!
Oh sweet jeebus on a pogo stick.
What's next, UFOs?
I suspect he is more the type to buy into chemtrail nonsense. The big bad luminati drugging the masses.
Roid is the type who drinks the fear mongering Kool-aid. A popular thing among the not to bright.
But because UFOs could be true you should fear anal probes from little gray men.
"But because UFOs could be true you should fear anal probes from little gray men."
Which brings us back to raging pantload's Uncle Charlie.....
Hmmm.. sort of..but I'm more concerned about Zionism than I am about Judaism, if that makes any sense. For some Israelis, the state of Israel is the most uncompromising nationalist religion imaginable.
Yes well, do differentiate between Israel (1967ish borders) and Greater Israel, which most of Israeli society has given up on. Israelis, especially the urban ones, are very open minded and ready to make peace with the Arabs even if it means giving up "their" territory. They are very secular people who are proud of the fact that Israeli Arabs are the freest most prosperous Arabs in the Middle East. Then you have the settlers and their supporters, who are batshit-insane and think that God wants them to ethnically cleanse the West Bank. They're beneath the old South African National Party in my mind.
"Zionist" could mean either of the two groups I just mentioned. The first group will say "Zionists just want a Jewish state!" the second group will say "Zionists want to establish Israel on all the land of Israel which God gave to us bla bla bla."
Okay I basically exaggerated my hatred for institutional religion to the extreme.
YOU? exaggerate your anger? I can't imagine it!
Seriously though, do you live in a town full of fundies? Or do you just watch Fox News too much? I guess I just live outside of what Palin describes as "the Real America" so I don't encounter religious bigots that often.
"I guess I just live outside of what Palin describes as "the Real America" so I don't encounter religious bigots that often."
Or perhaps your stereotypes are wrong, maybe?
My stereotypes are pretty accurate. I live around a bunch of secular over-educated whiners who think that homelessness is the worst problem in the world and that if we'd just stop being mean to Muslims, they'd stop hating us.
I don't hold a grudge against small-town America, I just don't expect them to tolerate atheists, homosexuals and other hell-bound types.
I know I'm using a broad brush here but I think there's a very clear separation between our coastal cities and our interior. This distinction is not unique to the United States either. Cosmopolitan secular urbanites vs nationalist traditional inlanders.
"I suspect he is more the type to buy into chemtrail nonsense. The big bad luminati drugging the masses."
I don't. I saw this on 911blogger though.
Thoughts? I don't buy "chemtrails", but this is a mainstream media report.
Let's get this straight.
* The moon landing was real.
* Chemtrails are mostly a paranoid fantasy. (except news reports such as the above I guess, but that doesn't mean it's about "mind control" or whatever)
* Crop circles are made by hoaxers with too much time on their hands
* Anthropogenic climate change is real
* Islamic terrorism is real
* Al Qaeda exists
* HAARP isn't used to induce earthquakes and tidal waves
* I don't give a damn about secret societies, although it did bother me that Bush and Kerrey were both bonesmen.
* UFOs are Unidentified Flying Objects, not "aliens"
* Obama was born US a citizen
* The earth is round
* The Holocaust happened
* Big brother IS watching you
* There is a general totalitarian tendency at the moment.
* The NWO is a bit of a mystery to me. I think those Alex Jones types are wildly exaggerating and mischaracterizing this phenomenon. Basically, I don't care much about the "NWO".
...Did you guys know that DRG is an NWO adherent? He talks about it in his latest radio interview. He used to participate in NWO/global government think tanks. Some truthers are bothered by this. I could care less, as long as DRG stops writing deeply flawed books.
“…taking it firmly up the ass and giving his partner the reach-around...intellectually dwindling sack of lying horse manure....I shoved the evidence of cover-up in your silly little sperm receptacle face...you are nothing but a speck of bird shit scrubbed from the asphalt I bulldozer over…GayTardBill...I'm sure there's a desperate dog-faced doodlestain out there who would like to date your sorry, lonely, uglyass self…”
or…
* The moon landing was real.
* Chemtrails are mostly a paranoid fantasy. (except news reports such as the above I guess, but that doesn't mean it's about "mind control" or whatever)
* Crop circles are made by hoaxers with too much time on their hands
* Anthropogenic climate change is real
* Islamic terrorism is real
* Al Qaeda exists
* HAARP isn't used to induce earthquakes and tidal waves
* I don't give a damn about secret societies, although it did bother me that Bush and Kerrey were both bonesmen.
* UFOs are Unidentified Flying Objects, not "aliens"
* Obama was born US a citizen
* The earth is round
* The Holocaust happened
* Big brother IS watching you
* There is a general totalitarian tendency at the moment.
* The NWO is a bit of a mystery to me. I think those Alex Jones types are wildly exaggerating and mischaracterizing this phenomenon. Basically, I don't care much about the "NWO".
You do swing from one to the other, eh?
Okay then, Mr Bipolar (or whatever), can you please introduce them, so we know which one we’re dealing with?
First names will be fine.
And, if there's anyone else in there...
* I don't give a damn about secret societies, although it did bother me that Bush and Kerrey were both bonesmen.
* The NWO is a bit of a mystery to me. I think those Alex Jones types are wildly exaggerating and mischaracterizing this phenomenon. Basically, I don't care much about the "NWO".
The problem with Alex Jones and his moron followers is that they confuse "consensus" with "conspiracy."
"Secret" societies aren't all that secret. There's two main blocs among those who rule us, the Anglo-Americans and the Euros. Within the Anglo-Americans the Neocons enjoyed conrtrol from 2000-2006 after which they pissed everyone off and got expelled from the Bush administration. The Old Guard has been in charge since then. And not a moment too soon, the Neocons were going to fuck everything up! Finally the Brezinski-Gates clique is back in charge trying to clean up the mess made by Rumsfeld and his insane underlings.
Seriously RR. Lower your expectations of humanity and the world will make so much more sense!
:-)
<3
You do swing from one to the other, eh?
Okay then, Mr Bipolar (or whatever), can you please introduce them, so we know which one we’re dealing with?
First names will be fine.
And, if there's anyone else in there...
Why do you think I'm bipolar?
YOU SCUM SUCKING BEAR BREATH! BLAAARGH!!
I'm a perfectly reasonable person once you get to DIE!!! DIE!!!!! DIE!!!!!!
The problem with Alex Jones and his moron followers is that they confuse "consensus" with "conspiracy."
I don't quite follow that one.
"Secret" societies aren't all that secret. There's two main blocs among those who rule us, the Anglo-Americans and the Euros. Within the Anglo-Americans the Neocons enjoyed conrtrol from 2000-2006 after which they pissed everyone off and got expelled from the Bush administration. The Old Guard has been in charge since then. And not a moment too soon, the Neocons were going to fuck everything up! Finally the Brezinski-Gates clique is back in charge trying to clean up the mess made by Rumsfeld and his insane underlings.
Seriously RR. Lower your expectations of humanity and the world will make so much more sense!
:-)
<3
While I think Brzezinski is a charming personality, who can talk about geopolitics as if he's your grandfather reading you a story at the hearth-fire, he's also responsible for many of the very things I am now acting against.
Specifically, poking the Afghan beehive out of hatred for the Russians and ruthless opportunism in wishing upon them their Vietnam, eventually culminating in the attacks that prompted our leaders to permanently revoke our rights and freedoms.
It is Brzezinski's Polish roots which motivated his extremely hawkish anti-Russian policies.
As for Gates, Gates is a true Bushite, neck-deep involved in Iran-Contra. Although Rumsfeld may be a true example of a Straussian lunatic, and Gates may be a more calculative and competent minister of defense, Gates is for all intents and purposes one of the bad guys. There appears to be an endless supply of such power brokers with tainted pasts.
And as for those secret societies...one thing AJ and his clique are known for is quote mining, oversimplification and sensationalizing. Like a tabloid.
I'm sure you all think these same criticisms apply to the entire truth movement, but the "truth movement" as such is really not a hierarchical uniform entity. About the only thing AJ and Michael Ruppert have in common is the belief that the government can and will engage in covert operations that are extremely harmful to the American people.
Apart from that, AJ is just a gossip column in some sensationalist rag and Ruppert is the Washington Post.
There are plenty of debunkers who have the same potential, but they seem to always rely on character assassination. Therefore, I learn most from internal confrontations and not from criticisms such as those from SLC. This is apparent when SLC relies on debunking by Loose Nuke and Jimd3100 when it comes to CIT.
Anyways, the only role I see socret societies as having is providing a rough outline of the elites that have influence over our society. Not because they swore a blood oath on some stupid fraternity, but because they are royalty, they are CEO's, they are powerful politicians or strategists, key military and geostrategic policy operators, or just filthy rich.
They get together at the Bilderberg to talk in private. So what? It may not be a desirable way of governing, but it's hardly the evil fellowship of the ring that "really" pulls the strings behind the scenes. Such a perspective is by far too simplistic. These people get old and die. New power hierarchies emerge, around those players who are most ambitious and ruthless in their pursuit of power and influence. Like mob dons.
"Specifically, poking the Afghan beehive out of hatred for the Russians and ruthless opportunism in wishing upon them their Vietnam,"
Which worked, the Bear went home beaten by the Afghanis.
"...eventually culminating in the attacks"
So 9/11 was our fault.
Gotcha.
"...that prompted our leaders to permanently revoke our rights and freedoms."
Where did your's go again? I don'e notice anything missing.
"It is Brzezinski's Polish roots which motivated his extremely hawkish anti-Russian policies."
Of course agressive, expansionist attacks on an independent country have no bearing on ANYTHING, right raging pantload?
Well, that a the fecklessness of that incompetant Democrat Jimmy "Peanuts" Carter.
'So some group installs some incendiary materials during fireproofing upgrades, cabling upgrades and elevator maintenance,'
And they manage to do it without anyone working in the buildings noticing anything amiss.
'so that the effects of a plane crash and the ensuing fire are catastrophically aggravated.'
Do you know any experts on CD who can confirm that this is a likely scenario?
'How is this mutually exclusive with a terrorist attack by OBL and his group?'
Because the latter is demonstrated fact, and admitted by the perpetrators, while claims about a CD are unmitigated bullshit.
'Specifically, poking the Afghan beehive out of hatred for the Russians and ruthless opportunism in wishing upon them their Vietnam, eventually culminating in the attacks that prompted our leaders to permanently revoke our rights and freedoms.'
He didn't need to 'poke the behive', you cretin. Read about what the Khalqi regime did to Afghans between 1978-1979, and what the Soviet army did to the country between December 1979 and February 1989.
It's amazing how the supposed critics of 'imperialism' are prepared to give its perpetrators a free pass - provided they're not Americans, of course.
"It's amazing how the supposed critics of 'imperialism' are prepared to give its perpetrators a free pass - provided they're not Americans, of course."
raging pantload would have been on the sidelines, cheering for the Nazi invasion of Poland.
"Which worked, the Bear went home beaten by the Afghanis."
Tell me, Dorothy, did you finger yourself while watching Rambo III?
"So 9/11 was our fault.
Gotcha."
No, it was YOUR fault. YOU are to blame. 9/11 is Lazarus Long's fault. There, I said it. =)
Where did your's go again? I don'e notice anything missing.
Your brain has been in cryostasis since birth, so that's no surprise, Dorothy.
Of course agressive, expansionist attacks on an independent country have no bearing on ANYTHING, right raging pantload?
Duh, that was the point, canary dropping. Are you really this dense?? Hmmm, of course you are. LOL.
Well, that a the fecklessness of that incompetant Democrat Jimmy "Peanuts" Carter.
Yes, yes; "incompetant" all the way. Dorothy! You tell 'em! LOL!
And they manage to do it without anyone working in the buildings noticing anything amiss.
Yes. Why not? Some Nigerian dude on the CIA watch list can just waltz into an America-bound airplane with PETN in his fucking crotch. What do you think? Need to know basis.
Do you know any experts on CD who can confirm that this is a likely scenario?
Do you know any psychiatrists who can help you with your pathological dependency on authority? There are no "CD experts" on nano-thermite, as evident by the giant, inconsiderate pie in the face that Ron Craig got when he demonstrated his full-fledged ignorance of it. Unless you can charter some LLNL personnel or folks like Tillotson.
Because the latter is demonstrated fact, and admitted by the perpetrators, while claims about a CD are unmitigated bullshit.
Hmmm, I have that somewhat the other way around, keeping standards of forensic evidence in mind. Forensics which only the delusional cult you belong to can handwave carelessly.
He didn't need to 'poke the behive', you cretin. Read about what the Khalqi regime did to Afghans between 1978-1979, and what the Soviet army did to the country between December 1979 and February 1989.
Funding and training the very same groups factions of which later attacked the US. This is called "blow-back", you dodgy delirious dimwitted dumbbell.
It's amazing how the supposed critics of 'imperialism' are prepared to give its perpetrators a free pass - provided they're not Americans, of course.
Yeah, yeah, we're all terrrrrrrists. Fucktard propagandist.
"raging pantload would have been on the sidelines, cheering for the Nazi invasion of Poland."
Why if it isn't oberstormführer Dorothy, and her psychological defense mechanism of projection. You are the right-wing extremist, Dorothy. Like Hitler and Mussolini. Ask any German.
'Yes. Why not? Some Nigerian dude on the CIA watch list can just waltz into an America-bound airplane with PETN in his fucking crotch. What do you think? Need to know basis.'
So rigging an entire skyscraper is a job that's as simple to do as smuggling a small bomb on your person. Hmmm ...
''Do you know any experts on CD who can confirm that this is a likely scenario?'
'Do you know any psychiatrists who can help you with your pathological dependency on authority?'
Straw man alert. Anyone who thinks that 9/11 conspiracy theories are bullshit is a child who thinks that everything the government tells him (or her) is true.
'There are no "CD experts" on nano-thermite, as evident by the giant, inconsiderate pie in the face that Ron Craig got when he demonstrated his full-fledged ignorance of it. Unless you can charter some LLNL personnel or folks like Tillotson.'
Might that not reflect the fact that there's no such thing as a controlled demolition involving nanothermite.
''Because the latter is demonstrated fact, and admitted by the perpetrators, while claims about a CD are unmitigated bullshit.'
Hmmm, I have that somewhat the other way around, keeping standards of forensic evidence in mind.'
And does the absence of any evidence suggesting a CD not bother you at all (after all, you admit here that you can't actually prove a single argument you make):
https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=27396589&postID=1068795479660899513
''He didn't need to 'poke the behive', you cretin. Read about what the Khalqi regime did to Afghans between 1978-1979, and what the Soviet army did to the country between December 1979 and February 1989.'
Funding and training the very same groups factions of which later attacked the US. This is called "blow-back", you dodgy delirious dimwitted dumbbell.'
Hmmm, how many Afghans were involved in 9/11? Who planned the attacks? Ahmed Shah Massoud? Ismail Khan? Abdul Haq? Nope.
'Yeah, yeah, we're all terrrrrrrists. Fucktard propagandist.'
So the fact that you don't have a single word to say about the 1 million killed and the 5 million refugees caused by the Soviet invasion and occupation - not to mention the brutal tactics the Russians employed against the Afghan people (aptly described as 'migratory genocide') - doesn't bother you at all.
You truthers are not only morons, you're fucking hypocrites.
"You are the right-wing extremist, Dorothy. Like Hitler and Mussolini."
And you're the cheerleader for those left-wing fascists, fascist.
Nice skirt, btw.
Did you borrow it from your sister Dorothy, child?
"So the fact that you don't have a single word to say about the 1 million killed and the 5 million refugees caused by the Soviet invasion and occupation - not to mention the brutal tactics the Russians employed against the Afghan people (aptly described as 'migratory genocide') - doesn't bother you at all."
He was on the sidelines cheering the fascists on.
Nice pom-poms by the way.
"He was on the sidelines cheering the fascists on.
Nice pom-poms by the way."
PWWWFFFFRRRT!!
This is me taking a big, smelly, damn near toxic dump on your son's military service again, neo-fascist.
The shit-stain of imperialism.
<3 <3 <3 , Dorothy :P
" Roid Rage said...
"He was on the sidelines cheering the fascists on.
Nice pom-poms by the way."
PWWWFFFFRRRT!!
This is me taking a big, smelly, damn near toxic dump on your son's military service again, neo-fascist."
Bears repeating.
Just to expose to the world what a child you truly are.
There are cement heads and then there's SackDrivel lying on the pub floor again.Did he actually type out a sentence complaining that a "truther" was insensitive to the 1,000,000 deaths and 5,000,000 refugees in Afghanistan circa 1980's? The lunatic soldier,fresh off shock therapy,says this as a devastated,brutalized Iraq tallies its hundreds of thousand of dead since the conquest and millions of refugees clog both sides of its borders."Aptly described as 'migratory genocide'".Sackshite,you really got a bad case Imperialist Insanity.
"Arhoolie said...
There are cement heads and then there's SackDrivel lying on the pub floor again.Did he actually type out a sentence complaining that a "truther" was insensitive to the 1,000,000 deaths and 5,000,000 refugees in Afghanistan circa 1980's? The lunatic soldier,fresh off shock therapy,says this as a devastated,brutalized Iraq tallies its hundreds of thousand of dead since the conquest and millions of refugees clog both sides of its borders."Aptly described as 'migratory genocide'".Sackshite,you really got a bad case Imperialist Insanity."
Oooops, Krazee the Balless Wonder Klown must be out on a weekend pass.
C'mon, Krazee, say "debunker cult".
Everyone here needs a good laugh.
While I think Brzezinski is a charming personality, who can talk about geopolitics as if he's your grandfather reading you a story at the hearth-fire, he's also responsible for many of the very things I am now acting against.
LOL he is rather grandfatherly. And I agree that his Polishness plays a role in his anti-Russian sentiment but I also think that he believes (and it's an old belief) that Russia poses the biggest threat to British and now American hegemony as She is the only power that could potentially dominate the whole of Eurasia. You know:
Who controls eastern Europe rules the Heartland;
Who controls the Heartland rules the World Island; and
Who rules the World Island rules the World,
By "confusing conspiracy with consensus" I really mean on trade policy. There is (WAS) a consensus that emerged in the 1990s among the leaders of both North America and Europe that lower trade barriers and fewer restrictions on capital movement were a good thing. I think it was called "The Washington Consensus." In recent years globalization has hit a massive road block and the Consensus is crumbling.
Of course Alex Jones takes that and runs with turning it into OMG A PLAN FOR ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT ONE BANK ONE RELIGION OMG.
He IS the tabloid!
Although Rumsfeld may be a true example of a Straussian lunatic,
Honestly I don't even think Rumsfeld was really a true neocon, but he brought them all into the Pengaton and they ruffled the feathers of some powerful chickens. Aside from their absurd quasi-Leninist notions of Global Democratic Revolution, their long term plan for Iraq was unacceptable. They wanted to use Iraqi oil to flood the markets and undermine Saudi Arabia and OPEC. There was no way in hell American oil interests were going to let this happen as they're buddies with the Saudis and an oil price collapse would hurt them too. At least that's my take one it. There was a serious power shift in 2006 when Rumsfeld and his neocon goblins got the boot and the Old Guard came back in.
Of course I know you don't like the Old Guard any more than the neocons (you're familiar with Strauss?) but they're day and night to me.
Plus like you said there is no one monolithic group that controls the world, there are different camps and its important to be able to keep track of them.
Debunker cult
Bears repeating.
Just to expose to the world what a child you truly are.
:( :( :( ... I'm so sorry...but uhm..
BBBBRRRFFFFFT!!
Woops, there goes another nightmarishly odorous clump of poo, splattering over your son's military service. I just can't stop it, Dorothy, it keeps on coming. Excuse me while I take a foul piss on your head. Keep burning them crosses!
<3
So rigging an entire skyscraper is a job that's as simple to do as smuggling a small bomb on your person. Hmmm ...
No, but I was illustrating how selective you are. You know the truther standpoint: WTC security was compromised. I support that standpoint. I especially don't trust Silverstein, Hauer/Kroll and Securacom, and I don't trust PA management either. (Yes I know they lost people on 9/11). Furthermore, if you spike replacement fireproofing or primer paint, the workers applying it don't even know it. Dogs don't smell nano-thermite, either. Can you prove me wrong on that last point? Could the bomb-sniffing dogs in the WTC detect thermite?
Straw man alert. Anyone who thinks that 9/11 conspiracy theories are bullshit is a child who thinks that everything the government tells him (or her) is true.
Hmmm. The straw man is yours, it seems.
Might that not reflect the fact that there's no such thing as a controlled demolition involving nanothermite.
Except 9/11. Perhaps. Nanothermite, depending on the formulation and the application, is an igniter, pyrotechnic, explosive, propellant or incendiary and as such, an explosives expert like Ron Craig should've known about it.
And does the absence of any evidence suggesting a CD not bother you at all
No, it doesn't bother me, because it's not true.
(after all, you admit here that you can't actually prove a single argument you make):
https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=27396589&postID=1068795479660899513
Quote mine me enough, you'll have me saying I vote for Sarah Palin. Note where I say "psychology" will prevent you and your ilk from ever accepting any sort of proof whatsoever.
Hmmm, how many Afghans were involved in 9/11? Who planned the attacks? Ahmed Shah Massoud? Ismail Khan? Abdul Haq? Nope.
Good point. Why did we invade Afghanistan again?
So the fact that you don't have a single word to say about the 1 million killed and the 5 million refugees caused by the Soviet invasion and occupation - not to mention the brutal tactics the Russians employed against the Afghan people (aptly described as 'migratory genocide') - doesn't bother you at all.
Oh it bothers me. It bothers me whether or not the invasion was provoked by Brzezinksi's covert operations. What makes you think I'm a friend of any sort of totalitarian regime? Your with-us-or-against-us propaganda meme?
You truthers are not only morons, you're fucking hypocrites.
Likewise. You people are hardcore liars. Truth to you assholes is like the plague: stay as far away from it as possible..out of fear of contamination.
LOL he is rather grandfatherly. And I agree that his Polishness plays a role in his anti-Russian sentiment but I also think that he believes (and it's an old belief) that Russia poses the biggest threat to British and now American hegemony as She is the only power that could potentially dominate the whole of Eurasia. You know:
Who controls eastern Europe rules the Heartland;
Who controls the Heartland rules the World Island; and
Who rules the World Island rules the World,
Yep, although I find this to be a rather primitive theory. Currently it seems as if world domination is primarily determined by (exclusive) access to natural resources. There are many other factors, but that being the most dominant one.
By "confusing conspiracy with consensus" I really mean on trade policy. There is (WAS) a consensus that emerged in the 1990s among the leaders of both North America and Europe that lower trade barriers and fewer restrictions on capital movement were a good thing. I think it was called "The Washington Consensus." In recent years globalization has hit a massive road block and the Consensus is crumbling.
Of course Alex Jones takes that and runs with turning it into OMG A PLAN FOR ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT ONE BANK ONE RELIGION OMG.
He IS the tabloid!
Okay, good observations there, but I'd say crumbling globalization is the anti-thesis to AJ's myopic grand theory.
I think Kissinger and Brown's recent comments about establishing a "New World Order" in relation to Obama's election and the financial crisis are what really gave AJ some fresh ammo. But hey, I don't pretend to know much about this "NWO" stuff. My interests are elsewhere.
Honestly I don't even think Rumsfeld was really a true neocon, but he brought them all into the Pengaton and they ruffled the feathers of some powerful chickens. Aside from their absurd quasi-Leninist notions of Global Democratic Revolution, their long term plan for Iraq was unacceptable. They wanted to use Iraqi oil to flood the markets and undermine Saudi Arabia and OPEC. There was no way in hell American oil interests were going to let this happen as they're buddies with the Saudis and an oil price collapse would hurt them too. At least that's my take one it. There was a serious power shift in 2006 when Rumsfeld and his neocon goblins got the boot and the Old Guard came back in.
Of course I know you don't like the Old Guard any more than the neocons (you're familiar with Strauss?) but they're day and night to me.
Yes I am familiar with Strauss. And I agree with you on Iraq, but always I think it was convergence of geopolitical interests that yields today's situation, with oil, Israel, military bases, greed and of course, national security as some of the key reasons. If you're acting in the interest of national security, (or at least if you think you are) then I think you'll be quick to rationalize any wrongdoings in the process.
Who do you consider to be the Old Guard? You've kind of lost me there. All I see in Gates was a figurehead intellectual to silence the Rumsfeld critics, but still a made man in the Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Wolfowitz/Perle/Feith/Ledeen mafia clique.
Plus like you said there is no one monolithic group that controls the world, there are different camps and its important to be able to keep track of them.
Yeah, I did forget to mention that there are institutions which facilitate the career opportunities of ambitious new rulers, and as such these institutions do have a lasting and durable sort of extra-parliamentary power and influence over society. But in the end, behind organizations are people. Different times, different emperors.
'Good point. Why did we invade Afghanistan again'
I suggest you read Ahmed Rashid's book on the Taliban, or Rohan Gunaratna's on Al-Qaeda, before you ask that question again. In fact. I suggest you just read.
And on that note ...
''So the fact that you don't have a single word to say about the 1 million killed and the 5 million refugees caused by the Soviet invasion and occupation - not to mention the brutal tactics the Russians employed against the Afghan people (aptly described as 'migratory genocide') - doesn't bother you at all.'
Oh it bothers me. It bothers me whether or not the invasion was provoked by Brzezinksi's covert operations.'
Which wasn't the case. Read the following, and learn, dickhead (follow the link on the USSR and Afghanistan in Section 2):
http://www.wilsoncenter.org/index.cfm?topic_id=1409&fuseaction=topics.publications&group_id=14051
Notice the lack of any reference to US covert operations to explain the Politburo's decision to invade Afghanistan in December 1979.
Evidence is a bitch, isn't it?
Incidentally, when I asked you to justify your rantings earlier this month, you came out with the following:
'SA: How can you actually prove this alternative thesis?
RR: I can't.'
I'll make this simple, so that even you can understand. You can make up fancy stories about the WTC towers being blown up by some top-secret explosive which is so state-of-the-art that charges can be installed without anyone noticing, and that there's no forensic evidence afterwards to show they've been used. But unless you have any actual PROOF that they were used, you are essentially nothing more than a bullshitter, pure and simple.
I suggest you read Ahmed Rashid's book on the Taliban, or Rohan Gunaratna's on Al-Qaeda, before you ask that question again. In fact. I suggest you just read.
And on that note ...
A false note. Which is it? Afghanistan involved in 9/11 or not? Why did we go there then? Never did I accuse "Afghans" of 9/11 in my remark about Brzezinski's covert meddling, although the terrorist support networks over there include 'nuff Afghans for one to claim that Afghans too, were involved.
You can't have it both ways. Either you argue Afghanistan and its CIA-trained terrorists/mujahideen are unrelated to 9/11, ergo Brzezinski and Carter bear no blame, OR.... you defend the invasion and therefore vindicate my argument. Which is it? Are your ears ringing? Why are you now hypocritically making the case for no Afghans being involved yet simultaneously supporting the invasion? Don't you think I know many mujahideen were foreign recruits? But what really caused the Taliban, and therefore Bin Laden, to come out on top after the civil war? Hmmm?
Thanks for the book tips, now, I advise you to go talk to some Afghans in person, too.
Which wasn't the case. Read the following, and learn, dickhead (follow the link on the USSR and Afghanistan in (...)
Notice the lack of any reference to US covert operations to explain the Politburo's decision to invade Afghanistan in December 1979.
Right.
Question: The former director of the CIA, Robert Gates, stated in his memoirs ["From the Shadows"], that American intelligence services began to aid the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan 6 months before the Soviet intervention. In this period you were the national security adviser to President Carter. You therefore played a role in this affair. Is that correct?
Brzezinski: Yes. According to the official version of history, CIA aid to the Mujahadeen began during 1980, that is to say, after the Soviet army invaded Afghanistan, 24 Dec 1979. But the reality, secretly guarded until now, is completely otherwise Indeed, it was July 3, 1979 that President Carter signed the first directive for secret aid to the opponents of the pro-Soviet regime in Kabul. And that very day, I wrote a note to the president in which I explained to him that in my opinion this aid was going to induce a Soviet military intervention.
— Le Nouvel Observateur, Paris, 15-21 January 1998
Evidence is a bitch, isn't it?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
INDEED.
Especially when backed up by Robert Gates' memoirs. The intent was there, the result desired.
Incidentally, when I asked you to justify your rantings earlier this month, you came out with the following:
'SA: How can you actually prove this alternative thesis?
RR: I can't.'
Who do you think you're fooling, you lying son of a bitch? Did your mother's crack whore moonlighting activities deprive you of nutrients responsible for growing basic mental faculties, hmmm? Fucking quote mining piece of horse crap. Here is the actual quote (emphasis mine):
(6) How you can actually prove this alternative thesis.
I can't. Justice will never be served, the truth will never come to light. It's a matter of psychology. I'm sure we both agree on that last point. There is close to zero chance I'll ever believe an alien story, I'm sure you regard this as such.
I can't, because you're an INCOMPETENT, INCREDULOUS, MENTALLY HANDICAPPED FUCKING MORON. THAT was my point.
I'll make this simple, so that even you can understand.
Yeah, let's do that, you fucking mentally deprived sewer rat. Let's do that.
You can make up fancy stories about ....BLABLABLA.
The evidence is in the paper, denialist. All you can do is pretend it doesn't exist. You can't debate me on it, you'd lose. All you have is conspiracy theories about the authors.
Who do you consider to be the Old Guard?
"Old Guard" isn't really specific enough. The big division I'm thinking of is between the old cold warrior balance-of-power types and the neo-cons who want to spread democracy through force. The neocons were always around but Reagan, Bush I, and Clinton kept them in the Pentagon basement because everyone knew they were crazy. Then Bush II put them in positions of power, and with the traumatizing effect of 9-11 they were able to promote their policies. As we have seen they have been an unmitigated disaster.
9-11 had a radicalizing effect on Cheney and probably Rumsfeld and others who were once part of the old establishment. There's a great quote from Cheney as Bush I's secretary of defense about what a bad idea it would be to topple Saddam Hussein because of all the chaos it would unleash.
So I guess its a generational as much as it is an ideological distinction. I'm pretty sure Brzezinski is back in a position of influence with Obama's Administration. Hillary Clinton isn't really a foreign policy wonk, they must be getting their ideas from somewhere.
But what really caused the Taliban, and therefore Bin Laden, to come out on top after the civil war?
Pakistan.
Operation Cyclone was a massive multi-national effort. The Saudis and Pakistanis were involved too. Even the Chinese helped out.
Either you argue Afghanistan and its CIA-trained terrorists/mujahideen are unrelated to 9/11
The fact that they hate the west isn't a direct result of our meddling in the 80's. It could be argued that we enabled them and that had we not backed the Mujihadeen they wouldn't have much of the training they have, but its a stretch to say that Carter is to blame. Every time one conflict ends, the next one emerges out of its resolution. The cold war emerged from the end of WWII, WWII from WWI, WWI from... many factors but I think you get my point.
One of my favorite journalists, Eric Margolis told an interesting and frightening story. He spent a lot of time in Afghanistan in the 80s. One of the Mujaheddin commanders he spoke to told him something along the lines of "once we have defeated the Soviets we will then defeat the Western infidels." He was pretty stunned by it but it certainly makes sense looking back. The enemy of your enemy isn't always your friend eh?
The real question is, did the CIA know how hostile these guys were towards us and just not care, or were they just culturally ignorant?
The troubling narrative I keep hearing told now is that we "abandoned" Afghanistan in the 90s and that's why the Taliban came to power. If we had just stayed to spread liberal democracy Afghanistan would be a wonderful stable place and 9-11 wouldn't have happened. Right...
I have no illusions whatsoever about Islamic extremism, unlike many of my so-called "truther" "allies" who try to make the case that Islamic terrorism doesn't exist and that there were no muslim hijackers on 9/11.
You'd be surprised how much I hate the "truthers" who proclaim this sort of bullcrap. Neither do I think that US intervention in Afghanistan was the only or even primary cause of the current disastrous state of affairs. In the end, the imperialist and violently evangelist nature of Islam, the Palestine conflict, and Western occupation and manipulation of the Middle-East are. Chaos theory dictates 9/11 probably wouldn't have happened as such, but eventually something else would have.
However, all this nuance doesn't take away anything from the fact that we have a serious blow-back problem with the CIA. What is the right analogy here? The CIA, throughout history, kept summoning monsters from the sinister crypts of ..well...hell... to do their bidding abroad. To fight communists. It (and its masters) has to own up to this (ongoing) fiasco. Its trained monsters are running amok all over the globe, out of control. Who knows what other covertly sponsored hobgoblins lurk to lash out at us with our own training and weapons.
The reason why I focus on this aspect of history is because I don't have to focus on the Islamist/fundamentalist aspect: the entire mainstream media/political/academic/military apparatus is already doing that for us. They don't need any help.
RR, you're with us or you're with the terrorists.
haha I'm joking. But seriously I like that you arn't stuck in the "good guys vs bad guys" mentality. It's really more like "bad guys vs bad guys."
As far as blowback goes, I'm open to the idea that governments provoke attacks, just not that they plan and carry them out. Jabba the -err I mean Ariel Sharon provoked the second intifada for political gain. So, blowback is a bad thing, but sometimes it can benefit certain agendas.
And as much as we hear about the crazy Islamists from the media, they leave out quite a few details. That's what the internet is for I suppose.
It (and its masters) has to own up to this (ongoing) fiasco.
Who are it's masters? I thought civilian government was in control of the intelligence agencies ;)
To me, the biggest "masters" throughout history have been people such as the Dulles brothers and Bush senior. And the geostrategists such as Brzezinksi and Kissinger. And Friedmanites. The entire anti-communist extremist network. They were just as bad as the (sometimes phantom) enemy they were fighting.
Kissinger is a one man foreign policy disaster. Well, okay he might have had some success if success is measured by the fruits of imperial conquest, but the atrocities committed in the process don't count as "success" in my book.
Kissinger and his ilk may have thought the end justified the means, and that if the end could be described as "capitalist democracy" of some sort, that history would judge them kindly.
Au contraire. I have a hard time seeing folks like Kissinger as anything more than brutal and ruthless potentates.
To me, the biggest "masters" throughout history have been people such as the Dulles brothers and Bush senior.
The Old Guard :) Yes, there was a bipartisan consensus that the Soviet Union was an expansionist threat and that her expansion needed to be checked by any means necessary. Containment was the most successfully implemented foreign policy doctrine I can think of. Both parties pursued it when in power, albeit with some minor differences. This speaks to the sold intellectual foundation as formulated by George Kennan, not a secret evil cabal.
As far as Kissinger goes, he was public enemy #1 for the neocons. Kissinger was pushing a policy of detente because he knew that an arms race would probably bankrupt both empires. The neocons wanted an arms race and escalation of tensions.
Kissinger was also crucial in opening ties with China and eventually bringing China into an anti-soviet informal alliance with us, which was probably the turning point in the cold war and a significant turning point for China and the whole world as it facilitated the Open Door policy and made Deng's reforms possible.
Kissinger also helped avert a nuclear war. The world came very very close in 1973. The Israelis were overwhelmed and Meir had the Jericho missiles armed and ready. God only knows how that would have turned out.
There's also disengagement from Indochina, which was um... very messy. But Kissinger was behind that. Khmer Rouge aside, I think we can agree that it's a good thing that we're no longer in Vietnam eh?
It's always hard to tell how history will judge people, especially someone like Kissinger. When Nixon was chatting with Zhou Enlai on his famous trip to China he asked Zhou what he thought about the French Revolution. Zhou replied "It's too soon to tell."
"The consensus of opinion among the best structural engineers in the field all agree. The WTC was NOT a controlled demolition. You know... guys who ACTUALLY make a living designee multi story buildings? Not retired guys who designed row houses or decks, You know REAL professionals."
ha ha!! I come on here for the jokes.
This architects/engineers/pilots etc for 9/11 truth is itself a joke. What next? Toilet Cleaners for 9/11 Truth? Dentists? Anaesthetists?
How about "Stalkers For 9/11 Lies" or "Child Abusers For 9/11 Lies", or perhaps even "Racists & Mental Patients For 9/11 Lies"? Troy Sexton can set it up and you can be the first to join! =)
RR, the 'aid' Brzezinski refered to in his interview amounted to $500,000 dollars worth of radios and medical supplies, which is hardly the major aid programme you depict. In any case, as shown in these translated documents from the Russian archives, it had no effect whatsoever in shaping the Soviet decision to intervene:
http://www.wilsoncenter.org/topics/pubs/ACF193.pdf
Your historical ignorance is matched only by your scientific illiteracy and your generally inadequate education, which would shame a regular on the short-bus. Hence your insistence on believing in a CD of the WTC towers, despite the complete lack of any evidence to support your case.
I pity you for being such a blatant special needs case.
sackcloth and ashes:
Thank you so much for this source. I am thoroughly enjoying reading it. I will comment more later, but in the mean time, I am forced to ask you: have you even read it?
'Thank you so much for this source. I am thoroughly enjoying reading it. I will comment more later, but in the mean time, I am forced to ask you: have you even read it?'
Yes I have, Roid Rage. I happen to teach history (particularly that of the Cold War) as part of my job. Do you need me to tell you what a 'job' is?
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