Tuesday, June 14, 2011

Leopold's New Scoop

Is just like his old scoop, which came from the kitty litter box. This is getting highlighted over at 9-11 Flogger:

For many Americans, the emotional reaction to President Barack Obama's announcement last month that a Navy Seal team had killed Osama bin Laden during a raid at his compound in Pakistan was celebratory. But for others, like the mysterious Iron Man, who has spent his career lurking in the shadows, the death of the late al-Qaeda leader is a painful reminder of what could have been avoided had the government heeded numerous early warnings of an impending attack against the very targets terrorists struck on 9/11.


Yes, the usual, "if they'd only listened to me," crap. Get the early warning:
For example, Iron Man states in his letter that in the summer of 2000, DO5 briefed USJFCOM senior intelligence officials and staffers, including the deputy commander in chief, on the "WMD Threat to the U.S."

Iron Man describes a "sensitive," "oral briefing" that took place that summer "indicating that the World Trade Centers #1 and #2 were the most likely buildings to be attacked [by al-Qaeda], followed closely by the Pentagon. The briefer indicated that the worst case scenario would be one tower collapsed onto another."


Wow, talk about prescient! Somebody actually predicted that al Qaeda would topple one building into another! It's a miraculous bit of intelligence.

Well, except for one little thing. It's the exact plot that Ramsi Yousef attempted in 1993 with his bomb in the parking garage.

Furthermore, as he states in his letter, Iron Man was certain that such a scenario was part of a "red cell analysis" discussion that took place prior to the intelligence briefing and included a finding that the buildings "could be struck by a jetliner." He wrote that there was a suggestion about alerting WTC security and engineering or architectural staff, "but the idea was not further explored because of a command climate discouraging contact with the civilian community."


The part about struck by a jetliner is indeed interesting and would actually be prescient. But Leopold does not include that portion of the letter, and of course, this is somewhat like Able Danger; a claim made after the fact with no evidence other than the claim that, "Iron Man was certain." Oh, and that bit about warning the WTC security and engineering or architectural staff is priceless. What were they supposed to do, mount anti-aircraft guns on the sides of the buildings?

Given Leopold's history--he notoriously claimed that Karl Rove had been indicted for perjury in the Valerie Plame case, which never happened--he doesn't get the benefit of the doubt.

As usual, the real hilarity is in the comments:
The real story of what happened on 9-11 will be revealed. Right after they tell us what happened at Pearl Harbor in 1943 and what happened in Dallas in 1963.


Embarrassing indeed but there are about 10 comments in reply to that thread before somebody notices that 1943 is the wrong year for Pearl Harbor. My favorite is this guy:
I can tell you what happened in Dallas. and I was not even born until 2 weeks after it happened.

Egged on, he elaborates:
Four teams of shooters. Oswald Brading Fratiano and Roselli who fired the fatal shots. Oswald was a willing participant but did not know he was being set up. Reasons he was chosen as the patsy was the Russian wife and little known fact Oswald was working for JFK under Hoover closing down the anti-Castro training camps in the Gulf region of the US. Each team had a timer and supervisor whose responsibility was to pick up the weapons and casings. They threw Oswalds rifle behind the boxes on the sixth floor and his fate was sealed. E Howard Hunt and GW Bush were the planners along with G Ford who planned the route. Failed BOP invasion codename Zapata same as HWs offshore oil co. Ruby was small time mafia as was most of the Dallas PD thats why Brading was able to fire from the Dal Tex building w/o fear of prosecution. Several of the operatives were arrested and released. Motives for JFKs murder were numerous. Exec orders abolishing the FED the firing of Allan Dulles for carrying out the failed Bay of Pigs invasion against his orders. The fact JFK would not sign on to Northwoods and JFK refused to be controlled by the Jesuits and the Vatican. Now take that info and research for yourself our collective intelligence will thank you when youve caught up. Or drink the koolaid.

And:
Great...

.....but
.
you left out the Israeli Mossad Connection. All the underworld guys you mentioned even the dallas police and prosecutors office worked for the Syndicate, i.e Meyer Lansky, the capo of capo's, little Big Man, the dude who told everyone in US organized crime what to do. Why the Israeli connection? Because (1) the CIA and the Mossad have been coonected at the hip since their respective births following WWII. Here the OSS used organized crime in europe and the US to support wartime operations. That brought the OSS into contact with Lansky who brought them into contact with the Jewish underwold in Europe which would later form the foundations of Mossad.


Marvin Bush, Dubya's brother worked for the security company that guarded the World Trade Center.


And for many weeks, before 9/11, massive "construction" was performed on these buildings, with armed guards stationed to keep curious people out.

Labels: , ,

146 Comments:

At 14 June, 2011 11:42, Blogger snug.bug said...

NORAD was prescient too. IN the two years before 9/11, they ran drills that involved a hijacked airliner crashed into the World Trade Center.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2004-04-18-norad_x.htm

"In the two years before the Sept. 11 attacks, the North American Aerospace Defense Command conducted exercises simulating what the White House says was unimaginable at the time: hijacked airliners used as weapons to crash into targets and cause mass casualties. One of the imagined targets was the World Trade Center."

 
At 14 June, 2011 11:49, Blogger GuitarBill said...

Shut up, goat fucker.

The goat fucker's comment should be removed because its a naked attempt to hijack another thread with off-topic goat fucker propaganda.

 
At 14 June, 2011 11:50, Blogger GuitarBill said...

"...Okay, you’ve covered your ass, now get back to Washington, D.C." -- George W. Bush's response after reading the now-famous 6 August 2001 memo titled "Bin Ladin Determined to Strike in US." An excerpt from investigative reporter Ron Suskind's book titled, The One Percent Doctrine: Deep Inside America's Pursuit of Its Enemies Since 9/11 (Simon & Schuster, June 2006).

http://www.amazon.com/One-Percent-Doctrine-Americas-Pursuit/dp/0743271106

No gross negligence or dereliction of duty there, folks...move along.

It was Clinton's fault, right?

Riiiiiiiight!

 
At 14 June, 2011 12:29, Blogger Pat said...

And what is Brian leaving out of the discussion?

"The exercises differed from the Sept. 11 attacks in one important respect: The planes in the simulation were coming from a foreign country."

GB, I find Suskind's quote about as credible as the one about the constitution being "just a goddamned piece of paper."

And nobody here is blaming the attacks on Clinton.

 
At 14 June, 2011 12:30, Blogger snug.bug said...

What difference does it make where the airplanes come from? An interception is an interception.

 
At 14 June, 2011 12:36, Blogger GuitarBill said...

Pat wrote, "...GB, I find Suskind's quote about as credible as the one about the constitution being 'just a goddamned piece of paper.'"

Capitol Hill Blue admitted the "just a goddamned piece of paper" quote was mistaken.

http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_7779.shtml

That said, I fail to see how Ron Suskind's investigative report on the Bush's dismissal of the CIA's warning is rendered incredible. Would you care to substantiate that assertion, Pat?

 
At 14 June, 2011 12:43, Blogger GuitarBill said...

"...What difference does it make where the airplanes come from? An interception is an interception."

The answer is simple, goat fucker. But since you're a cretin, liar and self-admitted propagandist, the details are lost on you. So repeating the specifics that prove you're wrong for the thousandth time is a waste of energy and effort.

"...I think I'll stick to diplomacy, propaganda, and civil confrontation, thank you. It seems to have worked in isolating Barrett and Ranke." -- Brian "goat fucker" Good posting under his latest sock puppet handle, "truebeleaguer."

http://truthaction.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7149&start=30

Thus, your concerns are worse than a waste of time, and your comment's should be deleted with extreme prejudice.

 
At 14 June, 2011 12:47, Blogger WhyAskQuestions said...

"the North American Aerospace Defense Command conducted exercises simulating what the White House says was unimaginable at the time"

Wow goat fucker, you managed (yet again) not to look at the whole story. They were talking about SIMULATIONS, not predictions. You fucking retard!

 
At 14 June, 2011 12:49, Blogger WhyAskQuestions said...

What difference does it make where the airplanes come from? An interception is an interception.
----------

Flight 93 wasn't "intercepted" you prick. You don't live close to Shanksville nor did you see Flt. 93 fly over your home at the time. Plus the Johnstown Airport only has Apache Helicopters. WTFG you miserable moron!

 
At 14 June, 2011 14:02, Blogger Pat said...

Bill, for starters, it makes no sense given who requested the report on domestic terror threats:

http://www.newsweek.com/2002/05/26/what-went-wrong.html

"Bush was privately beginning to worry about the stream of terror warnings he was hearing that summer, most of them aimed at U.S. targets abroad. On July 5, five days before the Phoenix memo, Bush directed Rice to figure out what was going on domestically."

And so he lashes out at them for covering their asses by giving him a briefing that he himself requested? It doesn't parse.

 
At 14 June, 2011 15:34, Blogger GuitarBill said...

Pat, the Newsweek article you cite contradicts your take on the events leading up to 11 September 1001. For example,

"...Rice was alarmed by what she heard, and asked for a strategy review. But the effort was marginalized and scarcely mentioned in ensuing months as the administration committed itself to other priorities, like national missile defense (NMD) and Iraq."

The question remains, who "marginalized" the counterterrorism efforts for "other priorities," including energy policy, "NMD and Iraq"? In other words, who decided that counterterrorism should take a backseat to "other priorities"?

Clearly, "the Bushies had an ideological agenda of their own," and that agenda didn't include a serious effort to beef up counterterrorism efforts both at home or abroad.

Given the aforementioned revelations, why is Bush's wanton dismissal of the CIA memo so hard to believe?

 
At 14 June, 2011 16:23, Blogger Pat said...

Because he personally requested it.

 
At 14 June, 2011 16:37, Blogger GuitarBill said...

I'm not disputing that Bush requested the report. That's beside the point.

If Bush was so concerned about bin Laden, why did counterterrorism take a backseat to "other priorities"?

Where I come from, counterterrorism is the first priority, not energy policy, "national missile defense (NMD) and Iraq."

 
At 14 June, 2011 16:38, Blogger snug.bug said...

WAQo, the fact that they scrapped the plane-into-Pentagon scenario as "unrealistic" suggests that the fact that they put on the plane-into-WTC simulation as realistic.

Al Qaeda's Project Bojinka plot to crash hijacked airliners into the WTC, Sears Tower, the Pentagon, and other landmark buildings had been known since 1995.

 
At 14 June, 2011 17:43, Blogger GuitarBill said...

"...WAQo, the fact that they scrapped the plane-into-Pentagon scenario as "unrealistic" suggests that the fact that they put on the plane-into-WTC simulation as realistic."

Would someone please translate that sentence from idiot to English.

 
At 14 June, 2011 17:53, Blogger M Gregory Ferris said...

"What difference does it make where the airplanes come from? An interception is an interception."

Because NORAD's radars point OUTWARD, not inside the US. You cannot intercept them if you can't see them. Duh.

"WAQo, the fact that they scrapped the plane-into-Pentagon scenario as "unrealistic" suggests that the fact that they put on the plane-into-WTC simulation as realistic."

No, it suggests different training cultures within the different squadrons, and it also suggests a limited budget forcing the Air Force to focus on likely scenarios.

It is also an example how how seriously NORAD felt this kind of threat actually was.

Once again you cite a media source to make your case, but the source shoots your premise out from under you.

 
At 14 June, 2011 18:01, Blogger GuitarBill said...

MGF wrote, "...Once again you cite a media source to make your case, but the source shoots your premise out from under you."

This is the bane of all quote miners and propagandists. They're betting that you'll fail to read the article cited as "evidence."

The goat fucker needs to learn that propaganda is a soft weapon, and it can easily backfire on the propagandist.

Perhaps someday he'll learn that when you find yourself in a hole, it's a good idea to stop digging.

 
At 14 June, 2011 18:19, Blogger M Gregory Ferris said...

What I like is that you and Pat are having a grown-up debate, citing appropriate sources, and keeping things civil. No bomb-throwing, and no tangents.

Meanwhile Brian's raving about NORAD as if he knows what he's talking about.

The contrast is breath-taking.

 
At 14 June, 2011 18:32, Blogger M Gregory Ferris said...

"Each team had a timer and supervisor whose responsibility was to pick up the weapons and casings. They threw Oswalds rifle behind the boxes on the sixth floor and his fate was sealed."

Uh...what?

I could see a sniper using a spotter, but that was a development that evolved late in Vietnam. If you are going to murder the leader of the free world and hope to get away with it why involve 8 other people? The painful problem with conspiracy nus is that they cannot explain the mechanics of their conspiracy.

It's like controlled demo at the WTC, or a missile into the Pentagon. The legistics for each theory are mind-boggling, and each would leave a clear, easy to follow trial back to the conspiritors themselves.

 
At 14 June, 2011 19:46, Blogger Ian said...

WAQo, the fact that they scrapped the plane-into-Pentagon scenario as "unrealistic" suggests that the fact that they put on the plane-into-WTC simulation as realistic.

Al Qaeda's Project Bojinka plot to crash hijacked airliners into the WTC, Sears Tower, the Pentagon, and other landmark buildings had been known since 1995.


Brian, there's an actual interesting discussion going on between Pat and Guitar Bill. Please take your dumbspam elsewhere.

 
At 14 June, 2011 19:51, Blogger Track said...

I don't get the satisfaction with the secrecy. Do you enjoy all the excessive classification, fearmongering, exploitation, etc.? Do you like the way government officials rub the public's face in 9/11 all the time and then act indignant when anyone dares to object to the CYA garbage excuses?

This site went from criticizing SLC to objecting to any questioning of the government in relation to 9/11.

 
At 14 June, 2011 20:18, Blogger Max said...

"This site went from criticizing SLC to objecting to any questioning of the government in relation to 9/11"

yawn....ten years and you have NOTHING.

That is the exact same amount you would have if you would have not wasted a minute with your massive amounts of bullshit.

 
At 14 June, 2011 20:21, Blogger GuitarBill said...

Ian wrote, "...Brian, there's an actual interesting discussion going on between Pat and Guitar Bill. Please take your dumbspam elsewhere."

This is precisely why I want to see the goat fucker banned from SLC. As long as he's allowed to spew long ago debunked troofer propaganda there can be no debate at SLC. The goat fucker's propaganda, moreover, isn't designed to stir debate, it's designed TO END THE DEBATE.

In fact, I often wonder if the goat fucker isn't a Republican (He admitted to being an alleged "former Republican"). After all, there's nothing the Republican Party fears more than a real, substantive debate centered around Bush's failed counterterrorism policy. Instead we're stuck chasing the goat fucker's stupid conspiracy theories and red herrings from one end of SLC to the other.

It's a shame because we could have a real debate about 9/11; instead we're mired in stupidity masquerading as an all-inclusive debate policy.

 
At 14 June, 2011 20:24, Blogger Pat said...

If Bush was so concerned about bin Laden, why did counterterrorism take a backseat to "other priorities"?

Because it was prior to 9-11. It's fine to say that counter-terrorism should have been the first priority on 9-10, but it largely wasn't on anybody's radar with the exception of people like John O'Neill and Ric Rescorla.

How many questions about terrorism were there in the Bush/Gore debates in 2000? Here are the transcripts:

http://www.debates.org/index.php?page=october-3-2000-transcript

http://www.debates.org/index.php?page=october-11-2000-debate-transcript

http://www.debates.org/index.php?page=october-17-2000-debate-transcript

Not a single question dedicated to terrorism. Gore does mention it briefly in the third debate:

"In the Congress, in the House of Representatives, I served on the House Intelligence Committee and I worked hard to learn the subject of nuclear arms control and how we can diffuse these tensions and deal with non-proliferation and deal with the problems of terrorism and these new weapons of mass destruction."

 
At 14 June, 2011 21:08, Blogger M Gregory Ferris said...

Track said...
"I don't get the satisfaction with the secrecy. Do you enjoy all the excessive classification, fearmongering, exploitation, etc.? Do you like the way government officials rub the public's face in 9/11 all the time and then act indignant when anyone dares to object to the CYA garbage excuses?"

Okay, let's talk about the secrecy for a sec. I will direct you to Wikileaks. Hundreds of thousands of military and diplomatic secrets exposed, what did we learn? Where are the lies people like you assume were there? How did any of the details change the over-all story/history?

My question to you is why do you care about the secrecy?

Define fearmongering because either terrorism is real or it's not.

As far as rubbing our faces in 9/11 nobody gets away with that. Americans do have a short attention spans, and they need to be reminded.

It's thinking like yours that caused 9/11, and I think it's good that you remind us of how painfully naive Americans were before 9/11. Every security failure can be traced back to someone who thought like you do now.

 
At 14 June, 2011 21:09, Blogger snug.bug said...

MGF, if NORAD's radars only pointed outward, then how come Major Kevin Nasypany told Vanity Fair that the problem was that the radars showed every airplane in the sky and there were too many blips?

NORAD put on the airplane-into-WTC drill, so apparently they thought the scenario was realistic.

GutterBall I have never been a Republican.

Pat, counterterrorism was definitely on Richard Clarke's radar, George Tenet's, Richard Blee's, Sandy Berger's, Cofer Black's. Cofer Black said that as far as warning Condi "We did everything but pull the trigger to the gun we were holding to her head." A task force on the order of what Clinton did before the Millenium LAX plot would have broken down the walls between Scheuer's unit and Able Danger and the FBI.

 
At 14 June, 2011 21:14, Blogger Richard Gage's Testicles said...

WAQo, the fact that they scrapped the plane-into-Pentagon scenario as "unrealistic" suggests that the fact that they put on the plane-into-WTC simulation as realistic.

You're confusing "realistic" with "foreseeable".

 
At 14 June, 2011 21:59, Blogger Dave Kyte said...

"MGF, if NORAD's radars only pointed outward, then how come Major Kevin Nasypany told Vanity Fair that the problem was that the radars showed every airplane in the sky and there were too many blips?"

That because Moron, over the US on any given day there are thousands of aircraft, NORAD does not pay them much attention because they are under the control of the FAA. NORAD looks outward for any suspicious fast moving aircraft or missiles ONLY. Until the FAA ask NORAD to help NORAD has no reason to look at these blips. If you were not so hopelessly stupid you would know this simple fact.

 
At 14 June, 2011 22:07, Blogger Dave Kyte said...

"They threw Oswalds rifle behind the boxes on the sixth floor and his fate was sealed."

Yeah, and then let him walk out of the building, to shoot another cop and then to be taken alive just to be shot himself my a man (Ruby) who was so dedicated he kept quiet to his death. Instead of killing Oswald right there on the spot rifle in hand in a set-up shoot out with the CIA. Yeah that one makes lot of sense but conspiracy theorist type can't think worth shit.

 
At 14 June, 2011 22:56, Blogger snug.bug said...

DK, FAA did ask NORAD for help. MGF seemed to think that NORAD has no capability to see aircraft in domestic airspace--which is not surprising, because Popular Mechanics said it was so.

RGT, the Project Bojinka plot had been known since 1995. Certainly the attacks were forseeable. The CIA knew that two al Qaeda agents, Nawaf al Hazmi and Khalid al Mihdhar, were here in the USA. According to Bob Woodward, they bought ten airline tickets dated 9/11/01.

 
At 15 June, 2011 01:33, Blogger paul w said...

Ban.

As much as I appreciate the desire for freedom of speech here, this man continues to plague the blog with repeated idiotic comments.

Did you note how quiet it was the first few posts after Brian's semi-ban?

Now, he's back, and it's full steam ahead, as usual.

He'll go back to annoying the truthers.

Fine by me. They deserve him.

 
At 15 June, 2011 07:18, Blogger Dave Kyte said...

"DK, FAA did ask NORAD for help."

And NORAD had at the most only 8 minutes warning before aircraft hit their targets. Nowhere near enough time to find and intercept planes with their transponders turned off in a sea of blips.

But you wouldn't know that being a retarded janitor type.

The meat of the issue is your and all the other truthers lack of knowledge and inborn intelligence. You never see an intelligent truther only guys like you. Why is that?

 
At 15 June, 2011 07:30, Blogger Dave Kyte said...

"Did you note how quiet it was the first few posts after Brian's semi-ban?"

Well yes, because people like Brian are the last vestige of truthers, Delusional low IQ idiots who bought the conspiracy theorist con and are not bright enough to see how wrong they are. The smarter one left long ago or at least smart enough to know they should keep their silly ideas to themselves. You will never see Brian debate in public because you would clearly see he is a mentally challenge 60 year old, someone to pity, not to take seriously, unlike the rest of us here who tower over the poor simpleton.

 
At 15 June, 2011 07:50, Blogger Dave Kyte said...

You will note conspiracy theorist don't make comment of fact, or even logical observations. they ask questions, a common tactic of conspiracy theorist who don't have any facts to back up their claims. They forget the fact questions mean nothing only the questioner is deficient in knowledge, an all common thing with truthers.

And of course all their questions have been answered time and time again, but they continue with the questions because that is all they got. It's not designed to find knowledge but to wear down the people who do have the answers. Just like a child who has learned asking "Why Daddy??" over and over can often get a parent to relent.

So I feel any comment Brian make here as a question should be disregarded. You have a petulant man/child here who thinks he is making a point. It fools no one but the foolish.

 
At 15 June, 2011 09:12, Blogger snug.bug said...

Paul w, what exactly is idiotic about pointing out that though Popular Mechanics told everyone that NORAD's radars couldn't pick up the hijacked planes because NORAD's radars looked outward, that Major Nasypany claimed that NORAD's radars couldn't find the planes because they saw every plane in the skies in the USA?

Is "quiet" a good thing on a blog?

DK, Laura Brown said the FAA-DoD phone bridge set up before 9:00 kept the DoD informed of all the planes of interest.

If you would bother to read the VF article you would see that the F-15 pilots from Otis were informed of flight 11's location when it was 35 miles north of the WTC.

 
At 15 June, 2011 11:28, Blogger WhyAskQuestions said...

WAQo, the fact that they scrapped the plane-into-Pentagon scenario as "unrealistic" suggests that the fact that they put on the plane-into-WTC simulation as realistic.

Brian, there's nothing "unrealistic" like a plane aimed at a target. The Japanese used Kamikazi attacks on U.S. Naval ships in the Pacific. Your claim of a "plane-into-WTC simulation" wasn't a simulation. Witnesses around Manhatten saw and heard 2 planes and saw them fly into both Towers. You weren't there, they were so I'll take their word over your insanity anyday of the week you goat fucker.

 
At 15 June, 2011 12:01, Blogger snug.bug said...

WAQo, the quality of your responses would be much improved if you would read the posts to which you are responding before you comment.

 
At 15 June, 2011 12:01, Blogger WhyAskQuestions said...

NORAD's radars couldn't pick up the hijacked planes......

What a fucking lying goat fucker you are Brian.

During WWII they could pick up planes on CONVENTIONAL RADAR. Back then they didn't have FDR's to indicate what plane it was on radar. So don't you fucking dare say that they couldn't pick up the planes. You don't know shit about history Brian, that's your downfall.

 
At 15 June, 2011 12:03, Blogger WhyAskQuestions said...

WAQo, the quality of your responses would be much improved if you would read the posts to which you are responding before you comment.

You have alot of room to talk. You should have evidence to match your retarded facts you jackass. You provide these silly "facts" with no evidence to prove them true. You don't provide sources for your claims.

YOU ARE PATHETIC AT RESEARCHING!

 
At 15 June, 2011 12:06, Blogger Pat said...

I defy anyone to match up Richard Clarke's timeline on 9-11 with the actual facts. And Sandy Berger was so concerned about terrorism that he stole documents from the national archives so that the 9-11 Commission couldn't see them. George Tenet's the one person who should have been fired after 9-11.

 
At 15 June, 2011 12:12, Blogger WhyAskQuestions said...

Pat, that kind of sounds like the warnings the U.S. Navy got before Pearl Harbor that went ignored.

Take my hometown for example, Johnstown, PA. On May 31, 1889 the South Fork Dam broke, sending 20 million tons of water down the valley into the city, killing 2,209 people. Those people were warned long ago that the possibly of a dam break could happen, they were warned that day in May, 3 times.

This gets me thinking about the "The Little Boy Who Cried Wolf"

 
At 15 June, 2011 13:15, Blogger Dave Kyte said...

"Within minutes after the first aircraft hit the World Trade Center, the FAA immediately established several phone bridges that included FAA field facilities, the FAA command center, FAA headquarters, DOD, the Secret Service and other government agencies"

You will note this is AFTER the first plane hit. So Brian is a moron.

 
At 15 June, 2011 13:17, Blogger Dave Kyte said...

So you have this janitor level moron who doesn’t know the difference between primary and secondary radar.

 
At 15 June, 2011 13:55, Blogger M Gregory Ferris said...

"snug.bug said...
Paul w, what exactly is idiotic about pointing out that though Popular Mechanics told everyone that NORAD's radars couldn't pick up the hijacked planes because NORAD's radars looked outward, that Major Nasypany claimed that NORAD's radars couldn't find the planes because they saw every plane in the skies in the USA?"

This quote is a prime example of your brain damage/mental illness. In the course of trying to debate you actaully undermine your theory that NORAD was tracking the planes and knew where they were. NORAD did see every plane in the sky- THEY JUST COULDN'T IDENTIFY THEM. The FAA at one point thought that there were many more hijacked jets than the four actual. So between not being able to identify the planes, not having enough alert fighters, and not knowing which aircraft were hijacked it is clear why no interceptions were made.

You cited a USA Today article that says thet you are full of shit, and explains why NORAD didn't intercept. Only a mentally ill person does this. Get help.

 
At 15 June, 2011 14:23, Blogger snug.bug said...

DK, I know the difference between primary and secondary radar. Pray tell, how many transponderless blips were traveling down the Hudson at 600 mph?

MGF, Pray tell, how many transponderless blips were traveling down the Hudson at 600 mph? Your argument is as absurd as claiming they couldn't recognize King Kong because he was wearing a mask.

Where did the USAToday article say I was full of shit?





 
At 15 June, 2011 14:35, Blogger M Gregory Ferris said...

"A task force on the order of what Clinton did before the Millenium LAX plot would have broken down the walls between Scheuer's unit and Able Danger and the FBI."

Oh Brian, you are so fucking stupid. Just stop talking already.

First, a task force didn't prevent the Millinium Bombing, an aleart customs agent did:


http://www.globalsecurity.org/security/ops/millenium-plot.htm

"On December 14, 1999, Ressam drove his rental car onto the ferry from Victoria, Canada, to Port Angeles,Washington. Ressam planned to drive to Seattle and meet Meskini, with whom he would travel to Los Angeles and case LAX. They planned to detonate the bomb on or around January 1, 2000. At the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) preinspection station in Victoria, Ressam presented officials with his genuine but fraudulently obtained Canadian passport, from which he had torn the Afghanistan entry and exit stamps.The INS agent on duty ran the passport through a variety of databases but, since it was not in Ressam’s name, he did not pick up the pending Canadian arrest warrants. After a cursory examination of Ressam’s car, the INS agents allowed Ressam to board the ferry. Late in the afternoon of December 14, Ressam arrived in Port Angeles. He waited for all the other cars to depart the ferry, assuming (incorrectly) that the last car off would draw less scrutiny. Customs officers assigned to the port, noticing Ressam’s nervousness, referred him to secondary inspection. When asked for additional identification, Ressam handed the Customs agent a Price Costco membership card in the same false name as his passport. As that agent began an initial pat-down, Ressam panicked and tried to run away."

Then you are always squealing about the errosion of civil rights and the Constitution, but then you turn around and advocate doing away with Posse Comitatus. Able Danger was a U.S. Army intelligence terror think-tank. The US Army cannot conduct operations within CONUS, the US Army cannot collect intelligence within CONUS. They go to prison if they do.

Make up your mind, Brian, either you want to live in a police state or you don't. I suspect you do, just one that agrees with you insane vision of the world.

 
At 15 June, 2011 14:59, Blogger Richard Gage's Testicles said...

RGT, the Project Bojinka plot had been known since 1995. Certainly the attacks were forseeable.

No. You're confused about the whole conceivable/foreseeable/predictable spectrum. Sunsets are predictable. Earthquakes are not predictable, but they are foreseeable -- they've happened before and will happen again. Terrorists hijacking domestic flights to use as weapons might have been conceivable in 2001, based on Bojinka, but not foreseeable. You have a bad case of after-the-fact reasoning.

 
At 15 June, 2011 15:29, Blogger Dave Kyte said...

DK, I know the difference between primary and secondary radar. Pray tell, how many transponderless blips were traveling down the Hudson at 600 mph?

Brian you know nothing except how to mop floors. Al you know I have had to teach you. You see this is exactly why you are a proven low thinking moron. as if NORAD had time to track one of many blips on a screen to calculate its speed. And mind you as has been proven they only had 8 minutes to do all this, at the most, they had no time to find the second WTC aircraft.

So the question still remains, why are you so lacking in normal thinking ability? Still at your age ONLY at janitorial skill level? I say it is because you are a mental defective, that is why you will not debate in public, your metal retardation would become obvious to anyone who saw you.

 
At 15 June, 2011 15:34, Blogger Dave Kyte said...

"You have a bad case of after-the-fact reasoning."

Well yeah, that is the level of poor retarded Brian's thinking ability, You would never give an idiot like him a job where making logical critical decisions is important. Show the poor loser how to sweep a floor and he may get it after a couple of tries.

 
At 15 June, 2011 16:12, Blogger Dylan Unsavery said...

Brian said

Al Qaeda's Project Bojinka plot to crash hijacked airliners into the WTC, Sears Tower, the Pentagon, and other landmark buildings had been known since 1995.


No, Brian. Bojinka involved blowing up planes over the Pacific Ocean with no hijacking involved. Why are you lying about this?

 
At 16 June, 2011 00:18, Blogger snug.bug said...

MGF, your naive belief that a plucky customs agent brought down Ahmed Ressam would be quite touching were it not so dumb. Naturally intel agencies are reluctant to expose their methods and persons, and so they create cover stories. So why do you think Mr. Ressam was sweating bullets? Because intel agents in Canada were making him nervous! The same techniques could have been applied to the alleged hijackers before 9/11 and caused them to abort the job.

RGT, there were warnings from 13 foreign countries. 6 of them involved attacks on airliners or airlines.

DK, so you think NORAD is not smart enough to pick out a 600 mph blip compared to all their 100 mph blips?

Dylan Unsavory, if you would bother to do a little bit of research you would find that Project Bojinka involved crashing hijacked airliners into landmark buildings such as the WTV, TransAmerica Pyramid, Sears Tower, and the Pentagon.

 
At 16 June, 2011 04:06, Blogger Dylan Unsavery said...

Are you Peter Lance fan, Brian? Are you aware that he has said this:

"It should be noted that the detailed intelligence from Col. Mendoza was for a plot involving the hijacking of airliners that was completely distinct from the Bojinka plot in which Yousef, KSM, Murad and a 4th conspirator, Wali Kahn Amin Shah, planned to plant Casio watch powered-nitroglycerine bomb triggers aboard up to a dozens U.S. jumbo jets exiting Asia with U.S. tourists."

 
At 16 June, 2011 05:07, Blogger Richard Gage's Testicles said...

RGT, there were warnings from 13 foreign countries. 6 of them involved attacks on airliners or airlines.

None of that was actionable. It did not address dates, times, names, or places. Most of it did not even mention aircraft.

 
At 16 June, 2011 07:41, Blogger Dave Kyte said...

"DK, so you think NORAD is not smart enough to pick out a 600 mph blip compared to all their 100 mph blips?"

Proving once again you know nothing on any subject outside of janitorial work. To track an aircraft you need to decide which blip is of interest among a sea of blips, plot it location at one time and then plot it again later and calculate its speed. And all this in the short 8 minutes warning they had. Also these planes had flown out of Boston not NY.

So the question still remains, why are you so stupid at your age? Why are you such a useless individual?

 
At 16 June, 2011 10:16, Blogger snug.bug said...

DU, yes it's true that the USA Landmark Buildings plot was different from the Casio time-bomb plot. So what? Project Bojinka involved both the Casio bombs and the landmark hijackings, and you are taking Lance's quote out of context.

RGT--al Hazmi and al Mihdhar bought 10 airline tickets for 9/11/01. They were known to the CIA as al Qaeda assets who were inside the USA. They had been using their cell phone to call an al Qaeda communications hub in Yemen that was monitored separately by both the CIA and the NSA, and was subject to planted audio bugs as well. Able Danger had identified Mohammed Atta, who was operating quite openly.

DK, how many blips on NORAD's screens were moving at 600 mph but did not have transponders? Do you have any actual arguments other than personal attack? And even if your tuner meet in Peru was so gosh-darned important that you couldn't attend Gage's talk, you could have at least sicced a couple of mean engineers on him, couldn't you? Why didn't you?

 
At 16 June, 2011 11:28, Blogger Richard Gage's Testicles said...

RGT--al Hazmi and al Mihdhar bought 10 airline tickets for 9/11/01. They were known to the CIA as al Qaeda assets who were inside the USA. They had been using their cell phone to call an al Qaeda communications hub in Yemen that was monitored separately by both the CIA and the NSA, and was subject to planted audio bugs as well.

Meaning what? Don't expect me to connect dots just because you're connecting them. What should have happened based on that information? Arrests? Deportation? Surveillance? Assassination? Of whom, by whom and on what legal basis?

Able Danger had identified Mohammed Atta, who was operating quite openly.

Not true. Curt Weldon thought he remembered seeing Atta on an Able Danger list at one time. He's the origin of that myth. Atta went by some other name during that period anyway, and wouldn't have appeared as Mohammed Atta.

 
At 16 June, 2011 14:14, Blogger M Gregory Ferris said...

"MGF, your naive belief that a plucky customs agent brought down Ahmed Ressam would be quite touching were it not so dumb. Naturally intel agencies are reluctant to expose their methods and persons, and so they create cover stories."

Bullshit.

You just can't handle the fact that a woman caught a terrorist because she was doing her job. A job you are unqualified to ever do. The Customs agents thought he was smuggling drugs, and were not expecting explosives.

Once a again you lie. You have fabricated a secret operation that has never been mentioned once in 12 years in spite of all of the terror-related FOIA by every major newspaper. Yet a sexual deviant janitor knows all about it.

"DK, so you think NORAD is not smart enough to pick out a 600 mph blip compared to all their 100 mph blips? "

The average take-off speed (that is the speed required for the plane to leave the ground - I add this because of your inability to grasp basic physics) is 150mph. The cruising speed for commercial jets runs between 300mph to 500mph depending on type and altitude.

So now we have to add basics of flight to the list of things you do not understand.

 
At 16 June, 2011 14:37, Blogger Dave Kyte said...

"DK, how many blips on NORAD's screens were moving at 600 mph but did not have transponders? Do you have any actual arguments other than personal attack? "

Thank you for proving your inborn stupidity once again. ALL the blips on a primary radar would show no transponder signal, that is how that radar works you ignorant dolt. NORAD does not look for transponder aircraft because DUH, attack aircraft DO NOT use transponders. And you claim you know how radar works, Yeah Right.

So again I ask why do you have such a low IQ? Not enough oxygen at birth? I bet your IQ is at Idiot level Right?

And Gage knows where I am, and I have proven him to be a lying sake of shit so why won't he debate me here? (got that from you Brian). Hell he even had to ban me from his FaceBook page because I was punking him so bad there. Low Life coward that he is.

 
At 16 June, 2011 16:08, Blogger snug.bug said...

DK, what should have happened? You really need it spelled out? How about if they're hauled in for questioning about the USS Cole bombing? Al Mihdhar had lived in the al Qaeda safehouse in Yemen in the summer of 2000, and he was in Yemen at the time of the Cole bombing.

How about if some hoo-hah about their visas is cooked up?

How about if they suddenly receive attention from very aggressive panhandlers who seem to know a lot about them? You think they couldn't be spooked enough so they'd leave the country and abandon the mission?

Five witnesses say Able Danger had identified Atta either by name or by photograph.

MGF, so you think covert ops don't avoid identifying their persons and methods? You really need to get away from Monterey Bay.

Flight 11 was flying at 600 mph.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14754701/

Cruising speed at 30,000 feet has nothing to do with takeoff speed at sea level.

DK, military aircraft do use transponders in the IFF system. How many primary targets did NORAD have flying down the Hudson River at 600 mph?

It's a hoot when you guys try to act smart.

 
At 16 June, 2011 16:32, Blogger snug.bug said...

LOL, DK. Well, it's always difficult to find a possible time for two busy professionals, but maybe we can set up a debate between you and Gage sometime when he's not in Europe and you're not in Indiana.

 
At 16 June, 2011 16:59, Blogger paul w said...

Ian, the Madrid tower was concrete and the collapse was only partial.

Brian, does this mean you now accept the steel framed section of the building collapsed due to fire?

 
At 16 June, 2011 17:47, Blogger Dave Kyte said...

"DK, military aircraft do use transponders in the IFF system. How many primary targets did NORAD have flying down the Hudson River at 600 mph?"

I see you mentally challenge brain still doesn't get it. Typical of a Know Nothing like you. NORAD doesn't even look at aircraft with transponder military or not, they look outward for anything that looks like a threat form outside the US. Get it? So to keep asking your simpleton question is, well the act of a simpleton. you 80 IQ will never get it.

I can see why people would only hire you to clean toilets, anything beyond that is out side your ability to grasp.

 
At 16 June, 2011 17:53, Blogger Dave Kyte said...

"maybe we can set up a debate between you and Gage sometime when he's not in Europe and you're not in Indiana."

By all means, I doubt he would do it and chicken out with some lame excuse like you did, Imaging his embarrassment getting kicked around buy a Non-architect nobody. So long as it doesn't cost me any out of pocket money I have the time, but Gage hasn’t the guts, just like you.

 
At 16 June, 2011 17:56, Blogger Dave Kyte said...

"It's a hoot when you guys try to act smart."

Well unlike you we can do more than clean toilets and sponge off mom and dad.

 
At 16 June, 2011 18:21, Blogger Dave Kyte said...

FACTS ABOUT NORAD on 9/11

They had a maximum 9 minutes advanced notice of the first jacking of American Airlines Flight 11

They were notified about United Airlines Flight 175 at 9:03 AM, the same time that it crashed into the South Tower of the World Trade Center

They had fourteen minutes advance notice of American Airlines Flight 77

They were notified about United Airlines Flight 93 at 10:07 AM, after it had already crashed.

Now apparently janitors think that in this short amount of time aircraft can be spotted, tracked on primary radar, and magically fighter jet can find them too and shoot them down not even knowing why the jets are off course. All this is the raving of a person with the mental capacity to a 6 year old. Its easy to be a truther when you are so devoid of intelligence and knowledge.

 
At 16 June, 2011 18:30, Blogger Richard Gage's Testicles said...

[RGT], what should have happened? You really need it spelled out? How about if they're hauled in for questioning about the USS Cole bombing?

Prior to September 2001, no agency had both knowledge of their whereabouts and jurisdiction to haul them in.

Al Mihdhar had lived in the al Qaeda safehouse in Yemen in the summer of 2000, and he was in Yemen at the time of the Cole bombing.

That's no reason to haul him in. There's nothing illegal about having friends who blow things up. We had civil rights in the Pre-9/11 World, remember?

How about if some hoo-hah about their visas is cooked up?

Harass them? For what reason? Being Arab?

How about if they suddenly receive attention from very aggressive panhandlers who seem to know a lot about them? You think they couldn't be spooked enough so they'd leave the country and abandon the mission?

Oh, brilliant. Think of the lives that could have been saved by Operation I Need About $3.50.

Seriously snug, I don't think you're a janitor. What do you really do?

 
At 16 June, 2011 21:45, Blogger snug.bug said...

DK, if NORAD looks outward, then why was Major Nasypany complaining that they couldn't find the airliners because they were needles in a haystack?

It's only in your dreams that you're kicking any asses. You're too ignorant to realize that you don't have an education and you don't know what you're talking about.

Even if it were true that NORAD only had 6 minutes notice about flight 11, what about flights 175, 77, and 93? Why was there no air defense for 100 minutes?

RGT, the FBI was investigating the USS Cole bombing and had jurisdiction to haul witnesses and suspects for questioning.

Al Mihdhar was a known agent of al Qaeda. He could be questioned as a material witness. It's not a matter of harassing them for being Arabm, but for being members of a group that was believed to have attacked the African embassies and the USS Cole.

You think Operation "I-need-$3.50-and-how-did-your-mom's-surgery-go-last-week" couldn't have spooked them so they aborted the mission?

 
At 17 June, 2011 03:08, Blogger Richard Gage's Testicles said...

RGT, the FBI was investigating the USS Cole bombing and had jurisdiction to haul witnesses and suspects for questioning.

The FBI had jurisdiction, but no info about their movements. The CIA watched their movements, but could not arrest them.

You think Operation "I-need-$3.50-and-how-did-your-mom's-surgery-go-last-week" couldn't have spooked them so they aborted the mission?

Nobody knew they were on a mission. In early September 2001 they were just questionable characters. And that harassment plan is a cute idea, but is there precedent for it? Would it be legal? Does it work outside of small towns in movies?

What do you do, snug? You've got a certain amount of reasoning ability, which you're wasting on these Troof guys.

 
At 17 June, 2011 10:32, Blogger snug.bug said...

RGT, actually FBI agents Doug Miller and Mark Rossini knew that al Mihdhar and al Hazmi were in the country, but they were prohibited by their supervisor from telling other FBI personnel about it. The FBI's Margaret Gillespie informed her FBI colleague Dina Corsi about them in late August. AlHazmi and alMihdhar were placed on the TIPOFF watch list on August 23 and could have been located, because both were using credit cards. AlMihdhar's visa was then revoked, and alHazmi's had already expired, so both of them could have been arrested. AlMihdhar had lied on his visa application and a criminal investigation for visa fraud was justified.

What kind of idiot would believe that the USA has no legal power to arrest known foreign agents of a known terrorist organization inside its own country? And this state of affairs arose just how? Because Clinton was diddling Monica?

They weren't just "questionable characters". They were known members of al Qaeda, they had visa violations, "the system was blinking red", and they bought 10 airline tickets for 9/11/01.

And as to the viability of the harassment plan, why do you think they call them "spooks"?

 
At 17 June, 2011 11:03, Blogger GuitarBill said...

RTG wrote, "...What do you do, snug? You've got a certain amount of reasoning ability, which you're wasting on these Troof guys."

BS! The goat fucker has a head like sieve--which explains why he's incapable of learning.

 
At 17 June, 2011 12:28, Blogger Richard Gage's Testicles said...

RGT, actually FBI agents Doug Miller and Mark Rossini knew that al Mihdhar and al Hazmi were in the country...

The FBI did not know. They were not permitted to know, or to find out. That's how the system worked in 2001. It doesn't matter that a handful may have known something they weren't legally permitted to act on.

What kind of idiot would believe that the USA has no legal power to arrest known foreign agents of a known terrorist organization inside its own country?

The feds could have come up with some grounds to bring them in, sure. Particularly if there was knowledge of the upcoming attack. But there wasn't. Being on a watchlist isn't the same thing as being a suspect.

They weren't just "questionable characters". They were known members of al Qaeda, they had visa violations, "the system was blinking red", and they bought 10 airline tickets for 9/11/01.

Hindsight. In every case, you're just connecting dots after-the-fact. Of course that would raise suspicions now, but not in 2001. Did you spend the late 90's smoking a lot of weed? Your memory is bad.

So anyway, what do you do?

 
At 17 June, 2011 12:37, Blogger Richard Gage's Testicles said...

BS! The goat fucker has a head like sieve--which explains why he's incapable of learning.

I disagree. He's memorized a dizzying array of verifiable facts about 9/11. He just derives bizarre meaning from them.

I believe if snug could get over his basic mental stumbling block -- a fixation with inconsistencies -- he'd stop being a Troofer. He needs to learn that sometimes shit just happens.

 
At 17 June, 2011 12:54, Blogger GuitarBill said...

Yeah, troofers are almost always up on the minutiae, but they consistently miss the big picture.

The ability to memorize vast amounts of minutiae, however, is no substitute for the ability to analyze the data and come to a reasonable conclusion. And that's the problem.

 
At 17 June, 2011 14:01, Blogger M Gregory Ferris said...

"MGF, so you think covert ops don't avoid identifying their persons and methods? You really need to get away from Monterey Bay."

And go to Palo Alto, where you all are experts in covert operations?

It wasn't a covert op, the Customs Agents just trusted their judgement, nothing more and nothing less. It wasn't some super secret voodoo operation, I know this because you think it was. This is unshakeable logic.

"
Cruising speed at 30,000 feet has nothing to do with takeoff speed at sea leve'"

No transponder, no way of knowing altitude, no way identifying the aircraft in the few minutes between the call from the FAA until they got the first F-15 in the air.

You fail again.

"What kind of idiot would believe that the USA has no legal power to arrest known foreign agents of a known terrorist organization inside its own country?"

Learning to fly commercial jets is not a crime. Without probably cause the FBI couldn't act. That's why they needed the Patriot Act, so they could just arrest suspicious foreign nationals at will, without warrent, and hold them as long as they needed to. But you're against the Patriot Act, so why are you insisting it was okay for the FBI to use tactics that would have been illegal before 2001?

What kind of idiot indeed...

 
At 17 June, 2011 14:20, Blogger snug.bug said...

RGT, I guess you didn't read my post. The FBI's Margaret Gillespie informed her FBI colleague Dina Corsi about alMihdhar and alHazmi in late August. The FBI launched an investigation but it was an intelligence investigation done by one inexperienced guy--the full-scale criminal investigation that some in the FBI wanted (and which would have soon uncovered the ties to the other alleged hijackers) was not done.

Al Hazmi and al Mihdhar both had visa violations and were both known at the time to be al Qaeda assets. The USA had not yet responded to the USS Cole attack in any way, and al Mihdhar had been in Yemen at the time of that attack.

The story about the Chinese Wall was just a fairy tale by propagandists to place the blame for intelligence failures on Jamie Gorelick. James Bamford says that the law not only allowed the CIA to share information with the FBI, but in this case it obligated them to.

MGF, clearly an airliner traveling at 600 mph is at high altitude. At a lower altitude it couldn't fly that fast.

Nobody would propose that the alleged terrorists be arrested for going to flight school. Obviously there were grounds to question them about their membership in al Qaeda and their visa violations. No need for the Patriot Act. Only for the security apparatus to use the tools they already had.

Clearly you create your reality to match your ideology rather than the other way around.

 
At 17 June, 2011 20:09, Blogger M Gregory Ferris said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

 
At 17 June, 2011 20:13, Blogger M Gregory Ferris said...

"MGF, clearly an airliner traveling at 600 mph is at high altitude. At a lower altitude it couldn't fly that fast."

You are the one who said it was flying down the Hudson at 600mph, so make up your painfully damaged mind.

"Nobody would propose that the alleged terrorists be arrested for going to flight school. Obviously there were grounds to question them about their membership in al Qaeda and their visa violations. "

Yeah, and they would have either lied to the FBI, or took the fifth before leaving the US. Al Qaeda would have just sent replacements and put off the strike for a while.

"The story about the Chinese Wall was just a fairy tale by propagandists to place the blame for intelligence failures on Jamie Gorelick"

Gorelick deserves all the blame. If troofers need a smoking gun for intel failures they need to look into the stupidity she was slinging. There was what her rule stated and what was implied, and what was implied was that if the CIA strayed into domestic surveilence people would go to prison. At the same time this came down the CIA was being investigated by the FBI for security breaches, this created a toxic relationship at the exact worst time.

 
At 18 June, 2011 02:24, Blogger Richard Gage's Testicles said...

RGT, I guess you didn't read my post.

I did, but it didn't contain much noteworthy. Just more dots and insinuations.

The story about the Chinese Wall was just a fairy tale by propagandists to place the blame for intelligence failures on Jamie Gorelick.

Oh, rubbish. Not even Gorelick denies the existence of the wall. I don't doubt that things frequently made improper jumps, that's hardly the same as the wall not being real.

James Bamford says that the law not only allowed the CIA to share information with the FBI, but in this case it obligated them to.

Bamford's entitled to his opinion. It would be interesting to know what he's basing that on, though. I imagine it's more hindsight-based reasoning.

 
At 18 June, 2011 17:56, Blogger snug.bug said...

MGF, I said flight 11 was flying down the Hudson River at 600 mph because msnbc said so, and I see no reason to believe it's not true.

How do you know what al Hazmi and al Mihdhar would have done if questioned by Ali Soufan? If they were threatened with charges as accessories to the USS Cole bombing, the 5th would not get them out of the country.

James Bamford says the laws not only permitted the CIA to share information about al Qaeda in the USA, it required them to. Of course the CIA, which wished not to share the information, finds it convenient to blame Ms. Gorelick. Bamford isn't buying it and neither should you.

 
At 18 June, 2011 18:15, Blogger Richard Gage's Testicles said...

James Bamford says the laws not only permitted the CIA to share information about al Qaeda in the USA, it required them to.

Right, my question is where he's finding that authority. "Required by law" only gets you so far unless you identify the law(s).

 
At 18 June, 2011 18:27, Blogger M Gregory Ferris said...

Comedy gold continues...

Brian writes this:

"MGF, I said flight 11 was flying down the Hudson River at 600 mph because msnbc said so, and I see no reason to believe it's not true."

But in his previous post he wrote this:

"MGF, clearly an airliner traveling at 600 mph is at high altitude. At a lower altitude it couldn't fly that fast."

This kind of stupid can give a fellow whiplash.

So many lies. So many lies that Brian confuses himself. Being a sociopath is a full time job.

 
At 18 June, 2011 18:40, Blogger snug.bug said...

MGF, what makes you think there's some contradiction between flying down the Hudson at 600 mph and the fact that at low altitudes airliners can't fly that fast?

 
At 18 June, 2011 18:53, Blogger Ian said...

Does anyone know where this "jetliners can't fly 600 mph at low altitude" stuff comes from? Is this just more stuff Brian has made up because he's never seen a plane land at 600 mph?

I suppose it is more difficult for a plane to travel fast at lower altitudes due to (uh oh) greater air resistance. You know, the thing that causes objects in free-fall to reach terminal velocity....

 
At 19 June, 2011 11:05, Blogger snug.bug said...

Maybe if you'd learn to google you wouldn't be so confused.

 
At 19 June, 2011 11:39, Blogger Ian said...

Maybe if you'd learn to google you wouldn't be so confused.

Hey, I just Googled "Brian Good sex stalker" and guess what I found?

I guess you must be a vicious sex stalker, Brian. Google told me so.

 
At 19 June, 2011 12:07, Blogger snug.bug said...

Ian, part of learning to google is learning to evaluate your sources critically.

If you google "Brian Good Sex Stalker" what you find is a blog by Dr. Kevin Barrett.

In the first section he reveals his bias by stating that Brian Good has been a royal pain in the ass for him. He then indulges in paranoid conspiracy theorizing in supposing that everyone criticizing his bigotry, habitual lying, and advocacy of violence must be me.

He then misattributes an insulting quote about me to John Bursill. John Bursill never said any such thing.

He then lies about his appearance on 50,000 watt KDKA radio, claiming that I'd invented the stupid statements he made there.

And finally he displays a long dialog alleged to have occurred between Brian Good and an anonymous internet poster called CBSF. He cites SLC as the source--but the dialog does not exist.

This measure of Barrett's scholarship makes clear why he was never offered a tenure-track position anywhere, and makes clear that you need to learn to google.

 
At 19 June, 2011 12:22, Blogger Ian said...

Ian, part of learning to google is learning to evaluate your sources critically.

Exactly. Richard Gage is a liar. David Ray Griffin is a liar. You are a liar, but Carol Brouillet is telling the truth.

Critical evaluation in action.

 
At 19 June, 2011 12:23, Blogger Ian said...

Also, we're not talking about Kevin Barrett, we're talking about you: a failed janitor who wears women's underwear and was banned from the truth movement for stalking people.

 
At 19 June, 2011 13:02, Blogger J Rebori said...

The cruising speeds of most of the large Boeing 7X7 planes are in the mid to high 500MPH speeds.

The Hudson river valley is a sizable chunk of the route from NYC to Montreal, and less but still sizable part of the route from NYC to Quebec.

Given those two facts, unless someone has proof otherwise, I would say the answer to snug's question about how many blips were moving at 600 mph down the Hudson River Valley was "most of them"

 
At 19 June, 2011 13:59, Blogger snug.bug said...

Ian, when you google "Brian Good sex stalker" you are talking about Kevin Barrett--because there is no other source for those goofy claims other than Barrett. Your inability to recognize that explains why your ideas are so goofy.

 
At 19 June, 2011 14:20, Blogger Ian said...

Ian, when you google "Brian Good sex stalker" you are talking about Kevin Barrett--because there is no other source for those goofy claims other than Barrett. Your inability to recognize that explains why your ideas are so goofy.

False, we're talking about you.

 
At 19 June, 2011 20:19, Blogger M Gregory Ferris said...

"Given those two facts, unless someone has proof otherwise, I would say the answer to snug's question about how many blips were moving at 600 mph down the Hudson River Valley was "most of them"
"
You are correct, Sir.

This is a classic Brian Goode train-wreck thread. He starts with citing a USA Today article that says that NORAD conducted drills that involved scenarios where hijacked jetliners targeted the WTC. The article then goes on to state that all of the attacks came from outside of the US, and the intercept was over the ocean.

Then when reminded that all the hijacked planes tuned off their transponders Brian unleashes his magic-radar rant, and that included this classic:

" if NORAD's radars only pointed outward, then how come Major Kevin Nasypany told Vanity Fair that the problem was that the radars showed every airplane in the sky and there were too many blips?"

Now the amazing thing here is that Brian actually answers the question of why NORAD didn't intercept any of the four planes on 9/11...but it's Brian. Later he adds this gem:

"Pray tell, how many transponderless blips were traveling down the Hudson at 600 mph?"

Followed by this ditty:

"DK, so you think NORAD is not smart enough to pick out a 600 mph blip compared to all their 100 mph blips? "

Later he posts these in a single post (he's in fire now):

"Flight 11 was flying at 600 mph.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14754701/

Cruising speed at 30,000 feet has nothing to do with takeoff speed at sea level.

DK, military aircraft do use transponders in the IFF system. How many primary targets did NORAD have flying down the Hudson River at 600 mph?"

Then he squeals out this"

"Even if it were true that NORAD only had 6 minutes notice about flight 11, what about flights 175, 77, and 93? Why was there no air defense for 100 minutes?"

As I have already pointed out, Brian has remarkably already answered his own question -("... Major Kevin Nasypany told Vanity Fair that the problem was that the radars showed every airplane in the sky and there were too many blips")

It is at this point that it is clear that Brian doesn't care about the facts nor the truth. Brian has a psychopathic need to win at any cost. Caught in a lie? Tell another one.

Back to the game...

Brian says:

"MGF, clearly an airliner traveling at 600 mph is at high altitude. At a lower altitude it couldn't fly that fast."

If he had a dick this is where he would have stepped on it.

I suggest reading the official NTSB reports from the National Security Achives. The have a solid 9/11 section there that explores US involvement in Afghanistan dating back to the Soviet invasion:

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB196/index.htm

Specifically for this discussion the flight data info for all four aircraft:

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB196/doc01.pdf

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB196/doc02.pdf

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB196/doc02.pdf

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB196/doc04.pdf

I deal in facts, as does SLC, and these are the facts. The last six minutes of the flight, AA11 was under 10,000 feet.


Now back to the comedy show:

"MGF, what makes you think there's some contradiction between flying down the Hudson at 600 mph and the fact that at low altitudes airliners can't fly that fast?"

See the contradiction is in Brian's head. He says that AA11 was flying down the Hudson at 600mph, then says that is was impossible.

To be fair, there are only estimates of the speed of either plane at time of impact, but the common estimate is 450 mph for AA11. 450mph is faster than 100mph last time I checked.

Brian is delusional. He clearly talks in circles here. At one point he answers his own question about why NORAD didn"t intercept any of the planes, yet he is clueless to this fact.

It is sad in so many ways.

 
At 19 June, 2011 21:04, Blogger snug.bug said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

 
At 19 June, 2011 21:32, Blogger snug.bug said...

MGF, I never said it was impossible for flight 11 to fly down the Hudson at 600 mph. I only said it was impossible to fly at 600 mph at sea level.

You posted on June 14 at 17:53:

"NORAD's radars point OUTWARD, not inside the US. You cannot intercept them if you can't see them. Duh."

Now you claim there were too many blips, so NORAD couldn't find the hijacked planes in a sea of blips.

You can't remember what you've posted from one day to the next. That's not sad, it's pathetic.

 
At 19 June, 2011 21:39, Blogger paul w said...

Shut up, goat fucker.*





*Copyright: GB, Triterope, and a cast of thousands.

 
At 19 June, 2011 22:50, Blogger snug.bug said...

Hmmm. Pardon a bit of plagiarism.

The basest of all things is to be afraid. Man is immortal, not because he alone among creatures has an inexhaustible voice, but because he has a soul, a spirit capable of compassion and sacrifice and endurance. The poet's, the writer's, duty is to write about these things. It is his privilege to help man endure by lifting his heart, by reminding him of the courage and honor and hope and pride and compassion and pity and sacrifice which have been the glory of his past. The poet's voice need not merely be the record of man, it can be one of the props, the pillars to help him endure and prevail.

 
At 20 June, 2011 09:34, Blogger WhyAskQuestions said...

MGF, I never said it was impossible for flight 11 to fly down the Hudson at 600 mph. I only said it was impossible to fly at 600 mph at sea level.

You said it's "impossible" for any plane to fly over 600 mph. Well this F-14 Tomcat sure as hell broke the sound barrier going over 768 mph:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-ADMJcMbdE&feature=related

Brian, you've just been proven that you're incompetent, an idiot and a lying douche bag goat fucker.

 
At 20 June, 2011 10:05, Blogger snug.bug said...

It's much easier for you to defeat an argument I never made than it is to refute facts, isn't it WAQo?

 
At 20 June, 2011 11:48, Blogger M Gregory Ferris said...

"The basest of all things is to be afraid. Man is immortal, not because he alone among creatures has an inexhaustible voice, but because he has a soul, a spirit capable of compassion and sacrifice and endurance. The poet's, the writer's, duty is to write about these things. It is his privilege to help man endure by lifting his heart, by reminding him of the courage and honor and hope and pride and compassion and pity and sacrifice which have been the glory of his past. The poet's voice need not merely be the record of man, it can be one of the props, the pillars to help him endure and prevail.
"

None of that applies to you, Brian.

You are affraid to debate Willie Rodriguez.

You are incapale of compassion and sacrafice. You soil the memories of those who died on 9/11, their families, and of heroes like Willie Rodriguez. Whenever you are asked to step up for your 9/11 troofer cause you reply that it is not your job.

You are neither a poet nor writer, and you only insult the bravery shown by people on 9/11. When we remind you of Willie's selfless bravery you insult him and call him a liar even though you were not there.

You are a hack and a coward. You need the world to be run by hacks and cowards so that you feel empowered, and that you fit in. That's why Rumsfeld running around to help carry stretchers enrages you, and that's why Willie Rodriguez boils your blood. You know that had you been in their shoes you would have run, or you would have frozen in placein a growing pool of your yellow essence.

When Pat bans you for good(e) you will not be missed.

 
At 20 June, 2011 12:04, Blogger WhyAskQuestions said...

It's much easier for you to defeat an argument I never made than it is to refute facts, isn't it WAQo?

Actually you did make a "fact" which is refutable using a video to show how fucking stupid you look. So yes, it's much easier to prove how stupid you truely are and I did just that.

You made a claim: I only said it was impossible to fly at 600 mph at sea level.

I presented a video showing how wrong you are: You said it's "impossible" for any plane to fly over 600 mph. Well this F-14 Tomcat sure as hell broke the sound barrier going over 768 mph:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-ADMJcMbdE&feature=related


REFUTED AND DEBUNKED! Now take your insanity elsewhere you goat fucker.

 
At 20 June, 2011 12:35, Blogger snug.bug said...

MGF, if you can't see that Willie R is a common con artist you're even dumber than I thought you were. You really really need to get away from Artichoke City and get some experience in the world.

Willie is a liar. I don't need to have been there to know that. His lies have been enormously destructive to the credibility of the truth movement, and cost us a good relationship with C-Span.

WAQo, we were talking about flight 11 flying at 600 mph. I said flight 11 could not fly that speed at sea level.

 
At 20 June, 2011 12:49, Blogger WhyAskQuestions said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

 
At 20 June, 2011 12:50, Blogger WhyAskQuestions said...

WAQo, we were talking about flight 11 flying at 600 mph. I said flight 11 could not fly that speed at sea level.

Brian, your lack of intelligence and research intriges me.

757's can fly low and fast:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gk6kiQ7GjA&feature=related

Again, you're a lying goat fucking idiot Brian.

 
At 20 June, 2011 12:52, Blogger WhyAskQuestions said...

Here's another video of a 757 flying low and fast:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vJliayH6co

Wrong again you goat fucker!

 
At 20 June, 2011 12:57, Blogger snug.bug said...

WAQo I never said a 767 can't fly fast. I said it couldn't fly 600 mph at sea level. You really need to find a hobby for which you have some aptitude. Have you considered needlework?

 
At 20 June, 2011 12:58, Blogger WhyAskQuestions said...

The only reason and known fact why planes fly low at sea level is because they're making a LANDING.

Flight 11 & 175 weren't landing, were they goat fucker? No, they weren't!

So go take your sorry ass excuse: flight 11 could not fly that speed at sea level. somewhere else and stop harasing people here who proved how God damn stupid & retarded you are.

You have no education Brian, no researching skills either. GET LOST!

 
At 20 June, 2011 12:59, Blogger WhyAskQuestions said...

I said it couldn't fly 600 mph at sea level.

This video alone proves how fucked up your thinking is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vJliayH6co

REFUTED AND DEBUNKED!

 
At 20 June, 2011 13:02, Blogger WhyAskQuestions said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

 
At 20 June, 2011 13:03, Blogger WhyAskQuestions said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

 
At 20 June, 2011 13:04, Blogger WhyAskQuestions said...

You really need to find a hobby for which you have some aptitude. Have you considered needlework?

I have 4 hobbies: Civil War RE-enacting (which is quite fun and educational), building models, fishing and motorcycling.

If you mean needlepoint, I've been there done that.

You need a hobby other than coming here and giving us a shit story about 9/11. Get the fuck off the computer and do something, like fishing.

PS: I had to correct some errors, twice of this posting.

 
At 20 June, 2011 14:53, Blogger paul w said...

Willie R is a common con artist...Willie is a liar.

Ban.

 
At 20 June, 2011 15:12, Blogger WhyAskQuestions said...

Check this out peeps:

http://www.911oz.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=8130

Brian's infatuation with goes beyond Kevin Barrett and Willie Rodriguez. OMG the stupid, it burns!

 
At 20 June, 2011 16:15, Blogger paul w said...

Check this out peeps:

That mob deserve him.

But, gotta luv this;

"you're a sick lunatic, Brian"

"Brian keeps attacking all those who he claims "make the movement look bad", yet Brian isn't even part of the "movement", and it appears everyone in the "movement" who comes in contact with Brian, wants nothing to do with him.

Brian is a delusional fraud and a sick lunatic."

 
At 20 June, 2011 16:18, Blogger WhyAskQuestions said...

Paul, those people are 100% correct about Brian.

I'd hate to be Brian right now! LMAO!

 
At 20 June, 2011 16:22, Blogger snug.bug said...

Paul w, I have proven that Willie is a liar and that his claims that he saved hundreds are fraudulent.

If you watch the 2002 doco "Anatomy of September 11" it's really quite eerie how many elements of Willie's story are in that program.

 
At 20 June, 2011 17:03, Blogger Ian said...

You really need to find a hobby for which you have some aptitude. Have you considered needlework?

This is really hilarious coming from someone who spends every waking hour babbling about his conspiracy obsessions all over the internet. Meatball on a fork! Smoldering Carpets! Widows! Willie Rodriguez! Modified Attack Baboons! Magic Thermite Elves! Widows! Willie Rodriguez! over and over and over and over and over and over again...

 
At 20 June, 2011 17:04, Blogger Ian said...

Paul w, I have proven that Willie is a liar and that his claims that he saved hundreds are fraudulent.

False. You've proven nothing. You just babble endlessly about your sexual obession with the man.

 
At 20 June, 2011 22:49, Blogger snug.bug said...

I have proven that Willie is a liar. Death statistics from the WTC show that only about 100 civilians died beneath the impact zones--most of them trapped in elevators or mobility impaired. If Willy's claim was true that his "Key of Hope" saved hundreds, then thousands should have died on the 129 floors beneath the impact zone that he never reached. They didn't. He lied.

Poor guy. Nobody loves you when you're old and a washed-up con artist.

 
At 21 June, 2011 08:59, Blogger WhyAskQuestions said...

Poor guy. Nobody loves you when you're old and a washed-up con artist.

That's worth a Stundie! BRian's talking about himself again folks!!

 
At 21 June, 2011 09:44, Blogger snug.bug said...

Says the guy who came on the scene dishonestly implying that he was FDNY.

 
At 21 June, 2011 09:50, Blogger WhyAskQuestions said...

Says the guy who came on the scene dishonestly implying that he was FDNY.

Brian, there's a difference when you have FRIENDS who work with the FDNY. I never implied that I was "with" the FDNY, I only stated that I'm a firefighter who has a FRIEND in the FDNY.

You do know what a FRIEND is, don't ya Brian?

 
At 21 June, 2011 09:56, Blogger snug.bug said...

WAQo, on December 15 2010 12:03 in the "NIST Did Test Explosive Theory" thread you wrote: "I can see that Jason Bermas is your hero. I am from the FDNY, so you are calling us liars."

You're a lying pussy.

 
At 21 June, 2011 09:57, Blogger WhyAskQuestions said...

Brian, Willie was there on 9/11, you weren't. So we'll take his word over yours anyday of the year.

 
At 21 June, 2011 09:59, Blogger WhyAskQuestions said...

"I can see that Jason Bermas is your hero. I am from the FDNY, so you are calling us liars."

At that time my friend was visiting. He saw what you wrote and I told him to get on. You have no fucking clue as to what a friend is, do you?

Only pussy I see around here is you. You chickened out of a debate with Willie, so you're the pussy.

 
At 21 June, 2011 10:03, Blogger WhyAskQuestions said...

Brian faces Willie in a debate, Brian begins to cluck:

BAWK BAWK BAWK BAWK I'M BRIAN GOOD BAWK BAWK BAWK BAWK I CHICKECNED OUT BAWK BAWK BAWK BAWK WITH A DEBATE BAWK BAWK BAWK BAKW WITH WILLIE BAWK BAWK BAWK BAWK RODRIGUEZ BAWK BAWK BAWK BAWK I'M A PUSSY BAWK BAWK BAWK BAWK AND CAROL STILL BAWK BAWK BAWK BAWK LOVES ME BAWK BAWK BAWK BAWK

 
At 21 June, 2011 10:04, Blogger WhyAskQuestions said...

Brian, nothing in you retarded mind can ever get me pissed off. However pissing you off seems to be fun and exciting.

 
At 21 June, 2011 10:14, Blogger snug.bug said...

WAQo, I didn't run from anything. I proposed alternative venues, and though Willie claimed to have pull with those very venues he refused to cooperate in setting anything up. I have also promised him that if he ever makes an appearance in the Bay Area I will challenge him and he will regret it.

You lied. You said you were FDNY.

 
At 21 June, 2011 10:19, Blogger WhyAskQuestions said...

WAQo, I didn't run from anything.

Bullshit, when Willie finally came on SLC you ran away and it's all in black and white for everyone to read. Don't fucking lie!

.I have also promised him that if he ever makes an appearance in the Bay Area I will challenge him and he will regret it.

And you'll be a pussy and run away again, won't you?

You lied. You said you were FDNY.

My FRIEND is with the FDNY. DO YOU KNOW WHAT A FRIEND IS? APPARENTLY YOU DON'T CAUSE YOU NEVER HAD ANY FRIENDS.

Fuck off you goat fucker, you're still pisseded that I proved you wrong about those explosions from Dec. 2010.

 
At 21 June, 2011 10:25, Blogger WhyAskQuestions said...

Here's a little thing you forgot to show everyone Brian:

http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?postID=8653072593984503182&blogID=27396589&isPopup=false&page=2

Brian asked: "So what happened to WhyAskQuestions? It turns out his name is Wil Clark and he lives in Johnstown, PA. I can't find any evidence of his claimed association with FDNY--which probably explains his reluctance to give his name."

I said: Brian,

Do you have any idea that Christmas is only 1 week away? I have a friend that comes in from NY & he's an FDNY firefighter. You just managed to piss him off about him lying.

"He was going to call up Carol Brouillet. Maybe his interview with her didn't go well for him?"

Perhaps I didn't get around to calling her yet, numbnuts!

16 December, 2010 09:37"

Therefore I'm not "lying" that I said that I was with the FDNY. Goat fucker is wrong and lying again!

 
At 21 June, 2011 10:33, Blogger WhyAskQuestions said...

That's right Brian, run away like the pussy that you truely are.

 
At 21 June, 2011 12:38, Blogger snug.bug said...

NWOR

 
At 21 June, 2011 16:11, Blogger WhyAskQuestions said...

NWOR

Not Worthy of Response?

Do I hear a chicken? Yes I do! His name's Brian (Not So) Good (With The Truth). Listen to him cluck!

BAWK! BAWK! BAWK! BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWK!

He just laid a rotten egg named "Conspiracy".

 
At 21 June, 2011 16:15, Blogger WhyAskQuestions said...

Brian,

YAAF

Figure that one out "genius"! HAHAHAHAHA! You'll never figure it out cause you're moron.

 
At 21 June, 2011 16:26, Blogger WhyAskQuestions said...

So Brian is with A & E for 9/11 Truth:

http://www2.ae911truth.org/profile.php?uid=999492

 
At 21 June, 2011 16:28, Blogger WhyAskQuestions said...

Name: Brian Good
Degree: B.S., Biological Sciences

City: Palo Alto
State: CA


LOL @ "Biological Sciences" WTF does a failed janitor know about biological science?

Oh wait, he kills germs for a living cause he's a janitor, my bad!

 
At 21 June, 2011 21:30, Blogger snug.bug said...

WAQo, am I correct in assuming that the world has given you many, many, many hints that you're not very bright?

 
At 22 June, 2011 08:09, Blogger WhyAskQuestions said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

 
At 22 June, 2011 08:11, Blogger WhyAskQuestions said...

WAQo, am I correct in assuming that the world has given you many, many, many hints that you're not very bright?

Haven't al of us here at SLC given you hints on here many times that you're a lying, cheating, floor flushing goat fucker that can't stand the truth?

Answer: YES!

Why don't you do us all a favor and STFU?

 
At 22 June, 2011 08:52, Blogger snug.bug said...

nwor

 
At 22 June, 2011 09:04, Blogger WhyAskQuestions said...

YAAF Brian!

 
At 22 June, 2011 18:03, Blogger Ian said...

Name: Brian Good
Degree: B.S., Biological Sciences

City: Palo Alto
State: CA


The fail is strong with this one. First, Brian's membership in a group that's supposedly for architects and engineers just shows how the group is a joke who will admit anyone. Jesus, Brian, at least pretend to be an engineer if you're going to join the group.

Also, biological sciences? I don't know too many biologists who think modified attack baboons, invisible widows, or magic thermite elves exist.

 
At 23 June, 2011 10:22, Blogger WhyAskQuestions said...

So far Brian hasn't reared his ugly head around for a while.

Hope he learned his lesson not to fuck with people who know alot about him.

 
At 23 June, 2011 11:13, Blogger snug.bug said...

You don't know beans about me, and I don't see anything worth fucking with. All I have to do is stand back and let you make a fool of yourself.

 
At 24 June, 2011 08:05, Blogger Ian said...

You don't know beans about me, and I don't see anything worth fucking with. All I have to do is stand back and let you make a fool of yourself.

Poor Brian. He's been pwn3d again and his only response is "squeal squeal squeal!"

 
At 24 June, 2011 09:14, Blogger WhyAskQuestions said...

You don't know beans about me, and I don't see anything worth fucking with. All I have to do is stand back and let you make a fool of yourself.

Atleast I'm not an idiot failed janitor like you.

You love making up the fact that you're lying out your ass when you said that you've got a degree in "Biological Sciences" or that you're a structural engineer when you said "Watched from my office as an office high-rise was constructed next door."

Yeah, people like me can search the web looking into who you really are Brian. All it takes is a few key strokes to find it.

 
At 25 June, 2011 09:50, Blogger snug.bug said...

All it takes is a few keystrokes to find vicious lies asserted by a bigot and a con artist whose ability to maintain their status in the truth movement has been extended a few only by leveling vicious ad hominem attacks on their critics, and whose status in the truth movement has turned to crap.

The Bible you turkeys consult about me is a fiction created by an anonymous internet poster, CBSF, as presented by the dishonest and incompetent scholar Kevin Barrett, that has no textual validity at all.

Where did you get the idea that I failed as a janitor?

 

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