Some More Guilt By Association
Apparently Joshua Blakeney griped about how my pointing out that he is a columnist for Veterans Today and that Holocaust Denier Ernst Zundel's wife is also a columnist for VT, was a classic example of the "guilt by association" fallacy. Of course, Blakeney apparently is not aware of what the real "guilt by association" fallacy is; guess that Professor Anthony J. Hall doesn't teach much critical thinking.
Guilt by association is when you take a comparatively trivial commonality between one person and another and then ascribe the unrelated bad things about the first person to the second. For example:
Hitler was a vegetarian and evil.
Morgan Spurlock is a vegetarian.
Therefore, Morgan Spurlock is evil.
Being a vegetarian is a trivial similarity to Hitler. Being a columnist for a website that also has a Holocaust Denier columnist is not a trivial similarity.
Anyway, that's not really what this post is about, but I wanted to get it out of the way before I get accused of guilt by association again.
Box Boy Richard Gage is headed to Ireland in June:
And just who else is on the bill?
Dr Andrew Wakefield:
Andrew Wakefield (born 1957) is a British former surgeon and medical researcher known for his fraudulent[1] claims of a causative connection between the measles, mumps and rubella (MMR) vaccine, autism and autistic enterocolitis.
On 28 January 2010, a five-member statutory tribunal of the GMC found some three dozen charges proved, including four counts of dishonesty and 12 counts involving the abuse of developmentally challenged children.[7] The panel ruled that Wakefield had "failed in his duties as a responsible consultant", acted both against the interests of his patients, and "dishonestly and irresponsibly" in his published research.
Alan Watt appears to be the Canadian Alex Jones.
Walter Graham is an anti-fluoridation kook in Ireland. F. William Engdahl is a former Lyndon LaRouche disciple. Kevin Flanagan is a pusher of the Freemen On the Land nuttery. And Luke Rudkowski is of course famous as the founder of We Are Change; less commonly known is that Luke was kicked out of WAC several months ago due to financial irregularities.
After years of suspicion and accusations by former and current members of We Are Change NYC, Luke Rudkowski has been ousted stemming from months, if not years, of internal conflict regarding the groups finances. Palpable tension between Rudkowski and the body of members of We Are Change began in the weeks following their September 11th, 2010 fundraiser for First Responders.
As the weeks turned into months following 9/11 fundraising events in September, members grew concerned which turned into anger. From discussions with many from the group this apparently was nothing new. Members reported this to to become an annual trend. Questions would be raised concerning the finances following the 9/11 fundraising event with the group at that point, stonewalled. Tension rose and by mid-November Rudkowski was refusing to appear at any of the scheduled We Are Change meetings to discuss the groups finances.
Richard Gage should fit right in with this crew.
posted by Pat @ 2:45 PM
49 comments
49 Comments:
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Do you mean to say that the [cough] esteemed Luke Rudkowski was in it from the beginning for money?
This is heresy, I say!
After all, a raised under-Reagan, gen-Y hypocrite would never throw his fellow conspiracy theorist's under the bus--and especially not in the same manner that his baby boomer, über-yuppie scum parents threw Luke under that same bus--for one purpose, and one purpose only, in order to make a quick buck. Say it isn't so, Herr Streicher!
And when did selling tin-foil hats to marginally attached to reality Americans become a "business model" for young, [mis]raised under-Reagan "entrepreneurs"?
I mean, how does one explain FaceBook, which, being absolutely worthless in any sane stock value-to-book analysis, continues to be a Wall Street darling?
The mind boggles!
Do you mean to tell us that scam culture is dominant in America? How could that be? After all, America is a "Christian" culture, and, thank God, we just experienced the 96-month long reign of justice and equity (read reign of error and fraud) commonly known as the "Bush [mal]administration."
That said, could Luke Rudkowski be that [cough] cynical? And just how did this sub-optimal outcome happen?
Inquiring minds want to know.
You don't hear much about Andrew Wakefield among the truthers. I'm guessing that since joining the truth movement is, for all intents and purposes, a vow of chastity, none of them have kids they will keep from being vaccinated.
There was a profile of Wakefield in the NY Times a month or so ago, and the guy is just the charlatan one would expect. And just like the charlatans at the head of the truth movement, he has a core of fanatical followers for whom reason and evidence goes out the window.
Another conspiracy fuck goes on a shooting rampage: http://www.pnj.com/article/20110602/NEWS01/106020306/Mudbugged-Crawfish-shortage-spurs-shooting-business?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE
"The Hidden Agenda For a Global Scientific Dictatorship"
Now that is funny. "We don't need no stinking Science"
Now that is funny.
Well its a good strategy on their part. Now they can claim that they can;t get published in any real journal on the planet because its a global conspiracy. Thats usually one of the points that shuts them up; that none of the real journals on the planet will publish their BS. This is a cute way of dismissing it.
Note that Luke Rudkowski has been a 9/11 activist since the day of the crashes. Nice way to admit that he was already set in his BS before any investigation took place.
" F. William Engdahl is a former Lyndon LaRouche disciple."
Wait.
How much crazier do you have to get in order to abandon Lyndon LaRouche?
"Fuck you, beaner" -Troy Sexton, convicted child abuser, to a hispanic radio host.
"Troy is my buddy from West Virginia"
-Pat Curley
No fallacy there, huh Pat? Clear as day...
Lazarus, I suspect that LaRouche abandoned him, just as he dumped Webster Tarpley. LaRouche famously purged his group of most of the baby boomers in the 1990s, opting to go for a new generation of rubes.
Wakefield pisses me off. Not only because of all the children who died needlessly because he'd scared their parents away from vaccinating them, but because the media so willingly bought into his line of bullshit. They'd interview ten experts who'd tell them that Wakefield was wrong, but they'd give him equal weight.
" mean, how does one explain FaceBook, which, being absolutely worthless in any sane stock value-to-book analysis, continues to be a Wall Street darling?"
Stupidity, it is explained by stupidity. Sometimes I uderstand the troofers because so often it seems like people want to be lied to. In 2000 we watched the tech-bubble grow out of control. Our web-based store made more money than e-Toys, Pets.com, and Amazon put together (around $250,000 in profit, those companies lost money), and we couldn't understand why their stock values were so high. So now I'm watching a new tech bubble grow, and I'm hoping that Sacremanto has the brains not to base a budget on phoney numbers as they did back in 2000.
Wow. The despair over at truthaction is palpable. How many more clues do those morons need that they picked the wrong team?
Jon Gold's posts on that link are especially pathetic.
"I've only wasted a decade of my life on this, only to have it thrown under a bus by ASSHOLES. Some of you can relate."
"Given up my life, my friends, my health... for this."
Jon, it's bull-ess. The leaders are charlatains, anti-semetic hate mongers, and complete wack jobs. Don't give them another day.
Stupidity, it is explained by stupidity
If you also meant this for the vaccine debate, I'm not sure on that one, Greg.
From my experience, I used to be an organic-is-the-only-way person, and then read up on the subject. Oh dear.
Have to say, I was bummed. When one holds something close, to realise it is not what one thinks, it's a bloody big jolt.
Still, reality is reality, and the good news was that it meant the supermarket food was far, far better quality than I thought, and that can only be a good thing. And, much cheaper!
However, when I mention this to others in the organic world, eyes roll and (more often) anger erupts.
These are bright, educated people, I might add, so I think it's more about them wanting faith in something, because they have lost so much faith in our institutions, esp. governments and business.
Vaccines is another hotly-contested area (esp. so in the organic crowd), and once again, I think it comes down to a deep distrust of our institutions; people just don't believe what they have to say.
In some cases, for good reason, but vaccines is about children, and even my most realistic friends do get concerned; the anti-vaccine crowd focus on fear, and when it’s about their kids, it’s an easy one to exploit.
In many ways, it's like truthers; they often just simply refuse to accept anything from any 'official' source.
I agree that the anti-vaccination crowd have much to answer for. I have not read up about Wakefield, and so will take your word on his disastrous achievements, I’m just not convinced that it’s stupidity. Not in the majority of cases, anyway.
As for truthers, urm….
My, Gold is in a funk, eh?
Mental breakdown, perhaps?
A new movement needs a new framing. If the "9/11 Truth" brand has been degraded by ideologues, con artists, and conspiracy carnies, a new brand is needed. So what would that be?
This could be good...
One thing that it shows me is that major figures in the movement feel essentially no pressure to steer clear of sensational conspiracy theories...
Bwahahahaha!
"...I wish there was a sufficiently robust "rational" wing of the movement that at the very least figures like Gage would feel pressure to stick with sound science."
Beyond parody.
"These are bright, educated people, I might add, so I think it's more about them wanting faith in something, because they have lost so much faith in our institutions, esp. governments and business."
I could see losing faith in the government, or the news media. I don't understand losing faith in medicine. Polio and Small Pox have been consigned to history because of vaccines. I suffer from ceribral palsy because my mother was late in getting my scheduled German Measles vaccine when I was 7 months old - my body temp went to 109 before they got me into an ice bath.
I understand fear, and there is a percentage of kids who are damaged or killed by a reaction to a vaccine. That number is much smaller than the kids who die in car accidents, or household accidents each year. In Environmental Science last semester we were taught that people are just lousy at risk assessment. The number of children who've died from Whooping Cough in California has doubled in two years, how does a parent live with their child dying from a preventable disease?
Wakefield launched a scam that fooled everyone except medical researchers. This is a piece from CNN:
http://www.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/01/06/autism.vaccines/index.html
In this piece the anti-vaccine folks won't give up. It is a worthwhile read.
"I’m just not convinced that it’s stupidity. Not in the majority of cases, anyway."
In the rest of the cases it boils down to ego. There was a PBS special (I believe is was a NOVA episode) where they explored the woman who claimed to be Anastasia, the youngest daughter of the Romanov family, who'd escaped execution. She lived very well off the extensive charity of some New England, upper-crust, blue-blood-types until her death. These people went to the finest schools and universities (naturally). When NOVA came back with the DNA search which showed she was not a Romanov these well educated people refused to believe the science. They all claimed that there was some kind of mistake, and then a few even said that they didn't care what the evidence showed because they "knew the truth".
Sometimes stupidity is a choice.
The basic fact is that 9-11 Truth has been a money-loser in terms of attracting enough rubes to the big top for awhile now. I love that Albanese wants to ban any book or DVD sales at any Troof Events; talk about guaranteeing that they will have to piggy-back on other crackpots.
BTW, GB, Luke was not raised under Reagan; he was born in Poland and came to the US at about 10 years old IIRC. So I doubt his parents were boomer yuppies.
My, Gold is in a funk, eh?
Mental breakdown, perhaps?
Yeah maybe. He realizes what he's doing is making him unhappy, but he refuses to stop doing it. If that's not a self-destructive personality then nothing is.
If the "9/11 Truth" brand has been degraded by ideologues, con artists, and conspiracy carnies, a new brand is needed.
What these Truthers don't realize is that they too are ideologues, con artists, and conspiracy carnies. Gage fits right in with people like Blakeney and Wakefield. Surely nobody else looked at that poster and said "wow, what's a highly respected movement like 9-11 Truth doing at an event like that?
That whiny Truthaction thread is a bunch of people looking in the mirror, who don't like what they see. But they're blind to the obvious conclusion that 9-11 Truth is just as worthless as all the other junk science it hangs out with. They have the same shoddy methods, the same underlying prejudices, and they appeal to the same consumers. But people like Jon Gold will whine on about "branding", as though 9-11 Truth were some kind of laundry detergent.
Sad, really. These people can't break free from their own mental prison.
Pat wrote, "...BTW, GB, Luke was not raised under Reagan; he was born in Poland and came to the US at about 10 years old IIRC. So I doubt his parents were boomer yuppies."
Source?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8Pq0V1nCaM&feature=related
Interview with Luke in Polish; click CC to get the English translation. He talks about coming to America
First of all, Luke doesn't say anything about coming to the US at the age of 10. He said "when I was very young." So, in fact, you have no idea how old he was when he moved to the United States.
Second, he admits in the interview that he doesn't speak or understand Polish very well. This indicates that he learned the Polish language at home, most likely from his parents.
Furthermore, he says nothing about his parents alleged arrival in New York. In fact, I've heard he's from Ohio, not New York.
I find it very hard to believe that his parents moved to New York from Poland, unless his parents are wealthy. As we all know, New York City is one of the most expensive places to live in the United States.
In any case, I don't know how you came to your conclusions, but your conclusions are not supported by the YouTube video.
Yeah, Pat has a lot of trouble with sources and comprehension. Too busy gossiping, I guess.
Shut up, goat fucker.
Bill, as for him being ten years old, I remember it coming from a very early story about Rudkowski from some newspaper or magazine article. Unfortunately, he's got so much web presence nowadays that I can't find the article anymore.
Furthermore, he says nothing about his parents alleged arrival in New York. In fact, I've heard he's from Ohio, not New York.
?????
He says near the beginning of the video, "I came to United States because of my father, who had come to New York first." And later, "At the beginning it wasn't easy for us there in Brooklyn, NY."
Not sure where you're going with this, or why you're being so hostile to a minor correction, but you're definitely wrong on the New York issue. Maybe he lived for a time in Ohio, I don't know. And New York definitely has some cheap places to live, including many parts of Brooklyn.
You're right, I missed that part. He does mention New York. He also mentions that his father brought Luke and his mother to the United States, where he "started a business." Then things "started to get better" for his family.
So, by his own admission, he was raised with "entrepreneurial values," which explains why he cheats, lies and embezzles money from the rubes who are foolish enough to buy into his conspiracy dog-and-pony show. It's all about the money, and always has been. Thus, he's a good little raised under-Reagan miscreant, who values money and money only, and he'll do anything--including lie, cheat and embezzle--to make money.
Second, he admits in the interview that he doesn't speak or understand Polish very well.
He's lying. He never hesitates, stumbles, or asks the speaker to repeat himself (all the stuff I have to do when talking to my mother-in-law). Polish-language comments on the video indicate that he's perfectly fluent.
I don't understand losing faith in medicine.
Greg, my view is that it's because medicine has become 'big business', and while this is a gross generalisation, there's enough reason to mistrust those bastards.
Unfortunately, because of the lies and deceitful behaviour of some individuals within companies, many people paint all business with the same brush, and mistrust them all completely, and anything they say is thus ignored.
Yes, a stupid position to take, especially with vaccines, but I think the loss of trust is the driving factor, not stupidity itself.
But, your point is taken. I guess I tend to believe most people aren’t stupid, but can occasionally be.
I totally agree that vaccinations have been a wonderful thing, and it concerns me that the rubbish on the internet is creating a worrying problem; it’s my understanding that if too many kids are left unvaccinated, this may create a large enough base for a virus to incubate, and morp into something worse that can then skip into the vaccinated population.
there is a percentage of kids who are damaged or killed by a reaction to a vaccine
Not sure if it’s a reaction to the vaccine per se, but a combination of things. I think I saw that NOVA doc in Australia last year, and it’s clear more research needs to be done in this area – checking kids before they receive the shot.
Thanks for the info on Wakefield.
Sometimes stupidity is a choice
Unfortunately, yes.
Somewhat off-topic, here’s a great interview about belief and believing:
The Believing Brain
http://www.skepticality.com/
Ps Always good to take to another Monty Python and ther Holy Grail fan.
Arthur:
"The Lady of the Lake, her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water, signifying by divine providence that I, Arthur, was to carry Excalibur. THAT is why I am your king."
Dennis:
"Listen, strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony."
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I don't understand losing faith in medicine.
Greg, my view is that it's because medicine has become 'big business', and while this may be a gross generalisation, there's enough reason to mistrust those bastards.
Unfortunately, because of the lies and deceitful behaviour of some individuals within companies, many people paint all business with the same brush, and mistrust them all completely, and anything they say is thus ignored.
Yes, a stupid position to take, especially with vaccines, but I think the loss of trust is the driving factor, not stupidity itself.
But, your point is taken. I guess I tend to believe most people aren’t stupid, but can occasionally be.
I totally agree that vaccinations have been a wonderful thing, and it concerns me that the rubbish on the internet is creating a worrying problem; it’s my understanding that if too many kids are left unvaccinated, this may create a large enough base for a virus to incubate, and morp into something worse that can then skip into the vaccinated population.
there is a percentage of kids who are damaged or killed by a reaction to a vaccine
Not sure if it’s a reaction to the vaccine per se, but a combination of things. I think I saw that NOVA doc in Australia last year, and it’s clear more research needs to be done in this area – checking kids before they receive the shot.
Thanks for the info on Wakefield.
Sometimes stupidity is a choice
Unfortunately, yes.
Somewhat off-topic, here’s a great interview about belief and believing:
The Believing Brain
http://www.skepticality.com/
PS. Always good to talk to a Monty Python and the Holy Grail fan.
King Arthur: "The Lady of the Lake, her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water, signifying by divine providence that I, Arthur, was to carry Excalibur. THAT is why I am your king."
Dennis: "Listen, strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
"...you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you.
"...if I went 'round sayin' I was Emperor, just because some moistened bint lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away.
"Come and see the violence inherent in the system. Help! Help! I'm being repressed!"
Thus, he's a good little raised under-Reagan miscreant, who values money and money only, and he'll do anything--including lie, cheat and embezzle--to make money.
Talk about guilt by association.
Luke's also 23-24 years old, so the extent to which he was "raised under Reagan" would appear to consist of years when he was still crapping in diapers in Poland.
Yeah really. I think of myself as "raised under Reagan", since his presidency coincided with ages 8 to 16 of my life. And I'm pushing 40 now. Rudkowski is far too young for that label. If anything, he was raised under Clinton.
he'll do anything--including lie, cheat...
he was raised under Clinton
Well, that's that one sorted out.
Never mind that Clinton and Obama are self-proclaimed admirers of Reagan. And it's my personal belief that we're now in the 8th term of the Reagan presidency.
Defend that asshole Reagan until you're blue in the face, but those of us who lived through his 96-month long reign of error--to say nothing of his disastrous California governorship--know better.
Triterope wrote, "...I think of myself as 'raised under Reagan', since his presidency coincided with ages 8 to 16 of my life. And I'm pushing 40 now."
Yes, and you're too young to know the difference. No sentient individual will deny that Ronald "greed is good" Reagan was America's first right-wing radical (Reagan masqueraded as a "conservative," however, he quadrupled the US national debt, which is hardly "conservative") to win the office of president of the United States. And no one in his right mind will argue that every president who followed him--from George Herbert Walker Bush to Obama--doesn't--by default--advocate "reaganomics."
Beg to differ if you wish; however, I'm perfectly prepared to argue that "reaganomics" was, and remains, an unmitigated disaster.
And need I remind you that virtually all of the people who started the [un]American 9/11 "truth" movement--from Eric Hufdschmid to the Montana and Ohio Militias to David Ray Grifter--are right wingers?
Nah, no "conservative" scam culture there...move along, folks.
With all due respect, Bill, what the hell is your point? If you think Reagan was a bad president, that's fine. But to say that a man's values come solely from the presidential administrations of their youth is ridiculous.
Perhaps you should review the original post:
Guilt by association is when you take a comparatively trivial commonality between one person and another and then ascribe the unrelated bad things about the first person to the second.
And New York definitely has some cheap places to live, including many parts of Brooklyn.
FWIW, I live in a heavily Polish neighborhood in Brooklyn. It has gotten more expensive to live as it gentrifies (guilty as charged of being one of the gentrifiers) but there is still a large blue-collar Polish population. It wouldn't surprise me in the least to find that Luke lives/lived a few blocks from me.
From the truthaction thread, courtesy of Brian Good:
A new movement needs a new framing. If the "9/11 Truth" brand has been degraded by ideologues, con artists, and conspiracy carnies, a new brand is needed. So what would that be?
Brian, as luck would have it, I have years of professional and educational experience in marketing. Since you're a failed janitor who wears women's underwear, I doubt you could handle the re-branding process yourself, but I'll act as the consultant in re-branding the truth movement. My fees are $500 an hour. Whaddya say?
Another unintentionally hilarious comment from Brian:
Europeans are more sophisticated and better-educated than Americans.
Brian might be right. I mean, if someone who grew up in affluence and privilege like Brian did can end up as hopelessly ignorant and incapable of rational thought as our resident failed janitor and Rodriguez-stalker did, it reflects poorly on the American educational system.
I've posted this before, it's from "Monty Python and the Holy Grail", and it fits troofer logic so well. I wouldn't be suprised if the conference isn't too different from this clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrzMhU_4m-g
Maybe Willie turned Brian into a newt, but he didn't get better.
"David Ray Grifter....right- winger"?
He is? I thought he believed one world government? granted expecting consistency from a twoofer is like expecting people to walk on water, but one world government is antithetical to pretty much any right-wing strain.
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Triterope wrote, "...With all due respect, Bill, what the hell is your point?"
I'm not the best writer, so perhaps I should let someone who's more eloquent make the point for me. And I quote:
"...Give me just one generation of youth, and I'll transform the whole world." -- Vladimir Ilyich Lenin
My God! This is like a Super Group of Stupid. The Travelling Wilburys of Truth!
People like Wakefield did even have some mainstream press support for a while but it's so satisfying to see he's completely consigned to the loony fringe these days.
Alan Watt, as well. Jesus! It doesn't get any more swivel-eyed than this. I expect average IQs to plummet at free-fall speed in that hotel next weekend.
"...Give me just one generation of youth, and I'll transform the whole world." -- Vladimir Ilyich Lenin
That didn't help.
he'll do anything--including lie, cheat...
he was raised under Clinton
Well, that's that one sorted out.
GB, maybe that was misunderstood.
I was not supporting Reagan in that comment, I was trying to point out that Clinton was not exactly a role model for ethical behaviour.
"You're right, I missed that part."
-GoatfuckerBill
Yeah, you have a lot of trouble with sources and comprehension, goiterball.
Say the failed janitor who wears women's underwear.
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