Sunday, July 24, 2011

Chapter from Fenton Book Available Online

It mostly concerns the CIA's failure to notify the FBI that al-Hazmi and al-Midhar were in the United States, and goes over in some detail George Tenet's inconsistent responses to inquiries about the same. It's all familiar stuff, gone over in detail in Shenon's The Commission. Fenton's main addition to the story is his implication that the failures of the CIA were intentional and not simply mistakes or incompetence as here:

Some of these errors, such as the failure to pick up surveillance at the airport, may seem genuine errors of the sort made by all complex organizations. However, Bangkok station’s behavior when being queried about the cable is highly suspicious. Why claim it did not have the departure information and would have difficulty obtaining it, when it probably already had it or could get it easily? And why omit Almihdhar’s name from the March 5 cable?


Philip Zelikow, generally portrayed by the Truthers as one of the villains, actually comes off pretty well in this chapter:

Philip Zelikow, one of the staffers who interviewed Tenet, later said there was no one “a-ha moment” when they realized Tenet was not telling them the full truth, but his constant failure to remember key aspects disturbed them, and in the end “we just didn’t believe him.” After the meeting, Zelikow allegedly reported to the Commissioners that Tenet perjured himself. The staff and most of the Commissioners came to believe that Tenet was “at best, loose with the facts,” and at worst “flirting with a perjury charge.” It seems that even Commission Chairman Tom Kean came to believe that Tenet was a witness who would “fudge everything.”

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61 Comments:

At 24 July, 2011 12:39, Blogger snug.bug said...

Zelikow's perceptions of perjury were mighty selective, since he apparently couldn't see Condi's blatant perjury about the "Bin Laden Determined to Strike in US" memo when it happened right in front of his face.

According to Shenon he even called up the CIA authors of the memo to ask them to confirm her claims that the memo was not a warning but only an historical review.

And then he pissed off his staffers by insisting that her incredible claims be inserted in the report point by point against the charges from Richard Clarke.

Later, of course, Secretary of State Rice rewarded Zelikow with a plum job. He's scum.

 
At 24 July, 2011 13:42, Blogger M Gregory Ferris said...

Richard Clarke's mistakes lead to 9/11, not Dr, Rice's.

"And then he pissed off his staffers by insisting that her incredible claims be inserted in the report ..."

Because it was an investigation, not a witch-hunt.

 
At 24 July, 2011 13:55, Blogger M Gregory Ferris said...

"However, Bangkok station’s behavior when being queried about the cable is highly suspicious. Why claim it did not have the departure information and would have difficulty obtaining it, when it probably already had it or could get it easily? "

"probably already had it or could get it easily..."

What does one get when they assume?

First this assumes that the CIA station in Bangkok had nothing else to do. It assumes that there weren't other high priority operations in play. It assumes that we have a healthy relationship with the Thai government. It assumes that the CIA personel in Bangkok were competent enough to give suspected terrorists the priority they required.

Lots off assumption can be a dangerous thing.

 
At 24 July, 2011 15:11, Blogger snug.bug said...

MGF, your ideologue's bias in favor of the perjurer and torturer Dr. Condoleezza Rice is duly noted. The 9/11 Widows called her "KindaLiesaLot Rice".

What information do you have to support your belief that the Bangkok station could not easily get the departure information of known al Qaeda operatives al Hazmi and al Mihdhar?

So there you go with your ideologically-based assumptions of incompetence again. Maybe when you finally finish your degree you should apply to the CIA and see where your competence gets you.

 
At 24 July, 2011 15:57, Blogger Jon Gold said...

From my interview with Kevin. You should really tell the whole story.

What are your feelings about Philip Zelikow, the Executive Director of the 9/11 Commission?

After the second draft of the book was finished, the National Archives made available a portion of the commission’s files. An associate, Erik Larson, went to the Archives and started to upload the commission documents to the web. I started writing stories based on the files Erik found, one of which was critical of Zelikow. This led to a brief exchange of emails with Zelikow, although he did not give me much new information and kept his cards close to his chest (it was mostly about the air defense on 9/11, not what Disconnecting is about).

My opinion of government officials in general is that they are intelligent, nice and incredibly straight people. They often have a hard time thinking that their colleagues, also intelligent, nice and seemingly straight people, would ever do anything intentionally wrong. This attitude was prevalent on the commission. For example, it’s crystal clear from Shenon’s book that a whole bunch of people on the commission thought CIA Director George Tenet was, at best, economical with the truth, but there’s not a word of this in the report. In addition, judging by what Shenon wrote, nobody ever stopped to ask themselves just why Tenet was lying, what, specifically, was he trying to hide. Also remember the list of chapter headings that Zelikow drafted in the first few months of the investigation and that Philip Shenon exposed in his book? Zelikow knew what he wanted to write more or less from the beginning and was predisposed to follow that course, not to go where the evidence took him.

If I were Tom Wilshire or Richard Blee I would have slept soundly in my bed at night knowing that Barbara Grewe (the DoJ IG and commission investigator responsible for the CIA/FBI issues) and Philip Zelikow were investigating me. Better, more thorough and more skeptical investigators would have got further. Here’s one example of how it should have been done differently: Tenet lied to the commission under oath about not briefing President Bush in mid-August 2001. He then sent out a press release saying he had momentarily forgot about it. OK, so call him back, put him under oath again and have him answer the question.

 
At 24 July, 2011 16:04, Blogger Jon Gold said...

And... I don't recall any of the issues in his book ever being addressed by this site. If you do a search on this site, there are no posts on these issues. Oh well.

 
At 24 July, 2011 16:53, Blogger M Gregory Ferris said...

"What information do you have to support your belief that the Bangkok station could not easily get the departure information of known al Qaeda operatives al Hazmi and al Mihdhar? "

The same information Fenton has that they did.

"MGF, your ideologue's bias in favor of the perjurer and torturer Dr. Condoleezza Rice is duly noted."

Don't you really want to say "Negro"?

 
At 24 July, 2011 17:15, Blogger Grandmastershek said...

Also remember the list of chapter headings that Zelikow drafted in the first few months of the investigation and that Philip Shenon exposed in his book?

OMG!!! In a few months he knew what order he would put information in!!!! INSIDE JOB!!!!

 
At 24 July, 2011 17:29, Blogger snug.bug said...

GMS, the point is that Dr. Zelikow wrote the outline to the report before the investigation began. He's scum.

<GF, your conflation of the term "negro" with "perjurer and torturer" is duly noted.

 
At 24 July, 2011 18:03, Blogger J Rebori said...

"GF, your conflation of the term "negro" with "perjurer and torturer" is duly noted."

Can't you just hear the needles click as Madame DeFarge makes note of all her enemies.

 
At 24 July, 2011 18:05, Blogger snug.bug said...

There's a difference between accountability and vengeance, JR.

 
At 24 July, 2011 18:15, Blogger M Gregory Ferris said...

"There's a difference between accountability and vengeance, JR."

Not in your world, Spalding...

It is no suprise that your most vicious attack are on Dr. Rice and Willie Rodriguez. They are not Anglos. This is the root of your problem with them.

 
At 24 July, 2011 18:25, Blogger M Gregory Ferris said...

"<GF, your conflation of the term "negro" with "perjurer and torturer" is duly noted."

Just pointing out that you let Richard Clarke and Sandy Berger skate on their 8 years of counter-terrorism negligence, but judge a black woman to a different standard.

Why is that, Brian, is it just because she's female? You call us girls all the time as if girls are inferior. That she is also African-American must send you over the edge. You can hide behind far-left spew all you want, but even the phrase "Neo-Con" is racist.

Get a white robe, Brian, one with the pointy hood too. They'd love you, they're conspiracy nuts too.

 
At 24 July, 2011 18:35, Blogger snug.bug said...

Clarke and Berger did not perjure themselves, clown. Kindaliesalot Rice did.

Unlike you, I don't care about the melanin content of her skin, except to note that she exploited it to get where she got.

 
At 24 July, 2011 18:45, Blogger J Rebori said...

"There's a difference between accountability and vengeance, JR."

Yes, and since making note of your strawman constructions of others comments is hardly relevant to accountablility, you must have vengence in mind.

When will your little reign of terror begin?

 
At 24 July, 2011 19:12, Blogger snug.bug said...

Conflating accountablity with a reign of terror well serves the malefactors, JR.

MGF, Kevin Barrett is as whitebread as they come, almost as whitebread as Condi. I guess you forgot that I went after him too.

 
At 24 July, 2011 19:52, Blogger M Gregory Ferris said...

"Unlike you, I don't care about the melanin content of her skin, except to note that she exploited it to get where she got."

...and there it is.

Just say "White Power!" Brian, Shout it with pride.


"Clarke and Berger did not perjure themselves, clown. Kindaliesalot Rice did."

Berger stole classified documents pertaining to 9/11 and destroyed them. He should be in prison. Clarke didn't lie in front of the commission but he didn't tell the truth either. It was Clarke's fucked up Somalia mission in 1993 that ended with over 3000 dead Somalis on October 3rd, by your fucked up standard Clarke is a war criminal.

 
At 24 July, 2011 19:54, Blogger M Gregory Ferris said...

"MGF, Kevin Barrett is as whitebread as they come, almost as whitebread as Condi. "

Yet another racist slur against Rice. You really are a loser.

I could give a crap about Kevin Barret other than to point out that you steal many of his quotes to use as your own...

 
At 24 July, 2011 21:31, Blogger J Rebori said...

"Conflating accountablity with a reign of terror well serves the malefactors, JR. "

Assembling a list of percieved slights to you and your cause by others isn't an issue of accountability. It's an enemies list, a matter of vengence.

Comparing you to one of English literature's greatest villians may have been giving you too much credit. She at least had style, and a better grasp of the English language.

 
At 24 July, 2011 22:04, Blogger snug.bug said...

OMG! It's the English Literature blog!

Well, poof to you, thou pribbling, onion-eyed, puttock!

 
At 25 July, 2011 06:47, Blogger J Rebori said...

And once again, when his arguments inevitably fail, we see snug start on the personal attacks.

Point stands, your "taking note" of perceived slights created out of strawmen is nothingm ore than the sign of a person who looking for vengence.

 
At 25 July, 2011 09:47, Blogger WhyAskQuestions said...

There's a difference between accountability and vengeance.

Accountability that the Truth Movement is wrong & so are you & that venegance is something you lack without any motivation to carry it out.

Your life Brian is like an open book.

 
At 25 July, 2011 10:20, Blogger Pat said...

Brian, your buddy Clarke believes that 9-11 happened because of incompetence, remember? It's amazing how you guys will latch onto anybody who's anti-Bush, even if they disagree with your kooky "inside job" theories. Where does Richard Clarke stand on controlled demolition at the towers? I suspect if you asked him, he'd say that your all a bunch of whacktards.

 
At 25 July, 2011 15:23, Blogger snug.bug said...

Pat, we know what Mr. Clarke says, but that doesn't necessarily tell us what he believes. There's no reason to have any concern about what he thinks, if anything, about the twin towers. If he's like most people he's never bothered to investigate the issues and relies for his opinion upon some authority figure in his life who probably has not bothered to investigate the issues himself. It's pretty easy to invent rationales for why you needn't look into it, as I did. I thought the reason there was no air defense was because we had four simultaneous hijackings and NORAD never had a chance to respond. Only when I learned that there had been no air defense for 100 minutes did I realize that I had invented that story because it was the only thing that made sense.

 
At 25 July, 2011 16:47, Blogger M Gregory Ferris said...

"Pat, we know what Mr. Clarke says, but that doesn't necessarily tell us what he believes. "

Really, Spalding? Mr. Clarke has been more than happy to tell anybody within earshot everything on his mind related to Al Qaeda, bin Laden, and 9/11 so why would he leave anything out?

"There's no reason to have any concern about what he thinks, if anything, about the twin towers. If he's like most people he's never bothered to investigate the issues"

Translation: Clarke is not a delusional paranoid burnout.

"relies for his opinion upon some authority figure in his life who probably has not bothered to investigate the issues himself"

Yeah, 'cuz Clarke's career as the ultimate government insider only gives him so much access, plus nobody ever talks to him.

" thought the reason there was no air defense was because we had four simultaneous hijackings and NORAD never had a chance to respond"

Which is mostly true except that they did scramble fighter planes, but just too late and in the wrong direction.

"Only when I learned that there had been no air defense for 100 minutes did I realize that I had invented that story because it was the only thing that made sense.
"

Should read " " I had invented that story because I have no life"

 
At 25 July, 2011 17:55, Blogger snug.bug said...

All attitude, no substance from Mr. Fartbreath, I see.

 
At 25 July, 2011 18:10, Blogger M Gregory Ferris said...

"All attitude, no substance from Mr. Fartbreath, I see."

Whatzamatter, Goober, no Klan rally tonight?

 
At 25 July, 2011 19:43, Blogger Ian said...

All attitude, no substance from Mr. Fartbreath, I see.

The wheels are falling off again. All Brian has to do is call us "girls", or if you really get inside his head as I did last night, he calls you "it".

 
At 25 July, 2011 19:46, Blogger snug.bug said...

Ian, the day a flea like you gets inside my head I might as well give it up.

 
At 25 July, 2011 19:49, Blogger snug.bug said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

 
At 25 July, 2011 19:53, Blogger Ian said...

Ian, the day a flea like you gets inside my head I might as well give it up.

See what I mean?

Now I'm a "flea". This is comic gold, Brian!

 
At 25 July, 2011 19:54, Blogger Ian said...

Seriously, MGF. Do you think a white woman could have failed as miserably at her job as Condi did as National Security Advisor, lied about it under oath to an official investigation, and then gotten promoted to Secretary of State?

So we all know that Brian is a nasty misogynist (hence calling people "girls" as an insult), but it appears he's a racist as well.

 
At 25 July, 2011 20:09, Blogger snug.bug said...

Nope. The racists are those who, like you, expect less from a black woman than they would from a white woman.

 
At 25 July, 2011 20:22, Blogger Ian said...

Nope. The racists are those who, like you, expect less from a black woman than they would from a white woman.

That's the best you can do, Brian? I think your heart is not really into this 9/11 truth stuff anymore.

 
At 25 July, 2011 20:41, Blogger GuitarBill said...

Ian wrote, "...So we all know that Brian is a nasty misogynist (hence calling people "girls" as an insult), but it appears he's a racist as well."

My impression is that Captain Crackpot is a deep-cover GOP operative. After all, real Democrats don't show up at party events dressed in women's underwear. Republican party operatives, on the other hand...

%^)

 
At 25 July, 2011 22:48, Blogger M Gregory Ferris said...

"That's the best you can do, Brian? I think your heart is not really into this 9/11 truth stuff anymore."

Ian, you gotta give Brian a break, it's been a rough year for him.

Carol still won't speak to him.
No evidence to support anything the truth movement wants the world to belive has surfaced.

Wikileaks released thousands of classified documents from the Iraq and Afghan wars. No smoking gun.

Obama went to war with Libya without bothering to stage a false-flag operation. The nerve of that guy.

The world found out that he doesn't understand thermodynamics in any way, shape or form.

Now the impending government shutdown might mean his SSI check will be late and he's too old to have a paper route.

 
At 26 July, 2011 02:23, Blogger snug.bug said...

All attitude, no substance from Mr. Fartbreath, I see.

 
At 26 July, 2011 17:29, Blogger Ian said...

All attitude, no substance from Mr. Fartbreath, I see.

Squeal squeal squeal!

 
At 26 July, 2011 17:55, Blogger M Gregory Ferris said...

I prefer Senior Pedo Gigante

 
At 26 July, 2011 18:04, Blogger Richard Gage's Testicles said...

Pat, we know what Mr. Clarke says, but that doesn't necessarily tell us what he believes.

By that reasoning, how do you know for sure that the widows really have questions?

 
At 27 July, 2011 00:11, Blogger snug.bug said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

 
At 27 July, 2011 00:27, Blogger snug.bug said...

MGF, Senor pedo pequeña de la boca.

RGT, there's a big difference. One makes the reasonable assumption that Clarke believes more than he's saying.

The other makes the unreasonable assumption that the widows are saying more than they believe.

 
At 28 July, 2011 07:41, Blogger WhyAskQuestions said...

Here's the thing Cpt. Obvious (Brian):

Your theories surrounding 9/11 are a pattern of inflammatory theories. You make use of murky methods to insinuate your claims, you bring up conspiracy theories of the past, you manipulate evidence to hide the holes in your theories. You rely on dubious academic sources that support no facts nor evidence. Therefore you're making it all up and essentually lying about everything.

 
At 28 July, 2011 09:16, Blogger snug.bug said...

Wow, thanks for letting me know!

If you ever come up with any specific complaints that are true,
I'll pay attention.

You probably lifted that boilerplate from JREF; given that it's spelled correctly you couldn't have written it yourself.

 
At 28 July, 2011 11:24, Blogger WhyAskQuestions said...

You probably lifted that boilerplate from JREF; given that it's spelled correctly you couldn't have written it yourself.

Guess you never heard of David Aaronovitch who's a book author of Conspiracy Theories, especially "VooDoo Histories".

 
At 28 July, 2011 11:41, Blogger snug.bug said...

Sure I know of Mr. Aaronivitch. I found his review of Mr. Gage's appearance in London quite amusing. Mr. A spent most of his time recapitulating an argument he'd had with some anti-semite who was in the audience, and had about nothing to say about Mr. Gage's material.

 
At 28 July, 2011 11:45, Blogger WhyAskQuestions said...

and had about nothing to say about Mr. Gage's material.

Alot of material in which Gage got his information is in the "VooDoo Histories book becasue alot of stuff he got was from David Ray Griffin (Grifter).

 
At 28 July, 2011 12:41, Blogger snug.bug said...

But Aaronovitch had almost nothing to say about Gage.

 
At 29 July, 2011 09:00, Blogger WhyAskQuestions said...

But Aaronovitch had almost nothing to say about Gage.

Becasue he doesn't give a shit about Gage becasue Gage is repeating what other Truthers have said. Guess you never read his book: VooDoo Histories.

 
At 29 July, 2011 11:12, Blogger snug.bug said...

I see no reason I should. Kicking conspiracy theorists is so easy it's hardly sporting, and the straw man arguments about conspiracists have been well-developed. Sounds like a very boring book.

 
At 29 July, 2011 16:50, Blogger paul w said...

I see no reason.
I should.


To understand Brian, read between the lines.

 
At 30 July, 2011 09:01, Blogger WhyAskQuestions said...

I see no reason I should. Kicking conspiracy theorists is so easy it's hardly sporting, and the straw man arguments about conspiracists have been well-developed. Sounds like a very boring book.

So you're saying that you are illiterate?

 
At 30 July, 2011 10:48, Blogger snug.bug said...

WAQo, I read and write all day every day.

 
At 31 July, 2011 16:19, Blogger Ian said...

I see no reason I should.

Of course not. You wouldn't want to risk shattering the mountain of delusions about 9/11 that you've created in a desperate attempt to make your life seem meaningful.

Kicking conspiracy theorists is so easy it's hardly sporting, and the straw man arguments about conspiracists have been well-developed.

Well, at least Brian concedes that Gage and Griffin are conspiracy theorists.

I actually don't think that they are. They know that 9/11 truth is bullshit. They just want to make money off of gullible idiots like you.

WAQo, I read and write all day every day.

Yeah, but you don't actually understand what you read. That's why you're so laughably wrong about Dr. Sunder and NIST, among other things.

 
At 31 July, 2011 23:33, Blogger snug.bug said...

Dr. Sunder told NOVA "The measurements have indicated that Tower One collapsed in about 11 seconds, and Tower Two collapsed in about 9 seconds."

Anybody who bothers to check the transcript can see that's true.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/tech/debunking-9-11-bomb-theories.html

You lie, and lie, and lie, and lie.

 
At 01 August, 2011 19:18, Blogger Ian said...

Dr. Sunder told NOVA "The measurements have indicated that Tower One collapsed in about 11 seconds, and Tower Two collapsed in about 9 seconds."

Brian, I've told you many times that repeating the same dumb lies isn't going to get the widows questions answered.

Anybody who bothers to check the transcript can see that's true.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/tech/debunking-9-11-bomb-theories.html


Then how come nobody sees it a glue-sniffing liar like you?

You lie, and lie, and lie, and lie.

Squeal squeal squeal!

 
At 01 August, 2011 19:38, Blogger snug.bug said...

Nobody sees it because nobody bothers to check.

 
At 01 August, 2011 19:56, Blogger Ian said...

Nobody sees it because nobody bothers to check.

False.

 
At 01 August, 2011 19:57, Blogger Ian said...

Anyway Brian, I don't think that Laurie Van Auken would appreciate you lying in order to try to get her questions answered, do you?

 
At 01 August, 2011 22:03, Blogger snug.bug said...

Ian, you're nothing but bullshit, as anyone who checks the links can see.

 
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