Clarke's Speculation
The Shenon article is here.
In the interview for the documentary, Clarke offers an incendiary theory that, if true, would rewrite the history of the 9/11 attacks, suggesting that the CIA intentionally withheld information from the White House and FBI in 2000 and 2001 that two Saudi-born terrorists were on U.S. soil – terrorists who went on to become suicide hijackers on 9/11.
But there is plenty of reason to doubt it. For one thing, Clarke himself admits that it's only a theory:
Clarke speculates – and readily admits he cannot prove -- that the CIA withheld the information because the agency had been trying to recruit the terrorists, while they were living in southern California under their own names, to work as CIA agents inside Al Qaeda.
For another, it's already been investigated, as the theory is nothing new:
The 9/11 Commission investigated widespread rumors in the intelligence community that the CIA tried to recruit the two terrorists—Clarke was not the first to suggest it—but the investigation revealed no evidence to support the rumors. The commission said in its final report that "it appears that no one informed higher levels of management in either the FBI or CIA" about the two terrorists.
Tenet denies it although that is unsurprising.
Also note that the producers of the new documentary (the same guys responsible for the Troofer-Lite 9-11 Press for Truth sat on this "explosive" theory for almost two years:
He did not reply to requests from The Daily Beast to expand on his comments or to explain why he has not repeated them publicly since the 2009 interview. The documentary’s producers, FF4 Films, said they had been in contact with Clarke this month and that he stood by his remarks in the broadcast.
Update: YouTube Video of the interview:
Labels: Philip Shenon, Press for Truth, Richard Clarke
posted by Pat @ 10:22 AM
206 comments
206 Comments:
You forgot this other article.
http://www.truth-out.org/former-counterterrorism-czar-accuses-tenet-other-cia-officials-cover/1313071564
So Jonny, what "diabolical" plot were you expecting from us? A strongly worded mocking with lots of adjectives and exclamation points? Oh the evil!
Here is Kevin Fenton's analysis on Tenet & Co's rebuttal.
http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20110811114054595
Can we have a real criminal investigation into 9/11 now?
Pat, "Press for Truth" is hardly "truther lite". It goes to the essential issues of letting Osama walk out of Tora Bora, Pakistani ties to al Qaeda, Condi's perjury, ignored intel warnings.
Why didn't Clarke say this while he was under oath in front of the commission?
Bullshit maybe? Me thinks so.
This underscores the atmosphere ultimately lead to the intelligences failures in the first place. Clarke is throwing bombs here to cover for his own failure(s).
Why didn't Clarke say this while he was under oath in front of the commission?
Bullshit maybe? Me thinks so.
To be fair, he did admit that he was speculating.
I speculate that Jon Gold is really a cross dressing hooker. I have no proof, and he virulently denies this, but I demand a real investigation to find out.
What? You never heard of Trannies For 9/11 Troof®?
Can we have a real criminal investigation into 9/11 now?
Not likely. Clarke's personal suspicions don't warrant a criminal investigation. Keep looking though.
MGF, as far as I know, the only thing that Clarke failed at was getting his urgent warnings past Condi's (and Zelikow's) gatekeeping.
George W. Bush could confess on national TV that he blew up the world trade center because he thought that was what was needed to galvanize national resolve, and you'd all be saying "But he didn't provide any proof that it was an inside job!"
...and you'd all be saying "But he didn't provide any proof that it was an inside job!"
That's probably true. False confessions are rather more common than you might think.
OT, and not Troof related, but 9/11 related -- a piece about the new construction at Ground Zero. It covers how emotional impulses eventually gave way to rational actions.
There's a little bit of fodder Larry Silverstein haters too.
But that would be based on actual firsthand knowledge of the events, not speculation.
Tenet, Black and Blee owe the public an explanation. Their self righteous act is total bullshit. Where is the Blee press conference? Would it be unfair for Blee to explain what he was doing?
Where is the SLC review of The Eleventh Day? In the book Summers and Swan admit they couldn't resolve the reason for the sharing failure. I have repeatedly posted John Farmer's comment that he doesn't know why the CIA sat on the information until late August. So it is ignorant for anyone to source the 9/11 Commission as a rebuttal to the notion that the CIA deliberately withheld the information. The 9/11 Commission failed to get a credible explanation.
Again I note the strange priority of SLC. For some reason Clarke is the problem for daring to suggest that all the official findings did not credibly explain CIA and FBI conduct. This is not a "truther" issue. This is about the public being jerked around by a bunch of officials who will not explain why they obstructed al Qaeda investigations. It is also about the failure of the media to do real journalism.
Again I note the strange priority of SLC.
Okay, a change of priorities:
http://www.boreme.com/posting.php?id=21861
You're full-of-manure up to your eyebrows, Track.
What part of "prior to 9/11 the CIA and FBI didn't share intelligence" don't the self-appointed 9/11 "truthers" understand?
The 9/11 Commission Report recommended that the CIA and FBI establish procedures for sharing intelligence. This goal was accomplished, and today the agencies share intelligence.
The reluctance of the CIA to share intelligence with the FBI was not obstruction of the investigation, it was standard operating procedure prior to 9/11.
Cretin.
No, Clarke can "dare to suggest" all he wants, but that doesn't mean we have to treat suggestion as fact.
In the end, everything about 9/11 Truth boils down to speculation. This instance is no different.
What part of "prior to 9/11 the CIA and FBI didn't share intelligence" don't the self-appointed 9/11 "truthers" understand?
This isn't a "truther" issue. Your intention to marginalize anyone who dares to the government is duly noted.
NARRATOR: Fearing an Al Qaeda terrorist may be headed to the U.S., the agents are determined to tell the FBI, but a CIA official will not allow it.
MARK ROSSINI: I guess I was the more senior agent. So I went up to the individual that had the ticket on the Yemeni cell, the Yemeni operatives. And I said to her, I said, "What's going on? You know, we've got to tell the Bureau about this. These guys clearly are bad. One of them, at least, has a multiple-entry visa to the U.S. We've got to tell the FBI."
And then she said to me, "No, it's not the FBI's case, not the FBI's jurisdiction."
So I go tell Doug. And I'm like, "Doug, what can we do?" If we had picked up the phone and called the Bureau, I would have been violating the law. I would have broken the law. I would have been removed from the building that day. I would have had my clearances suspended, and I would be gone.
JAMES BAMFORD: This is one of the most astonishing parts of the story. The CIA had FBI operatives working within their bin Laden unit, but when the FBI operatives found out that one, and possibly two, of the terrorists had visas to the United States, were heading for the United States, the CIA wouldn't let them tell their headquarters that they were coming. Only the FBI could have put out alerts to stop Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi if they tried to enter the United States.
The Spy Factory
As noted in The Eleventh Day by Anthony Summers and Robbyn Swan, when the CIA finally told the FBI in late August of '01, FBI UBLU IOS Dina Corsi told the Cole investigators they couldn't be involved in an investigation so she instead tasked a single intel side agent to find al-Hazmi and al-Mihdhar. Even worse the intel search was given no priority.What Summers and Swan do not mention is a 9/11 Commission footnote that rebuts Corsi's claim of being confused by the wall. The footnote notes that UBLU lawyer Sherry Sabol did not give Corsi advice to keep the criminal side out of the loop.
Where is the press coference with Corsi? Would be unfair for her to explain why she obstructed both the Cole investigation and the search for two al Qaeda operatives?
Thanks for proving my point, cretin.
The text you cut-and-paste clearly states "...the agents are determined to tell the FBI, but a CIA official will not allow it."
As I stated up-thread, prior to 9/11 the CIA and FBI didn't share intelligence. Refusal to share intelligence was SOP prior to 9/11. Thus, your "obstruction of the investigation" assertion is nonsense.
Arguments from incredulity are not evidence, cretin.
Explain the contradiction in CIA conduct. How on earth did they expect to prevent the attack they were concerned about if the FBI wasn't in the loop?
Explain Corsi's conduct.
Oh, I forgot the article by Jason "Rove has been indicted for Plamegate" Leopold? One of the few people who actually has less credibility than Richard Clarke.
Track wrote, "...Explain the contradiction in CIA conduct. How on earth did they expect to prevent the attack they were concerned about if the FBI wasn't in the loop?...Explain Corsi's conduct."
It's not incumbent on me to prove or disprove your idiotic argument--you logical fallacy spewing retard.
Read the verbiage you cut-and-paste:
"...If we had picked up the phone and called the Bureau, I would have been violating the law. I would have broken the law. I would have been removed from the building that day. I would have had my clearances suspended, and I would be gone."
Again, what part of the CIA and FBI didn't share intelligence prior to 9/11 don't you understand?
Beyond parody.
Oh, and on the 11th Day, I have not yet received my review copy. But you can rest assure that I will read it promptly on arrival.
GuitarBill you must be a journalist. That would explain your complete trust in authority and lack of curiosity.
That's not an answer, Track, it's an evasion.
Again, what part of "the CIA and FBI didn't share intelligence prior to 9/11" don't you understand?
Obviously, at the time, it was against the law for the CIA to contact the FBI and share intelligence.
The CIA followed the letter of the law. That's not "obstruction of the investigation," it's adherence to established and documented procedure.
And no, I'm not a "journalist," I'm a computer scientist.
George W. Bush could confess on national TV that he blew up the world trade center because he thought that was what was needed to galvanize national resolve, and you'd all be saying "But he didn't provide any proof that it was an inside job!"
Yes, and you could admit that you stalk Carol Brouillet, have other internet handles like "petgoat" and "punxsutawneybarney", ran away squealing and crying from debate challenges from Rodriguez and Ranke, and that you have a homosexual obsession with Kevin Barrett, and we'd still call you a liar.
GuitarBill you must be a journalist. That would explain your complete trust in authority and lack of curiosity.
Wow, this is Brian Good-level squealing.
I'm also amused at the usual call for a new criminal investigation. Who exactly would the Truthers suggest be the investigators? Not the police, certainly and not the FBI, presumably. A panel made up of Richard Gage, Mike Gravel, David Ray Grifter and Patty Casazza?
"Obviously, at the time, it was against the law for the CIA to contact the FBI and share intelligence."
You are wrong and this proves it at the very end of this report is the following....
"It is clear therefore,that the information sharing failures in the summer of 2001 were not the result of legal barriers but of the 'failure of individuals to understand that the barriers did not apply to the facts at hand. Simply put,there was no legal reason why the information could not have been shared."
http://www.fas.org/irp/eprint/wall.pdf
Pat wrote, "...A panel made up of Richard Gage, Mike Gravel, David Ray Grifter and Patty Casazza?"
Don't you mean Kangaroo Court?
Ian wrote, "...Wow, this is Brian Good-level squealing."
LOL!
%^)
Who exactly would the Truthers suggest be the investigators? A panel made up of Richard Gage, Mike Gravel, David Ray Grifter and Patty Casazza?
Please, please make it so!
It would be hilarious!
Shit for brains wrote, "...You are wrong and this proves it at the very end of this report is the following..."
No, that doesn't prove anything. And it certainly doesn't prove that the CIA "obstructed the investigation."
Again, the CIA and FBI didn't share intelligence prior to 9/11. That's why the 9/11 Commission Report recommended that the two agencies establish a procedure to share intelligence.
You're grasping at straws, nut bag, and your desperation is palpable.
FAIL
This comment has been removed by the author.
I'm also amused at the usual call for a new criminal investigation. Who exactly would the Truthers suggest be the investigators? Not the police, certainly and not the FBI, presumably. A panel made up of Richard Gage, Mike Gravel, David Ray Grifter and Patty Casazza?
That's a good question. If the goal is a bipartisan investigation, one wonders what would be considered bipartisan by the truthers. Beween The 9/11 Commission, NIST, etc... they don't really seem to support any organizations. So what could really be done at the political level? Simultaneously, they can't just put their own guys on a panel, no more than anyone could take the SLC readers and call them legitimate investigators.
Dumbass wrote..""Obviously, at the time, it was against the law for the CIA to contact the FBI and share intelligence."
Dumbass is wrong....."It is clear therefore,that the information sharing failures in the summer of 2001 were not the result of legal barriers but of the 'failure of individuals to understand that the barriers did not apply to the facts at hand. Simply put,there was no legal reason why the information could not have been shared."
http://www.fas.org/irp/eprint/wall.pdf
Dumbass wrote....."Again, the CIA and FBI didn't share intelligence prior to 9/11."
Dumbass is wrong....
"Passing of intelligence information by the CIA to the FBI"
"The CIA shares intelligence with the rest of the Intelligence Community through a communication known as a “TD” (“Telegraphic Dissemination”). TDs can be sent to other Intelligence Community agencies, including the FBI, and are available to the Intelligence Community through the Intelink system."
"Another type of intelligence report used by the CIA when conducting business with other agencies is a CIR, or “Central Intelligence Report.” CIRs are used for disseminating information to a specific agency or group of agencies. CIRs to the FBI normally concern something occurring in the United States, involving a U.S. person or an ongoing FBI investigation."
"In addition to formal methods of communicating by the CIA to the FBI, much information can be shared with the FBI informally. CIA and FBI employees who have similar positions and expertise develop relationships and communicate informally while working together on related matters, either by secure telephones or in person. In addition, meetings are sometimes held to discuss a matter or a piece of intelligence that is of value to both agencies. According to the CIA employees we interviewed, when the CIA passed intelligence information or other kinds of information verbally or by another informal mechanism to the FBI, the information exchange normally would be documented through a TD or a CIR. However, they said that not every telephone call or conversation was documented."
http://www.justice.gov/oig/special/0506/chapter5.htm
Hey Dumbass if the CIA and FBI can't share intelligence then why were both staffed at the Bin Laden Unit?
Answer: Because you are a dumbass that doesn't know what you are talking about
Clarke said that Tenet and Black and 50 CIA agents knew about Hazmi and al-Mihdhar. Is that correct? Let's not forget he claimed in his book that people we know didn't participated in the crisis teleconference.
Right, Arcterus, nothing can be done. No blue-ribbon panel can be created, no one can be believed, no one can be trusted, the world is utterly fucked, so lets all just give up and play video games, right?
There were many reasons why they didn't share intelligence. One was because they didn't trust each other. Each thought the other would screw it up. The FBI is a law and order strictly by the book organization that need everything to legitimate, otherwise the perps get off on a technicality in court of law. The CIA could care less about that, they just want to round up the bad guys their way.
There was also a perception of a "wall" that existed between the agencies. In truth, there was no restriction, but that was the perception. Further, there was a general hatred and jealousy between the agencies.
And could go on, including the piss poor gathering of intelligence etc.
There were many problems, but deliberately allowing a crime to happen: highly unlikely. I think this is no more than Clarke trying to boost book sales.
Right, Arcterus, nothing can be done. No blue-ribbon panel can be created, no one can be believed, no one can be trusted, the world is utterly fucked, so lets all just give up and play video games, right?
Nothing is funnier than the bitter squealing of a burnt-out relic of the 1960s who can't even mop floors correctly.
Brian, I don't play video games. Instead, I spend a good amount of my time working behind the scenes in Washington to ensure that the widows questions will never be answered.
Then, after a long day at work, I come home to make fun of you for wearing women's underwear and for lusting after Willie Rodriguez.
RGT wrote: False confessions are rather more common than you might think.
Thanks for proving my point. GWB could confess that he blew up the WTC, and you guys would just say--"No, we have no need to investigate his claims. Obviously it's a false confession."
Thanks for proving my point. GWB could confess that he blew up the WTC, and you guys would just say--"No, we have no need to investigate his claims. Obviously it's a false confession."
As long as we're playing make-believe, we might as well pretend that you graduated from college with an engineering degree, have a nice job as a consultant, have a happy marriage to Willie Rodriguez (in New York, of course. It's illegal in California for now...) and don't spend every waking hour posting nonsense on an obscure blog
Ian, even if I were gay I would never marry a scumbag like Willie Rodriguez.
Not to mention he's fat and not real bright.
Ian, even if I were gay I would never marry a scumbag like Willie Rodriguez.
Not to mention he's fat and not real bright.
Willie Rodriguez is an American hero, just like the SEALs who nailed bin Laden.
You are a liar and lunatic and sex stalker who can't even mop floors correctly.
Rodriguez will be honored on the 10th anniversary of the attacks.
You will spend that day squealing and babbling and calling people "girls" on this blog.
This comment has been removed by the author.
This comment has been removed by the author.
Willie Rodriguez is a swindler who stole his story from a real hero, Pablo Ortiz, and has been dining out on it ever since.
Rodriguez may be honored by people who are ignorant that he's a fraud, but if they knew what he's done they would spit in his face.
He's a shit-stained Hudson River Whitefish, and will be until he admits that he lied and promises to be truthful evermore.
If I was in NYC I would definitely go call him out for a fraud. He hasn't dared to show his face in the Bay Area in 4 years and he won't because he knows I will expose him for a low-down swindler.
Goat fucker,
You're not fit to wipe Willie's ass for a living. After all, he's a hero, as was confirmed my Officer Lim, and you're an insane liar who wears women's underwear.
UtterFail, anybody who bothers to check Willie's story can see that it's a lie from beginning to end, and he stole his glory from a true hero, Pablo Ortiz, who died when the tower csme down.
Real heroes don't need to lie about their deeds.
Are you calling Officer Lim a liar, cretin? Why don't you go to New York City, find Officer Lim, and call him a liar, goat fucker. When you return from your month-long stay in the local ICU, let us know how it worked out for you, Pinocchio.
Brian Good did not have the guts and never will, to go to New York and face Rodriguez, it will be the ultimate embarrassment and humiliation to him, to see the victims and survivors support Willie and laugh at Brian's stupidity. Of course, we will have IAN there to report to us!
So Brian, we double dare you to go there.
Note that Brian does not come up with a suggested investigative team; neither does Jon Gold. This is really where the whole "we just want a new investigation" is exposed for the BS that it is. There is no investigation that would satisfy them.
GWB could confess that he blew up the WTC, and you guys would just say--"No, we have no need to investigate his claims. Obviously it's a false confession."
Confessions that don't match the evidence are generally false confessions. It happens frequently.
There's no evidence the WTC was blown up, ergo a confession to having done so is probably false. Not sure why you're having such a hard time with this.
This is really where the whole "we just want a new investigation" is exposed for the BS that it is. There is no investigation that would satisfy them.
They don't want a new investigation at all. They want new conclusions.
Poor Brian. He's obsessed with the man he once called a "strutting, bragging, lying, fabulous Latin dreamboat" and can't deal with the fact that Rodriguez doesn't want a homosexual relationship with him.
I can't wait for Brian's deranged babbling on the 10th anniversary when Rodriguez is honored as a hero. Brian, on the other hand, is such a coward that he ran away squealing and crying from a debate challenge from Rodriguez.
If I was in NYC I would definitely go call him out for a fraud.
No you wouldn't. You'd run away squealing and crying from him as you did before.
He hasn't dared to show his face in the Bay Area in 4 years and he won't because he knows I will expose him for a low-down swindler.
Brian, you've never exposed anything except your junk to disgusted people in Union Square in San Francisco. You're terrified of Rodriguez, which is why you ran away squealing and crying from a debate challenge from him.
Right, Arcterus, nothing can be done. No blue-ribbon panel can be created, no one can be believed, no one can be trusted, the world is utterly fucked, so lets all just give up and play video games, right?
Actually, my argument is that there's no need for an investigation in the first place. However, the question was posed who you would accept on a panel for an investigation. They would need to be qualified but unbiased. If you think you have an answer, then by all means, enlighten us. Don't dance around the question.
Ian, your claims are getting gaudier and gaudier.
If I ever called Willie "fabulous," I was being arch. But it's certainly appropriate to call a fabulist literally fabulous.
Ian wrote, "...Brian, you've never exposed anything except your junk to disgusted people in Union Square in San Francisco."
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Ian said...
Poor Brian. He's obsessed with the man he once called a "strutting, bragging, lying, fabulous Latin dreamboat" and can't deal with the fact that Rodriguez doesn't want a homosexual relationship with him.
Rodriguez said:I know, Brian, you want to see my weasel pop. But I will not allow you to be my gay stalker. I am married, please stay away from me! Yuk!
18 May, 2011 14:47
Brian Good aka snug.bug says:"
Ian, even if I were gay I would never marry a scumbag like Willie Rodriguez.
Not to mention he's fat and not real bright.
Are you aware he lost weight? so you need to cling to a different insult. LOL
IAN says: I can't wait for Brian's deranged babbling on the 10th anniversary when Rodriguez is honored as a hero. Brian, on the other hand, is such a coward that he ran away squealing and crying from a debate challenge from Rodriguez.
Yes, it will be meltdown for Brian, who said and I repost: Brian Good says:
"You will never be in the news."
Well I bet more than 80 million people will hear his story, compared to Brian's 8 followers.
Have you called Shyam Sunder yet?
Have you called Carol yet?
Have you called Visibility911 yet?
Have you called Glen Zarmanoff yet?
Have you called the Port Authority yet?
Have you called your parents yet?
Have you called C-Span yet?
my questions is for JON GOLD.
Mr. Gold, you apparently know both persons, William Rodriguez and Brian Good,
Do you support Brian Good's obsession with Willie Rodriguez?
Do you agree with Brian Good's attacks of Rodriguez and Carol Brouillet? Please clarify your position for us. Thanks.
I never attacked Carol Brouillet. I asked her what the hell she was doing supporting a liar and a bigot. She never had a very good answer for the question.
It's not attacking Willie to point out that he's a swindling fraud. That's simply the truth. He stole his hero story from a true hero, Pablo Ortiz, and he's been dining out on Mr. Ortiz's glory ever since. Probably y'all admire Willie 'cause he does such a great job of making fools out of the people who believe his lies.
SHHHhhh, Silence Bitch! nobody's talking to you. My question is directed to Mr. Gold, not you.
As long as you're quizzing Mr. Gold, ask him if he knows when and where Willie raised $122 million.
Don't tell me what to ask.
If you have an issue with Mr. Gold, ask him yourself.
I don't know Mr. Gold. But I do know Mr. Rodriguez, and he is about the lowest scumbag I've ever met.
Brian, are you going to answer who you would accept on a panel or will you admit that you don't have an answer?
Jon, feel free to answer this as well, if you're still reading.
This comment has been removed by the author.
Brian "the bitch" Good, AKA snug.bug said...
I don't know Mr. Gold. But I do know Mr. Rodriguez, and he is about the lowest scumbag I've ever met.
your point of view of course. Apparently the victims and the family members do not share your view. See the new People Magazine in Español. Just came out on the Newsstands.
Not bad for somebody you said the following about: "You will never be in the news."
another one in your face, bitch!
"MGF, as far as I know, the only thing that Clarke failed at was getting his urgent warnings past Condi's (and Zelikow's) gatekeeping."
Dr. Rice and Zelikow were in the Clinton Administration? Because He had 8 fucking years to deal with Al Qaeda. He didn't.
Besides, if the CIA was trying to recruit the hijackers (which is part of their job) then that means there was no thermite in the WTC because the attacks happened just the way the official story says they did.
Either way, Clarke is full of shit and he knows it. This is his way of sandbagging the agency for no sucking his **** whenever he requested, and Mr. Clarke has access to all kinds of classified stuff that he could release to slim Bush and the GOP any time he wanted to. He hasn't because there is nothing.
Oh, sabba thinks "People en Español" is news. LOL! That shows why you're dumb enough to believe Willie's fabulations.
MGF, thanks for showing your kneejerk ideological bias. Clinton was not reponsible for the fact that Condi ignored the al Qaeda threat. Let's see--they attacked the Cole in October 2000, Bush took power in January 2001 and did NOT A DAMNED THING for eight months in spite of the fact that Clarke and Tenet were running around with their hair on fire. And that's Clinton's fault, how?
Your irrationality is of the simple "I can't have a flat tire! I just bought a new battery last week!" variety.
An attempt by one arm of the CIA to recruit operatives who may well already have been CIA assets has nothing to do with whether thermite was used in the towers. You'll have to explain your logic on that.
You really need to get an education. You have clearly lied about your alleged geological studies at CSUMB because you don't under stand basic concepts in physics and chemistry that any geo major should have.
So Jon Gold -- is it fair to say at this point that you misjudged the impact this news was going to have?
And what did Raw Story tell snowcrash? Apparently is was such a bitch-slap, he's ashamed to share it.
" War Criminal-Baby-Killer snug.bug said...
Oh, sabba thinks "People en Español" is news. LOL! That shows why you're dumb enough to believe Willie's fabulations."
So your racism extends to Hispanics as well. This explains your irrational contempt for Willie Rodriguez.
"MGF, thanks for showing your kneejerk ideological bias. Clinton was not reponsible for the fact that Condi ignored the al Qaeda threat. "
There was an Al qaeda threat because Clinton didn't deal with it. If Clinton didn't take the threat seriously why should Rice?
"Let's see--they attacked the Cole in October 2000, Bush took power in January 2001 and did NOT A DAMNED THING for eight months in spite of the fact that Clarke and Tenet were running around with their hair on fire. And that's Clinton's fault, how?"
The first WTC bombing was in 1993. If Clinton had done his job the USS Cole would never have been bombed,9/11 wouldn't have happened, and Iraq and Afghanistan would still be something PBS whines about.
"You really need to get an education. You have clearly lied about your alleged geological studies at CSUMB because you don't under stand basic concepts in physics and chemistry that any geo major should have."
Blow me, Bush-Bot.
You're a war-criminal, Brain, a baby-killing war monger. You and the troofers undermined the ant-war movement. Worse, you made the war sustainable because there is no credible opposition to the war. Why? Because when some reasoned, responsible person tried to speak against the war there was some dickless wonder with a "9/11 was an inside job!" standing in the background.
Who are you really working for Brian? Lockheed? Boeing? Colt? E-Systems? How much are they paying you to sit at your computer and keep the war going for ten years?
Shut up, murderer.
MGF, my contempt for Willie R is hardly irrational. He marched up the stairs with other men. They died, he didn't. And he stole their glory for his lying hero tales. I've met a lot of scurvy dogs in my life, but he is the lowest scumbag I've ever met. I'll say so to his face if he ever dares to show up in the Bay Area. And he won't.
Under Clinton a plan was prepared to go after al Qaeda which would have been put in place soon after the Cole attack except that the Supreme Court handed the election to Bush. The ball was in his court, and he tossed it in the crapper.
Clinton did his job. He captured the 93 bombers, he captured the Millenium bomber, and he prepared a plan for going after al Qaeda. Bush ignored the plan.
You lied about your education, and now you're just raving. Why don't you go to junior college and make something of yourself?
I've met a lot of scurvy dogs in my life, but he is the lowest scumbag I've ever met. I'll say so to his face if he ever dares to show up in the Bay Area. And he won't.
Right, because he is ultra-scared of you, right? Hahaha...I do love the delusions of grandeur you feed yourself, Brian. In particular, you think you're much smarter than you really are, to the point that you think Willie Rodriguez is afraid to debate you (as he offers to debate you...and you decline...). The reality, Brian, is that a chipmunk would not be afraid to debate you. About anything.
I happen to be a long-time chess player, and I imagine you'd be very poor at it. You know why? Because you think every move you make is checkmate. Then when someone points out that it isn't and puts you in check, rather than save your king, you ignore it and insist you won via checkmate. That is what your debating style is like. It's not any sort of brilliancy that overwhelms the expectations and imaginations of your opponent, it's not any level of tactic or strategy to outplay your opponent, it is simply the insistence that you one the second you entered the match. It's pathetic and does little to support the superior ways you frequently describe yourself.
Brian Good, the lying Yenta, AKA-snug.bug said...
Oh, sabba thinks "People en Español" is news. LOL! That shows why you're dumb enough to believe Willie's fabulations.
Beyond parody! So a National Magazine mainly for Show bussiness decides to honor victims of 9/11 and you decide to rain on their parade, HA! oh what I see in the article, Ortiz family with Willie! may it be a different Ortiz family?
Interesting coming from somebody who couple of months said:"You will never be in the news."
Brian Good sayd:I've met a lot of scurvy dogs in my life, but he is the lowest scumbag I've ever met. I'll say so to his face if he ever dares to show up in the Bay Area. And he won't.
We have seen otherwise so please stop with your wannabe macho bravado, is not impressing anybody here. A man of your convictions should go to New York City on 9/11 and show respect to the victims and expose Willie on his own turf like he offered to do it to you at Palo Alto but you refused. It will never happen 'cause you are afraid and a pussy. Bitch!
sabba, Willie rains on the family members' parade. They are going to be much embarrassed when they realize that they've honored a lying con artist.
There's nothing macho about calling Willie out for a disgusting swindler. That's simple human decency. A woman or a child can do it just as well.
I wouldn't fly to Los Angeles for a dinky rotten fish like Willie, let alone New York.
If it's true that theOrtiz family appears with Willie, it only goes to prove my point: People that meet Willie can not conceive of the idea that anybody could be as much of a turd as he is, and so they are blind to his obvious lies.
Hey Brian Good, 10 years and Rodriguez is still going and gets the love of the victims and the families while you get the hate of them. Doesn't that gives you a hint?
I wouldn't fly to Los Angeles for a dinky rotten fish like Willie, let alone New York.
Thanks for proving once again Ian's, Pat's MGF,Arcterus, Guitarbills and my statements about you. My oh my, so predictable.
Sabba, not one family member has ever given any hate to me. Only Willie's lying sockpuppets, and his bigoted friends like Kevin Barrett.
How come not one family member will come forward and say "Willie saved my loved one's life, and I will be eternally grateful." NOT ONE!
Willie is a con artist, and clearly the family members can not conceive of the notion that anybody could be enough of a turd to lie about that day.
Well, Willie is that turd.
When did he raise that $225 million? He's a liar.
The goat fucker squeals, "...Willie is a con artist, and clearly the family members can not conceive of the notion that anybody could be enough of a turd to lie about that day."
Why?
After all, you're a "turd" who constantly lies about "that day."
Projection, thy name is troofer.
Guitarbill said it correctly.
Projection, thy name is troofer.
UtterFail, you dispose of pesky truths by simply labeling them lies, and your credulous acceptance of Willie's impossible tales shows you to be unskilled in critical thinking.
"You will never be in the news."
BUAWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I wouldn't fly to Los Angeles for a dinky rotten fish like Willie, let alone New York.
BUAWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA
Ian, even if I were gay I would never marry a scumbag like Willie Rodriguez.
BUAWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
The goat fucker squeals, "...you dispose of pesky truths by simply labeling them lies."
Wrong again, Pinocchio.
I expose your lies and propaganda with reliable sources and unimpeachable logic.
For example, are you calling Officer Lim a liar?
As I pointed out up-thread, why don't you go to New York City, find Officer Lim, and call him a liar, goat fucker. When you return from your month-long stay in the local ICU, let us know how it worked out for you.
Guitarbill says:>As I pointed out up-thread, why don't you go to New York City, find Officer Lim, and call him a liar, goat fucker. When you return from your month-long stay in the local ICU, let us know how it worked out for you.
GB, we both know he doesn't have the money and he doesn't have the guts, he will never even show to NY to show respect to the victims.
"You lied about your education, and now you're just raving. Why don't you go to junior college and make something of yourself?
"
Classes start on the 22nd. So blow be, or in your case - stalk me.
You've murdered thousands of Afghans and Iraqis with your 9/11 lies.
You can't slime Willie Rodriguez because his account has been varified by non-sex criminals.
"Clinton did his job. He captured the 93 bombers, "
...but he didn't prevent the bombing.
"...he captured the Millenium bomber..."
No, Customs caught him because they thought he was smuggling drugs.
"Under Clinton a plan was prepared to go after al Qaeda which would have been put in place soon after the Cole attack..."
Clinton didn't do shit. The investigation would take months and the Clinton State Department hamstringed the FBI agents in Yeman to top things off. So if Clinton didn't take it seriously why would Bush?
"I've met a lot of scurvy dogs in my life, but he is the lowest scumbag I've ever met. I'll say so to his face if he ever dares to show up in the Bay Area."
Translation: Willie is 1000 times the man I will ever be. I'm jealous of him and Carol because she's not into psychopaths.
Good to see Brian still babbling about American hero Willie Rodriguez.
Brian, isn't it interesting that Carol Brouillet is friends with Rodriguez and yet hates you? Maybe that's because he's a hero and you've an perverted lunatic stalker who wears lingerie?
"Hey Dumbass if the CIA and FBI can't share intelligence then why were both staffed at the Bin Laden Unit?
"
I have a better question, why didn't the FBI's bin Laden desk communicate with the FBI counter-terrorism desk?
To answer your inspired question I would point out that the original CIA head of Alec Station (the "Bin Laden Unit" you misnamed), Michael Scheuer (CIA), and the FBI's AQ expert, John O'Neil were both reassigned because they didn't play well together.
You can read about how well the FBI and CIA worked together in this piece from Vanity Fair:
http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2004/11/path-to-9-11-200411
This article underscores what a self-centered douchebag Clarke is as well. The fact is that egoes got in the way. It is as simple (and sad) as that.
Anyone else notice that this entire claim seems to be Richard Clarke saying, "I stopped getting a report, and didn't bother to call around about it despite its widespread availability?" How is this not a scandal about Clarke's own laziness?
so nice blog, your posting is great, we give u Plastic Cards ,do you like it ??
UtterFail, why would I call David Lim a liar? Do you not find it strange that Willie's schtick recites dramatic dialogue that Willie claims took place with officer Lim, but Mr. Lim nowhere mentions Willie in his statement to the 9/11 Commission? Not once? Is that any way to treat a hero?
Sabba, I don't need to come to New York to show respect to the victims. I show my respect to the victims by stomping 9/11 liars like Willie Rodriguez, Kevin Barrett, and Craig Ranke into dust.
MGF, Willie's account has been "varified" all right. It's variant from every other person's account. It's not verified by any credible person. I don't need to slime Willie. He slimes himself.
The plans for the 1993 bombing were known to the FBI for a full year before it came off. When their informant wanted to denature the bomb, his supervisors wouldn't let him. Six people died.
Why wouldn't Bush take al Qaeda seriously? Because they'd bombed two embassies, bombed the USS Cole, and there were warnings from 13 foreign countries that they were planning a big attack. The Mossad warned of 19 terrorists inside the US. Putin warned of suicide pilots training for attacks in the US. Clarke and Tenet and Blee and Black were running around with their hair on fire. But Bush was busy cutting brush in Crawford.
MGF, Richard Clarke says the intel was not shared because of orders from the top. One of the first things Bush did as President was to order the FBI to go easy on the Saudis, including the bin Ladens.
The goat fucker squeals, "...UtterFail, why would I call David Lim a liar?"
You ARE calling Officer Lim a liar. After all, Officer Lim said of Willie, "...This is the true HERO of 9/11."
So if you're not calling Officer Lim a liar, what are you calling him--you duplicitous degenerate?
If Willie is the true hero of 9/11, why did David Lim leave Willie out of his testimony to the 9/11 Commission?
Maybe he found out something about Willie that he didn't know before. Like maybe that Willie's claims were all lies?
Any thinking person can see the holes in Willie's story in an instant.
I think we have different definitions of "thinking person".
I have no doubt that we do.
I'd categorize those of us who care enough about reality to distinguish amongst our axioms, our pragmatic assumptions, our hypotheses, our speculations, our conclusions, our wishful or fearful "thinking," and facts; who question the reliabilty of our sources, and who do not tolerate lying among our colleagues as thinkers.
Willie Rodriguez's lies are obvious. He claims he saved hundreds of people were trapped behind locked fire exit doors.
For this tale to work, only the doors on his 39 floors were locked, because if the doors on other floors were locked, then thousands wold have died on the floors he couldn't get to.
The goat fucker lies, "...If Willie is the true hero of 9/11, why did David Lim leave Willie out of his testimony to the 9/11 Commission?"
Logical fallacy: Red herring (a deliberate attempt to divert attention).
That proves ABSOLUTELY NOTHING--you illogical fool.
Officer Lim stated FOR THE RECORD: "...This is the TRUE HERO of 9/11."
What part of "true hero" don't you understand, goat fucker?
I'd categorize those of us who care enough about reality to distinguish amongst our axioms, our pragmatic assumptions, our hypotheses, our speculations, our conclusions, our wishful or fearful "thinking," and facts; who question the reliabilty of our sources, and who do not tolerate lying among our colleagues as thinkers.
Okay, I think you need to do some SERIOUS self-reflection.
I almost want to believe this is all a joke. Like you're just trolling everyone with comments like that, and secretly you're actually a reasonably smart guy who just has nothing better to do. Alas, the truth seems to be that you're a ridiculously stupid guy who just has nothing better to do.
UtterFail, Lim's omission of mention of Rodriguez in his 9/11 Commission testimony suggests that he changed his mind about Willie's hero status. People often do. I, for instance, gave him the benefit of the doubt for way too long because I really wanted to believe his wonderful story. And even when I started to doubt it, I asked questions because I wanted to be proven wrong. And nobody would answer the questions. They responded only with personal attack.
Arcterus, would you care to favir us with your definition of a thinker?
The goat fucker lies, "...Lim's omission of mention of Rodriguez in his 9/11 Commission testimony suggests that he changed his mind about Willie's hero status."
False.
Officer Lim was standing next to Willie while CNN's Aaron Brown interviewed them. Why didn't Lim say something like "that's not true, Willie"?
"...And I came back running into the building. And the only person that I found there was Officer David Lim. And the first thing that he told me was, Willie (ph), do you have the key. Meaning if I had the master key to the building, which I have and I still have. It's over here. This is the key that opened all the doors on the staircase. It's called a T2 (ph) key. And he said let's go...We got to remember that the World Trade Center was a Class A building which had three doors that did not open and one that did open. And we have to go floor by floor and opening all the doors." -- William Rodriguez
Aaron Brown Interviews Officer Lim and Willie Rodriguez.
Thus, they both went up the stairs. And notice that Lim agrees with Willie. Otherwise he would have something like, "...that's not true, Willie."
Officer Lim then states, "...Upon my arrival on the 44th floor, I started evacuating those on the floor towards my stairway. I heard an explosion & as I looked to my left, a fireball blew out the windows, knocking us to the ground. I knew now that we were under attack & proceeded down the stairway with my people. On the way down, WE [not "I"] cleared floors of any remaining employees."
Statement of David Lim to the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States March 31, 2003.
Next, we have the following:
"...I literally had to kick him out. This guy [Rodriguez] wanted to stay with me all the time...This is the true hero of 9/11." -- Officer David Lim
Reunion between Rodriguez and PA Lim with subtitles.
That Officer Lim failed to mention Willie to the 9/11 Commission means nothing. After all, he also failed to mention the names of the NY & NJ Port Authority personnel who accompanied them as they rescued the occupants. Does that also mean the NY & NJ Port Authority employees lied about saving occupants who were trapped? Of course not. FACT: You reserve your contempt for the Puerto Rican (Willie) hero because you're a petty, sniveling racist who is jealous of Willie's friendship with the woman whose marriage you tried to destroy, Carol Brouillet.
Your argument is a red herring--ie., bullshit.
FAIL
UtterFail, your confirmation bias is showing. Yeah, we all want to believe Willie, 'cause it's such a great story. Silence is not corroboration. There is no corroboration. What trapped people did Lim and his crew save? Pablo Ortiz saved trapped people on the 89th and 90th floor, but that was where the partitions got sprung from the impact.
That Willie's story is a lie is proven by the death statistics. 99% of the civilians under the impact zones survived, with Willie's help or in spite of it.
Ask him about the $122 million he raised. Ask him about the 15 single-handed rescues he claims. He's a liar, and he stole the glory from a true hero, Pablo Ortiz.
The goat fucker squeals, "...What trapped people did Lim and his crew save?"
See what I mean?
You ARE calling Officer Lim a liar. Oh, that's right. Officer Lim is ASAIN; thus, you lie about Officer Lim for the same reason you lie about Willie--racism.
Answer the question, goat fucker:
"...That Officer Lim failed to mention Willie to the 9/11 Commission means nothing. After all, he also failed to mention the names of the NY & NJ Port Authority personnel who accompanied them as they rescued the occupants. Does that also mean the NY & NJ Port Authority employees lied about saving occupants who were trapped?"
FAIL
Thank you guys. I see Brian Good is still spewing his hate and racism here. Since he failed to accept my debate on his own town last time, and he failed to call those he supposedly wanted to host an alternate debate. Including people who do not want to deal with him. (I called all of them and they do not want anything to do with him) I will raise the ante here.
I invite Brian Good to come to NYC on 9/11 to meet with LT. Lim and I in person. Notice I said "invite" and not "challenge". We are both going to be at Ground zero for the ceremony and he can "ask" any questions he wants to both of us or separately. Also , he will have the opportunity to meet with some of the families he has offended here with his statements and present his case against me. Of course he needs to let me know by next week so I can put it all together since as you all may know, survivors are not invited to participate this year, let alone people not affected directly by the event. As a Leader of a family group I may be able to accommodate an exception if he so wishes to accept the invitation. Also in case he cannot make it for 9/11, then 9/12 will be the other option for the opening of the Memorial Center. A unique opportunity to see a historical event live even if he wishes to avoid me. Of Course, he will have to pay his own way to NYC. This is your last opportunity to unmask me as you say, in front of the 9/11 families. directly. How can you let this pass you by?
I need to know by the 22nd.
Willie,
Perhaps you can ask Pat and James B. if they're willing to host a debate between you, Officer Lim and the goat fucker. Personally, I'd love to hear Officer Lim give his side of the story, which I'm certain will prove beyond a doubt that you're telling the truth.
Failing that, perhaps Officer Lim can write a short description of the day's events as concerns your heroics on 9/11 and post it to SLC.
That is a great idea. Let's get this guy to face him first. I will ask him at the ceremony if BG does not shows up. Since he is a higher rank officer now and with a whole airport under his command he is very busy indeed. Thanks for the idea.
Willie, don't sweat it, this asshole will never agree to a debate on SLC. Let alone, meeting with the Hero David Lim.
Willie,
Thanks. Perhaps the best course of action is to have Officer Lim write a short comment that refutes the goat fucker's propaganda and post it to SLC. Or, better still, Officer Lim can e-mail his response to Pat or James B. I'm certain that both Pat and James B. would happily make Officer Lim's response the subject of an SLC blog post. Officer Lim's testimony will end the debate once and for all.
Willie,
Officer Lim can e-mail James B. at the following:
chiefb-at-gmail.com
(Be sure to replace "-at-" with "@").
GB said: Officer Lim's testimony will end the debate once and for all.
GB, we both know it will not, he will then claim that Lim is covering for me, etc. or switch to another attack. I know this guy to be a pest and will never accept the evidence even if it hits him in the face. He will mumble the same questions over and over and over and will never face me. Wait and see.
Officer Lim can e-mail James B. at the following:
chiefb-at-gmail.com
Thanks again Guitarbill! I have both emails from my challenge in the past against Brian Good and have exchanged emails with both.
Willie wrote, "...GB, we both know it will not, he will then claim that Lim is covering for me, etc. or switch to another attack. I know this guy to be a pest and will never accept the evidence even if it hits him in the face. He will mumble the same questions over and over and over and will never face me. Wait and see."
Fair enough.
The point, however, is to consistently bring the debate to the goat fucker. You know and I know that'll he'll lie, obfuscate and squirm his way out of the debate. In the end, his refusal to debate will bring the lie to his disgusting propaganda.
Remember, the goat fucker is utterly and irredeemably beneath contempt. He's a liar and a coward. The best thing you can do is beat him over the head with his oft demonstrated cowardice and dishonesty.
As great as it would be to see Brian debate Willie, I think that's doubtful at best. If I recall correctly, SLC offered to host a debate before, and Brian squirmed out of it by saying he would only do it on Carol's show. Which is bullshit, of course. He's just too chickenshit to debate you.
Still, Brian, I think this was a reasonable request by Willie. You can go to New York on 9/11 - and use that as an excuse if you want - and while you're there, ask him and David Lim whatever questions you have. Then your bullshit can be exposed and you can come back to whining on SLC. What do you think?
...And the tickets are very cheap also. Here from Expedia:
Expedia Bargain Fare San Francisco New York
SFO JFK Flights depart between
6:00am and 10:00pm
Roundtrip from
$285
Wow, it's amazing that Brian Good disappeared as soon as Rodriguez appeared. It's almost as if Brian is a complete coward who runs away when confronted...
Anyway, as I suspected, Rodriguez will be honored for his heroism on the 10th anniversary, while Brian will be trying on women's underwear and calling people "girls" on the internet.
so what are the thoughts on willies RICO lawsuit against the bush administration accusing them of complicity in the attacks on 9/11?
Willie, I suggest you not tarnish the date by allowing Brian to attend.
In my opinion, meeting with him before, or after, the event is far more appropriate.
I can see no reason why this man should be given such a privilege.
It was a mistake and also it was problematic. When I signed to the lawsuit I expected to get information. My lawyer, Phil berg , filled it up with every conspiracy theory in the world, while I was in Europe. This is the same man behind the Birthers and the lawsuit for Obama's birth Certificate. I fired him while the lawsuit was going and he tried to keep it going. It was knocked down by a Federal Court and I was "given" time for an appeal. Of course, I did not wanted anything to do with it afterwards, and therefore was finally put to rest. I was completely side winded by the allegations and my naiveté of the different amendments that could be made to it. Also the fact that Berg was asking for donations for the lawsuit which I never knew, how much was raised and he will not tell me either. All I wanted was information for the victims but my name was used for other purposes.
Thanks Paul.
Later guys. (So BG can post again!) I have Interviews to do. Busy, in spite of someone saying that I will never be on the news. LOL.
Hmm, I wonder where Brian is? He's usually so quick to post his dumbspam at this hour. I guess he's still hiding from Willie Rodriguez.
Give him half an hour, now that Willie R is gone, he will show up with all of his bravado BS.
Ian wrote, "...Hmm, I wonder where Brian is? He's usually so quick to post his dumbspam at this hour. I guess he's still hiding from Willie Rodriguez."
I just looked out the window from my home in East Los Gatos, CA toward Palo Alto, CA and I can see the smoke rising from the goat fucker's head. That means he's cookin' up some specious argument in reply.
%^)
I could not see it from here but I did get the stench of shit from his pants. I guess he is trying to raise the 290 bucks for the trip. But Carol will not lend it to him.
He is probably asking Janice for the money.
Can someone one fill me in on some details:
Did W-Rod stop endorsing the conspiracy theories OR did he never really endorse them, but his name was used for the truther efforts? I know people's minds can change, but I never heard Willie recant some of the things he said about 9/11 and inside job.
Brian, do not answer this question.
I would be delighred if Mr. Lim would clarify his position.
There's no need for me to debate Willie. His claims of 15 rescues and hundreds saved I have proven to be utterly fraudulent. His claim of $122 million raised also appears to be fraudulent. And he stole his story from a dead 9/11 hero as only a true scumbag would do.
zendingo, Willie's 9/11 lawsuit was an illiterate joke that started with the fraudulent claim that Willie "single-handedly rescued fifteen (15) pwrsons" and degenerated into further idiocy after that. Willie's lawyer Philip Berg went on to file a similarly illiterate Birther lawsuit against Obama.
roo: W-Rod is a W-Fraud.
As predicted. Never fails.
Brian Good the bitch says:
There's no need for me to debate Willie.
So you will not go to NY correct?
Why should I go to NY? I've got work to do right here.
NY can take care of third-rate con artists like Willie.
So when and where did Willie raise that $122 million? Nobody seems to know. Did Willie find it in a used condom in the stairwell?
Did Willie find it in a used condom in the stairwell?
Nope maybe from a used condom pulled from your gay ass. Then again, you don't use protection, it is why you have herpes.
Why should I go to NY? I've got work to do right here.
Yes we know, hiding from W-Rod behind Janice's soiled panties.
"you will never be on the news"
BUAWAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH
You know, I have no idea of Willie's history.
$122 million?
He rescued 15 people?
Wouldn't have a clue.
But, I do know this: Brian bitched constantly that he wanted to debate willie about this, but when willie agreed, he made a flurry of pathetic excuses, then ran away.
Indeed Paul_W- he has run again and again and again. Willie has made a fool of him so many times that I feel now for the first time, sorry for Brian....
NOT!!!!!
Why should I go to NY? I've got work to do right here.
come on Brian, ask Janice again to lend you the money or ask Carol's husband to give you an advance. Maybe the people from SF truth will pass the hat for you? ( just tell them is not for your stalking tendencies) or perhaps Richard Gage could pay you half of the trip and put it as an expense related operating cost?
You cannot miss the opportunity you always wanted (for the third time) again! Maybe your daddy can sell the piano? try talking to him again, do not be estranged.
and by the way...
Have you called C-Span yet? Bitch!
"I would be delighred if Mr. Lim would clarify his position. "
Translation: If Mr. Lim speaks up I'm screwed ... again...
"There's no need for me to debate Willie."
Because you will lose.
"His claims of 15 rescues and hundreds saved I have proven to be utterly fraudulent."
We've seenyour standards of proof, Brian, they are lacking.
" His claim of $122 million raised also appears to be fraudulent."
"Appears" to be fraudulent? Either it is or it isn't you racist fuck.
"And he stole his story from a dead 9/11 hero as only a true scumbag would do."
I see nothing in Willie's story that syncs up to Ortiz. More importantly the NY Times, and the rest of the Yew York media don't either - and they checked everyone.
" Willie's 9/11 lawsuit was an illiterate joke that started with the fraudulent claim that Willie "single-handedly rescued fifteen (15) pwrsons""
pwrsons? He got 15 PEOPLE out. That's what they call in NYC a bonified fact.
"and degenerated into further idiocy after that. Willie's lawyer Philip Berg went on to file a similarly illiterate Birther lawsuit against Obama."
Yes, and we know this because Mr. Rodriguez has already addressed this issue in one of his posts. Yet again you can't even bring yourself to stand up to Willie right here. You butt-fucking, baby-killer.
"roo: W-Rod is a W-Fraud."
And you are a w-war criminal.
There's no need for me to debate Willie. His claims of 15 rescues and hundreds saved I have proven to be utterly fraudulent.
Oh right, of course, you already won. I forgot.
I happen to be a long-time chess player, and I imagine you'd be very poor at it. You know why? Because you think every move you make is checkmate. Then when someone points out that it isn't and puts you in check, rather than save your king, you ignore it and insist you won via checkmate. That is what your debating style is like. It's not any sort of brilliancy that overwhelms the expectations and imaginations of your opponent, it's not any level of tactic or strategy to outplay your opponent, it is simply the insistence that you one the second you entered the match.
Only this time, you won't even agree to sit down at the chess board.
The goat fucker squeals, "...I would be delighred [SIC] if Mr. Lim would clarify his position."
Good job, spelling bee champ.
Officer Lim doesn't need to clarify anything--you scurrilous liar. My post at time stamp 15 August, 2011 11:42 makes Officer Lim's position quite clear. My post also proves that you're a liar.
Learn to read, jackass.
Pathetic.
"Why should I go to NY? I've got work to do right here."
Work? Work? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Work?
Waiting for your SSI disability check each month isn't work. Neither is panhandling in front of Town & Country or the Pruneyard.
...work....
"NY can take care of third-rate con artists like Willie."
... and they'd tear a First-Rate con artist like you to pieces.
William_Rodriguez said...
" can put it all together since as you all may know, survivors are not invited to participate this year, let alone people not affected directly by the event."
I did not know that. This pisses me off. I'm posting this because I'm sure others will have the same response.
And I'm still waiting for an answer to my question.
Answer the question, goat fucker:
"...That Officer Lim failed to mention Willie to the 9/11 Commission means nothing. After all, he also failed to mention the names of the NY & NJ Port Authority personnel who accompanied them as they rescued the occupants. Does that also mean the NY & NJ Port Authority employees lied about saving occupants who were trapped?"
Thus, we have more proof that you REFUSE to debate in good faith.
You're a scum sucking maggot--and that's an insult to scum sucking maggots.
FAIL
OMG SHILLIGAN'S ISLAND!
Yeah, saw that a couple hours ago. Kind of a letdown after getting so excited from the title. Not that I have some personal vendetta against Cosmos or anything, I just thought it would be interesting.
Willie has never backed up his claim that he raised $122 million. He said check on the web. I did. It's not there. The assumption that the claim was a lie is justified.
Willie provides no evidence wqhatsoever for his claimed that he rescued 15 persons, that he saved hundreds of lives, and that he was the Las Man Out. He's a liar.
Willie's got bonified facts all right. All his "facts" are bonified. MGF you have no idea how silly you are.
Officer Lim's position is clear as mud. Why would he leave "the true hero of 9/11" out of his testimony? My guess is that he found out Willie was a liar.
NGF, I lived in NYC for three years and they didn't tear me to pieces. You'd better get an education before you go though, 'cause you're a rube they'll see coming from a mile away.
OMG SHILLIGAN'S ISLAND!
Oh dear. Is this what happens when 9/11 Truth Activists try to be funny?
Next time Willie comes here, all he can do is put Brian's name out there for everyone to hear and let Willie tell Brian's lies, myths, and allegations about himself to the public. Then and only then will that goat fuck come out of hiding to defend his name.
The goat fucker continues to STONEWALL and squeals, "...Officer Lim's position is clear as mud. Why would he leave "the true hero of 9/11" out of his testimony? My guess is that he found out Willie was a liar."
Answer the GOD DAMNED question, goat fucker:
"...That Officer Lim failed to mention Willie to the 9/11 Commission means nothing. After all, he also failed to mention the names of the NY & NJ Port Authority personnel who accompanied them as they rescued the occupants. Does that also mean the NY & NJ Port Authority employees lied about saving occupants who were trapped?"
roo said...
Can someone one fill me in on some details:
Did W-Rod stop endorsing the conspiracy theories OR did he never really endorse them, but his name was used for the truther efforts? I know people's minds can change, but I never heard Willie recant some of the things he said about 9/11 and inside job.
i'm wondering this as well....
UtterFail, you've provided no evidence that Port Authority people ever claimed that tbey saved people who were trapped. Pablo Ortiz and Frank DeMartini saved people who were trapped, but they didn't live to go around bragging about it. So Willie had to do their bragging for them. Unfortunately he forgot to mention their names when he did it, because he is a swindling scumbucket.
zendlingo, Willie sued George W. Bush, essentially accusing him of planting explosives in the basements and blowing up the twin towers. If that's not an inside jobby job, I don't know what is.
This comment has been removed by the author.
And who better than Jabba Muumuu Willie to make the jobbiest jobby claims about the jobbiest jobby job!
The goat fucker lies, "...you've provided no evidence that Port Authority people ever claimed that tbey saved people who were trapped."
False.
My post at time stamp 15 August, 2011 11:42 proves that they claim to have rescued employees (occupants).
Now, answer the GOD DAMNED question, goat fucker:
"...That Officer Lim failed to mention Willie to the 9/11 Commission means nothing. After all, he also failed to mention the names of the NY & NJ Port Authority personnel who accompanied them as they rescued the occupants. Does that also mean the NY & NJ Port Authority employees lied about saving occupants who were trapped?"
STONEWALL ONE MORE TIME, GOAT FUCKER, AND YOU LOSE THE DEBATE BY DEFAULT.
FAIL
Officer Lim then states, "...Upon my arrival on the 44th floor, I started evacuating those on the floor towards my stairway. I heard an explosion & as I looked to my left, a fireball blew out the windows, knocking us to the ground. I knew now that we were under attack & proceeded down the stairway with my people. On the way down, WE [not "I"] cleared floors of any remaining employees."
Statement of David Lim to the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States March 31, 2003.
Now, answer the GOD DAMNED question, goat fucker:
"...That Officer Lim failed to mention Willie to the 9/11 Commission means nothing. After all, he also failed to mention the names of the NY & NJ Port Authority personnel who accompanied them as they rescued the occupants. Does that also mean the NY & NJ Port Authority employees lied about saving occupants who were trapped?"
STONEWALL ONE MORE TIME, GOAT FUCKER, AND YOU LOSE THE DEBATE BY DEFAULT.
FAIL
"NGF, I lived in NYC for three years and they didn't tear me to pieces. You'd better get an education before you go though, 'cause you're a rube they'll see coming from a mile away.
"
1. There's obviously a reason you're not still in NYC.
2. I'm not the idiot who's bought into Nanothermite in the WTC as part of a greater conspiracy.
3. I'm not the one who helped undermine the anti-war movement by spreading the stupid, and sexually harassing people.
4. I am not the one lying about a hero of 9/11 based on jealousy over his standing with Carol B., and a deep seeded racism.
OT
The Zionist Conspiracy
'Are the rumors true that Jews are planning to take over the world's governments and banks?'
Skeptiod is promoted as a podcast casting a critical eye over various myths and beliefs, but most of us here know it’s part of the de-programming of the masses.
The latest is about the world wide Jewish conspiracy. Yeah, the same name on the bottom of our weekly NWO paycheck. ‘Aint that a laugh!
http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4271
Web page:
http://skeptoid.com/
This comment has been removed by the author.
UtterFail, Mr. Lim said they "cleared the floors". Your specification was "saving occupants who were trapped."
Please provide evidence that the surviving PAPD people saved people who were trapped.
You're really not very bright, are you.
MGF--a deep-seeded racism? You're a regular Yogi Berra, dude! Stay in Castroville. The sharpies'd eat you alive in Santa Cruz.
I never "specified" anything.
END OF DEBATE.
YOU LOSE BY DEFAULT. STONEWALLING IS NOT "DEBATE," IT'S INTELLECTUAL DISHONESTY.
Once again, you FAIL, goat fucker.
"MGF--a deep-seeded racism? You're a regular Yogi Berra, dude! Stay in Castroville. The sharpies'd eat you alive in Santa Cruz.
"
Wazamatter? Carol still telling you to stay away?
Willie Rodriguez posting here with class, and making you look like the giant ass you are ruin your day?
You've tried to pass off explosions in the basement too so why can't Willie? I mean what with him actually being in the WTC at the time and all. The jet fuel rocketed down the elevator shafts,but I can see how Willie would interpret that differently so I give him a pass. You, on the other hand, have no excuse. You were kicked out of a half-way deacent college, and you should know better.
You don't have a single original idea in your head. Everything you post here comes from someone else. You put so much effort into bullshit that isn't even your bullshit.
I trust and respect Willie Rodriguez not just because of what he did that Tuesday morning in 2001, but because he doesn't hide from shitbirds like you. He has posted here twice, and each time you run like a cockroach in the light.
You are nothing, a nobody, worse you're someone elses shitstain.
Get help while you can.
You're really not very bright, are you.
You really have no right to patronize anybody on here until you start showing some semblance of intelligence.
A few nights ago, I was watching a debate between two youtubers I subscribe to - ProportionalResponse and GrapplingIgnorance - and a guy who went by the name "Charle Check'm" on BlogTV. Charlie was the rare atheist homophobe, so PR and GI were debating with him about homosexuality. Every time they brought up an excellent point or crushing argument his response would be one of two things:
*"You are committing the X fallacy"(usually he said straw man, but he also used red herring a lot)
*"Are you ready get destroyed? I'm about to destroy you now. Alright, here I go."
When going with the latter option, he would consistently get beaten down by the inferiority of his arguments, but time and time again throughout the debate he insisted that he was going to "destroy" them. Not only that, but at one point, he insisted that he had been destroying them throughout the whole debate. Even though anyone with a neuron could watch that debate and see that he was full of shit, he truly, genuinely believed he was consistently making the superior arguments.
This is your mentality in a nutshell. You patronize the intelligence of others while simultaneously boosting up your own, oblivious to the fact that you have never said anything intelligent and everybody on here thinks you're a retard. You are ignorant of your own stupidity to the point that you envision yourself as some kind of messiah who has descended upon the feeble-minded to enlighten them of that which they do not know but must. In reality, you are delusional and braindead. You are not the guy "destroying" the arguments of those whom you disagree with, you are the dipshit who is publicly displaying his idiocy for all to see and laugh at, just like good ol' Charlie Check'm.
So, Brian, that being said, you can either kindly fuck off or continue with the same publicly degrading bullshit that you've been tainting the internet with for the last several years. I hope you make the right choice, for your sake and for our sanity.
NGF, I lived in NYC for three years and they didn't tear me to pieces. You'd better get an education before you go though, 'cause you're a rube they'll see coming from a mile away.
Brian, you understand New York about as well as you understand what Dr. Sunder said.
And let's not forget that on 9/11, Willie Rodriguez will be honored for his heroism, and you will be pounding at a keyboard in the public library, calling people girls, spittle hanging out of your mouth, eyes bugging out of your head as you squeal and squeal and squeal over the fact that your life is a meaningless failure while the man you so desperately love and can't be with get the respect he deserves as an American hero.
How does it feel, Brian, to be a total failure in every way?
MGF--a deep-seeded racism? You're a regular Yogi Berra, dude! Stay in Castroville. The sharpies'd eat you alive in Santa Cruz.
Santa Cruz is definitely more your kind of town Brian: a place where the burnt-out losers of the 1960s can sit in the park drunk on MD 20/20 and not freeze to death in the winter. I just hope you don't spend too much time exposing your junk to the women walking to class at UC Santa Cruz.
UtterFail, your question was predicated on the belief that Port Authority survivors had been "saving occupants who were trapped". But you have not provided, and you can not provide, any evidence that they did so. You live in a fantasy world.
MGF, Willie hides from me. He threatened to cancel his appearance in Oakland rather than answer my questions. He has never answered my questions.
I never tried to pass off explosions in the basement. The basement bombs theory has been taken seriously by very few. What Willie did on 9/11 is not the issue except to the degree that he lied about it. His lies are obvious.
Arcterus, you still haven't supplied your own definition of a "thinking person", nor have you pointed out any errors in mine.
The arguments I get here from the likes of JR and UtterFail and MGF and Ian are self-destroying, as anyone who investigates the issues can see.
Ian, Willie Rodriguez is a swindling ghoul who robbed his glory from the dead.
The arguments I get here from the likes of JR and UtterFail and MGF and Ian are self-destroying, as anyone who investigates the issues can see.
If this is true, then how come there hasn't been a new investigation? How comes the widows haven't had their questions answered? How come Willie Rodriguez is recognized as a hero while you're laughed at as an irrelevant lunatic?
Everyone who has investigated the issues has realized that we're right and that you're a deranged glue-sniffing liar who was expelled from the truth movement for stalking Carol Brouillet.
Ian, Willie Rodriguez is a swindling ghoul who robbed his glory from the dead.
Squeal squeal squeal!
Willie Rodriguez will be honored for his heroism on 9/11 and there's nothing you can do about it, Brian. HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!
The arguments I get here from the likes of JR and UtterFail and MGF and Ian are self-destroying, as anyone who investigates the issues can see.
See above.
Arcterus, you still haven't supplied your own definition of a "thinking person"
Nor do I need to. You just didn't understand my last point and asked me to supply my own definition...even though that really had nothing to do with my response to your definition.
nor have you pointed out any errors in mine.
I would, but everybody else keeps beating me to the punch. No need to kick a dead horse. Although I suppose arguing with you in general is the quintessential equivalent of that in any case.
Arcterus, who exactly pointed out what exact errors in my definition of a thinking person?
Hey Brian, did Janice agreed to lent you th money? did you ask Carol's husband?
nor have you pointed out any errors in mine.
How about: "You will never be in the news"
buAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHa
Oh my God....you are the stupidest motherfucker on the planet. You are clearly either illiterate or you have some severe cognitive problems. I can't believe you would ask that after my response.
Arcterus,
He's a psychopath.
Factor 1
Aggressive narcissism
[1] Glibness/superficial charm
[2] Grandiose sense of self-worth
[3] Pathological lying
[4] Cunning/manipulative
[5] Lack of remorse or guilt
[6] Emotionally shallow
[7] Callous/lack of empathy
[8] Failure to accept responsibility for own actions
Factor 2
Socially deviant lifestyle
[1] Need for stimulation/proneness to boredom
[2] Parasitic lifestyle
[3] Poor behavioral control
[4] Promiscuous sexual behavior
[5] Lack of realistic, long-term goals
[6] Impulsiveness
[7] Irresponsibility
[8] Juvenile delinquency
[9] Early behavioral problems
[10] Revocation of conditional release
[11] Many short-term marital relationships
[12] Criminal versatility
Great minds talk about ideas.
Average minds talk abnout events.
Small minds talk about people.
Shut up, goat fucker.
"Great minds talk about ideas.
Average minds talk abnout events.
Small minds talk about people."
What kind of a mind sexually harasses a married woman, then stalks her.
What kind of a mind lies about a 9/11 hero because that person is hispanic?
What kind of a mind declares that someone is hiding from him even that that person has just invited him to come to New York in the exact same topic thread?
What kind of a mind doesn't get into the "Truth Movement" until 2006, long after their claims had been shot to pieces?
MGF, I can't answer your question 'cause I don't know anybody like that.
You haven't got anything to say about eveants or idias, I guess?
Small minds talk about people.
That would explain why you spend every waking hour babbling about Rodriguez, Kevin Barrett, and Craig Ranke.
Either that, or you're homosexually infatuated with them.
MGF, I can't answer your question 'cause I don't know anybody like that.
False. You were expelled from the truth movement for your perverted advances towards Carol Brouillet.
You haven't got anything to say about eveants or idias, I guess?
Learn to spell, Brian.
Anyway, there was this event, 9/11, that we do discuss here. And we discuss ideas about it. The problem is that the truth movement hasn't had a new idea in years, and there's no point in discussing magic thermite elves, modified attack baboons, death ray beams from space, or holographic planes for the 100th time.
Ian, where do you get the idea that I made perverted advances against anybody? You live in a fantasy world. Ms. Brouillet made complaints about what she believed to be my attitude--not about anything I did. She was wrong about my attitude. I thought her status as a successfully married mom of three was important to her credibility as an activist and a candidate, and I was very concerned about protecting that status.
There's no need for new ideas when the classic rules of evidence, logic, physics, and epistemology serve us so well. Those are the ideas I'm talking about, not silly theories.
snug.bug -AKA Brian Good from Palo Alto California and well known stalker said:
Ian, where do you get the idea that I made perverted advances against anybody?
From Carol herself.
You live in a fantasy world.
we know better, Brian Good.
Ms. Brouillet made complaints about what she believed to be my attitude--not about anything I did.
We have posted her reactions to you so many times already. You keep posting the same dumbspam for new readers, all they have to do is google, "Brian Good Sex Stalker" , "Brian Good's greatest hits" or screwloosechange to host a debate between Willie Rodriguez and Brian Good" to see all about his stalking of Carol Brouillet.
She was wrong about my attitude.
Your view about it of course. We believe Carol over you anytime.
I thought her status as a successfully married mom of three was important to her credibility as an activist and a candidate, and I was very concerned about protecting that status. Read between the lines- I wanted to have that in my life that is why I stalked her.
There's no need for new ideas when the classic rules of evidence, logic, physics, and epistemology serve us so well. Those are the ideas I'm talking about, not silly theories.
say what?
Why don't you Jean Luc, Carol's husband write a support note for you? how come Carol, will not do it either?, How come Carol will never ever have you on her show? How come you still harassing her sending unwanted emails?
How come she complained about you at the SF group and that got you removed?
Lying here about what happened will get you nowhere. Bitch!
Sabba, Ms. Brouillet made complaints about what she believed to be my attitude--not about anything I did. She was wrong about my attitude. I thought her status as a successfully married mom of three was important to her credibility as an activist and a candidate, and I was very concerned about protecting that status.
She gets a lot of creepy phone calls, and it's possible that at some time she believed that some of them came from me. If so, she's wrong.
I have no need of a support note. I did nothing wrong, and the only people who say I did are the creepy defenders of a swindler who can't be defended in any other way than by lying about his critics.
Janice Good's lying family abortion, Brian Good Says:Sabba, Ms. Brouillet made complaints about what she believed to be my attitude--not about anything I did.
Wrong, you called her, you stalked her , you sent harrasing e-mails to her.
She was wrong about my attitude.
Not so, she was totally right about you and that is why the members of the SF truth group acted to protect her from you.
and I was very concerned about protecting that status.
you were very concerned of being ignored and told to stay away from Carol. You were concerned that your calls to her and her husband were exposing the stalker that you were/are.
She gets a lot of creepy phone calls, and it's possible that at some time she believed that some of them came from me. If so, she's wrong.
Sure, they cannot identify them coming from you and your stupid tone is not easily identifiable. Right.
I have no need of a support note. I did nothing wrong...
You will never get one, that is the point asshole. They will never support you and that is a fact.
band the only people who say I did are the creepy defenders of a swindler who can't be defended in any other way than by lying about his critics.
which reminds me , last time you accuse me of being WR and I challenged you to post your evidence, you showed none, then I challenged you to a face to face debate in San Francisco, the same way as Willie did, and your answer was, you did not need to face, debate, or meet a creep like me. Remember that? Bitch!
Brian Good- the lying Yenta, said:
I have no need of a support note. I did nothing wrong, and the only people who say I did are the creepy defenders of a swindler who can't be defended in any other way than by lying about his critics.
We are not lying about you Brian Good and as you said before, we are only your critics, the same way you do on others. The difference is that you are a nobody who lusts on the fame of others and who never admits his own mistakes.
Sabba, you are a liar.
And your lies can't change the fact that Willie is an international swindler who stole his glory from Pablo Ortiz.
Of course he only got away with it because nobody could imagine that anyone could be such a turd that they would do such a thing.
so, is willie still endorsing a conspiracy theory that speculates participation by the U.S. government?
Didn't you hear? Willie's a globe-trotting disaster consultant now. Busy professionals like him don't have time for conspiracy theories.
Ian, where do you get the idea that I made perverted advances against anybody?
From Carol Brouillet.
You live in a fantasy world.
Squeal squeal squeal!
Ms. Brouillet made complaints about what she believed to be my attitude--not about anything I did. She was wrong about my attitude. I thought her status as a successfully married mom of three was important to her credibility as an activist and a candidate, and I was very concerned about protecting that status.
False, false, false, and false. No, Brian, she complained about the fact that you're a perverted lunatic who tried to wreck her marriage by stalking her and lying to her husband about you and Willie Rodriguez and Kevin Barrett.
There's no need for new ideas when the classic rules of evidence, logic, physics, and epistemology serve us so well.
Right. This is why 9/11 truth is dead. the rules of evidence, logic, physics, and epistemology have made it clear that all "truther" theories are nonsense.
Ian, you're a liar.
Ian, you're a liar.
False.
So Brian, did the widows have their questions answered yet?
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!
Not just a liar, a churlish, loutish liar.
Goat fucker, you're a liar. Not only are you a liar, you're a sex predator, psychopath and an idiot who wears women's underwear.
As usual it's so out of touch with reality it actually believes it knows what it's talking about.
Projecting your foibles again, goat fucker?
Of course you are.
Don't you have a goat to molest (ala, Aliester Crowley at Thelema)?
As usual it's so out of touch with reality it actually believes it knows what it's talking about.
My, such squealing!
Brian, you didn't answer my question: did the widows have their questions answered yet?
UtterFail, m/2s is a velocity. I'm sorry that's upsetting to your world view and your self-esteem, but maybe if you close your eyes and stamp your feet three times you'll feel better.
Can't we just sue Brian and get this over with?
He's been harassing, stalking, making false accusations, criminal mischeif and whole host of other things that he's done over the internet that is truely illegal.
Post a Comment
<< Home