Monday, May 22, 2006

Dylan's Goal

Dylan Avery and his buddies often state that their main goal is to get a bunch of the 9-11 "Truth" movement people to show up at Ground Zero on 9-11-06, to cause a ruckus while the media's attention is focused there.

Gee, disrupting a memorial event for your own purposes? Where have we heard of that before?



Dylan Avery, the Fred Phelps of his generation.

103 Comments:

At 22 May, 2006 15:20, Blogger BG said...

This post is just over the top. I guess the feeling is mutual....

Let's say any of you agreed with the goal (getting a real investigation), but you agree with Pat, that making a big demonstration Ground Zero is unseemly. What actions would you take in light of the fact that no one in Washington seems to be able to Champion the cause? Spitzer in New York has refused to response to a request for investigation.

I guess most of you behind this blog suggest mental heath therapy. Is that indeed where we stand? Case closed.

 
At 22 May, 2006 15:44, Blogger Chad said...

I have to say, the comparison between Phelps and Dylan is a bit drastic in my opinion.

While I have no tolerance for the hijacking of a memorial service to promote one's own agenda, Phelps and his clan are in a class all by themselves.

Dylan may be out to undermine the government and the country, but he does so with rhetoric that's easily refuted. They come off as fools.

Phelps is just pure evil.

 
At 22 May, 2006 15:45, Blogger Chad said...

Allah Ackbar! Did BG and I just somewhat agree on something?!?!

Keep your eyes peeled for Joos everyone. They're around here somewhere....

 
At 22 May, 2006 15:58, Blogger Pat said...

Obvious question: Do you think that Fred Phelps and his group know they are doing evil? Or do they think they possess truth that the rest of us just aren't able to handle?

This is solely about the Loosers plans to disrupt the 9-11 Memorial this year (as they did last year--see the "Loose Change Goes to Ground Zero video on the sidebar). They drop that plan and I'll drop this post.

 
At 22 May, 2006 16:23, Blogger BG said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 22 May, 2006 16:49, Blogger nesNYC said...

It has to start from some place. People are still dying because of the 9/11 lie; who else is standing up for them? The heck with political correctness! If shit has to get stirred to get the point across, let the games begin.

 
At 22 May, 2006 17:16, Blogger BG said...

Pat said...

Obvious question: Do you think that Fred Phelps and his group know they are doing evil? Or do they think they possess truth that the rest of us just aren't able to handle?

This is solely about the Loosers plans to disrupt the 9-11 Memorial this year (as they did last year--see the "Loose Change Goes to Ground Zero video on the sidebar). They drop that plan and I'll drop this post.
------------------------------
Pat,

Based on you podcast interview, this blog, and this comment, I find you a fairly decent dude. Not that you care, but thought I should say so.

The reality, as you may know, is that most of us who plan to be at ground zero don't have any affiliation to Dylan. So even if Dylan saw this your way, there's lots more of us that you've got an issue with.

It does seem sad to see that, this far in advance, that you and others find our "truth" and the way we try to gain awareness and support as offensive. Let's see, what does that remind you of.....

Vietname War Protests?
Iraq War Protests?

There are those that say protests and protesters didn't have a thing to do with ending the Vietnam War.
And certainly the "bonus marchers" during the depression didn't help themselves.

It is a quandary.

There are some, like Michael Ruppert, who evidently saw the writing on the wall (after writing Crossing the Rubicon, which was all the rage for a while). He still has his website, but proclaimed that "9/11 Truth" is dead, in so many words, even before the 9/11 Commission Report was release, if I'm not mistaken.

I get the message loud and clear from you and others who see these 9/11 issues the way you do:

You wonder why people can't just accept that we are in a War against Islamic Fundumentalism which sponsors Terrorist atttacks and will continue to do so unless we physically stop them.

I reply. We all reply. We don't accept it because it is a lie. 9/11 was rigged.

 
At 22 May, 2006 17:23, Blogger shawn said...

Dylan and his ilk are disgusting enough as is, desecrating the memory of those slaughtered needlessly by ideological zealots.

Phelps is disgusting, but his protests affect one person at a time, Dylan and his cronies are hurting the entire nation.

 
At 22 May, 2006 17:25, Blogger shawn said...

I reply. We all reply. We don't accept it because it is a lie. 9/11 was rigged.

No...no it wasn't. We've proved it time and time again to you, Joan, and nesnyc.

You wonder why people can't just accept that we are in a War against Islamic Fundumentalism which sponsors Terrorist atttacks and will continue to do so unless we physically stop them.

This didn't start on 9/11. It started a September decades before when an Olympic team was murdered by monsters. We just finally opened our eyes in 2001.

I don't wonder why you can't accept it. There's plenty of people on the Left who realize 9/11 was perpetrated by Islamists (michael moore among them), just that the threat of them is overblown. It's wondering how people can be so willfully blind to mountains of evidence. It's how I felt when OJ Simpsons was found not guilty.

 
At 22 May, 2006 17:43, Blogger Pat said...

Bill despite the fact that you've put some links up to some very questionable sites, I think you're a good guy too. If I believed as you do that the Bush Administration, or elements in it, were behind 9-11 I'd probably do everything in my power to broadcast that to the world.

But you also gotta take the flak that goes along with that. Console yourself with the idea that if you're every proven right I'll have to eat a lot of crow.

I don't buy the conspiracy theory. I suspect that some in this "Truth" movement are really in search of truth, but I suspect most of them "knew" the truth the moment 9-11 happened, and have reverse engineered the conspiracy that fits their truth. I just picked up one of the Griffin books (Omissions & Distortions), and no kidding, in the introduction he brings up the six hijackers who are still alive.

 
At 22 May, 2006 17:50, Blogger Chad said...

There's an obvious difference here between Phelps and Dylan though. Phelps will show up at a funeral of a fallen soldier with signs saying God Loves Dead Soldiers or something to that effect.

In their own sick twisted way, I honestly think that those in the CT movement FEEL as though they're doing right by the people who died on 9/11. They aren't there saying they deserved to die (a la Ward Churchill). Maybe some of them feel that way, but as far as I know, they're not proclaiming it.

An argument can be made that they're desecrating those who died on that day by peddling this crap at a memorial service, but regardless of that fact, I do not feel that that is their main goal.

I can't say the same for Phelps. He truly believes that the soldiers' funerals are an apt place to desecrate and demean their memory and service.

 
At 22 May, 2006 17:50, Blogger Alex said...

"I reply. We all reply. We don't accept it because it is a lie. 9/11 was rigged."

Great. You've replied. Now shut the fuck up already. We're not asking you to express your opinion every five seconds now are we. We understand by this point. You think the government is evil. You think Jews are evil. You think there's a giant conspiracy involving Hitler, the Illuminati, Zionists, and the Bush family, to fake the moon landing, bomb pearl harbour, kill JFK, and bring down the WTC. Great, ok, we've heard you. Now will you go away? No, we're not asking you to come "reply" yet again at the memorial. Nor are we asking Phelps to come give his reply at the funerals of US soldiers. There's a time and a place for everything, and that isn't it.

Unless ofcourse, you'd like us to come protest at your funerals. Got any coming up? I'll be more than glad to show up with a megaphone and then rant and rave about one conspiracy or another for the next couple hours. Let me know, I'll try to keep my schedule open.

 
At 22 May, 2006 17:55, Blogger BG said...

Based on this version of history there was nothing about what happened at Munich that had anything to do with religion, Islamism, or fundamentalism. I'll grant extremism, but of course that works both ways.

I look forward to you correcting my errors. Specifically, aren't most Arabs who rage against Israel and the West in fact raging against the actions of Israel and Zionist forces that are relentless in destroying any prospect for peace. Do you really think it has much to do with thinking Judaism is an inferior religion.

Based on news reports just today of Saudi reports about their textbooks in the news, it seems that even Saudi rulers are duped or are voluntarily playing this dirty game of how much can we demonize the Muslims.

My speculation is that Saudi rulers fear their population and it works to their favor to have internal "terrorists" that they must control.

I am open to be told why I nuts. I would ask that you do it in such a way that I can understand your points.

I have to admit that my reading of history, starting for 1917, is that Israel stole the land it occupies. Given that, it's not surprising that neighboring Countries have an on-going grudge.

 
At 22 May, 2006 17:55, Blogger Alex said...

Chad, Phelps shows up at funerals saying the soldiers deserved to die because he beleives that if he change future events, he can save the "immortal souls" of others.

CT'ers "feel they're doing right" in a similar way. They want to "show everyone the truth" in order to prevent future deaths and bring justice for those who died.

In other words, both sides think they're doing the right thing, and benefiting others. Their beleifs are irrelevant. It's their actions that are important.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions, eh?

 
At 22 May, 2006 17:57, Blogger shawn said...

In their own sick twisted way, I honestly think that those in the CT movement FEEL as though they're doing right by the people who died on 9/11.

My point was this is religious to both sides. Phelps and his cronies sincerely believe that America is being punished by God, and that soldiers/gays/etc are burning in Hell.

BG, joan, nesnyc, Dylan, etc sincerely believe (key friggin' word there), BELIEVE that 9/11 was carried out by members of the government. It's entirely on faith, just as God punishing our country is entirely on faith.

 
At 22 May, 2006 17:58, Blogger BG said...

Alex,

Your insult strengthens my resolve.

 
At 22 May, 2006 18:02, Blogger shawn said...

Specifically, aren't most Arabs who rage against Israel and the West in fact raging against the actions of Israel and Zionist forces that are relentless in destroying any prospect for peace.

When Israel was created as a nation, it was a miniscule strip of land almost entirely lived in by Jews. That didn't stop the Arab juggernaut from simultaneously invading it. They wanted the JEWS dead. They wanted them pushed into the sea (read their statements and propoganda of the time). It wasn't about Jewish 'oppression'.

Prospect for peace? ARE YOU KIDDING? ARE YOU THAT STUPID? The Arabs are the ones who continually invade or attempt to destroy Israel. The Arabs are the ones who specifically target civilians sitting in discos and pizza parlors. You know what happened the day after the Israelis finished their first stage of disengagment of Palestine? A suicide bombing. Ruins your whole stupid worldview right there.

I have to admit that my reading of history, starting for 1917, is that Israel stole the land it occupies.

Your reading is wrong then. The Jews bought the land that became Palestine. The Arabs had completely abandoned the area until the Jews moved in and brought industrialization. It was all crap land.

 
At 22 May, 2006 18:02, Blogger shawn said...

Bg, guess you missed the Mufti of Jerusalem being an ally of the Nazis?

 
At 22 May, 2006 18:03, Blogger BG said...

Pat said:...."plans to disrupt the 9-11 Memorial this year"

For what it's worth I wasn't aware that there were plans, activities, space that we would be "disrupting"

Last year there was nothing official disrupted. If we need a permit, we should make every reasonable effort to do that and cooperate. However, if it's like a Bush sanitized event, that shouldn't be allowed to happen.

 
At 22 May, 2006 18:05, Blogger Chad said...

Alex, Shawn... I can see both your points, and trust me, I don't like defending DylanCo any longer than need be.

In my personal opinion however, Phelps' tactic is more malicious.

Don't mistake that as condoning what the Changers are doing though. As a matter of fact, I've spoken to Pat about this topic over the past couple days and there should be a post coming about here in the next week or so.

 
At 22 May, 2006 18:07, Blogger BG said...

You know what happened the day after the Israelis finished their first stage of disengagment of Palestine? A suicide bombing. Ruins your whole stupid worldview right there.

I appreciate your detail, and discussion without attacking me.

I am very much aware of the bombing you are speaking of. According to reports, he made a video before he went on the mission. It is exceedingly disturbing.

 
At 22 May, 2006 18:09, Blogger shawn said...

In my personal opinion however, Phelps' tactic is more malicious.

I agree with that, I just see him as obstuse. The CIs are acute.

 
At 22 May, 2006 18:09, Blogger shawn said...

obtuse*

 
At 22 May, 2006 18:13, Blogger BG said...

The following is what wikipedia says:
In 1947, following increasing levels of violence together with unsuccessful efforts to reconcile the Jewish and Arab populations, the British government decided to withdraw from the Palestine Mandate. The UN General Assembly approved the 1947 UN Partition Plan dividing the territory into two states, with the Jewish area having roughly 55% of the land, and the Arab area roughly 45%. Jerusalem was planned to be an international region administered by the UN to avoid conflict over its status.

Immediately following the adoption of the Partition Plan by the UN General Assembly on November 29, 1947, David Ben-Gurion tentatively accepted the partition, while the Arab League rejected it. Several Arab attacks on Jewish civilians soon turned into widespread fighting between Arabs and Jews, this civil war being the first "phase" of the 1948 War of Independence.

On May 14, 1948, before the expiry of the British Mandate of Palestine at midnight on May 15, 1948, the State of Israel was proclaimed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel

 
At 22 May, 2006 18:17, Blogger shawn said...

And they ignore that Transjordan was part of Palestine. They're only considering what is today considered Palestine (Israel, West Bank, Gaza Strip, and the Golan Heights).

 
At 22 May, 2006 18:17, Blogger nesNYC said...

The road to hell is paved with good intentions, eh?

Absolutely! That's exactly like spreading "Democracy" through wars.

 
At 22 May, 2006 18:18, Blogger shawn said...

Jordan was the "Arab" Palestine (as opposed to Israel being the "Jewish" Palestine), that fact is lost on most people.

 
At 22 May, 2006 18:19, Blogger shawn said...

Absolutely! That's exactly like spreading "Democracy" through wars.

Use bold to quote, otherwise it shows up as a slash.

Yeah, war has never brought democracy to any country.

Hell, you're living in one right now.

 
At 22 May, 2006 18:20, Blogger nesNYC said...

You know what happened the day after the Israelis finished their first stage of disengagment of Palestine? A suicide bombing. Ruins your whole stupid worldview right there.

Just more self inflicted bullshit so as not to deal with reality. The Zionist state is one of conquest and expansionism; why would they let puny Arabs stand in their way? If they must kill their own to get the point across, that's exactly what they do. It's called a false flag attack.

 
At 22 May, 2006 18:21, Blogger nesNYC said...

Looks fine on my browser, I'm using IE and FireFox.

 
At 22 May, 2006 18:22, Blogger shawn said...

Just more self inflicted bullshit so as not to deal with reality. The Zionist state is one of conquest and expansionism; why would they let puny Arabs stand in their way? If they must kill their own to get the point across, that's exactly what they do. It's called a false flag attack.

how many times do I have to say "wrong" till it sinks in? A hundred?

Puny Arabs? Heard of the Ottoman Empire?

The Arabs (at the time of the War of Independence) were had better arms, more munitions, were allowed to wield said arms openly, and outnumbered the Jews by a vast amount.

You, sir, cannot deal with reality.

 
At 22 May, 2006 18:23, Blogger shawn said...

So the Jews brainwashed a random Arab youth to make a video and then blow himself up in a crowd of Jews.

Use logic for once.

 
At 22 May, 2006 18:32, Blogger BG said...

Shawn,

I'm agreeing with you. Unlike 9/11, I don't want to go there.

 
At 22 May, 2006 18:40, Blogger nesNYC said...

So the Jews brainwashed a random Arab youth to make a video and then blow himself up in a crowd of Jews.

Use logic for once.


Those are actors and the bombs are planted by Mossad. That's pretty logical no?

 
At 22 May, 2006 18:41, Blogger shawn said...

Those are actors and the bombs are planted by Mossad. That's pretty logical no?

No. You're saying that with zero evidence.

 
At 22 May, 2006 18:43, Blogger nesNYC said...

Puny Arabs? Heard of the Ottoman Empire?

We're talking about the Palestinians here, not the Ottoman Empire. Have you seen pictures of what the Zionist have done to the Palestinians? The word oppressed comes to mind.

 
At 22 May, 2006 18:45, Blogger shawn said...

We're talking about the Palestinians here, not the Ottoman Empire. Have you seen pictures of what the Zionist have done to the Palestinians? The word oppressed comes to mind.

hahah so when the Jews are victims of the largest massacre in world history they did it, but when the Palestinians reject the two-state solution, and continually elect a kleptocracy it's the Jews fault?

 
At 22 May, 2006 18:54, Blogger nesNYC said...

No. You're saying that with zero evidence.

Quick, check this out...

The case of the retarded 14 yr. old suicide bomber?

BTW, why would they leave evidence? :D

 
At 22 May, 2006 18:56, Blogger nesNYC said...

when the Jews are victims of the largest massacre in world history

False. We have established that that honor goes to Stalin.

 
At 22 May, 2006 18:56, Blogger BG said...

Here's a recent Pravda article related to our discussion

 
At 22 May, 2006 18:58, Blogger shawn said...

Quick, check this out...


Reliable source for once, please.

And you do know those checkpoints always have tons of journalists around them, right?

That's why we have those phony shots of Palestinians supposedly being hurt.

 
At 22 May, 2006 18:59, Blogger shawn said...

hahahah now you're linking to Pravda?! This is getting funnier by the moment.

 
At 22 May, 2006 18:59, Blogger BG said...

The 14 year old incident is huge.

 
At 22 May, 2006 19:00, Blogger shawn said...

False. We have established that that honor goes to Stalin.

A massacre is active slaughter. If we're counting starvation, Mao takes the cake with thirty million.

 
At 22 May, 2006 19:00, Blogger BG said...

Pradva has been fairly reliable over the last 4 years, in my experience.

 
At 22 May, 2006 19:02, Blogger shawn said...

Pradva has been fairly reliable over the last 4 years, in my experience.

Yes with "Axis is Evil in Washington" as a headline, they're real reliable.

 
At 22 May, 2006 19:04, Blogger BG said...

Do you have ready reference to a link that shows how the bombing in Jordan was faked, nesnyc?

Clearly bombs in the ceiling, but total lies in the media.

A female suicide bomber who didn't detonate, is still dressed in her "bombing outfit" for th press the next day!!!!!

 
At 22 May, 2006 19:07, Blogger shawn said...

Do you have ready reference to a link that shows how the bombing in Jordan was faked, nesnyc?

I hope it's better than references showing how there were controlled demolitions on 9/11.

 
At 22 May, 2006 19:09, Blogger nesNYC said...

Reliable source for once, please.

It's only reliable if it tells you the truth. Unfortunately, the mass media is in the hands of the Zionists and will never disclose their crimes.

 
At 22 May, 2006 19:12, Blogger nesNYC said...

Do you have ready reference to a link that shows how the bombing in Jordan was faked, nesnyc?

If they are still up, go to MSNBC and see the pictures and first reports. The state that bombs were planted in the ceiling and show pictures of the ceiling blown downward instead of upward if it was a bomb at ground level.

After about 24 hours, that story was "Orwell-ized" and the truth buried.

 
At 22 May, 2006 19:13, Blogger BG said...


Jordan Hotels Blitz
Was An Inside Job


This evidence is much much weaker that the video of wtc 7, but still worthy.

 
At 22 May, 2006 19:16, Blogger shawn said...

This evidence is much much weaker that the video of wtc 7, but still worthy.

How you can get weaker than "none" is beyond me.

It's only reliable if it tells you the truth.

I went to the main site, it's about as reliable as the Weekly World News.

Unfortunately, the mass media is in the hands of the Zionists and will never disclose their crimes.

The Jew controlled media! Circular logic for the win!

 
At 22 May, 2006 19:16, Blogger undense said...

A female suicide bomber who didn't detonate, is still dressed in her "bombing outfit" for th press the next day!!!!!

You mean a female bomber that planned on blowing herself to smithereens didn't bring a change of clothes with her for the next day.

Wow! How absolutely thoughtless and unstylish.

 
At 22 May, 2006 19:22, Blogger nesNYC said...

The Jew controlled media! Circular logic for the win!

Not Jews, Zionists.

 
At 22 May, 2006 19:24, Blogger shawn said...

nesnyc, for the last time, a VAST MAJORITY of Jews are Zionists. A miniscule, abolsutely miniscule, amount of Jews are not Zionists. Hell, plenty of non-Jews are Zionists.

And yeah, the pro-Palestine media is really controlled by Zionists.

 
At 22 May, 2006 19:25, Blogger BG said...

undense,

You are going to argue if I say the sky is blue, aren't you?

Take a little time. Look at this. Think it thru before you pop off. What kind of police force either:

1) let's sidicide bomber stay wrapped up overnight with explosives around her,

or

2) takes it all off her, and dresses her back up again the next day for the press?

I understand you think I'm looney tunes, but these fakes are happenning and you and many others don't have a clue.

 
At 22 May, 2006 19:25, Blogger shawn said...

"Zionist" has also historically been the code-word antisemites (like yourself) use for just plain ol' Jews.

 
At 22 May, 2006 19:26, Blogger shawn said...

I understand you think I'm looney tunes, but these fakes are happenning and you and many others don't have a clue.

They don't need to fake attacks. You guys don't seem to understand how illogical your statements are. There are countless Arabs who want Israel wiped off the map. Dozens of them have strapped bombs to their bodies and blown up civilians.

 
At 22 May, 2006 19:28, Blogger nesNYC said...

The purpose of the Jordan bombing was to establish security forces in Jordan and not raise too much objection to them being used to protect the coming Haifa/Mosul pipeline that will steal Iraq oil and let the Zionist tax the world for it.

 
At 22 May, 2006 19:29, Blogger shawn said...

The purpose of the Jordan bombing was to establish security forces in Jordan and not raise too much objection to them being used to protect the coming Haifa/Mosul pipeline that will steal Iraq oil and let the Zionist tax the world for it.

Have you ever read what you've said and realized how absolutely insane it is?

 
At 22 May, 2006 19:30, Blogger BG said...

Ok, you are right, I'm sorry (not).

According to this article her bomb belt has been "disabled"
http://www.militantislammonitor.org/article/id/1258

 
At 22 May, 2006 19:31, Blogger shawn said...

According to this article her bomb belt has been "disabled"
http://www.militantislammonitor.org/article/id/1258


Odd, that's exactly what assumed happened.

Wanna know why? Because it MAKES SENSE.

 
At 22 May, 2006 19:33, Blogger undense said...

Take a little time. Look at this. Think it thru before you pop off. What kind of police force either:

1) let's sidicide bomber stay wrapped up overnight with explosives around her,

or

2) takes it all off her, and dresses her back up again the next day for the press?


What kind of police force does that?

The kind of police force who knows that if that don't reproduce it the nutty buddies will claim: "I didn't see any bombs strapped to her.Where's the proof? Someone had to take pictures. They are hiding the pictures. It's a coverup."

See how that BS works?

But give those guys solid evidence, as was provided in this case, and they deny it anyway just like they would if there was a clear picture of Flight 77 ramming into the Pentagon or if we had closeup video of the beams and columns failing in the WTC. You'll simply dig into your specious reasoning archive and pull something out. You always do.

 
At 22 May, 2006 19:41, Blogger nesNYC said...

They don't need to fake attacks. You guys don't seem to understand how illogical your statements are. There are countless Arabs who want Israel wiped off the map. Dozens of them have strapped bombs to their bodies and blown up civilians.

While it's true the Zionist have oppressed and militarily attacked the Arabs, the fact is the Arabs have never invaded "Israel" proper so the Zionist have always had to resort to "preemptive" attacks and false flags to get things going. It's the oldest trick in their book.

 
At 22 May, 2006 19:42, Blogger shawn said...

While it's true the Zionist have oppressed and militarily attacked the Arabs, the fact is the Arabs have never invaded "Israel" proper so the Zionist have always had to resort to "preemptive" attacks and false flags to get things going. It's the oldest trick in their book.


Wrong. Absolutely wrong.

 
At 22 May, 2006 19:45, Blogger nesNYC said...

Wrong. Absolutely wrong.

Absolutely, according to the mainstream.

 
At 22 May, 2006 19:47, Blogger shawn said...

Absolutely, according to the mainstream.

You don't seem to get that "mainstream" doesn't mean "wrong". In fact, most of the time it means "correct".

It's terrible you don't understand an iota about history.

 
At 22 May, 2006 19:51, Blogger nesNYC said...

Have you ever read what you've said and realized how absolutely insane it is?

Why is it crazy? Most Jordanians, up until the "attack" sympathized with their oppressed brethren. Once they found they can also be attacked by the mythical "Al Qaeda" then they can accept heightened security that this pipeline would bring.

Basically, this pipeline will be the only way the world is going to get oil out of the Middle East after Iran and Saudi Arabia are shut down by the "war on terror."

 
At 22 May, 2006 19:53, Blogger shawn said...

Maybe if I just say wrong over and over again, you'll get it, as reason and facts don't work against the bag of bricks you call your brain.

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

 
At 22 May, 2006 19:55, Blogger nesNYC said...

You don't seem to get that "mainstream" doesn't mean "wrong". In fact, most of the time it means "correct".

Yes! Correct for those who paid for those stories to come out.

 
At 22 May, 2006 20:00, Blogger shawn said...

Yes! Correct for those who paid for those stories to come out.

You have a hard-on for circular logic.

 
At 22 May, 2006 20:03, Blogger BG said...

Pretty good online free vid

Manufacturing Consent

About Media and Govt. Manipulaton of the Public.

 
At 22 May, 2006 20:04, Blogger Chad said...

Nesnyc? You're actually making BG out to be the sane one in your little party.

:::shakes hand:::

Congrats on that one dude.

 
At 22 May, 2006 20:04, Blogger nesNYC said...

Maybe if I just say wrong over and over again, you'll get it, as reason and facts don't work against the bag of bricks you call your brain.

This isn't any of my idea, it's all in the Clean Break/PNAC policy papers.

 
At 22 May, 2006 20:06, Blogger shawn said...

Now you're linking to Noam Chomsky! This is a riot.

 
At 22 May, 2006 20:07, Blogger shawn said...

This isn't any of my idea, it's all in the Clean Break/PNAC policy papers.

Those postdate the creation of Israel by quite a bit, bud. Also, post hoc logical fallacy.

You guys are in love with the red herring and post hoc, too. You use them practically every post.

 
At 22 May, 2006 20:18, Blogger nesNYC said...

Those postdate the creation of Israel by quite a bit, bud. Also, post hoc logical fallacy.

You guys are in love with the red herring and post hoc, too. You use them practically every post.


There were bumps along the way and the PNAC/Clean Break policies are the cap stone on the pyramid, but the plan was always to create a "Greater Israel" according to biblical "land grants." The Zionists feel that true Israel lies between the Euphrates and the Nile, pretty much where the conflict and resulting genocides are occurring.

 
At 22 May, 2006 20:21, Blogger shawn said...

There were bumps along the way and the PNAC/Clean Break policies are the cap stone on the pyramid, but the plan was always to create a "Greater Israel" according to biblical "land grants." The Zionists feel that true Israel lies between the Euphrates and the Nile, pretty much where the conflict and resulting genocides are occurring.

You can't imagine how hard I'm laughing. My sides hurt.

Genocide! HAHAHAH You're too much.

 
At 22 May, 2006 20:30, Blogger nesNYC said...

You can't imagine how hard I'm laughing. My sides hurt.

Genocide! HAHAHAH You're too much.


Since Gulf War I, there have been nearly 1 million dead Iraqis, mostly women and children. I'm pretty sure that qualifies as genocide.

That and the fact that Iraq is getting ready for a civil war (Zionist instigated) will clear the path for their "Greater Israel."

 
At 22 May, 2006 20:35, Blogger nesNYC said...

HAHAHAH You're too much.

But don't laugh. Think of how 9/11 factors in to all this. The plan for a "Greater Israel" is really at the basis of 9/11. Because American GI's had to be suckered into fighting Israel's wars of conquest for her.

 
At 22 May, 2006 20:39, Blogger shawn said...

Since Gulf War I, there have been nearly 1 million dead Iraqis, mostly women and children. I'm pretty sure that qualifies as genocide.

And that's because Saddam invaded Kuwait and wouldn't disarm.

You seem to completely invert every single thing in the history of humanity.

 
At 22 May, 2006 20:40, Blogger shawn said...

Because American GI's had to be suckered into fighting Israel's wars of conquest for her.

From now on I'm just going to say "wrong" whenever you're in error.

Wrong.

 
At 22 May, 2006 20:54, Blogger nesNYC said...

From now on I'm just going to say "wrong" whenever you're in error.

No, right. Did in fact the US go to the Middle East to fight wars? Who benefits? Not Americans that's for sure.

 
At 22 May, 2006 20:59, Blogger shawn said...

No, right. Did in fact the US go to the Middle East to fight wars? Who benefits? Not Americans that's for sure.

I know you're an idiot and think Osama and al-Qaeda don't exist, but in the real world, eliminating them from Afghanistan was a good thing (and that war helped Israel exactly zero).

 
At 22 May, 2006 21:05, Blogger Alan Kellogg said...

Who here would be willing to help put bg in a sheltered workshop, where we could keep him too busy to get into trouble? Some people really shouldn't be left to their own devices.

 
At 22 May, 2006 21:27, Blogger nesNYC said...

I know you're an idiot and think Osama and al-Qaeda don't exist, but in the real world, eliminating them from Afghanistan was a good thing (and that war helped Israel exactly zero).

A lot of good that did. The US actually helped the Taliban escape and paid them in gold for their services so did the US really benefit from that failed intervention? I think not.

 
At 22 May, 2006 21:31, Blogger shawn said...

A lot of good that did. The US actually helped the Taliban escape and paid them in gold for their services so did the US really benefit from that failed intervention? I think not.

Taliban =/= al-Qaeda

We just killed a couple dozen of them. Shucks, I thought they all got away.

 
At 22 May, 2006 21:46, Blogger nesNYC said...

Taliban =/= al-Qaeda

We just killed a couple dozen of them. Shucks, I thought they all got away.


You obviously don't understand what really happened in Afghanistan. All the US did was get rid of the war lords that were not cooperating with opium production. Since "Al Qaeda" isn't real, they were never really the focus of that intervention.

But the second strategic goal was to establish bases on the East of Iran. With Iraq now 'secure' Iran and bases established on the west side, Iran is now within reach of future bombing raids. Pretty nifty huh?

 
At 22 May, 2006 21:50, Blogger shawn said...

You obviously don't understand what really happened in Afghanistan. All the US did was get rid of the war lords that were not cooperating with opium production. Since "Al Qaeda" isn't real, they

Well al-Qaeda is real, so your whole line of thinking breaks down. The Taliban produced more opium than the Northern Alliance, so that also refutes your point.

Iran is now within reach of future bombing raids. Pretty nifty huh?

Especially since they're one of the top supporters of terror and are trying to get their hands on the Bomb. But you probably love them, because they want to use it on Israel.

 
At 22 May, 2006 22:41, Blogger nesNYC said...

Especially since they're one of the top supporters of terror and are trying to get their hands on the Bomb. But you probably love them, because they want to use it on Israel.

Again, you're wrong. They want to get rid or a more "pliable" regime in Iran so as to halt oil production and not open their OIL BOURSE.

If Iran was such a threat, why was there very little news about them up until 9/11? If they are terrorists, why did they condemn the attacks? You can lump the "they're getting a nuke" with the same Zio-nazi propaganda that lied the US into Iraq. Damn, you guys are so EASY to FOOL!

 
At 22 May, 2006 22:45, Blogger nesNYC said...

Especially since they're one of the top supporters of terror

But you can bet your ass if Bush & Co. don't have their way, we might just loose an American city to a nuke attack.

 
At 22 May, 2006 22:46, Blogger nesNYC said...

Well al-Qaeda is real, so your whole line of thinking breaks down.

Al Qaeda is NOT real. It's only propaganda to get people like you to hate Muslims.

 
At 23 May, 2006 05:39, Blogger JoanBasil said...

Look at that Zogby poll over on www.911blogger.com

Less than half of the public buys the official version.

My personal opinion of Dylan Avery is that he is a hero and, fortunately, he is very young so that in his lifetime he will know great acclaim and honor and he will enjoy it.

And I don't agree with his theory about 9/11!
But he's a hero for making a film that is so accessible to a wide audience and especially young people and his film is giving so many people the opportunity to go back and think about 9/11 because, truly, they were not comfortable at the time with the "19 hijackers" story and in the years since, all they've gotten is lies from the government and the media, lies for the purpose of having perpetual war in the Middle East.

 
At 23 May, 2006 05:47, Blogger JoanBasil said...

re whether "Al Qaeda" exists --- remember that video of "Al Qaeda training camps" that we saw over and over and over after 9/11? That video is one of the little hard stones that bother people about 9/11. Why are we seeing this? What does a bunch of people in masks jumping over tires have to do with hijacking 4 jumbo jets?

 
At 23 May, 2006 06:32, Blogger MarkyX said...

If Al Qaeda doesn't exist, why does the middle east media keep confirming their exists, promote their videos, or show videos of their training camps saying it's them?

Or Does the US government also have every media in the ME in strangle too?

 
At 23 May, 2006 06:35, Blogger MarkyX said...

Joan, let me ask you something about public polls.

If there was a presidental election and the only way to vote was using an online poll like the Zogby poll or CNN poll, would you trust it?

Online polls are not scientific, they even state that under. Using an online poll as evidence is a desperate attempt for people waking up. As for young people, they are some kids out there who think Mona Lisa was an african painting stolen by the white men. "Stupid" is a good word to describe them. If hicks can vote, so can educated idiots.

 
At 23 May, 2006 06:37, Blogger MarkyX said...


All the US did was get rid of the war lords that were not cooperating with opium production.


US = Many fucking countries under the UN, including Canada.

So...what the fuck is killing off my Canadian soldiers?

 
At 23 May, 2006 06:38, Blogger MarkyX said...


mostly women and children. I'm pretty sure that qualifies as genocide.


Most of them being killed off by foreign cells in the country, not Americans.

 
At 23 May, 2006 07:09, Blogger shawn said...

Al Qaeda is NOT real. It's only propaganda to get people like you to hate Muslims.

I don't hate Muslims, I hate Islamists. Big difference, moron. Hell, there's more evidence that al-Qaeda exists than you do. Ergo, you do not exist.

You've been owned for the millionth time by me. How does it feel?

Why are we seeing this? What does a bunch of people in masks jumping over tires have to do with hijacking 4 jumbo jets?

Easily the dumbest thing you've said. You're pretty much saying al-Qaeda's only tactic is flying planes into buildings.

 
At 23 May, 2006 13:46, Blogger JoanBasil said...

Shawn,
I don't think Al Qaeda flew any planes into buildings and I don't know who it was at the "Al Qaeda training camps." We've had so much faked stuff: Palestinians celebrating 9/11; forged documents about uranium; fake stuff about Mohammed Atta meeting Iraqi agents in Prague. Our government and media are chock full of liars.

markyx,
was that an on-line poll? I didn't see it on-line or I'd have liked to vote. I think it was a poll where they called people and asked a series of questions.

 
At 23 May, 2006 15:21, Blogger Alex said...

Heh, you talked about "faked stuff" yet two of the three things you list were NOT faked. The problem is that you're so goddamn paranoid that you wont beleive anything that isn't printed on a conspiracy website.

Oh, and about this:

"Less than half of the public buys the official version. "

So what? Even assuming it's a scientific poll, how many of that "more than half" agree on what actually happened? There's three of you maniacs on this site, and none of you can agree on what actually happened. So if 60% of those polled don't agree on the government version of events, how many of that 60% can actually agree on a common theory? 1%? 2% maybe? Either way their opinions are irrelevant. If I say that 80% of people don't drive a Ford, that doesn't mean that Ford is a shitty company, or that 80% of people drive a Toyota instead. Your attempts at logical discussion are so flawed that I truly pitty you. You're entering a battle of wits, practicaly unarmed.

 
At 23 May, 2006 18:56, Blogger shawn said...

Palestinians celebrating 9/11

You're forgetting there's two videos. One real, one staged.

 
At 23 May, 2006 23:35, Blogger nesNYC said...

You're forgetting there's two videos. One real, one staged.

The 'real' video is shown out of context and that women and those children were not celebrating 9/11.

But we know FOR SURE that 5 Israelis were arrested shortly after making a spectacle of themselves by dancing and mocking the collapses of the towers.

 

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