Tuesday, May 23, 2006

Zogby Poll Distorted

Check out this press release by 9-11Truth.org:

The poll is the first scientific survey of Americans' belief in a 9/11 cover up or the need to investigate possible US government complicity, and was commissioned to inform deliberations at the June 2-4 "9/11: Revealing the Truth, Reclaiming Our Future" conference in Chicago. Poll results indicate 42% believe there has indeed been a cover up (with 10% unsure) and 45% think "Congress or an International Tribunal should re-investigate the attacks, including whether any US government officials consciously allowed or helped facilitate their success" (with 8% unsure). The poll of American residents was conducted from Friday, May 12 through Tuesday, May 16, 2006. Overall results have a margin of sampling error of +/- 2.9. All inquiries about questions, responses and demographics should be directed to Zogby International.


But get the slanted way the poll is presented. When 42% believe there has been a coverup, that's big. But when 48% believe there wasn't get how that's described:

"...(only 48% said no)"

Same with the new investigation--"only" 48% said no.

But I poked a little deeper into the poll (Word Document), and found some gems among the dirt:

Both men and women and residents in each of the four regions are more likely to say the U.S. government and 9/11 Commission are not covering up anything. Majorities who agree include Republicans (64%), 50-64 year-olds, married adults, suburbanites (59%), Protestants, those with at least some college education, and people with annual household income of $50,000 or more (57%).

Majorities (50%-56%) of Democrats, 18-29 year-olds, Hispanics, single adults and those who are divorced/widowed/separated, residents of small cities, and adults with less education than a high school diploma believe the government and 9/11 Commission are covering up something. Nearly half of independent voters (48%) agree.


So the more education you have, the less likely you are to believe in the conspiracy theory? Well hush my mouth!

On the new investigation?

Republicans (70%) and people with annual household income of $75,000 or more (64%) are the most likely to say the attacks were thoroughly investigated. Other majorities who agree include up to 58% of whites, 50-64 year-olds, residents of the East and West, college graduates and those with some college education, and people with annual household income of $50,000-$74,999.

Majorities in several sub-groups feel the attacks should be reinvestigated. The most likely are Hispanics (67%) and African Americans (64%). Other majorities include up to 57% of Democrats and independents, 18-49 year-olds, residents of the Central/Great Lakes, high school graduates and those with less education. Between 56%-61% of people with household income less than $25,000 agree.


Now it's tempting to sigh and say, okay, let's have another investigation. But you know what the problem is with that? It's that no investigation will be accepted by the Truthers that doesn't conclude that the WTC was brought down by controlled demolition by Bushitler and his cronies.

32 Comments:

At 23 May, 2006 13:50, Blogger MarkyX said...

Proof that CTs are angry white males with 80-something IQ.

 
At 23 May, 2006 14:04, Blogger JoanBasil said...

Come on, Pat. This is big. The mainstream media has not allowed any discussion of the official version but less than 50% of the American people buy the official version.

The percentage that says there was a cover-up is going to grow. They know that the government and media have been pushing lies on them.

If anything, Republicans are skewing the poll out of partisanship.

 
At 23 May, 2006 14:08, Blogger Pat said...

Joan, how many people think Elvis is alive? Shall we investigate that next?

 
At 23 May, 2006 14:41, Blogger MarkyX said...

Joan, you seem to forgot that even if the majority did say "It was a coverup", it doesn't prove the coverup is real.

In order to make an extraordinary claim, you need extraordinary proof, and CTs haven't really provided much concrete evidence to make the statement.

 
At 23 May, 2006 14:41, Blogger undense said...

I bet a good percentage believe there are aliens at Rosswell too. I guess the lack of a complete and open investigation means there's a cover-up there too by every administration since, what, Truman?

Damn Illuminati, Crown, NWO, Zionists, Freemasons, Flat Earthers, and Elvis Fanclub. Always interfering!

 
At 23 May, 2006 15:14, Blogger JoanBasil said...

Clearly, the ball is rolling. Loose Change and Charlie Sheen. I can picture you folks as burnin' mad about that as Bush was having to sit there and let Stephen Colbert call him out to his face.

 
At 23 May, 2006 15:23, Blogger undense said...

It seems to bother the Bush detractors far more, as the poll pretty clearly demonstrates.

But, hey. You got Charlie Sheen and the dude from Blink 182 on your side. With all that power and influence backing you, who knows where this whole Loose Change thing will go.

 
At 23 May, 2006 15:26, Blogger Chad said...

Is Charlie Sheen still on cocaine?

 
At 23 May, 2006 15:52, Blogger undense said...

Is Charlie Sheen still on cocaine?

And Heidi Fleiss.

 
At 23 May, 2006 16:45, Blogger James B. said...

The problem with Americans is 30% believe the Holocaust was faked and professional wrestling is real.

 
At 23 May, 2006 16:46, Blogger nesNYC said...

Republicans (70%) and people with annual household income of $75,000 or more (64%) are the most likely to say the attacks were thoroughly investigated. Other majorities who agree include up to 58% of whites, 50-64 year-olds, residents of the East and West, college graduates and those with some college education, and people with annual household income of $50,000-$74,999.

This WILL change when the economy heads south. We're quickly approaching that right now.

 
At 23 May, 2006 16:49, Blogger nesNYC said...

Come on, Pat. This is big.

They know that's why they did some 'digging' to see if they could find some inconsistencies. Basically, these guys are riding on fear and seem to want to do anything so as not to destroy their illusion of a good government.

 
At 23 May, 2006 17:35, Blogger shawn said...

Joan, as I've said before, some polls have results as high as 80 percent believing a conspiracy killed Kennedy. The evidence just isn't there for that conclusion.

More than half of Americans think we've been visited by UFOs.

 
At 23 May, 2006 18:21, Blogger undense said...

This WILL change when the economy heads south. We're quickly approaching that right now.

Woah. Deja vu.

I heard this claim in '01, '02, '03, '04, '05, and plenty of times already in '06; along with the dire consequences of the great housing bubble bursting since late '03.

 
At 23 May, 2006 18:23, Blogger shawn said...

I heard this claim in '01, '02, '03, '04, '05, and plenty of times already in '06; along with the dire consequences of the great housing bubble bursting since late '03.

Hey, if you read that new book FUBAR, you'd know that we're in worse shape than Vietnam or even the Great Depression!

Then you realize an Air America host wrote the book and you just shake your head.

 
At 23 May, 2006 18:43, Blogger undense said...

Considering how Air America has been doing I can understand his pessimism.

 
At 23 May, 2006 18:45, Blogger shawn said...

Considering how Air America has been doing I can understand his pessimism.

zing!

I work receiving at a Barnes and Noble and laughed at how they made Air America sound like such a big network (in 60 markets!). And then there were quotes from partisan hacks like Kos and Franken.

 
At 23 May, 2006 18:55, Blogger undense said...

zing!

I work receiving at a Barnes and Noble and laughed at how they made Air America sound like such a big network (in 60 markets!). And then there were quotes from partisan hacks like Kos and Franken.


What it boils down to is a paraphrase of that old quote attributed to Lincoln:

- You can please some of the CTs all of the time

- Or you can please all of the CTs some of the time

- But you can't please all of the CTs all of the time.

That's the real difference between the left and the right (and CTs and OSers) in this country. The majority of the right (and OSers) relatively agree with each other. The left and the CTs are so fractured into individual, highly-opinionated groups that not only do they despise the right, but they despise each other as well. They have no coherency, no unified voice.

That's their weakness and their downfall.

 
At 23 May, 2006 19:03, Blogger shawn said...

I have my own problems with the Right (I'm a small government guy, and don't like neoconservativism, but the Left can't even correctly identify the real threat to them.

 
At 23 May, 2006 20:14, Blogger James B. said...

The wording of the questions were tailored to get the response they wanted.

24. Some people believe that the US government and its 9/11 Commission concealed or refused to investigate critical evidence that contradicts their official explanation of the September 11th attacks, saying there has been a cover-up. Others say that the 9/11 Commission was a bi-partisan group of honest and well-respected people and that there is no reason they would want to cover-up anything. Who are you more likely to agree with?

For example, if someone believed that the 9/11 commission failed to correctly investigate the Jamie Gorelick "wall" or other failings of the intelligence system before 9/11, they would answer yes.

This is completely different from believing that there is a coverup of the US government's role in carrying out the attack, which is what the conspiracy theorists are implying.

 
At 23 May, 2006 22:18, Blogger Pat said...

James not to mention that it could be that they believe in the shooting down of Flight 93, which as we have discussed here is moderately kooky but not completely psycho.

 
At 23 May, 2006 23:12, Blogger nesNYC said...

LOL, check out what Alex Jones posted on his site:

New Zogby Poll Frightens Masters Of Terror Into Releasing 'Bin Laden Tape'

 
At 24 May, 2006 05:38, Blogger MarkyX said...

And we care about Alex Jones because...? He uses a CNN poll as 'evidence', despite right under the CNN poll it says that it is not a scientific poll.

 
At 24 May, 2006 15:37, Blogger Rousseau said...

As a student of politics I do not find surprising at all the high levels of education correlates to acceptence of the government's position. Their is a long and well developed academic (and quite mainstream) literature that the heaviest dose of nationalisttic indoctrination is directed at the most prominent (i.e. educated) members of our society. Who will argue that to gain real access and influence in the American system access to cash and economic resources is a nesscessary (but not sufficient) condition. Thus, convincing those who posses in reality only the ability to participate as 1/1,000,0000th of vote count once every several years or write a letter to their representative that the government operates for and in their interestes is rather inconcequential for maintaining a solid political strucutre in any society. More important however are the educated classes whose compliance is essential. Think about it, most revloutionaries hail from an upper class background (i.e. Castro, Lenin, Ho Chi Mihn, Jefferson, Madison, Washington, Marx, Engels).

Further, as a student of politics I am cosistently amazed at how well this indoctrination operates. True or not, the sheer revulsion to the claims (if completley unfounded and rediculous as claimed on this site, an extensive and well thought out site dedicated to debunking it is also ridiculous)provides sound evidence of well trainded minds fine tuned by the American education system. If I made a movie claiming that the world was flat, would a web site be needed to debunk it? I don't know if the guys are totally right but my studies in politics makes me far more atuned to the claim that individuals can and do act with a reckless abandoned to achieve what thay felt would validate them personally, for whatever reason. It as if you all beleive that our leaders are some kind of special people not prone to the destruction, lies, and folly that permeates that records of political leaders thoughout the ages.

 
At 25 May, 2006 08:53, Blogger Alex said...

As a student of politics, you can go fist yourself.

 
At 25 May, 2006 11:42, Blogger Rousseau said...

Alex, clearly you are a very thoughtful individual. Your striking clarity and intellectual girth clearly elevates the discourse to a high level. If I could only come up with things like "go fist yourself" I would not need to waste my time reading far and wide on history and political theory. Who taught you the methods of logic and persausive argumentation, I would love to study under them as you are clearly a master of language.

 
At 25 May, 2006 13:45, Blogger shawn said...

Alex, clearly you are a very thoughtful individual. Your striking clarity and intellectual girth clearly elevates the discourse to a high level. If I could only come up with things like "go fist yourself" I would not need to waste my time reading far and wide on history and political theory. Who taught you the methods of logic and persausive argumentation, I would love to study under them as you are clearly a master of language.

You do realize by trying to sound smart, you actually end up looking like a phony?

If I was writing a paper for peer review, or for a grade, sure I'd type like that, but this is like having a conversation.

 
At 25 May, 2006 17:54, Blogger Alex said...

Hey, whattayaknow! A spammer who thinks he's edumacated. Fancy that.

May I have the honour of analyzing your diatribe, professor?

Your usage of the word "clearly" in both of the first two sentences CLEARLY demonstrates your limited vocabulary. Relying heavily on such a common adjective is highly unprofessional.

The phrase "intellectual girth" seems entirely too forced. In the future you may wish to consider using phrases such as "intellectual prowess", or "stunning intellect".

Using the word "things" in your third sentence to describe a phrase ruins the effect of the entire sentence. A more effective way of phrasing the same thought would have been:

”go fist yourself” Oh! Such wonder! Such beauty! If only I also possessed the wit required to author such poetic phrases!

And how exactly DOES one "read far and wide"? I'd certainly appreciate it if you conducted your reading far, far away; however, I'm rather uncertain as to what it means to "read wide".

Finally, your last sentence should ideally start with the word "Whoever" instead of "Who", and would look much better if you had properly spelled the word "persuasive".

Ya goon.

 
At 25 May, 2006 18:39, Blogger Rousseau said...

Right on. Your critiques are well noted. Sure I am a goon, I'll concede that as well. Smart is the farthest thing from what I am, so it is little surprise that my writing does not come across that way, please forgive my inadaquecies if you will. So maybe know that I've accepted your critiues as valid, you can move on to addressing my arguments rather than my writing style. Buy the way I believe you are both well thought intelligent people, thus there is no need for an archaic pissing match between us.

 
At 26 May, 2006 08:06, Blogger Alex said...

You got it. My initial comment here was written after I got furstrated by seing the same message, posted by you, in about 7 different threads. I hate spammers. I'm not sure WHY you did that, but as long as I don't see it again, I'm more than happy to have a civil discussion with you. You seem like a reasonable guy.

 
At 26 May, 2006 08:26, Blogger Rousseau said...

Cool. It just seems to me that there a difference between someone who thinks they have uncovered the hidden truth behind 9/11 (not my deal at all), and those who have a general distrust of those in power. i.e. Plato's dilema: Those who activley seek power, by the very nature of their pursuits are the least fit to rule. Thus, I sure as hell have no idea what the full 9/11 story is, but I have a suspicion that there is a lot we do not know.
People's inability to square their reason with the official line is why they are drawn to films such as loose change (in spite of serious flaws). I think this drives the film more than a small subset of people who believe in far reaching shaowy conspiracy. Focusing on this group diverts attention from serious contemplation of some things that just don't add up when it comes to ecplaining the event s of 9/11.

 
At 26 May, 2006 09:39, Blogger Alex said...

Well I'm glad you reckognize the difference. It's deffinitely not wrong to have a healthy skepticism of the government. But to go from doubting their motives, to assuming that they would both desire to and be capable of pulling off the kind of conspiracy that 9/11 CTers allege is deffinitely not a "healthy skepticism". It's both illogical and insane.

Personaly, working for the military, I know the types of screwups that governments, intelligence agencies, and militaries are capable of. That's one of the reasons why I don't need to see the failiures on 9/11 as part of some grand conspiracy.

 

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