Tuesday, May 23, 2006

True Believers

This isn't a Loose Change specific post, but it is a big controversy in the blogosphere right now, many of our readers are commenting on it, and there are a lot of parallels with the "9/11 truth movement".

Someone named Jesse MacBeth is claiming to be a "Special Forces Ranger" who commited mass atrocities in Iraq, has made a video with an organization called "Peace Films" attesting to this, and is a member of Iraq Veterans Against the War. I won't go into the reasons why he is fake, if you are interested in that go to the posts by Pat here, and by me here and here.

So I went over to the Peace Films website, where they have a guest book, which until the recent outrage was mostly filled with adulations from the far left anti-war movement. Now it is largely really pissed off veterans and their supporters. There are still some holdouts however, some true believers, who are convinced by the truth behind this fraud. I was struck by the similarities between these people, and the conspiracy theorists we run across while making this blog.

First of all, Pacifica Radio:

I would like to interview Mr. Macbeth for my radio show. It airs on KPFT90.1FM (Pacifica) in Houston on Sunday Nights. I can be reached by phone at (281)***-****. I am eagerly awaiting your call, e-mail, or both.

Obidike Kamau
If you remember, Pacifica Radio is one of the sources Loose Change used regarding rumors of 9/11 warnings. At least the American Free Press isn't involved, yet.

The Illuminati ties, and other strange theories:

I just want to Thank You brother, your are right in what you are doing and Yes Amerika has become just paid to murder,but you are doing the right thing I too am speaking out on the way State Hospitals plan deaths rapes and know about it and do nothing. If you can get me intouch with this man I would be pleased I have some questions. Thank You for speaking out I Knew it all the time since 911.

Wayne (aka) king Opain Morin Jr
From: CA
Website: http://www.illuminati-news.com/lie-detector.htm


It takes courage to speak up, even if you are lying!

Well done. It takes a lot of courage to stand up and speak!! I can say I am a bit dismayed at the vehemence of denial of certain posts. Truth hurts, especially if you are being fed a lot of horse menure through the conventional media channels! We need more real stories from independent sources like these to be told!!!
Fourth, an almost religious fervor. It is everyone else who must be brainwashed!

Can´t believe (well, sadly, actually I can when it comes to 'blind'/brainwashed americans) some of the comments here yelling Jessie ain´t legit. Ehhr? You can´t be 100% sure about many things in life, but what would make anyone not believe him? It ain´t exactly new things he is coming forth with, at least not to us with our eyes open. But it is very good that he does come forward and telling it like it is - people can´t hear it enough. The more people hear it, the more likely it is they´ll wake up to it.
And finally, any lies put forward by the movement, are the fault of those who are opposed to the movement.

Something about this website reeks of a strawman to hurt the credibility of war protestors.


Update: One more connection, I was perusing the site of the "Scholars for 9/11 Truth" a fringe group of mostly philosophy and eastern religion professors making a pretense of serious scholarship, when I noticed the lead item in their news section:

Testimony from a former U.S. Army Ranger

"We Are the Terrorists, folks!"

I guess they aren't that interested in the truth.

They even add this rather ironic commentary:

9/11 Truth is one of the big factors in putting a stop to this. I hope everyone will do something to get this message out to 1 new person - perhaps we could save some lives. This video is about 20 minutes long

Actually Hotair was one of the big factors in putting a stop to this.

43 Comments:

At 23 May, 2006 09:14, Blogger MarkyX said...

In case you don't know, this person is a fake. He can't even get the right uniform.

 
At 23 May, 2006 09:18, Blogger LT said...

some people are so eager to believe that they will believe anything. This guy is the biggest fake, yet my anger at this scumbag, pretending to be a "Special Forces Ranger" is misdirected, according to BG. Also, considering the fact that some of us who are in the military, such a fake is easily recognized - we could be "experts" in this field. Which leads me to this: The CTs will be quick to discount our evidence that this guy is a phony, even though we are "experts-due to our profession, and as explained above". this is nothing new to them, as they do it with all expert testimony throughuot the official explanation and so forth with loose change.

 
At 23 May, 2006 09:29, Blogger BG said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 23 May, 2006 09:31, Blogger BG said...

It,

Considerating your view on this, I honestly appreciate your rather direct but not inflammary treatment. I respect you points.

I'll try to stay out of the discussion as I agree I have no standing that others do on certain details.

I respect the expert opinions, but somehow relying on dress simply proves to me that he's not in uniform. Question: Is is even allowed to be in uniform if he's not still in the service or at some sanctioned event?

I sincerely look forward to the whole truth being discovered. I think this person has committed military crimes if he is still affiliated, right?

I think if he a civilian, and he has lied, he is guilty of slander at the very least, and perhaps sedition or some crime of that sort at the worst.

9:29 AM

 
At 23 May, 2006 09:36, Blogger BG said...

Sorry to be a chatterbox, but I hope you agree the following is worth sharing and discussing...

from
Here

TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 115 > § 2388 Prev | Next

§ 2388. Activities affecting armed forces during war


How Current is This?

(a) Whoever, when the United States is at war, willfully makes or conveys false reports or false statements with intent to interfere with the operation or success of the military or naval forces of the United States or to promote the success of its enemies; or
Whoever, when the United States is at war, willfully causes or attempts to cause insubordination, disloyalty, mutiny, or refusal of duty, in the military or naval forces of the United States, or willfully obstructs the recruiting or enlistment service of the United States, to the injury of the service or the United States, or attempts to do so—
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.

 
At 23 May, 2006 10:00, Blogger BG said...

Found an article that I had to set up an sign on (free) to get:

Here: Local activists protest Coffee Plantation "

It refers to Jesse MacBeth in 2004

I posted a copy of this article with free access
here

Whoever this guy is, he's the pawn of somebody. Wouldn't you agree?

If he not prosecuted, my take is he's shilling for some operation that has govt. protection to smear the anti-war crowd.

I'm not saying I know that is true in any shape or form.

However, if he's lying, there is no reason under the sun he should not be prosecuted.

 
At 23 May, 2006 10:02, Blogger Jujigatami said...

What is really really sad is that months and years from now, this guy will still be quoted by the anti-war loonies as an authority. No matter how many times he's shown to be a fraud.

Oh, and I'm not saying that all people that are anti-war are loony. You can have intelligent reasons to be anti war, and I've argued many of them over and over with some of my very smart liberal anti-war friends. It's loonies that jump to believe that anything the US does is inherently bad, and will take any frauds words as gospel.

 
At 23 May, 2006 10:10, Blogger BG said...

Jujigatami,

I would die to defend this Country from those who are destroying it. It happens the we disagree on who the real enemy is.

 
At 23 May, 2006 11:18, Blogger LT said...

BG,
The issues about the uniform are significant. I know you don't understand why because you are not in the military. Let me explain. One of the first thing a soldier learns at basic training is the proper wear of the Army uniform. It is drilled day in and day. Many pushups are done for things such as a loose thread. Now explain to me, why a soldier, who is apparantly selected for elite training(i.e. ranger, and or special forces, yet can't even identify the unit correctly verbally (special forces ranger vs Special forces soldier or ranger) doesn't know how the Army wears their sleeves when rolled up, but instead rolls them like Marines, doesn't have the proper unit insignia(crest and such). Everything on a military uniform, patches and all, serve to identify the soldier, and UNIT TO WHICH HE BELONGS, yet this guy doesn't have any of it and gets it terribly wrong. On top of it all, this elite guy doesn't know how to wear a beret? Please, if you doubt all of us that know...well i just don't know what to tell you...

 
At 23 May, 2006 11:19, Blogger LT said...

and yes, he should be prosecuted and thrown in jail.

 
At 23 May, 2006 11:51, Blogger LT said...

Malkin has updated info. Apparantly the Army ran a check and they have no service records of anyone by that name. More on the site if anyone wishes to check.

 
At 23 May, 2006 12:25, Blogger LT said...

and for those of you who think that Malkin is biased source, then go to democratic underground and read. same thing there.

 
At 23 May, 2006 15:07, Blogger BG said...

LT,

I trust Malkin. I don't think things break down that clearly between trusted and distrust web site.

Also, I really like and agree with Malkin video commentary today. (a movie encouraging kids to be enviro-terrorists).

I take and It and markyx are saying that this dude has never serve in the US Armed services in Iraq. That the test, isn't it. Not dressing right doesn't prove anything does it, especially given what this guy is saying?

 
At 23 May, 2006 15:47, Blogger LT said...

BG have you not read anything that I've posted. Man i'm starting to think that i've given you far more credit than you deserve.

 
At 23 May, 2006 15:58, Blogger LT said...

BG,
please don't hold onto hope that this guy somehow was in the military. I read all the comments over at D Underground, and out of all those guys, only ONE IDIOT still believes he may be in the military. BG, you do know that the unit he claims he was deployed with wasn't even deployed during the time he says he was in Iraq don't you. You do know that he says he was deployed for 16 mnths, at a point in time when the war wasn't even 16 mnths old. And if you can't take the word of a full time military officer such as myself, that this guy was not only not in Iraq, but not in the military, as i said earlier, i have given you too much credit, and you are far, far more intellectually inept than i could ever have imagined.

 
At 23 May, 2006 16:41, Blogger James B. said...

Not dressing right doesn't prove anything does it, especially given what this guy is saying?


If you can claim that the WTC collapse was a controlled demolition based on the fact that a bunch of people with no expertise in either demolitions or structural engineering say it looks like a controlled demolition, then we can certainly argue that he is not a soldier based on a large number of expert opinions on how a Ranger would dress.

 
At 23 May, 2006 16:47, Blogger LT said...

james,
I have come to the conclusion that black is white, good is bad, experts=don't know anything, and (because in some strange, unbelievable, awkward, it fits my agenda way) = most definitely is true. We are definitely far past rational, logical discourse, wouldn't you say?

 
At 23 May, 2006 17:21, Blogger Alex said...

"Oh, and I'm not saying that all people that are anti-war are loony. You can have intelligent reasons to be anti war, and I've argued many of them over and over with some of my very smart liberal anti-war friends."

I don't know about you LT, but I'm extremely anti-war. I think most (western) soldiers are. Anyone who's seen war first-hand, or who's heard second-hand accounts and lost friends or family members to it, should by all rights be opposed to war. I hate war and the necessity for it. However, being anti-war in now way means that one must be opposed to the use of violence in all situations. As John Stuart Mill famously stated:

"War is an ugly thing but not the ugliest of things; the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feelings which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.

Any reasonable human being is opposed to senseless violence being used to subjugate others. However, no one can forever escape the ravages of war unless there are people willing to defend our freedom. Even Trotsky has a great quote on the subject:

You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you.

 
At 23 May, 2006 17:24, Blogger shawn said...

As this is the current generational antiwar crowd's Vietnam (Iraq, that is), they need their My Lai badly.

As we often say about the partisans: "It's ok, because it's fake but accurate."


Alex, that is one of my all-time favorite war quotes.

Up there will Lee's "It is good that war is so terrible, lest we grow too fond of it."

 
At 23 May, 2006 17:25, Blogger Alex said...

"Not dressing right doesn't prove anything does it, especially given what this guy is saying?"

I'm sorry, weren't you the one claiming that it couldn't have been Osama in the videotapes because he was wearing a watch and a "gold" ring?

Goddamn hypocrites....

 
At 23 May, 2006 17:30, Blogger Alex said...

"As this is the current generational antiwar crowd's Vietnam (Iraq, that is), they need their My Lai badly."

Funny you should bring up Vietnam Shawn. You'll remember that the anti-war crowd during the Vietnam war had a rally in detroit known as "Winter Soldier", where several civvies pretended to be Vietnam veterans while testifying about "atrocities" that they supposedly commited. Guess every war's got it's own Jesse MacBeth.

 
At 23 May, 2006 17:41, Blogger nesNYC said...

FYI

You guys should know Pacifica is partly funded by the Ford Foundation (CFR). The controlled left is just as controlled as the controlled right. This story is strikingly similar to the Abu Grahib story.

The purpose, to make America look Nazi like in the world’s eye. This is the kind of stuff that will be used in the future to justify and invasion and destruction of the USA.

It's not made so much for American audiences, but to get Muslims and their supporters around the world to rally against the US.

Lindy England "I was just following orders."

 
At 23 May, 2006 17:46, Blogger shawn said...

This is the kind of stuff that will be used in the future to justify and invasion and destruction of the USA.

Odd, I'm actually writing a novel where the UN invades America and carries out its own nation building and regime change.

 
At 23 May, 2006 17:48, Blogger shawn said...

It's not made so much for American audiences, but to get Muslims and their supporters around the world to rally against the US.

Hey, something we kind of agree on!

Anyhow, I thought you said America is trying to brainwash us to hate Muslims. You can only have it one way.

 
At 23 May, 2006 17:59, Blogger Alex said...

"Odd, I'm actually writing a novel where the UN invades America and carries out its own nation building and regime change."

Got a timeline on that? I'd love to get a copy when it's completed.

If you're a sci-fi fan, there's a good series involving US Marines, the exploration of Mars, and war between the US and UN (or the US and most of the rest of the world). Look for Ian Douglas' Semper Mars

 
At 23 May, 2006 18:08, Blogger shawn said...

Got a timeline on that? I'd love to get a copy when it's completed.

I hope to have it done by the end of the summer (work and such has me tied up, so I have to juggle exercise, blogging, and writing every night and weekend).

 
At 23 May, 2006 18:38, Blogger nesNYC said...

Anyhow, I thought you said America is trying to brainwash us to hate Muslims. You can only have it one way.

Makes sense to me! Americans see negative propaganda against Muslims; Muslims see negative propaganda against Americans. Both groups grow to hate each other and commence to destroy each other. It's called "dived and conquer."

Also note, there are countries that have allied themselves to either side. I don't know about you but I smell a world war brewing. That's how they get started. Who's pulling the strings here? You decide.

 
At 23 May, 2006 18:40, Blogger nesNYC said...

Odd, I'm actually writing a novel where the UN invades America and carries out its own nation building and regime change.

Art mirroring reality?

 
At 23 May, 2006 18:42, Blogger shawn said...

I don't know about you but I smell a world war brewing.

I knew the second I watched the plane crash into the second tower live on television that a world war was on the horizon.

And then you go and cite an schatological site.

 
At 23 May, 2006 18:43, Blogger shawn said...

nesnyc, for once, I'm with. I do see the UN as a move at a one-world government, although it's failed at every turn. Same with the EU. Neither has any real authority, and they've been in the making for forty-fifty years.

 
At 23 May, 2006 18:43, Blogger shawn said...

I'm with you*

 
At 23 May, 2006 19:10, Blogger shawn said...

“Initial research by the U.S. Army Special Operations Command at Fort Bragg shows no Soldier with the name of Jesse Macbeth having ever been assigned to the Special Forces or the Army Rangers -- which are, in fact, two separate disciplines. This appears to be some sort of hoax. No Soldier by that name at Fort Lewis to our knowledge, in the past, either. Of course, the line about "go into the Army or go to jail" is vintage TV script not heard since the 1960s. There are also numerous wear and appearance issues with the Soldier's uniform -- a mix of foreign uniforms with the sleeves rolled up like a Marine and a badly floppy tan beret worn like a pastry chef. Of course, the allegations of war crimes are vague, as are the awards the Soldier allegedly received.”

http://justcitizens.blogspot.com/2006/05/nimrod-of-week.html

 
At 23 May, 2006 20:04, Blogger Alex said...

Shawn, are you planning on getting it published or is it just a side project for you? If you're getting it published, I'll need the title so I can buy a copy :)

 
At 23 May, 2006 20:14, Blogger shawn said...

When I do finish I will be trying to get it published, as my dream job is to be a novelist. Right now it has the working title House of War, but I'll probably have to change that, as that nonfiction title about the Pentagon was just released.

 
At 24 May, 2006 09:02, Blogger ScottSl said...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Macbeth

The Scholars for truth website is also promoting this garbage!!

 
At 24 May, 2006 09:43, Blogger Alex said...

That wikipedia article is friggin' HILARIOUS. Reads like some 13 yeard old kid's dream about becoming a ninja-sniper-special-forces-super-commando. I'm deffinitely printing that out and handing it out to my troops :)

 
At 24 May, 2006 10:08, Blogger BG said...

This (US led destruction of Fallujah) is one of reason I don't reject MacBeth's assertions out of hand.

 
At 24 May, 2006 10:43, Blogger ScottSl said...

Why I have no doubt how far the anti war movement is willing to go
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3716151.stm

 
At 24 May, 2006 11:22, Blogger James B. said...

Actually my favorite is when they reported the GI being held hostage in Iraq. It turned out it was a GI, GI Joe that is.

 
At 25 May, 2006 09:55, Blogger BG said...

Yep, I see the light now.

Jesse's can't have his facts right. Proof here:
A dozen Marines may face courts-martial for alleged Iraq massacre

 
At 25 May, 2006 11:18, Blogger ScottSl said...

Considering that there is no record of Jesse, yea I'd say he's horseshit

http://www.townhall.com/opinion/columns/michellemalkin/2006/05/24/198572.html

Now as to other possible massacres, I say let due process take it place and see what happens.

If these guys are guilty in wrong doing, then they deserve the strongest punishment.
I have no illusions. Some mistakes and wrong doing will happen.

But again, thanks for trying to paint our armed forces with the best brush possible.

Scott

 
At 25 May, 2006 13:47, Blogger shawn said...

hahaha Murtha "wouldn't be surprised". Why does that not surprise me?

And bg, if someone lies and something like it happens to be true, that doesn't mean the person was telling the truth. If I say I have a cancer, but don't actually get it until three years later, I was still lying when I said I originally had it.

 
At 29 September, 2009 05:55, Blogger shyam said...

Dude who are you GEORGE BUSH?
People am sure this is Bush;P
Mr.President we thank you for the present!!

 

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