Tuesday, September 26, 2006

Veterans for Truth?

The group "Veterans for 9/11 Truth", which started this whole SGT Chavez thing, is now questioning his validity, although ironically they are getting it wrong too. The site also steals from this blog without citing us, but that is a minor point:

The Veterans for 9/11 Truth have a Mission Operation Vigilant Truth so we do try to be as truthful as possible, and we have some issues with the story told by Lauro, on the Alex Jones Radio Show. Listen to Lauro on Alex Jones

Chavez: "Yeah, I was deployed to Afghanistan for 8 months. About 2 weeks after 9/11 happened. I was there in support of the United States SOCOM,which if everybody has played the game SOCOM they are actually a real entity, located all at MacDill Airforce Base, and I provide them with communications, for the special ops teams. We flew into Kabul Airport, we were actually under fire as we flew in."

Editor Note: The war started on Oct 7, 2001 almost 4 weeks after 9/11.

I find it odd that Lauro was deployed in Afghanistan, and has no ribbon on his DD 214. Proof of Lauro's Military Record

http://www.gruntsmilitary.com/afghancamp.shtml

Afghanistan Campaign Medal

4. Criteria: a. Authorized to be awarded to soldiers who deploy to Afghanistan in direct support of Operation Enduring Freedom (OEF) on or after 24 October 2001 to a date to be determined or the cessation of OEF.The area of eligibility encompasses all land area of the country of Afghanistan and all air spaces above the land.

I actually wouldn't expect Chavez to have the Afghanistan Campaign Medal on his DD-214, because it wasn't created until 2005. Originally they had planned to just have one medal for both Afghanistan and Iraq, but too many people complained about it (and rightly so) so they made separate ones.

But there are still several problems with his DD-214, he still should have some record of foreign service. In fact there is a category which specifically says "foreign service" on the DD-214, which in his case lists "0000 00 00". Also, even before the campaign ribbon was awarded he should have received an Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal (later changed to a Global War on Terrorism Expeditionary Medal) and it was also standard to award a NATO Medal.

Mr. Chavez replies to the V911t question in the comments on 911 blogger:

Alfons, you need but ask and I can explain why I have no ribbon on my 214 - and no combat action badge - its because of how I left the military. I used a chapter 13 to get out early for School. So go research that...

That was my loophole exit - however, I was there and I really dont give a crap about some ribbon. They give out ribbons like candy anyway. Who cares...

Lauro



I had no idea what a chapter 13 was, so I had to look it up. Turns out it is a "Separation for Unsatisfactory Performance." He omitted the part at the bottom of the DD-214 which lists the type of separation, so this is likely. This hardly strenghens his case though, and is a pretty weak excuse. Getting credit for a combat tour is not something you have to get special permission for, the admin people who are doing your discharge just go through your records and type it up. It is highly unlikely you would want it omitted from your DD-214, since that is what you base your veteran's benefits off of. If, for example, Mr. Chavez wanted to claim a disability from all that depleted uranium he supposedly was exposed to in Afghanistan, he would have a hard time doing so, because his DD-214 does not show he was ever in Afghanistan, or overseas at all.

This combined with the odd Special Forces Q course entry, and the lies about pulling guard duty on a non-existent pipeline, show the story is highly suspect.

20 Comments:

At 26 September, 2006 10:10, Blogger JPSlovjanski said...

FAAAAAAAKE!!! HE'S A FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKE!!!!

 
At 26 September, 2006 10:10, Blogger JPSlovjanski said...

FAAAAAAAKE!!! HE'S A FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKE!!!!

 
At 26 September, 2006 10:17, Blogger James B. said...

Oh my god, I was listening to an interview with this guy on the Power Hour,

http://www.uploading.com/files/D7VF8V8C/GCN_ThePowerHour_CHavez_LastPart.mp3.html

And while talking about a cruise missile hitting a Pentagon he claims that "there are tons of shoulder fired missiles which could do the same damage".

Hah! It is Korey Rowe, I knew it. You have never seen the two of them together, have you?

He also claims his DD-214 that he posted on-line shows that he had a honorable discharge. Uhh, no, actually it doesn't, you left out that part.

 
At 26 September, 2006 10:25, Blogger Pepik said...

His lies are so ridiculous he is either going to get swept under the rug with the pod theory or the new story is going to be that he a misinformation agent. And of course why would there be misinformation agents unless THERE IS A GIANT COVERUP/CONSPIRACY.

 
At 26 September, 2006 10:38, Blogger Lying_Dylan said...

If the government is smart enough to pull off 9/11 without ONE CREDIBLE witness that this was an inside job then why would allow of a sudden would they be STUPID ENOUGH to "plant" a misinformation agent so completetly stupid and over the top in this lies?
How do the Tin Foil Hatters expect people to believe that the governement is sooooo samrt as to be able to get away with 911 but all of their misinformation agents are completely stupid?

 
At 26 September, 2006 11:28, Blogger The Artistic Macrophage said...

Isn't there a way to verify his DD214. There has to be. If he is forging it (easy these days when all you present is a "digital pic" of it), than he would be in extremely deep shaite.

TAM

 
At 26 September, 2006 11:42, Blogger Triterope said...

His lies are so ridiculous... the new story is going to be that he a misinformation agent.

"For all we know, he could be a disinfo plant."

 
At 26 September, 2006 12:17, Blogger SFC B said...

He only posted the short form of the 214. The long form version will contain his separation information. I'd actually be curious to see that.

As for his awards... well... it's not sitting with me right.

He served over 6 years. Barring being a dirt bag you get a Good Conduct Medal every three years. He only has one. Doesn't mean the second award wasn't in the pipeline, but that's a low level award that can be fixed quickly at the time of separation. However, the lack of a second GCMDL supports the "unsatisfactory performance" discharge.

Also, the Army doesn't list it as the Army Good Conduct Medal. It's simply the Good Conduct Medal. The Marine Corps though will list it as the MC-GCMDL.

He should also have two National Defense Service Medals. The eligibile period prior to 9-11 ended in NOV of 1995. He was at BCT during that period was would have been eligible to wear the NDSM for that period. He'd have been eligible for a second one after 9-11. It's not conclusive proof of anything, but again, it's something that a Soldier looking for promotion points would have likely known.

All his other awards are Joint Command awards. If he was assigned to CENTCOM that makes sense, however if he was actually performing the duties he says he was, he'd have been with an Army unit, and would have received Army awards, not joint awards. I find it strange that he'd not have received one Army award, an Army Achievement Medal or an Army Commendation Medal in a six year career. Particulary since he was such a high speed Soldier that he went through the SF Selection course during his first two years in the service as a 74B.

 
At 26 September, 2006 12:26, Blogger SFC B said...

After looking at it closer, you know what? I'm going to go ahead and say his section 13 and 14 of his 214 are bullshit. The dates in section 14 aren't done correctly. All dates on a 214 are complete (Year, Month, Day). In section 14 there are two dates listed. One for PLDC and one for SFQC. The PLDC date is 02 1997 and the SFQC course is 07 1997. If you look down in block 18 you'll see a couple different dates given for his time in the DEP and his reenlistments. All the dates are listed YYYYMMDD. None of them are in a MM YYYY format.

If that form hasn't been altered the clerk at McDill AFB's out-processing station should be counseled.

 
At 26 September, 2006 12:43, Blogger James B. said...

A minor point, but he doesn't even have an NCO Professional Delopment Ribbon.

 
At 26 September, 2006 12:49, Blogger AndyUts said...

Just a bit of praise, wanted to say thanks, I finally got my friends to shut up about this stupid conspiracy crap.

When I mentioned that 'Screw Loose Change' video, though, they directed me here to "http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=12824" . Thought you guys might like to pick it over.

 
At 26 September, 2006 12:51, Blogger James B. said...

Uhh, that should be "development"

 
At 26 September, 2006 13:07, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just a bit of praise, wanted to say thanks, I finally got my friends to shut up about this stupid conspiracy crap.

Your friends may be suffering from True Believer Syndrome.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_believer_syndrome

"Since by definition those suffering from true-believer syndrome are irrationally committed to their beliefs, there is no point in arguing with them. Evidence and logical argument mean nothing to them. Such people are by definition deluded in the psychiatric sense of the term: they believe what is false and are incapable of being persuaded by evidence and argument that their notions are in error."

 
At 26 September, 2006 13:25, Blogger Lying_Dylan said...

That pretty much sums up my co worker.
He goes on and on about 9-11 this and 9-11 that.
I have pretty much igored him given that any arguements I make go nowhere given how imbeded he is in the Tin Foil Hat community.

 
At 26 September, 2006 13:34, Blogger Jujigatami said...

Andyuts

"http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Foru"

Just about everyone that posts here is banned from the LC forum for simply asking them for even one single solitary shred of evidence to back up their rantings.

Pat and James will on occasion post a "stupid LC forum post of the day"

The sheer stupidity of the posts on that forum speak for themselves, not to mention the rampant antisemitism.

 
At 26 September, 2006 13:54, Blogger MarkyX said...


Thought you guys might like to pick it over.


I read it. Commentary is NOT a rebuttal. They havne't provided any evidence whatsoever that what I say is false.

 
At 26 September, 2006 14:18, Blogger apathoid said...

Good observations SFC. I have mine right here in front of me and it does in fact say "Army Good Conduct Medal". I also find it odd that he doesnt have an AAM or an ARCOM in 6 years(I have 2 each in 4 years), but does have an MSM. His markmanship entry is totally different from mine as well.

Anyone else notice the the "Special Forces Qualification School" text beind the "//" is offset and crooked? Or is it just me? I'm guessing it was added later by typewriter(thought there is a Truetype font that can accurately mimic ink type). I'm guessing it's fakery.

 
At 26 September, 2006 18:02, Blogger SFC B said...

I pulled some other 214s and there's a mix of "Army Good Conduct Medal" and "Good Conduct Medal". So I was wrong about that. Another thing I noticed though is the final entry on Sections 13 and 14. In sections 11 and 18 the final entry "NOTHING FOLLOWS" has no characters following it. In 13 and 14 though it reads "NOTHING FOLLOWS//" I've seen them done both ways, but never in the same document.

This reminds me a lot of Jesse MacBeth, although a bit better done.

 
At 26 September, 2006 18:08, Blogger James B. said...

I am still waiting for the backwards Ranger beret with the 1st Group flash...

 
At 29 September, 2006 07:53, Blogger McQ said...

If he was deployed to Afghanistan, why does his service computation on his 214 list all "0" in "Foreign Service"?

 

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