Sunday, September 24, 2006

The Newest "Whistleblower"

In the tradition of Richard Andrew Grove, the truthers have found their newest "whistleblower", in this case a man named Lauro Chavez, who claims to be a former Army sergeant who served in CENTCOM. A quick analysis of his "whistleblowing" shows he is suspect, to say the least:

Ill start by saying a few months prior it was announced by President Bush that Dick Cheney would be heading up operations over NORAD our North American Aerospace Defense Command. Along with many of my peers,we were shocked. Over the years, if you research NORAD, it has always been under the command of a Military officer.
This is simply not true, the commander of NORAD in 2001 was Ralph Eberhart, an Air Force General.

On the morning of 9-11 I had been on base prepped and ready to go since about 0400am.
Anyone who has ever spent 10 minutes in the military, would know there is no such thing as "0400am".

So, I was standing in the SCIF (Secure Compartmented Information Facility), which is basically this underground bunker command post for USCENTCOM, when the first plane hit.
SCIF actually stands for "Sensitive Compartmented Information Facility"

To delve even further, as Im standing there watching the towers collapse, next to me is one of my good friends and a former commander of the Army Corps of engineers. He is a demolitions expert. He was even more surprised than me.
The commander of the Army Corps of Engineers is a Lieutenant General. What are the odds that a SGT (E-5) would be standing there in a bunker chatting with a "good friend" who is a former 3 star general?

We all knew then we all realized that this was not some group of unorganized cave dwellers from Afghanistan orchestrating a perfect hit on American soil.

Anyone who had spent some time in CENTCOM would know that Al Qaeda was not just a group of "unorganized cave dwellers". They are an organized international network of Islamic terrorists.

Shortly after the Pentagon was struck I called my close friend that I went to Basic Training with. All civilian lines were down and I had to contact him via STU which is a black line classified phone system.

A STU (Secure Telephone Unit) is not a type of phone system, it is a type of phone. The military phone system is actually referred to as DSN (Defense Switched Network).

On September 25, 4 days before my 25th birthday,I deployed to Afghanistan.

Unless this guy was some sort of elite special ops soldier (unlikely for an E-5) it is unlikely he deployed on September 25th, the US didn't even begin the bombing of Afghanistan until October 7th. The widespread use of ground troops was still a couple of months off.

Over the 8 months I was there I had never seen one intelligent Afghani soldier. They were all tattered and scrawny and could barely shoot their weapons straight. This does not mean that there were not men that could fly a plane, but after what I saw it was extremely hard to believe they could be taught to fly a sophisticated piece of aeronautical equipment.

The last I checked no Afghan soldiers (Afghani is their money, not their people) piloted any of the 4 planes. I am pretty sure this information reached CENTCOM.

Not only does he [Steven Jones] profoundly agree that building 7 was a controlled demolition he can prove it. After he analyzed the piece of debris they found; there were large traces of sulfur and Thermite found. If you did not know, Thermite is a chemical compound found in many explosives including C4 which I have used many times in the Army. It leaves a distinct smell and identifiable residue upon explosion. Dr Jones found large traces of this from the rubble.

Thermite is an incendiary, not an explosive, and it is most certainly not used in C4.

I don't know what this guy has been using, but it definitely wasn't C4...

Update: I originally found this story posted on the Veterans for "Truth" site via the "Scholars" for 9/11 "Truth" site (we all know what sticklers for the truth they are). 911 Blogger has picked up the story though, along with a bunch of comments both supporting and attacking him. Of course, in the usual conspiracy theorist "heads I win, tails you lose" logic, if he is a fake, it is only because he is a plant by their enemies to discredit the movement.

Mr. Chavez's e-mail is in the original article, so I wrote him to give him a chance to respond.

34 Comments:

At 24 September, 2006 11:09, Blogger The Artistic Macrophage said...

Man this guys credentials need to be checked. he sounds like either (a) a very stupid soldier, or (b) a liar, or (c) both.

Where do they find them. Oh yes I can see the head of the corps chit chatting with a 25y sergeant.

TAM

 
At 24 September, 2006 11:16, Blogger The Artistic Macrophage said...

Based on the CT crowd response, he is likely fake. Most of them are even questioning his credentials.

lol...

TAM

 
At 24 September, 2006 11:25, Blogger James B. said...

Where have you seen a discussion of him? I just saw this on ST911, which doesn't have comments.

 
At 24 September, 2006 13:02, Blogger zippychippy said...

Gee, isn't it intresting that in all these type of stories the main character always has a friend that's a demolition expert?

 
At 24 September, 2006 13:23, Blogger CHF said...

Hey twoofers:

instead of making up whistleblowers, why not just talk to some structural engineers?

If you've got da twoof on your side then they should back you up.

 
At 24 September, 2006 13:26, Blogger CHF said...

Over the 8 months I was there I had never seen one intelligent Afghani soldier. They were all tattered and scrawny and could barely shoot their weapons straight.

I think any military man knows that no one ever claimed that Afghan soldiers carried out 9/11.

And Stephen Jones didn't find thermite.

Sounds like another high school stoner pretending to be a soldier on the internet.

 
At 24 September, 2006 14:51, Blogger The Artistic Macrophage said...

http://www.911blogger.com/node/3116

The very link you posted james...lol

TAM

 
At 24 September, 2006 14:54, Blogger James B. said...

I discovered that after I asked you the question. Thanks.

 
At 24 September, 2006 15:03, Blogger Stevew said...

It sounds like he took all the CT talking points and coined a letter. Some of what he said is almost word for word what the whaks have been saying for the last 5 years, at least he could have changed some of the terminology.

The CT'rs will stop at nothing to try and hurt this country. Some of the lies and just plain BS are beyond the pale

 
At 24 September, 2006 15:31, Blogger Good Lieutenant said...

Jesse Macbeth - move over!

 
At 24 September, 2006 15:39, Blogger Cassiopeia said...

But if they've got so much evidence, and the tide of public opinion is turning their way then why would the Truthers need to make sh*t up? I'm confused.

 
At 24 September, 2006 16:01, Blogger Stevew said...

Cassiopeia
Or why have they not gotten people like Soro'r to back them in fileing charges

 
At 24 September, 2006 16:14, Blogger MarkyX said...

Best reply on that shitty blog. Some guy was talking about the Norman testimony.


Read the rest of his testimony. He said he found later it was a shoot down.

But if you go by that testimony, then you are agreeing that Flight 77 hit the Pentagon! Congrats, case closed, lets move onto our lives now!

 
At 24 September, 2006 16:22, Blogger Richard said...

FAKE! FAKE! FAKE!

 
At 24 September, 2006 18:17, Blogger Alex said...

James:

This is simply not true, the commander of NORAD in 2001 was Ralph Eberhart, an Air Force General.


What this guy is talking about is that in recent times the SOP for launching fighters to intercept suspicious aircraft was changed. Originally it was the commanders call, at some point it changed so that they required authorization from the white house. At least, that's the rumor that the CTers have been floating and I haven't bothered checking it.

Thermite is an incendiary, not an explosive, and it is most certainly not used in C4.

That's the big one. I was reading through the rest of the article getting a weird feeling about the guy, but once I saw him claim that thermite was a component of C4 I knew immediately that he's full of shit. Even most civilians should know that that's wrong, let alone a special forces Sgt working at CENTCOM who's also best buddies with a three star general.

 
At 24 September, 2006 18:39, Blogger James B. said...

Well Mr. Chavez replied rather politely, but did not address any of the points I had mentioned, other than saying he kicked Tommy Franks' yapping poodles and was in the J-6. At least he got the terminology right. He said he might address it in the future, but didn't want to "support your negative views".

 
At 24 September, 2006 19:39, Blogger The Artistic Macrophage said...

probably a disgruntled former soldier with a beef to pick with the USG

 
At 24 September, 2006 20:01, Blogger Simon Lazarus said...

I notice that the "Truth" Movement consists of liars, morons, imbeciles, and doofuses.

And with increasing frequency, they try to get "experts" in certain fields to become "witnesses."

But these "experts" turn out to be cold-blooded liars.

How many times can a fake movement be discredited before people just write those in the movement off? For the "Truth" movement, that time has come and passed.

 
At 24 September, 2006 22:42, Blogger t said...

And Stephen Jones didn't find thermite-WRONG answer. Stop shilling for your beloved dictator and tell the American people the truth.

As a person with an education in this field, I'll explain it to you rednecks so you may understand.

I make a steel frame from an erector set-I enclose it with a mesh steel or aluminum screen. I poke a pencil through it-and guess what-the whole thing doesn't collapse now does it? Thats the simple version for simple minds.

Nobody is saying Bush did it-we are just saying he was too stupid to read his Aug 6 2001 presidential daily briefing and is too retarded to protect the country. Not to mention, it would be impossible for the secret service to let bush sit on his ass in a classroom full of children-unless they knew he was in no danger. Explain that. I've had security VIP training, have you? It doesn't matter what Bush would say, their job was to remove him immediately.

You know too little of the facts to make your arguments.
The Sgt knows more than you, even if he is not an expert-he is still a better witness.

Cheney is another story...get your facts straight before you go off on your own conspiracy theory.

And by the way, why don't you ask a real demolition expert? An honest one will tell you the event that dropped those buildings wasn't fire and explain why building 7 fell.
While your at it explain why ALL the surviving cops and firefighters are gagged by the DOJ. Oh that's right you can't-you'd have to tell the truth. 3,000 innocent Americans died and yet you cover the rears of the incompetents-incredible!!

 
At 24 September, 2006 22:46, Blogger JPSlovjanski said...

This guy may have not been in the military at all, judging from his INCREDIBLE stupidity and ignorance. I suggest running his name by the people at specsec.org. Every part of his article I read shows a red flag.

 
At 24 September, 2006 22:48, Blogger Pat said...

That's funny because the part I immediately saw was BS was the usual crap about there being exercises that day that involved hijacked planes into the WTC and Pentagon. That's laughable on its face; the kind of thing a 9-11 newbie would try.

 
At 24 September, 2006 23:05, Blogger James B. said...

I make a steel frame from an erector set-I enclose it with a mesh steel or aluminum screen. I poke a pencil through it-and guess what-the whole thing doesn't collapse now does it? Thats the simple version for simple minds.


Wow, someone has been listening to Jim Fetzer speeches, I am so impressed.

Nobody is saying Bush did it-we are just saying he was too stupid to read his Aug 6 2001 presidential daily briefing and is too retarded to protect the country.

Uhh, actually there are a lot of people who are saying that.

Not to mention, it would be impossible for the secret service to let bush sit on his ass in a classroom full of children-unless they knew he was in no danger.

So the Secret Service did it?

 
At 24 September, 2006 23:40, Blogger JPSlovjanski said...

The cops and firefighters AREN'T gagged. They have been talking about their experiences all the time. Don't you CT nuts remember using their statements to "prove" that bombs were in the building? Bombs that randomly go off for over an hour, and yet are made from THERMITE?

 
At 25 September, 2006 00:27, Blogger JPSlovjanski said...

I just finished reading this whole article and I am CONVINCED that this guy is fake. Other army personnel here might remember in basic training a demonstration of the M14 incindiery grenade, which uses thermate. I don't remember any distinctive smell, and I was fairly close by.

More importantly, that demonstration was precisely the reason why I laughed my ass off the first time I heard CTs claiming thermate brought down the towers- when you actually SEE how thermate works, you would never believe that they could be used in a controlled demolition.

Run this guy through specsec.org(or maybe net). He has got to be a fake, he may never have been in the military.

 
At 25 September, 2006 05:15, Blogger shawn said...

beloved dictator

Elected official who can't even get his legislation through.

Yup, sounds like a dictator all right.

Every time you idiots call him a dictator you minimize the horror that real people have to go through every day living under real dictators.

As a person with an education in this field, I'll explain it to you rednecks so you may understand.

I wasn't aware Massachusetts was the home of rednecks. And unfortunately, your analogy shows you have zero education in said field.

 
At 25 September, 2006 05:46, Blogger Alex said...

"zero education in anything" might be more accurate. Mr. "T" is the embodiment of just about every CT stereotype out there. Only a truly twisted mind could claim that "Nobody is saying Bush did it" while simultaneously claiming the WTC was demolished.

 
At 25 September, 2006 06:25, Blogger MarkyX said...


And Stephen Jones didn't find thermite-WRONG answer. Stop shilling for your beloved dictator and tell the American people the truth.


He found Sulfur, which came from Sulfur-based drywall. He hasn't proven that Thermite is used in Controlled Demolitions (hint: It isn't) or how they cut in a "straight diagonal line". He hasn't done any experiments or shown any concrete evidence; a complete opposite of a scientist.


As a person with an education in this field, I'll explain it to you rednecks so you may understand.


Toronto is full of rednecks?


I make a steel frame from an erector set-I enclose it with a mesh steel or aluminum screen. I poke a pencil through it-and guess what-the whole thing doesn't collapse now does it? Thats the simple version for simple minds.


Did your degree from a roll of toilet paper? That isn't even remotely identical to what happened on 9/11, and Leslie Robertson would know; he helped designed the building!


Not to mention, it would be impossible for the secret service to let bush sit on his ass in a classroom full of children-unless they knew he was in no danger.


You have proof? Where is their policy concerning a situation like this in black and white?


The Sgt knows more than you, even if he is not an expert-he is still a better witness.


Hardly. He believes thermite is in C4s. Even I know that it isn't, and even I understand that thermite does not create a shatter-like explosion needed for a controlled demolition. Thermite burns, not explodes.


And by the way, why don't you ask a real demolition expert? An honest one will tell you the event that dropped those buildings wasn't fire and explain why building 7 fell.


Controlled demolition experts have come forward and stated that the possibility of bombs being used in the WTC and WTC7 is a stupid.


While your at it explain why ALL the surviving cops and firefighters are gagged by the DOJ.


That's why they some of them either emailed or phoned me about their experiences. They understand that if it was really bombs, they wouldn't be telling me about fires. They understand that someone being on fire or skin melting off is a result of fires, not bombs. They were also afraid of the electrical fires throughout the building.

I've spoken to them, have you?

 
At 25 September, 2006 06:31, Blogger Stevew said...

SS protocals
There also was a certain amount of time it would take to get his security gathered, the car, what protocalls have to be observed which he has to abide by. Lets see how many people in the Presidents party? How many vehicles? How many police escorts? Where are the drivers? Now many other little details that have to be set in motion when suddenly the schedule changes?
We don't know all that went on, all anyone can do is speculate or guess, it was something that had never happened before.

WTC7
http://www.implosionworld.com/WTC%20COLLAPSE%20STUDY%20BBlanchard%208-8-06.pdf

 
At 25 September, 2006 06:35, Blogger Stevew said...

This is one of the CT'ers experts
This proves it was CD LOL

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=56836&mesg_id=56836

 
At 25 September, 2006 07:12, Blogger furrod said...

t's post is a parody, right? It's so hard to tell these days.

 
At 25 September, 2006 07:54, Blogger James B. said...

Other army personnel here might remember in basic training a demonstration of the M14 incindiery grenade, which uses thermate. I don't remember any distinctive smell, and I was fairly close by.


I remember that too. They melted a hole into an engine block. I am still trying to figure out how that could cut horizontally through a steel beam...

I think what he actually said was that the (Thermite laden) C4 has a distinctive smell. Even more bizarre.

 
At 25 September, 2006 08:31, Blogger JPSlovjanski said...

I almost missed that CT stereotype he threw at us: Rednecks.

Yes, lots of rednecks like me live in F@##ing RUSSIA you tin-foil-hat-wearing moron!!!

 
At 25 September, 2006 12:28, Blogger The Artistic Macrophage said...

t: (or "idiot" as I will refer to you from now on)

And Stephen Jones didn't find thermite-WRONG answer.

I have read his paper. At no point does it say "We found Thermite". It does say they found sulfur residue, which one would find if Thermite was used. I am not a redneck, idiot.

Gypsum Drywall is full of sulfur, and the WTCs were full of drywall.


Stop shilling for your beloved dictator and tell the American people the truth.

I personally am Canadian, not american, but we lost 25 on 9/11 so shove it idiot.

As a person with an education in this field, I'll explain it to you rednecks so you may understand.

Obviously you have no education in how to talk to people, so I will force myself down to your level, idiot.

I make a steel frame from an erector set-I enclose it with a mesh steel or aluminum screen. I poke a pencil through it-and guess what-the whole thing doesn't collapse now does it? Thats the simple version for simple minds.

No, that is a completely wrong, inappropriate version with no relevance to the towers collapse, idiot.

Nobody is saying Bush did it-we are just saying he was too stupid to read his Aug 6 2001 presidential daily briefing and is too retarded to protect the country.

Biggest lie yet, idiot. The vast majority of the 9/11 "truth" movement goes far beyond saying that BUSH et al were just incompetent. Most people who post here, are actually democrats, and will be the first to point out his incompetence. Most of "you guys" in fact claim that Bush et al purposely planned and carried out 9/11 so don't give me that crap, idiot.

Not to mention, it would be impossible for the secret service to let bush sit on his ass in a classroom full of children-unless they knew he was in no danger.

Despite what you think, and what others would have you believe, the President can make the decision to act in opposition to SS suggestions.
As well, they likely had already assessed the local area, including the school, and new it was safe, so for that time may have felt it was ok to let him remain for a while.

You don't know the facts of what was said, so just shut up with your speculation, idiot.


Explain that. I've had security VIP training, have you? It doesn't matter what Bush would say, their job was to remove him immediately.

Impress me with your credentials, idiot. Unless you were there, as part of the SS that day, you are speaking through your anus, idiot.
There are many people who consider themselves debunkers of the 9/11 myths who do have security training, so don't insinuate that anyone with said training believes your shaite.

You know too little of the facts to make your arguments.

You are so full of it, I can barely stand the odor. 95% of the people who post here could talk circles around all of the lame arguments the "9/11 truth" group brings in here, including you I am sure. Go over to JREF with this attitude and see how far you get...unless your chicken, idiot.


The Sgt knows more than you, even if he is not an expert-he is still a better witness.


I consider him a fake until proven otherwise, as everyone should. So far all we have is his word, no proof. He may have been in the military, but beyond that his story is EXTREMELY suspect and without any support but his words.

Cheney is another story...get your facts straight before you go off on your own conspiracy theory.


Your proof. Your evidence, where is it idiot. Otherwise you are just lipping off.

And by the way, why don't you ask a real demolition expert? An honest one will tell you the event that dropped those buildings wasn't fire and explain why building 7 fell.

Is that right. Funny that NIST had Demolition Experts amongst them, and Protec interviewed many who actually worked on the investigation, and none of them think that any of the WTCs were brought down by CD, they all believe it was the fires plus plane impact damage plus removal of spray on fireproofing. MIT engineers, the ASCE all believe the towers came down from the attacks alone, not from Controlled Demolition.

Where are your experts, idiot?

While your at it explain why ALL the surviving cops and firefighters are gagged by the DOJ.

They are not. Prove they are. Where is your DOJ citation telling ALL NYFD and NYPD they may not talk to anyone about 9/11, idiot?

Oh that's right you can't-you'd have to tell the truth. 3,000 innocent Americans died and yet you cover the rears of the incompetents-incredible!!

No what is incredible is how disloyal you are as an american, accusing hundred of law abiding citizens, such as the workers of NIST and FEMA, as well as the FBI, NORAD< and FAA, as well as other organizations, of keeping hush hush on the murders of 3000 people. How insulting to call all these people assistants in mass murder without ANY, ANY solid evidence or proof. Shame on you, idiot.

I have had it with you ignorant, self righteous morons coming here and calling us things without cause or proof. Most people here merely want to show those who do not know better that if you cut past all the heresay and speculation and conjecture, the facts, the SOLID evidence, does not back up any of the consipracy theories.

Now if, you yourself, are just claiming, and only claiming, that BUSH et al were incompetent, and that is why Bin Ladin et al were able to pull off 9/11, then we have no argument, as I agree that is why 9/11 happened. Somehow, from all of your accusations though, I think you feel BUSH et al planned and carried out 9/11...am I right?

TAM

 
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