Improbable Collapse Initial Thoughts
I only had the time (and the stomach) to watch about ten minutes worth of this movie today. The opening is mostly familiar clips although they do highlight the ABC feed on the shot of the damage to WTC 7 that we mentioned the other day.
Then, the initial credits came up and drew a horselaugh:
Based on the Research of:
Dr Steven E. Jones
Kevin Ryan
and James T. Hoffman
Reading from top to bottom, a discredited BYU physicist currently suspended by the university, a water tester who was fired by his company for claiming to have expertise in steel testing, and an engineer. Well, actually a software engineer.
Voiceover starts. Boring female voice, not much to recommend it. Lots of pictures of men holding machine guns and much moaning about all the rights we've lost under the Patriot Act.
There follows a bunch of clips where people talk about their conspiracy theories. Daniel Ellsberg apparently embraces LIHOP. David Ray Griffin gives a little speech. Then we get a 9-11 Denier debating with a bunch of people at Ground Zero. Interestingly, the widow that Dylan gave a Loose Change DVD on 9/11/05 appears just to the left of the guys yelling at the Denier.
Okay, ten minutes into this thing and there's been no evidence presented of anything, just a bunch of clips with no apparent theme and no apparent sequence. BORING!
posted by Pat @ 6:20 PM
57 comments
57 Comments:
Video with steel with little mass flaction and steel at 700°C
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XImfLnBbBFQ
good bye
Excellent experiment.
awesome video. It is actually a better experiment that Jones et al did with the metal and woodchips scenario...great flick.
TAM
That's how you perform an experiment. Way better than chicken wire and a burning news paper.
Weird I'm watching the repeat of the 9/11 episode on Comedy Central and they changed Bush's voice so it sounds more like the real deal (though I thought it was funnier with the original voice).
though I thought it was funnier with the original voice
Yeah, it was awesome, he sounded kind of like Dr. Evil.
Please Read the rest of the story Below about 9/11 cover up:
This post will not last, So Copy and paste the info onto notepad or wordpad and do not refresh this page. Thx.
More info goto http://www.prisonplanet.com/911.html and my favorite: http://www.rense.com/general57/aale.htm
I am going to give reasons proving The U.S. Govt did it, how they did it, and at the end I am going to give reasons why they did it.
1. Operation Northwoods, "N E W Y O R K, May 1, 2001 In the early 1960s, America's top military leaders reportedly drafted plans to kill innocent people and commit acts of terrorism in U.S. cities to create public support for a war against Cuba.":
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92662&pa...id=92662&page=1
2. Alex Jones Predicts Attack (Mentioned on FOX news): http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8116395518760933323&q=alex+jones+predicts+attack&hl=en
3. God Help Us: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2024198565295094630&q=alex+jones+a+call+to+action&hl=en
4. At least 4 hijackers turned up alive, but i heard as many as 9
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1559151.stm
5. The melting Point of Steel is 3000F and Fire is around 500-700F with burning Jet fuel around 1200-1400F. Skeptics have claimed, Steel doesnt Have to melt, but only weaken to collpase, This May be true, HOWEVER, It would not make a 1/4 Mile High Skyscraper, Collapse in 9-10 Seconds.
6. An increase of 400% increase in put options on 9-6-01 and 9-7-01 on serveral airline stocks. An increase of 1100% Increase an in increase of put options on airline stocks on 9-10-01
7. FBI confinscated tapes at a nearby hotel and gas station minutes after the "plane" hit the pentagon.
8. Debris from the building was taken and illegally sold to china before anybody could really investigate.
9. If you watch the video of the towers coming down, You can notice bombs going off in the building.
10. Larry Silverstein Admitted blowing up WTC7 On a PBS Documentary. Skeptics Have Claimed He meant He was Pulling the Firefighters From the Building. Thats Funny, I thought When you call a person or persons "him" "them" or "em" not "it". Meanwhile The firefighters Were already Pulled from the Building 7 Houes before it Collpased. Skeptics Have Claimed, Well Maybe he did hit the Dynamite, But It takes severals weeks for them to carefully place explosives in a building. Call any Demolition Company.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7750532340306101329&q=larry+silverstein+pull+it&hl=en
11. Larry Silverstein got High Insurance on WTC7 Including terrosm insurance.
12. 6 Months Before 9/11 They passed laws saying No pilots can carry guns, when pilots were allowed to carry guns for 40 years. (I am not sure this is 100% Accurate, I need to look into this more. Please Let me know if you find anything.)
13. As Charlie Sheen said, How can a plane make a 270 degree turn and drop 7000 feet in attitude in less then 2 minutes?
14. I heard it is impossible for cell phones to work on planes moving at 500mph and at 30000 Feet.
15. The "hijackers" said the wrong islamic message when approaching death. Who was
16. Survivors and Eye witnesses Reporting seeing, hearing explosions.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2032865563019209801&q=9+11+FIREFIGHTERS&hl=en Laugh at the Firefighters!!
17. Thermite was found at the scene. BYU Professor Steve E. Jones Have tested Postive some substance for Thermite, It was later Proven to cut the Main Pillars in the World Trade Center. It was the yellow goowy substance Dripping From the towers as CNN, FOX, Etc reported on 9/11/01.
http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,635198488,00.html
18. Janitor was offered Millions of dallors to shut up and he refused, or so he said. See Video #6
19. Science Says Buildings Collasping CAN NOT fall at the speed of gravity unless Dynimite.
20. In the New American Century Dick Cheney Said We need a new Pearl Harbor. "Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event — like a new Pearl Harbor."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century
21. Less then 15 Million Was spend Investigating 9-11 and more then 45 Million on Clintons Sex Life. (Appox)
22. How can a 757 That is 129' Wide Make a 16' Hole?
23. Between Both Engines on Flight 77 Or a 757, Its combined weight is 10-12 Tons. It is made of Steel And Titnium. Its melting Point is around 2600F. The Fire didnt get anywhre near that tempurature at the Pentagon. Yet No Engines Were Found.
24. You think fire can cause this?:
http://www.proliberty.com/observer/20060820.htm
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2006/04/13/more_bone_fragments_found_near_wtc_site/?rss_id=Boston.com+%2F+News
25. Bush say the First Plane hit the First Tower! LOL!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F6kouXg40Q&mode=related&search
26. Jimmy Walter Is offering $100,000 To Anybody Who can Prove 9/11 Was NOT An Inside Job. Even PM Couldnt Stand Up.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=41957
For more evidence watch these films:
1. http://www.loosechange911.com
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7866929448192753501&q=loose+change&hl=en
2. 9/11 The Greatest Lie ever sold: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6952102263921897950&q=9%2F11+THE+GREATEST+LIE+EVER+SOLD&hl=en
3. 9/11 the Road to Tyranny: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6517776133137328105&q=9%2F11+the+Road+to+Tyranny&hl=en
4. Masters of Terror: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7752483415674202196&q=MASTERS+OF+TERROR
5. Martial Law: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6495462761605341661&q=MARTIAL+LAW+RISE+OF+POLICE+STATE
6. C-SPAN conference: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5004704309041471296&q=AMERICAN+C+SPAN
7. TerrorStorm: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=786048453686176230&hl=en
Now I am going to give you why they did it, then i will share some links.
1. Patriot act
2. Patriot act 2
3. Eliminate the Consitution
4. Bring forth the NWO
5. Bankrupt the USA to bring forth a NWO
6. Scare americans to give up there right in exchange for "security" when you will just get tyranny and a police state.
7. Justify an Iraq War.
8. Bring forth a Real ID Act, which was passed on 5-11-05, and then the "mark of the beast"
9. To Pretty Much Allow Bush to do anything He wants. Look at this:
http://mathaba.net/0_index.shtml?x=504353
Now if you want links goto http://www.911blogger.com/ and check that out and there are 50 links on the right hand side.
Also check out http://www.infowars.com http://prisonplanet.com http://www.jonesreport.com
Last But not Least:
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils%20in%20Government/911%20Cover-up/truth_about_911.htm
http://www.prisonplanet.com/911.html
Hitler Once Said, The Bigger the Lie, The easier it is Believed.
War on terror is a scam!!
"In January of 2003 FBI and CIA whistleblowers told Capitol Hill Blue that the White House was scripting phony terror alerts to maintain hysteria, upkeep President Bushs approval ratings and milk extra defense funding. The report that five Pakistani men had entered the States via Canada and were planning on carrying out a dirty bomb or biological attack was completely conjured up by the Bush administrations black propaganda office. New York Harbor was shut down to visibly pump up the fear. One of the named suspects, Mohammed Asghar (pictured left), was tracked down to Pakistan by the Associated Press. He was a fat guy running a jewellers shop and had never even been to America.
http://infowars.com/articles/sept11/red_alert_for_staged_terror_attack.htm
Thank You for reading, We must fight this and expose this and resist The New World Order, and Resist the cashless society.
http://www.infowars.com/articles/sept11/debunking_911_website_debunks_itself.htm
Sleepy-
It would work better if you would post on one topic related to this thread so that you could learn the truth about it. After hanging around for a couple of weeks you'd have all your questions answered.
This post will not last, So Copy and paste the info onto notepad or wordpad and do not refresh this page. Thx.
Ahh the persecution complex.
Pat and James don't silence you idiots.
1. Operation Northwoods
Ooops written by one guy and rejected, also if they planned on using it in the future they wouldn't have declassified it.
2. Alex Jones Predicts Attack
This is how psychics work. They make thousands of predictions, and at least one has to stick.
4. At least 4 hijackers turned up alive, but i heard as many as 9
None are alive. A BBC story twelve days after the attacks mistook people with the same name as the hijackers, Der Spiegel (no friend of America) debunked this "living hijackers" nonsense.
Skeptics have claimed, Steel doesnt Have to melt, but only weaken to collpase, This May be true, HOWEVER, It would not make a 1/4 Mile High Skyscraper, Collapse in 9-10 Seconds.
The towers take about 20 seconds to collapse (they'd be falling faster than free-fall, an impossibility, if they collapsed in nine to ten seconds).
6. An increase of 400% increase in put options on 9-6-01 and 9-7-01 on serveral airline stocks.
Not evidence for an inside job.
7. FBI confinscated tapes at a nearby hotel and gas station minutes after the "plane" hit the pentagon.
And we've seen the gas station tape. As we all predicted (wow we must be Alex Jones!) it wasn't pointed at the Pentagon. Security tapes tend to point at the areas they're protecting, not an office building that happens to be nearby.
8. Debris from the building was taken and illegally sold to china before anybody could really investigate.
Although untrue, how would this prove it to be an inside job?
9. If you watch the video of the towers coming down, You can notice bombs going off in the building.
Explosives go off before a collapse, not during (they'd be useless once the collapse began). What you're seeing is debris and air being forced out from the floors coming down.
10. Larry Silverstein Admitted blowing up WTC7
He did not. "Pull it" is not used in controlled demolition. It is used when machines are attached by cables to walls and they are then pulled in so as not to damage nearby structures.
11. Larry Silverstein got High Insurance on WTC7 Including terrosm insurance.
1993 attack on the WTC.
13. As Charlie Sheen said, How can a plane make a 270 degree turn and drop 7000 feet in attitude in less then 2 minutes?
Where's the evidence it can't? Sheen isn't exactly an aeronautical expert.
14. I heard it is impossible for cell phones to work on planes moving at 500mph and at 30000 Feet.
It isn't. Most of the calls were made via Airphone anyway.
15. The "hijackers" said the wrong islamic message when approaching death.
They didn't. You got this little incorrect "factoid" from Jim Fetzer.
16. Survivors and Eye witnesses Reporting seeing, hearing explosions.
It'd be odd not to see or hear explosions in a fire, especially one of the magnitude of the one in the towers.
17. Thermite was found at the scene.
No it wasn't.
19. Science Says Buildings Collasping CAN NOT fall at the speed of gravity unless Dynimite.
There's no such thing as the speed of gravity. Anyhow, the buildings did not collapse at free-fall.
20. In the New American Century Dick Cheney Said We need a new Pearl Harbor.
The entire document outlines what to do WITHOUT a "new Pearl Harbor". It also talks about not getting involved in a land war in the Middle East.
22. How can a 757 That is 129' Wide Make a 16' Hole?
The 16 foot hole is inside the Pentagon. The outside hole is much larger.
23. Between Both Engines on Flight 77 Or a 757, Its combined weight is 10-12 Tons. It is made of Steel And Titnium. Its melting Point is around 2600F. The Fire didnt get anywhre near that tempurature at the Pentagon. Yet No Engines Were Found.
Parts of engines were found, that's how we know the plane actually crashed there.
Hitler Once Said, The Bigger the Lie, The easier it is Believed.
After my destruction of your points, it seems you're the most Hitlerian person here.
The Hijackers Were Alive! They were caught by video survallce! And Thermite was FOUND!
Those 200 people with the same name is a lie!
The video Survallce caught at least 4 of them alive! They is confirmed! I have to look into the other 5
The Hijackers Were Alive! They were caught by video survallce! And Thermite was FOUND!
Wrong, wrong, and wrong.
Those 200 people with the same name is a lie!
Uh in the UK alone there are 140 people with my name.
Those 200 people with the same name is a lie!
Uh in the UK alone there are 140 people with my name.
I am sure there are...I believe that. What I am saying is Skeptic website are saying Truthers have misinformation saying well they found somebody with the same name, so they are thinking they are alive, THIS IS A LIE.
It is not a lie that 4 hijackers were caught by survallce cameras after 9/11 in the middle east.
The BBC Was not lying and that was proven true.
Im sure the hijackers were taking care of by now.
The BBC Was not lying and that was proven true.
They weren't lying, they were mistaken.
They were mistaken? LOL
If they were mistaken they would have removed the article online and wrote another article applogizing for there errors.
They would also appologize for survallence cameras for lying as well. HAHAHA
Wake up before its too late.
Why dont you sleptics (Proberbly all teens) Go watch 9/11 The greatest Lie ever sold, These guys couldnt even drive a car..And go watch terrorstorm
Videos #2 and #7
4 Hijackers caught alive by survallence:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1559151.stm
2 Videos I recommend:
9/11 The Greatest Lie ever sold: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6952102263921897950&q=9%2F11+THE+GREATEST+LIE+EVER+SOLD&hl=en
TerrorStorm: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=786048453686176230&hl=en
P.S. The germans did not want to believe Hitler Burned the reichstag and as a result WW2 Started.
History is repeating itself. :(
THAT'S THE SAME GODDAMN ARTICLE I MENTIONED BEFORE.
Check the date on it, dumbass.
History is repeating itself. :(
Nope! It's not! So sorry Charlie, try again.
They want World Government as well as several other things. I think in order to achieve this, They need to bankrupt all "powerful" USA.
Check this out:
For the New World Order to create a one world government, they must control a central bank, eliminate the Constitution, end Christian values, disarm America, and control the media. The Council on Foreign Relations has openly said they will take us over in favor of a one world government. The American people must be warned or we may lose our freedom forever. If we do not demand our rights and uphold the Constitution, the CFR and bankers will continue their march toward socialism. If we allow them to continue, they will abolish our rights and put an end to our present government. Freedom isn't free
Taken for www.jesus-is-savior.com
They also want to accomplish the following, and most of it has already been accomplished:
1. Patriot act
2. Patriot act 2
3. Eliminate the Consitution
4. Bring forth the NWO
5. Bankrupt the USA to bring forth a NWO
6. Scare americans to give up there right in exchange for "security" when you will just get tyranny and a police state.
7. Justify an Iraq & Afganistan War.. With Iraq, Iran, and Afganistan in control ..US Should control all of the Middle East with just those 3 countries.....oh my i hope i dont disppear...
8. Bring forth a Real ID Act, which was passed on 5-11-05, and then the "mark of the beast"
9. To Pretty Much Allow Bush to do anything He wants.
That is why in the PNAC Documents, Cheney said..We need a new Pearl Harbor.
Also, Some of you said they cant even handle a hurricane how can they do 9.11?
The answer is..The had help from criminal ellimates from the U.S. Military....I think...I cant say i am 100% possitive b/c i am not in the military or the government.
But this makes more sense then the offical story..Which 90% believes it to be covere up..
36% Believe it to be an inside job.
Do you ever notice that the truth movement is exploding? Do you notice people like alex jones and dylan avery go public with there work?
Whats the name and pic of this guy, Whats the names and pics of ur so call lying debunkers??
They hide..Do you know why? When the truth comes out 100% The entire would will hate them and be fulled with anger b.c people like yourselves have been lied to for years. While right now Alex Jones and Dylan Avery and other sites are skyrocketings year after year. They will be as big as George Washington.
Oh Christ, Sleepy is a Christian fundamentalist.
I'm gonna let you in on something - Revelations was a political attack on Rome written by John of Patmos, it was not a prophecy of things to come.
While right now Alex Jones and Dylan Avery and other sites are skyrocketings year after year. They will be as big as George Washington.
You're obviously mentally deranged, but that still disgusts me. Dylan Avery and Alex Jones are the equivalent of McCarthy, not Washington.
Sleepy, what is Jeff Rense's real name? What does he look like without that silly wig?
I have been on several radio shows where my real name has been given out, unlike "Killtown" or "Sleepy2k21".
Hey Pat, Why dont you talk about the thermite used to cut the pillars of the WTC?? What about the melten metal found at ground zero?
Do you work/support the globalists?
Do you work for the government?
Thermate, you mean? Molten, you mean?
Yeah, I support dem Globalists. My paycheck has an all-seeing eye atop a pyramid. I'm not quite at the level of getting into the Bohemian Grove, but I can get 50-yard-line seats for the Oakland Raiders by snapping my fingers. Oh, and I know who's going to win the World Series; put your money on Detroit.
HAHAHA...
Okay a few things. First thank you for not banning me i excepted to get banned or and my posts removed.
But I have a request, You are so sure 9.11 WAS NOT an inside job, Let me post a main topic on the blog with me being the author.
Also Jimmy Walter will give anybody 100k to anybody who can prove the towers came down the govt said..
Why arent you all marching to him with your evidence just waiting to pick up that big fat check??
Come to the Loose change forum and intoduce yourself, we would love to debate you, i just dont want to now, Im off to bed.
doherty - what was your name on JREF, I have been in bed until now, so i will go check on how people treated you. Of course, if you wnet in there making gradnious claims, they will call you on it and expect you to be able to prove it wirh SOLID evidence.
Sleepy - I am not sure how old you are, so if you are a teenage, than I apologize for what I am about to say, in the sense that I realize the amount of naivety most teens have.
I am a 35y health professional, so in case you think we are all teens in here, I would say the number of "teens" that post on this blog is about 1%.
The evidence, what little of it you have brought in here, is old, and has been debunked long ago. All of those hijackers that were "supposedly" found alive shortly after 9/11, were all mistaken identities. The BBC article was based on an arab news paper article. The author of that article when questioned by an independent german news agency, told them he only actually spoke directly to one of the men, and when he was shown the photo of the man the FBi was looking for, he said that it was not the guy he spoke to.
Operation Northwoods - a PROPOSED scenario, that never came to be, where they would fake terrorist attacks, involving no friendly casualties, in order to further the govt agenda. Notice (1) never happened (the plane was nixed by Kennedy) and (2) involved no taking of human life (faking it).
Alex Jones says he predicted the attack, but when you look at the tape in which he claims to have done so, his words are vague. Did he predict that ON SEPTEMBER 11th TWO PLANES WOULD FLY INTO THE WTCs and ANOTHER INTO THE PENTAGON? or did he predict that there would be a terrorist attack on US SOIL soon, and the govt would say it was OBL who did it?
With regards to the steel/collape issue. Steel only has to weaken to the point of not being able to bear the load above it (18-30 storeys of building in these cases). The cause of the WTC 1&2 Collapses, as determined by hundreds of structural engineers (not videos) was the following (1) severing of exterior and interior columns by the planes on impact, (2) removal of the steels fireproofing by the impacts, (3) weakening of the remaining steel, which now had an increase load upon it due to the severing of some columns via fires that were INITIATED by the jet fuel, and maintained and superheated by the contents of the buildings such as carpet, plastics, furniture, etc...
That increase in "put" options was true, going from an average of 1000 to 4000, but did you know that two other times that year, the "put options" rose by 800% (1000 to 8000), so why didnt we have terrorist attacks on those dates?
Yes FBI confescated tapes. It was a crime against the nation, they would confescate any evidence that might possibly help them with the details of the crime.
Your claims are so old, I am actually bored answering them for you. You really should do some more research or you will get burned.
For instance, the whole "They took away the evidence too quickly"...ummm no they didnt. NIST and FEMA were able to get sufficient samples for evidence. The majority of the debris from the collapses was not sent over seas until much later. Most of it was MOVED to nearby landfills, where investigators had FULL ACCESS to it for weeks and weeks.
when the towers come down, you do not see "bombs" going off in the building. The "squibs" you guys claim occur, are actually debris and smoke sent out through breaking glass as a result of the pressure of the building collapsing. In a demolition, squibs, which are from preset charges, go off in a linear sequence, not randomly here and there, as is the case with what you are referring to...have you even researched Controlled Demolition.
wrt to Larrys comments. the "it" he is reffering to is the "mission" or "contingent" of firefighters that were not in the building, but had formed a perimeter close to the building. To prevent further loss of life, Silverstein ADVISED the FIRECOMMANDER to pull it (the mission/contingent). A Firecommander can not order a building to be brought down, so why would Silverstein tell him to do so?
Actually, the amount of insurance money he ACTUALLY collected, was insufficient to rebuild, and he has invested his own money, seperate from the insurance money, in order to do so.
The gun thing I am not aware of, but it would seem odd, given that 9/11 was the incident that allowed them to now have guns. I would say ask a US Pilot.
For your question about the plane, is Charlie Sheen an airline pilot. There are lots of pilots who have openly said that that manuever could have been done by the hijakcers, given the licences they had to fly.
Cell Phone issue. (1) The Moussaoui trial data indicates that all but a few of those calls were made on the planes Airfones, which are designed to work at high speeds and cruising altitude. Beyond that, while they do not work as well at high speeds and altititudes they do work. One of the few calls made from a cellphone, made by a man in the washroom, did so when the plane was only at 5,000 feet.
With regards to what they were suppose to say, who knows why they didn't. They were scared, they were about to die, they were young, and in the heat of the moment before their death maybe they forgot. Comeon, this is weak JIM FETZER crap...stop watching those stupid videos.
Explosions, here we go again. When a building is about to collapse, and has been struck by a jet airline, with 8-10 floors on fire, and with the building full of electrical transformers, aeresol cans, would you not expect explosions?
Thermite - BS. Steven Jones found traces of Sulfur, Barium, and other innocent chemicals that could have been part of the contents of the building. HE HAS NO PROOF OF THERMITE! end of story.
The janitor you speak of is a Consipracy theorist who has an agenda.
wrt to time of collapses (1) gravity is an acceleration, not a speed. "Science" as you have so generically called it, says that the only way an object can Free Fall, is in a frictionless vacuum. The buildings did NOT FALL in FREE FALL. They fell in NEAR FREE FALL TIME (there is no such thing as free fall speed, it is a misnomer). the reason they fell at close to Free Fall Time, is that the remainder of the building offered little resistance to the enormous kinetic energy imposed on it by the falling floors above it. Read NIST (if you dare, it contains alot of that "science" you refer to).
The PNAC document quote is taken out of context. If you read the whole document, or even a few pages before the quote (I know, you truthers dont like to read), you will see that they were referring to the creation and promotion of new intellegent weapons, when they said they needed a "new pearl harbour" to get it going. They were not referring to a nasty 3 year long bogged down war in iraq with the same old weapons.
the amount of money you quote for Clinto, includes the amount spent on court cases as well. You add the cost of court, that it would take to procecute all 19 Hijackers, were they still alive, and the number would be a lot more than 15 Million.
I am tired now, and the rest of your arguments could be debunked by your pet dog, so I will leave them...someone else wanna help this preschooler out.
TAM
Come to the Loose change forum and intoduce yourself, we would love to debate you, i just dont want to now, Im off to bed.
The Loose Change forum bans everyone who dares be skeptical about the nonsense in Loose Change, or who dares express doubt about 911 being an inside job. It is a zone of petty tyrany and several of its members use banning as a debate tactic. Many folks here have already been to LCF, and have been banned by the children there.
By comparison, the number of 'troothers' banned at the JREF forum is much lower, and they simply could not follow the clearly written rules of the forum.
i went to the jref forums just now and it is exactly what i suspected.
Loads of faceless trolls pretending to be structural engineers ganging up on one truther and calling them a thick kid with no qualifications.
Please name the persons on JREF who claim to be SE's.
total punks.
You're real brave from over here
Last month, fire experts told Congress that about 80% of the steel was scrapped without being examined because investigators did not have the authority to preserve the wreckage.
""There has been some concern expressed by others that the work of the team has been hampered because debris was removed from the site and has subsequently been processed for recycling. This is not the case. The team has had full access to the scrap yards and to the site and has been able to obtain numerous samples. At this point there is no indication that having access to each piece of steel from the World Trade Center would make a significant difference to understanding the performance of the structures"."
www.house.gov/science/hearings/full02/mar06/corley.htm
You might also wish to read assertion 6 of implosionworld's article on the WTC claims.
Its more mythmaking by troothers.
dont mean the type of debate where its me against 20 faceless trolls i mean me against that person in person or over a telephone, preferably on a radio show.
There may be some folks on the JREF forum who would be hppy to debate you. Why don't you go there and ask
Radio debates don't really prove very much, especially in light of the fact that 'troothers' use the same tactics that Creationists use (i.e. put out a dozen assertions and pump out a dozen more while you debunk the first one) it really is rarely a good indicator.
Its not really a suprise you want a debate where reply time is limited. You get you ass kicked here, you'll cloy for any advantage you can get.
if you want a debate, all you have to do is come over to JREF, state you want a one on one debate with someone, and the mods will set up a thread, or you can yourself, and we will respectfully not post in the thread, just you and the person you are debating...try it.
Personally I have no desire to talk to you, or be on TV, so why should I do that.
I personally do not know enough of the science to debate a science issue with you. I could quote many articles written by scientists, but I doubt you would accept that. There are a few aeronautic engineers over there, and a few mechanical engineers and architects over there who debate with you...but I doubt you'll go. Your reason for asking for a debate is clearly so you can inflate your already overblown ego...trust me, you wont get your ego inflated over at JREF.
TAM
So now, go back to your pretty little blog and post that I am "afraid" to debate you. have a couple of chuckles, given the number of people posting there on your side, it will be just a couple.
TAM
LOL why do these clown keep posting the same debunked crap and never give evidence to back up their claims?
There was a push to get the mess cleaned up as fast as possible now they whaks bitch about the clean up being too fast. They just want it both ways
And the Einstein mocks me by quoting me mocking his idiocy?
God, you're fucking retarded.
ignore him...he is a troll who is merely trying to collect tidbits to make you look "bad" on his blog. He has no interest in debating issues.
TAM
ignore him...he is a troll who is merely trying to collect tidbits to make you look "bad" on his blog. He has no interest in debating issues.
On another forum someone sigged me as saying "That makes about as much sense as a solar-powered flashlight" to 9/11 deniers, and one of the deniers actually said "a solar powered flashlight would be stupid".
pd-
this is the last response I'm giving you until you can provide me some affirmative evidence that the U.S. government was complicit in 9/11.
Everything you've posted so far attempts to prove airplanes weren't responsible for the attacks. It's all been thouroughly refuted, but that's irrelevent.
I want to see some evidence that it was explosives.
Imagine you're a criminal prosecutor. You can either charge the U.S. government for the 9/11 attacks, Al-Qaeda for the attacks, or both. You can't just present evidence that Al-Qaeda didn't do it at trial, you have to present evidence that the U.S. Government did.
Who do you have enough evidence to convict? What evidence will you present? Who are your witnesses (better make sure they're reliable, or the defense will shred their testimony)?
It's the trial of the century. Let's hear your case.
shawn u stated that the collapse of the towers was comparable to a game of jenga, its fact, check my blog
The jenga example was a very simplistic but valid analogy. After all, you are the one that repeatedly ignores the the fact that fully loaded airliners crashed into the WTC. If you are too stupid to see even that then nobody on this blog can help you.
And for the functionally illiterate, here is the definition of analogy.
Sleepy2K21, send me your post at the email addy shown on the blog. Two requests:
1. Don't write a book; keep it reasonably short--1000 words or less.
2. Don't use profanity.
by the way lads, im coming to ground zero on 11 september 2007 and im gonna make sure i (legally and peacefully) do all the things that piss mark roberts of, u know the crap he put on his why we fight list
Mark Roberts has already beaten you given that you have failed utterly to prove anything wrong with his comments. you've been reduced to whining about attacks (which you happily make, being a full-blow hypocrite) and producing the same old debunked stuff as 'evidence'.
*sigh*
Since the Janga idiot seems to be too thick to understand the analogy, I'll explain.
When you remove enough pieces of the support structure, any building will collapse. Controlled demolition works in a similar fashion. In a typical controlled demo, explosives are only placed on the lower storied of a building. If you want to collapse a 6 story building, and aren't too worried about minimizing the size of the resultant wreckage, you'd place explosives on the support columns of the first 2 floors. Once those supports are removed, the momentum of the falling building does the rest.
The aircraft impacts on 9/11 performed a similar function to the explosive used in controlled demolition. They severed a large number of support columns of the outer tube of the buildings. This is the equivalent, in the Janga analogy, of removing all the pieces from one side of your structure. The remaining supports took up the slack, supporting more weight than they normally would. The resultant fires heated those columns, causing them to weaken. This is once again the equivalent of removing more pieces from your janga game. Eventually, once the strength of the remaining columns became too low to support the mass of the rest of the building, the columns buckled and sheared away from the floors, initiating the collapse. And, much like your janga building, there was no stopping it from that point on. It takes a total lack of logic and a complete misunderstanding of structural engineering to believe that the top 40 or so floors could have somehow fallen between 2 and 10 meters, and then magically stopped.
The only way in which the janga analogy fails is that it is a solid mass, meaning the individual blocks can never buckle or shear. Instead the structure simply becomes unstable and collapses sideways. However, it's definitely helpful for laymen trying to envision the removal of pieces of the structure, and the resultant effect. When you remove enough of the support, one way or another the building is coming down.
certainly it is a lot more relivant, and true to the attacks, than the "keebler elf - the WTCs were like trees" theory.
TAM
I actually did stomach more than 15 minutes of this crap.
How these fuckwadded whackjobs continue to get away with their ridiculous conspiracy theories is beyond me.
well the tree theory holds more substance than the jenga theory.
This just shows how clueless you are.
judy wood upsets u lads cos shes an engineer and ur not
She's been studying teeth for her entire career. Anything she produced was debunkable by even HS physics.
The 911 commision denies these columns exist, wonder why
And where did they say that?
Oh let me guess, you are reading yoo much into the 'hollow core' comment like your fellow idiots.
You're a fan of the tree analogy??? And you claim to have a physics degree??? Hah! Listen, if you're not even going to make an effort, don't go play with the big boys. Go home.
the jenga analogy is ridiculous, last i knew jenga games dont have 47 huge core columns embedded in bedrock and interlocked with lateral beams.
so that analogy is flawed (since it was to mock you and show the collapse in the most simplistic terms - more weight supports by less structure = collapse), but Judy's tree analogy isn't? It ignores far more than mine - least of all the fact that the towers couldn't fall sideways as they were 95 percent air.
telescope will u please respond to to the two quotes i posted about the steel being shipped off, or is that a little hard for u?
Your quotes were not in this post and I answered them in any case. Get a grip and pay attention.
Here's the short version of my answer: Those who needed to examine the steel were more than able to do so.
Your quotes were not in this post and I answered them in any case.
Ooops. My error, it was. In any case, the reply is directly beneath you quotes.
There was nothing hard about that.
Just thinking here...I just watched the Alex Jones video where he "predicts" the attack...
So, do we have any independent verificaiton of this broadcast? I mean, does anyone have on tape the actual broadcast where he says this from back in 2001?
All I've seen is Alex Jones quoting himself from his own tape.
I am more astonished that these fools actually believe what they post. They were bitching about the dangers of all the debris at ground O now they claim the rubble was hauled away fast as part of the cover up LOL What did it take 6-8 mos. to haul it away and it was at a debris site for a long time. Now they make all these stupid claims and never provide a shread of proof to back up what they say. They are blinded by their 20/20 hindsight.
Who better to prove basically every structural engineer on the planet wrong than a dipshit, a dipshit, and a dipshit, none of whom are structural engineers.
All together this shows that the "scholars" represent a tiny fraction of one percent of practicing US scholars, and an even smaller percentage of those in relevant fields. In fact, if you peruse their "published" works, you will find that the entire credibility of the groups claims in their most prominent area, the collapse of the World Trade Center buildings, comes down to the work of two "experts"; physicist Steven Jones of BYU, and mechanical engineer Judy Woods of Clemson but never say that her expertise is in Dentistry.
Given that they are dealing with the mechanics of building collapse, one would imagine that having an "expert" in civil or structural engineering would be more relevant, but in fact, out of the 139,000 members of the American Society of Civil Engineers, the most prominent civil engineering organization in the country, not a single member has publicly joined the "Scholars" or endorsed their findings.
"telescope will u please respond to to the two quotes i posted about the steel being shipped off, or is that a little hard for u?"
Well, Pdoh, since you weren't there, and telescope wasn't there, and I wasn't there at GZ cleaning up the mess, why don't you read the implosionworld paper. I believe it is assertion #6. It is fair, impartial, explanation of what really went on during the cleanup, and I would take their word for it because they were there documenting every bit of what happened and you and me weren't. And neither were Alex Jones and Dylan Avery.
what do you guys think of Fintan Dunne as a matter of interest?
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