Another Fish in the Barrel
Here's another one of those JREF threads where a Denier shows up convinced he's going to dazzle us all with his brilliant demonstration that WTC 7 was brought down by controlled demolition. Get this cocky start:
I KNOW there has been a tremendous debate over the subject of 9/11, and from the few threads I have read it looks like most believe the, "Official Story." Well, here's what I can assure you. If you engage me in this debate, than you will NOT leave this thread without KNOWING that 9/11 was an inside job and brought down by controlled demolitions.
So if we could...I would like to pose a series of simple questions...and all I want for everyone to do is simply respond to the question at hand. If everyone can follow these simple guidelines, than it shouldn't take too long before you will have to accept the fact that the buildings collapsed because of explosives and NOT a fire that melted steel wherein initiating an improbable pancake collapse.
Question 1: Is it possible to prove whether or not (irrefutably) that in the history of the world...a steel-structured building has collapsed as a direct result of a fire? I know we've all heard that this has never happened before 9/11, but is it possible to prove that statement true or false - without a shadow of doubt? And if we can prove whether or not that statement is true, than please give your answer - yay or nay, and present your evidence.
Well, of course he gets in trouble right off the bat, because he thinks that because he's seen Dylan's movie that no steel structured-building has collapsed because of fire in the history of the world. Of course, that's a bunch of nonsense; there's the ESP toilet paper plant, the Kader Toy Factory fire, McCormick Place in Chicago.
Well, so with his best laid plans ganging hard agley, he goes through the typical Denier repertoire, from "Pull it is a term used in controlled demolition" to "the buildings fell at free-fall or faster speed" to "Osama's left handed and yet he eats with his right hand", all the while exclaming at the extraordinary obtuseness he's experiencing at the hands of the JREF crew.
posted by Pat @ 10:14 PM
19 comments
19 Comments:
OK, only recently have I been hearing the claim of "free-fall or faster". How do they even explain that?
Oh, that's a very old claim. You know how things go in CT land.
1) They make a dumb claim
2) They get debunked
3) They whine, complain, yell, and accuse you of being a shill
3) They forget about ever making the claim, and accuse you of attacking a strawman
4) They move on to some other ludicrous theory
5) 5 months later, they resurrect the original silly claim, and the cycle starts all over again.
Yep, you really got us on the run with evidence like that TP Factory Collapse due to fire
Major fire at toilet paper plant
"So if we could...I would like to pose a series of simple questions...and all I want for everyone to do is simply respond to the question at hand."
This is the common modus operandi of 9/11 Deniers, to be the one to "ask questions" rather than give answers. I've encountered that about 90% of the time in engaging 9/11 Deniers and I turn it right back on them: "I am not interested in your meaningless questions. I want you evidence [for instance] that WTC 7 was brought down by explosives."
Most 9/11 Deniers think it is audacious to have to provide evidence and answer questions themselves.
From BG's article:
A spokesman for the fire service said the blaze had resulted in a black smoke cloud which could be seen for miles.
But...but..but...I thought black smoke meant the fire was oxygen starved?!?!?!
He added: "Intense heat buckled the steel girders holding the roof."
But...but...but....FIRE DOESN'T MELT STEEL!
DISINFIO-CIA-SHILL!
What I want to know is, why the hell is the CIA demolishing toilet paper factories in the UK....
Alex, I'd just add:
6) They exaggerate the claim to make it better. (See Dylan's claim that the cable spools were "untouched", or the "faster than freefall speed" claims).
What I want to know is, why the hell is the CIA demolishing toilet paper factories in the UK....
Ahaha, classic.
Oh God I just remembered their reaction to the Lidle crash just because his passport survived :\
It's interesting to note that, even if the buildings were to magically fall at a speed that was marginally faster than free fall, it'd be impossible to tell. For instance, if earths gravity had been 20% stronger in that particular location, the collapse time would only have been about 9% shorter, for a difference of about 0.8 seconds. If the CTers think they can achieve that sort of accuracy from a youtube video, they're sadly mistaken.
Jason did the research.
Jason knows this stuff.
Jason sends time researching things like the other countries that Germany invaded.
Once in a while the jedi knights get into Jasons mind.
That or when a girl talks to him.
I still can't wrap my head around the whole idea about being faster then freefall. It is physically impossible to do so under the circumstances that happened at the WTC. Even in controlled demolitions situations, they do not make buildings go faster then free fall.
There were people, at least on the JREF and perhaps elsewhere, who posited in all apparent sincerity that explosions within the towers created a vacuum which "sucked" the towers down faster than they'd have fallen with gravity as the only accelerating force.
These days, of course, the traitors are increasingly careful to be as vague as possible or to put forward untestable hypotheses (like Space Beams) so as not to be so easily debunked.
You can't fall faster than free-fall.
I'm left handed, occasionally I switch hands for conveinence. Just because you're left or right handed doesn't mean your other hand slowly rots and shrivels into a useless stump.
And you aren't even Muslim, where using your left hand to eat is taboo.
I have always found that rather stupid, especially considering Kore Rowe says he served in both Iraq and Afghanistan. I guess he slept during those cultural awareness briefings.
Dylan Avery and the others who think this is evidence of "fake Osama" are simply uneducated cretins and ignorant of other cultures or the world they live in.
Yes, and it's quite easy to peddle as most people in Europe and America are ignorant of Islamic culture. I have no idea why, as it's usually a good idea to study the culture of your enemy - but go figure.
This guy was a real puzzle...for about 2 posts. We cannot confirm it, but he is highly suspected to be the latest sock puppet installment of Pdhoerty76. He (28th Kingdom) is still over there, but has dropped the thread mentioned here, now finding a debate over in the "fire and steel" thread to be more to his taste. His post in that thread are leaking a little more PD than the original one did.
TAM
Over here I see that PD goes by the another two letter moniker......bg.
NAh, I don't think BG is PD'oh.
PD is a total troll, BG is an unmedicated paranoid schizoprhenic.
They really are two different breeds of nutters.
One Example DEBUNKED
McCormick.
The first fact that should be noted in regard to any such comparison is that the McCormick Place incident was not a total building collapse -- it was only a roof collapse. Much less was it the total collapse of a high-rise building. Any comparison of it to the Twin Towers is limited to the Towers' floor diaphragms. FEMA blamed the heat-induced failure of the Towers' floor diaphragms, but failed to provide a convincing explanation of how floor failures could have led to total building collapse. Moreover, the alleged failure of the Towers floor trusses has lost relevance with NIST's endorsing the column failure theory to the exclusion of the truss failure theory.
Furthermore, the comparisons of the roof trusses of McCormick Place to the floor trusses of the Twin Towers is limited by the following facts:
The floor trusses were insulated, unlike the roof trusses.
The floor trusses spanned at most 60 feet, apparently much shorter than the roof trusses.
The floor trusses had to support the floor loads of the concrete slabs and office furniture, whereas the roof trusses only had to support snow loading.
911research.com
Wow, you guys really seem to be serious here. I don't see the maker of zeitgeist throwing mud at others, but you guys here - the guys that claim to have a more intellectual approach to things - can't seem to comment without disrespect and insulting others. Now, what does that tell me?
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