Who is Leo Wanta?
I wrote on another Illuminati/global elite conspiracy being promoted by a man named Leo Wanta, who claims they stole $27.5 trillion dollars from US taxpayers, which he is the rightful caretaker of. To no surprise it is being pushed unquestionably by many of the same people who are pushing the 9/11 theories (including my man Karl Schwartz). Since it is a really long post, and only tangentially connected to 9/11, I posted it over at my much neglected Chief Brief blog, but I thought some of you might be interested.
posted by James B. @ 1:23 PM
62 comments
62 Comments:
Unbelievable, James!
You and I can fully agree that this is crap. Although I have no way to know for sure, my experience has been that the Karl S., tomflocco.com, cloakanddagger.de, stewwebb.com swamp seems to have been using the Wanta story to distract for quite a while.
Why does it have to be "to distract"? Why is it in your world people cannot be stupid and dishonest for their own sake, it has to be part of some wider conspiracy?
Most of the weird stuff that is easily found on the internet is there for one of two reasons:
1) It's really true.
2) It's a ploy to discredit what is true by flooding the pipe. This is often called disinfo.
You'll just have to trust me until you do more research.
Let me provide what I think is a prime example (of a so-called CIA plant):
Tralla, Coco
More... Speculation on Diversionary Agents
bg I think you're giving the majority of people in this country ENTIRELY too much credit.
I'm with chf, option three makes a lot more sense.
Case in point: People of the Flat Earth society. Does that fall into one of your categories, or option 3?
Once again my favorite saying comes to mind.
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity"
I haven't seen the website for the flag earth society. Where is that?
I'm not good at posting links, apologies:
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/
It's literally
the flat earth society dot org.
Enjoy!
DISCLAIMER: That was a random example. I am in NO way affiliated with those nutjobs. Thank you.
yatesey,
This is a parody website, along the lines of The Onion
Here's the other reason I say to distract with respect to Wanta.
William J. Clinton really has been mixed up in some weird happening, including deaths. His pardon before leaving office of Marc Rich seemed to be especially brazen.
My contention is that the Wanta story was used to distract from malfeasance surrounding Clinton way before 9/11.
Look how the Wanta story is woven into this sick website story:
DOES THIS TIE IN WITH U.S.T. RUSSELL HERMAN'S MURDER, VINCE FOSTERS MURDER, BUSH,BAKER,BRADY,GREENSPAN, CLINTON, NETANYAHU, RABIN ETALS?
Look at the design of this source of the above story website created to completely distract people from reality.
I contend that the people behind this website are crazy like a fox.
FIXED LINK
I accept that many alternative theories about 9/11 sound crazy.
The truth about 9/11:
1) The govt. story varies so much from reality that many people can't handle that the govt. would tell such a big lie.
2) There are plants and planted stories to make "9/11 Conspiracy Theorists" look crazy.
3) Having web sites which link 9/11 alternative theories with other topics such as Lizard people also is a calculated technique to discredit.
Wow, BG's wrong again.
BG, most of the weird stuff that is easily found on the internet is there for three reasons:
Most people are -
1. Idiots.
2. Gullible.
3. Idiots.
2) It's a ploy to discredit what is true by flooding the pipe. This is often called disinfo.
There is NO disinformation. All of these whacky theories are what true believers spout.
Shawn,
I realize there are crazies. However, the majority of the crazy stuff at internet web sites is there for:
1. Selling a Product or Getting Traffic to Sell Advertising
2. Selling a Bogus Story or Distracting from a True Picture of the World that isn't conducive to continuing to fleece the masses.
To some degree, prisonplanet.com, and inforwars.com, rbn and gcn are based on the above models.
bg-
Thanks, I was actually convinced it was real, less because of naivete(although I admit I was) and more because I don't put it past anyone to actually believe in it.
They have a sizeable entry in Wikipedia.
I still say it's a bit foolish to think that there aren't hundreds of thousands if not millions of people who will post anyting that pops into their heads.
Another suspect Disinfo Website: National Security Whistleblowers Coalition
Thank you James B! It's all clear to me now.
Yes, I think you are right, people can be stupid or delusional for their own sake, and not as disinformation. But BG is also right - a lot of crap is spread out there as disinformation.
BG:
I have to strongly disagree with you here. You must accept that there are some things on line, that are rediculous, simply because the people who post them are either (a) insane, (b) extremely Naive, or (c) extremely stupid.
I agree, in alot of fields, there are some people who may be posting certain things to make less rediculous claims in the same field look more bogus, but it is not as simple as...
1. disinfo
2. true
and no other choices.
TAM
I'll like someone here make sense out of this video about Norman Mineta
BG, get real. Who is this distracting from? The only people who believe in the first place are conspiracy theory idiots anyway. Face it, you guys will believe anything. You don't see this crap showing up on the editorial page of the Wall Street Journal.
James,
I know I'm going a lot of different directions in response to your post.
I don't have any real hunches about the Wanta stories (other than a skeptical attitude), so it leaves me to improvise.
Which leads me to:
The Lexington Comair Crash, Part 24: Return of the Bluegrass Conspiracy – The Prince, THE FOURTH PASSENGER & the Mockingbird (cont'd)
Does anybody think Alex Constantine is on the up and up?
James,
It occurred to me that I should say I don't think this blog is a major Pentagon project, or that you and Pat are major operatives.
My earlier questions did not mean to imply that.
I think it's completely understandable that the naked unsubstantiated claims made in Loose Change could infuriate individuals enough to combat the alleged "lies" of Loose Change.
On the other hand, the people behind the "Shire Network", (was it out of Australia?), that outfit was more scary than Limbaugh and Hannity put together.
Dude, enough of the spamming. You post more links on more different topics here than Pat and I do. I swear you have ADD.
William J. Clinton really has been mixed up in some weird happening, including deaths.
I've known a handful of people who have died. Most of them from high school and people I never really liked. I can safely bet that everyone here is in the same situation. Clinton just happens to be a pretty high-profile guy and, as such, has "connections" to many more people. What about this is weird?
Who is this distracting from? The only people who believe in the first place are conspiracy theory idiots anyway.
Well, we all know the conspiracy community isn't exactly enamored with intellect. "Ooo, shiny!"
James B. said...
Dude, enough of the spamming. You post more links on more different topics here than Pat and I do. I swear you have ADD.
I thought I was adding valuable content links.
Alrighty, come over to my blog for more.
Here is what I have discovered about "Leo Wanta":
There is some schmuck named Tom Flocco, who is a teacher in Pennsylavnia. He has a site, tomflocco.com, which is, without doubt, one of the funniest on the internet - he claimed that President Bush, Vice President Cheney, and others, had been indicted by special counsel Patrick Fitzgerald. What happened to this "indictment" is anyone's guess - maybe Tom Flocco made it up!
Anyway, the Floccster claims that "Leo Wanta" is a "US Ambassador to Somalia" who allegedly told VP Cheney that "large amounts of money were moved to the Philippines" from the US after the 9/11 attacks.
See the story here: http://tomflocco.com/fs/2ndMemoToCheney.htm
So, all we need do is check on just who "Leo Wanta" is.
For one, he is not a "former US Ambassador to Somalia." How do I know? Check out the US State Department's site on the names of all US Ambassadors:
Start here:
http://www.state.gov/www/about_state/history/chief.html
On the left, go to "Somalia" and read the names of all of the US Ambassadors to that country. There is no "Leo Wanta"! Even the names of the Chargé d'Affaires do not include "Leo Wanta"!
So, who is "Leo Wanta"? Probably just another fictitious lunatic made up by Tom Flocco. Or, he is some lowlife liberal jerkoff who made up that he is a former Ambassador.
I've developed a theory about all this Leo Wanta nonsense.
Practically every article about him references something called International Currency Review, which promises all the latest financial news, and is available for the friendly low price of $525 a year, from a website that also publishes things like Soviet Analyst (yes, even in 2006) and The New European Collective. It's all paranoid conspiracy bullshit of the highest order.
In other words, the guy writing all these Leo Wanta stories is really just a self-published fiction author with a very high price tag. And he's got quite a modus operandi.
First, he writes a bunch of press releases about his main character, Leo Wanta, who's always trying to bring home that $27 trillion but never quite succeeds. He's sort of the Natty Bumppo of secret European banks.
Then, the author sends press releases about Leo Wanta to braindead conspiracy websites, who run them and talk about them as if they were actual news stories. 3. Profit!
This may be the greatest paperback marketing plan ever. I almost admire the guy who's doing it.
Tom Flocco is the superstar investigative reporter who broke the story about Barbara Olson being discovered alive in Europe.
He just missed out on his richly-deserved Pulitzer when it turned out that she was still quite dead--killed when the plane she was on was crashed into the Pentagon by jihadist hijackers.
William J. Clinton really has been mixed up in some weird happening, including deaths.
I am certainly no fan of Clinton, but I dislike misinformation even more.
The Clinton body count
I didn't see that one. Wanta previously said he was the Somalian ambassador to both Canada and Switzerland (hell of a commute).
Tom Flocco is great, he was the one who reported that Barbara Olson was arrested on the Austrian-Polish border with a stash of counterfeit Italian lira.
trite, I was interested in the International Currency Review and how it is connected. I checked and they actually carry it at the library at my B-school. Monday I will have to check it out.
Anyway, the Floccster claims that "Leo Wanta" is a "US Ambassador to Somalia"
Leo Wanta is not an ambassador to Somalia, he claims to be an ambassador FROM Somalia to other countries, typically Switzerland. Since Somalia hasn't had much of a government the last 15 years or so, there's hardly anyone to say he isn't. Though a white guy from Wisconsin would be an odd choice to represent Somalian interests.
I hate to cite Sander Hicks, but he's got a collection of news articles about Leo Wanta's Wisconsin court dealings. Apparently our buddy Leo is a bit of a financial scammer, doesn't like to pay his state taxes, and has seen the inside of a mental hospital at least once.
trite, I was interested in the International Currency Review and how it is connected. I checked and they actually carry it at the library at my B-school. Monday I will have to check it out.
It does look like a real, high-end financial journal. But it keeps some incredibly kooky editorial company. Would you pay $500 a year for financial news from the same outfit that's reporting on the "continuing Soviet Leninist World Revolution deception strategy"? Apparently the USSR just wants us to think they've broken up.
Maybe this used to be a legitimate journal that got taken over by these conspiracy publishers somehow? Let me know what you find out.
Oh just send in for a subscription...
CHF said...
BG,
who in your opinion is NOT a disinfo agent?
chf,
I don't believe that James, Pat, or most of the commenters here are disinfo agents.
For example, James (in a comment recently) held up the WSJ Editorial page as a beacon of truth. No true disinfo agent would state such as blatant lie for fear of being exposed.
(humor arg arg)...
BG,
who in your opinion is NOT a disinfo agent?
Some (not meant to be exhausive)people that I think should be given the benefit of the doubt:
DRG
Tarpley
Zwicker
Hopsicker (although I conflicted)
Victor Thorn
Lisa Guiliani
Michael Berger (although I'm conflicted)
Peter Dale Scott (very late to the 9/11 game)
Steven Jones (although I'm conflicted)
Kevin Smith
Ruppert (flamed out probably for multiple reasons but not himself a disinfo agent)
I could list more, Jim Marrs perhaps.
Just because they don't appear on the list above, doesn't mean that I think any part. 9/11 Skeptic is a disinfo agent.
I have spent an enormous amount of time researching people, seeing and meeting some in person, such as Sibel Edmonds, Ruppert, Tarpley, Haupt, C. Broulliet, Hopsicker, Kevin Smith, Morgan Reynolds, Jack Blood.
As I say I don't claim infallibility. I haven't published any articles of note. So I'm clearly a marginal researcher.
Continuing the my list of honest 9/11 Researchers, I should include:
Michel Chossudovsky and
http://www.globalresearch.ca/
Continuing the list....
I have to give credit to Michael Rivero and WhatReallyHappened.com
His site has the look of disinfo, and he posts from dubious sources and quality.
When if comes to putting the evidence and likely truth out about pivotal events, have a look at the write up about OK City Bombing".
He's right on the money.
I trust:
Gerhard Wisnewski (Germany)
ENGLISH: THE PHANTOM OF TERRORISM
I don't believe Dylan and crew are disinfo. But I don't think their work is a foundation to use to make a case for 9/11 doubt on.
CHF said...
Continuing the my list of honest 9/11 Researchers, I should include: Michel Chossudovsky
Ah yes, the weather machine man.
Out of that long list I provided, the above is the best silly ad-hominem attack you can launch.
I demand a stronger opposition!
Strange that there are no architects, building designers, structural dynamics engineers, aircraft investigators, etc
The bottom line is: Here are some My experts, anyone of them is more qualified than
Dr, Jones and there are many more
Air Crash Analysis
Cleveland Center regional air traffic control
Bill Crowley special agent, FBI
Ron Dokell president, Demolition Consultants
Richard Gazarik staff writer, Pittsburgh Tribune-Review
Yates Gladwell pilot, VF Corp.
Michael K. Hynes, Ed.D.,
ATP, CFI, A&P/IA president, Hynes Aviation Services; expert, aviation crashes
Ed Jacoby Jr. director,
New York State Emergency Management Office (Ret.); chairman, New York State Disaster Preparedness Commission (Ret.)
Johnstown-Cambria County Airport Authority
Matthew McCormick manager, survival factors division, National Transportation Safety Board (Ret.)
Wallace Miller coroner, Somerset County, PA
Robert Nagan meteorological technician, Climate Services Branch, National Climatic Data Center
Dave Newell director, aviation and travel, VF Corp.
James O’Toole politics editor, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
Pennsylvania State Police Public Information Office
Jeff Pillets senior writer,
The Record, Hackensack, NJ
Jeff Rienbold director, Flight 93 National Memorial, National Park Service
Dennis Roddy staff writer, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
Master Sgt. David Somdahl public affairs officer,
119th Wing, North Dakota
Air National Guard
Mark Stahl photographer; eyewitness, United Airlines Flight 93 crash scene
Air Defense
Lt. Col. Skip Aldous (Ret.) squadron commander,
U.S. Air Force
Tech. Sgt. Laura Bosco public affairs officer,
Tyndall Air Force Base
Boston Center regional air traffic control
Laura Brown spokeswoman,
Federal Aviation Administration
Todd Curtis, Ph.D. founder, Airsafe.com; president, Airsafe.com Foundation
Keith Halloway public affairs officer, National Transportation Safety Board
Ted Lopatkiewicz director, public affairs, National Transportation Safety Board
Maj. Douglas Martin public affairs officer,
North American Aerospace Defense Command
Lt. Herbert McConnell public affairs officer,
Andrews AFB
Michael Perini public affairs officer, North American Aerospace Defense Command
John Pike director, GlobalSecurity.org
Hank Price spokesman, Federal
Aviation Administration
Warren Robak RAND Corp.
Bill Shumann spokesman,
Federal Aviation Administration
Louis Walsh public affairs officer, Eglin AFB
Chris Yates aviation security editor, analyst, Jane’s Transport
Aviation
Fred E.C. Culick, Ph.D., S.B., S.M. professor of aeronautics, California Institute of Technology
Robert Everdeen public affairs, Northrop Grumman
Clint Oster professor of public and environmental affairs, Indiana University; aviation safety expert
Capt. Bill Scott (Ret. USAF) Rocky Mountain bureau chief, Aviation Week
Bill Uher News Media Office, NASA Langley Research Center
Col. Ed Walby (Ret. USAF)
director, business development, HALE Systems Enterprise, Unmanned Systems, Northrop Grumman
Image Analysis
William F. Baker member, FEMA Probe Team; partner, Skidmore, Owings, Merrill
W. Gene Corley, Ph.D., P.E., S.E. senior vice president, CTL Group; director,
FEMA Probe Team
Bill Daly senior vice president, Control Risks Group
Steve Douglass image analysis consultant, Aviation Week
Thomas R. Edwards, Ph.D. founder, TREC; video forensics expert.
Ronald Greeley, Ph.D. professor of geology, Arizona State University
Rob Howard freelance photographer; WTC eyewitness
Robert L. Parker, Ph.D. professor of geophysics,
University of California, San Diego
Structural Engineering / Building Collapse
Farid Alfawakhiri, Ph.D. senior engineer, American Institute of Steel Construction
David Biggs, P.E. structural engineer, Ryan-Biggs Associates; member, ASCE team for FEMA report
Robert Clarke structural engineer, Controlled Demolitions Group Ltd.
Glenn Corbett technical editor, Fire Engineering; member, NIST advisory committee
Vincent Dunn deputy fire chief (Ret.), FDNY; author, The Collapse Of Burning Buildings: A Guide To Fireground Safety
John Fisher, Ph.D. professor of civil engineering, Lehigh University; professor emeritus, Center for Advanced Technology; member, FEMA Probe Team
Ken Hays executive vice president, Masonry Arts
Christoph Hoffmann, Ph.D. professor of computer science, Purdue University; project director, September 11 Pentagon Attack Simulations Using LS-Dyna, Purdue University
Allyn E. Kilsheimer, P.E.
CEO, KCE Structural Engineers PC; chief structural engineer, Phoenix project; expert in blast recovery, concrete structures, emergency response
Won-Young Kim, Ph.D. seismologist, Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory, Columbia University
William Koplitz photo desk manager, FEMA
John Labriola freelance photographer, WTC survivor
Arthur Lerner-Lam, Ph.D. seismologist; director,
Earth Institute, Center for Hazards and Risk Research, Columbia University
James Quintiere, Ph.D. professor of engineering, University of Maryland member, NIST advisory committee
Steve Riskus freelance photographer; eyewitness, Pentagon crash
Van Romero, Ph.D. vice president, New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology
Christine Shaffer spokesperson, Viracon
Mete Sozen, Ph.D., S.E. Kettelhut Distinguished Professor of Structural Engineering, Purdue University; member, Pentagon Building Performance Report; project conception, September 11 Pentagon Attack Simulations Using LS-Dyna, Purdue University
Shyam Sunder, Sc.D.
acting deputy director, lead investigator, Building and Fire Research Laboratory, National Institute of Standards and Technology
Mary Tobin science writer, media relations, Earth Institute, Columbia University
Forman Williams, Ph.D. professor of engineering, physics, combustion, University of California,
San Diego; member, advisory committee, National Institute of Standards and Technology
http://www.house.gov/science/hearings/full02/mar06/corley.htm
W. Gene Corley, Ph.D., P.E., S.E. (Team Lead)
Senior Vice President
Construction Technologies Labor
Skokie, Illinois
Expert in building collapse investigations; principal
investigator, Murrah Federal Office Building Study
William Baker, P.E., S.E.
Partner, Skidmore Owings & Merrill LLP
Chicago, Illinois
Expert in tall-building design
Jonathan Barnett, Ph.D.
Professor, Center for Fire Safety Studies
Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Worcester, Massachusetts
Expert in building fire safety design and fire computer modeling
David T. Biggs, P.E.
Ryan-Biggs Associates
Troy, New York
Expert in facades
Bill Coulbourne, P.E., S.E.
Principal, URS Corporation
Gaithersburg, Maryland
Expert in BPAT Studies
Edward M. DePaola, P.E.
Partner, Severud Associates
Consulting Engineers
New York, New York
Expert in structural engineering
Robert F. Duval
Senior Fire Investigator
National Fire Protection Association
Expert in fire investigations
John W. Fisher, P.E.
The Joseph T. Stuart Professor of Civil & Environmental Engineering
Lehigh University
Bethlehem, Pennsylvania
Expert in metallurgy and connections
Richard G. Gewain
Senior Engineer, Hughes Associates, Inc.
Baltimore, Maryland
Expert in fire engineering
Ramon Gilsanz, P.E., S.E.
Parner, Gilsanz Murray Steficek, LLP
New York City
Expert in structural engineering
John L. Gross, Ph.D., P.E.
Leader, Structural Systems and Design Group
Building and Fire Research Laboratory
National Institute of Standards and Technology
Gaithersburg, Maryland
Expert in steel design and fire-structure interaction
Ronald Hamburger, P.E., S.E.
Senior Vice President,
EQE Structural
Engineers Division
ABS Consulting
Belmont, California
Expert in structural analysis and design
Nestor Iwankiw
Vice President, Engineering and Research
American Institute for Steel Construction
Chicago, Illinois
Expert in steel design
Venkatesh Kodur, Ph.D., P.E.
Institute for Research in Construction
National Research Council of Canada
Ottawa, Ontario
Expert in fire resistance design and fire effects on materials
Eric Letvin
Department Head, Hazards Engineering Group
Greenhorne & O’Mara
Greenbelt, Maryland
Project Manager
Jon Magnusson, P.E.
Chairman of the Board, Chief Executive Officer
Skilling Ward Magnusson Barkshire, Inc.
Seattle, Washington
Expert in structural analysis and high-rise design
Christopher E. Marrion, P.E.
Fire Strategist, Arup Fire
New York, New York
Expert in fire engineering
Therese P. McAllister, Ph.D., P.E.
Senior Structural Engineer
Greenhorne & O’Mara
Greenbelt, Maryland
Team Coordinator
James Milke, Ph.D., P.E.
Associate Professor & Associate Chair, Department of Fire Protection Engineering
University of Maryland
College Park, Maryland
Expert in fire resistance analysis
Harold E. "Bud" Nelson
Consultant
Annandale, Virginia
Expert in fire engineering
James A. Rossberg, P.E.
Director, Structural Engineering Institute
ASCE
Reston, Virginia
ASCE Staff Lead
Saw-Teen See, P.E.
Managing Partner
Leslie E. Robertson Associates
New York, New York
Expert in structural analysis and high-rise design
Robert Smilowitz, Ph.D., P.E.
Principal, Weidlinger Associates
New York City
Expert in blast effects
Bruce Swiren
Hurricane Program Manager, Region II
Federal Emergency Management Agency
New York, New York
FEMA Region II Contact
Paul Tertell, P.E.
Program Manager, Building Performance Assessment Team
Federal Emergency Management Agency
Washington, D.C.
FEMA BPAT Project Officer
stevew,
It seems odd to me that you would mention Gazarik near the beginning of your list.
I admit complete ignorance of his journalism.
It is interesting, to me at least, the Richard Mellon Scaife has used him as the go-to man to get to the bottom of a very odd death.
I expect Mr. Scaife's media empire to do about as much to expose corruption as the Pope did to expose Catholic Pedophile Priests.
1999 Article
CHF said...
Silly ad-hominem attack?
He thinks the US controls weather with secrtet weather weapon devices.
What the hell should I call him?
How much have you looked into HAARP and weather modication, chf?
Stevew said...
I think I'm beginning to see. One of the things you are doing is cutting and pasting the "experts" behind the Popular Mechanics "debunk".
Here's why your argument does not stand up with that tact.
Popular Mechanics' Assault on 9/11 Truth
I posted a long list with many more not posted. Why did you not compare all of them with your list.
Strange that there are no architects, building designers, structural dynamics engineers, aircraft investigators, etc on your list
stevew,
My inclination to ignore you was the right choice to begin with.
BTW
as always you tapdance. Why don't you give a comprehensive, point by point rebuttle like PM did and they are only one. You can't discredit their experts, all you do is whine. You socalled experts are proven frauds, try doing it with all of mine.
Ignoire me if you wish, it only proves that you whaks have nothing, if you did you would do more than ask questions and whine
stevew,
I believe your postings show clear evidence of a complete unwillingness to engage in a "real" conversation or debate.
That's why I have no further interest dealing with your BS.
Fine with me. You have yet to back up anything with hard evidence, prove anything I said wrong, so like all you toofers you crawl away, tail between your legs and cry. You want dialogue, you might start by proving me wrong
chf,
Sounds like just another Alex Jones.
chf,
Let me get this straight. You've done no research into whether there are weather modification technologies that could be in use. You think it sounds crazy. You find the whole idea that there may be hidden conspiracies distasteful. You think most of Alex Jones concerns are silly or crazy. You think one small area that Michel Chossudovsky has written about resembles the rhetoric of Alex Jones.
And the bottom lines is....
Nothing either one of them says has any validity?
Not only that, all other claims of reasons to question 9/11 are equally as bogus?
What are you arguing?
CHF said...
I would ask you to argue the merits of an issues based on the overall evidence, rather than pointing a finger at people and calling them kooks.
This is part of your technique. It part of this blog's technique. It's part of the MSM's technique.
It is dishonest. If you want the truth, and want to act morally, you are avoid using what is really a cowardly lack of arguing the real question.
Chf
Notice he still has provided no evidence to support his claims, yet he knocks 1 or 2 real experts. This is the same ploy that all the toofers use because their arguements have no merit
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
It is fascinating that, in his desperation, the fraud bg trots out Hoffman's feeble response to the PM article that exposed so many of the liars' canards. The article has been expanded, as we all know, into a full-length book that addresses most of Hoffman's distortions and outright falsehoods.
Here is my opportunity to again send bg packing by posting a few quotes taken from the PM book. These are demolition experts talking:
"His [Jones's] reasoning is that a thermite reaction with steel can produce molten metal.
Pense believes Jones is again mistaken. 'I don't know anyone else who thinks thermite reactions on steel columns could have done that.'
Richard Fruehan, professor of metallurgical engineering at Carnegie Mellon University, says Jones does not provide adequate evidence to show that thermite reactions did take place. However, even if they did, that would not necessarily indicate the presence of explosives. 'The thermite could have occurred with aluminum metal and any oxide that happens to be near it. Or oxygen could react with aluminum as well. There was a lot of aluminum in the building itself--the windows, etc., plus the airplane's aluminum. That could have cause a thermite reaction and produced a small amount of molten iron.'
In any case, Mark Loizeaux, president of Controlled Demolition Inc., says Jones misunderstands the properties of explosive charges. Although these charges provide intense heat, he says, the velocity of detonation is too fast--28,000 feet per second--to melt steel. When an explosive is detonated, it cuts through steel with force; it does not burn through it with heat. He makes the analogy of a person putting his hand through a candle: He can swipe it straight through the flame quickly without getting burned. But if he holds it several inches above the flame for an extended period, he will get burned. 'The difference is the duration of the exposure,' he says, 'I can put a shaped charge on a steel column for a test shot and then walk right up and put my hand on the column. There's no heat [because it burns too fast]. Now, how do they make steel in a steel mill? They take fuel and they keep heating the iron ore or scrap steel until it melts. So, could explosives melt steel? Absolutely not. It's too fast an exposure.' "
Okay, you must think that all of these people are going wrong somewhere. What do you know that they don't? Really, at some point, you simply must say something substantive.
12:17 PM
pomeroo,
I may be wrong. I don't think my motives or behavior would justify the label of "fraud"
My purpose is to provoke you to respond more concretely. I actually do appreciate your civil tone.
I may be wrong. I don't think my motives or behavior would justify the label of "fraud"
You're right.
"Loon" would be more accurate.
For Christ's sake BG, you're defending weather-control CT's now? Are you TRYING to make yourself into a parody?
I checked out the "International Currency Review" at the University of Washington business library. Unfortunately they only carry through 1996, which is a bit odd. The UW has one of the largest collections in the world, so I am asuming there is some reason they stopped carrying it.
It is an actual periodical discussing currency exchanges, although it was also filled with paranoid articles such as "The Perestroika Deception" and articles comparing the EU to the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact. Pretty far out stuff in general.
They earlier issues I flipped through were pretty standard economic stuff, but as the years went by it descended into madness.
They earlier issues I flipped through were pretty standard economic stuff, but as the years went by it descended into madness.
James, thanks for checking that out.
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