Thursday, March 01, 2007

Don't Trust Any Republican Administration Insiders

Says Rigorous Intuition.

Bill Christison, a 29-year CIA Veteran and former director of the agency's Office of Regional and Political Analysis, has written that "An airliner almost certainly did not hit The Pentagon. Hard physical evidence supports this conclusion.... The North and South Towers of the World Trade Center almost certainly did not collapse and fall to earth because hijacked aircraft hit them.... These first two points provide the strongest evidence available that the 'official story' of 9/11 is not true." Retired Major General Albert Stubblebine, former director of the US Army Intelligence and Security Command and military patron of remote viewing, now says "I look at the hole in the Pentagon and I look at the size of an airplane that was supposed to have hit the Pentagon. And I said, 'The plane does not fit in that hole.' So what did hit the Pentagon? What hit it? Where is it? What's going on?" And Paul Craig Roberts, Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan administration and former Associate Editor of the Wall Street Journal, writes "I will begin by stating what we know to be a solid incontrovertible scientific fact. We know that it is strictly impossible for any building, much less steel columned buildings, to 'pancake' at free fall speed. Therefore, it is a non-controversial fact that the official explanation of the collapse of the WTC buildings is false."


But then he ignores his own advice:

Why are none of them apparently interested in talking about, say, Norman Mineta's testimony before the 9/11 Commission ("Do the orders still stand?"), and its excision from the commission's video archive and published record? Why are insiders not to be trusted, and their authority rejected, until they begin telling us what some of us want to hear? Then, suddenly, they become guileless figures in the know who do again what they did before: lead us.


Yeah, let's lift Norm Mineta up on our shoulders! You know, the guy who used to be Secretary of Transportation under Bush.

In fairness, he does make one interesting point:

I remember the giddy buzz a couple of years ago when Morgan Reynolds became the first figure who could be called a "Bush insider" stepped up as a "9/11 Truth" advocate, and not the most humble one at that. His splashy website and his speaking engagements quickly carried him to the forefront of the "movement's" second wave of leadership - which, unlike the first, is largely consumed by speculative issues of controlled demolition (Reynolds wrote that "WTC demolition is truth inviolate").

31 Comments:

At 01 March, 2007 08:21, Blogger BG said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

 
At 01 March, 2007 08:22, Blogger BG said...

Pat,

Although I could quibble with your details and point of view, this post is indeed the kind of mostly reasonable and informative post which makes me respect this blog.

 
At 01 March, 2007 09:00, Blogger James B. said...

You respect this blog? You spend most of your time talking about what delusional government shills we are.

 
At 01 March, 2007 09:30, Blogger BG said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

 
At 01 March, 2007 09:31, Blogger BG said...

James,

I think you and Pat are honest, not shills.

I think the snarky/insulting tone, and focus on the "low hanging fruit" is not helpful.

On the other hand, all in all, I respect this blog's:

- depth of research
- open commenting
- quality of writing

all admirable.

I don't think I've been viciously attacked by you or Pat. I realise your open commenting means you need to hold off censoring the others who have.

I realise you consider some of my stated ideas just as loony as others who you have addressed, and I don't want a free ride. I do appreciate, however, that you haven't gone out of your way to make any posts that attack me personally.

 
At 01 March, 2007 09:44, Blogger Der Bruno Stroszek said...

Stubblebine, incidentally, was one of the leading advocates of the First Earth Batallion, a bizarre scheme dreamed up in the late 70s to ensure greater military success for America in the future. Well, I say "ensure..."

The perfect First Earth Batallion soldier was described as a "warrior monk" who would go into battle holding flowers and playing soothing music from a chest-mounted speaker. He would have a range of special powers such as invisibility, telekinesis and the ability to walk through walls.

In Jon Ronson's book The Men Who Stare At Goats, Stubblebine recounts an effort he made in his office one day to try and master that last FEB skill. He admits that he just bumped into the wall.

 
At 01 March, 2007 09:47, Blogger Swing Dangler said...

Hey you forgot to mention how bodies and plane parts can be incinerated, but not office contents.

Are they considered 'insiders' when they are no longer on the inside and technically outsiders?

Shouldn't it be former Insiders?

I do appreciate, however, that you haven't gone out of your way to make any posts that attack me personally.

Geez, BG, I wish I could state the same about JamesB.

 
At 01 March, 2007 10:14, Blogger BG said...

SD,

Sorry I haven't been paying attention (to the attack(s) toward you).

I don't support the criticism you suffered as reasonable.

I am, perhaps, giving James and Pat the benefit of the doubt, wanting to believe they will respect the evidence if it is properly vetted.

 
At 01 March, 2007 10:30, Blogger James B. said...

Hey you forgot to mention how bodies and plane parts can be incinerated, but not office contents.


Dude, you might want to study chaos theory a bit. In any large catastrophe the affects are not going to be evenly distributed. If they were, it would really be suspicious.

 
At 01 March, 2007 10:53, Blogger BG said...

James said
James B. said...

Hey you forgot to mention how bodies and plane parts can be incinerated, but not office contents.


Dude, you might want to study chaos theory a bit. In any large catastrophe the affects are not going to be evenly distributed. If they were, it would really be suspicious.

on the thread above, SD, what you have is a lack of comprehension on James' part. His mindset is set, and that explains the ridiculous reach of his come back.

He truly believes that you and I, and everyone else who sees reasonable questions have emotional / politic reasons (e.g. an agenda) to believe what we believe.

I do think the movie Loose Change is somewhat responsible for creation of "dug in" people like James, because it tries to ram the truth down your throat, rather than take a more reasoned tact.

SD, you and I know that being the intelligent guy that James obviously is, if left to do his on review of all the salient details, he would certainly demand investigation as we do. However, he is "dug in".

 
At 01 March, 2007 11:14, Blogger Alex said...

He truly believes that you and I, and everyone else who sees reasonable questions have emotional / politic reasons (e.g. an agenda) to believe what we believe.

No, we blame it on you lack of intelligence. James got it exactly right, but you're too stupid to realize it.

 
At 01 March, 2007 11:22, Blogger BG said...

So, Alex,

Would an IQ Test be a refutation of your charge here?

 
At 01 March, 2007 11:41, Blogger Sword of Truth said...

Would an IQ Test be a refutation of your charge here?

No, actually, it wouldn't.

If we actually thought you and SD suffered from a physically based mental disability, we wouldn't trash you as much as we do (or at least I wouldn't).

The legitimately mentally disabled are deserving of sympathy. And when they do or say things that are way out of the norm for those who don't suffer such disabilities, we cut them some slack.

There are none so blind as those who will not see. The legitimately disabled don't choose to be what they are, you and SD, do.

You choose to act like morons because it allows you to vent your deep seated hatreds.

 
At 01 March, 2007 11:44, Blogger Manny said...

Would an IQ Test be a refutation of your charge here?

Not really. It's not so much your intelligence (though you are very, very stupid) but your almost autistic-like inability to grasp the world around you and make common-sense connections.

In the present instance for example, a normal person might recall instances, whether from the media or from their own personal life or elsewise, when a fire or other damage-inducer caused damage in chaotic ways. But people like you are not normal.

 
At 01 March, 2007 11:52, Blogger Sword of Truth said...

I'm copy & pasting a comment I made over at Smashers blog because it applies to BG's IQ test comment above:

TAM and I have commented on this topic before over at the JREF boards. I am an untrained layperson with experience in volunteer work with the mentally ill while TAM is indeed a trained physician so his opinion far outweighs mine, obviously.

The behavior of the twoofers to my knowledge doesn't match the "textbook" schizophrenic. Your typical delusion caused by actual mental illness is usually a bizarre mish-mash of entirely randomly assembled bits and pieces. An example of a schizophrenic delusion would be "I was told by the Invisible Robot Fish that the driver of the #8 bus has been placing listening devices in my toothpaste under orders from the Lindsay Lohan Fan Club."

Unlike true mental illness, the 9-11 CTs have an internally consistent logic based, at least in part, upon very real "facts of life". Yes, there are corrupt leaders in the world who can never seem to have enough power and will engage in sinister dealings to expand their wealth and power (9-11 twoofers Hugo Chavez and Mahmoud Ahmedinijad are ironically perfect examples of warmongering power-seekers).

Rather than experience hallucinations of these events being the way they perceive them, they just cut and paste their own assumptions into the gaps in logic and evidence to make the real world conform to their pre-existing biases.

The failings of the twoofers are personal and moral, not psychological.

If anything, it's unfair to the legitimately mentally ill to lump the twoofers in with them.


Original post here.

So go ahead and take that IQ test, Billy. And if it shows that you are indeed physically capable of making the logical conclusions that anti-semitism and other racist or bigoted ideologies are untenable then it will merely prove that you're a hateful bigot by deliberate choice.

 
At 01 March, 2007 12:35, Blogger James B. said...

I wouldn't say it is a lack of intelligence per se, but it is the way of looking at the world.

A normal skeptical person would look at a catastrophic event like a plane crash, and expect it be chaotic. Parts of the plane would survive, parts would be destroyed, some simple items like personal documents would survive, others would be destroyed. Most people understand the variability and randomness of the situation.

A conspiracy theorist does not reason like this though. They look at a situation like this and think, well an engine is made of steel, aluminum and titanium. All of those elements are stronger than the human body or paper, therefore if the engine is destroyed but body parts or pieces of paper survive, there must be some ulterior motive.

Conspiracy theorists cannot account for the randomness and chaos of life, there has to be some hidden puppetmaster pulling the strings. Their minds cannot grasp any other concept. It is not a lack of intelligence, it is a lack of understanding and comprehension.

 
At 01 March, 2007 12:51, Blogger texasjack said...

Obviously there are a few intelligent people in their movement, however, I think they are blinded by their political view points, and others are attention seekers who may have been "passed over" in their careers. I believe Steven Jones fits into the latter category.
However, the bulk of the movement is high school educated and rebellious in nature--there is still hope for them.

 
At 01 March, 2007 12:57, Blogger Alex said...

So they're not unintelligent, they're just clueless? I suppose that makes sense. Still, you won't find any nobel-prize winners amongst them. Most of them ARE stupid, you can't really deny that. Occasionally you'll run into an intelligent twoofer, but all of these will have one thing in common: their perception of the entire world will be contrary to the accepted norm. The intelligent ones won't just believe in the 9/11 nonsense, they'll also beleive in every conspiracy under the sun, as well as buying into alternate economic theories, alternate political systems, and pretty much anything else that isn't "mainstream". So what would you say is wrong with THOSE people, clinically speaking?

 
At 01 March, 2007 13:04, Blogger James B. said...

I am not saying that there aren't also a lot of stupid ones, Jason Bermas is an idiot, no matter which way you spin it, but the unifying factor is not intelligence, at least not in the classically undestood sense.

Of course being able to critically analyze a situation and come up with logical conclusions is also an element of intelligence too...

 
At 01 March, 2007 13:13, Blogger Sword of Truth said...

Conspiracy theorists cannot account for the randomness and chaos of life, there has to be some hidden puppetmaster pulling the strings. Their minds cannot grasp any other concept. It is not a lack of intelligence, it is a lack of understanding and comprehension.

I think alot of it has to do with fanatical devotion to certain political philosophies.

I used to run with the conspiracist crowd back in the early to mid-90's and I fell for alot of crap just because it painted Bill Clinton in a bad light. There were rumors for instance, that the four BATF agents killed at Waco Branch Davidian compound were all former Arkansas state troopers assigned to the gubernatorial protection detail during Clintons term and that they were set up to be killed by the Waco whackos because they knew too much.

Today, my political philosophy is not much different from what it was back then. But I no longer believe that Bill Clinton funded his presidential campaign with coccaine profits.

 
At 01 March, 2007 13:22, Blogger Alex said...

Hah. That's amazing. I actually never heard any of the Clinton conspiracies - I wasn't all that interested in US politics back then.

 
At 01 March, 2007 14:10, Blogger CHF said...

they'll also beleive in every conspiracy under the sun, as well as buying into alternate economic theories, alternate political systems, and pretty much anything else that isn't "mainstream".

Agreed. They're like the goth kids in South Park - being non-conformist is everything to them. It's their identity.

 
At 01 March, 2007 14:54, Blogger Sword of Truth said...

Hah. That's amazing. I actually never heard any of the Clinton conspiracies - I wasn't all that interested in US politics back then.

As a right leaning canadian from Alberta, I've found there's always been a strong interest in what's happening south of the border as American conservatism is much stronger than it is in Canada.

As for Clinton, there's still a few questionable ideas and theories floating around the web.

Like the "Clinton Death List", for example.

Take the above list with as much grains of salt as you would the 9-11 gibberish. Some of the causes of death are likely wrong, or twisted around to sound more sinister. As well as dates and places, or even wether some of these people are dead at all.

 
At 01 March, 2007 15:23, Blogger FatOllie said...

BG said...
So, Alex,
Would an IQ Test be a refutation of your charge here?


No. IQ tests measure penis size, not intelligence. See here

 
At 01 March, 2007 15:32, Blogger FatOllie said...

Swing Dangler said...
Hey you forgot to mention how bodies and plane parts can be incinerated, but not office contents.


Why do you repeat such nonsense?

Nobody who understands that a large Boeing passenger plane hit the Pentagon claims that the plane and its contents were "incinerated." People on the scene shortly after the plane hit report seeing plane parts, plane contents, and body parts. One guy even saw a plane passenger who had been burned in the seat, but not "incinerated." There were sufficient human remains found so that DNA identification could be used to identify all but a few of the people on the plane; something that can't be done if the remains are "incinerated."

 
At 01 March, 2007 15:42, Blogger FatOllie said...

Stubblebine is something else, isn't he? I don't know why he doesn't realize that the Pentagon is made of matter which consists mostly of empty space. Flight 77 was composed of matter consisting mostly of empty space also. Just like walking through walls, don't you know.

Apparently, Stubblebine is a West Point graduate, which explains a lot. West Point is a breeding ground for bizarre behavior.

The fact that Stubblebine could rise to the rank of Major General in our army makes me fear for our future.

 
At 01 March, 2007 17:15, Blogger Pat said...

Regarding Stubblebine, people can go insane at different times in their lives. I strongly suspect he was not cuckoo when he got out of West Point, or when he was promoted to high positions in the military. But obviously he did go 'round the bend at some point.

I do think that a disproportionate share of the Truthers are below average in intelligence, but that does not apply to most of the leaders nor to all of the followers. I would not care to test my IQ against Greg Jenkins or Steven Jones, for example, even though I'd qualify for Mensa if I cared enough to join (I don't). I do think it has to do with the conspiratorial mindset, and that may vary with age. Certainly I was very receptive to conspiracy theories (JFK, for example) when I was younger and am not anymore. Is that a sign that I've become ossified, or that I've gained more wisdom? Deponent sayeth not.

 
At 01 March, 2007 17:25, Blogger Swing Dangler said...

Gentlemen, I didn't say the plane and bodies were incinirated, the Department of Defense did.
So please, go explain chaos theory to them.

As far as conspiracy theories are concerned if you deny them, well then you must be a Holocaust Denier, eh?
Wasn't that a conspiracy?

Checkout How Stuff Works and examine conspiracy theories. It has nothing to do with IQ, mental stability or anything of that nature.

The fact is conspiracies do exist. Powerful and rich, powerless and poor people do conspire for less than noble reasons.
Invading a country based on lies? Conspiracy
Testing ethnic groups without their knowledge? Conspiracy
Bush Admin. having the EPA lie about air qualitiy? Conspiracy
Murder of Caesar? Conspiracy


It is often referred to in the psychological world as elite deviance. I encourage you to look that up. In the world of politics, the end justifies the means.

Political realism, look it up.

It reality it has nothing to do with the mental state or world view of those who accept conspiracy theories as worthy of research and investigation.

And the list can go on and on.
People at the time would have said no way, that is impossible, they would never do that. Only later and after the facts emerge does it prove to be true.

Those who disavow conspiracies and write them off as something other than what they are have a tendency to believe, in this case their government, would never do such a thing, or it is impossible, or there is no way they would do that to their own people.

When in fact, it would follow historical precedent!

So really, move on from the character attacks, mental state, and all the other ad hominem attacks unless that makes you more secure in your view, then by all means, lie away.

 
At 01 March, 2007 17:54, Blogger CHF said...

Sure conspiracies exist.

Problem is, conspiracies tend to be logical.

For example, no one would take over a plane, land it, crash something else into a buiding and say it was the plane.

 
At 01 March, 2007 21:27, Blogger Alex said...

Gentlemen, I didn't say the plane and bodies were incinirated, the Department of Defense did.

Got a quote for that?

 
At 01 March, 2007 21:59, Blogger Sword of Truth said...

Checkout How Stuff Works and examine conspiracy theories. It has nothing to do with IQ, mental stability or anything of that nature.

Can we please have someone explain to us how sane and rational conspiracy theories are who does NOT believe that 6 million jews faked their deaths in history's biggest life insurance scam?

 

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