Tuesday, March 20, 2007

Field Guide to 9-11 Truthlings

I've probably linked to this before, but it came across my screen this afternoon and provided a few smiles. Nico can be merciless with his scorn for the 9-11 Truthlings. Just for fun, I thought I'd check what categories I fall into:

Blogger, boxcutter, butterhead, candidate, conspiracy theorist, Naudent Brother, passport, cave jerk, flagwaver, planehugger, Popular Mechanic... and I ain't even a "Truther"!

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25 Comments:

At 20 March, 2007 18:30, Blogger debunking911 said...

Whenever I need a chuckle I read this...

The Mindset of 911 Scholars for Truth and Other Conspiracy Kooks
Opinions on a Phenomena by Fredric L. Rice, Chairman, The Skeptic Tank

 
At 20 March, 2007 18:53, Blogger Alex said...

I don't know....anyone who can seriously state something like:

The Bush regime is certainly guilty of committing massive crimes against humanity -- few would care to dispute that -- and the Bush regime is certainly guilty of treason against the people of the United States -- again, few dispute that fact.

isn't all-together there. I mean, yeah, the guy does a decent job of tearing apart the 9/11 conspiracy wackos, but me endorsing him would be rather like endorsing a scientologist just because he happens to have written a good article debunking intelligent design. It's just wrong. There's obviously something wrong with the guy, and I don't want others associating him with me even if he did happen to write something intelligent.

 
At 20 March, 2007 20:03, Blogger debunking911 said...

I consider waterboarding and holding people without do process a "Crime against humanity". Bush doesn't deny doing this. I rather die in the next terrorist attack as an AMERICAN than live a kind of 'Cuban light' country torturing people. I mean "Would Jesus do it" I also think going to war by lying to the American people is a "crime against humanity". The downingstreet memo is all the evidence I need. Did the Italians create the yellowcake evidence for Bush? Is there a "Downingstreet memo in Italy? How stupid was the chemical truck CAD drawing? The first time I saw it I said to myself "we have sats that can see the numbers on a license plate but we can't take a photo of a truck?"

The same tactics used by conspiracy theorists are being used on the people by Bush. The republicans say "Even Clinton said he had WMD." but leave out the fact that that was in 1998 when he DID have WMD. David Kay, Bush's hand picked weapon inspector said in a report Clinton blew the last of it up during operation desert fox. This isn't a liberal saying this.

I could go on pointing out lies on top of lies said by the republicans in office but most republicans in the face of this evidence will just "deny" it.

Sorry for the hijack. We return to your regular broadcast. :P

If you're going to say Their is something wrong with me I hope at least you can back it up with evidence. Where am I wrong...

 
At 20 March, 2007 20:13, Blogger Alex said...

I consider waterboarding and holding people without do process a "Crime against humanity".

And you're wrong. Sorry.

I also think going to war by lying to the American people is a "crime against humanity".

And you're wrong about that too. Sorry.


None of these things are open to discussion. Your opinion on them is irrelevant. Go read up on the Hague conventions.

The rest of your post...well, it's replete with misconceptions and mistakes, but I don't want to hijack this thread any further. I just wanted to point out that the definition of "crimes against humanity" does not hinge on your personal opinion.

 
At 20 March, 2007 20:21, Blogger Pat said...

I'm more concerned about the claims that Atta was on the CIA payroll. I don't care if fellow debunkers dislike the president or would like him up for war crimes/impeachment as long as it's not 9-11 kookery.

 
At 20 March, 2007 20:27, Blogger Alex said...

I don't care if they dislike the president either, but there's a limit to the kind of rhetoric that's reasonable. There's a HUGE difference between saying "I think we should have never gone to war in Iraq", and screaming "HANG ALL DA NAZIBUSHITLER AND HIS HALIBURTONEXXONTEXACO WAR CRIMINAL CRONIES!!!" while torching an effigy of Bush and shitting on the American flag. Just like there's a big difference between reasonable criticism of Israel, and anti-semitism. Or a big difference between asking questions about 9/11, and being a full-out twoofer.

I can deal with opposing viewpoints, sure, and I love talking to people whom I disagree with. But when they hit a certain level of rhetoric and fanaticism, they simply become a fringe element which isn't worth engaging in dialogue with.

 
At 20 March, 2007 20:56, Blogger Avery Dylan said...

Boxcutters!

Ha ha ha ha ha ha

Loose Change The F-I-N-A-L cut, soon to be released, and A-i-r-tight!

 
At 21 March, 2007 06:29, Blogger Stevew said...

I believe that waterboarding was invented by the Seals and is used in the training of all our SO troops. Revovery time is about 15 seconds

 
At 21 March, 2007 08:14, Blogger spoonfed said...

still at it I see ... calling people 'kooks' is so effective.

Anyone who avoids your groupthink mentality and does a few hours of research will know the official story is fucking B.S.

 
At 21 March, 2007 08:17, Blogger spoonfed said...

When did people start trusting politicians? That's what I'd like to know.

There's no credibility left at all. Zero. And those who facelessly back it have even less.

 
At 21 March, 2007 08:45, Blogger Manny said...

When did people start trusting politicians? That's what I'd like to know.

One doesn't have to trust a politician to agree with one who says that the earth revolves around the sun or that grass is green and the sky is blue. And the facts of 9-11, that Islamist extremists hijacked four aircraft and crashed them into three targets and one non-target, are just as incontrovertible, as is the fact that those of you who believe otherwise and who are not intentionally trying to divert attention from the real perpetrators as part of an anti-American agenda are kooks.

 
At 21 March, 2007 09:21, Blogger debunking911 said...

We certainly will agree to disagree here.

Alex, if you want to take this to E-mail I would love a lively debate with someone who isn't a kook.

Thanks Pat for understanding the reason I posted this and not getting offended. I certainly didn't mean to offend anyone.

I can't wait to see Alex Jones spin this into "Debunking911 and Screw loose change split up over Bush!". you know how they love payback.

WE WILL NEVER SPLIT ON CONTROLLED DEMOLITION! NEVER!!! :P

 
At 21 March, 2007 09:40, Blogger Stevew said...

Why is it that the toofers do is claim this and that but never give HARD proof, all we get is opinion, conjecture and the same dumb questions that have been answered dozens of times?

 
At 21 March, 2007 09:40, Blogger Der Bruno Stroszek said...

Anyone who avoids your groupthink mentality and does a few hours of research will know the official story is fucking B.S.

And anyone who does a bit more than a few hours, meanwhile, will realise that your side are desperately pulling loigical fallacies and bad science out of their arses.

That comment reminds me of a quote I once heard from a Creationist; "You don't have to be a genius to realise Darwin's theory is bunk!" Indeed you don't - it seems to be a prerequisite for anti-evolutionists to be complete idiots, and so it is with Truthers too.

 
At 21 March, 2007 09:55, Blogger spoonfed said...

" ...the earth revolves around the sun or that grass is green and the sky is blue."

Really? Oh my.

"That comment reminds me of a quote I once heard from a Creationist"

So questioning 9/11 puts me in the same boat as a creationist.

This is called a red herring.

You guys(or gals) are full of shit.
You have zero credibility. You support a story that has more holes than a block of swiss cheese and is supported and backed by a completely corrupt administration. You should be ashamed aligning yourselves with criminals.

 
At 21 March, 2007 10:05, Blogger Manny said...

So questioning 9/11 puts me in the same boat as a creationist.

No. Creationists are merely wrong or lying. You are wrong or lying and dangerous to your fellow citizens.

You should be ashamed aligning yourselves with criminals.

You're the one diverting attention away from the confessed perps, chief.

 
At 21 March, 2007 10:20, Blogger spoonfed said...

Hey Manny --

How exactly does exposing holes in a corrupt admin "official story" make me dangerous?

Maybe you support O'Reilly and would like to see a completely openly fascist police state where those who question 9/11 should be in detention camps.

Too bad there's only 16% of you losers. I don't even know one personright now who buys the official story.

You're desperate. You lost the battle. You pull red herrings out of the air as if that tactic still works. We're not that dumbed down yet.

 
At 21 March, 2007 10:21, Blogger spoonfed said...

confessed perps -- gimme a break!!! No one buys those confessions -- are you serious ?!?!

 
At 21 March, 2007 10:35, Blogger Der Bruno Stroszek said...

Maybe you support O'Reilly and would like to see a completely openly fascist police state where those who question 9/11 should be in detention camps.

Hahahaha! Yes, I can hear the black helicopters coming as we speak. Newsflash, idiot - no-one is trying to get you put into detention camps. No-one has said anything even approaching that.

The reason? You're not that dangerous. You're not as popular as you think you are. Hell, you can't even agree on a coherent theory, let alone form a credible political movement. Your 'scholars' are squabbling, your radio hosts keep on falling for obvious hoaxes, your filmmakers keep getting called out on their obvious lies, the meida is reporting on your associations with Holocaust deniers, everyone in your silly little club suspects everyone else of being a disinfo agent.

Face it, bud - without that phoney 84% statistic to cling onto, your movement looks like it's failing hard. UFO obsessives always think the gubmint is out to get them too. They're full of shit as well.

Too bad there's only 16% of you losers. I don't even know one personright now who buys the official story.

Maybe you just associate with really stupid people - ever considered that?

 
At 21 March, 2007 13:00, Blogger shawn said...

I consider waterboarding and holding people without do process a "Crime against humanity".

Sorry, neither is.

I don't have any problem with waterboarding - since it can't hurt you, I have problems with the latter point, however.

Also, lying to your people isn't a crime against humanity.

Crime against humanity is defined as "a crime or series of crimes, such as genocide, directed against a large group because of race, religion, country of origin, or other reason unconnected with any individual's responsibility for having committed a criminal act" (dictionary.com).

So you might be able to weasel racial profiling in there, but that's about it.

So questioning 9/11 puts me in the same boat as a creationist.

This is called a red herring.


Isn't it cute when they try to point out logical fallacies but are wrong? 9/11 "Truthers" use the same method of thinking as creationists. The analogy is quite apt, whether your dumb ass understands it or not.

 
At 21 March, 2007 13:39, Blogger Alex said...

debunking911:

Alex, if you want to take this to E-mail I would love a lively debate with someone who isn't a kook.

Sure. ducimus + nospam at gmail dot com. It's been a while since I've had a decent e-mail exchange with an intelligent individual who disagrees with me :)

Thanks Pat for understanding the reason I posted this and not getting offended. I certainly didn't mean to offend anyone.

I hope you don't think I was offended either. I appreciate the article itself, I just don't feel comfortable aligning myself with people who hold extreme views on other issues. To me it'd almost be the equivalent of the 9/11 deniers welcoming holocaust deniers with open arms (although I don't class rabbid Bush opponents anywhere near as low as holocaust deniers). I prefer to separate myself from ideologies I disagree with, even when the individuals who espouse them happen to agree with me on some common issues.


Spoonfed:

So questioning 9/11 puts me in the same boat as a creationist.

This is called a red herring.


No, it's called an accurate comparison. All True Believers have certain things in common. Whether it be 9/11 deniers, the UFO abduction crowd, Bigfoot "researchers", moon-hoaxers, holocaust deniers, creationists, or what have you, they all use the same techniques to try and "prove" their theories. And they all fail miserably.

 
At 21 March, 2007 14:03, Blogger spoonfed said...

No, it's called an accurate comparison. All True Believers have certain things in common. Whether it be 9/11 deniers, the UFO abduction crowd, Bigfoot "researchers", moon-hoaxers, holocaust deniers, creationists, or what have you, they all use the same techniques to try and "prove" their theories. And they all fail miserably.

anyone who believe what you just wrote has no brain. And anyone who writes crap like that is full of shit.

I've posted a challenge to you Screw Folks -- take me up on it.

 
At 21 March, 2007 14:21, Blogger Alex said...

anyone who believe what you just wrote has no brain. And anyone who writes crap like that is full of shit.

I know you are, but what am I.

I've posted a challenge to you Screw Folks -- take me up on it.

You have? Let's for a second pretend that I care. Where is this challenge? What are it's conditions?

 
At 21 March, 2007 14:26, Blogger shawn said...

anyone who believe what you just wrote has no brain.

You're dumber than I thought.

But it's not surprising a true believer doesn't understand the syndrome.

 
At 21 March, 2007 14:48, Blogger Stevew said...

We have to find a supercomputer, software and someone who knows how to use it. The toofers love to ask questions and make challenges they know can't be answered so they think it makes them selves look good

 

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