Friday, February 19, 2010

As Usual

The real hilarity is in the comments. An editor at OpEd News takes on the conspiracy nuts:

Contributors to OEN include a number of prolific writers who advocate for conspiracy theories of all sorts including: 9-11 false flag theory, UFO's are real, JFK was killed by the CIA, Obama isn't a native US citizen, and many many more. On the one hand editors wish to be open and not pre-judge these writers, but at the same time, we want to be discriminating and publish work that is intellectually honest and is not misleading or propaganda veiled as news and opinion. We want OEN to be credible.


I like his point about unfalsifiable beliefs. But read the comments for a chuckle or two:

When you say 2+2=5 and a "truther" says otherwise, there's no room for debate. If Sunstein can tell me how the laws of physics were broken at least 5 times that day, not to mention any other evidence, I'm all ears.


Of course the CIA killed JFK.

We have the video of the driver of the car turning around and shooting Kennedy, which has been covered up all these years.


For matters of physical science, however, from which the steel girders supporting the World Trade Towers evolved, as did the entire design through mathematical calculation, does it matter to you (and the very intellectual, academic Mr. Sunstein), that more than 1000 independent engineers have challenged the 30 government employed NIST engineers on their unprecedented "fire and pancake" theory of collapse?


So now Gage has 1000 engineers?

60 Comments:

At 19 February, 2010 11:10, Anonymous Bikerman said...

"Fire and pancake"? Ha. How about a rabbit with a pancake on its head instead?

 
At 19 February, 2010 14:59, Anonymous NoIdentity said...

These people need to get the fuck over Sunstein. Sunstein is a brilliant academic whose most recent contributions are in the field of economics but these half-wit automatons go after anyone their cult leader Alex Jones identifies as an Enemy of Truth.

 
At 19 February, 2010 15:00, Anonymous NoIdentity said...

I hope Sunstein gets a seat on the Supreme Court just so these fools heads explode in fury. He could replace Ginsburg without any significant ideological shift.

 
At 19 February, 2010 15:07, Anonymous Dylan Unsavery said...

On the one hand editors wish to be open and not pre-judge these writers, but at the same time, we want to be discriminating and publish work that is intellectually honest and is not misleading or propaganda veiled as news and opinion. We want OEN to be credible.

Your just a tad late coming to that conclusion, Mr Editor. The crackpots have been roaming OpEd News for years.

 
At 19 February, 2010 15:10, Anonymous ConsDemo said...

I notice how the twoofer default is now "the science proves we are right, everything else is irrelevant" as if their "science" is somehow impeccable.

 
At 19 February, 2010 16:41, Anonymous paul w said...

It’s never, ever gonna stop.

The local nutjiobs in OZ are having a ‘press conference’ by Gage to celebrate the 1,000 fruticakes at AE911truth.

Their main arguments are the following;

“…path of greatest resistance…vertically and symmetrically…2 1/2 seconds of pure free-fall (zero resistance)…the complete destruction and dismemberment of both Twin Towers in just 10 to 14 seconds, which is near free-fall acceleration – again, requiring all 47 massive core columns to be explosively severed…sounds of explosions…flashes of light…ejected laterally 600 ft at 60 mph…Mid-air pulverization of 90,000 tons of concrete & metal decking…should have been 110 floors stacked up at the bottom of this “gravitational collapse”….isolated explosive ejections of pulverized building materials 20 – 40 stories below the “collapsing” portion of the building…molten metal in the debris under each of the three high-rises – yet fires and jet fuel cannot possibly be responsible for these temperatures…evidence of thermite incendiaries has been found by scientists in the previously molten iron/steel, dust, and samples…Evidence of advanced explosive nanothermitic composite material was found in the dust samples by an international team of scientists…This substance is manufactured only in the most sophisticated defense contracting laboratories. What is it doing in the World Trade Center dust?... There is no precedent for steel-framed high-rises collapsing due to fire…”

As I said, it ‘aint never goona stop. It's 2010, for crying out loud, so expect that rubbish in 2020.

And, here’s what they finish that lot off with;

“These questions and conclusions are shared by thousands of scientists; senior-level military, intelligence and government officials; pilots and aviation professionals; firefighters; scholars and university professors; 9/11 survivors and their family members; and other professionals around the world.”

If that doesn't make you laugh, the sites they post after this will;

www.patriotsquestion911.com , www.firefightersfor911truth.org , www.journalof911studies.com .


Comedy gold.

 
At 19 February, 2010 16:46, Anonymous NoIdentity said...

It’s never, ever gonna stop.
No, it will never end. The 9-11 truth mythology will be with us forever. We were discussing on angrysoba's blog conspiracies about the USS Maine. The ship whose destruction sparked the Spanish-American war, in 1898.
I expect silly movies and silly claims to become more extreme as people are less afraid of offending people as 9-11 becomes less fresh in people's minds.

 
At 19 February, 2010 17:15, Blogger Lazarus Long said...

"Of course the CIA killed JFK."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!!!!

 
At 19 February, 2010 17:53, Anonymous New Yorker said...

Is that last comment from Brian Good? He's all over the internet, posting his gibberish, and he likes to babble here about Gage's 1000 nutcases.

 
At 19 February, 2010 19:07, Anonymous ConsDemo said...

No, it will never end. The 9-11 truth mythology will be with us forever. We were discussing on angrysoba's blog conspiracies about the USS Maine. The ship whose destruction sparked the Spanish-American war, in 1898.

Yes and no. Certainly it will live on the Kennedy assassination conspiracy theories and will hold popular allure as the war on terror continues, but the kooks have no chance at succeeding at what they claim they want, i.e. a new publicly sanctioned investigation that would endorse they assertions.

Contrary to what some posters here seem to believe, I don't think this is a big money maker for the kooks. Yeah, Grifter gets some royalties. Maybe Dick Gage gets enough to pay his rent but he can't be making that much and those are the successes. A loser like Boris who has nothing else to do will persist. However, a lot of the kooks who do this 24/7 will have to move on.

In 2020 there will probably still be twoofers, although not the same ones and they will still be making videos of themselves doing stunts. It will never amount to anything more than that.

 
At 19 February, 2010 19:27, Blogger Triterope said...

The other problem is that 9-11 was personally witnessed by millions of ordinary people, and has extensive video available. It was arguably the first conspiracy-generating event where this was the case.

It's easy to say this or that happened in the poorly-lit shadows of Dealey Plaza or Pearl Harbor, when there's not much video and few people were there. But the extensive amount of 9-11 video leaves little room for speculation.

 
At 19 February, 2010 19:55, Anonymous paul w said...

Triterope, that's true, but the public access to the 9-11 horror is also a strength for the truthers - how many have jumped on the bandwagon simply because of the images?

One could argue that the 9-11 images are far more persuasive than fuzzy pictures and documents of the JFK era.

I think 9-11 will become the biggest of conspiracy theories due to the graphic images - I mean, the Twin Towers collapsing, for crying out loud, plus, it was live, and continued for hours.

It was an incredibly public event, not just in the US, but all countries with TV reception.

Even that fact is used by the truthers - shock and awe for the masses.

 
At 19 February, 2010 20:09, Anonymous Ktesibios said...

Having actually read the Sunstein paper that's gotten so many tinfoil hats in a twist, my personal opinion is that it's an odd mix of shrewd observation and stunning naivete.

The authors are sharp enough to take note that CTs are "hermetic" in the sense of being generally unfalsifiable and built that way on purpose. At the same time they manage not to notice that that very same hermeticity renders their idea of "cognitive infiltration" utterly unworkable.

Anyone who has spent any time observing conspiracist 'net venues will surely have been exposed to the reality of how swiftly anyone presenting information which might falsify the CT or exposing the logical failures of the CT will instantly be vilified as a "shill", accused of being a paid agent and b&.

That CT believers suffer from a "crippled epistemology" seems a sound idea, but the notion that it can be remedied by better information and rational argument just shows that the authors haven't got a clue about how deeply linked that crippled epistemology is to the CT true believer's very sense of self or how vehemently (s)he will react against anything that threatens their worldview.

I'm inclined to view the paper in the same way that O'Brien assessed the truthfulness of the book- "As description, yes. The programme it sets forth is nonsense".

 
At 19 February, 2010 20:26, Anonymous Screwed Again said...

Conspiracy definitions from the dictionary
2.
an evil, unlawful, treacherous, or surreptitious plan formulated in secret by two or more persons; plot.
3.
a combination of persons for a secret, unlawful, or evil purpose: He joined the conspiracy to overthrow the government.
4.
Law. an agreement by two or more persons to commit a crime, fraud, or other wrongful act.

Doesn't this fit your version? You are a conspiracy nut.

 
At 19 February, 2010 20:33, Blogger Just Cause Just Facts said...

Will you debate me on youtube and post that debate here on your blog?

Will you keep the debate only on 9/11 not going into JFK, UFO, or any other subject?

You consistently rely on diversions. That tactic blurs the evidence.

 
At 19 February, 2010 20:58, Anonymous Screwed Again said...

You delusional conspiracy nuts never rely on evidence. I read all the comments. There isn't one fact.

"these half-wit automatons"
"these fools heads explode in fury"
"The crackpots have been roaming"
"The local nutjiobs in OZ"
"I expect silly movies and silly claims"
"posting his gibberish, and he likes to babble"
"it will live on the Kennedy assassination"

 
At 19 February, 2010 21:19, Anonymous DOUCHEBAG PATROL said...

Screwed Again - why is your blog full of cases of plagiarism?


http://www.marketwatch.com/story/paulson-files-to-sell-500-mln-in-goldman-stock

"Interestingly, under U.S. government ethics rules, while Paulson is required to sell the shares, he is also exempt from paying taxes on any capital gains on the sale if he obtains a certificate of divestiture. The rule granting the exemption is designed to make sure prospective government employees who own a lot of stock are not dissuaded from joining the government."

WRONG FUCKWAD - the gain is DEFERRED not exempt. BIG difference.

 
At 19 February, 2010 21:27, Anonymous Troofers R Us said...

Nice blog Screwed Again!

"The work required to strap explosives to the columns of the vast WTC buildings had to involve more than 100 experts more than six weeks to complete. The North and South Towers were 110 stories and Building 7 was 47 stories. To be able to complete this job in time for the attack, the security force at the WTC needed to be manipulated to allow access by the expert commandos who strapped the explosives directly onto the hundreds of steel columns that needed to be removed to allow the near, free fall collapse of all three buildings. The columns were exploded out of the buildings. Many pieces of columns fell onto the roofs of nearby buildings."

 
At 19 February, 2010 23:06, Anonymous NoIdentity said...

"I enjoy making people think deeply and honestly about controversial subjects."
What a pretentious load of horse shit! Will your head explode when Sunstein is appointed as associate justice? I hope so!

 
At 19 February, 2010 23:08, Anonymous NoIdentity said...

OMG WHO REALLY MURDERED VINCE FOSTER?
hahaha Jesus tap dancing Christ you guys are so unoriginal!

 
At 19 February, 2010 23:14, Anonymous NoIdentity said...

Oh Jesus you're a fundie too aren't you Stephen Miller? I loved the Book of Revelations too but it's fiction!

Ktesibios
I agree with your assessment here. The authors of the paper are naive and give the CTers way to much credit as potentially rational thinking individuals.

 
At 19 February, 2010 23:32, Blogger angrysoba said...

It’s never, ever gonna stop.

The local nutjiobs in OZ are having a ‘press conference’ by Gage to celebrate the 1,000 fruticakes at AE911truth.


Is Gage going there again?

I expect it was a typo but I do like the word "fruticake".

I agree with ConsDemo that 9/11 Truth can't be raking in that much cash but maybe some people just like the fame.

Steven Jones seems to have a history of being attracted to weird ideas while Gage and Griffin now have their own fanclubs.

 
At 19 February, 2010 23:39, Blogger angrysoba said...

No, it will never end. The 9-11 truth mythology will be with us forever. We were discussing on angrysoba's blog conspiracies about the USS Maine. The ship whose destruction sparked the Spanish-American war, in 1898.


The Cubans maybe, probably, perhaps did it.

 
At 19 February, 2010 23:57, Blogger angrysoba said...

Anyone who has spent any time observing conspiracist 'net venues will surely have been exposed to the reality of how swiftly anyone presenting information which might falsify the CT or exposing the logical failures of the CT will instantly be vilified as a "shill", accused of being a paid agent and b&.

That CT believers suffer from a "crippled epistemology" seems a sound idea, but the notion that it can be remedied by better information and rational argument just shows that the authors haven't got a clue about how deeply linked that crippled epistemology is to the CT true believer's very sense of self or how vehemently (s)he will react against anything that threatens their worldview.


Yes, I agree with this. The problem is that many conspiracy theorists just don't accept rational explanations and won't accept that their own ideas are irrational. To be able to point out their irrationality, rationally, so that they can see it is to presuppose the very thing they lack.

Attempting to talk one of those people out of it simply confirms their belief there is a vast conspiracy and the person talking to them is a part of it.

BUT I don't think all Truthers think the same way. Some of them have clearly very hardened views on 9/11 and will never ever change them. Some of them are more casual believers in it because they haven't had access to information that refutes their beliefs. It is possible that they can be swayed.

 
At 20 February, 2010 05:58, Anonymous Roid Rage said...

Debunker cult

 
At 20 February, 2010 06:56, Anonymous ConsDemo said...

One comment on the OpEdNews thread reveals another perpetual flaw in twoofer thinking.

CNN recently showed photos of the 9/11 World Trade Centers burning. The comment section was very revealing. The great majority of the comments indicated that people do not believe the official government story.

When those photos were released I looked at some of comments. Twoofers weren't "a great majority" or even a majority, but they were certainly disproportionate to their share of the general population (whether you take the twoofers own polls or Cynthia McKinney's vote totals in 2008). However, twoofers are quick to assert they are the majority on the basis of internet threads which they view as akin to surveys of random people. Whenenver there is a 9/11 related story, twoofers swarm it with their crackpottery. Most people (rightly or wrongly) either have said all they have to say on 9/11 or are so displeased with what went on after it they want to push it off to the side. Since much of sane population doesn't get involved in 9/11 discussions but virtually all twoofers do (given this is their raison d'etre plus they all have endless amounts of time on their hands) they do end up composing a sizebale chunk of any online discussion of 9/11. This is what gets them to buy into "84% of the public agrees with us" assertions.

 
At 20 February, 2010 08:29, Anonymous Screwed Again said...

Mr. Bennett,

I speak for myself. For 5 years I wasn't suspicious of the nonsensical story you continue to believe until I learned about the collapse of building 7. The fact that the media covered up the building 7 collapse and the fact that the 911 Commission report completely omitted the building 7 collapse would make any person with an interest in being an American citizen; suspicious.

I watched Loose Change intently three times. Then I heard Gage explain the obvious facts concerning the free fall collapse that dropped all 3 buildings straight into their basements at free fall speed. Unless all the columns are exploded simultaneously out of the way, that would be impossible.

It is "you guys" who refuse to examine the evidence because "you guys" want to protect the American traitors. The Arab Muslims who flew the 2 planes into the 2 (not 3) WTC Towers could never rig the explosives at the 3 (not 2) WTC Towers before 9/11.

Protecting traitors makes you a traitor. Traitors in the military need to be prosecuted. Remember the Walker Spy Family. You are doing far more damage to America than the Walker Spy Family did for 20 years.

What branch are you in and who is your commanding officer? Call my bluff you traitor.

Steve Miller

 
At 20 February, 2010 08:35, Blogger Just Cause Just Facts said...

"I enjoy making people think deeply and honestly about controversial subjects."

That assumes some people have brains capable of thought. That will never happen here.

 
At 20 February, 2010 09:08, Blogger angrysoba said...

The fact that the media covered up the building 7 collapse

They did not. They reported on it when it happened.

Or even before, as you Truthers are so fond of pointing out, so you can't claim a media blackout.

 
At 20 February, 2010 09:28, Anonymous ConsDemo said...

Oh goody, a new America-hating fanatic surfaces.

Then I heard Gage explain the obvious facts concerning the free fall collapse that dropped all 3 buildings straight into their basements at free fall speed.

The fact you are so eager to believe a shameless liar like Dick Gage suggests you aren’t as interested in "facts" as you suggest.



Protecting traitors makes you a traitor. Traitors in the military need to be prosecuted. Remember the Walker Spy Family.

Wow, so refusing to endorse crackpot conspiracy theories about 9/11 makes one a “traitor.” Let me guess, you because you accuse your own country of committing mass murder of its own citizens on NOT A SHRED OF CREDIBE EVIDENCE, you probably call yourself a “patriot.”

What branch are you in and who is your commanding officer? Call my bluff you traitor.

Are you going to call his mommy next? Jeez, we have another stalker!

From this crackpot’s blog:

I will be on the ballot as the Green Party candidate of the CT 4th district and I intend to become the first Green Party candidate to get elected to Congress

ROTFLAO! Yeah, buddy. You and President Cynthia McKinney!

 
At 20 February, 2010 09:44, Blogger angrysoba said...

That assumes some people have brains capable of thought. That will never happen here.

Are you referring to the room in which you are typing?

 
At 20 February, 2010 10:08, Anonymous NoIdentity said...

Wow, so refusing to endorse crackpot conspiracy theories about 9/11 makes one a “traitor.”
Clearly! Don't you remember Kevin Barret telling Amy Goodman that she's gonna hang with the rest of the "traitors?" Quite amusing.
I think the worst variety of truther are the ones who think that people don't agree with them because they're stupid. "oh if only others were as wise as I, they would see the light!" That attitude will win you plenty of support!
Such self-indulgent nonsense makes me ill.
Seriously, Sunstein for Associate Justice.

 
At 20 February, 2010 10:16, Anonymous Roid Rage said...

Seriously, Sunstein for Associate Justice.

Regardless of whether you hate truthers, what if some islamist government proposed 'infiltration' of 9/11 debunking groups? Propose a tax on debunking? Propose laws that ban skepticism of conspiracy theories?

Do you not see the unhealthiness of thought crime? Where does it end? And most of all, why would a ostensibly sane person like you endorse this totalitarian racket, NoID? Is this a partisan thing or something?

Pat doesn't enforce censorship on the blog comments. Something to be lauded. Many truther blogs and websites don't do likewise, in fact, they use censorship to settle discussion. Even JREF does this.

 
At 20 February, 2010 10:23, Anonymous NoIdentity said...

Regardless of whether you hate truthers, what if some islamist government proposed 'infiltration' of 9/11 debunking groups?
More false equivalences. Its not a game "truthers vs debunkers" and the "debunkers" just happend to be in charge of the government.
Islamist governments infiltrate their societies routinely. They are usualy much more direct than what Sunstein proposed, Like hanging people in public.
Propose a tax on debunking? Propose laws that ban skepticism of conspiracy theories?
You just made that shit up. Of course I see a danger in allowing the government to determine what is and what is not acceptable thought. However, it is the duty of the FBI to monitor potentially violent extremist groups. Sunstein wasn't talking specifically about 9-11 truthers he was talking about Racists, tax-protesters, gun-nuts etc etc. Truthers are benign compared to these guys.

 
At 20 February, 2010 10:27, Anonymous NoIdentity said...

And as far as I can tell Sunstein wasn't proposing a COINTELPRO type operation but rather going into chat rooms of forums and asking leading questions that pertain to how one knows what they know, epistemology.
Sunstein is a liberal Harvard academic but because Alex Jones smears him all his zombie followers think he's Goebbels. It pisses me off to no end. Just like people who tell Amy Goodman that she's going to hang piss me off. Caring about social justice just isn't enough, you have to march in ideological lock step or you're gonna hang.

 
At 20 February, 2010 10:37, Anonymous NoIdentity said...

Do you not see the unhealthiness of thought crime? Where does it end?
I will agree with you here. I think it was John Stuart Mill who said that a society, even if it knows the truth, requires dissent to challenge it lest its knowledge become stale dogma.

 
At 20 February, 2010 13:30, Anonymous paul w said...

"The fact that the media covered up the building 7 collapse"

It did not cover up anything - it was reported.

" and the fact that the 911 Commission report completely omitted the building 7 collapse"

WTC7 covered in a separate, specific investigation.

The above is reality.

Then again, why spoil a perfectly good fantasy?

 
At 20 February, 2010 17:46, Anonymous DOUCHEBAG PARTOL said...

"What branch are you in and who is your commanding officer? Call my bluff you traitor."

USN
CNSWG-1
(619) 437-3557

Feel free to call if you really want to know who my CO is asshole.

 
At 20 February, 2010 23:49, Anonymous Anonymous said...

So I suppose Screw Loose Change should rename itself to "Screw 35 Dealy Plaza Eyewitnesses and the Parkland Hospital Doctors"?

Read "A Farewell To Justice" by Joan Mellen for some concrete work on the CIA connection to the murder of President JFK.

 
At 21 February, 2010 06:24, Anonymous Roid Rage said...

You just made that shit up.
Huh?! Did you read a different paper? I thought that was exactly what Sunstein was proposing... ?!

 
At 21 February, 2010 06:46, Anonymous Roid Rage said...

Anonymous: FOR FUCK'S SAKE!

Haven't you figured out how people like Pat and James think yet?

Crudely stated this is the rule:

There ARE NO CONSPIRACIES except LIBERAL CONSPIRACIES and MUSLIM CONSPIRACIES!

Use straw men, guilt by association attacks and character assassinations to bully people who think otherwise.

Use fear of ostracism and fear of shame and ridicule to bully people into withholding legitimate criticisms.

Relentlessly look for the tiniest flaw or weak link in the chain and magnify that 20-fold. Generalize all criticism of government that goes beyond incompetence and coincidence theory into the realm of "conspiranoid".

Exploit peoples psychological weaknesses with a barrage of propaganda techniques. Remove all nuance from institutional analysis. Engender hatred and polarization among people who would otherwise see commonalities in their desire for a free, prosperous and just society.

Reinforce the exceptionalist pipe-dream. Label dissent as mentally unhealthy. Offer no alternatives, just passively sit and camp until you can take some more cheap pop shots at those who stick their necks out. Isolate and focus on the fringe and frame the fringe as the whole. Play into people's desire to be accepted by peers. Play into tribalism. Divide society into friends and enemies and paint critics as enemies or enemy facilitators.

This is how it works...haven't you fucking figured it out yet?

What I find most comical is the absurdities resulting from the desire to be consistent about conspiracies: there are none. No government conspiracies can exist, otherwise there is circumstantial precedent for other such events. Sooner or later this escalates into bizarre denialism. Just watch the double standard in action as the various visitors here display their comical and supremely hypocritical conspiracy favoritism.

 
At 21 February, 2010 11:47, Blogger Lazarus Long said...

"Read "A Farewell To Justice" by Joan Mellen for some concrete work on the CIA connection to the murder of President JFK."


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA!!!!!!!!


Oh jeebus you morons are so stupid.

 
At 21 February, 2010 11:54, Anonymous Arhoolie said...

Well said RR.The insane conspiracy theories trotted out by the Debunker Cult have sunk their ship and they're still carrying on like they just intercepted it and ran it back for a 104- yard touchdown.Pathetic blowhard Yahoos,they are.The silliest thing of all is that some of them still rant and rave about a supposedly devious conspiracy by "truthers" to claim virtual free fall in #7 even though it states in the final NIST report that such a thing definitely happened.Lately they've been trying to contort radical and unpopular opinions into "treason"! According to the insane PornBoy everything is a liberal Commie conspiracy to ruin the USA.

 
At 21 February, 2010 12:02, Anonymous NoIdentity said...

Huh?! Did you read a different paper? I thought that was exactly what Sunstein was proposing... ?!
Taxing people based on their opinions? I thought they (he co-wrote the paper) were just proposing covert subversion. Not taxes or outright bans.
Although the "ban" would be implicit if it warranted government action.

 
At 21 February, 2010 17:06, Anonymous Roid Rage said...

II. Governmental Responses
What can government do about conspiracy theories? Among the things it can do, what should it do? We can readily imagine a series of possible responses. (1) Government might ban conspiracy theorizing. (2) Government might impose some kind of tax, financial or otherwise, on those who disseminate such theories. (3) Government might itself engage in counterspeech, marshaling arguments to discredit conspiracy theories. (4) Government might formally hire credible private parties to engage in counterspeech. (5) Government might engage in informal communication with such parties, encouraging them to help. Each instrument has a distinctive set of potential effects, or costs and benefits, and each will have a place under imaginable conditions. However, our main policy idea is that government should engage in cognitive infiltration of the groups that produce conspiracy theories, which involves a mix of (3), (4) and (5).


"Conspiracy Theories", Sunstein/Vermeule, page 14

 
At 21 February, 2010 17:28, Anonymous jw said...

Good comment by consDemo, "I notice how the twoofer default is now "the science proves we are right, everything else is irrelevant" as if their "science" is somehow impeccable."

It doesn't matter what you say to a conspiracy nut, - you can point out, for example, just how bizarre it would be to purposely collapse building 7, with the whole world watching,in the most obvious fashion, thus providing frenzy for generations of conspiracy theorists.

The response is still the same tired bullshit, - "I don't care. The laws of physics were transgressed", as if these idiots even know what the laws of physics are.

I can't see this truth movement,(surely the most inappropriately named group in history) dying out any time soon.

Go on to any of these conspiracy forums & you'll see how fanatic they are. It's a disturbing experience. Plus, and this is no doubt stating the obvious, the raison d'etre of a conspiracy theory is that it is never proven. If it is, it's dead.

And since there will never ever be any evidence re this ludicrous inside job notion, because you can't have evidence of something that doesn't exist, the whole thing will just go on & on.

In 2020, people will still be watching videos of the towers collapsing, and pompously reflecting on how that bastard Bush & his satanic cohort Cheney got away with it.

 
At 21 February, 2010 18:02, Anonymous New Yorker said...

There ARE NO CONSPIRACIES except LIBERAL CONSPIRACIES and MUSLIM CONSPIRACIES!

Use straw men, guilt by association attacks and character assassinations to bully people who think otherwise.


It's really hilarious to read Rodi Rage's babble about Pat and James. It's as if he's so desperate for them to behave according to his right-wing boogeyman stereotypes that he's made himself believe this.

Trust me, Roid Rage, there would be a lot fewer of us here if this blog was simply repeating Limbaugh talking points. I sure wouldn't be here.

Please go see a psychiatrist, Roid Rage. You're obviously not well.

 
At 21 February, 2010 18:29, Anonymous Roid Rage said...

It's really hilarious to read Rodi Rage's babble about Pat and James. It's as if he's so desperate for them to behave according to his right-wing boogeyman stereotypes that he's made himself believe this.
Nope. It's true. I specifically asked Pat about some of his other beliefs and the answers were telling.

Trust me, Roid Rage, there would be a lot fewer of us here if this blog was simply repeating Limbaugh talking points. I sure wouldn't be here.
I've seen ideological differences between you and the other frequenters. What unifies SLC fans is their hatred of 9/11 truth, which is ostensibly more powerful than the partisan divide.

Please go see a psychiatrist, Roid Rage. You're obviously not well.
Thanks for vindicating my analysis. =)

As expected: "Label dissent as mentally unhealthy."

Closely related to:
(...) character assassinations

(...) fear of ostracism and fear of shame and ridicule to bully people into withholding legitimate criticisms.

(...) Generalize all criticism of government that goes beyond incompetence and coincidence theory into the realm of "conspiranoid".


Prediction of your next response: "No you are actually crazy, not a legitimate dissenter". This, of course, precisely qualifies as a typical attempt to ridicule legitimate dissent, and also further proves my point.

Again, what is most hilarious is that this blog's mascot is now doing counseling and on medication, and continues to get arrested for shit like racial slurs against a police officer and stalking women, while originally starting out as a child abuser.

What a sad clique of delusional hypocrites you belong to, New Porker! LOL!

 
At 21 February, 2010 18:36, Anonymous NoIdentity said...

However, our main policy idea is that government should engage in cognitive infiltration of the groups that produce conspiracy theories, which involves a mix of (3), (4) and (5).
So he speculates about but does not argue for bans (1) and taxes(2). I'd also advise strongly against (3) or (4) because if the government officially started bickering with conspiracy theorists it would only validate them. I'm not sure the constitution prohibits the government from promoting certain arguments; it just prohibits them from prohibiting any arguments. Options (1) and (2) are definitely unconstitutional.

 
At 21 February, 2010 18:42, Anonymous NoIdentity said...

What unifies SLC fans is their hatred of 9/11 truth, which is ostensibly more powerful than the partisan divide.
You just witnessed first hand how irritating and fallacious "truthers" can be in the form of JustCauseJustFacts.
Those qualities cause the hate for truthers, not (just) right-wing extremism.

 
At 21 February, 2010 18:46, Anonymous NoIdentity said...

I always found conspiracy theories fascinating albeit irrational. I don't think I started hating them till me ex became an info-tard.
Hey, I'm just being honest!

 
At 21 February, 2010 18:59, Anonymous New Yorker said...

I've seen ideological differences between you and the other frequenters.

I think most of us keep our politics muted most of the time. Lazarus Long is a Limbaugh-style troll, but that's about it.

What unifies SLC fans is their hatred of 9/11 truth, which is ostensibly more powerful than the partisan divide.

It's not "hatred of 9/11 truth", it's sanity. On this topic, those people who have a grasp of reality are on reality's side, left or right. Noam Chomsky comes down on the same side as Rush Limbaugh on this question. That should tell you something.

"Label dissent as mentally unhealthy."

You really need to learn what words mean. Claiming that the sun revolves around the earth is not "dissent", it's madness. Claiming the Bush administration blew up the WTC in a controlled demolition is not "dissent", it's madness.

Prediction of your next response: "No you are actually crazy, not a legitimate dissenter".

Again, words have meanings. Scream and cry all you want about how much you don't like that 1+1=2. It's not "dissent".

Again, what is most hilarious is that this blog's mascot is now doing counseling and on medication, and continues to get arrested for shit like racial slurs against a police officer and stalking women, while originally starting out as a child abuser.

This has nothing to do with anything. Troy Sexton's problems do nothing the change the reality of what happened on 9/11.

What a sad clique of delusional hypocrites you belong to, New Porker! LOL!

Seek professional help. And try to get laid, too.

 
At 21 February, 2010 19:08, Anonymous Roid Rage said...

I think most of us keep our politics muted most of the time. Lazarus Long is a Limbaugh-style troll, but that's about it.
Wishful thinking.

It's not "hatred of 9/11 truth", it's sanity. On this topic, those people who have a grasp of reality are on reality's side, left or right. Noam Chomsky comes down on the same side as Rush Limbaugh on this question. That should tell you something.
Yeah. Chomsky accommodates McCarthyism, like the Democratic party.

You really need to learn what words mean. Claiming that the sun revolves around the earth is not "dissent", it's madness. Claiming the Bush administration blew up the WTC in a controlled demolition is not "dissent", it's madness.
Using straw men is deceitful. Thanks for further proving my point.

Again, words have meanings. Scream and cry all you want about how much you don't like that 1+1=2. It's not "dissent".
Oh how you wish it was that simple.

This has nothing to do with anything. Troy Sexton's problems do nothing the change the reality of what happened on 9/11.
Don't change the subject. He is seeking (and getting) the professional help you think we all need. You're a hypocrite, period.

Seek professional help.
Thanks for further proving my point. Send some flowers to Troy.

And try to get laid, too.
Are you sending your filthy, horny whore mother over for a truther gang-bang as alluded to in the other thread?

 
At 21 February, 2010 20:21, Anonymous New Yorker said...

Wishful thinking.

False.

Yeah. Chomsky accommodates McCarthyism, like the Democratic party.

False.

Oh how you wish it was that simple.

It is that simple. I'm sane, you're not. I'm also cooler than you and have more friends and get more girls. Ha ha ha!

He is seeking (and getting) the professional help you think we all need.

I'm glad he is. What does this have to do with 9/11?

You're a hypocrite, period.

False.

Thanks for further proving my point. Send some flowers to Troy.

Seek professional help.

Are you sending your filthy, horny whore mother over for a truther gang-bang as alluded to in the other thread?

I love, love, LOVE how this sends you into the biggest rage, every time. Hitting too close to home, eh? You "truther" idiots make it too easy.

I can't wait to read your squeals of anger in response to this.

 
At 21 February, 2010 21:32, Anonymous NoIdentity said...

Yeah. Chomsky accommodates McCarthyism, like the Democratic party.
Oh come on.

 
At 22 February, 2010 02:13, Anonymous Roid Rage said...

False.
True

False.
True

It is that simple. I'm sane, you're not. I'm also cooler than you and have more friends and get more girls. Ha ha ha!
How old are you? I think not. LOL!

I'm glad he is. What does this have to do with 9/11?
Dodgery dodge by fat porker!

False.
True.

Seek professional help.
No problem. We have lots of professional help.

Have you visited Troy at the psycho ward yet? LOL.

I love, love, LOVE how this sends you into the biggest rage, every time. Hitting too close to home, eh? You "truther" idiots make it too easy.

I can't wait to read your squeals of anger in response to this.

Yeah! I'm loving it too! I love how I can verbally abuse you in any way imaginable and how you can barely keep your composure reading it. I love how your insecurity and your apparent loneliness prompts you to claim you have more friends and more girls.. Do you have a bigger car too? =) LOL!!

Most of all, I love you how are a hypocrite defending untenable positions. After all, debating such a person is a feast of gloat. You're a clown, and your SLC buddies here are the circus entourage.

 
At 22 February, 2010 03:47, Anonymous Roid Rage said...

Oh come on.

Much as I respect Chomsky, he also believes the Warren Commission report. He has a penchant for appeasement in certain areas: a trade-off, if you will, in order to gain ground in other areas. He's compromising.

All he is doing is protecting his credibility among his enemies. They call him a conspiracy theorist anyway, by the way, to which he defends: "it's institutional analysis". I think he dreads the label, and he too realizes it's a slur designed to marginalize. Besides, it all depends on what aspect of 9/11 he rejects and accepts. I can understand Chomsky rejects CD, although he probably hasn't looked into it. I can understand he rejects no plane bullshit, space beams, no plane hit the Pentagon, no hijackers & no islamic terror crap. Would he deny the 9/11 commission was a cover-up? I doubt it. He's a blowback theorist, and he'd want those issues addressed. I agree.

 
At 22 February, 2010 06:33, Anonymous New Yorker said...

Much as I respect Chomsky, he also believes the Warren Commission report. He has a penchant for appeasement in certain areas: a trade-off, if you will, in order to gain ground in other areas. He's compromising.

All he is doing is protecting his credibility among his enemies. They call him a conspiracy theorist anyway, by the way, to which he defends: "it's institutional analysis". I think he dreads the label, and he too realizes it's a slur designed to marginalize. Besides, it all depends on what aspect of 9/11 he rejects and accepts. I can understand Chomsky rejects CD, although he probably hasn't looked into it. I can understand he rejects no plane bullshit, space beams, no plane hit the Pentagon, no hijackers & no islamic terror crap. Would he deny the 9/11 commission was a cover-up? I doubt it. He's a blowback theorist, and he'd want those issues addressed. I agree.


Seek professional help. And try to get laid.

 
At 22 February, 2010 07:33, Anonymous Roid Rage said...

Seek professional help. And try to get laid.
Stop debating people who you think need to seek help, and buy a butt plug, you fat frustrated poofter. ROFL.

 
At 23 February, 2010 16:52, Anonymous Arhoolie said...

"New York-er" takes a licking and keeps on ticking!! Blah blah,woof woof,you Bozo.Like that bloviating smirk with the iron butt is out bird-doggin' chicks and banging beaver?! Right.

 

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