Thursday, March 11, 2010

David Ray Griffin Lies About the Hijackers, Again

I swear Russia Today is becoming "All Truther, all the time". In this clip they interview Griffin, ostensibly about Fujita, but it is really about Griffin's own kooky theories, in which, welcome to 2006, Griffin insists the 9/11 hijackers are still alive.





The most inane part:

Waleed al-Shehri for example showed up (laughter) in Morocco in a press conference. The BBC reported on it. And they said "There is no doubt about the fact that he is the man" because the FBI published his picture around the world and it was the same man. And then there is his brother. And yet when the 9/11 Commission wrote its account they said that Waleed and Wail were the ones probably on flight 11 who stabbed the flight attendant. So they just ignored the fact that these two guys were still alive.

OK, first of all, the BBC did not report on the "press conference" other than to pass on the reports of other who were there. Here is the original report:


Saudi Arabian pilot Waleed Al Shehri was one of five men that the FBI said had deliberately crashed American Airlines flight 11 into the World Trade Centre on 11 September.

His photograph was released, and has since appeared in newspapers and on television around the world.

Now he is protesting his innocence from Casablanca, Morocco.

He told journalists there that he had nothing to do with the attacks on New York and Washington, and had been in Morocco when they happened. He has contacted both the Saudi and American authorities, according to Saudi press reports.

The BBC did not take a stand on whether he was the right man or not, the only person claiming that was the mistaken al-Shehri. This mixup with the photo was resolved years ago by 911 Myths anyway.

And the BBC itself corrected this 4 years ago:


We’ve carried the full report, executive summary and main findings and, as part of the recent fifth anniversary coverage, a detailed guide to what’s known about what happened on the day. But conspiracy theories have persisted. The confusion over names and identities we reported back in 2001 may have arisen because these were common Arabic and Islamic names.

Griffin adds in his brother Wail, acting as if both of them were reported alive by the BBC, but he is not even mentioned in the story. There is a good reason for this, because the mistaken Walid does not have a brother named Wail who was a hijacker. The real Waleed does though, which was confirmed both by his family, and the Saudi government.

Stupid, or dishonest? You decide.

Labels:

61 Comments:

At 11 March, 2010 18:40, Blogger ConsDemo said...

I swear Russia Today is becoming "All Truther, all the time".

I decided to see if "Russia Today" is available with my cable company and too my surprise, it was. It is broadcast for an hour in the morning on a sports channel, sandwiched between other paid programs for hair tonic and breast implants and the like. There is a disclaimer at the beginning of RT saying it is a paid program too and the channel doesn't endorse any of its claims.

They clearly to try to fashion themselves on the BBC and they say they run 24/7. There was no twoof stuff the day I watched, I'm not sure when it shows. I suspect hardly anyone sees their twoofer boosterism at least on TV but they do on their website. They ought to go talk to Dimitry Medvedev, since he describes NATO's mission in Afghanistan is worthy, maybe word hasn't filtered down the America-hating cranks at RT.

Oh, by the way, DRG is stupid and dishonest.

 
At 11 March, 2010 18:41, Anonymous Patrick from Cincinnati said...

RT has been a bit out of control lately with the trooferism.

 
At 11 March, 2010 20:03, Anonymous Patrick from Cincinnati said...

OT - some more O&A fun with Jesse Ventura:

youtube.com/watch?v=f8LPk7sRU8Q

Favorite part:

7:30:

Opie: Well, Larry didn't have an answer for that one, so ...
Jimmy: NO ONE DOES!

 
At 11 March, 2010 20:11, Blogger angrysoba said...

RT has been a bit out of control lately with the trooferism.

Not just twooferism. It's wall-to-wall nutjob theories about EVERYTHING!

 
At 11 March, 2010 20:17, Blogger Dan K. Stanley said...

OT: Hey guys, just saw this article and its finally a bit of good news about 9/11.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/03/11/world.trade.center.suit/index.html?hpt=T1

Here's a bit of the article "The settlement would provide a system to pay for the compensation of the injury claims made by people working on the rescue and debris removal for the city and its contractors. This would include construction workers, firefighters, police officers and other workers and volunteers. The settlement would also fund a special insurance policy, which provides additional compensation to any plaintiff contracting certain types of cancer in the future."

It's great news that the first responders are getting some help.

I wonder how long it'll take for the truthers to take credit for this one?

 
At 11 March, 2010 20:26, Blogger angrysoba said...

Breaking news?

 
At 11 March, 2010 20:30, Blogger James B. said...

Well I am sure Dylan Avery is giving them more than that from his DVD royalties.

 
At 11 March, 2010 20:40, Anonymous paul w said...

Griffin?

Dishonest.

But then, what truther isn't dishonest, or genuinely insane?

 
At 12 March, 2010 02:23, Blogger Lazarus Long said...

"Stupid, or dishonest? You decide."

Yes, yes he is.

 
At 12 March, 2010 03:38, Blogger angrysoba said...

More Truther crap on Russia Today!

This time Richard Gage and two British Truthers, Ian Henshall and Annie Machon (ex-girlfriend of David Shayler).

 
At 12 March, 2010 05:36, Blogger Boris Epstein said...

Common names or not, the biggest problem - or one of the biggest - is that the people listed as hijackers and looking like whoever was on the photos of alleged hijackers, have since allegedly surfaced very much alive. But of course Mr B fails to cover that angle. Stupid or dishonest? You decide.

 
At 12 March, 2010 05:47, Anonymous Patrick from Cincinnati said...

Angrysoba,

Yeah, that Crosstalk show isn't interesting until that thalidomide baby Yelena Hanga chimes in. Then it's absolutely entertaining. I can live without that failure of a host, who is one of those Westerners you meet in Eastern Europe - couldn't make it in the West, but can punch above his weight in Moscow as long as he plays by the rules.

Btw I go by a different name at that other blog that you introduced me to. This is because I've had some bad experiences with truther psycho-stalkers like Boris Epstein.

 
At 12 March, 2010 05:49, Anonymous Patrick from Cincinnati said...

Boris, please provide evidence, you psychotic nut. You've had years and years to support that stupid claim - are you going to need 10 more years?

 
At 12 March, 2010 06:42, Blogger Triterope said...

Not to mention Kevin Barrett going to Morocco to meet with one of the alive hijackers. How'd that turn out?

 
At 12 March, 2010 06:43, Anonymous sackcloth and ashes said...

'Common names or not, the biggest problem - or one of the biggest - is that the people listed as hijackers and looking like whoever was on the photos of alleged hijackers, have since allegedly surfaced very much alive.'

Names and links would be nice, stukatch.

 
At 12 March, 2010 06:43, Blogger James B. said...

But of course Mr B fails to cover that angle.

That is what the entire article was about genius. That is a subject we have covered dozens of times. You are incredible, time after time you read posts on subjects, and then complain that we don't address those very subjects. Talk about denial.

Please explain to me, if 8 of these hijackers are supposedly still alive, and 9/11 truth could change the world, and proving these hijackers are alive would significantly boost your case, then why haven't a single one of them been interviewed by the movement? Are you guys really that freaking lazy? Do you not actually take any of this seriously? It is just a subject to be discussed on blogs and message boards, but you will do nothing about it in real life?

At least Kevin Barrett tried somewhat, and even you agree he is a lunatic.

 
At 12 March, 2010 07:42, Blogger angrysoba said...

Please explain to me, if 8 of these hijackers are supposedly still alive, and 9/11 truth could change the world, and proving these hijackers are alive would significantly boost your case, then why haven't a single one of them been interviewed by the movement?

Truthers will believe anything they want to believe on the BBC.

Y'know, the same BBC which knew ahead of time that WTC7 was going to be demolished and reported it.

Y'know, the same WTC7 that Truthers will tell you the media have never mentioned because it was demolished in secret.

 
At 12 March, 2010 08:05, Blogger GuitarBill said...

Boris wrote, "...Common names or not, the biggest problem - or one of the biggest - is that the people listed as hijackers and looking like whoever was on the photos of alleged hijackers, have since allegedly surfaced very much alive. But of course Mr B fails to cover that angle. Stupid or dishonest? You decide."

As I recall, Boris, we've already been over this subject.

In fact, I explained to you that the BBC story is based upon a report ("The investigation and the evidence", BBC News, September 23, 2001) that was proven to be erroneous.

The BBC issued corrections to the story in 2006:

Source: BBC: 9/11 conspiracy theory by Steve Herrmann, BBC News, 27 October 2006.

The story reads in part, "...The FBI is confident that it has positively identified the nineteen hijackers responsible for the 9/11 terrorist attacks. Also, the 9/11 investigation was thoroughly reviewed by the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States and the House and Senate Joint Inquiry. Neither of these reviews ever raised the issue of doubt about the identity of the nineteen hijackers."

Continued...

 
At 12 March, 2010 08:06, Blogger GuitarBill said...

Continued...

In addition to identification of victims, the remains of all the hijackers of United Airlines Flight 93, American Airlines Flight 77 were found and their DNA forensically identified.

Remains of three of the hijackers were found and identified through DNA testing at the Ground Zero.

Remains Of 9 Sept. 11 Hijackers Held by Brian Dakss, 17 August 2002.

The article reads in part, "...(CBS) Among the human remains painstakingly sorted from the Pentagon and Pennsylvania crash sites of Sept. 11 are those of nine of the hijackers...The FBI has held them for months, and no one seems to know what should be done with them. It's a politically and emotionally charged question for the government, which eventually must decide how to dispose of some of the most despised men in American history."

Official: 15 of 19 Sept. 11 hijackers were Saudi by AP, 6 February 2002.

The article reads in part, "...Saudi Arabia acknowledged for the first time that 15 of the Sept. 11 suicide hijackers were Saudi citizens, but said Wednesday that the oil-rich kingdom bears no responsibility for their actions...Previously, Saudi Arabia had said the citizenship of 15 of the 19 hijackers was in doubt despite U.S. insistence they were Saudis. But Interior Minister Prince Nayef told The Associated Press that Saudi leaders were shocked to learn 15 of the hijackers were from Saudi Arabia...'The names that we got confirmed that,' Nayef said in an interview. 'Their families have been notified.'"

Remains of 9/11 hijackers identified BBC News, 28 February 2003.

The article reads in part, "...Forensic experts in New York say they have identified body parts of two of the 10 hijackers who flew planes into the World Trade Center on 11 September 2001. Ellen Borakove, a spokeswoman for the New York Medical Examiner's Office, said the identifications had been made using DNA samples provided by the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI). The FBI had collected the DNA from tiny traces of skin on the steering wheels of vehicles hired by the hijackers and from hair samples recovered from their hotel rooms. Earlier this month, the FBI provided profiles of all 10 hijackers, including alleged ringleader Mohammad Atta, so their remains could be separated from those of victims. 'No names were attached to those profiles. We matched them, and we have matched two of those profiles to remains that we have,' Ms Borakove said. 'We haven't finished our work, so it may be more,' she added."

Now, stop wasting our time with this nonsense, Boris.

 
At 12 March, 2010 08:16, Blogger GuitarBill said...

Additionally Boris, we're well aware that your next move will be to parrot David Ray Grifter and claim that the hijackers were not listed on the "flight manifests". And that's true, as long as you substitute the victims list for the "flight manifest" (obviously, the hijackers aren't listed as victims). The evidence follows:

The following are Flight manifests for flights 11, 175 and 77. They are taken from the Moussaoui trial and are from Exhibit 977.

The faxes, reproduced below, include the names of the hijackers.

Read em' and weep:

Photographic Source: Flight 11 Manifest Exhibit A.

Photographic Source: Flight 11 Manifest Exhibit B.

Photographic Source: Flight 11 Manifest Exhibit C.

Photographic Source: Flight 175 Manifest Exhibit A.

Photographic Source: Flight 77 Manifest Exhibit A.

Photographic Source: Flight 77 Manifest Exhibit B.

Photographic Source: Flight 77 Manifest Exhibit C.


The following images are a Flash presentation for each of the four flights, providing a list of passengers and seat assignments.

Photographic Source: Flight 11 Seat Assignments.

Photographic Source: Flight 175 Seat Assignments.

Photographic Source: Flight 77 Seat Assignments.

Photographic Source: Flight 93 Seat Assignments.

 
At 12 March, 2010 08:22, Blogger Triterope said...

Do you not actually take any of this seriously? It is just a subject to be discussed on blogs and message boards, but you will do nothing about it in real life?

I think that's more and more the case every day.

Have you noticed that the newer Truther posters here and at JREF are a lot more... casual about the whole thing?

9-11 Truth is just subject matter to them, a way to pwn and zap people and shit. We could be arguing about Kirk vs Picard, or Jets vs Patriots, or Batman vs Spiderman for all they seem to care. They just don't seem emotionally invested in the victims, or the perpetrators, or global politics, or any aspect of the event.

Look at our new friend Scootle. He seems to treat 9/11 merely as a vehicle for expressing his youthful cynicism and showcasing his mad skills. His interests are Animation, Video Editing, Music Synthesis, and 9/11 Research... in that order.

To be fair to Scootle, he was 11 or 12 years old on 9/11/2001. He has no adult memories of the pre-9/11 world. So maybe it's just not that shocking to him, like all that Nazi propaganda footage isn't shocking to people who were born after World War II and spent their whole lives hearing about it.

But with all these noobs, I wonder if the movement is going to have a "I was Truther when Truther wasn't cool" moment. I wonder if the Jon Golds and Kevin Barretts and people who've been organizing events for years are going to get sick of the Scootles and Jonathan Elinoffs, newcomers whose only interest in 9-11 Truth is to fulfill their own needs. As if the Truth movement needs anything else to have internal divisions over.

 
At 12 March, 2010 08:23, Blogger Boris Epstein said...

Patrick from Cincinnati said...

Boris, please provide evidence, you psychotic nut. You've had years and years to support that stupid claim - are you going to need 10 more years?

Evidence of what, Patrick?

Also next time if you truly want to get your questions answered you will address me politely and actually make an effort to communicate your points. Your infantile insults and cowardly anonymous slander are getting a bit old and boring.

 
At 12 March, 2010 08:36, Blogger Boris Epstein said...

James B. said...

Please explain to me, if 8 of these hijackers are supposedly still alive, and 9/11 truth could change the world, and proving these hijackers are alive would significantly boost your case, then why haven't a single one of them been interviewed by the movement? Are you guys really that freaking lazy? Do you not actually take any of this seriously? It is just a subject to be discussed on blogs and message boards, but you will do nothing about it in real life?

Mr B, I do not know if those people are still alive. Nor do I know if the story that there were people claiming to be erroneously identified as hijackers were correct to begin with. However, from what I recall, individuals very much alive after 9/11 saw their names and pictures mentioned as hijackers and protested that. Also if I recall correctly - as concerns the identification angle - relatives of some of the alleged hijackers, for instance those of Ziad Jarrah, offered to provide the DNA for identification purposes but were told that that was not needed.

Also, here's one person who was at one point named as a hijacker:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdul_Rahman_al-Omari

Clearly this identification is at best quite weak. That's even admitted by none other than the FBI chief Mueller ("They left no paper trail" or some such).

 
At 12 March, 2010 08:47, Blogger Boris Epstein said...

Here's a good one on Al-Omari:

9/11: The Frame Up
Of Abdulaziz Alomari

 
At 12 March, 2010 08:51, Blogger Paul said...

Here's a good one on Al-Omari:

9/11: The Frame Up
Of Abdulaziz Alomari


I'm glad you have a sense of humor Boris.

 
At 12 March, 2010 09:15, Blogger Dave Kyte said...

"Please explain to me, if 8 of these hijackers are supposedly still alive, and 9/11 truth could change the world, and proving these hijackers are alive would significantly boost your case, then why haven't a single one of them been interviewed by the movement?"

Yeah and you don't know Elvis is alive or dead, but any THINKING person would assume he is. Only a fool would think he is alive.

I don't know the Nigerian who sent me an email offering to split millions of dollars with me is NOT for real. But not being an idiot like you I will assume it is a scam, just like the alive hijacker bunk.

It's called being smart, you should try it sometime Boris.

 
At 12 March, 2010 09:22, Blogger angrysoba said...

Here's a good one on Al-Omari:

9/11: The Frame Up
Of Abdulaziz Alomari


Are you fucking kidding?

 
At 12 March, 2010 10:15, Anonymous KDLarsen said...

Wait, didn't one of the truthers take two weeks off, to go to Morocco (I think) and track down one of the 'still alive' hijackers?

 
At 12 March, 2010 10:21, Blogger Billman said...

bobBoris, you may think you're cordial and polite to everyone, but your snarky comments and an arrogant attitude do not mean you should be warranted with politeness in any reply to you in order for you actually acknowledge a post that debunks any of your claims. You're extremely childish when you're basically saying "you were mean to me, so your proof is a lie." When you were being snarky and impolite to begin with. If you think you weren't, then you're deluded.

And second, noone gives a fuck wether or not you reply. The truth of the facts presented does not change wether you acknowledge them or not. You refusal to respond because "your feelings got hurt" does not suddenly mean the towers actually WERE blown up with thermite. Or that the hijackers ARE alive. How pompous and unreasonable of you...

 
At 12 March, 2010 10:26, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Any idea why the FBI used a picture of an innocent instead of a picture of the real Waleed?

The ASAA interview was conducted in Casablanca.

ASAA: How did you find out that you were a suspect and accused of being an accomplice in the attacks on the World Trade Center
Waleed: I was in Marrakesh Morocco for four days after several flights between Morocco, France and Italy. A Saudi friend of mine here in Marrakesh contacted me and said that the ASAA printed my name and information about me.
At first I thought there was some mix-up of names and that somebody else had the same name as mine. But in the morning of Sunday last my friend called me to say that CNN had shown a picture of me. I was dumbfounded. I decided then to go back to Casablanca and get in contact with the Saudi embassy."

FBI must have been pretty desperate in the early days to throw the wrong picture out there. Some investigation work, eh?? LOL

Sounds like a case of mistaken patsy identity.


HOCKENBERRY: Do you think that Waleed and Wail, your brothers, were capable of being a part of this operation?

SALEH: (Through translator) In my judgment, impossible. I know them; I know their behavior.

Goes on to say they didn't have enough time to train to become pilots and we get ...

''To be very honest, neither one of them was very smart, nor very motivated to do anything,'' said Abdel Rahman. ''All of this is impossible for us to believe.''

I'd say mistaken patsy identity.

 
At 12 March, 2010 10:30, Anonymous Arhoolie said...

Yea,the same BBC that scrapped its David Frost interview with Benazir Bhutto just as the shit hit the fan.That BBC? You've got to love the faux exasperation pouring out of the Debunker Cult as the ham fisted whitewash of everything surrounding the hijackers plays out.And get a load of Bilbo Baggins compalining about impolite and snarky comments!!!!! Is there anything more absurd than a Debunker Cult acolyte whining about bad manners at the circle jerk?!?

 
At 12 March, 2010 10:45, Blogger Billman said...

Assfaggotio, your reading comprehension skills are worse than a chimpanzee's. I was saying "who gives a fuck if anyone here is snarky." Only you emotionally retarded troofers who can't handle an insult do.

The facts of wether anyone here is an asshole or not, do not change the evidence.

Boris Epstien being smug doesn't change the fact the hijackers ARE on the manifests, but not on the victims lists.

My being cynical doesn't change the fact that YES the NORAD timeline is inconsistant.

And you being a internet troll doesn't change the fact that you're clinically retarded and can't figure out a spacebar.

 
At 12 March, 2010 10:55, Blogger GuitarBill said...

Arseholie scribbles, "...Yea,the same BBC that scrapped its David Frost interview with Benazir Bhutto just as the shit hit the fan.That BBC? You've got to love the faux exasperation pouring out of the Debunker Cult as the ham fisted whitewash of everything surrounding the hijackers plays out.And get a load of Bilbo Baggins compalining about impolite and snarky comments!!!!! Is there anything more absurd than a Debunker Cult acolyte whining about bad manners at the circle jerk?!?"

Sorry, ass face, but you can't fake DNA evidence.

Are you trying to suggest that the coroners and forensic experts are in on "the conspiracy", too?

Tell us, Arseholie, did your parents have any children who lived?

 
At 12 March, 2010 10:56, Blogger Billman said...

Did I hurt your feelings, princess? Wanna make a come back or change the subject like you always do? Or is there too much sand in your vagina for you to cogitate a response?

 
At 12 March, 2010 11:17, Anonymous Arhoolie said...

Poor Bilbo.

 
At 12 March, 2010 11:25, Blogger Billman said...

Its ok, Arhoolie. You'll feel better when you go back to planning whatever federal building you troofers want to shoot up this week.

 
At 12 March, 2010 11:29, Blogger revid said...

Why doesn't DRG use all of that book money to pay for some decent dentures? Listen to the interview with the sound way up, his denture sucking is comical.

 
At 12 March, 2010 11:56, Blogger Lazarus Long said...

"Stupid or dishonest? You decide."\

Yes, yes you are, bore-ass.

 
At 12 March, 2010 12:05, Blogger Lazarus Long said...

"Arhoolie said...
Poor Bilbo."

Hey, assholio, have you ever wondered what life would be like if you had gotten enough oxygen when you were born?



Mhhh....


.
"the Debunker Cult"

Lather.

Rinse.

Repeat.

 
At 12 March, 2010 13:24, Anonymous Marc said...

See, this is why I only get my news from The Naked News. The only way nuts are involved is if I order the all male edition.

 
At 12 March, 2010 14:58, Anonymous sackcloth and ashes said...

Compare this statement by Boris ...

'Common names or not, the biggest problem - or one of the biggest - is that the people listed as hijackers and looking like whoever was on the photos of alleged hijackers, have since allegedly surfaced very much alive.'

With this:

'Mr B, I do not know if those people are still alive. Nor do I know if the story that there were people claiming to be erroneously identified as hijackers were (sic) correct to begin with.'

Mr Epstein admits that he doesn't actually know what the fuck he's talking about. Nicely done, Boris. You've just decided to confirm to us all that you're an ignorant cretin. Good skills.

 
At 12 March, 2010 15:04, Anonymous sackcloth and ashes said...

'Yea,the same BBC that scrapped its David Frost interview with Benazir Bhutto just as the shit hit the fan.'

Frost doesn't work for the BBC, you stupid cunt. He now broadcasts for Al-Jazeera. You've just demonstrated the same basic fact-checking skills you showed when you posed as 'A Real Veteran', the OIF veteran who fought in Iraq for three whole years.

Wondered why the Iranians haven't produced their 'proof' that Rigi (the Jundollah leader) is a CIA asset? Thought not.

 
At 12 March, 2010 15:15, Blogger b. j. edwards said...

Boris Epstein wrote,

"Also next time if you truly want to get your questions answered you will address me politely and actually make an effort to communicate your points."

Would you return the favor by not continually insulting our intelligence, Boris?

Also, how about vetting your sources before bringing debunked claims back? No one is really interested in rehashing it over year after year.

You would get more respect following those simple requests.

 
At 12 March, 2010 15:41, Blogger Billman said...

You know, troof-keteers... if you're so emotionally devastated when someone doesn't address you politely, you could always... go away.

But I have never once seen a debunker post "I will not address your claims until you adress me politely," to a troofer.

Its just a stalling tactic for you to not have to admit your ass was just debunked. Go whine about your feelings in group therapy...

 
At 12 March, 2010 17:18, Blogger Pat said...

Revid, I recall that Griffin mentioned in a speech in Japan that he was getting braces, so that may be what you're hearing there.

 
At 12 March, 2010 18:47, Blogger angrysoba said...

Patrick from Cincinatti: Btw I go by a different name at that other blog that you introduced me to. This is because I've had some bad experiences with truther psycho-stalkers like Boris Epstein.

You've got to love their latest discovery (from the mainstream media, naturally):

The CIA spiked French bread with LSD in 1951 ergo all conspiracy theories are true!

The premise is doubtful anyway but far more plausible then their usual febrile rantings that they recycle from garbage anti-semitic sites.

 
At 13 March, 2010 10:49, Anonymous Arhoolie said...

Poor Soldier Sad Sack.And then there's the "Angry and Subpar" commenter with the unremovable rose colored glasses.Yea,DogBoy,it's implausible that the CIA would do anything like that,ain't it?! D'oh! Perhaps you and the whackbar soldier can get together and chip in for a book or two on the depredations of the CIA over the last 50 years.There are plenty out there."Whiteout" by Alexander Cockburn is as good a place to start as any other station! Ga hey brofees!!

 
At 13 March, 2010 11:53, Anonymous sackcloth and ashes said...

'Poor Soldier Sad Sack.'

Is this your comeback from your fuck-up over Al-Jazeera?

'And then there's the "Angry and Subpar" commenter with the unremovable rose colored glasses.Yea,DogBoy,it's implausible that the CIA would do anything like that,ain't it?!'

Like what? Force Al-Jazeera to 'pull' an interview? Or make you think that Frost still works for the Beeb?

'D'oh! Perhaps you and the whackbar soldier can get together and chip in for a book or two on the depredations of the CIA over the last 50 years.There are plenty out there."Whiteout" by Alexander Cockburn is as good a place to start as any other station!'

Alexander Cockburn of Counterpunch? Yeah, fantastic researcher, not at all mental in the slightest. I was particularly struck by his claim that Norman Borlaug was responsible for mass murder, and that global warming is a hoax:

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20071105/cockburn

Actually, if I want to read histories of the CIA I'll stick with Tim Weinert or John Prados, or someone who actually knows what the fuck they're talking about.

BTW: I'm still waiting for all that 'evidence' the Iranians had linking Rigi with the CIA.

 
At 13 March, 2010 11:54, Blogger angrysoba said...

."Whiteout" by Alexander Cockburn is as good a place to start as any other station!

No it isn't because Alexander Cockburn thinks Truthers are nutters.

 
At 13 March, 2010 12:04, Anonymous sackcloth and ashes said...

If even Cockburn thinks you're a complete loon, you know you've hit rock bottom.

 
At 13 March, 2010 12:57, Anonymous Arhoolie said...

Poor Sackie and his angry pubmate."Whiteout" was written well before 9/11 happened and what's the difference what he thinks about 9/11? There is so much de-classified information and whistleblowing,not to mention victims stories,about the MK-ULTRA and Artichoke programs that for you to try and spin it as a Cockburn issue just illustrates your complete idiocy in general.Someone inform the Soldier Boyo that he proved he's a desperado when he threw John Prados into the mix.The guy has been at 9/11 conferences and clearly has a history of calling attention to the crimes of the US military-industrial complex and Imperial maneuvers around the world. Yes,we know Sackdiapers,you prefer your information lobotomized and cleaned up at Langley,you don't need to remind us.You probably still think Bob Woodward is some kind of muckraker too,right? Naive ain't even the owrd for a Bozo like you,ToiletBoy.

 
At 13 March, 2010 21:37, Blogger angrysoba said...

Naive ain't even the owrd for a Bozo like you,ToiletBoy.

"owrd" ain't even a owrd.

 
At 13 March, 2010 21:59, Blogger NoIdentity said...

I swear Russia Today is becoming "All Truther, all the time".

Yuri Bezmenov. Look up his interviews and lectures on youtube.

 
At 15 March, 2010 02:34, Blogger chava said...

I agree there is conjecture in both camps.

What Im waiting for is the liar/deniar group to fund their own 9 peer reviewed physicists to examine the WTC dust/powder and tell the world there is no trace of superthermite?

Whats the big deal? Throw a few dollars togther and do your homework. Im certain the Dr. Jones group would be more then accomodating. We are all waiting for the liars/deniars to pony up for the scientific research. Better yet, go ask any physicist if they will examine the WTC dust/powder for free. Im sure there are plenty willing to step forward and tell the world there is no explosive superthermite.

The fact is physics and engineering is not on your side. The credibility of Bazant, Gross and Sunder is gone along with them as well. Just simply call them and tell them you need some analysis of the WTC dust/powder. You know these guys will come to bat for you.

 
At 15 March, 2010 08:34, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Walt is such a cretin he thinks that John Prados is a truther. He also thinks I'm saying that the CIA is lily-white. I don't know what so say, except that creatures this stupid are usually turned into mutton chops after they die.

 
At 15 March, 2010 13:16, Anonymous Arhoolie the Cyber-Hero said...

John Prados is no weasely apologist for the murderous Imperialists,like Sackdoily.He has appeared at a 9/11 conference and since Sackmuffin has a bad case of name dropping he throws out names that he's not even sure what they are all about.Coming along quite nicely on your CIA there Elvis!!!

 
At 15 March, 2010 19:32, Blogger angrysoba said...

What Im waiting for is the liar/deniar group to fund their own 9 peer reviewed physicists to examine the WTC dust/powder and tell the world there is no trace of superthermite?



Why don't you write to this guy and ask him?

I can't guarantee that he won't just assume you're a crank and throw your letter in the bin, though. But that's the life you choose so you should have gotten used to that by now.

 
At 16 March, 2010 00:47, Blogger chava said...

Angry. You write to him. Its your camp, defend yourself and prove truthers wrong, be accountable. A professor of enviromental studies doesnt qualify. He isnt a physicist. You need someone who can separate, identify, qualify and test molecules. Then the data and processes needs to be independently peer reviewed, a total of 9 physicists would be acceptable.

The point being is YOU CAN'T get any groups of scientist to come forward on your behalf. YOU CAN'T get any credible engineers either.

The science isnt on your side.

 
At 16 March, 2010 04:49, Blogger angrysoba said...

You need someone who can separate, identify, qualify and test molecules.

Will a theologian do? Or perhaps an expert in Buddhism studies?

The point being is YOU CAN'T get any groups of scientist to come forward on your behalf. YOU CAN'T get any credible engineers either.


Credible engineers? Credible engineers don't need to spend their time debunking moronic nonsense.

What credible engineers do the Truthers have?

Richard Gage? No, he's a crappy architect. Gordon Ross? Sorry, wrong type of engineer. Jim Hoffman? A software engineer?

Eric Hufshmidtdtdtdtdtd? No, he's a software and a creepy holocaust-denying Jew-hating weirdo.

Steven Jones? Well, he oozes credibility, of course. I eagerly await his latest research on HAARP and chemtrails.

 
At 17 March, 2010 04:07, Anonymous sackcloth and ashes said...

'John Prados is no weasely apologist for the murderous Imperialists,like Sackdoily.'

No, he's a genuine scholar who checks his facts before he puts pen to paper.

'He has appeared at a 9/11 conference ...'

But isn't actually a truther (see link below):

http://www.tompaine.com/articles/2006/09/08/911_conspiracies_and_cons.php

I'll make this easy for you, because I know you have learning difficulties:

'y problems with the conspiracy theories are different. One is a question of focus, the other more political. In terms of focus, the 9/11 Truth Movement has largely steered clear of such outlandish attributions as the Elders of Zion, and they do aim properly at the Bush administration. But the theories largely postulate that the Bush White House either made 9/11 happen, or this president knew all about what impended and let 9/11 happen. Neither is likely in my view.'

The last sentence is a bit of a clue about whether Prados is a truther or not, isn't it?




'and since Sackmuffin has a bad case of name dropping'

Barry Jennings?

'he throws out names that he's not even sure what they are all about.'

Omar Saeed Sheikh? Coleen Rowley?

'Coming along quite nicely on your CIA there Elvis!!!'

I'm still waiting for all that evidence linking Abdolmalek Rigi to Langley, Walt. You keep dodging my requests for proof, because you know you have zip.

 
At 26 March, 2010 12:41, Blogger Timothy said...

I might be wrong, but how exactly is the evidence past even "bullshit madman ravings", nevermind "proof", that there were explosives used in a controlled demolition in any tower except WTC7 (which is about the only one which looks like a controlled demolition, and that doesn't even match up...)?

I've not really followed the conspiracy nutjobs, but I had at least figured blatant lies were in the minority...

 

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