Two JREFers Join Truth Action Forums...
And chaos starts erupting. It appears that somebody invited Orphia Nay and Oystein to join the debate over there. Oystein is strong on the technical aspects regarding the Millette study which debunked nanothermite, while Orphia Nay has excellent overall knowledge of the general Truther claims.
What I find amusing about the thread is how quickly the CT nonsense comes out. It is easy to forget that while the Truth Action folks recognize the transparent nuttery of Kevin Barrett and Kevin Ryan, they completely miss their own areas of confirmation bias.
For instance, Snowcrash is just a tad hyperbolic:
Sorry Orphia Nay, applicable as my quote may have been to the sorry state of a "truth" movement full of liars, kooks, frauds, con men, idiots and nitwits, I have no love for JREF either. Humankind is on the brink of collapse, on the cusp of irreversible environmental decline, we have lost all our civil rights, our privacy, our freedoms, and our children's children will live in a totalitarian dystopia, thanks to 9/11.All our civil rights?
Jon Gold is going to hate that I compare him to David Ray Griffin, but that's deserved when he writes nonsense like this:
One thing I've noticed that "debunkers" do is look at everything as if it exists in a vacuum. I look at everything in an accumulative light. SO MANY problems with the official account, SO MANY warnings that were coming in, SO MANY efforts to obfuscate, cover-up, hinder investigations, etc...Remember, Griffin loves to talk about his "cumulative" argument being like strands on a rope and not links in a chain, so that if one breaks, the whole thing doesn't fail. One wonders why anybody would bother making a rope out of weak strands, but the answer is quite simply that's all they have. Gold takes Grifter's argument a step further. Even if you debunk all his points, he still believes he has a case just because there are so many strands.
It's not hard to see that things will end pretty badly over there; if asked to guess I would say the over/under on the JREFers being banned is Thursday. There's already quite a bit of grumbling about them being allowed to post. Gold:
I love how ignored and censored whistleblowers don't concern you at all, or the fact that the 9/11 Commission was a farce. You would rather spend your time arguing with those fighting for justice and accountability. I do not understand that mentality at all.The "ignored and censored whistleblowers" include Patty Cassazza's mysterious roadside informant who claimed that the US government knew everything about the attacks including the date and method. Gold bitterly notes that I "debunked" that claim by saying that Patty was duped by a conman. But note the oddball response from the Truthers to that particular claim. Sibel Edmonds comes up with the LIHOP faction's dream witness and what happens? Complete and utter lack of curiosity about him or her. If I were a Truther, I'd be asking Patty about this person--was it a man or a woman? How old? Did he say what branch or agency of the government he was in? Can we get him on tape?
Why are these people here?
Note that when the credibility of the whistleblowers is brought up, Jon endorses the credibility of Patty:
Patty Casazza is both valid and relevant, and so is her claim.But nobody questions her claim. It's the whistleblower's claim that has to be assessed, and that's why the Truthers should be asking more questions, to establish his credibility as a witness.