Moron the Holocaust Deniers and 9-11 Deniers
This is becoming one of the more amazing aspects to the 9-11 Denial Movement and the Loosers. Here's another handy-dandy poll to let us know where they stand. The question: Was it wrong to question the Holocaust?
As of now, the pool is running 2-1 against. But check out some of these comments on the post:
Sorry if some people thought it made the truth movement look bad, that was not my intention, N however there is no denying that 9/11 is connected to it.
The Holocaust and 9-11 are connected? Get these various comments from different people:
I'm not denying that the Holocaust happened. I just think there might have been something fishy about it when it did occur.
It's not wrong to question the Holocaust. Just don't try and drag it around with the 9/11 truth movement. They have no connection.
well it's possible that Israel/Zionists was involved in 911 and they were involved with the holocaust, so there could be a connection.
I think all the huge events in the past few hundred years might be linked.
Yes, I seem to recall there were some Zionists involved with the Holocaust, as well. What was their role? Victims I believe?
And you know that the CT crowd is not going to leave alone that last sentence about how all the events of the past few hundred years are linked:
...THOUSANDS
A Denier with some connections and seeming sense steps in:
The connection with the Zionists, I agree with. But you start talking about Zionists being behind 9/11 and start talking about the Holocaust, and a lot of people will dismiss you and any evidence you have. Too many people don't have the distinction that Zionism is not Judaism. The Zionists have done a good job intertwining themselves with the Jewish faith. And has been posted numerous times here, there are Jews against Zionism.
But by a few posts later he's gone off the deep end:
Okay. Israel and the Mossad connection is seperate in most people's minds from Zionism. The misconception is Zionism = Judaism. That's all I'm saying. Don't get into a trap about Zionism with the unitiated. Once some one sees the evidence of 9/11 and wants to expose the truth, then bring up the dancing Israelis, the Israeli "art students," the Fox News report on Israeli spying, etc. Then you can move on to Zionism not being Judaism and talk about the Zionists. Once you get past the Zionists, then you can move on to the history of it, and talk about the Holocaust.
Good old NesNYC explains how all these events are related:
You're right, they are ABSOLUTELY connected in that the "Holocaust" was the outcome of a world war and 9/11 is the spark that will ignite the next world war. The same power player "banksters" that were involved in the creation of WW2 are the same people behind 9/11 and the coming WW3. To understand 9/11 fully, you must understand how WW2 happened and the mechanics of the "Holocaust" and how it has been used and manipulated to set up the Zionist state.
posted by Pat @ 9:10 AM
43 comments
43 Comments:
Too many people don't have the distinction that Zionism is not Judaism. The Zionists have done a good job intertwining themselves with the Jewish faith.
Except almost every Jew is a Zionist and Zionism is the idea that the Jews have a right to self-determination. They're intwined concepts.
The internet is not some European country that puts people in prison for disagreeing with the official version of the events of WWII. Stop acting like thats what you want because you really don't.
They're free to say what they say and we're free to show how utterly stupid it is. But everyone is not allowed their own version of history.
Some people seem to confuse freedom of speech with freedom from criticism.
Because most people have a moral compass, half a brain and no desire to hang out with paranoid racists.
And they have a desire to punch them in the face over and over and over again.
Joan:
Since when did you have dibs on labelling what the internet "is". You may have an opinion on what you feel it is, but that does not make it so. The internet is many different things to different people.
One of the beauties of the internet, IMO (notice that), is the freedom of speech that it allows.
The trouble is that alot of its users, IMO, have realized, and now abuse, the power of the internet that allows them to not only spout off their opinion, but also allows them to be openly racist, biggotted, and libel/slanderous to people. In the real world, none of these are tolerated, and IMO, they shouldn't be tolerated "online" either.
And the only way you can use the internet to avoid "guilt by association", is to cowardly hide behind the word "anonymous". You are guilty by association, of being a "Truther" are you not. If you aren't, there are lots who are, simply by hanging out at the LC forum, and posting in a positive fashion toward the movement there. I am "guilty by association" of being a "Debunker", by posting in a positive on this site. In fact, anyone who "hangs out" at a forum or blog, ie "a regular", and posts in keeping with the theme and or "code" of said blog or forum, is guilty by association.
And since you started giving out orders ("stop acting like thats what you want..."), let me add one for you,
STOP TELLING PEOPLE WHAT TO DO, it is not in keeping with your idea of the internet...:)
apathoid
Come to JREF, we need your input.
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=61633
Oh man that goddamn picture again.
Straws being grasped at comes to mind.
More on the holyco$t :D
Don't be afraid to question "offical" versions of "history." Once you know the facts behind the "facts" everything else falls into place.
The internet is not some European country that puts people in prison for disagreeing with the official version of the events of WWII.
False. Zundel was imprisoned in Canada for "Holocaust Denial" and then fled to the US where he was deported back to Canada and was then extradited to Germany for publishing on the Internet.
ihr.org
Except almost every Jew is a Zionist and Zionism is the idea that the Jews have a right to self-determination. They're intwined concepts.
No, Jews were terrorized into accepting Zionism which is contrary to Jewish teachings while in Diaspora. Some Jews even go so far as to call Zionism "Blasphemous."
Zionism is a political and for the most part atheistic movement funded by the world ruling class to divide Jews against other nations of the world. Their ultimate goal is the destruction of Judaism via the golden calf that is the Zionist state.
The vast majority of the basement dwellers that come out with anti-semitic CT nonsense would never have the balls to speak about it in public.
Oh yeah, clueless as charged. Ah.. Look here for example:
http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/mediaclips/index.cfm
I agree joanbasil! I'm not "denying" Jews died in detention centers during the war. I'm saying 6 million is a blatant exaggeration for political purposed. It is clearly evident that from 1 to 1.5 million Jews died at the hands of the Nazis and their Jewish/Zionist agents within the SS. These deaths were the result of disease, starvation and torture at the hands of the Judenrat.
Even in Israel, they cannot come up with the 6 million names as you point out. They never will because that figure was proved conclusively to be a lie.
A good startring point for the truth in the whole sordid ordeal can be found here:
Why Did the Heavens Not Darken? by Arno Mayer
(p 366)
... Many questions remain open ... All in all, how many bodies were cremated in Auschwitz? How many died there all told? What was the national, religious, and ethnic breakdown in this commonwealth of victims? How many of them were condemned to die a 'natural' death and how many were deliberately slaughtered? And what was the proportion of Jews among those murdered in cold blood among these gassed? We have simply no answers to these questions at this time.
Link, typo:
Why Did the Heavens Not Darken (Hardcover)
Yes he got queezy one day when brains and blood got on him, his own doctors witnessed this
More testimony that doesn't stand up to the facts like the human soap fable.
Joanbasil said:
there are many repeated names on the list, even names being repeated 5 or more times.
I wonder Joan, if it were a list of americans, how many times the name John Smith would show up....please!!!
It is clearly evident that from 1 to 1.5 million Jews died at the hands of the Nazis and their Jewish/Zionist agents within the SS.
That means none died in the camps - as that 1 to 1.5 million is how many died to the Einsatzgruppen. Unfortunately for you, they kept records of how many they killed and they weren't destroyed during the invasion by the Allies.
More testimony that doesn't stand up to the facts like the human soap fable.
Nesnyc doesn't understand that we don't rely solely on eyewitness testimony for the Holocaust. Nor does the child realize that because one thing was wrong, that doesn't mean that everything else is. In fact, Holocaust scholars brought the soap myth to light - not deniers. If they so wanted to suppress any mistakes they made, they would've kept this information to themselves.
Nesnyc argues just like a creationist. His idiotic theory (that the Holocaust was either not purposeful, or less people died) only survives in the supposed gaps of the "mainstream" idea. His own idea cannot stand on its own two feet, thus it is a failure.
Once you know the facts behind the "facts" everything else falls into place.
But you wouldn't know a fact if it smacked you in the ass, so why do you continue lecturing us? Everything the Holocaust deniers say has been debunked - both their information and methodology. Yet you cling to them like a remora to a dying shark.
Remember Demanjanjuk? The Israeli Supreme Court overturned the conviction because what the Holocaust survivors testified to about Demjanjuk could not possibly have been true.
Again, one mistake (half a century removed from the event) does not mean the entire event comes under question. Remember the child sex abuse "recovered memory" craze in the 80s? By yours and nesnyc's logic, there is no child sex abuse, since several of those cases were proven to be false memory. You ALSO ignore that most of the Holocaust survivors in that case did not recognize Demanjanjuk, only a few and their testimony fed off each other.
... Many questions remain open ... All in all, how many bodies were cremated in Auschwitz? How many died there all told? What was the national, religious, and ethnic breakdown in this commonwealth of victims? How many of them were condemned to die a 'natural' death and how many were deliberately slaughtered? And what was the proportion of Jews among those murdered in cold blood among these gassed? We have simply no answers to these questions at this time.
We don't know the exact numbers of people who died in World War II, but thanks to a little thing called population demographics we can get a fairly accurate picture of who died and how many of them.
If they had an exact number of how many died, that would be evidence of tampering. Even events nowadays we can't get the exact numbers of deaths - but we make accurate estimations. What nesnyc is impossible.
Everything the Holocaust deniers say has been debunked
Don't you mean everything regurgitated by the Holocaust Industry has been debunked?
but thanks to a little thing called population demographics we can get a fairly accurate picture
Absolutely, if you look at census figures for the time, 6 million Jews weren't even in all of Europe. Thanks for agreeing :)
Absolutely, if you look at census figures for the time, 6 million Jews weren't even in all of Europe. Thanks for agreeing :)
Uh 10 million were.
Well I guess he is a troll. What a shame.
Uh 10 million were.
Well I guess he is a troll. What a shame.
Sorry, meant "all of Germany." But your "10 million" figure is off by about 1/2 a million.
Go here for clarity:
JEWISH POPULATION OF EUROPE IN 1933
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See this is the thing. I'm not totally exactly right on their estimation, so I'm wrong.
Unfortunately, that's not how it works. You said 1 to 1.5 million died, why aren't your numbers exact? Why do the numbers of deniers change so much? Some say 4 million, others 200,000.
why aren't your numbers exact? Why do the numbers of deniers change so much?
As is the case with 9/11, the "official" sources also vary widely. And the [Revisionists] don't all claim to know exactly how many died all most are saying is that all figures differ from the official "6 million" tally.
A lot of Revisionists are Jewish themselves and in the case of Yad Vashem Holocaust center in Israel they have publicly stated that the 4 million supposedly dead in Auschwitz was a "Gross Exaggeration." I would hardly call them "deniers." They have correctly revised the figures and are no where near the "6 million" propagandized by the Zionist establishment.
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This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
They have correctly revised the figures and are no where near the "6 million" propagandized by the Zionist establishment.
Well, nesnyc again shows his gross ignorance of Holocaust scholarship.
The Russian propaganda plaque was never figured into the official "6 million". The total number of dead didn't change when the corrected plaque was put in place. The "four million dead" at Auschwitz never figured into the total dead from the Holocaust.
But again, I wouldn't suspect someone blinded by their hatred and ideology to know anything of scholarship, other that what he wishes to believe. In fact, if the plaque was figured in, the total dead would've been placed at 9 million for all the years until it was fixed.
Oh good lord... Nazinyc is using Mahmoud I'madinnerjacket as his avatar.
You're a disgusting waste of flesh, Nessie. You too, Joan.
Do mankind a favor, sign your donor cards and kill yourselves.
Ass kisser for Hitler... disgusting.
I do believe that the Auschwitz 4 million figure was used in the Nuremberg trials.
It wasn't.
If 1 million to 1.5 million Jews is the correct number, thats less than the number of Cambodians who were killed under Pol Pot.
It's not correct. You'd also have to ignore the five-six million other people killed in the extermination (how come you people seem to think only Jews died in this thing?).
The worst part is Nesnyc is an obvious antisemite but tries to rationalize himself as an "anti-Zionist". The only thing that makes other antisemites better than him is they admit to their hatred.
We should all be happy that Nesnyc and his ilk, are on the "truth" side. It guarantees they will be minimized, and ignored, which is whay we all hope...isn't it.
The worst part is Nesnyc is an obvious antisemite but tries to rationalize himself as an "anti-Zionist". The only thing that makes other antisemites better than him is they admit to their hatred.
Those blatent "anti-Semites" are usually Jews playing the role.
BTW, I'm not an anti-Semite in that I believe the Jews should stop killing the true Semites, the Arabs. That smear phrase has been twisted by the Zionists/Khazarian/Talmudic-Pharasis to mean what it doesn't. The Zionist state is the biggest anti-Semitic entity on the planet. The destruction of Lebanon and their bloody history is proof positive.
Maybe that explains the typing of simplistic rhetoric!
No, I'm actually talking down to you guys. I have to because a lot of this stuff is way over your head. KISS = Keep it simple stupid.
The concepts I present fry your circuit boards and must be kept at a simplistic and understandable level.
It’s like this, you guys are used to being conditioned by mainstream media sound bites and that’s the only way to reach you.
Just look at how you people spew 'idiot' and 'moron' when the concept breaks you emotionally and you have to resort to sound bites as a defense.
I believe the Jews should stop killing the true Semites, the Arabs.
Wow, another antisemitic idea. Nah, nessie you aren't an antisemite - even though you march out that stupid Arab idea that they're the true semites.
No, I'm actually talking down to you guys. I have to because a lot of this stuff is way over your head. KISS = Keep it simple stupid.
Hmmm someone who doesn't understand history in any way, shape, or form is keeping it simple for me?
(Anyone who believes anything the IHR puts out shouldn't ever insult others.)
Just look at how you people spew 'idiot' and 'moron' when the concept breaks you emotionally and you have to resort to sound bites as a defense.
Well, when we can't reach you with logic and evidence it gets sort of frustrating. You believe the continually debunked points of the IHR are historically sound - and you think that the Jews have no right to defend themselves (a War of Independence doesn't have to be fought against a colonial power).
At every turn you side with the pure antisemitic idea, that makes you an antisemite. The idea that the Arabs are the "true Semites" is nonsense. Next you'll buy into that bullcrap that the Palestinians are the Biblical Canaanites, so they have the ultimate claim to the land.
The concepts I present fry your circuit boards and must be kept at a simplistic and understandable level.
You don't seem to get this - you are the dumbest commenter on this blog. That's not some unsupported insult, every time you make a comment you prove it. You hold ideas that no person with any understanding of history or politics would hold - only people who have an irrational hatred and/or bias against a certain group.
We're all agreed that this piece of the history, the number, is not at all solid, right?
The only thing we're all agreed on is that you're retarded, but since you appear not to have read ANY of the posts on this thread (as evidenced by the pure ignorance of your second paragraph), it's not too surprising that you don't realize this. Just for your education, I'll rehash:
You can't rely on survivors,
Yes you can. Just like any victim or witness, their testimony is not 100% perfect but can deffinitely be used to establish the basic facts.
nor can you rely on the lists that include people who were not dead
Yes, you can. The average of such lists, when gathered from various sources, would never be more than a small percentage off from their estimate.
which are based on "testimonies," and which include names repeated multiple times.
Pick up a phone book and see how many times the same names are listed. Start with the last name "Lee".
I'm guessing you and nessie must have crawled out of the same abortion bucket?
Joan;
I am not qualified to debate or make statement on the accuracy of the number. I take it that those that have put the number out there, are.
As for the multiple names thing, do I have to say it again...
HOW MANY JEWISH EQUIVELANTS TO JOHN SMITH were on the list. Because a name is on there multiple times, means nothing, except that two or more people with THE SAME NAME were killed. THIS WOULD BE ALL MORE LIKELY in the Jewish world, as the list of given names to choose from are much more limited (how many Jordan Goldstein's have you heard of).
Your argument spouts the same flawed logic that is used by CTers in the "Hijackers are still alive" theory (a very silly theory).
oh, someone named Walleed Al-Shehri came to BBC and said..."it wasnt me", so hey, he is still alive, so the hijackers never died.
Walleed and Al-Shehri are two of the most common arab names in the arab world.
How many Joans are there in the world?
Well, are we all agreed that there is no good evidence for "6 million Jews were deliberately killed by the Nazis in concentration camps?"
As a lifelong student of history, I would never agree with such a ridiculously stupid claim.
Mostly because six million weren't killed in camps (about a third were killed by the death squads in Eastern Europe).
There's a convergence of evidence that leads us to a range of deaths (it'd be suspicious if we had an exact figure) in the Holocaust.
Why do you people only focus on the Jews? Five-six million non-Jews died in it, as well.
Why do you people only focus on the Jews? Five-six million non-Jews died in it, as well.
Yes Nessie why is that? It's always about teh jooos. What about everyone else?
As I said above, I read it and am asking what others know. What I read was that there are other identifiers (like the town/city/village someone was from) that make it clear these are the same names repeated multiple times.
Ah. And that, ofcourse, must be why you're so eager to document your "sources", eh?
I'm not going to deny the same name may appear on the list twice. That sort of thing happens. The question is, how OFTEN does it happen? Even if every single name appeared twice, you'd still end up with roughly 3 million dead. For your and non-sync's claims to be correct, every name would have to appear at least 4 times. That's just plain silly. So, unless you can link to a relevant source, or provide the name of an offline book or article which supports your "research", don't expect us to put any credibility on your arguments.
Joan, I've studied World War II for as long as I can remember. It is the subject I know the most about, and I have never seen anything that causes the numbers in the Holocaust to come under question.
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