Wednesday, October 04, 2006

The Six Million Person Question

This is a bit off topic, but if the Supreme Court can say what the constitution is, then I can say what this blog is (as long as I don't tick off Pat too much). Mark Bowden, the author of Black Hawk Down, and more recently Guests of the Ayatollah, has a great editorial today in the Wall Street Journal on Ahmadinejad and the Holocaust. These are both subjects that come up a lot here, and besides, this paragraph has a great tie-in to 9/11 denial (emphasis added):

The president of Iran is a man for whom facts are mere fodder for political purposes, but there is little political advantage in making a fool of yourself on a world stage. So he has now retreated to the last refuge of all intellectual scoundrels, calling for "more research." And he has adopted a slightly different critical tack, which he repeated in numerous forums during his recent trip to New York. In Time it went like this: "I said that during World War II, around 60 million were killed. All were human beings and had their own dignities. Why only six million?"

Hey, we are "just asking questions".

13 Comments:

At 04 October, 2006 16:40, Blogger The Artistic Macrophage said...

If I say too much I might bring down the wrath of Nessie...lol

TAM

 
At 05 October, 2006 05:40, Blogger JoanBasil said...

James,
You do know that Ahmadinejad's remarks about Israel are totally misrepresented in the US media, don't you? (And why is that? Our media is all on the same page telling us lies.) When he says Israel should be wiped off the map, he's not saying something new for Iranian leaders. Ayatollah Khomeini said the same thing, i.e., that Israel is a fabricated state. He's not saying kill all the Israelis; he's talking about the principle of "self-determination" for the people of that region. (I know this from an Iranian reporter who was on C-SPAN's Washington Journal a couple months ago.)

Regarding the Holocaust, clearly he's talking about the anti-freedom of speech laws in some countries. Those laws are an abomination and a disgrace. You can't believe in freedom and feel OK about putting people in prison for writing or speaking about events of 60 years ago. I'm sure the people running our government would love to have those laws about the events of 9/11 and we would be a less free people.

 
At 05 October, 2006 06:57, Blogger Alex said...

You do know that Ahmadinejad's remarks about Israel are totally misrepresented in the US media, don't you?

Only if by "misrepresented" you mean "translated accurately into English". Ofcourse, you're right, his original words are, most of the time, not in English.

(And why is that? Our media is all on the same page telling us lies.)

No, it's because they want us to understand what he said, instead of having to learn to read Arabic.

When he says Israel should be wiped off the map, he's not saying something new for Iranian leaders.

So the fact that it's not new makes it ok? Wow. That's awesome! Al I gotta do is threaten your life long enough for it to become normal, and then you won't care any more!

He's not saying kill all the Israelis; he's talking about the principle of "self-determination" for the people of that region.

Destroy Israel = Self Determination.

Got it, thanks for teaching me Orwellian, Joan.

Regarding the Holocaust, clearly he's talking about the anti-freedom of speech laws in some countries.

"There was no holocaust" = "we should reform hate speech laws".

And this coming from a country where insulting Islam can get you legally executed.

Wow, this Orwellian speak just gets cooler and cooler!

Those laws are an abomination and a disgrace. You can't believe in freedom and feel OK about putting people in prison for writing or speaking about events of 60 years ago.

Wanna bet? I have no problem with arresting people for peeing in the gene pool.

I'm sure the people running our government would love to have those laws about the events of 9/11 and we would be a less free people.

Ironic that the US is one of the few countries that doesn't have those laws, yet you and your buddies like to call it a "Fascist State", huh?

You clowns must have REALLY taken 1984 to heart.

 
At 05 October, 2006 09:07, Anonymous Anonymous said...

...Ahmadinejad's remarks about Israel are totally misrepresented in the US media...

Are they also misrepresented by Al-Jazeera?

Ahmadinejad said, "There is no doubt that the new wave (of attacks) in Palestine will soon wipe off this disgraceful blot (Israel) from the face of the Islamic world."

Seems pretty clear, Ahmadinejad is talking about the military destruction of Israel. Not just the state of Israel, but also the people who live there:

"The Islamic umma (community) will not allow its historic enemy to live in its heartland," he said in the fiery speech that centred on a "historic war between the oppressor and the world of Islam".

Again, none of this is from a western source - it's from Al-Jazeera.

What about his holocaust denial? I would heartily agree with him if he were merely protesting Europe's speech codes. Stupidity like Holocaust denial shouldn't be censored. I think stupidity should be kept out in the open, where people can point and laugh and say, "yep. that's pretty stupid."

So does Ahmadinjad really believe that the Holocaust is a myth, or is he just slyly questioning censorship laws? Ask Al-Jazeera.

"They have fabricated a legend under the name Massacre of the Jews, and they hold it higher than God himself, religion itself and the prophets themselves."

Seems pretty clear.

A final quote from the esteemed president of Iran:

"We did not have a revolution in order to have democracy."

 
At 05 October, 2006 11:33, Blogger JoanBasil said...

He's not saying "kill all the Israelis." Where did he ever say that? The Montenegrans voted to secede from Yugoslavia/Serbia and that was a good thing that they had the right to do that. The people living in Palestine should have had self determination after the fall of the Ottoman Empire. It was their land.

The term "The Holocaust" relating only to Jews is not going to hold up. Sorry, but thats another instance of Ahmadinejad being correct when he asks for how long the whole world will go along with the rhetoric of a very small group, the white leaders of Europe and the US. The whole of World War II was a holocaust; in the interviews I've read or seen, Ahmadinejad always brings up that almost 60 million died in WWII.

 
At 05 October, 2006 11:36, Blogger JoanBasil said...

I think the Iranians had the revolution to get rid of the Shah and his dynasty permanently.

 
At 05 October, 2006 11:42, Blogger telescopemerc said...

He's not saying "kill all the Israelis." Where did he ever say that?

"There is no doubt that the new wave (of attacks) in Palestine will soon wipe off this disgraceful blot (Israel) from the face of the Islamic world."

Yeah, right. He just wants the Palestinians to ask nicely.

This is beyond lame, Joan. This is the doublespeak crappolla that people on your side of the fence get all huffy about. Except in this case its real.

 
At 05 October, 2006 12:03, Blogger Sword of Truth said...

Those laws are an abomination and a disgrace. You can't believe in freedom and feel OK about putting people in prison for writing or speaking about events of 60 years ago.

Ahem... Joanielovesnazis...

Actually it's already well established in the laws of nearly every western democracy that lying has legal consequences. You can't accuse someone of stealing your cookies of you know full well they're still in the jar in your kitchen. That's filing a false report, libel and defamation of character right there. You can't tell people you're a police officer if you aren't one. Even if you're only doing it to impress chicks at a party.

No one is stopping anyone from discussing The Holocaust. There are thousands of books, films and television shows on the subject.

You're just not allowed to lie about it.

 
At 05 October, 2006 12:13, Blogger The Artistic Macrophage said...

Joan:

SO you are defending a man who wants to see the nation of Israel distroyed, but you kick up stink and whine and complain when america talks of sanctions or controlling Iran's race for a WMD. Nice to see your patriotism go to good use Joan. Maybe you should move to Iran.

TAM

 
At 05 October, 2006 12:28, Anonymous Anonymous said...

He's not saying "kill all the Israelis." Where did he ever say that?

No, he just wants to destroy their country. He chooses his words carefully, he's not an idiot.

I approach his words with the same skepticism as I would with any politician. You have to read between the lines, sometimes.

The Montenegrans voted to secede from Yugoslavia/Serbia and that was a good thing that they had the right to do that.

They didn't have the right, afterwards, to say Yugoslavia/Serbia should be destroyed.

The people living in Palestine should have had self determination after the fall of the Ottoman Empire. It was their land.

The ownership of that land has been in dispute since before the Romans. Just about anywhere you live, somebody lived there before you. There's no reason the Palestinians and Jews can't co-exist peacefully in that region, except that the Palestinians refuse to compromise. If third graders were in charge of the area they'd figure out a way to work it out.

The whole of World War II was a holocaust; in the interviews I've read or seen, Ahmadinejad always brings up that almost 60 million died in WWII.

Recently he's backed off his stronger remarks where he clearly indicates his disbelief in the Holocaust.

"If somebody in their country questions God, nobody says anything, but if somebody denies the myth of the massacre of Jews, the Zionist loudspeakers and the governments in the pay of Zionism will start to scream."

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. He doesn't think the Holocaust didn't happen anymore, he just doesn't think it's that big of a deal. War is an atrocity, true. Surely you don't dispute that the wholesale slaughter of millions of innocent noncombatants represents something even more montstrous?

 
At 05 October, 2006 17:11, Blogger Alex said...

Fighting a war to control a country is one thing - attempting to wipe out an entire race or religion is something completely different. You can't compare the two. War might be horrible, but genocide is pure evil.

Although you're right to an extent Joan - the Jews weren't the only target of the holocaust. Hitler also targeted Slavs, Gipsies, and homosexuals. Your buddy Ahmadinejad only wants to slaughter Jews and homosexuals.

 
At 06 October, 2006 05:15, Blogger JPSlovjanski said...

Joan, Montenegrins are Serbs, as countless historical Montenegrin figures, particularly their royalty, always claimed. Their separation was due to massive pressure and money coming in from foreign sources, most notably Soros. Strange that so many of you democrats(I'm pretty sure you have admitted to being one) hate Bush for invading nations but say nothing about Soros deciding elections in other countries by using money to buy off corrupt elements.

And Alex, uh..not to be a dick or anything but in Iran they speak FARSI, not Arabic.

 
At 06 October, 2006 09:50, Blogger Alex said...

Actually, they speak:

Persian and Persian dialects 58%, Turkic and Turkic dialects 26%, Kurdish 9%, Luri 2%, Balochi 1%, Arabic 1%, Turkish 1%, other 2%

:)

I was using Arabic as a generalization. And yes, I understand it's wrong.

 

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