Friday, January 15, 2010

Truthers Infiltrated by Gubmint?

This post at Raw Story is attracting a lot of attention.

In a 2008 academic paper, President Barack Obama's appointee to head the Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs advocated "cognitive infiltration" of groups that advocate "conspiracy theories" like the ones surrounding 9/11.

Cass Sunstein, a Harvard law professor, co-wrote an academic article entitled "Conspiracy Theories: Causes and Cures," in which he argued that the government should stealthily infiltrate groups that pose alternative theories on historical events via "chat rooms, online social networks, or even real-space groups and attempt to undermine" those groups.


Of course if you read deeper, the idea is that kooks only get information from kook sources, and that the government's efforts to counter those sources is doomed to failure because kooks will discount any information provided by the government.

The paper itself, or an early draft, can be downloaded here. The problem I see is that Sunstein appears to believe some of the wilder poll results out there are valid, like the claim that 36% of Americans believe the government actually participated in the attacks or at a minimum did nothing to stop them. But of course these questions are loosely worded; did the government do anything to stop the attacks? Not really, but that doesn't mean that they knew about them beforehand.

But yes, I do suspect that the government has infiltrated the Truthers. Let the finger-pointing begin!

110 Comments:

At 15 January, 2010 09:30, Anonymous New Yorker said...

Dammit Pat, you just blew the cover on Operation Toadstool!

Back to the drawing board it is....

 
At 15 January, 2010 10:05, Anonymous Patrick Curley, Coward. said...

Dorker, the article specifically cites 'cognitive' infiltration. You, Lazarus, Pat, and JamesB have nothing to worry about. Go back to the sandbox and be quiet.

 
At 15 January, 2010 10:34, Anonymous TV said...

Well, the idea of the paper is correct - twoofer idiots will only get their information from twoofer sources, and discount anything else out of hand.
This is quite self-evident.

 
At 15 January, 2010 10:40, Anonymous Too much TV said...

Is NIST a twoofer source? How do they explain a building with 83 columns falling un-resisted, even after saying that it shouldn't have fallen at gravitational acceleration? Can you point out the passage in their report, TV? You'd be the first.

 
At 15 January, 2010 10:44, Anonymous Arhoolie said...

"Did the government do anything to stop the attacks? Not really..." Coming along quite nicely on bass there,Pat!!!

 
At 15 January, 2010 10:45, Blogger Neighborhood Rationalist said...

If they actually had faith in their own worldview, this should be the best thing ever - they should look forward to having thousands of converts from Spooks who came to disrupt meetings, only to end up learning The Troof!

Of all the ways "the government" could go about engaging truthers, shouldn't out and out debate be exactly what they want?

 
At 15 January, 2010 11:06, Blogger Lazarus Long said...

"Is NIST a twoofer source?"

No.


"How do they explain a building with 83 columns falling un-resisted"

It didn't.


"after saying that it shouldn't have fallen at gravitational acceleration?"

It didn't.

" Can you point out the passage in their report, TV?"

Do your own fucking research, you gibbering tree squirrell.

 
At 15 January, 2010 11:25, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"If they actually had faith in their own worldview, this should be the best thing ever - they should look forward to having thousands of converts from Spooks who came to disrupt meetings, only to end up learning The Troof!"

Ah, but one of the magics of CTers is that the believe that government "operatives" or whatever they're calling them this week are so corrupt as to be uncorruptible from their newly corrupt positions.

 
At 15 January, 2010 11:29, Anonymous Arhoolie said...

Honestly Pat,are you guys really going down this road? It's not like the guy is hiding his philosophy or anything.What's next,you're going to eat the Salisbury Cathedral with a spoon? I'm beginning to think that your Cult is as dumb as they come+Nico Haupt.

 
At 15 January, 2010 12:09, Anonymous ConsDemo said...

I'm beginning to think that your Cult is as dumb as they come+Nico Haupt.

Sorry, fruitcake, "cults" are fringe elements such as your own. According to even the twoof movement's load-question polls, 95% of the population doesn't buy the twoofer claim of an "inside job."

Yeah, Rawstory article will get the twoofers buzzing because 1) it will fuel their paranoid fantasies but more importantly, 2) suggest someone is actually paying attention to them, even if no one really is.

 
At 15 January, 2010 12:17, Blogger pdoherty76 said...

The governement has infiltrated the truthers. We all know who those people are. Nico is one for a start, and he is your best friend isn't he Pat?

Gravy is almost certainly working for the government, although as a paid debunker.

 
At 15 January, 2010 12:29, Blogger Dave Kyte said...

"Yeah, Rawstory article will get the twoofers buzzing because 1) it will fuel their paranoid fantasies"

And doesn’t cost a penny. Just put the story out there and watch the loons shit their pants. And what are the truthers worried about? According to them they have the will of the people, hard facts and solid logical argument.

Of course we all know that is as big a fantasy as the controlled demolition thing, if they’re not hatted by the American people, they’re laughed at. They sure don't have any real experts of value to depend on, The rank in file is a very pitiful group of brain dead losers.

 
At 15 January, 2010 12:36, Blogger Lazarus Long said...

"pdoherty76 said...
The governement has infiltrated the truthers. We all know who those people are. Nico is one for a start, and he is your best friend isn't he Pat?

Gravy is almost certainly working for the government, although as a paid debunker"

Yeah, pdoughboy, they know where you live, they have your phone tapped, they follow you onto the bus when your going to work at the local fast food joint and they post insane Truther nonsense on blogs using your name.

MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!!!!

 
At 15 January, 2010 12:41, Anonymous New Yorker said...

Nico is one for a start, and he is your best friend isn't he Pat?

Isn't it cute how pissy the "truthers" get about Nico?

Nico might be government disinfo. I mean, he's a lot more intelligent and coherent that the rest of you.

 
At 15 January, 2010 13:26, Anonymous Malarkey Roberts said...

More wordy nonsense from the idiots...and if Mark Roberts is on the payroll, they're certainly not getting their money's worth from that arrogant, ineffective troll. Might as well solicit help from Pat Curley and James Bennett.

 
At 15 January, 2010 13:27, Anonymous JamesB a Coward said...

But they can't all be as articulate as Lazarus Long, can they? Sigh...

 
At 15 January, 2010 13:34, Anonymous Arhoolie said...

You mean Gravy,With the Exploding Paint Chip on his shoulder? And give dumbass NY,er some credit,he's able to burrow even deeper and wider with his completely ridiculous statements.In his world,Nico Haupt is "intelligent and coherent".Bozo,if you were on my squad you'd be in plain clothes with an "ankle injury".Strange cult you are in,your fellow acolytes don't even squeak when you make your absurd thoughts public.Jesus,Mary and Joseph you are freakin' stupid!!

 
At 15 January, 2010 13:37, Anonymous Arhoolie said...

Yeah, some of you may be idiots, but guess what, I'M A BIGGER IDIOT! So take that dumbunkers!

 
At 15 January, 2010 13:41, Anonymous TV said...

@Too much TV said...
Thank you for proving my point :) You dismiss the NIST report out of hand, because it doesn't explain a few things that weren't there. For example, building 7 didn't fall on it's own, it had a fire going inside.

That's like asking where in the textbook on biology it is explained and proven that Earth is round, and since it isn't there, you'd claim evolution must be also wrong.

Adult world just doesn't work that way. If you can't understand that you shouldn't be on the internet without supervision.

 
At 15 January, 2010 13:51, Anonymous TV rots TV's Brain said...

"For example, building 7 didn't fall on it's own, it had a fire going inside."

Brilliant research! Now can you point to where the Gravitational Acceleration was reached in NIST's simulations? At what point in the collapse did those OTHER 82 columns fail? C'mon TV! Show the "debunkers" how it's done, tiger!
You'll earn a guided tour from Mark Roberts...of the male brothel he cleans up on Monday mornings...

 
At 15 January, 2010 14:00, Anonymous New Yorker said...

Nico Haupt is "intelligent and coherent".

He is. He makes you idiots cry. He's been playing your idiotic gang like a fiddle for years.

 
At 15 January, 2010 14:01, Anonymous New Yorker said...

Now can you point to where the Gravitational Acceleration was reached in NIST's simulations?

Isn't it hilarious when "truthers" pretend to know anything about physics?

 
At 15 January, 2010 14:07, Anonymous Proven right yet again said...

"Isn't it hilarious when "truthers" pretend to know anything about physics?"

...Almost as hilarious as watching Dorker squirm and flee like a coward from answering the simplest questions. Same with Pat, same with James, on and on forever. Please stay tuned for much, much more of this, friends.

 
At 15 January, 2010 14:10, Blogger Lazarus Long said...

"Brilliant research!"

Hey, Krazee, why do you keep using that phrase?

What is a sane person supposed to do, post a Youtube link or something?

 
At 15 January, 2010 14:10, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Gravitational Acceleration, lads. Accept it, explain it, or flee in cowardice.

Let the fleeing begin!

 
At 15 January, 2010 14:13, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"What is a sane person supposed to do, post a Youtube link or something?"

-If that's your version of 'research', Lazarus, then go ahead. I certainly wouldn't want to suggest anything that's obviously way beyond your ability. Sure--post a youtube that tells us when and how the GA occurred in NIST's simulations. Be specific. No partial credit for being your usual idiot self. Go!

 
At 15 January, 2010 14:15, Anonymous Shart Roberts said...

Be careful what you commit to, though, Lazarus. Everyone knows you won't be posting anything meaningful. You remind me of Pat Curley and Mark Roberts.

 
At 15 January, 2010 14:21, Blogger Lazarus Long said...

"Proven right yet again said...
"Isn't it hilarious when "truthers" pretend to know anything about physics?""

It's a scram. Considering how pig ignorant Twoooofers™ really are.

:...Almost as hilarious as watching Dorker squirm and flee like a coward from answering the simplest questions."

So, fucktard, when are you actually, you know, going to ask a question?

 
At 15 January, 2010 14:22, Blogger Lazarus Long said...

"Anonymous said...
Gravitational Acceleration, lads. Accept it, explain it, or flee in cowardice.

Let the fleeing begin!"

Could someone translate that into Sane, please?

 
At 15 January, 2010 14:23, Blogger Lazarus Long said...

"If that's your version of 'research', Lazarus, then go ahead."

Ain't mine, fucktard. it's yours.

Learn it love it live it.

As the elbow licking retard you are.

 
At 15 January, 2010 14:31, Anonymous TV said...

@TV rots TV's Brain said...
I find your often somewhat less tempting than you probably imagine. Don't think that because you root to see the inside of a male brothel everyone else (or indeed, anyone else) wants the same.

As a side note, I do find it rather sad that not even prostitutes of either sex will have you, but that's what you get for being a twoofer, I guess.

 
At 15 January, 2010 14:42, Anonymous New Yorker said...

...Almost as hilarious as watching Dorker squirm and flee like a coward from answering the simplest questions. Same with Pat, same with James, on and on forever. Please stay tuned for much, much more of this, friends.

Um, what question?

Gravitational Acceleration, lads. Accept it, explain it, or flee in cowardice.

Yes, I accept that gravitational acceleration is a constant on this planet. The towers' collapses were accelerated by gravity. What point are you trying to make?

 
At 15 January, 2010 14:48, Anonymous Patrick from Cincinnati said...

Jesus fucking Christ, is gravity back in play?

 
At 15 January, 2010 14:51, Anonymous Malarkey Roberts said...

Read above for the best the debunkers have to offer, folks. I have taught them well, now see the results.

 
At 15 January, 2010 15:16, Blogger Lazarus Long said...

"Malarkey Roberts said...
Read above for the best the debunkers have to offer, folks. I have taught them well, now see the results."

What questions, Krazee?

 
At 15 January, 2010 15:55, Blogger Triterope said...

Jesus fucking Christ, is gravity back in play?

Yeah, it looks like the Twoofkiddies are in reruns again.

 
At 15 January, 2010 16:52, Blogger pdoherty76 said...

Triterope:

ME AND YOU, A ONE ON ONE MODERATED DEBATE ON THE NIST WTC7 FINAL REPORT. YOU GAME???

Of course you aren't.

 
At 15 January, 2010 17:04, Anonymous ConsDemo said...

pdoherty76, why do you need a "moderated debate," just spew your usual twoofer drivel, we've heard it all before. I also hate to break this to you, but you aren't important enough for anyone to want to moderate a debate between you and anyone else.

Btw, have any women under 300 pounds responded your to personal ad?

 
At 15 January, 2010 17:27, Blogger pdoherty76 said...

Your fear of debating me has been duly noted.

Debunkers won't touch the wtc7 final report. I don't blame them.

 
At 15 January, 2010 18:18, Anonymous Marc said...

Alright, I'm a government plant.

I work for the E.I.E.I.O, my cover name is Old McDonald.

My job is to spread the stupidest theories (Nano-thermite, WTC7 was a controlled demo, Pentagon was hit by a missile.

The problem is that no theory is too stupid. The guys at Langley and I are now trying link the attacks to Kermit the Frog.

 
At 15 January, 2010 18:20, Blogger Triterope said...

ME AND YOU, A ONE ON ONE MODERATED DEBATE ON THE NIST WTC7 FINAL REPORT. YOU GAME???

Sorry kid, that's not my job. The Cognitive Infiltration Program hired me only to denigrate 9-11 Truthers, not debate them. I get a bonus every time I call one fuckhead."

Tell ya what, I'll check with HR and see who's got culpability for this case in whatever jerkwater quadrant of England you live in, and get back to you. Fuckhead.

 
At 15 January, 2010 18:44, Blogger pdoherty76 said...

I understand your fear Triterope.

All you have is insults because you know you have no evidence.

Tell your JREF buddies that I will debate any of them, including the big guns, on the wtc7 final report.

You see, while I hae been away I have been doing a lot of work on it. ;-)

 
At 15 January, 2010 18:49, Anonymous While I've Been Away! LMMFAO said...

Fag ;-)

 
At 16 January, 2010 04:18, Blogger Triterope said...

All you have is insults because you know you have no evidence.

Boy, you don't know anything about government work, do you?

Tell your JREF buddies that I will debate any of them, including the big guns, on the wtc7 final

I'm not your fucking secretary. The "paid debunkers" -- whom you had no difficulty identifying previously in this thread -- are well-known and easy to contact. Of course, we both know you don't really want a debate, and this is just some 14-year-old tactic of harassing random passersby so you can claim victory to... well, I'm not sure exactly.

P.S.: You're a fuckhead.

 
At 16 January, 2010 04:31, Anonymous Sword of Truth said...

Tell your JREF buddies that I will debate any of them, including the big guns, on the wtc7 final report.

You already have, Paul. You debated them and had you ass handed to you. And when things didn't go your way, you started acting like a spoiled 4 year old girl and got your dumb ass banned from JREF.


...more than 20 times on 20 different sock puppet accounts.

You lost. Deal with it.

 
At 16 January, 2010 04:47, Blogger Lazarus Long said...

"pdoherty76 said...
I understand your fear Triterope."

You misunderstand.

They're laughing at you.

 
At 16 January, 2010 06:09, Blogger nico said...

Actually the [outdated] wikipedia "news", that Obama Admin allegedly infiltrates the Orwellian Untruther Movement, is the only good news about this GOV, which is in the hand of europe/kazachstan, since the 'staff' was selected in February 2007.

Of course it appeals to their paranoia, because they believe in the brainwashed "inside job"-meme, instead of waking up all the f*k together on european electronic defense Industry around EADS, Thales and co, who also logically "could have hired AQ", to fulfill their plans. PS: Nothing is a conspiracy, it's all about BUSINESS
I hope 99% of the DUMBTRUTHLING CULT Gets jailed and ends up in Gitmo anyway

see also
nicointelpro awards of the [post 9/11-]2000s decade
http://justpaste.it/2000s

regards,
nico haupt aka nicomedy2010 aka nicointelpro etc.. ;

comedian, media scientist and musician ;
http://soundcloud.com/ewing2001


PS2: Obama's SDI 2009 Darth Vader Cabinet Team: Charles F. Bolden, Jr. (NASA, Free Electron Laser Paper 1994, Alliant Techsystems Inc); Jon Huntsman (Reagan-SDI-Republican); Lt. General Raduege/CSIS, Eric Shinseki ['Objective Force' 99/FCS/Honeywell], Michael Hayden/CIA, James L. Jones [ACUS/Aspen Society, Chevron], Susan Rice [Brookings Institution], Peter R. Orszag [Brookings Institution], X. Becerra [Aspen], Michele Flournoy [Aspen], Den Blair [Iridium Satellite LLC/BinLadin Group], J. Holdren [Lawrence Livermore, Lockheed,Tsinghua University/DEW], Chu [Lawrence Berkeley], Gelbard [Paris Club], Eric S. Lander [MIT Center for Genome Research/fellowship foundation], NASA Administrator Michael Griffin [InQTel/CIA], Arne Duncan [Aspen], Ray LaHood [republican], Hillary Clinton ["china connection"]; etc...

 
At 16 January, 2010 06:10, Blogger nico said...

forgot this link. Ps: rawstory stinks and is run by coOpted gay-culturists ;

 
At 16 January, 2010 06:12, Blogger nico said...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cass_Sunstein# [last paragraph] ;http://ff.im/ektqM

 
At 16 January, 2010 07:53, Blogger Dave Kyte said...

"..Almost as hilarious as watching Dorker squirm and flee like a coward from answering the simplest questions."

It's more like mild confusion induced by a statement from physics ill literate pinhead asking a very stupid question. a WTF moment, Yes we (smart people) know that in a fire induced collapse some thing will fall at gravitational acceleration. We know that but how does that imply a controlled demolition?

What is stunning is a grown person like yourself would NOT know that, but, hey we know there are stupid people in the world and being a truther you must be one of them, after all you bought into the controlled demolition thing.

It is hilarious when a simpleton chants some small factoid as if it means something incredible, but fatuous people are easily impressed and duped by conspiracy theorist types.

 
At 16 January, 2010 08:21, Blogger Lazarus Long said...

"What is stunning is a grown person like yourself...."

That's a big assumption there, Dave.

 
At 16 January, 2010 10:07, Blogger Dave Kyte said...

To me most of the questions truthers ask are on par with the stupid questions we hear from creationist. Like "If man evolved from apes, why are there still apes?"

You may have been told there are no stupid questions but that was a lie. Some questions are quite stupid, and explaining the obvious answer would involve lots of time and typing in an attempt to enlighten someone who lack the ability to understand the answer. All you get back is the glassy eyed look of the idiot and a repeating of the same stupid question.

The best you can do is pat the fool on the head and tell them to come back when they grow a brain.

 
At 16 January, 2010 10:48, Anonymous New Yorker said...

Dave Kyte,

I'm most amused by the fact that a "truther" can argue that warnings about an imminent attack were ignored, and then moments later babble about thermite and how bin Laden isn't wanted by the FBI. Brian Good does this all the time.

Either they're too stupid to see the inherent contradictions in these two views, or they themselves don't believe the "truther" talking points and are just hedging their bets.

It sure isn't a ringing endorsement of the intellectual strength of the movement.

 
At 16 January, 2010 12:56, Anonymous Arhoolie said...

....and then Nico said and then Dave Kyte said,and then New Yorker said and then PornBoy said and then Billman said and then Troy said...you get the point! The Debunker Cult:Here Are Some of OurBbright Lights!!!!

 
At 16 January, 2010 13:18, Blogger Dave Kyte said...

"The Debunker Cult:Here Are Some of OurBbright Lights!!!!"

Yes Arhoolie, we all realize you don't get it and all this is beyond your limited comprehension. But how does your own personal lack of education and skills made building 7 a controlled demolition? Except in your wildly gullible mind.

We know all truthers are not bright people, that is established. To you guys anything beyond the simplest concepts will be BIG QUESTIONS and so open to wild speculation. Nothing can be done about that, we can't make more neuron fire off in your feeble mass you call a brain. You are unfortunately stuck with the poor hand you were dealt in the genetics game of life.

 
At 16 January, 2010 13:19, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dave Kyte, reality is messy -- especially when plotters are trying to sow confusion -- and your wish for a simple, easy, consistent explanation is not a sign of a subtle intellect.

There is no contradiction between MIHOP and ignored warnings. If the Bushcists were making it happen, of course they have to ignore the warnings. Otherwise how can they make it happen? Sheesh!

Unlike you, some of us are actually seeking truth, and not simply trying to pretend we know everything.

 
At 16 January, 2010 13:55, Anonymous New Yorker said...

Dave Kyte, reality is messy -- especially when plotters are trying to sow confusion -- and your wish for a simple, easy, consistent explanation is not a sign of a subtle intellect.

More babbling from the increasingly frantic Brian Good. It doesn't matter if two things are in direct contradiction: I will believe them because 9/11 "truth" is the only thing that gives my life meaning.

There is no contradiction between MIHOP and ignored warnings.

QED.

If the Bushcists were making it happen, of course they have to ignore the warnings. Otherwise how can they make it happen?

More insanity. Also, I love the term "Bushcists". It's obvious Brian is a burnt out far-leftist relic from the 60s. He hates Bush and that's the only reason he became a "truther".

I didn't like the Bush administration either, but that wasn't reason enough to join a loony conspiracy cult.

Unlike you, some of us are actually seeking truth, and not simply trying to pretend we know everything.

Yes, some of us seek truth and admit we don't know anything. Brian Good, on the other hand, ignores the avalanche of evidence countering his insane worldview (because reality is too tough to bear when you're an unemployed antisocial loser in your late 50s) and thinks he knows everything.

He doesn't even know what "QED" means.

Please see a psychiatrist, Brian.

 
At 16 January, 2010 13:55, Anonymous Sword of Truth said...

At what point in the collapse did those OTHER 82 columns fail?

Near the end.

 
At 16 January, 2010 14:12, Blogger Lazarus Long said...

"You may have been told there are no stupid questions but that was a lie. Some questions are quite stupid"

Thus proving that Twoooofers™ are truly, deeply, profoundly retarded.

(That line is like SO stolen)

 
At 16 January, 2010 14:13, Blogger Dave Kyte said...

Dave Kyte, reality is messy -- especially when plotters are trying to sow confusion

Well it is easy to sow confusion among idiots like you. Don't assume debunkers are as "confused" as you. As I said complex issues are beyond your limited purview.

Because you Brian are in the lower class of people who weren’t born with a sterling ability to think in a rational way, you assumed everyone is so stunted. Learn to live with your limitation Brian.

 
At 16 January, 2010 14:17, Anonymous Anonymous said...

New Yorker, your obsession with Brian Good is amusing. What did the guy do to you -- steal your girl or something? Or did he just make a fool of you?

I can maintain two contradictory ideas at the same time. What's wrong with that? It's a skill much lauded by F. Scott Fitzgerald.
For instance, I can maintain that a certain German sports car is superior to a certain Japanese sports car because it handles better; and then turn right around and argue that the Japanese car is better because it accelerates quicker.

But, unlike you, it is not necessary for me to judge which is better.

There is no contradiction between MIHOP and ignored warnings. Any MIHOP would involve planted evidence for a cover story, and some of this evidence might get noticed by foreign intel agents.

 
At 16 January, 2010 14:18, Blogger Lazarus Long said...

"Yes, some of us seek truth and admit we don't know anything. Brian Good, on the other hand, ignores the avalanche of evidence countering his insane worldview (because reality is too tough to bear when you're an unemployed antisocial loser in your late 50s) and thinks he knows everything."

Gotta lurve lurve lurve his expertise on pyroclastic flow.

Now, if we could only get him to acknowledge what "FAE" stands for.

Then his genius could be agreed upon by one and all.

 
At 16 January, 2010 14:20, Blogger Lazarus Long said...

"Anonymous said...
New Yorker, your obsession with Brian Good is amusing."

Actually, it's known as "laughing at the retarded".

It's awful, I know, but by Cthulu it is just so much fun baiting the genetically challanged.

 
At 16 January, 2010 14:27, Anonymous New Yorker said...

New Yorker, your obsession with Brian Good is amusing. What did the guy do to you -- steal your girl or something? Or did he just make a fool of you?

I guess I'm getting under your skin, huh Brian? This is the best you can do? Geez....

Also, the "steal your girl" line is hilarious, given your monumental failure in trying to steal Carol Brouillet from your husband.

I can maintain two contradictory ideas at the same time. What's wrong with that?

It's a sign of either severe mental illness or a total inability to think coherently. I think you're a little of each.

For instance, I can maintain that a certain German sports car is superior to a certain Japanese sports car because it handles better; and then turn right around and argue that the Japanese car is better because it accelerates quicker.

Those aren't contradictory, moron. You really need to learn what words mean before you use them.

But, unlike you, it is not necessary for me to judge which is better.

Irrelevant gibberish.

There is no contradiction between MIHOP and ignored warnings.

False.

Any MIHOP would involve planted evidence for a cover story, and some of this evidence might get noticed by foreign intel agents.

Please see a psychiatrist, Brian.

 
At 16 January, 2010 14:29, Blogger Dave Kyte said...

"For instance, I can maintain that a certain German sports car is superior to a certain Japanese sports car because it handles better; and then turn right around and argue that the Japanese car is better because it accelerates quicker."

Unfortunately a loser like you has probably never even driven either one, let alone to a limit that would matter. And to top it off you would cite amateur opinions of a "Richard Gage" level driver over a proven professional diver like Lewis Hamilton. And claim one car is faster because of a super secret Nano thermite Zero energy fuel.

 
At 16 January, 2010 15:04, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well what a bunch of fluff.

Reality is contradictory (night both follows and precedes day but day both follows and precedes night), and NY's belief that maintaining two contradictory ideas is a sign of either severe mental illness only shows his intellectual impoverishment.

But then that's to be expected of someone who seems to get some perverse thrill out of blatant lies. But damn, NY, can't you at least show some ambition? Make like a Ranke or something?

 
At 16 January, 2010 15:07, Blogger Dave Kyte said...

Bet you Brian was one of those loons who believed the oil companies were surprising the 200mpg carburetor. Remember that one?

And the run you car on water scam.

 
At 16 January, 2010 15:11, Blogger Dave Kyte said...

"two contradictory ideas is a sign of either severe mental illness only shows his intellectual impoverishment."

It is when both ideas are pure bullshit. It only makes you twice the fool.

Poor Brian, epochally stupid and doesn't even know it.

 
At 16 January, 2010 15:12, Anonymous New Yorker said...

Reality is contradictory (night both follows and precedes day but day both follows and precedes night), and NY's belief that maintaining two contradictory ideas is a sign of either severe mental illness only shows his intellectual impoverishment.

See Brian, this is why you're so entertaining. You assert something absurd (LIHOP and MIHOP can be maintained at the same time), and when you get called on it, rather than just do the normal cowardly thing and drop the subject, you DIG YOUR HEELS IN!

And that leads to even more hilarity in which you demonstrate how ignorant you are despite your pretensions. You don't know what the term "contradiction" means.

But then that's to be expected of someone who seems to get some perverse thrill out of blatant lies. But damn, NY, can't you at least show some ambition? Make like a Ranke or something?

Yup, I've gotten pretty far under your skin, which isn't too hard with someone with your mental illness problems.

 
At 16 January, 2010 15:17, Blogger Dave Kyte said...

So Brian, do you think the oil companies suppressed the 200mpg carburetor? If you know as much about cars as you do about physics this should be good.

 
At 16 January, 2010 16:05, Blogger Triterope said...

There is no contradiction between MIHOP and ignored warnings.

Sure, if you think criminals should turn themselves in when they see their names on the wanted list. Some Inspector Javert you are. Fuckhead.

 
At 16 January, 2010 20:23, Anonymous New Yorker said...

I'd also like to note the hilarious irony of being lectured about "ambition" by a middle-aged man who lives with his parents and can't hold down a steady janitor's job.

 
At 17 January, 2010 23:39, Anonymous Anonymous said...

silly

 
At 18 January, 2010 09:27, Anonymous Shart Roberts said...

"You already have, Paul. You debated them and had you ass handed to you..."
-Unsharpened Sword

Is there a link to this? Did someone actually explain the gravitational acceleration of 7, or is this more of Sword's prevarications and "Pdoh"philia? I know I never addressed it in my ridiculous WTC Lies "paper", and that's why I'm considered a complete moron by the same critical thinkers I claim to represent.

 
At 18 January, 2010 09:49, Anonymous New Yorker said...

Is there a link to this? Did someone actually explain the gravitational acceleration of 7, or is this more of Sword's prevarications and "Pdoh"philia? I know I never addressed it in my ridiculous WTC Lies "paper", and that's why I'm considered a complete moron by the same critical thinkers I claim to represent.

Ah, back on gravitational acceleration. I thought I already told you, the NWO created a micro-black hole right under WTC 7 at the moment of collapse. That's what caused the collapse at "gravitational acceleration".

 
At 18 January, 2010 16:23, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Lots of four letter words and armchair psychiatry, but no mention of the fact that Donald Rumsfeld was the first person to utter that a "missile" had supposedly hit the Pentagon (in his October 12, 2001 interview with Parade). It's a great example of reverse psychology that was used to bait and discredit the truth movement. Meanwhile, almost no one mentions the "plane into building" exercise near Dulles Airport at the exact moment the planes went off course. I'm sure it was a coincidence ...

It's a great fake debate between "no planes and therefore a conspiracy" versus "the planes hit and therefore no conspiracy." How about - yes, of course the planes hit (how insulting to suggest otherwise) but also the Bush White House knew the attacks were going to happen and let them / made sure they did happen.

I'm sure there will be some abusive words in following comments, but none of them will mention why the CIA scheduled the plane into building exercise at the same time that their allied "intelligence" services warned them that al-Qaeda was planning to crash planes into the WTC and other targets.

 
At 18 January, 2010 16:24, Anonymous Anonymous said...

9/11 Truth is an inside job.

 
At 18 January, 2010 16:44, Anonymous New Yorker said...

Lots of four letter words and armchair psychiatry, but no mention of the fact that Donald Rumsfeld was the first person to utter that a "missile" had supposedly hit the Pentagon (in his October 12, 2001 interview with Parade). It's a great example of reverse psychology that was used to bait and discredit the truth movement. Meanwhile, almost no one mentions the "plane into building" exercise near Dulles Airport at the exact moment the planes went off course. I'm sure it was a coincidence ...

Nobody cares.

How about - yes, of course the planes hit (how insulting to suggest otherwise) but also the Bush White House knew the attacks were going to happen and let them / made sure they did happen.

Hey, if you want to be LIHOP, be my guest. Just get ready for the wrath of the no-planers, and thermiters, and WTC7ers and all the other lunatics who are going to accuse you of heresy.

I'm sure there will be some abusive words in following comments

Yes, and they will come from idiot "truthers" babbling about "north of the Citgo" or "thermite" or "free-fall speed" or "molten iron".

My personal feeling about LIHOP is that Hanlon's Razor applies.

 
At 18 January, 2010 16:57, Anonymous Hanlon said...

"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."

 
At 18 January, 2010 17:52, Blogger Lazarus Long said...

" Anonymous said...
Lots of four letter words and armchair psychiatry, but no mention of the fact that Donald Rumsfeld was the first person to utter that a "missile" had supposedly hit the Pentagon"\

Why would he say that, since a hijacked 767 flew into the Pentagon.

Unless he made a slip.

"It's a great example of reverse psychology that was used to bait and discredit the truth movement."

Naw, you insane ankle biters do a FINE job of doing that to yourselves.

" How about - yes, of course the planes hit (how insulting to suggest otherwise) but also the Bush White House knew the attacks were going to happen and let them / made sure they did happen."

Well, you could SAY that, but you'd have to be insane to BELIEVE it.

"their allied "intelligence" services warned them that al-Qaeda was planning to crash planes into the WTC and other targets."

False.

 
At 18 January, 2010 21:54, Anonymous Anonymous said...

re: Hanlon.

Nobody could be that stupid.

Condi was told by Richard Blee on 7/10/01 that an al Qaeda attack was imminent in the next few weeks. Tenet and Blee said later that if she had acted on the warning 9/11 could have been prevented.

There were warnings from 13 foreign countries, 3 FBI offices and the CIA. 6 countries warned of attacks using airplanes.

 
At 19 January, 2010 00:47, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Rumsfeld didn't slip.

it's was planting bait.

There are those who claim it was a "transcription error" (sept 2004 followup in Parade) on the DOD website, but if that was true they would have had enough time to fix the alleged mistake.

It's similar to the slightly doctored memos given to Dan Rather at CBS (see BS) in 2004 about George W. Bush going AWOL from the National Guard. Bush went AWOL, but the furor over the doctored memos discredited the story. It's an old tactic.

As for abuse from the no plane promoters, I recommend reading about the history of COINTELPRO. Of course, there are many who fall for the crap claims, which makes this tactic even stronger. It's done on many issues. The "Birther" movement is probably a form of this, too.

To repeat: there were numerous warnings that were received, some of them extremely specific, others less so. But there were more than enough to go far beyond incompetence as an explanation. The mere fact alone that the so-called Commander in Chief sat on his ass instead of pretending to run the world's largest military when told of the attack shows something else than "incompetence" was going on. And in cases of "incompetence" someone generally is held to account, but there were no prosecutions for dereliction of duty or court martial or similar efforts to hold anyone accountable for allegedly screwing up.

Perhaps I missed it, but I've never seen SLC or related efforts deal with the Complete 9/11 Timeline database of warnings or press for additional evidence on this aspect to be made public. That would be much more productive than the challenged people who become instant "experts" on demolition and aviation and run around the world spreading nonsense.

 
At 19 January, 2010 01:14, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Speaking of birthers and cointelpro, it's interesting that Philip Berg was the lawyer both for William Rodriguez's disinfo 9/11 lawsuit and for one of the birther suits, and he was illiterate in both of them.

 
At 19 January, 2010 06:55, Anonymous New Yorker said...

re: Hanlon.

Nobody could be that stupid.


Really? How many days of warning did we have that a category 5 hurricane was heading on a track that would lead to the "doomsday scenario" in New Orleans? And how bungled was the response by all levels of government?

I suppose Bush "let" Katrina happen because he wanted to invade...um, what country?

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Show me your evidence that the government consciously failed to act, instead of the more simple explanation that layers of bureaucracy and incompetence led to the attacks happening.

 
At 19 January, 2010 10:54, Blogger Lazarus Long said...

"It's similar to the slightly doctored memos given to Dan Rather at CBS (see BS) in 2004 about George W. Bush going AWOL from the National Guard."

They were total, complete and unarguable fakes.

And this fucktard says they were "slightly doctored".

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!!

What a loon.

What a maroon.

"Bush went AWOL, but the furor over the doctored memos discredited the story. It's an old tactic."

He wasn't, and has documented he wasn't.

With REAL documents.


"The mere fact alone that the so-called Commander in Chief sat on his ass instead of pretending to run the world's largest military when told of the attack shows something else than "incompetence" was going on."

You don't have much contact with reality, do you, moron?

"That would be much more productive than the challenged people who become instant "experts" on demolition and aviation and run around the world spreading nonsense."


Oh, sweet jeebus on a pogo stick, Teh Stoooopid gets worse and worse.

Go take your meds and have a nice lnog nap.

 
At 19 January, 2010 13:03, Anonymous Anonymous said...

NY wrote: "Show me your evidence that the government consciously failed to act"

Condi was warned on May 30, May 10, and August 6 of upcoming attacks. She failed to act. I don't know whether her failure to do so was conscious or unconscious, but I have my suspicions.

These aren't failures to act, these are actions taken:

David Frasca doctored the FISA warrant request on Moussoui's computer so it wouldn't be granted.

The CIA blocked FBI agents seconded to their offices who wanted to share information about the San Diego cell with their FBi brethren.

 
At 19 January, 2010 13:26, Anonymous New Yorker said...

Condi was warned on May 30, May 10, and August 6 of upcoming attacks. She failed to act. I don't know whether her failure to do so was conscious or unconscious, but I have my suspicions.

Your suspicions ain't worth much, Petgoat. You need this little thing called "evidence".

See, I have my suspicion that you keep women chained in your basement, but I only have evidence that you stalked Carol Brouillet.

David Frasca doctored the FISA warrant request on Moussoui's computer so it wouldn't be granted.

The CIA blocked FBI agents seconded to their offices who wanted to share information about the San Diego cell with their FBi brethren.


That's nice.

 
At 19 January, 2010 17:35, Blogger Triterope said...

See, I have my suspicion that you keep women chained in your basement

Brian can't keep women in his basement. Where would he put his stuff?

 
At 19 January, 2010 17:50, Anonymous Anonymous said...

NY, what you're missing is that the choice between conscious and unconscious makes the issue of suspicions peripheral.

 
At 19 January, 2010 19:46, Blogger Triterope said...

Brian, what you're missing is disambiguate obstreperous acrimony postulate synecdoche thesaurus.

 
At 19 January, 2010 20:35, Anonymous Anonymous said...

TR, where's your grammar -- boffing gramps? You got two verbs, an adjective and three nouns.

It should be "Disambiguating obstreperous acrimony postulates synecdoche thesaurus."

Of course it's still nonsense. You remind me of Phil Berg.

 
At 19 January, 2010 20:42, Anonymous New Yorker said...

NY, what you're missing is that the choice between conscious and unconscious makes the issue of suspicions peripheral.

Using big words in senseless ways doesn't make you look smarter, snug.bug.

 
At 19 January, 2010 23:49, Anonymous Anonymous said...

What big words, NY?

 
At 20 January, 2010 04:55, Blogger Triterope said...

Of course it's still nonsense.

That's the point, retard.

 
At 20 January, 2010 07:18, Anonymous New Yorker said...

What big words, NY?

"is", "the".

You also don't know what "peripheral" or "conscious" means either, but we'll get to those lessons next time, snug.bug.

 
At 20 January, 2010 07:49, Anonymous Arhoolie said...

PornBoy is officially over the cliff and out of side.Now he is saying that Bush wasn't a draft dodger and AWOL!! The mind reels at the sheer audacity of that statement.Yea,and Rush Limbaugh isn't a vicious racist and warmonger.....Although the Debunker Cult hasn't managed a squeak about why Moussaoui's laptop wasn't opened before 9/11,a little ol' "anonymous" managed to crush you morons with merely one sentence on David Frasca's highly suspicious actions.And that's only a the tip of the iceberg on this element of the subterfuge.You Bozos really are the circle jerkers from Hell.

 
At 20 January, 2010 07:50, Anonymous Correction for Sacksterbeck said...

"over the cliff and out of sight"

 
At 20 January, 2010 10:08, Blogger Lazarus Long said...

"the Debunker Cult"

Lather.

Rinse.

Repeat.

 
At 20 January, 2010 13:37, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I know two kinds of people who think repetition makes a dumb joke funnier:

children, and people on drugs

 
At 20 January, 2010 14:58, Blogger Lazarus Long said...

"Anonymous said...
I know two kinds of people who think repetition makes a dumb joke funnier:

children, and people on drugs"

And I know a group of people who treat words like talismans, retpeating a mantra in the (always dissappointed) hopes that repeating and repeating and repeating and repeating the correct incantation over and over and over and over will actually change reality.

Krazee, the Balless Wonder Klown™ is the perfect example of this insanity, and bh jove, I do like pointing out to the world what a moronic twit he really is.

Can you really say that the nonsensical phrase "The Debunker Cult" is an indication of anyting but an individual who has, at best, a passing relationship with reality?

Eth poor mouth breathing moron is a Truther for Cthulu's sake.

The poor creature is mad.

And just to let you know, my youngest child had graduated from college.

And I don't do drugs.

 
At 20 January, 2010 16:32, Anonymous Anonymous said...

LL, you're an anonymous internet poster, msking our claims that you're more that eleven years old and not a hopeless hairspray huffer meaningless.

 
At 20 January, 2010 17:12, Blogger Lazarus Long said...

"Anonymous said...
LL, you're an anonymous internet poster, msking our claims that you're more that eleven years old and not a hopeless hairspray huffer meaningless."

Ah.

You got nothing, so you make a childish ad hominem.

Oh, and I tell the truth on the internet, strange as that may sound to a conspiracy idiot like you, Krazee.

BTW, what does "msking our claims " mean? Could you translate that into Sane?

 
At 20 January, 2010 17:37, Blogger Triterope said...

Anonymous said...

LL, you're an anonymous internet poster


You're an idiot, but you're a damned efficient idiot.

 
At 20 January, 2010 19:00, Anonymous Anonymous said...

TR, you're a damn deficient idiot.

 
At 20 January, 2010 19:09, Anonymous Charlton Heston said...

TR, you're a damn deficient idiot.

I like the alliteration. Get your hands off of me you damn dirty ape!

 
At 20 January, 2010 20:13, Blogger Triterope said...

TR, you're a damn deficient idiot.

I'll admit that was a witty riposte.

I wish I knew who wrote it.

 
At 20 January, 2010 20:29, Anonymous Anonymous said...

NY, neither TWA 800 nor Pan Am 103 were able to motivate 20-year wars.

There is evidence that we knew the attacks were coming. Top Pentagon brass cancelled travel plans. FBI agents warned David Schippers. Apparently Schippers believed these warnings were pretty specific. Tenet and Blee warned Condi an attack was coming in the next few weeks.

stilllaughing, no benefit to whom? Halliburtoin got no-bid contracts, Bush got his war, Pentagon got a $700 billion budget, CIA got the resumed Afghan opium, Chevron gets the Afghan pipeline.

TR, there are MIHOP elements in the LIHOP and vice versa. Sorry the world is more complicated than the binary world you want. You Let It Happen when you want it to happen. You can't hide a radio beacon in an elevator shaft?

There's no need to invent anything. Ever hear of MIDI? Ever see that Apple ad where an Apple II turned off all the lights in a building, floor by floor? You guys are so 1973!

They planted many floors and detonated them in the desired sequence.

TR, your incredulity is based on your ignorance of the facts. The hijackers did not arrive the morning of 9/11. The San Diego guys lived with an FBI informant and made many unsecured phone calls back to the Yemen communications hub that was bugged by the CIA. The Mossad warned of 19 terrorists planning something big, and they named names. How do you think the FBI identified the dead hijackers (without bodies) within a couple of days?

 
At 20 January, 2010 20:39, Anonymous Anonymous said...

TR, you wrote the re-post. I just change da phonics a little bit.

 
At 21 January, 2010 06:10, Blogger Lazarus Long said...

brian is cutting and pasting his insane comments now.

New trick, you retarded marmoset?

 
At 23 January, 2010 16:44, Anonymous Anonymous said...

LL, I found the phrase "retarded marmoset" in a forum post from 2004.

 

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