Wednesday, May 19, 2010

Greens Reject Truther Hicks; Will Libertarians Go for Truther Hancock?

Sander Hicks is leaving the Green Party after failing (again) to receive its nomination for Senator from New York.

On Saturday, May 15, 2010, in Albany New York, the Green Party State Committee nominated its state-wide slate of candidates. I was a candidate for US Senate, and indicators were positive for the nomination. There were two open slots, and a dearth of candidates.

I was shocked when I lost. My surprise defeat, and the process on Saturday, were products of a process so flawed, I am prompted to resign from the Green Party State Committee, and its adjunct “Campaign Committee.”

I hereby resign from the Party as a member, as well.


In his resignation, he blasts the party's "cowardice on the 9-11 question." Predictably, Hicks wheels out all the tired arguments:

Even the heads of the 9/11 Commission admit now that they were “set up to fail.” Even the Chief Counsel of the 9/11 Commission, John Farmer, in a new book says that the Bush White House lied to the Commission.


Meanwhile, the Libertarian Party is in the midst of an uproar over the potential election of Truther Ernie Hancock as the national chairman.

In their April 24 head-to-head debate, Libertarian National Committee Chair candidate Wayne Root said of his opponent Ernest Hancock: “If you want to destroy this Party, name a national chairman who believes that 9/11 was an inside job by the government.”


Hancock is talking about sending Jason Bermas' new film to the LP delegates who will decide his fate:

Hancock mused about the DVD that he’ll be sending to St. Louis delegates: “I want everybody to know what it is that [Root] will not talk about. [...] I’m going to be controversial. I’m not even sure exactly what I’m going to send to the delegates. I’m leaning towards Invisible Empire.”


As usual, the real nuttery comes out in the comments section:

This makes me wonder if Root is a plant or is he just a guy who doesn’t really comprehend the big picture and/or is too scared or too narrow-minded to search for the truth.


Yep, paranoid people are paranoid about everything. I like this comment:

This shows how little you know about marketing. The 9/11 Truth Movement is MANY times larger than the Libertarian Party. 9/11 Truthers are skeptical of government and are anti-war and pro-civil liberties. Many of them are already libertarians or are libertarian leaning. These are people who SHOULD BE ripe picking for the Libertarian Party.


I doubt if the Troofers are really much bigger than the Libertarians, and if they are, that says more about the latter than it does about the former.

Hat Tip on LP story: Bikerman in the comments.

Labels: , , ,

78 Comments:

At 19 May, 2010 13:08, Blogger GuitarBill said...

"...All of the credible questions and inconsistencies re 9-11 can be reasonably explained based on incompetence and a simple lack of attention and follow-through at the highest levels of the federal government. No conspiracy theory is needed." -- Steve Bloom


Sander Hicks replies,

"...Nine years after 9/11, it’s not enough to limit your inquiry to 'unanswered questions.' Bloom insists that only this is permissible, before then contradicting himself by saying 'nothing to see here, it’s just government incompetence.' Bloom effectively is defending the Bush/Cheney/Obama official story, the CIA, the Mossad, and the ultra-capitalists like Blackstone, AIG, and Silverstein Properties, because a real investigation of 9/11 will lead directly to their doors. If you don’t know that at this point, you have your head in the sand."


As per specification: Scratch a troofer™ and you'll find an anti-Semite just below the surface.

%^)

 
At 19 May, 2010 13:15, Anonymous Bikerman said...

That Sander Hicks story is so funny. "I didn't win so I'm taking my ball and going home". As if the kook fringe "Green Party" has ANY MEANING AT ALL. What a blowhard moron. Even funnier than the content of their inane dumb positions is the fact that these bozos take themselves so seriously.

My first ever Hat Tip. I feel priveledged.

 
At 19 May, 2010 14:14, Anonymous Anonymous said...

http://www.forgoodreason.org/james_randi_a_skeptic_comes_out_at_81

 
At 19 May, 2010 14:22, Blogger Pat said...

Well, 9-11 must be an inside job, if James Randi is teh gay.

 
At 19 May, 2010 14:34, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Naah, it just means he`s been living in denial for decades. Wonder what else he would lie about, hmmm?

 
At 19 May, 2010 14:41, Blogger Billman said...

My wife is a Libertarian and she doesn't believe this 9/11 conspiracy junk. So it's not ALL of them, like the troofers would want you to believe.

 
At 19 May, 2010 14:51, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey Billman, are you going to "THE AMAZING MEETING" in Vegas July 8-11?

 
At 19 May, 2010 14:56, Blogger Billman said...

If it's for the "Amazing Johnathon" , a local magician I know, then sure. But he usually doesn't throw parties until halloween.

 
At 19 May, 2010 15:00, Blogger Billman said...

I just looked it up. It'd be cool to see the Mythbusters, or Captain Disillusion if they showed up. Otherwise, meh.. not really interested. I'd rather use my free time going to a star trek convention or comic-con.

 
At 19 May, 2010 15:02, Anonymous Anonymous said...

TAM is only the greatest skeptic meeting ever. You should go. Make sure to bring clean underwear.

 
At 19 May, 2010 15:07, Blogger Billman said...

If I knew some people who were going, I might consider it, depending on how much it is to go. And only if they were talking about other non-9/11 things I'm interested in, like 2012 debunkings, Roswell, Bob Lazaar, etc..

Then yes, Anonymous, I might consider going. Clean underwear and all.

 
At 19 May, 2010 15:16, Blogger angrysoba said...

Isn't Ronald Weick a member of the Libertarian Party?

 
At 19 May, 2010 15:26, Blogger Pat said...

AS, I don't know what Ron's party registration is. And let me specify that I sympathize with a lot of small "l" libertarian ideas although I'm not a big fan of the big "L" Libertarian Party.

 
At 19 May, 2010 18:18, Blogger GuitarBill said...

Anonymous prevaricates, "...Naah, it just means he`s been living in denial for decades. Wonder what else he would lie about, hmmm?"

Another demonstration of the breadth and depth of your dishonesty, cretin?

Conflating denial with lying, scumbag?

Denial is defined as failure to acknowledge an unacceptable truth or emotion or to admit it into consciousness--a defense mechanism.

Now, go slit your wrists, Anonymous, it'll lower your blood pressure.

 
At 19 May, 2010 18:35, Blogger Triterope said...

Okay, show of hands... how many of you read the headline and thought "Truther Hicks" was more than one person?

 
At 19 May, 2010 18:56, Blogger Triterope said...

Naah, it just means he`s been living in denial for decades. Wonder what else he would lie about, hmmm?

"James Randi is gay, so 9-11 was an inside job"?

It's different, I'll give you that.

 
At 19 May, 2010 18:59, Anonymous Patrick from Cincinnati said...

I can't imagine how many small l libertarians have been turned off over the years by the Big L Libertarians. This has been going on for quite some time.

 
At 19 May, 2010 19:07, Blogger angrysoba said...

Naah, it just means he`s been living in denial for decades. Wonder what else he would lie about, hmmm?

OMG!1!

Uri Geller did bend the spoons with his mind!

Right, Anonymous?

 
At 19 May, 2010 19:10, Blogger angrysoba said...

And let me specify that I sympathize with a lot of small "l" libertarian ideas although I'm not a big fan of the big "L" Libertarian Party.

Sure! I don't know much about the Libertarian Party. I seem to remember they're pretty close ideologically to Ron Paul but isn't Hardfire a Libertarian Party show?


Just Asking Questions...

 
At 19 May, 2010 20:36, Anonymous Patrick from Cincinnati said...

Angrysoba,

I'm sure you're aware of this, but I think there's a big difference in the U.S. and the U.K. as to party identity. At times in my life I've considered myself a Republican, but I've never taken one step toward joining the party. My understanding in the U.K. generally is that if you're a member of the Labour Party, then you're really a member of the Labour Party.

 
At 19 May, 2010 23:49, Blogger angrysoba said...

Patrick from Cincinnati,

There are a number of differences. People in Britain don't register themselves as either Conservative, Labour, Lib Dem when they register to vote but some people automatically become Labour Party members if they are members of certain trade unions. Obviously that doesn't mean they have to vote Labour in a general election as there is no way of checking.

I think the vast majority of people in Britain are not members of any party even if they consistently vote for the same one each election.

Then again there are fringe parties such as the Greens, Respect and the BNP who might well get almost all their votes from the loonies who are members.

 
At 19 May, 2010 23:54, Blogger Pat said...

AS, the LP is supposedly the focus of the show, but I would guess that Ron is more likely to vote R than L.

But that's just my take, I could be completely wrong.

 
At 20 May, 2010 00:58, Blogger angrysoba said...

AS, the LP is supposedly the focus of the show, but I would guess that Ron is more likely to vote R than L.


Yeah, that sounds right to me.

Sorry for the derail.

 
At 20 May, 2010 06:43, Blogger Dave Kyte said...

Naah, it just means he`s been living in denial for decades. Wonder what else he would lie about, hmmm?

OMG!

Than, Sylvia Browne really is a psychic!

Right, Anonymous?

 
At 20 May, 2010 06:49, Blogger Dave Kyte said...

Truthers may have a better chance moving to England.

Vote Loony

 
At 20 May, 2010 06:52, Anonymous sackcloth and ashes said...

'Naah, it just means he`s been living in denial for decades. Wonder what else he would lie about, hmmm?'

It may come as a surprise to you, but homosexuality isn't a crime, provided it involves consenting adults. Maybe that's something Delmart Vreeland should have thought about, eh?

And incidentally, why is the sexual orientation of any adult of any fucking business of yours, you sheet-sniffing piece of shit?

 
At 20 May, 2010 09:46, Anonymous troyfromwv said...

Walter Ego likes the sausage. He's made many debunker related videos. And I subscribe to him. I must like the links too.

Homosexuals generally don't bother me. It's just the ones that flaunt it in your face looking for a reaction that I have a problem with. And I see that flaunting crap on the TV. Never in public.

 
At 20 May, 2010 09:57, Anonymous DeBunkaBusta said...

As per specification: Scratch a troofer™ and you'll find an anti-Semite just below the surface.


This statement is simply not true.

 
At 20 May, 2010 10:26, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well DBB, expecting truth from a 9/11 anti-truther is pretty futile.

 
At 20 May, 2010 10:40, Blogger GuitarBill said...

Anonymous, examine the following photograph of Professor Steven Jones, and answer the following question: What's the name of the man sitting next to the Professor?

Photographic Source: Rense.com: Linked Photograph.

And remember, I'm just askin' questions...

 
At 20 May, 2010 12:17, Blogger Dave Kyte said...

Well DBB, expecting truth from a 9/11 anti-truther is pretty futile.

Well seeing as how "Truthers" are devoid of anything approaching truth except in their self aggrandizing name, Being anti un-truth is a noble thing.

 
At 20 May, 2010 17:08, Blogger GuitarBill said...

Anonymous, six hours have elapsed since I asked you the following question:

"...answer the following question: What's the name of the man sitting next to the Professor?

Photographic Source: Rense.com: Linked Photograph."


And your response?

*crickets*

*crickets*

*crickets*

*crickets*

...

 
At 20 May, 2010 18:36, Anonymous DeBunkaBusta said...

Anonymous said...
Well DBB, expecting truth from a 9/11 anti-truther is pretty futile.

Anon,

These guys are jokers and clowns. They think the guy who lives in the cave did it. Nothing more to see here. Just keep moving along...

 
At 20 May, 2010 18:36, Anonymous Anonymous said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 20 May, 2010 18:52, Anonymous DeBunkaBusta said...

GuitarBill

Actually that picture of Christopher Bollyn with Prof. Jones was from Bollyn's blog
http://www.bollyn.com/9-11-archive-2009#article_12024
If you scroll down you'll see a picture of an iron microspere found by Jones. You cannot claim that is not so as they were also found by the US Geological Survey and the RJ Lee company representing DeutchBank.

Iron does not melt until 2800 degrees. Hydrocarbon fires cannot get above 1800 degrees in the most ideal conditions...witch these fires were not.

 
At 20 May, 2010 19:32, Blogger GuitarBill said...

"...witch [SIC] these fires were not."

We have a spelling bee champ, folks.

And nice attempt to change the subject from anti-Semites at the helm of da troof™ movement to "iron microspere [SIC]", which you know nothing about, spelling bee champ.

Now, back to the subject, troofer™.

But you're right, it is Christopher Bollyn. Are you aware that Christopher Bollyn is an anti-Semite and a Holocaust denier?

Source: bollyn.com: Bollyn on the B'nai B'rith - AZL Roundtable.

Source: bollyn.com: The Moldovan Menorah, Michel Friedman, and the Jewish Crimocracy.

Source: bollyn.com: The Criminal Nature of the Zionist Controlled Press.

Source: bollyn.com: The Jewish Secret Society That Controls the U.S. Media.

Source: bollyn.com: B'nai B'rith – The Jewish Secret Society that Dominates America.

Source: bollyn.com: Ehud Barak - Architect of 9-11.

Source: bollyn.com: Made in Israel: Obama Decision on Missile Shield.

Source: bollyn.com: Mossad in Germany and 9-11 Disinformation.

Source: bollyn.com: Bono & the Jewish Media Celebrate the Fall of One Wall and Ignore Another.

Source: bollyn.com: Who Controls Our Elections?.

Source: bollyn.com: Busted: The Orthodox Criminal Network.

Source: bollyn.com: "Israel did 9-11" - A Primer on the Zionist Network Behind 9-11.

The ADL writes, "...Christopher Bollyn, a writer for the conspiracy-oriented newspaper American Free Press, a leading source on the far-right for disseminating anti-Semitic propaganda, has published numerous articles alleging that Jews and/or Israel had foreknowledge of the 9/11 attacks. He also reports that certain Jews in the government not only tried to cover up Israeli involvement in the attacks but have ties to Israeli intelligence."

Source: ADL: 9/11 Anti-Semitic Conspiracy Theories Still Abound.

Now, taking all of the aforementioned information into consideration, why would any reputable individual KNOWINGLY associate and collaborate with a known anti-Semite and Holocaust denier?

Are you aware that Bollyn is David Ray Grifter's "fact checker"? And why would an alleged "theologian" associate and collaborate with a known anti-Semite and Holocaust denier?

And Christopher Bollyn is just the tip of the iceberg.

So why would anyone find it shocking that Sander Hicks believes "the CIA, the Mossad, and the ultra-capitalists like Blackstone, AIG, and Silverstein Properties" are the perpetrators of 9/11?

I stand by my statement: Scratch a troofer™ and you'll find an anti-Semite just below the surface.

And remember, I'm just askin' questions...

 
At 20 May, 2010 23:47, Blogger GuitarBill said...

Update.

Apparently, Christopher Bollyn "rearranged" his website, so the following links will work (temporarily, at least):

Source: bollyn.com: Bollyn on the B'nai B'rith - AZL Roundtable.

Source: bollyn.com: The Moldovan Menorah, Michel Friedman, and the Jewish Crimocracy.

Source: bollyn.com: The Criminal Nature of the Zionist Controlled Press.

Source: bollyn.com: The Jewish Secret Society That Controls the U.S. Media.

Source: bollyn.com: B'nai B'rith – The Jewish Secret Society that Dominates America.

Source: bollyn.com: How Ehud Barak Pulled Off 9-11.

Source: bollyn.com: The Murderous Mossad and 9-11.

Source: bollyn.com: Bono & the Jewish Media Celebrate the Fall of One Wall and Ignore Another.

Source: bollyn.com: Who Controls Our Elections?.

Source: bollyn.com: Busted: The Orthodox Criminal Network.

Bollyn can rearrange his website all he wants; nevertheless, he can run, but he can't hide.

%^)

 
At 21 May, 2010 06:05, Anonymous DeBunkaBusta said...

I stand by my statement: Scratch a troofer™ and you'll find an anti-Semite just below the surface.

Tell that to Jason Bermas, who to his credit, ripped this guy an new asshole for this anti-Semitic remarks:

"Nothing I hate more than the Anti-Semites and the Nazis" --- Jason Bermas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-y3DkO1VX4g

What your really attempting to do is engage in a political tactic of guilt by association, tying to conflate 9/11 Truth with anti-Semitism. It is you who are guilty of a "nice attempt to change the subject," and you are being dishonest. I mean if you want to play this game, our side can play too!

For instance, Alexander Cockburn, who is a 9/11 Truth debunker, just like you schmucks...he wrote the following attack on the 9/11 Truth Movement:
Alexander Cockburn: The 9/11 Conspiracists and the Decline of the Left
www.counterpunch.org/cockburn11282006.htm

But he also wrote a book about how the charge of anti-Semitism is used to discredit anyone who criticizes Israel's oppression of Palestinians and its influence on American politics.
The Politics of anti-Semitism
By Alexander Cockburn, Jeffrey St. Clair
http://books.google.com/books?id=2s1nkNDzUnEC&dq=list+anti+semites&printsec=frontcover&source=in&hl=en&ei=wmj2S-6xBIGKlweY0-XaCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=11&ved=0CEUQ6AEwCg#

I suspect you will agree with everything that Cockburn has written about 9/11 Truth but you will have a problem with what he has written in his book The Politics of anti-Semitism. Just as I do in fact disagree with what Eric Hufschmid has written about the holocaust and take offense at his obvious anti-Semitism, however I do agree with his book and film Painful Deceptions (or at least with most of it as it pertains to the controlled demolition argument). You see, it is possible to disagree with someone on one issue and yet agree with them on another. I know simple minds such as yours tend to see things in black and white rather than shades of grey.

And if you want to play the equally dishonest "self-hating Jew" card (I am Jewish), well that has been over-played quite a bit:
SHIT LIST...7000+ Self-Hating Israel-Threatening Jews
http://www.masada2000.org/shit-list.html

What is really going on here is the extreme right-wing which controls Israeli politics (Likud Party, Netanyahu, Avigdor Lieberman, etc.) and their American right-wing supporters (such as that jack-ass Alan Dershowitz) will try to discredit anyone, be they Jewish or Gentile, if they do not agree with their right-wing political agenda.

And let's face it, you guys are just basically a bunch of right-wingers. But if you keep moving further and further to the right here is what you eventually will arrive at:

“fas-cism (fbsh'iz'em) n. A system of government that exercises a dictatorship of the extreme right, typically through the merging of state and business leadership, together with belligerent nationalism.”
--- The American Heritage Dictionary (Houghton Mifflin Company, 1983)

You will become exactly what you claim to be against.

 
At 21 May, 2010 06:30, Blogger GuitarBill said...

DeBunkaBusta whimpers, "...'Nothing I hate more than the Anti-Semites and the Nazis' --- Jason Bermas"

Another attempt to change the subject, asshole? Well, it won't work, junior.

Yeah, Bermas the nutter "hates anti-Semites", which explains why he's a leading figure in a "movement" that's chock-full of anti-Semites.

%^)

Does the term cognitive dissonance mean anything to you, junior?

And why do 9/11 troofers refuse to answer direct questions?

Let's try again, shall we, shit-for-brains.

Answer the questions, AND STOP CHANGING THE GOD DAMNED SUBJECT, ASSHOLE:

Question 1: Now, taking all of the aforementioned information into consideration, why would any reputable individual KNOWINGLY associate and collaborate with a known anti-Semite and Holocaust denier?

Question 2: Are you aware that Bollyn is David Ray Grifter's "fact checker"? And why would an alleged "theologian" associate and collaborate with a known anti-Semite and Holocaust denier?

Question 3: So why would anyone find it shocking that Sander Hicks believes "the CIA, the Mossad, and the ultra-capitalists like Blackstone, AIG, and Silverstein Properties" are the perpetrators of 9/11?


Now, hurry stupid, ignore my questions and respond by changing the subject again.

 
At 21 May, 2010 06:35, Blogger GuitarBill said...

Anonymous prevaricates, "...But if you keep moving further and further to the right here is what you eventually will arrive at:

“fas-cism (fbsh'iz'em)..."


Really? No kidding?

For your information, junior, a guy who spells which as "witch" has NO business lecturing anyone on the definition of any word.

Now, go back to 9/11flogger--you illiterate, trailer-park educated, conspiracy spewing retard.

 
At 21 May, 2010 06:39, Blogger GuitarBill said...

Anonymous prevaricates, "...(I am Jewish)"

No junior, you're not Jewish--you lying, neo-Nazi fucktard.

You're a liar, like all 9/11 troofers.

 
At 21 May, 2010 07:16, Anonymous DeBunkaBusta said...

First of all GuitarBill FUCK YOU and your attitude!!!

Second of all, I damn well am Jewish, proud of it and who the fuck are you to tell me I ain't?

 
At 21 May, 2010 07:22, Anonymous DeBunkaBusta said...

The problem is you guys won't debate 9/11. All you want to talk about is anti-semites, hurl insults and engage in childish comments about typos.

Your a bunch of clowns.

 
At 21 May, 2010 07:28, Blogger GuitarBill said...

"DeBunkaBusta"?

Really? No kidding?

You could have fooled me, mental midget.

Still working on the difference between which and witch, Einstein?

Consider changing your handle to Trailer-park educated Twit for 9/11 Troof™.

Now, answer the questions, AND STOP CHANGING THE GOD DAMNED SUBJECT, ASSHOLE:

Question 1: Now, taking all of the aforementioned information into consideration, why would any reputable individual KNOWINGLY associate and collaborate with a known anti-Semite and Holocaust denier?

Question 2: Are you aware that Bollyn is David Ray Grifter's "fact checker"? And why would an alleged "theologian" associate and collaborate with a known anti-Semite and Holocaust denier?

Question 3: So why would anyone find it shocking that Sander Hicks believes "the CIA, the Mossad, and the ultra-capitalists like Blackstone, AIG, and Silverstein Properties" are the perpetrators of 9/11?

9/11 Troof™: Try Out Our New Fact-Free Conspiranoid Theories. All the Flavor of Conspiranoid Theories You're Used to--and None of the Harmful Facts.

 
At 21 May, 2010 07:31, Anonymous sackcloth and ashes said...

'The problem is you guys won't debate 9/11.'

There is no 'debate' about 9/11, you fucking tool. On the one side there's the non-retarded community, who know full well that Al Qaeda were responsible. And on the other, there are the fuckwits who babble about controlled demolitions, nano-thermites, holographic planes and directed energy weapons from space.

We don't have a 'debate' with mentally-handicapped kooks who never let the facts get in the way of their paranoia. We just rip them to shreds. Deal with it.

 
At 21 May, 2010 07:38, Blogger GuitarBill said...

The Spelling Bee Champ scribbles, "...The problem is you guys won't debate 9/11. All you want to talk about is anti-semites, hurl insults and engage in childish comments about typos."

On the contrary, a trailer-park educated troofer™ who doesn't know the difference between which and witch isn't qualified to debate 9/11.

That said, the "debate" is over--and your side lost the "debate" years ago.

Besides, 9/11 troofers™ don't "debate", they engage in monologue--preaching to be precise.

Now do yourself a favor, and take your specious "sermon" back to 911flogger, "pastor".

 
At 21 May, 2010 07:47, Blogger GuitarBill said...

DeBunkaBusta the sub-literate scribbles, "...Your a bunch of clowns."

Really? No kidding?

%^)

I have news for you, junior: You're illiterate.

So you're how old now, "DeBunkaBusta"? And you're still working on the difference between your and you're?

LOL!

Yeah, let's "debate" 9/11 with an arrogant, trailer-park educated twit for 9/11 troof™.

ROTFLMAO!

Now, go back to 9/11flogger, junior.

 
At 21 May, 2010 08:22, Anonymous DeBunkaBusta said...

GuitarBill,

Let's try this a different way!

I really see no point in a silly school yard brawl. A food fight can be fun but I have much better things to do with my time.

So lets you and I make a deal! Perhaps we got off on the wrong foot, and I'll accept my share of the blame for that.

You and I agree to not hurl insults at one another, cut the snotty sarcastic remarks (from both directions) and engage in only civil friendly debate.

I will make plenty of typos (so cut the bullshit about that...I don't want to hear it).

Your questions cover allot of territory. We can go point by point. Frankly, our side needs to hear the arguments from the other side to see what you guys have to say that holds up. You may indeed have some very good points to make and I would want to hear those points.

I absolutely do not accept the official story of 9/11 !!! It is simply not believable.

And by the way, I really am Jewish, no kidding around...(I gather you are also..if not that's OK too). And I concede to you, that while the vast majority of 9/11 Truthers I strongly believe are not anti-Semitic, there are indeed too many of them in the movement....and many of us do find it to be both disturbing and a problem. I am willing to discuss that particular issue with you at length, but that is not all I want to talk about.

I'm a friend of Arhoolie, that's how I arrived in this scene. He's a good guy.

If you're willing to tone this down considerably and debate in a friend civil manner, let's go for it, otherwise I got better things to do. I don't want to commit allot of time to this but I have some time if the conversation is stimulating.

 
At 21 May, 2010 09:44, Blogger Triterope said...

I'm a friend of Arhoolie, that's how I arrived in this scene. He's a good guy.

Well, that's all I needed to hear.

 
At 21 May, 2010 09:58, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey GuitarBill, why do you consider someone an anti-semite when they are critical of a foreign countries intelligence agency?

Do you call people who criticize our CIA, anti-caucasian? What about the KGB? Anti-Slavic?

Oh wait, your using the association fallacy again. I already corrected your ignorant ass of this already.

Why can't you learn from your mistakes, computer boy?

Why is it when you scratch GuitarBill, you get a dumbass?

 
At 21 May, 2010 10:11, Blogger Triterope said...

Oh wait, your using the association fallacy again.

Oh goody, Anonyteen is back.

 
At 21 May, 2010 10:18, Blogger GuitarBill said...

Anonymous the 'tard whines, "...Hey GuitarBill, why do you consider someone an anti-semite when they are critical of a foreign countries intelligence agency?"

Are you really that stupid, Anonymous?

Here's one example of the anti-Semitic crap written by Christopher Bollyn:

"...As I said, I have not seen at these three former camps any evidence of any large oven in which hundreds of people could be gassed or burned. Nor, have I seen any photographs or physical evidence of such an oven. I don't see how this could make me a denier of anything. One can only deny by refusing to acknowledge something that one has seen the evidence of. I have looked for the evidence of these huge gas chambers and crematoria and not found it in the places they are said to have existed. That does not make me a holocaust denier."

Source: JREF: Steven Jones vs. The Nazis.

Anonymous prevaricates, "...Oh wait, your [SIC] using the association fallacy again. I already corrected your ignorant ass of this already."

Another demonstration of the breadth and depth of your intellectual dishonesty and stupidity, cretin? Still working on the difference between your and you're, junior?

"...What a marooon." -- Bugs Bunny

Now, answer the questions, scumbag:

Question 1: Now, taking all of the aforementioned information into consideration, why would any reputable individual KNOWINGLY associate and collaborate with a known anti-Semite and Holocaust denier?

Question 2: Are you aware that Bollyn is David Ray Grifter's "fact checker"? And why would an alleged "theologian" associate and collaborate with a known anti-Semite and Holocaust denier?

Question 3: So why would anyone find it shocking that Sander Hicks believes "the CIA, the Mossad, and the ultra-capitalists like Blackstone, AIG, and Silverstein Properties" are the perpetrators of 9/11?

Anonymous whines, "...Why can't you learn from your mistakes, computer boy?"

Says who? A quote miner, troll and compulsive liar who misrepresents his sources?

Perhaps a better question is, why do you refuse to answer my questions?

And remember, twit, I'm just askin' questions...

 
At 21 May, 2010 10:46, Anonymous DeBunkaBusta said...

I offered sincerely to engage you in civil debate, you aparently declined.

You guys are a waste of my time and there is no point flinging insults back and forth.

Go on believing the man who lives in the cave did it.....the one they never seem to be able to catch.

Arhoolie, these guys are major league ass-wipes.

 
At 21 May, 2010 11:12, Blogger GuitarBill said...

DeBunkaBusta tries his hand at stand up comedy and scribbles, "...I offered sincerely to engage you in civil debate."

"Sincerity" from a troofer™?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Pleeeeease.

 
At 21 May, 2010 11:18, Blogger GuitarBill said...

DeBunkaBusta whines, "...Go on believing the man who lives in the cave did it.....the one they never seem to be able to catch."

Racist.

The idiotic assumption that "19 Arab men with box cutters couldn't have done it" is false and racist to the core.

 
At 21 May, 2010 11:46, Anonymous Arhoolie said...

There's the "GitFiddler" and then there's everyone else in the room,"I mean it must be high or low".Last we heard this sap he was strenuously arguing,literally busting all his synapses,trying to convince the World Debunker Cult that,yes,Israel has no nuclear weapons! He was also found in a heap on his garage floor muttering about Norman Mineta,insisting that the conversation between Cheney and an aide in the bunker on 9/11 referred to Flight #93 ("20 miles ouy,10 miles out") If we're lucky he'll re-post it! Now he's tweaking his "Truthers are racist" schtick with the ol' boxcutters malarkey! And then there's SackofBollocks wih the hologram and directed weapons non-issue.Anything on the iron rich microspheres yet,jackoff?

 
At 21 May, 2010 11:46, Anonymous Arhoolie said...

There's the "GitFiddler" and then there's everyone else in the room,"I mean it must be high or low".Last we heard this sap he was strenuously arguing,literally busting all his synapses,trying to convince the World Debunker Cult that,yes,Israel has no nuclear weapons! He was also found in a heap on his garage floor muttering about Norman Mineta,insisting that the conversation between Cheney and an aide in the bunker on 9/11 referred to Flight #93 ("20 miles ouy,10 miles out") If we're lucky he'll re-post it! Now he's tweaking his "Truthers are racist" schtick with the ol' boxcutters malarkey! And then there's SackofBollocks wih the hologram and directed weapons non-issue.Anything on the iron rich microspheres yet,jackoff?

 
At 21 May, 2010 12:11, Blogger GuitarBill said...

ArseHooligan™ scribbles, "...There's the "GitFiddler" and then there's everyone else in the room,"I mean it must be high or low".Last we heard this sap he was strenuously arguing,literally busting all his synapses,trying to convince the World Debunker Cult that,yes,Israel has no nuclear weapons! He was also found in a heap on his garage floor muttering about Norman Mineta,insisting that the conversation between Cheney and an aide in the bunker on 9/11 referred to Flight #93 ("20 miles ouy,10 miles out") If we're lucky he'll re-post it! Now he's tweaking his "Truthers are racist" schtick with the ol' boxcutters malarkey!"

Well, if nothing else, you still can't read.

So when will you answer my questions with something other than speculation from NGOs and opinion pieces based on allegations and speculation from The Socialist International?

[4] Then perhaps you can explain why Israel has no record of nuclear weapons testing?

[7] And I'm still waiting for you to answer the question: Show me one nation that signed the NNPT that didn't test their nuclear weapons?

[8] How does a nation test its alleged nuclear arsenal "secretly"? Can you give me an example of ANY nation that's ever pulled that "miracle" off?

[9] So how did Israel manage to test their alleged "nuclear arsenal" without nuclear fallout?

So tell us, jackoff, how did Israel manage to develop and produce a nuclear arsenal without testing their alleged weapons?

That's right, the Israelis are the only nation in World history to develop and produce a nuclear arsenal without testing the weapons.

And guess what? ArseHooligan™ and the troofers™ want us to believe that Israel performed tests on their nuclear arsenal, but the tests produced no fallout.

What planet do you live on, ArseHooligan™? Obviously, you know NOTHING about how nuclear arms are produced.

Continued...

 
At 21 May, 2010 12:14, Blogger GuitarBill said...

Continued...

Concerning Norman Mineta: You're lying and misrepresenting my view again, cretin. But that shouldn't surprise us, because like Anonymous, you're a compulsive liar.

And you still refuse to address Norman Mineta's fatally flawed time line.

Norm Mineta claims that air traffic control issued a "ground hold on planes going into New York" that occurred, according to Mineta, at approximately "8:30 or 8:40 in the morning". Nevertheless, this was before the North Tower was stuck; thus, the actual decision was made MUCH later.

For example,

"...Regional air traffic managers on Monday offered a detailed chronology of Sept. 11, when two planes were hijacked from Boston, but refused to say more about what actually happened on the planes...Mike McCormick, air traffic control manager at the New York Center--the main control center for the area--made the unprecedented decision at 9:04 a.m. to declare 'ATC Zero,' meaning that no aircraft could fly into, out of or through the airspace over New York and the western Atlantic."

Source: Boston.com: FAA controllers detail Sept. 11 events.

Furthermore,

"...9:03-9:07 — New York and Boston regions' air traffic control officials stop takeoffs and landings. The New York Port Authority closes Newark International Airport...9:08-9:11 — Departures are stopped nationwide for aircraft heading to or through New York and Boston regions' airspace."

Source: USAToday: Part I: Terror attacks brought drastic decision: Clear the skies.

Starting to get the picture, Einstein? Clearly, Mineta's time for the "ground hold" order is OFF BY 30 MINUTES. The "ground hold" order was given 30 minutes after the time given by Mr. Mineta.

Source: thinkquest.org: September 11 Timeline.

So tell us, ArseHooligan™, how did Norman Mineta know to issue a "ground halt" at approximately "8:30 or 8:40 in the morning" when the North Tower had not been struck by the aircraft?

Does Norman Mineta have a crystal ball?

So, what were you saying, jackoff?

Now, answer my questions, and stop changing the subject, Arsehooligan™.

And remember, cretin, I'm just askin' questions...

 
At 21 May, 2010 13:50, Anonymous Arhoolie said...

Anything on the iron rich microspheres,jerkoff? That's not your original post,you creep.What about your claim that Cheney was referring to #93 when he was engaging with his aide?

 
At 21 May, 2010 14:41, Blogger GuitarBill said...

ArseHooligan the senile scribbles, "...What about your claim that Cheney was referring to #93 when he was engaging with his aide?"

How many times have I explained this to you, ArseHooligan?

That was a typo on my part. I meant to write Flight 77.

"...[T]he president was in Florida, and I believe he was on his way to Louisiana at that point when the conversation that went on between the vice president and the president and the staff that the president had with him". -- Norman Mineta

The conversation that led to the shoot down order according to Mineta took place at 9:27; however, this is not possible because President Bush was still at the school and his flight would not leave for another half hour.

My point was clear enough: Flight 77 had already crashed, so the conversation didn't concern to Flight 77.

Got it, ArseHooligan. Or must I repeat myself again?

Now, why don't you address Mineta's fatally flawed time line? Or will you ignore that request again?

And remember, I'm just askin' questions...

 
At 21 May, 2010 15:39, Anonymous sackcloth and ashes said...

'I'm a friend of Arhoolie, that's how I arrived in this scene. He's a good guy.'

Can you fill us in on that three-year tour he served in Iraq? Or that three-year stint he spent in the UK in the mid-1990s where - by his own account - he was a superstud who partied in the 'West End' of London and didn't pay a penny of Council Tax (and didn't seem to need either a job or dole money), and he managed not to remember the faintest detail about any of the places he claimed he'd lived in?

Much obliged.

 
At 22 May, 2010 07:44, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"My point was clear enough: Flight 77 had already crashed, so the conversation didn't concern to Flight 77"

Just for clarity, are you saying Flight 77 crashed at 9:27, Sideshow Bill?

PS: The Israeli nuke debate was settled, and not in your favor, get over it! =)

 
At 22 May, 2010 07:50, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Does Norman Mineta have a crystal ball?"

Do you have a hole in your head, Billshitter™? Mineta prefixes his faulty time with "maybe", while his other time, referring to the nationwide ground stop, is right on the mark. Continue to obscure the truth thought, it's your metier.

 
At 22 May, 2010 09:23, Blogger GuitarBill said...

Anonymous whines, "...Just for clarity, are you saying Flight 77 crashed at 9:27, Sideshow Bill?"

No asshole, Flight 77 hit the Pentagon at 9:40 AM, which is more proof that Mineta's time line is off.


"...PS: The Israeli nuke debate was settled, and not in your favor, get over it! =)"

According to whom? A quote miner, troll and compulsive liar who misrepresents his sources?

And your argument is based on what exactly? Speculation from NGOs and opinion pieces based on allegations and speculation from The Socialist International?

You haven't settled anything, asshole, until you answer the following questions with FACTS, not speculation and opinion:

[4] Then perhaps you can explain why Israel has no record of nuclear weapons testing?

[7] And I'm still waiting for you to answer the question: Show me one nation that signed the NNPT that didn't test their nuclear weapons?

[8] How does a nation test its alleged nuclear arsenal "secretly"? Can you give me an example of ANY nation that's ever pulled that "miracle" off?

[9] So how did Israel manage to test their alleged "nuclear arsenal" without nuclear fallout?

Now, get to work, asshole, because you've NEVER given me an answer to those questions.

And remember, fuck-face, speculation and opinion from NGOs and ultra-biased Socialist International propaganda aren't proof--they're a circle jerk.

Now, get to work, mental midget, and answer my questions.

And remember, ass-clown, I'm just askin' questions that you refuse to answer....Pussy.

 
At 22 May, 2010 09:31, Blogger GuitarBill said...

Anonymous lies, "...Mineta prefixes his faulty time with "maybe", while his other time, referring to the nationwide ground stop, is right on the mark. Continue to obscure the truth thought, it's your metier."

Question: How did Norman Mineta know to issue a "ground halt" at approximately "8:30 or 8:40 in the morning" when the North Tower had not been struck by the aircraft?

The North Tower was hit by Flight 11 at 8:45 AM.

So, I'll ask you again, how did Mineta know to issue a "ground halt" at at approximately "8:30 or 8:40 in the morning" when the North Tower wasn't hit until 8:45 AM?

I guess Mineta must have a crystal ball. Right shit-for-brains?

Sorry, but your alleged "time line" doesn't compute, shit-for-brains.

Face it, Anonymous, you're a compulsive liar, scumbag and a con artist.

So, how's that bowl of crow taste, Anonymous con artist?

And remember, scumbag, I'm just askin' questions that you can't answer...

 
At 22 May, 2010 11:50, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ha ha ha ha! No need to get irate, Billy Boy, you were pwned in the nuke debate and there's just no way you can turn back the hands of time and slap yourself for foolishly entering that debate in the first place. Sorry!

Norman Mineta prefixed the times you mentioned with "maybe". You conveniently left that out. His time referring to the nationwide ground stop was entirely correct.

Nice to see your head explode when confronted with your inability to win a debate with me. You're born to lose, Sideshow Bill, and by the way, you look like a dateless latent homosexual douche bag in that picture. Ewww.

 
At 22 May, 2010 14:10, Blogger GuitarBill said...

Anonymous tries another attempt at misdirection, "...Ha ha ha ha! No need to get irate, Billy Boy, you were pwned in the nuke debate and there's just no way you can turn back the hands of time and slap yourself for foolishly entering that debate in the first place. Sorry!"

That's not an answer, scumbag.

Again,

[4] Then perhaps you can explain why Israel has no record of nuclear weapons testing?

[7] And I'm still waiting for you to answer the question: Show me one nation that signed the NNPT that didn't test their nuclear weapons?

[8] How does a nation test its alleged nuclear arsenal "secretly"? Can you give me an example of ANY nation that's ever pulled that "miracle" off?

[9] So how did Israel manage to test their alleged "nuclear arsenal" without nuclear fallout?

NOW--YOU FUCKING PIECE-OF-SHIT--ANSWER THE GOD DAMNED QUESTIONS!

And remember, fuck-face, speculation and opinion from NGOs and ultra-biased Socialist International propaganda aren't proof--they're a circle jerk.

Continued...

 
At 22 May, 2010 14:11, Blogger GuitarBill said...

Continued...

Anonymous continues to lies like a rug and scribbles, "...Norman Mineta prefixed the times you mentioned with "maybe". You conveniently left that out. His time referring to the nationwide ground stop was entirely correct."

Making assertions without the benefit of evidence, shit-for-brains?

Norm Mineta claims that air traffic control issued a "ground hold on planes going into New York" that occurred, according to Mineta, at approximately "8:30 or 8:40 in the morning". Nevertheless, this was before the North Tower was stuck; thus, the actual decision was made MUCH later.

For example,

"...Regional air traffic managers on Monday offered a detailed chronology of Sept. 11, when two planes were hijacked from Boston, but refused to say more about what actually happened on the planes...Mike McCormick, air traffic control manager at the New York Center--the main control center for the area--made the unprecedented decision at 9:04 a.m. to declare 'ATC Zero,' meaning that no aircraft could fly into, out of or through the airspace over New York and the western Atlantic."

Source: Boston.com: FAA controllers detail Sept. 11 events .

Furthermore,

"...9:03-9:07 — New York and Boston regions' air traffic control officials stop takeoffs and landings. The New York Port Authority closes Newark International Airport...9:08-9:11 — Departures are stopped nationwide for aircraft heading to or through New York and Boston regions' airspace."

Source: USAToday: Part I: Terror attacks brought drastic decision: Clear the skies.

Starting to get the picture, Einstein? Clearly, Mineta's time for the "ground hold" order is OFF BY 30 MINUTES. The "ground hold" order was given 30 minutes after the time given by Mr. Mineta.

Source: thinkquest.org: September 11 Timeline.


So, how do you explain the 30 minute discrepancy, shit-for-brains?

That Norm is an amazing guy. In fact, he's so amazing that he ordered the ground halt BEFORE the planes struck the towers.

And you wonder why his testimony was rejected by the 9/11 Commission. And of course, this explains precisely why the lunatics for "9/11 truth" emphasize his testimony. Never mind that Mineta's testimony was contradicted by over 20 eyewitnesses. Never mind the pesky details, Mineta's fatally flawed time line can be used by the so-called "9/11 truth movement" to further their idiotic "cause", thus, it's true.

Isn't that precisely how your twisted logic works, asshole?

So, did Norman Mineta have a crystal ball on 11 September 2001?

And remember, shit-for-brains, I'm just askin' questions...

 
At 23 May, 2010 10:23, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Same nursery-school crowd drooling on each other.

 
At 24 May, 2010 16:44, Anonymous Arhoolie said...

Poor Sackdoily,it's so sad when alcohol takes its tremendous toll!

 
At 25 May, 2010 04:38, Blogger Triterope said...

Bill, with all due respect, don't you realize that they're never going to answer you?

And in another ironic word verification, mine for this post is "raven." Nevermore.

 
At 25 May, 2010 05:53, Anonymous sackcloth and ashes said...

'Poor Sackdoily,it's so sad when alcohol takes its tremendous toll!'

What? Is that as 'sad' as pretending to be a combat veteran? Or as 'sad' as claiming to have lived the life of a playboy in a country you only recognise from internet searches?

Do you want me to go into details, fucknuts, or are you going to admit to your latest attempt at fantasising, and get a life?

 
At 25 May, 2010 10:29, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oh, I've answered him, Tripeyoke, but someone who is completely fact-immune, truth-averse, and hell bent on winning the argument instead of establishing objective truth, cannot be expected to concede.

Sideshow Bill normally resorts to completely ignoring any counterargument and proceeds to repeat the same, refuted argument again and again.

If the last post argues for a flat earth, that does not make it so. At a certain point in time, you just have to the let the scavengers of the psycho ward alone. I do it strictly for the fun of ridiculing what appears to be a compulsive denialist. You can tell from the bold-faced capitals he knows I'm right. =)

Besides, recently, a FOIA request confirms Cheney was evacuated to the 'shelter' about ten minutes before the Pentagon was hit, after the Secret Service received reports of a plane "coming in" to DC. Guess what? The plane was 60 miles out, 40 miles out, 20 miles out....nothing like UA 93. Mineta was right.

 
At 25 May, 2010 11:41, Blogger GuitarBill said...

That's right, shit-for-brains, refuse to acknowledge that Mineta's testimony was contradicted by over 20 eyewitnesses. And don't for one second consider the ramifications of Mineta's erroneous time line. Instead, insist that Mineta's testimony somehow trumps the testimony of over 20 eyewitnesses.

You're deranged, Anonymous.

 
At 25 May, 2010 16:41, Blogger Triterope said...

Oh, I've answered him, Tripeyoke

No, you haven't. You make no fucking sense whatsoever.

 
At 27 May, 2010 07:00, Anonymous sackcloth and ashes said...

Let's put this red herring about Mineta to bed, shall we?:

http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Norman_Mineta

 
At 17 September, 2010 07:14, Blogger P said...

Norman Alexander Sander Hicks is BS. Before he can run for a seat in the US Senate he must first learn to pay his rent. He hasn't paid his rent in over 1 year and is currently to be evicted this month.

 

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