Wednesday, July 18, 2012

Angels and Demons

Long article on David Ray Grifter and his overarching conspiracy theory:

What does Griffin perceive as demonic behavior? US refusal to abolish nuclear weapons despite the knowledge that use of them could eliminate the human population, and resistance to transitioning from a carbon-based energy system to a sustainable one — that, to Griffin, is demonic.

Demonic power harnessed by humans, in Griffin’s view, came about through competition between tribes, especially in recent millennia. He writes that “perhaps the first great increase in demonic power” occurred in the Bronze Age 6,000 years ago, spiking “near the outset of the Iron Age 3,000 years ago.” Modern civilization has taken the demonic achievements of the past to almost inconceivable heights, with the emergence of “computerized weapons and the drive for an all-inclusive empire.”

It’s not just the weapons for Griffin, it’s all around us in the United States, appearing to radiate from some all-pervasive demonic spirit, infiltrating every aspect of our lives and penetrating every dimension of our psyches. For Griffin, we’re talking about the “demonic soul of a culture.”

Grifter's vision for the future?

These proposals are mere build-up to Griffin's very ambitious purpose for the Christian church — global democracy. Griffin is quick to try to distinguish his idea from the goal of the neocons, but he also acknowledges that he’s treading on the same ground that his Loose Change collaborator Alex Jones has spent years denouncing on his radio show: “The idea of creating a global government, to be sure, a huge and extremely controversial idea.”

Yes, that part certainly conflicts with Alex Jones. But the earlier part, about demonic power, is perfectly aligned with Jones' wacky beliefs about the New World Order and its plans.

47 Comments:

At 18 July, 2012 14:04, Blogger GuitarBill said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

 
At 18 July, 2012 14:07, Blogger GuitarBill said...

Sorry, I don't buy into the idea that Grifter is a sincere "theologian" or "9/11 researcher." Thus, Jan Frel's article is deeply flawed from the outset.

Why?

Grifter and the 9/11 "truth" movement in general are devoid of principle. What they value is their ability to nurse their own feelings of superiority, while they hide behind the anonymity provided by internet forums, which they routinely defile with their vain, asinine assertions. They are also well acquainted with cowardice. For example, troofers are anything but good citizens. If they are as committed to the troof as they would have us believe, a war against the US government would have broken out years ago. The war against the mythical "evil conspirators," however, has yet to occur, and you can rest assured that it never will happen. The reason the war has not broken out is that the deluded whack-jobs who are inclined to believe conspiracy nonsense are only very distantly acquainted if at all with notions such as morality and logic. Witness the behavior of SLC's resident compulsive liar and delusional coward, Brian Good.

I rest my case.

Again, the only thing that matters to a troofer is his ability to nurse his own feelings of superiority, principle be damned.

 
At 18 July, 2012 14:50, Blogger snug.bug said...

Gee. Project much, GutterBall?

 
At 18 July, 2012 14:53, Blogger GuitarBill said...

"...I self-critique constantly, RGT. That's why I'm never wrong." -- snug.bug

So what were you saying, shit sack?

 
At 18 July, 2012 19:15, Blogger snug.bug said...

Do you have a point?

 
At 18 July, 2012 19:25, Blogger GuitarBill said...

If you're looking for a point, check the top of your head, numb-nuts.

 
At 18 July, 2012 19:52, Blogger snug.bug said...

You want me to look for your point on my head?

That reminds me of a limerick:

Said a guy to the girl in his Fiat:
"Say! Where the hell is my key at?"
When he started to seek
she let out a shriek.
She said: "That's not where it's likely to be at!"

 
At 18 July, 2012 20:39, Blogger Ian said...

I see Brian is babbling about nothing, as usual, since he's a failed janitor who thinks invisible widows have questions.

Anyway, I find Griffin to be a senile fool from any number of perspectives. The idea that we're getting more "demonic" as civilization advances is nonsensical. Slavery is all but extinct. War is endangered. If we could move towards solving those two eternal plagues on humanity, solving global climate change should be rather simple.

 
At 18 July, 2012 21:43, Blogger snug.bug said...

You don't find torturing innocent goatherders to be demonic? You don't find raining death from the sky down on innocent civilians demonic? What's wrong with you?

 
At 18 July, 2012 23:59, Blogger GuitarBill said...

Personally, I find your fallacious "goatherders" [SIC] nonsense, which is nothing more than a red herring, "to be demonic." After all, you're merely trying to hijack the thread and change the subject, troll.

So what's new, scum.bag? Same shit, different day.

Yawn.

 
At 19 July, 2012 04:46, Blogger Ian said...

You don't find torturing innocent goatherders to be demonic? You don't find raining death from the sky down on innocent civilians demonic? What's wrong with you?

Poor Brian. He's just squealing hysterically because he's an unemployed janitor who believes in invisible widows.

You'd think with all the time you spend on the internet, given that you have no job, no friends, and no hobbies, you might have come across the ideas of Steven Pinker. Of course, you spend your time on the internet posting spam about Willie Rodriguez and calling people "girls", so it doesn't surprise me how much of an ignorant fool you are.

Also, you have the most hideous haircut I've ever seen.

 
At 19 July, 2012 09:06, Blogger snug.bug said...

GB, I see you have made no effort to establish that you had a point.

What you "think" is only based on your own ignorance. Start with the articles about the detentions and tortures in The New York Review of Books, written by Mark Danner.

 
At 19 July, 2012 09:09, Blogger snug.bug said...

So Ian, is Steven Pinker your idea of a guy with a good haircut?

 
At 19 July, 2012 11:25, Blogger testblog said...

Not sure else how to reach you guys, but thought you might be interested in this: Richard Gage gave a film screening at the official national headquarters for the American Institute of Architects and made the suggestion to his audience that they were there as part of some official capacity when they had actually just rented the space. http://www.architectmagazine.com/architecture/architects-shy-from-truther-conspiracy-theory_1.aspx

 
At 19 July, 2012 12:44, Blogger GuitarBill said...

"...GB, I see you have made no effort to establish that you had a point."

STFU, goat fucker. I made my point up-thread, and you know it--you God damned jackass.

You're trying to hijack the thread. Now get of here, troll. Go back to 911Flogger and peddle your delusional nonsense--you worthless anal wart.

 
At 19 July, 2012 15:26, Blogger Ian said...

What you "think" is only based on your own ignorance. Start with the articles about the detentions and tortures in The New York Review of Books, written by Mark Danner.

Poor Brian. He thinks I'm unfamiliar with the torture and detention policies of the Bush administration, "Taxi to the Dark Side" and all that.

I'm perfectly familiar with that. It just doesn't make the idea that magic thermite elves destroyed the WTC any more plausible. It also doesn't counter Steven Pinker's thesis.

So Ian, is Steven Pinker your idea of a guy with a good haircut?

Nobody cares about Steven Pinker's haircut.

 
At 20 July, 2012 09:42, Blogger snug.bug said...

nwor

 
At 20 July, 2012 14:46, Blogger M Gregory Ferris said...

"What does Griffin perceive as demonic behavior? US refusal to abolish nuclear weapons despite the knowledge that use of them could eliminate the human population, and resistance to transitioning from a carbon-based energy system to a sustainable one — that, to Griffin, is demonic."

Griffin is an idiot.

This self-loathing bullshit has been a staple of asshat behavior since the 1960s. While nukes can indeed kill a lot of people, the fact is between 1945 and 1979 521 nuclear warheads were detonated above ground. While there have been long term residual effects they have not slowed human population growth in any way.

In fact it is the use of nuclear power which can lead to a carbon-free energy system in this country.

"Demonic power harnessed by humans, in Griffin’s view, came about through competition between tribes, especially in recent millennia. He writes that “perhaps the first great increase in demonic power” occurred in the Bronze Age 6,000 years ago, spiking “near the outset of the Iron Age 3,000 years ago.” Modern civilization has taken the demonic achievements of the past to almost inconceivable heights, with the emergence of “computerized weapons and the drive for an all-inclusive empire.”"

So to sum it up, Dave thinks people are evil. Human nature is evil.

"’s not just the weapons for Griffin, it’s all around us in the United States, appearing to radiate from some all-pervasive demonic spirit, infiltrating every aspect of our lives and penetrating every dimension of our psyches. For Griffin, we’re talking about the “demonic soul of a culture.”"

...and yet Dave has not fled the country. Dave is a failure as a theologian. The very act of interpreting what is evil and what is not IS WHERE EVIL HAS ALWAYS BEGUN.

I don't know why anyone takes this fool seriously.

 
At 20 July, 2012 15:07, Blogger Ian said...

Nobody does take that fool seriously.

Real thinkers, like Steven Pinker, argue (convincingly, I'd say), that we're getting better and better behaved as a civilization. Slavery and war were human universals for millenia, and now both are close to extinct.

Also, the evidence suggests that nuclear weapons have led to peace, not more war. The only time they've ever been used is when only one country had them. World War III between the US and Soviet Union was likely averted because neither side wanted it to go nuclear. Even a regime as deranged and unstable as North Korea's seems to want nukes as more of a bargaining chip than as an offensive weapon.

To an imbecile like Griffin, the above doesn't even register.

 
At 20 July, 2012 19:09, Blogger M Gregory Ferris said...

Plus we didn't invent nukes for fun, as I recall there was some kind of war going on. Things got out of control in the Cold War, but both countries thought they were defending themselves.

 
At 20 July, 2012 21:43, Blogger M Gregory Ferris said...

...and the first Aurora conspiracy theory is on the web:

http://www.naturalnews.com/036536_James_Holmes_shooting_false_flag.html

"This is not your run-of-the-mill crime of passion. It was a carefully planned, heavily funded and technically advanced attack. Who might be behind all this? The FBI, of course, which has a long history of setting up and staging similar attacks, then stopping them right before they happen."

...and my favorite:

"There is already conjecture that James Holmes may have been involved in mind-altering neuroscience research and ended up becoming involved at a depth he never anticipated. His actions clearly show a strange detachment from reality, indicating he was not in his right mind. That can only typically be accomplished through drugs, hypnosis or trauma (and sometimes all three)."

And the beat goes on...

 
At 21 July, 2012 08:00, Blogger ConsDemo said...

For those who believe global warming is a serious concern (I do), DRG is an embarrassment in more ways than one. Setting aside his nuttery on 9/11, it isn't evil government demons (or even evil industry demons, for the most part) that stop us from addressing global warming. Rather it is the reluctance of Joe public to make any sacrifices (such as paying more for fossil fuels) to restraining the things that are causing more greenhouse gases. Dumbasses like Grifter are as bad as the Heartland Institute because he muddies up the problem with his stupid conspiracy theories and "dark evil" forces when the problem is all of us and the politicians who pander to our worst instincts (such as Newt Gringrich's bs about $2.50 gas).

 
At 21 July, 2012 11:26, Blogger snug.bug said...

MGF's non sequiturs are, as usual, based on his own imaginings instead of the reality of what Griffin said.
His characterization as "human nature" the symbolic framework of myths, images, beliefs, ideologies, traditions, and habits that manipulate and bully us into destructive behaviors is simple-minded. His defense of the destructive power of military nukes on grounds that they were only used once and that peaceful atomic power is possible is irrational.

Ian's belief that nukes bring peace is similarly loony. If nukes bring peace, then why do we threaten war with Iran and North Korea over them? Is our official opposition to nukes in Iran then a deliberate effort to destabilize to benefit the war machine?

CD, like MGF, makes nobody responsible by saying we're all responsible. Global warming is the consumer's fault because they would use less oil if the price went up? So automobile manufacturers hypnotizing us into buying elephantine cars, government officials lying us into wars in the oil fields, and gutless news media spreading doubt that climate change is happening had nothing to do with it?

 
At 21 July, 2012 16:26, Blogger M Gregory Ferris said...

"His characterization as "human nature" the symbolic framework of myths, images, beliefs, ideologies, traditions, and habits that manipulate and bully us into destructive behaviors is simple-minded."

Man has rarely been bullied into destructive behavior. We usually embrace it. Yet that is the paradox isn't it? Those same cultures Griffin has got his intellectual diapers in a twist over also lead to every positive advance on mankind. The Greeks were philosophers, and they were also fierce warlords. Same with Rome, same the the Roman Catholic Church, etc.

It's who we are.


"His defense of the destructive power of military nukes on grounds that they were only used once and that peaceful atomic power is possible is irrational"

Nope. Based in fact.

Plus my argument was that 521 nukes were detonated above ground, not one. Then there's the basic fact they were used TWICE, and we end up with another classic Brian Goode mistake-riddled post.

Brian Goode, the "intellectual" face of 9/11 Troof.

 
At 22 July, 2012 08:18, Blogger snug.bug said...

MGF wrote: "Man has rarely been bullied into destructive behavior."

Is that something they taught you in the Chem 101 class you never had? Do you ever cite any actual truths? You seem to invent all your beliefs out of nothing.

MGF wrote: The Greeks were philosophers, and they were also fierce warlords.

That's like saying Americans are Nobel Prize Winners, and they're also Crack Heads. The philosophers were nor warlords, and the warlords were not philosophers.

Your defense of the destructive power of military nukes on grounds that they were only used once and that peaceful atomic power is possible is irrational because it has nothing to do with Griffin's point. An item's factuality does not change its immateriality.

 
At 22 July, 2012 09:05, Blogger Ian said...

MGF's non sequiturs are, as usual, based on his own imaginings instead of the reality of what Griffin said.
His characterization as "human nature" the symbolic framework of myths, images, beliefs, ideologies, traditions, and habits that manipulate and bully us into destructive behaviors is simple-minded. His defense of the destructive power of military nukes on grounds that they were only used once and that peaceful atomic power is possible is irrational.

Ian's belief that nukes bring peace is similarly loony. If nukes bring peace, then why do we threaten war with Iran and North Korea over them? Is our official opposition to nukes in Iran then a deliberate effort to destabilize to benefit the war machine?

CD, like MGF, makes nobody responsible by saying we're all responsible. Global warming is the consumer's fault because they would use less oil if the price went up? So automobile manufacturers hypnotizing us into buying elephantine cars, government officials lying us into wars in the oil fields, and gutless news media spreading doubt that climate change is happening had nothing to do with it?



It's good to wake up on a Sunday morning to the hysterical babbling of a failed janitor, liar, and lunatic who was thrown out of the truth movement for being a sex stalker. Brian doesn't address a single point made, because he's too stupid, ignorant, and insane to understand what we're saying.

 
At 22 July, 2012 09:06, Blogger Ian said...

Also, Brian, have you gotten a normal haircut yet, or are you still asking the autistic kid up the block to cut your hair because you're unemployed and too poor to afford a haricut?

 
At 22 July, 2012 11:37, Blogger snug.bug said...

Ian, there were few actual points to address, since most of them were bare (and erroneous) assertions. I addressed most of the issues.

Your posts show that as a logician you'd do well to stick to the area of fashion criticism.

 
At 22 July, 2012 13:25, Blogger snug.bug said...

I'd recommend nip-slip cataloging as an appropriate entry area.

 
At 22 July, 2012 15:13, Blogger Ian said...

Ian, there were few actual points to address, since most of them were bare (and erroneous) assertions. I addressed most of the issues.

You addressed nothing, because you're too stupid and insane to understand what we're talking about.

Your posts show that as a logician you'd do well to stick to the area of fashion criticism.

A failed janitor who believes in magic thermite elves talking about logic. That's funny.

 
At 22 July, 2012 15:48, Blogger snug.bug said...

Empty and erroneous assertions are the best you can do. Thanks for making that clear.

 
At 22 July, 2012 16:21, Blogger Ian said...

Empty and erroneous assertions are the best you can do. Thanks for making that clear.

Squeal squeal squeal!

So Brian, it's been 11 years since 9/11. Do you plan on getting that new investigation within this decade? All the dumbspam you post at this blog doesn't appear to be getting you any closer to that goal.

 
At 22 July, 2012 16:57, Blogger snug.bug said...

I don't plan on anything. That doesn't change the facts that 273 of the widows' 300 questions remain unanswered, and the official explanations for the demise of the towers at Ground Zero are in violation of Newton's 1sr and 3rd laws and the 1st and 2d laws of thermodynamics.

Do you plan on embarking on a career of nip-slip commentary?

 
At 22 July, 2012 19:09, Blogger Ian said...

That doesn't change the facts that 273 of the widows' 300 questions remain unanswered, and the official explanations for the demise of the towers at Ground Zero are in violation of Newton's 1sr and 3rd laws and the 1st and 2d laws of thermodynamics.

Brian, I've already told you, the widows have no questions.

Also, your understanding of physics is pretty much what one would expect from a mentally ill unemployed janitor. Keep babbling about Newton's laws, Brian. It's as hilarious as your babbling about invisible widows.

 
At 22 July, 2012 19:14, Blogger snug.bug said...

Ian, you lie, and lie, and lie. I have demonstrated on this board many times that I understand the laws of physics just fine.

 
At 22 July, 2012 20:27, Blogger Ian said...

I have demonstrated on this board many times that I understand the laws of physics just fine.

No, you've demonstrated that you know absolutely nothing about physics, which is to be expected from a failed janitor who lives with his parents.

 
At 22 July, 2012 22:16, Blogger snug.bug said...

Ian, you lie about the laws of physics just as you lie about the widows.

 
At 23 July, 2012 16:36, Blogger Ian said...

Poor Brian. He's so stupid and delusional, he doesn't realize how much he's embarrassed himself by babbling about Newton's laws.

 
At 23 July, 2012 16:49, Blogger snug.bug said...

I haven't embarrassed myself and I haven't babbled. You've got nothing but lies. Your motivation for your persistent and obsessive lying must be very twisted.

 
At 23 July, 2012 17:27, Blogger Ian said...

I guess it's true that Brian hasn't been embarrassed. I mean, I don't think he's capable of being embarrassed. I mean, normal people would be humiliated if they had to live with their parents at age 60 because they couldn't hold down a job mopping floors.

Brian, of course, is not normal. He's suffering from paranoid delusions about widows and 9/11.

 
At 23 July, 2012 18:46, Blogger snug.bug said...

Ian, you belief that I don't mop floors because I can't mop floors has no basis in fact. You don't know what I do.

I wish you would stop flirting with me all the time. It's undignified. Grow up.

 
At 23 July, 2012 20:16, Blogger Ian said...

Ian, you belief that I don't mop floors because I can't mop floors has no basis in fact. You don't know what I do.

We know what you do, Brian. You spend every waking hour posting dumbspam all across the internet because you're an unemployed lunatic.

I wish you would stop flirting with me all the time. It's undignified. Grow up.

Poor Brian. He's tried every angle to get back at me. I'm really making him hysterical.

You could always just concede defeat and stop posting here, Brian.

 
At 23 July, 2012 22:40, Blogger snug.bug said...

nwor

 
At 24 July, 2012 04:43, Blogger Ian said...

Yup, Brian knows he's lost and I've won, so he has nothing left to say.

It's good that you're finally facing the reality of your own failure, and the failure of the truth movement in general.

 
At 24 July, 2012 08:47, Blogger snug.bug said...

The failure is yours, Ian. Any fool can get an MBA and lie on the internet.

 
At 24 July, 2012 16:02, Blogger Ian said...

The failure is yours, Ian. Any fool can get an MBA and lie on the internet.

The failure is mine?

I guess that means that the widows have had their questions answered, and that "meatball on a fork" has been published in an engineering journal, and that a new investigation into the "baffling" aspects of the WTC collapse is taking place.

These things must all be happening if I've failed. Can you confirm that they have happened, Brian?

 
At 24 July, 2012 22:55, Blogger snug.bug said...

The failure is yours because you find it necessary to lie obsessively and anonymously on the internet.

 

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