Updates
Greg Brannon, the Troofer-leaning candidate for the US Senate from North Carolina, drew 27% of the vote in the Republican primary. Crucially, he was unable to prevent Thom Tillis from getting over 40% of the vote, and thus Tillis avoided a possible run-off with Brannnon.
The kooks are patting themselves on the back that their ridiculous high rise safety initiative has garnered 6,342 signatures in two weeks, or less than 500 signatures a day. While that's an improvement over the first few days, when they were averaging 250 signatures, it's not even close to the 1000+ they needed to average in order to reach their goal of 70,000 signers.
posted by Pat @ 1:28 PM
26 comments
26 Comments:
It's unfortunate, Pat, that you closed discussion on the previous thread allowing Mr. Ferris to create a number of erroneous impressions.
First was his denial that Condi lied under oath. She lied under oath. She said the CIA memo of August 6, 2001 was not a warning. It was a warning. The CIA authors said it was a warning.
You can read the text and see that it warns of preparations for hijackings and planned attacks inside the USA.
Mr. Ferris reframes the issue from "was it a warning?" to "was it a warning about the WTC?" That doesn't change the fact that in claiming it was not a warning, she lied. Under Oath. On TV. To the faces of the 9/11 widows.
Mr. Ferris then tries to minimize the importance of the fact that the towers were designed to take a hit from a 4-engine airliner flying at 600 mph by pointing out that the 767 airliners that hit them had not been built yet at the time the towers were designed. The distinction between a 707 and a 767 is meaningless. They are about the same size. In fact the 4-engine 707 had a 29% better chance of damaging core columns than did the 2-engine 767.
He then claims that smart people scare me. Smart people don't scare me. I've lived among them my entire life.
He then claims I am ignorant about al Qaeda's Project Bojinka plot to fly hijacked airliners into landmark buildings, claiming I don't know about Ramzi Yousef's participation. I did not bring up Ramzi Yousef because he was irrelevant to the point. The US learned of the plot in 1995 when Abdul Hakim Murad was arrested.
Finally he criticizes me because I have only read half of the oral histories from the first responders--he was seeking to distract from the fact that he can not back up his claim that the oral histories showed that WTC7 was collapsing for an hour before 5:20 pm on 9/11/01.
Having interacted on this blog with Mr. Ferris for a number of years, I know we have discussed most of these issues in the past. His refusal to learn means that his "mistakes" are not honest ones.
"He then claims that smart people scare me. Smart people don't scare me. I've lived among them my entire life. "
The beauty of this sentence is that Brian admits he is not smart.
As for the topic, the crazy seems to be out of control, and with a representative democracy (a Republic) this will lead to more crazy, inept people in Congress.
Poor Brian. He's hysterical because MGF pwn3d him in the last thread, so he's going to keep posting ridiculous spam that makes him look even more ridiculous.
Don't worry, Brian. Your haircut is enough for everyone to know that you're ridiculous.
As I pointed out, Mr. Ferris lied in the other thread. Your belief that lies constitute pwnage goes a long way to explain why you are so confused.
Thanks for the fashion tips. I'll be sure to pass them on to my goldfish.
"The distinction between a 707 and a 767 is meaningless. "
Fully loaded 707 weighs 257,000 pounds.
Fully loaded 767 weighs 401,000 pounds.
Energy = Mass times Acceleration. You figure it out.
" I did not bring up Ramzi Yousef because he was irrelevant to the point. The US learned of the plot in 1995 when Abdul Hakim Murad was arrested."
Which meant the two guys behind it were in jail, and they had planted bombs on planes, these bombs exploded. Bojinka had failed. KSM and UBL came up with "The Planes Operation" in 1999. This became the 9/11/2001 attacks.
You fail.
"First was his denial that Condi lied under oath. She lied under oath. She said the CIA memo of August 6, 2001 was not a warning. It was a warning. The CIA authors said it was a warning.
You can read the text and see that it warns of preparations for hijackings and planned attacks inside the USA."
Yes, Bwian, I can read the text:
https://www.fas.org/irp/cia/product/pdb080601.pdf
It doesn't say any of that.
There is a reference to bin Laden wanting to hijack an airliner to GAIN THE RELEASE OF ABD AL-RAHMAN in 1998, but nothing about attacking the WTC. It also says there were70 different FBI investigations being conducted that were AQ related. The only direct threat mentioned in this briefing is about an attack using explosives.
Your stupidity is breath taking.
Typically, mgf just makes shit up.
The fully loaded 1962-era 707-320B airliner has a maximum takeoff weight of 336,000 pounds (not 257k).
A fully loaded 767-200ER has a maximum takeoff weight of 395,000 pounds. And of course, neither flight 11 nor flight 175 was fully loaded. Empty weight was only 181,000 pounds.
Ramzi Yousef was just a bomb-maker. Putting him and Murad in jail didn't put al Qaeda's Project Bojinka plot out of action. Clearly the plot went forward on 9/11. The point was that the plot and even prospective targets had been known since 1995.
The text of the August 6 pdb quite clearly warns of preparations for hijackings and planned attacks inside the US. Maybe Mr. Ferris's lips got tired before hew got to the second page of the memo.
Condi claimed the memo was not a warning. That was a lie. The CIA authors of the memo said it was a warning.
Brian, stop lying about having a goldfish. You lack the mental ability or the financial resources to take care of a goldfish.
Comments close automatically on posts that are older than 7 days. This helps us keep spammers under control.
"A fully loaded 767-200ER has a maximum takeoff weight of 395,000 pounds. And of course, neither flight 11 nor flight 175 was fully loaded. "
They had fuel.
Second, nobody with the WTC design team has ever produced their calculations for their claim about the building surviving a strike. Everyone inside the towers thought they were going over when the planes hit. The damage from the impact broke windows and cracked granite wall panels in the lobby of WTC 1. Both towers survived long enough to get the majority of people out.
"The text of the August 6 pdb quite clearly warns of preparations for hijackings and planned attacks inside the US."
No, it says that since 1998, the FBI observed suspicious activity consistent with hijacking OR other types of attacks including recent surveillance of Federal Buildings in New York.
It doesn't say hijacking of air craft to crash into buildings.
It also points out that the FBI was watching Al Qaeda in NYC, and these men were not the hijackers. It might even imply an FBI mole in the AQ NYC cell, and if it does it means that the AQ cell didn't know the details of the plan.
"Condi claimed the memo was not a warning. That was a lie."
It was part of the President's daily briefing. It was one of many reports of threats.
"Ramzi Yousef was just a bomb-maker. Putting him and Murad in jail didn't put al Qaeda's Project Bojinka plot out of action. Clearly the plot went forward on 9/11. The point was that the plot and even prospective targets had been known since 1995. "
As far as the FBI and Al Qaeda was concerned it did. The "Planes Operation" was conceived in 1999, and was separate from Bojinka, which was why it succeeded.
None of these facts have changed since 2001. No new information has been revealed that changes the 9-11 story in any significant way.
I don't refuse to learn, I refuse to buy into the rantings of lunatics.
Yes, Mr. Ferris, nobody disputes that the planes had fuel. 11,000 gals of jet fuel would weight about 66,000 pounds. Do you have a point?
Who cares what a bunch of office workers thought about the towers going over? MIT engineer Dr. Thomas Eagar compared the strike of the plane on the building to a "bullet hitting a tree". NOVA tells us that most structural engineers were surprised when the towers fell.
Please explain how "activities consistent with hijacking" differ from "preparations for hijackings". The Project Bojinka plan to fly hijacked airliners into landmark buildings had been known since 1995. There were warnings of attacks with airplanes from 3 FBI offices. There was an FBI memo entitled "Kamikaze Pilots". There were warnings of attacks involving airplanes from six countries.
The FBI was investigating two known al Qaeda agents inside the USA, both of them alleged 9/11 hijackers, who bought ten airlines tickets under their own real names dated 9/11/01.
Condi said the "Bin Laden Determined to Strike in US" memo was not a warning. It was a warning. Her claim was a lie.
The plan to fly airliners into landmark buildings was known in 1995. All you can do is quibble about the name. You look ridiculous.
Certainly there's new information. The Behrooz Sarshar story, for instance, is new information. The Footnote 44 information that the CIA threatened 9/11 activists about is new information.
You refuse to learn. You have no evidence that I am a lunatic, and much evidence of my lucidity.
Brian, do you think posting the same spam over and over again for 5+ years is going to accomplish anything?
Just curious.
The nearest I can tell is that he posts here for one or more of the following reasons:
1. He thinks people actully read his dumbspam and thinks his opinions will sway the way they think of 9/11. No one really reads his comments except the people who point and laugh at him.
2. He thinks by expressing his false beliefs about 9/11, he's superior to the rest of us. He isn't.
3. Having nothing else going in his life, this is the only thing that gives his life meaning.
4. He wants attention.
John, the reason I post here is because most of the comments here are lies, and I don't want to let the lies stand.
"Who cares what a bunch of office workers thought about the towers going over? MIT engineer Dr. Thomas Eagar compared the strike of the plane on the building to a "bullet hitting a tree"
Brian, do you not see any incongruity in this statement?
I guess if I were sitting in a tree that was struck by a bullet, I would feel the tree sway to the point it would tip over????? Holy Hyperbole batman
By the way Bri, What are Dr Eagers views on any of the collapses being pre planned and rigged?
But lets digress to the tree analogy.
Eager- "The estimates of seven to ten seconds is probably correct" (talking about the sway after impact). That would have to be some bullet.
Brian, you have not identified a single lie posted by any of us here.
Oh, so it's number 1. Thanks for clearing that up.
"Please explain how "activities consistent with hijacking" differ from "preparations for hijackings"."
Means the activities can be something else.
Plus, on 9/10/2001, Hijacking an airliner had different connotations than on 9/12/2001.
"The Project Bojinka plan to fly hijacked airliners into landmark buildings had been known since 1995."
Yes, after the masterminds had been arrested. Flying planes into buildings was a side, fringe element to the plan. Blowing up jets over the Pacific was the central pillar of Bojinka, and they attempted to carry it out.
"There were warnings of attacks with airplanes from 3 FBI offices."
Neat. Did they specify targets?
"There was an FBI memo entitled "Kamikaze Pilots". There were warnings of attacks involving airplanes from six countries."
Neat, did they specify targets?
"The FBI was investigating two known al Qaeda agents inside the USA, both of them alleged 9/11 hijackers, who bought ten airlines tickets under their own real names dated 9/11/01."
So we're arresting Arabs for buying plane tickets now? I have news for you, terrorists fly every day (even now) without hijacking or destroying aircraft.
You try so hard, yet the fact was the FBI and CIA were operating under limitations implemented by people like you - paranoid nimrods.
Your guilt in 9/11 is obvious, your beliefs got Americans killed, your delusions about 9/11 allowed us to invade Iraq without serious debate, and has kept us in Afghanistan too long.
You are a war criminal. Go away.
John, I don't think I'm superior to the liars on this board. I KNOW I'm superior to the liars on this board. The point it to try to prevent their lies from being believed.
Mr. Ferris, the CIA memo warns of preparations for attacks. Since the four hijackings happened just a month later and no other attacks happened, it seems safe to infer that the activities consistent with hijackings were in in fact preparations for hijackings. What's the point of quibbling about the nature of the warnings when the point is that the warnings were warnings?
There's no reason to think Yousef and Murad were the masterminds of Project Bojinka. Certainly their capture did not prevent 9/11. Why quibble about masterminds when the point is that the al Qaeda plot to fly hijacked airliners into the WTC had been known since 1995? The prospective targets of the plot were the WTC, Pentagon, Sears Tower, and the TransAmerica Pyramid. The FBI warning from Minneapolis said that Mr. Moussaoui was the kind of guy who might want to fly a planre into the WTC.
The warnings associated with the FBI "Kamikaze Pilots" memo specified big cities as targets. And of course the Project Bojinka target list had been known since 1995.
There's no need to "arrest Arabs for buying plane tickets". The purchasers of the ten plane tickets were known al Qaeda agents with visa problems. There wasn't even any need for detention. If people simply followed them around their associates could have been identified. Revealing to them the surveillance might have caused them to abort the mission.
No civil libertarian anywhere objects to the legitimate surveillance of known terrorist operatives. You're being silly.
I didn't get anybody killed. Condi did. (Remember Condi? She lied under oath to the faces of the 9/11 widows.) I'm no criminal. Condi is.
John, I don't think I'm superior to the liars on this board. I KNOW I'm superior to the liars on this board. The point it to try to prevent their lies from being believed.
Given that Brian is the only liar on this board, this statement makes no sense.
Also, nobody cares what Rice said to your phony "widows"
More Liananity from Lyin Ian.
More Liananity from Lyin Ian.
Yup, Brian can't refute me, so he just posts spam.
" Why quibble about masterminds when the point is that the al Qaeda plot to fly hijacked airliners into the WTC had been known since 1995? "
Even though the 9/11 plan was developed in 1999.
Add calendars and linear time to the long list of things Brain doesn't understand.
John, I don't think I'm superior to the liars on this board. I KNOW I'm superior to the liars on this board. The point it to try to prevent their lies from being believed.
So it's number 1 and number 2. Cool.
Nothing here worthy of response.
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