Top Lies and Deceptions In Loose Change 31-37
I never got around to posting these, on account of breaking news, but here are the rest (for now at least).
31. Claim: United Flight 93 landed at Cleveland Airport
Truth: This was a false report, it was immediately corrected by the AP, but it still lives on in Internet legend.
32. Claim: The last 3 minutes of the United 93 cockpit recorder are unaccounted for.
Truth: This was based upon initial incorrect reports of the crash time. Further analysis (see Page 48 of PDF) indicated the recorder included everything.
33. Claim: The cell phone calls from the hijacked planes could not have taken place due to the technological impossibility of placing calls from a high altitude.
Truth: Most of the calls were from Airfones, which quite obviously work fine in the air. The few cell phone calls which were made could have easily been made due to the fact that the hijackers reduced altitude to steer their planes into their targets.
34. Claim: Nine hijackers turned up alive after 9/11
Truth: All of these claims turned up immediately after 9/11. A few were just people with the same name, the rest have been unverified. To date, none of the 19 hijackers has been seen in public.
35. Claim: The bin Laden confession tape must be fake because bin Laden is lefthanded, and the man in the tape uses his right hand to write.
Truth: Aside from the fact that many left handers are ambidextrous, in Muslim culture the left hand is considered “unclean”. Osama, being a strict Muslim would most likely not prefer to use his left hand.
36. Claim: The bin Laden confession tape must be fake because bin Laden is wearing a gold ring, which is forbidden by Islamic law.
Truth: Islamic law only forbids men from wearing gold. There is no way of telling what metal the ring is made out of, and in fact he is seen wearing the same ring in other tapes.
37. Claim: $160 billion in gold is missing from the World Trade Center.
Truth: Despite the fact that this would be over half the world’s gold reserves, and be nearly impossible to move secretly, this has never been reported by any reputable news source.
38. Claim: WTC owner Larry Silverstein profited off of a massive insurance settlement from the attacks.
Truth: Silverstein only owned WTC7, he merely held the lease for the twin towers. While purchasing the lease he originallly wanted a smaller insurance policy, but was required to increase it as part of the deal. What money he did get, he used to rebuild. It has never been shown that he profited off of the attacks.
39. Claim: The Project for a New American Century (PNAC) called for a "New Pearl Harbor" which resulted in 9/11 helping them acheive their goals.
Truth: PNAC did not call for anything, they merely stated the timetable for their transformation would be slower. The transformation dealt with technological modification of the military, and has had absolutely nothing to do with the results of 9/11 or the invasion of Iraq.
40. Claim: A reporter at the Pentagon reported there was no trace of flight 77.
Truth: The reporter, Jamie McIntyre, was responding to a question regarding whether the plane crashed outside of the Pentagon. In the rest of his news reports he talks extensively about the crash, including handling pieces of the airplane himself.
41. Claim: A United Airlines employee reported seeing the tail number of United 93 on another flight in April 2003.
Truth: FAA records show that this was nothing more than him writing down the number of this flight incorrectly. There is no record of this airplane showing up anywhere since September 11, 2001
posted by James B. @ 5:34 PM
74 comments
74 Comments:
# 34 - I think this is worth a look:
http://www.welfarestate.com/911/
the rest of the points don't bother me as much as #34 does.
All of these claims came in the first few weeks after 9/11. Isn't it a little odd none of them have shown up on Al Jazeera since then? You would think they would be interested in the biggest story of the century. And why would the "conspirators" pick a bunch of living people to blame, who were not involved in the plot and could blow the whole thing?
http://www.911myths.com/html/still_alive.html
911 Myths
Like you watch Al Jazeera, or have ANY idea what is being broadcast outside Bill O'reillys ass. Funny.
31. Claim: United Flight 93 landed at Cleveland Airport
Truth: This was a false report, it was immediately corrected by the AP, but it still lives on in Internet legend.
---- immediately? Really! Your source please?
32. Claim: The last 3 minutes of the United 93 cockpit recorder are unaccounted for.
Truth: This was based upon initial incorrect reports of the crash time. Further analysis indicated the recorder included everything.
----sure it did! Source please?
33. Claim: The cell phone calls from the hijacked planes could not have taken place due to the technological impossibility of placing calls from a high altitude.
Truth: Most of the calls were from air phones, which quite obviously work fine in the air. The few cell phone calls which were made could have easily been made due to the fact that the hijackers reduced altitude to steer their planes into their targets.
Lie, distortion, false belief. Listen, I know you guys don't have any money but maybe sell a couple comic books and buy a plane ticket on a commercial plane. This is easy enough to validate for yourself. You will not get a signal more than 30 seconds after takeoff. STILL. 5 years later.
34. Claim: Nine hijackers turned up alive after 9/11
Truth: All of these claims turned up immediately after 9/11. A few were just people with the same name, the rest have been unverified. To date, none of the 19 hijackers has been seen in public.
Nor has there been any explanation as to how the FBI knew all 19 hijackers within a couple days of the attack, nor has the FBI actually admitted they know who really did it.
---"t should be noted that attempts to confirm the true identities of these individuals are still under way. The FBI asks anyone who has ever seen or has information about these individuals to immediately contact the nearest FBI office or the toll free hotline number 1-866..."
FBI release 9/27/01
No changes were made, I guess they got it right the first time. To think after years of bungling they figured it all out after the fact. Or not. Who cares, right?
35. Claim: The bin Laden confession tape must be fake because bin Laden is lefthanded, and the man in the tape uses his right hand to write.
Truth: Aside from the fact that many left handers are ambidextrous, in Muslim culture the left hand is considered “unclean”. Osama, being a strict Muslim would most likely not prefer to use his left hand.
-lame. If he was ambidexterous, his FBI profile (they are so good, right?) would say ambidexterous. On your planet, left handed people might switch to their right hand for aesthetic purposes. On Earth, left handed people have to write with their left hand. It's actually where the term 'left-handed' originated from. I looked it up.
36. Claim: The bin Laden confession tape must be fake because bin Laden is wearing a gold ring, which is forbidden by Islamic law.
Truth: Islamic law only forbids men from wearing gold. There is no way of telling what metal the ring is made out of, and in fact he is seen wearing the same ring in other tapes.
--- it would appear so.
37. Claim: $160 billion in gold is missing from the World Trade Center.
Truth: Despite the fact that this would be over half the world’s gold reserves, and be nearly impossible to move secretly, this has never been reported by any reputable news source.
-- COMEX had massive amounts of precious metals in the WTC. Call them and ask. I don't know the source for this info but your "Truth" is beyond bunk. It would be 10% of the above ground gold, a conservative estimate since most people with lots of it don't report it or its whereabouts for obvious reasons. Less than 10% of the 1.8 (much more currently) trillion dollars in total gold reserves. 160 billion dollars worth of gold, assuming $400 per ounce (way below current mkt value) is about 12,000 tons. Gold is heavy! You could fit that much in your living room. Gold weighs 1200 pounds per cubic foot. Implausible, perhaps. 'Impossible'...hardly.
---
31
http://blogs.scripps.com/wcpo/staff/2006/02/wcpocoms_flight_93_story.html
32 It is in the 9/11 commission report
33 I have posted on this 3 times, if you have any specific arguments please make them there, rather than insulting someone who has flown on way more planes than I would like.
34. Yeah, it was so hard for them to figure out who the hijackers were. 4-5 Arab men all seated in first class on every plane. What a coincidence! I think even the FBI could put together that pattern.
36. Wow, I am glad you put so much faith in our intelligence services. They aren't sure whether Iran has nuclear weapons or not, but they sure know which hand Osama uses to button his fly.
37. Yeah, $160 billion worth of gold, and nobody noticed. Get real.
Al Jazeera = BBC under cover. The divide and conquer runs deep.
No mainstream media is good media no matter where you’re at.
What, Al Jazeera is too pro-American for you? Good luck with your jihad buddy. Allahu akhbar.
31- your link didn't work for me. But if it is on a blog then it must be true.
32- 9/11 commission report is not a source, you guys keep trying to pass that off. One instance of thousands- the 9/11 commission found that no CIA funding of Al Qaeda ever took place. Sources? Zawahri's published memoirs and a years old CBS news interview with a retired CIA agent.
Can you, even in you deep denial, admit those are probably not the best sources for establishing facts pertaining to the matter?
The 9/11 commission report is fiction, through and through.
33 I have posted on this 3 times, if you have any specific arguments please make them there, rather than insulting someone who has flown on way more planes than I would like.
My specific argument is cell phones won't work 30 seconds after takeoff, and cell towers can't locate your cell when you're traveling 500 mph. Cell towers are built on hills, and the antennas are pointed downwards.
34. Yeah, it was so hard for them to figure out who the hijackers were. 4-5 Arab men all seated in first class on every plane. What a coincidence! I think even the FBI could put together that pattern.
http://911review.org/Sept11Wiki/PassengerList.shtml
36. Wow, I am glad you put so much faith in our intelligence services. They aren't sure whether Iran has nuclear weapons or not, but they sure know which hand Osama uses to button his fly.
They knew where to find every relative of his in the United States and fly them out of the country on private jets within 48 hours of the attack. I think they could have gleaned some personal information about him while they were doing that. Oh, wait...they weren't allowed to ask. You're right, I'm wrong. But don't change your story now, go with "he pretends to be right-handed because he's muslim". I liked that one better.
37. Yeah, $160 billion worth of gold, and nobody noticed. Get real.
Some $230 million worth of gold was discovered in a lorry in a tunnel under the Center in November 2001. 21 We have seen no reports of other caches being found. However, Comex was reported to have at least $950 million worth of gold stored in its vault under the Center, and the fate of that haul remains unknown. 22
[page 107]
21 "Below Ground Zero, Silver and Gold", New York Times, 1 November 2001
22 National Real Estate Investor, 19 November 2001
[page 240]
roger_sq:
Concerning #36- Besides the point that you still believe the tired, and utterly debunked Michael Moore claim that the Bin Laden family left 48 hours later (they actually left more then a wekk later, September 20th to be more exact), the fact is people who are born left handed can actually learn to write with their right hands. Heck, it was even common to force left handed children to write with their right hands. And, believe it or not, it is still common practice in the Islamic world.
As for #33, straight from the horses mouth:
When a call is placed, information is sent from the phone handset to a receiver in the plane's belly and then down to one of the 135 ground radio base stations located strategically throughout North America. From there it is sent to one of three main ground switching stations and then over to the public telephone network to the receiving party's location. For satellite calls mainly over water: When a call is placed, information is sent first to an orbiting satellite. From there, the call transmission path is similar to the North American system, except that calls are sent to a satellite earth station instead of a radio base station.
http://www22.verizon.com/airfone/af_faqs.html
33. Claim: The cell phone calls from the hijacked planes could not have taken place due to the technological impossibility of placing calls from a high altitude.
Truth: Most of the calls were from Airfones, which quite obviously work fine in the air. The few cell phone calls which were made could have easily been made due to the fact that the hijackers reduced altitude to steer their planes into their targets.
no, stupid. i cant even get cell phone reception in my car going 55mph down a high. so how would the get a reception flying over nothing?
highway**
This blog is for defending corruption.
If you post any real info on this blog they will just delete your post. They really only encourage weak info. Anything that they can't debunk gets deleted. Dont waste your time here.
Sumy, I have never deleted any comments, even the really profane, ridiculous and insulting ones. I don't believe Pat has either. Just look at the sheer numbers of comments on here by conspiracy theorists. We even allowed a conspiracy theorist to make his own post, completely unedited by us, and he has received over 120 comments on it. I don't think you can accuse us of not being open to information.
As opposed to when Pat and I went on the Loose Change forum, they completely banned us from the forum within 24 hours, even though the thread we were commenting on was started by their people and was talking about us.
At 5:17 PM, bartelomeus00 said...
This post has been removed by the author.
At 8:14 AM, andytheashton said...
This post has been removed by the author.
hmmm...never deleted any comments huh...interesting.
At 5:17 PM, bartelomeus00 said...
This post has been removed by the author.
At 8:14 AM, andytheashton said...
This post has been removed by the author.
hmmm...never deleted any comments huh...interesting.
2:58 PM
Ever use blogger? Notice that you are the author of the comment.
it's quite easy to build a big straw-man by debunking some of the errors in loose change. what is not so easy is coming to grips with all of the true claims in loose change, and especially coming to grips with all the very important facts not included in loose change. The site www.911myths.org, mentioned by the creators of this blog, claims to be an objective website, saying that it only wants to show that some claims are without merit, but the site seems to me to be a deliberate disinformation website. They cherry-pick the claims that they can most easily cast doubt on, and they never mention the numerous and damning true claims – the real evidence. They don’t allow people to contact them to refute their claims (and thus test their objectivity), and their dishonesty is often obvious. For example, in “debunking” the claim that progressive collapse hasn’t happened before, the website mentions L’Ambience Plaza and the Ronan Point apartment building. They expect website visitors to not actually look into what actually happened in these 2 incidents:
L'Ambience Plaza was still in the early stages of construction and was using a special construction method – the lift-slab system – and wasn’t doing it properly. the Ronan Point incident, which happened in London in 1968, is most often cited by disinformation websites, although they don’t tell you what actually happened - this incident actually consisted of one tiny corner of balconies, and the collapsed balconies were short cantilever sections supported by the building's main structure - so there were no steel beams to prevent this little corner of balconies from collapsing progressively. To use these incidents to “debunk” the clear evidence of controlled demolition, without mentioning what actually happened, shows deliberate dishonesty.
Loose Change did make some errors, but to call these ‘lies’ is another matter entirely. As for this issue of bin Laden’s ring, this was indeed an error, but the fact remains that the video is very poor-quality, and although in some frames the person looks somewhat like bin Ladin, in others the person looks nothing like bin Laden. Also, it seems a bit ridiculous that the Administration just happened to find this tape in a house in Jalalabad, and they couldn’t give any other details of how they found it. Bin Laden actually denied involvement in the attacks, as pointed out in Loose Change. Also, the tape released by the Administration just before the 2004 election was obviously fraudulent. This video is much better in quality and the person looks nothing like bin Laden, if you compare actual photos of bin Laden to the person in the video. It was reported in Pakistan months ago that bin Laden was dead (he had health problems before 9/11), but the Administration is perpetuating him as a political tool. It is possible that the person in the 2004 video doesn’t look like the usual bin Laden as a result of his declining health, but even if bin Laden was involved, he was a dupe of the higher powers in Washington who planned the whole thing – terrorists were definitely involved, but the Pakistani intelligence agency (ISI) acted as a middle-man between Washington insiders and the terrorists. I give evidence for this below. Loose Change made minor errors, but these disinformation websites are the liars. There is a lot of strong evidence that Loose Change left out. The makers were doing a good thing, but they only gave us the tip of the iceberg. For example, Loose Change mentions building 7, but it should have highlighted building 7. building 7 may be the single most crucial piece of evidence:
first, my humble assessment of what happened: hijackers were involved, but they were puppets of Washington insiders, without knowing it. Pakistani intelligence agency (ISI) was the middle-man. Israeli intelligence agency (Mossad) and Israeli government knew the attacks were coming, and may have been directly involved (note - this isn't saying 'the Jews did it.' there are many many Jewish people who oppose the Israeli government, including Israelis). Flight 77 probably did hit the Pentagon, and was probably a red herring to throw us off the scent and discredit the truth movement. the CIA recently released videos, but they don't show anything more than the 5 previously-released frames. they may be planning to release the videos that actually show Flight 77 at some point and say, "hey look fools. here's flight 77 hitting the Pentagon." The war games on Sept.11, under the direction of Cheney and Rumsfeld, were a smokescreen and an excuse to explain why the Air Force did not respond for over an hour, when the CIA knew planes had been hijacked. Finally, without a hint of uncertainty, WTC 1, 2, and 7 were definitely brought down by controlled demolition. WTC 7 is the most damning:
(1) WTC (a) WTC 1, 2, and 7 were the first 3 steel-frame buildings in history to (allegedly) collapse due to fire. Several steel-frame skyscrapers around the world have had huge fires that burned throughout several floors for several hours, and none of these buildings collapsed. The official explanation of the collapse of WTC 1 and 2 claims that the impact of the aircrafts weakened the structures (which of course they would have to some degree), but NIST actually admits to fudging its models to make them more plausibly (to the casual researcher) explain the collapses, and it also simply lies and contradicts itself. For example, they alter the path of flight 175 so they can argue that it damaged the core columns. The report is misleading in many other ways. much more here:
http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/nist/
The NIST Report completely ignores building 7, saying it will be considered “at a later date.” The Bush-appointed, 10-member corruption-squad known as the 9-11 Commission also ignored building 7 - most Americans don't even know about building 7, because the media have ignored it. (b) WTC 7 is the most obvious - no jet hit this building, and although some mention that the fuel tanks in the building may have contributed, FEMA said they were all intact, and, as already noted, fires to not make steel-frame buildings collapse, and random fires could not, by any stretch of the imagination, make a steel-frame building collapse so methodically into a neat little rubble pile within its own footprint, maintaining perfect radial symmetry all the way down, and falling at freefall speed. This only happens with controlled demolition. Unfortunately, most people are unaware of building 7, but the word is spreading thanks to Loose Change and the work of many serious researchers. FEMA was actually able to obtain sections of the steel beams from WTC 7, and it found sulfidation in combination with rapid corrosion – a trademark of the use of thermate (the military version of thermite) cutter chargers – the presence of sulfidation and rapid corrosion can only be explained by the use of thermate. the fires in WTC 7 were only on partial sections of 2 floors, and even if the fires had engulfed the building for days, it would not have collapsed. Silverstein's slip-up about 'pulling it' also gave it away. his publicist later claimed that Silverstein meant 'pulling' the firefighters out of the building. 'pulling' is a term commonly used to refer to controlled demolition. FEMA has actually admitted that it cannot explain the collapse of building 7 (b) the official explanation ignores the thermal conductivity of steel. There would have been a massive heatsink from the steel beams, and the heat would have spread to other parts of the steel-beam mesh, rather than weakening proximal beams (b) the 'Pancake Theory', used to describe the collapse mode, has never existed as a collapse mechanism theory in structural engineering prior to 9-11. ‘Pancaking’ has happened before, but to one building (L'Ambience Plaza) that was still in the early stages of construction and was using a special construction method – the lift-slab system – and wasn’t doing it properly, and what happened wasn’t called ‘pancaking’ before 9-11. the term 'progressive collapse' has been used before, but no steel-frame building has ever collapsed due to this mechanism. the Ronan Point incident, in 1968, is most often cited by disinformation websites, although they don’t tell you what actually happened - this incident actually consisted of one tiny corner of balconies, and the collapsed balconies were short cantilever sections supported by the building's main structure - so there were no steel beams to prevent this little corner from collapsing progressively. (c)'squibs', a trademark of controlled demolition, can be seen in the videos of the collapses, and are especially obvious in WTC 7. the offical story attempts to explain them away as concrete dust and debris being pushed out of the windows by the force of the collapse, but they occur much below the level of collapse, and they occur just prior to the initiation of collapse in WTC 7. (d) Marvin Bush's contract with Stratesec(Securicom), the company that provided security for the WTC, United Airlines, and Dulles Internation Airport, was set to end on 9/10/01, the day before 9/11. (e) I've verified that there were several unexplained evacuations in the WTC towers in the weeks prior to the attacks: Ben Fountain, a financial analyst with Fireman's Fund, was coming out of the Chambers Street Station, headed for his office on the 47th floor of the south tower. "How could they let this happen? They knew this building was a target. Over the past few weeks we'd been evacuated a number of times, which is unusual. I think they had an inkling something was going on." (Source: People Magazine. Sept. 12th 2001). (f) Battalion Chief Orio J. Palmer had reached the 78th floor of the South Tower by 9:48 -- 11 minutes before the explosive collapse began -- and reported via radio "two isolated pockets of fire." (g) all three buildings maintained prefect radial symmetry as they collapsed – if the buildings had collapsed due to randomly-placed fires (which simply doesn’t happen – even full-fledged infernos don’t make steel-frame buildings collapse), they would not have fallen straight down into their own footprints (h) as Professor Steven Jones of BYU points out, flowing pools of molten steel were reported by eyewitnesses – impossible with hydrocarbon fires, but easily explained by the use of thermate cutter charges (i) the temperatures simply were not hot enough, and weren’t sustained long enough, to weaken the steel, let alone melt it, in such a short period of time, especially considering the thermal conductivity of steel (j) the explosive force of the collapses cannot be explained by mere gravity – debris was ejected out several hundred feet – huge steel beams were found 300 feet away.
Pakistani Intelligence Agency (ISI, which was founded by the CIA and still has close ties with the CIA, like Al Qaeda) was the middle-man between Washington insiders and the clueless terrorists:
October 9, courtesy of the Times of India:
"While the Pakistani Inter Services Public Relations claimed that former ISI [Pakistani intelligence] director-general Lt-Gen Mahmud Ahmad sought retirement after being superseded on Monday, the truth is more shocking. Top sources confirmed here on Tuesday that the general lost his job because of the 'evidence' India produced to show his links to one of the suicide bombers that wrecked the World Trade Center. The U.S. authorities sought his removal after confirming the fact that $100,000 were wired to WTC hijacker Mohammed Atta from Pakistan by [Omar Saeed] at the instance of General Mahmud [Ahmad]."
September 9—two days before 9/11 — Karachi News made the following observation:
"ISI Chief Lt-Gen [Mahmud Ahmad's] week-long presence in Washington has triggered speculation about the agenda of his mysterious meetings at the Pentagon and National Security Council . . . What added interest to his visit is the history of such visits. Last time Ziauddin Butt, [General Ahmad's] predecessor, was here during Nawaz Sharif's government, the domestic politics turned topsy-turvy within days. That this is not the first visit by [General Ahmad] in the last three months shows the urgency of the ongoing parleys."
Israeli intelligence agency (Mossad) and government insiders knew the attacks were coming, and may have been involved in them:
Mossad agents were filming the towers before the airplanes even hit them, and began dancing and celebrating when the planes hit and when the towers collapsed :
This is a link to the article originally published by ABC News:
http://www.uscrusade.com/forum/config.pl/noframes/read/1405
Source: ABC News, Saturday, June 22nd, 2002.
“A counterintelligence investigation by the FBI concluded that at least two of them were in fact Mossad operatives, according to the former American official, who said he was regularly briefed on the investigation by two separate law enforcement officials.”
Source: The Forward, March 15th, 2002
Larry A. Silverstein – signed a 99-year lease on the World Trade Center 6 weeks before the attacks. A $3,500,000,000 insurance policy, specifically covering acts of terrorism, was included in the lease. This lease was an unprecedented privatization of the WTC complex. After 9/11, Silverstein demanded $7 billion, claiming that the two planes constituted two separate acts of terrorism.
Larry A. Silverstein is a close friend of Ariel Sharon, Benjamin Netanyahu, and Ehud Barak: “Shortly after the events of September 11, Prime Minister Ariel Sharon called Larry Silverstein, a Jewish real estate magnate in New York, the owner of the World Trade Center's 110-story Twin Towers and a close friend, to ask how he was. Since then they have spoken a few more times. Two former prime ministers - Benjamin Netanyahu, who this week called Silverstein a "friend," and Ehud Barak, whom Silverstein in the past offered a job as his representative in Israel - also called soon after the disaster.”
http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=97338&contrassID=3&subContrassID=0&sbSubContrassID=0
Flight 77 and the Pentagon:
JUNE 2001: The Pentagon initiates new instructions for military intervention in the case of a highjacking. these new instructions state that, for all "nonimmediate" responses (whatever that means), the Department of Defense must get permission directly from the Secretary of Defense (Rumsfeld).
Source: Joint Chiefs of Staff Document:
http://www.dtic.mil/doctrine/jel/cjcsd/cjcsi/3610_01a.pdf
http://www.911review.com/means/standdown.html
October 24, 2000: the Pentagon conducted the first of two training exercises called MASCAL (Mass Casualty), which simulated a Boeing 757 hitting the Pentagon.
Source: The U.S. Army Military District of Washington (MDW)
True, Charles Burlingame retired 20 years earlier, but he still participated in the MASCAL exercise at the Pentagon, a year before the attacks:
Charles F. Burlingame III was the pilot of flight 77. He was an F-4 pilot in the Navy, and as his last Navy mission, he had helped craft Pentagon response plans in the event of a commercial airliner hitting the Pentagon.
Source: Associated Press. August 22, 2002
http://anderson.ath.cx:8000/911/pen08.html
Barbara Honegger, who worked in the White House under Reagan, points out another coincidence. Researching press reports, she found a 9/16/01 Washington Post story about the pilot of AA flight 77 that, on the morning of 9/11, was said to have crashed into the Pentagon.
Here's Barbara Honegger:
...the main pilot of the 9-11 Pentagon plane, former Navy and then Navy Reservist pilot Charles Burlingame, had recently, in a Reserve assignment at the Pentagon, been part of a Task Force that drafted the Pentagon's emergency response plan on what to do in case a plane hit the building - which his own plane then did. It is therefore very possible - in fact extremely likely, if not certain - that this 'task force' that Flight 77 pilot "Chick" Burlingame was part of was the Cheney counterterrorism preparedness task force, and that the Pentagon plane pilot, therefore, directly knew and even worked with/for Cheney. and
Burlingame's 9-11 Pentagon plane not only hit the Pentagon that morning, it struck a Command and Control center for that morning's counterterrorism "game" exercise, killing most, if not all, of the "players". We know this because Army personnel from Ft. Monmouth, New Jersey were on special duty assignment at the Pentagon that morning for an emergency response exercise and were killed when Burlingame's plane hit. Ft. Monmouth, New Jersey also happens to be the headquarters for White House/Presidential communications, including therefore probably also for Air Force One (this is discoverable) -- and recall the warning "Air Force One is next" and the 'secret code' which was called into the White House that morning which WH press secretary Ari Fleischer revealed as a means of explaining why Pres. Bush left Florida for a military base and did not return to the White House. This "warning" was probably called into the White House, if true, by either the Ft. Monmouth White House communications headquarters and/or the Ft. Monmouth counterterrorism exercise "game" players temporarily at the Pentagon that morning.
This means the pilot of Flight 77 participated in MASCAL in October of 2000, an exercise which simulated a Boeing 757 crashing into the Pentagon.
Coincidence?
Flight 77 hit the one and only section of the Pentagon that had been renovated to withstand just such an attack:
"Luck — if it can be called that — had it that the terrorists aimed the Boeing 757 at the only part of the Pentagon that already had been renovated in an 11-year, $1.3 billion project meant to bolster it against attack. That significantly limited the damage and loss of life by slowing the plane as it tore through the building and reducing the explosion's reach." Source: USA Today (1/01/02)
“Not all the offices were occupied that morning because of the renovation. In addition, the outer ring had been reinforced by floor-to-ceiling steel beams that ran through all five floors. Between them was a Kevlar-like mesh, similar to the material in bulletproof vests, which kept masonry from becoming shrapnel. Together, the beams and the mesh formed a citadel that kept the top floors from collapsing for about 35 minutes, time enough for some people to escape. New blast-resistant windows above the crash site didn't shatter. A new sprinkler system kept the fires from consuming the entire place.
When the plane hit wedge 1, workers were just a few days away from completing a three-year renovation of that section."
Source: USNews (12/10/01)
“The Pentagon has been undergoing some structural upgrades and retrofits, including new blastproof windows made of KevlarT that were, fortuitously, in place on the side of impact. This reinforced section of the building had a significant effect on reducing the extent of damage.”
Source: Fire Engineering Magazine (11/02)
"The 1,000,000-square-foot wedge was five days away from completion when it was struck by hijacked American Airlines Flight 77." Source: Annual Status Report to Congress (3/01/02)
Coincidence?
here are a couple of good web pages that make strong arguments that both Loose Change and In Plane Site were part of a deliberate disinformation campaign - they blend false claims with true claims in order to discredit the truth movement. there is very strong evidence that 9-11 was an inside job, and a lot of serious researchers are putting it together, and Loose Change and In Plane Site both ignore most of the real evidence, while blending in a lot of false claims. mixing false claims with true claims is a common disinformation tactic. the cover of the Loose Change DVD actually sandwiches 2 false claims with 2 true claims. the websites (below) give strong evidence that both videos were intended to throw people off the scent of the real evidence of an inside job. the author of the first site writes "if it (Loose Change) is not naive, foolish, uninformed and ignorant, then it is the work of a calculating mole or at best a naïf who has been used by such." in other words, the authors of Loose Change may be trying to throw us off from the real evidence of an inside job, or they may have good intentions but have been fooled somewhat by, for example, the maker of In Plane Site:
http://home.planet.nl/~reijd050/JoeR/2005_07_21_Michael_Green_Loose_Change_analysis.htm
http://www.oilempire.us/loose-change.html
Rumsfeld's "slip-up" about a "missile" hitting the Pentagon was probably intentional.
you guys are right to debunk Loose Change, but 9-11 was definitely an inside job (see my post above).
This James B. guy is a total douchebag. Everyone here is just argueing a uselessly long arguments about what happened when none of you will ever know.
mezezezah, I would say James is right to debunk Loose Change, which blends false claims with true claims in order to distract people from the real evidence of an inside job. there are much better documentaries about the conspiracy (Denial Stops Here, The Truth and Lies of 9/11, The Great Conspiracy, and the footage from the 9/11 Citizens Commission hearing in New York City). the whole Pentagon missile thing was deliberate disinformation. you, Mezezezah, don't seem to even care about the truth of what happened, or are you just trying to discourage people from investigating?
Some of the passengers were using the airphones built into the seats. Some weren't. The idea that cellphones won't work at all at altitude is just wrong. Obviously some will work better than others but I've talked to a few airline pilots myself who have used there own phones while airborne at cruising altitude. The reason cellphone use is restricted is twofold. First there is some concern of interference with the instruments. Have you ever seen the image on a computer monitor jump when a nearby cellphone is used? I have. It doesn't happen often as it requires the right (or wrong depending on how you look at it) combo of frequencies but it happens. They don't want an instrument display to fritz out at the wrong moment. Many hospitals restrict cellphone use for the same reason. The other reason they are restricted by the FCC is their tendency to grab onto as many towers as possible. There are more cell towers in view of the phone 5 or 6 miles up and the phone will try to make a simultaneous connection to all of them and tie up the network. On the ground it is not a problem as usually only one or two towers are in view at a time.
http://www.911myths.com/html/mobiles_at_altitude.html
Some of the calls would have been impossible to fake as well. Check out this link for more details.
http://www.911myths.com/html/calls_faked.html
Good link straight from the FCC here
http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/cellonplanes.html
Note in particular this quote right near the top
"FCC rules currently ban cell phone use after a plane has taken off because of potential interference to cellular phone networks on the ground. In addition, the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) has rules prohibiting in-flight cell phone use because of potential interference to navigation and aircraft systems."
Or this page
http://news.com.com/Feds+move+on+wireless+Web,+cell+phones+in+flight/2100-1039_3-5491802.html
with this quote in the sixth paragraph
"The primary FCC concern has been possible disruption of cell phone communication on the ground. The FAA's worry is how cell phones might interfere with a plane's navigation and electrical systems"
The third and second paragraphs from the end here http://www.caa.co.za/Public/Air%20Rage/docs/cellp0622-01.html
specifically mention cell phone use while in flight. So obviously it is not impossible.
Yet another page mentioning possible interference with ground networks.
http://www.faa.gov/news/news_story.cfm?type=fact_sheet&year=2005&date=0805
Obviously some people have had their cell phones work at altitude. I've also seen other info stating that older analog phones and CDMA phones were better able to connect at altitude than the newer digital phones. Being that this happened nearly 5 years ago, more people would still have had older phones then.
the fake cell-phone call business was part of the disinformation. we should focus on the real evidence, whereas some would have us focus on the bogus claims and forget the real evidence. I have been researching this heavily, and there is deliberate disinformation going around to distract people from the real evidence. the whole Pentagon-missile claim is the biggest red herring out there. 9-11 was definitely an inside job, and Loose Change was mostly a rehashing of In Plane Site, which was deliberate disinformation. read about it here:
http://home.planet.nl/~reijd050/JoeR/2005_07_21_Michael_Green_Loose_Change_analysis.htm
http://www.oilempire.us/inplanesite.html
http://www.oilempire.us/loose-change.html
it's easy to build a big straw-man by debunking some of the errors in loose change. what is not so easy is coming to grips with all of the true claims in loose change, and especially coming to grips with all the very important facts not included in loose change.
here are a couple of good web pages that make strong arguments that both Loose Change and In Plane Site were part of a deliberate disinformation campaign - they blend false claims with true claims in order to discredit the truth movement. there is very strong evidence that 9-11 was an inside job, and a lot of serious researchers are putting it together, and Loose Change and In Plane Site both ignore most of the real evidence, while blending in a lot of false claims. mixing false claims with true claims is a common disinformation tactic. the cover of the Loose Change DVD actually sandwiches 2 false claims with 2 true claims. the websites below give strong evidence that both videos were intended to throw people off the scent of the real evidence of an inside job. the author of the first site writes "if it (Loose Change) is not naive, foolish, uninformed and ignorant, then it is the work of a calculating mole or at best a naïf who has been used by such." in other words, the authors of Loose Change may be trying to throw us off from the real evidence of an inside job, or they may have good intentions but have been fooled somewhat by, for example, the maker of “In Plane Site”:
http://home.planet.nl/~reijd050/JoeR/2005_07_21_Michael_Green_Loose_Change_analysis.htm
http://www.oilempire.us/loose-change.html
Rumsfeld's "slip-up" about a "missile" hitting the Pentagon was an intentional part of the Flight 77 red herring.
There are disinformation websites out there: The site www.911myths.org claims to be an objective website, saying that it only wants to show that some claims are without merit, but the site seems to me to be a deliberate disinformation website. They cherry-pick the claims that they can most easily cast doubt on, and they never mention the numerous and damning true claims – the real evidence. They don’t allow people to contact them to refute their claims (and thus test their objectivity), and their dishonesty is often obvious. For example, in “debunking” the claim that progressive collapse hasn’t happened before, the website mentions L’Ambience Plaza and the Ronan Point apartment building. They expect website visitors to not actually look into what actually happened in these 2 incidents:
L'Ambience Plaza was still in the early stages of construction and was using a special construction method – the lift-slab system – and wasn’t doing it properly. the Ronan Point incident, which happened in London in 1968, is most often cited by disinformation websites, although they don’t tell you what actually happened - this incident actually consisted of one tiny corner of balconies, and the collapsed balconies were short cantilever sections supported by the building's main structure - so there were no steel beams to prevent this little corner of balconies from collapsing progressively. To use these incidents to “debunk” the clear evidence of controlled demolition, without mentioning what actually happened, shows deliberate dishonesty.
first, my humble assessment of what happened: hijackers were involved, but they were puppets of Washington insiders, without knowing it. Pakistani intelligence agency (ISI) was the middle-man. Israeli intelligence agency (Mossad) and Israeli government knew the attacks were coming, and may have been directly involved (note - this isn't saying 'the Jews did it.' there are many many Jewish people who oppose the Israeli government, including Israelis). Flight 77 definitely hit the Pentagon, and the missile claim was a deliberate red herring to discredit the truth movement. the CIA recently released videos, but they don't show anything more than the 5 previously-released frames, and this is more bait, considering that they definitely have videos that clearly show Flight 77 hitting the Pentagon (such as from the Sheraton Hotel). they may be planning to later release the videos that actually show Flight 77 at some point and say, "look fools. here's flight 77 hitting the Pentagon." The war games on Sept.11, under the direction of Cheney and Rumsfeld, were a smokescreen and an excuse to explain why the Air Force did not respond for over an hour. Finally, without a hint of uncertainty, WTC 1, 2, and 7 were definitely brought down by controlled demolition. WTC 7 is the most damning:
(1) WTC (a) WTC 1, 2, and 7 were the first 3 steel-frame buildings in history to (allegedly) collapse due to fire. Several steel-frame skyscrapers around the world have had huge fires that burned throughout several floors for several hours, and none of these buildings collapsed. The official explanation of the collapse of WTC 1 and 2 claims that the impact of the aircrafts weakened the structures (which of course they would have to some degree), but NIST actually admits to fudging its models to make them more plausibly (to the casual researcher) explain the collapses, and it also simply lies and contradicts itself. For example, they alter the path of flight 175 so they can argue that it damaged the core columns. The report is misleading in many other ways. much more here:
http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/nist/
The NIST Report completely ignores building 7, saying it will be considered “at a later date.” The Bush-appointed, 10-member corruption-squad known as the 9-11 Commission also ignored building 7 - most Americans don't even know about building 7, because the media have ignored it. Also, if you look at the video of the North Tower’s collapse, you can see that the top portion above the impact zone actually collapses in on itself from the bottom up, before the rest of the collapse proceeds (b) WTC 7 is the most obvious - no jet hit this building, and although some mention that the fuel tanks in the building may have contributed, FEMA said they were all intact, and, as already noted, fires do not make steel-frame buildings collapse, and random fires could not, by any stretch of the imagination, make a steel-frame building collapse so methodically into a neat little rubble pile within its own footprint, maintaining perfect radial symmetry all the way down, and falling at freefall speed. This only happens with controlled demolition. Unfortunately, most people are unaware of building 7, but the word is spreading thanks to many serious researchers. FEMA was actually able to obtain sections of the steel beams from WTC 7, and it found sulfidation in combination with rapid corrosion – a trademark of the use of thermate (the military version of thermite) cutter chargers – the presence of sulfidation and rapid corrosion can only be explained by the use of thermate. the fires in WTC 7 were only on partial sections of 2 floors, and even if the fires had engulfed the building for days, it would not have collapsed. Silverstein's slip-up about 'pulling it' also gave it away. his publicist later claimed that Silverstein meant 'pulling' the firefighters out of the building. 'pulling' is a term commonly used to refer to controlled demolition. FEMA has actually admitted that it cannot explain the collapse of building 7 (b) the official explanation ignores the thermal conductivity of steel. There would have been a massive heatsink from the steel beams, and the heat would have spread to other parts of the steel-beam mesh, rather than weakening nearby beams (b) the 'Pancake Theory', used to describe the collapse mode, has never existed as a collapse mechanism theory in structural engineering prior to 9-11. ‘Pancaking’ has happened before, but to one building (L'Ambience Plaza) that was still in the early stages of construction and was using a special construction method – the lift-slab system – and wasn’t doing it properly, and what happened wasn’t called ‘pancaking’ before 9-11. the term 'progressive collapse' has been used before, but no steel-frame building has ever collapsed due to this mechanism. the Ronan Point incident, in 1968, is most often cited by disinformation websites, although they don’t tell you what actually happened - this incident actually consisted of one tiny corner of balconies, and the collapsed balconies were short cantilever sections supported by the building's main structure - so there were no steel beams to prevent this little corner from collapsing progressively. (c)'squibs', a trademark of controlled demolition, can be seen in the videos of the collapses, and are especially obvious in WTC 7. the offical story attempts to explain them away as concrete dust and debris being pushed out of the windows by the force of the collapse, but they occur much below the level of collapse, and they occur just prior to the initiation of collapse in WTC 7. (d) Marvin Bush's contract with Stratesec(Securicom), the company that provided security for the WTC, United Airlines, and Dulles Internation Airport, was set to end on 9/10/01, the day before 9/11. (e) I've verified that there were several unexplained evacuations in the WTC towers in the weeks prior to the attacks: Ben Fountain, a financial analyst with Fireman's Fund, was coming out of the Chambers Street Station, headed for his office on the 47th floor of the south tower. "How could they let this happen? They knew this building was a target. Over the past few weeks we'd been evacuated a number of times, which is unusual. I think they had an inkling something was going on." (Source: People Magazine. Sept. 12th 2001). (f) Battalion Chief Orio J. Palmer had reached the 78th floor of the South Tower by 9:48 -- 11 minutes before the explosive collapse began -- and reported via radio "two isolated pockets of fire." (g) all three buildings maintained prefect radial symmetry as they collapsed – if the buildings had collapsed due to randomly-placed fires (which simply doesn’t happen – even full-fledged infernos don’t make steel-frame buildings collapse), they would not have fallen straight down into their own footprints (h) as Professor Steven Jones of BYU points out, flowing pools of molten steel were reported by eyewitnesses – impossible with hydrocarbon fires, but easily explained by the use of thermate cutter charges (i) the temperatures simply were not hot enough, and weren’t sustained long enough, to weaken the steel, let alone melt it, in such a short period of time, especially considering the thermal conductivity of steel (j) the explosive force of the collapses cannot be explained by mere gravity – debris was ejected out several hundred feet – huge steel beams were found 300 feet away.
Pakistani Intelligence Agency (ISI, which was founded by the CIA and still has close ties with the CIA, like Al Qaeda) was the middle-man between Washington insiders and the clueless terrorists:
October 9, courtesy of the Times of India:
"While the Pakistani Inter Services Public Relations claimed that former ISI [Pakistani intelligence] director-general Lt-Gen Mahmud Ahmad sought retirement after being superseded on Monday, the truth is more shocking. Top sources confirmed here on Tuesday that the general lost his job because of the 'evidence' India produced to show his links to one of the suicide bombers that wrecked the World Trade Center. The U.S. authorities sought his removal after confirming the fact that $100,000 were wired to WTC hijacker Mohammed Atta from Pakistan by [Omar Saeed] at the instance of General Mahmud [Ahmad]."
September 9—two days before 9/11 — Karachi News made the following observation:
"ISI Chief Lt-Gen [Mahmud Ahmad's] week-long presence in Washington has triggered speculation about the agenda of his mysterious meetings at the Pentagon and National Security Council . . . What added interest to his visit is the history of such visits. Last time Ziauddin Butt, [General Ahmad's] predecessor, was here during Nawaz Sharif's government, the domestic politics turned topsy-turvy within days. That this is not the first visit by [General Ahmad] in the last three months shows the urgency of the ongoing parleys."
Israeli intelligence agency (Mossad) and government insiders knew the attacks were coming, and may have been involved in them:
Mossad agents were filming the towers before the airplanes even hit them, and began dancing and celebrating when the planes hit and when the towers collapsed :
This is a link to the article originally published by ABC News:
http://www.uscrusade.com/forum/config.pl/noframes/read/1405
Source: ABC News, Saturday, June 22nd, 2002.
“A counterintelligence investigation by the FBI concluded that at least two of them were in fact Mossad operatives, according to the former American official, who said he was regularly briefed on the investigation by two separate law enforcement officials.”
Source: The Forward, March 15th, 2002
This has been reported on by several mainstream media outlets, but has simply been forgotten
Larry A. Silverstein – signed a 99-year lease on the World Trade Center 6 weeks before the attacks. A $3,500,000,000 insurance policy, specifically covering acts of terrorism, was included in the lease. This lease was an unprecedented privatization of the WTC complex. After 9/11, Silverstein demanded $7 billion, claiming that the two planes constituted two separate acts of terrorism.
Larry A. Silverstein is a close friend of Ariel Sharon, Benjamin Netanyahu, and Ehud Barak: “Shortly after the events of September 11, Prime Minister Ariel Sharon called Larry Silverstein, a Jewish real estate magnate in New York, the owner of the World Trade Center's 110-story Twin Towers and a close friend, to ask how he was. Since then they have spoken a few more times. Two former prime ministers - Benjamin Netanyahu, who this week called Silverstein a "friend," and Ehud Barak, whom Silverstein in the past offered a job as his representative in Israel - also called soon after the disaster.”
http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=97338&contrassID=3&subContrassID=0&sbSubContrassID=0
Flight 77 and the Pentagon:
JUNE 2001: The Pentagon initiates new instructions for military intervention in the case of a highjacking. these new instructions state that, for all "nonimmediate" responses (whatever that means), the Department of Defense must get permission directly from the Secretary of Defense (Rumsfeld).
Source: Joint Chiefs of Staff Document:
http://www.dtic.mil/doctrine/jel/cjcsd/cjcsi/3610_01a.pdf
http://www.911review.com/means/standdown.html
October 24, 2000: the Pentagon conducted the first of two training exercises called MASCAL (Mass Casualty), which simulated a Boeing 757 hitting the Pentagon.
Source: The U.S. Army Military District of Washington (MDW)
Charles Burlingame had actually retired 20 years earlier, but he still participated in the MASCAL exercise at the Pentagon, a year before the attacks:
Charles F. Burlingame III was the pilot of flight 77. He was an F-4 pilot in the Navy, and as his last Navy mission, he had helped craft Pentagon response plans in the event of a commercial airliner hitting the Pentagon.
Source: Associated Press. August 22, 2002
http://anderson.ath.cx:8000/911/pen08.html
Barbara Honegger, who worked in the White House under Reagan, points out another coincidence. Researching press reports, she found a 9/16/01 Washington Post story about the pilot of AA flight 77 that, on the morning of 9/11, was said to have crashed into the Pentagon.
Here's Barbara Honegger:
...the main pilot of the 9-11 Pentagon plane, former Navy and then Navy Reservist pilot Charles Burlingame, had recently, in a Reserve assignment at the Pentagon, been part of a Task Force that drafted the Pentagon's emergency response plan on what to do in case a plane hit the building - which his own plane then did. It is therefore very possible - in fact extremely likely, if not certain - that this 'task force' that Flight 77 pilot "Chick" Burlingame was part of was the Cheney counterterrorism preparedness task force, and that the Pentagon plane pilot, therefore, directly knew and even worked with/for Cheney. and
Burlingame's 9-11 Pentagon plane not only hit the Pentagon that morning, it struck a Command and Control center for that morning's counterterrorism "game" exercise, killing most, if not all, of the "players". We know this because Army personnel from Ft. Monmouth, New Jersey were on special duty assignment at the Pentagon that morning for an emergency response exercise and were killed when Burlingame's plane hit. Ft. Monmouth, New Jersey also happens to be the headquarters for White House/Presidential communications, including therefore probably also for Air Force One (this is discoverable) -- and recall the warning "Air Force One is next" and the 'secret code' which was called into the White House that morning which WH press secretary Ari Fleischer revealed as a means of explaining why Pres. Bush left Florida for a military base and did not return to the White House. This "warning" was probably called into the White House, if true, by either the Ft. Monmouth White House communications headquarters and/or the Ft. Monmouth counterterrorism exercise "game" players temporarily at the Pentagon that morning.
This means the pilot of Flight 77 participated in MASCAL in October of 2000, an exercise which simulated a Boeing 757 crashing into the Pentagon.
Flight 77 hit the one and only section of the Pentagon that had been renovated to withstand just such an attack:
"Luck — if it can be called that — had it that the terrorists aimed the Boeing 757 at the only part of the Pentagon that already had been renovated in an 11-year, $1.3 billion project meant to bolster it against attack. That significantly limited the damage and loss of life by slowing the plane as it tore through the building and reducing the explosion's reach." Source: USA Today (1/01/02)
“Not all the offices were occupied that morning because of the renovation. In addition, the outer ring had been reinforced by floor-to-ceiling steel beams that ran through all five floors. Between them was a Kevlar-like mesh, similar to the material in bulletproof vests, which kept masonry from becoming shrapnel. Together, the beams and the mesh formed a citadel that kept the top floors from collapsing for about 35 minutes, time enough for some people to escape. New blast-resistant windows above the crash site didn't shatter. A new sprinkler system kept the fires from consuming the entire place.
When the plane hit wedge 1, workers were just a few days away from completing a three-year renovation of that section."
Source: USNews (12/10/01)
“The Pentagon has been undergoing some structural upgrades and retrofits, including new blastproof windows made of KevlarT that were, fortuitously, in place on the side of impact. This reinforced section of the building had a significant effect on reducing the extent of damage.”
Source: Fire Engineering Magazine (11/02)
"The 1,000,000-square-foot wedge was five days away from completion when it was struck by hijacked American Airlines Flight 77." Source: Annual Status Report to Congress (3/01/02)
FAA delayed reporting the hijackings for an hour, whereas it was bound by law to report them. The top FAA officials were appointed by Bush, and were close friends of Bush.
Norad (Pentagon) response was delayed, once FAA finally reported.
The jets that responded would have made it in time if they had flown at full speed. Why didn’t they fly at full speed? The Pentagon (Norad) must have given this order.
Several war games had been planned by Rumsfeld and Cheney on September 11th, in which most American fighter jets were off fighting imagined enemies. A particularly telling detail is that the CIA was conducting an exercise on Sept. 11th, under Cheney’s direction, that simulated a plane hitting NRO (National Reconnaissance Organization headquarters (near Dulles Airport, Virginia) - this was not a "terrorism" exercise but it did result in the evacuation of most NRO employees just as the "real" 9/11 was taking place, making it more difficult for the nation's spy satellites to be used to track the hijacked planes.
Terrorists were given visas based on incomplete forms. President Bush appointed James Ziglar commissioner of the INS (Immigration and Naturalization Service) one month before September 1lth
I'm not a conspiracy theorist myself...but there are many good points in this video, and he also provides sources...so...where are yours?? You merely disprove his points with your own unfounded conclusions. You need to comeback to the real world and realize that Governments are capable of anything, and ours is not the exception.
Some friends of mine had me watch Loose Change a few days ago & these guys are completely sold on the whole movie. I enjoyed the movie and like that it makes you think, but it seems that some people never made it that far. It seems like my friends take this movie as 100% fact. Obviously, anyone reading this is researching for evidence supporting or disproving this movie. I applaud you. Myself, I have more questions from the movie than answers. These still seem to be up for debate.
1) The movie has footage of some controlled demolition to compare to the towers falling, but no footage of a building falling for any other reason, so it's easy to say "that's the same thing" as you look at the screen. On closer inspection of controlled demolition, the charges are set off from the groung up on key structural points which help to keep the rubble in a nice, neat pile. Each tower seemed to have the top levels of the building, above where the plane impacted, fall and then keep falling as the structure cascades to the ground below with puffs occurring beneath the "free falling" structure. Forget about the conspirancies for a few seconds and imagine that for whatever stuctural reason, the top of the building is collapsing down on top of the rest of the building. Many tons of concrete and steel are crashing down on top of the rest of the building, what's going to happen? Does the left-over building stay standing? Does a lower floor give way and fall the building like a tree, sending it sideways? Or maybe, as the massive rubble decends, each floor systematically gives way to the overwhelming weight from above with increasing momentum as the weight from each floor is added to the avalanche which snaps any structural support (such as the "exoskeleton" support system). This would be like crushing a soda can with your foot. The sides always push out. Are the "squibs" bombs or beams as the building collapsed? The buildings' structure was made to hold up to severe winds. Could the structure have been sturdy enough to keep the falling building inline on descent and not sturdy enough to hold a gigantic impact from above? The engineers who designed the buildings designed them to hold their own weight, but where the structures built to withstand such impact? I apologize for not siting any sources to research, but there is plenty of literature on the construction of the Twin Towers and the History Channel has a good program which should air around Sept. 11.
2)Why are most sources of info in the film from 3rd party representatives? What happenned to the people who where there? Did they all get kidnapped by Big Brother? Why am I only hearing one guy tell me what other people are saying? Are they shy? I understand that many people died or there is a voice clip or a quote, but the narrator tells you what to think about all of it. Is there nobody with the guts to say they where witness to this monumental conspiracy? They would easily be protected by the media. Silencing this person would be an admission to guilt. With that kind of proof the people involved would be too busy watching their life go down the drain as they get prosecuted for attacking their own country.
3)Is there actually anyboby this evil? I know Hitler, Stalin, etc., etc., but those where for power not just financial gain. President Bush already has lots of money and he has set himself up for several generations to come. A war in Iraq would only give anyone in the U.S. temparary power. So why the elaborate scheme to kill thousands of Americans and destroy the Twin Towers? To pass the Patriot act? To settle a debt with your father's enemy? To bank off inflated gas prices? I know that Bush is taking advantage of this situation, but I don't know that he is part of a 9/11 conspirancy. And the Twin Towers would never be worth 3.5 billion in insurance. I'm sure Silverstein wanted to collect 7 billion to help with the loss of revinue generated from the Towers. Either that or he needed to pay off one hell of a gambling debt!
One thing I know for certain is that you can't believe what you see on TV. Even CNN will report opinion as fact. Watch out for one sided films like Loose Change, they have an agenda and the half-truths they use can only cause hate and fear. This is a kind of propaganda that keeps people from facing the actual problems that are effecting the country; such as the one-sided legislature which is making laws in their own interests and a President who is not focused on the interests of this country and is only struggling to hang on.
Ok, I believe is somewhere in the middle of that the government is telling us and all the CT.
And as for Osama, Im sure the CIA and the FBI have a HUGE file on the guy, especialy considering that we use to support him and the Mujahadeen (sp?) when they were fighting the USSR. Also the fact that he was wanted for the earlier bombing of the WTC and the ship in Yeman, and the embassies in Africa. So information on his being left handed or right handed is readly available im sure. I just can tbe bothered to look for it, cause I think its a minor detail. True, in Islam the left hand is considered unclean, and true, MAYBE he was forced to learn as a child to use his right, but this is only speculation.
http://www.savetheinternet.com/
Corporations already have the government
don't let them have the internet too
The long blog by skeptic treated "power" and finacial" as two seperate things.
Just one thing - How do you think that the richest people in the world get so rich? Meritocracy and talent are just part of it. The most sure-fire way to get wealthy is to first become powerfull.
Hitler and Stalin were wealthy. Nazi Germany and the Communist USSR were both amoung the wealthiest nations.
Even Fidel Castro, Mr. communism, is ranked in the Forbes top 100 list of wealthiest individuals in the world
Something I discovered not mentioned here in your list...
LC suggested from the video/stillshots of OBL in the video of him finally taking credit for 9/11 after repeated assertions he wasn't respinsible, look nothing like OBL...
I discovered that the video in question is distored (deliberate?), "squashed" and extra dark. I captured their comparitive image of OBL from the video, stretched it back to its normal height and corrected the contrast so that it wasn't so dark, and you can clearly see the person in the video is indeed OBL.
Also not covered in the section on OBL wearing gold despite it being against Islam... in every video, including the videos they use to prove it is not him, he is wearing his gold wedding ring in all of them. That is the *only* gold he wears. Gold wedding rings are not prohibited in Islam.
33. Claim: The cell phone calls from the hijacked planes could not have taken place due to the technological impossibility of placing calls from a high altitude.
Truth: Most of the calls were from Airfones, which quite obviously work fine in the air. The few cell phone calls which were made could have easily been made due to the fact that the hijackers reduced altitude to steer their planes into their targets.
Bullshit! Nobody knows at which point the airplanes crossed what altitude. Besides, phone connections are not only a funtion of altitude but also speed. This blog is full of factual errors. It is even more stupid than the most weirdo conspiracy sites. You do everything to discredit the debugging movement.
Bullshit! Nobody knows at which point the airplanes crossed what altitude.
They have these things called flight recorders. They put them in planes...
Ok so there are discprencies in both arguements. James you have senp a ton of time debunking the inconsistencies. Lets simplify it. One simple question. Why can't we see the surveilance shots of the Pentagon? Service stations, Sheraton, Transit cameras....? Because in the video I have watched I see no plane. I figure since there is so much contradictory scientific evidence a good answer to this question will help us know if we should heed the CT.
If you don't like the message, YOU SHOOT THE MESSENGER. screw l/c WAS A DOG SHIT PRODUCTION BY UNCLE SAM - GIVE ME A FUCKIN BREAK, best and brightest - F+.
"The sky is Blue" 'Your a Fucking idiot' "Isn't the sky still blue"?
"no, stupid. i cant even get cell phone reception in my car going 55mph down a high. so how would the get a reception flying over nothing?"
Wow, you might be on to something. I can't get reception in my backyard, so it is obviously impossible to get a reception in any backyard. Not that it matters anyway. I mean, it's not like we're really talking to who we think we're talking to when we use a cell phone. It's actually a computer program of some sort created to imitate those we think we are talking to so that we never figure out it was the JOOOS and their JOOO lightening that brought the towers down. I know this because my neighbors dog told me he saw a unicorn fly(yep, a flying unicorn...I know, even I had a hard time believing that one) away from the towers that day. He knew it was a Joooo because he saw him drop some that missing gold.....
?
if the passengers couldnt make the phone calls how cold someone else supposully passing for them do it?
by the way the usa has unemerous missiles and planes that cannot be detected by radar, so i think if they wanted to lauch a missile they would and you wouldnt even saw the plane.
one last thing i live in portugal a country that its not a thrid world country but its not american either and here we can find reception every wear, how come you always complaining about you reception in their
by the way if you want to shut up those who believe in a conspiracy you probably shouldnt go get your information at the official reports and stuff like that
and if you want to prove that this was an outsid job you probably should get your info on real scientis and solid bases and stuff like that instead of gathering news and whitnesses
"Lie, distortion, false belief. Listen, I know you guys don't have any money but maybe sell a couple comic books and buy a plane ticket on a commercial plane. This is easy enough to validate for yourself. You will not get a signal more than 30 seconds after takeoff. STILL. 5 years later."
Umm then why did I fly from Baltimore to Atlanta a few months ago and get annoyed by the teenager across the aisle from me text messaging her friends *gasp* while we were in the air?? Maybe you should switch your cell phone provider.
I find it amusing that CT's claim that any official or credible source on anything is "tainted". Isn't it funny how anything you could possibly use to disprove a conspiracy just so happens to be "false, corrupted, etc." to the CT?
I suppose in order to convince a CT we must grab a few obscure people who sound important but actually know nothing about the topic upon which they are speaking, and then ask them to tell whatever side of the story we want people to believe. Then for good measure we must go through every source on the subject and selectively point out only the snippets and clips and articles which further our goals.
Why is it that a conspiracy debunker has to look at both the theories and the facts to prove the theories wrong, but all the theorist has to do to prove his legitimacy is claim that the facts are wrong?
Excellent point, Penguin. The CTs don't bother actually disproving an official report -- they ASSUME it is wrong and by a huge leap of faith, ASSUME that everything produced by the government is wrong. In one simple move they've eliminated most of the troublesome data. It is dishonest to the core and it shows that they are unable to separate their feelings about a person or people from the objective reality of that person witnessing to the truth. This reveals the CT to basically be nothing more than a partisan shill. It's sad that they can't overcome their political knee-jerk instincts to actually seek out the truth. They will remain self-blinded to the bitter end.
The simple fact of the mater is that this entire debate hinges on the manner in which the buildings fell. now you can take every single scrap of remaining truth, not concerning the collapse of the these buildings, and throw it out of the window. Because the simple fact is that now no one can prove or disprove the official story or the conspiracy theories. And why is that? Because the government destroyed all of the evidence concerning the collapse of these buildings before any one could take a look at it. So now what we are left with is two conspiracy theory stories. One says that terrorists did it and the other says that our government did it. And for every scientist that you dig up who will say that it was terrorists I’ll show you two that say it was a demolition. Here we’ll start right now. You’ve got the official story and I’ve got fire fighter magazine and the original architects of the world trade center buildings. Your move.
One more thing. Russet shadow you keep bringing up politics. But let me assure that I have no involvement in politics what so ever. In fact before all of this stupid shit happened I was just you’re, a little above average intelligence, Joe shmoe kid, attending collage and trying to get on with my life. I don’t even have a clue about what the hell makes a democrat or a republican a leftist or a rightist. I believe in the free flow of ideas not whether or not those ideas can be neatly packaged into this or that category, and frankly I find it insulting that you would so readily bring this stile of political brutality to the table of this conversation.
russet shadow, I know that it probably hurts you’re your brain to do all that much research so I went and found the zogby poll for you. Avail yourself and read it.
Released: August 30, 2004
Half of New Yorkers Believe US Leaders Had Foreknowledge of Impending 9-11 Attacks and “Consciously Failed” To Act; 66% Call For New Probe of Unanswered Questions by Congress or New York’s Attorney General, New Zogby International Poll Reveals
On the eve of a Republican National Convention invoking 9/11 symbols, sound bytes and imagery, half (49.3%) of New York City residents and 41% of New York citizens overall say that some of our leaders "knew in advance that attacks were planned on or around September 11, 2001, and that they consciously failed to act," according to the poll conducted by Zogby International. The poll of New York residents was conducted from Tuesday August 24 through Thursday August 26, 2004. Overall results have a margin of sampling error of +/-3.5.
The poll is the first of its kind conducted in America that surveys attitudes regarding US government complicity in the 9/11 tragedy. Despite the acute legal and political implications of this accusation, nearly 30% of registered Republicans and over 38% of those who described themselves as "very conservative" supported the claim.
The charge found very high support among adults under 30 (62.8%), African-Americans (62.5%), Hispanics (60.1%), Asians (59.4%), and "Born Again" Evangelical Christians (47.9%).
Less than two in five (36%) believe that the 9/11 Commission had "answered all the important questions about what actually happened on September 11th," and two in three (66%) New Yorkers (and 56.2% overall) called for another full investigation of the "still unanswered questions" by Congress or Elliot Spitzer, New York's Attorney General. Self-identified "very liberal" New Yorkers supported a new inquiry by a margin of three to one, but so did half (53%) of "very conservative" citizens across the state. The call for a deeper probe was especially strong from Hispanics (75.6%), African-Americans (75.3%) citizens with income from $15-25K (74.3%), women (62%) and Evangelicals (59.9%).
W. David Kubiak, executive director of 911truth.org, the group that commissioned the poll, expressed genuine surprise that New Yorkers' belief in the administration's complicity is as high or higher than that seen overseas. "We're familiar with high levels of 9/11 skepticism abroad where there has been open debate of the evidence for US government complicity. On May 26th the Toronto Star reported a national poll showing that 63% of Canadians are also convinced US leaders had 'prior knowledge' of the attacks yet declined to act. There was no US coverage of this startling poll or the facts supporting the Canadians' conclusions, and there has been virtually no debate on the victim families' scores of still unanswered questions. I think these numbers show that most New Yorkers are now fed up with the silence, and that politicians trying to exploit 9/11 do so at their peril. The 9/11 case is not closed and New York's questions are not going away."
Nicholas Levis of NY911truth.org, an advisor on the poll, agrees, "The 9/11 Commission gave us a plenty of 'recommendations', but far more plentiful were the discrepancies, gaps and omissions in their supposedly 'final' report. How can proposals based on such deficient findings ever make us safe? We think these poll numbers are basically saying, 'Wait just a minute. What about the scores of still outstanding questions? What about the unexplained collapses of WTC 7, our air defenses, official accountability, the chain of command on 9/11, the anthrax, insider trading & FBI field probes? There's so much more to this story that we need to know about.' When such a huge majority of New Yorkers want a new investigation, it will be interesting to see how quickly Attorney General Spitzer and our legislators respond."
SCOPE: The poll covered five areas of related interest: 1) Iraq - do New Yorkers think that our leaders "deliberately misled" us before the war (51.2% do); 2) the 9/11 Commission - did it answer all the "important questions" (only 36% said yes); 3) the inexplicable and largely unreported collapse of the third WTC skyscraper on 9/11 - what was its number (28% of NYC area residents knew); 4) the question on complicity; and 5) how many wanted a new 9/11 probe. All inquiries about questions, responses and demographics should be directed to Zogby International.
SPONSOR: 911truth.org is a coalition of researchers, journalists and victim family members working to expose and resolve the hundreds of critical questions still swirling around 9/11, especially the nearly 400 questions that the Family Steering Committee filed with the 9/11Commission which they fought to create. Initially welcomed by the commissioners as a "road map" for their inquiry, these queries cut to the heart of 9/11 crimes and accountability. Specifically, they raised the central issues of motive, means and cui bono (who profited?). But the Commission ignored the majority of these questions, opting only to explore system failures, miscommunications and incompetence. The victim families' most incisive issues remain unaddressed to this day. The Zogby International poll was also cosponsored by Walden Three (walden3.org) and 9/11 Citizens Watch (911citizenswatch.org), a watchdog group which has monitored the Commission since its inception and will release its findings, "The 9/11 Omission Report," in several weeks.
On September 9th and 11th, 911Truth.org will cosponsor two large successive inquiries in New York, a preliminary 9/11 Citizens Commission hearing and "Confronting the Evidence: 9/11 and the Search for Truth," a research-focused evidentiary forum. These inquiries will examine many of the 9/11 Commission-shunned questions and discuss preparation of a probable cause complaint demanding a grand jury and criminal investigation from the New York Attorney General. Possible charges range from criminal negligence and gross dereliction of duty to foreknowledge, complicity and subsequent obstruction of justice. For details and developments, see www.911truth.org. For press info, contact Kyle Hence 212-243-7787 kylehence@earthlink.net
Zogby International conducted interviews of 808 adults chosen at random in New York State. All calls were made from Zogby International headquarters in Utica, N.Y., from 8/24/04 through 8/26/04. The margin of error is +/- 3.5 percentage points. Slight weights were added to region, party, age, race, religion, and gender to more accurately reflect the population. Margins of error are higher in sub-groups.
Ok so Zogby calls 808 random people out of 19,254,630 (estimated NY State Census-2005)and proves that half of all New Yorkers think that the the Government is complicit in 9/11. Blah, blah, blah....
Thats funny shit
I dont believe in just ordering people to do things. You have to sort of grab an oar and row with them. "Harold Green"
I would just love to see whats on those videos of the pentagon that were taken by the FBI. If they have nothing to hide, then why not show us the surveillance videos? It would definately answer the question on the pentagon...
Loose Change was documented in the same way media (post WWII) has been documented. It occured because we said it happened. Its all really illogical to me in that we can base claims on what we stated 5 minutes ago. Its all too (mis)leading for me but I am still for Loose Change.
Why?
Who has more to gain?
Bush from claiming Bin Laden attacked the US?
or
Bin Laden from claiming he had nothing to do with it?
Funny this is most people think that 9/11 was an irrational act but it was all too rational regardless of what side. We need a war, they need a war, husha pusha, we all fall down.
Regardless, the North American world is largely ignorant, your and my rants are simply echoes in an empty chamber. I am disgusted and wish to leave this place.
Uhhh Those claims of would a country lay a 3000 of its citizens down. Look at New Orleans, look at the Tsunami. Your government doesn't care about you, it is more your bondange and tax dollars that they care for, after all allow for it.
There are still some unanswered 9/11 questions out there, and i don't think this site debunks all of them, but it does a good job debunkng most of them. For the most part well researched and sourced, good job. There are still some questions that need answered, and i think it is the government's responsibility to answer them. All in all i think this site broked down "Loose Change's" arguments pretty well. cheers.
"There are, of course, those who do not want us to speak… Why? Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there?"
FREEDOM! FOREVER!
Has anyone considered this (genuinely, would like your thoughts):
1: The U.S. government are not responsible for 9/11
2: Rogue elements within the government are involved and tip off terrorists as to the best timing for attacks etc.
3: There is no strong evidence at ground zero to link Bin Laden to 9/11, but the government has reason to believe that he is probably responsible or involved and so fabricates evidence for public consumption.
4: There was lots of Gold stolen from the site - but this is linked to point 2 - or that the thieves took advantage of the attack and stole the gold from the debris?
I don't know whether these points have any merit whatsoever - but I see so many people here drawing the worst possible conclusions when there could be quite seperate and unconnected answers to the many unanswered questions that don't involve the government attacking the heart of its own financial and military centers.
Surely a government looking for an excuse to go to war could have picked a target for pretend terrorists that had a big psychological impact on the american people without it causing wuite so much damage to its own infrastructure.
Look at the UK - they didn't need to attack themselves for a pretext to go to war against Iraq.
Personally I believe that whoever the sick person who published this movie is a freakin Democrat or a liberal. It is clear that whoever made this movie is against Pres. Bush and all republicans. I think that its sick and twisted that this person can say that the people on 93 were paid off by the government to never return to our country again thats fucked up where is your respect for all who died that day!
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!!!!!!!!!Praetorian!!!!!!!!!
What damage to our infrastructures was caused by 9/11. Did the stock markets crash? No. Was the government rendered impotent due to an attack on a section of the pentagon which was under going remodeling and was relatively vacant compared to the rest of the building? No. Answer this question. If these alleged terrorist wanted to damage our infrastructure so badly why didn’t they fly those plains into one of our nuclear power plants - which would have been unbelievably tragic for our country - causing a nuclear meltdown? They flew over one on there way to New York. But no, instead they fly them in to two white elephants (watch 9/11 mysteries if you don’t know what I mean by the term white elephants) and a section of the pentagon that was being remodeled and had no one important to our infrastructure in it.
Your rogue element theory is what most of the 9/11 “truthers” believe but we believe that this rogue element has seized control of the U.S. government via the industrial military complex and the federal reserve - read David Icke (not a misspell on icke) or better yet listen to some of his radio interviews (I like those better). If you cant find them on the net I would be willing to send you some for free if you are willing to give me the information I need to do so, but only because I like you. Now get out of here kid you bother me. Hehehe jk
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How stupid do you conspiracy theorist idiots think we are? I have personally used a cell phone a number of times from a commercial flight. Cell phone transmission works by line of sight and 6 miles is WELL within line of sight.
Now, on to the pathetic claim that someone set the WTC building with explosives.... We're talking about 10,000 pounds of gelatinous nitro-glycerin and hundreds of miles of wiring per building, minimum! No thermite, no C-4, no dynamite or TNT, repeat after me slowly ...GELATINOUS NITRO_GLYCERIN..... had any one of you pathetic losers EVER been in the WTC buildings? they were the most heavily guarded private buildings in the US if not the world and operated 24/7...fat chance at setting up explosives in those buildings. Guess what happens if you were to smack one of these buildings with a 100 ton jet going 500 MPH? BOOOOOOOM, the whole thing blows up and the building falls within seconds...PERIOD.
So many of these "wrongs" supposedly proven must have been created by my little 4 year old gerbil--the video said approximately $1 billion in gold, NOT $160 billion. :\ (and that's just one example)
A GREAT documentary for you all to watch--a BBC one that no one can seem to prove wrong-- "The Power of Nightmares"
Check it out.
"Lie, distortion, false belief. Listen, I know you guys don't have any money but maybe sell a couple comic books and buy a plane ticket on a commercial plane. This is easy enough to validate for yourself. You will not get a signal more than 30 seconds after takeoff. STILL. 5 years later."
My boyfriend's plane home this xmas couldn't land at our airport and had to circle around the city a few times before finally deciding to land in a neighbouring city. He called me, from his cell phone, to let me know. I've also forgotten to turn off my cell phone and gotten txt messages long after take off.
This was an inside job..and if this is the best screwloosechange can do at disproving it..then Im totally convinced now. I know some may not want to belive it..its hard to grasp..but it is and always has been about the oil. Money, Money MONEY. A missle hit the pentagon...planes do not make cartoon cut out exit holes..steel buildings are made to withstand anything..Aluminum meets steel..steel wins. Period...there was NO plane in shanksville. Dont act like there was..and if I were blammed for hijacking a plane and were alive..I woudlnt show my face for fear of gettin killed.
This government is capable of more than you think..700,000 Iraqis are dead..coutless soilders..all because of oil. They needed a reason to get it...if the supossed hijackers were saudi then why invade Afganistan? because they need the oil..thats the path the need to take. They made their own reason..and the sheepole belived it. Now our freedoms are getting fewer and fewer and were looking at becoming a dictatorship..you dont have to believe it because in a few years it will be obvious and THEN maybe you'll open your eyes.
READ>>The End of America. Its a great book.=)
Wow, Samantha you need to really step into the real world. It's just amazing how ignorant people really are. Your living in a fictional little world of your own. They've been at war in the middle east for hundreds of years. Most if not all of loose changes clams have been proven false. Now if you want to tell yourself in your head that all this was somehow put together and airplanes weren't used and people didn't die, and all this is george bush's fault, then go ahead, whatever you need to tell yourself to sleep at night. The USA donates so much money to 3rd world nations its not even funny. Without the USA, the world economy world fall apart. One more thing samantha, if your saying this &
you live in AMERICA, then get the F$$$ out & if you live in another country, then we probably support or protect you also, so shut the F$$$ up!!!
In 1995 I was on an airplane traveling to Dallas Texas. I received several text messages on a pager at about 20,000 feet. 1995. Cell phones were now prevelant and cell phone technology was not even close to what it was by 2001. Cell phone and pager technology are very similar. Recap: 1995, several text messages, 20,000 feet.
What cracks me up most about all these CT zombies is that they're constantly asking Screw Loose Change for sources when you just know they'd never question Loose Change itself for ITS sources. I'll betcha they all think Micheal Moore makes "documentaries" too. And I'm sure they're opinion on who shot JFK is based soley on the Oliver Stone film.
Samantha 21916: You should print out your post and tuck it away in a drawer somewhere. Then after you hit 30 or whenever you move out of your mother's basement (whichever comes first), you should take it out of that drawer and read it anew. Hopefully, you'll say, "My God, was I really that stupid?" However, if you still believe what you wrote, then please do us all a favor and move back into your mother's basement, since that will be the place you truly belong.
Isn't it funny how the CT's question the sources of people like what make this blog, but believe UNQUESTIONINGLY the stuff spoonfed them by all the MoveOn.org types (and Michael Moore, and Loose Change, etc.) ? Hypocrisy much, there, Conspiracy Theorists?
do retards acually believe this
i meant the movie
hard to make any water tight claims about any of the things that happened during the attacks. But its very od certainly that the governement allocated a whopping 15 million for the investigation (initially 3 million) when clinton and a bj were already worth 100+ million a few years earlier. it would make more sense if those numbers were reversed to mem anyway.
And how about larry silversteins infamous slip about pulling buildings.. its pretty sad I think.
Of course, larry meant to say something else, and the governement allocated plenty and was eager to get an investigation going etc.. plus countless of other counter claims.
But hey trying to convince a muslim of the truth in christianity or vice versa may be equally hard. Both believe in their cause.
And by the way, demolitions look like the easiest job in the world. 2 buildings that were probably some of the hardest to take down properly if ever attempted, fell down nicely, after being hit by planes. I mean what do you need certificates and permits for when it comes to demolitions, these buildings, including wtc 7 just seem to collapse on them selves anyway. But honestly I would have never believed it unless I had seen it, I mean they just look wayyy to tall to fall down in such order. But you live and you learn I guess... Keep up the debate, but try and stay civil on both sides. And lets hope this never happens again.
Why there is no mark on the ground in front of the hole in Pentagon? I really doubt the "plane" hit just the building, it had to touch the ground before it as well. And the lawn on the photos was absolutely without any marks! There are many proofs that 911 was and inside job. The most recent news say, that scientists found some trace of explosives in the ruins when investigating.
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I'm sure they made mistakes in this movie but not everything they say is a lie, that alone should be enough to get you thinking.
Also, show some respect for the firefighters who say they heard explosions inside the WTC, are these people also liars?
Our governments ARE lying to us. Bill Hicks:
"Go back to bed, America. Your government has figured out how it all transpired. Go back to bed, America. Your government is in control again. Here. Here's American Gladiators. Watch this, shut up. Go back to bed, America. Here is American Gladiators. Here is 56 channels of it! Watch these pituitary retards bang their fucking skulls together and congratulate you on living in the land of freedom. Here you go, America! You are free to do as we tell you! You are free to do what we tell you!"
And that's the way it is!
Roger, you are being insane. You are saying "source please" to everything, and then are just saying "oh, really" to every valid point.
Very nice post. I enjoyed reading it.
all of the lazt assholes asking for a source, how about moving your fat ass arms and researching for a little while? its not like your doing anything else with your time.
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Oh congrats you found 41 errors here's a cookie. But guess what this movie has more truth than lies.
some of these facts werent even said in the movie. get your facts straight. americans fucking SUCK. even the osama thing is bullshit
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