Friday, July 07, 2006

Uncle Fetzer in LA



I haven't watched it all the way through, but it starts with Fetzer's macho assertion that if he'd been on a plane hijacked by Arabs with boxcutters, he and the other passengers would have beaten them to death with their luggage.

28 Comments:

At 07 July, 2006 09:47, Blogger Avery Dylan said...

Like hey, man, he could have, I mean, like you know, Fetzer does have a lot of baggage you know?

 
At 07 July, 2006 10:29, Blogger tnculp said...

he says:"they would have beaten them to death with their luggage."

I wonder if this guy has ever looked into pyschology. Studies have shown that people are extremely complaisant with orders. They do what they are told. I'm reminded of the experiment done is the 50's or 60's with the "Q&A shock machine".

My brother went through SWAT and police training, and one of things that they covered a lot was hand to hand combat with someone with a knife.

The key to that kind of fight, is to realize that you are going to get cut, it's inevitable, but you don't have a choice. Only a few of his classmates were able to come to this realization. Most of them were too afraid and couldn't properly disarm the attacker.

He's purely ignorant.

 
At 07 July, 2006 10:33, Blogger CHF said...

Well yeah, Jim - THESE DAYS, with the age of peaceful hijackings over, I'm sure most people would fight back without thinking twice.

Just look at how the shoe bomber got jumped.

Besides, I doubt machmo man Fetzer would have been so keen for a fight if the hijackers said they had a bomb.

 
At 07 July, 2006 10:42, Blogger telescopemerc said...

Everyone is a Monday Morning Chuck Norris.

 
At 07 July, 2006 10:59, Blogger JoanBasil said...

Passengers on the LIRR took out Colin Ferguson and he had a gun and was shooting.

 
At 07 July, 2006 11:14, Blogger Alex said...

Passengers on the LIRR took out Colin Ferguson and he had a gun and was shooting.

Christ, do I have to explain EVERYTHING to you? It's obvious you don't have even the most basic understanding of crisis situations. Being a hostage, and being used for target practice by a raging lunatic, are two completely different things. Tha vast majority of people WILL NOT fight back against hostage-takers because they can delude themselves into thinking that they have a chance. Even people who logicaly know that they WILL be executed are usualy hesitant to fight back, even though it would increase their chances of survival. Instead they delude themselves into thinking that their captor may have a last-second change of heart.

Colin Ferguson on the other hand simply pulled out a weapon and started blasting away at anyone who was white. That sort of event tends to get peoples adrenaline flowing pretty good. It also makes it much harder to delude yourself into beleiving that you'll live through the ordeal. Meaning you're much more likely to try and fight back. You've got nothing to lose.

 
At 07 July, 2006 11:16, Blogger Pat said...

Joan, the standard advice given to travelers before 9-11 was to obey the hijackers and not anger them. This was seen as the most likely route to survival. Ferguson, on the other hand, was methodically killing people, so there was no option but to attack him (and the other passengers attacked him while he was reloading).

 
At 07 July, 2006 11:41, Blogger Unknown said...

This (Fetzer's presentation) is one of the reasons that I call for Fetzer's resignation from ST911.

 
At 07 July, 2006 12:00, Blogger telescopemerc said...

Passengers on the LIRR took out Colin Ferguson and he had a gun and was shooting.

I'm surprised you don't but Furgeson's claim that everyone was shooting him and he was just defending himself.

The key words here are 'was shooting'. Once you start firing and demonstrate no willingness to stop, you pretty much give those who were hoping, in fear for their lives, that the incident would end with you gone and them still alive. Now you have people with nothing to lose. Hijacking was like that prior to 911.

 
At 07 July, 2006 12:51, Blogger roger_sq said...

Don't misunderestimate Fetzer; beneath that fat sagging bloated nerdlike bookworm exterior lies a caged animal just waiting to unleash his fists of fury on the unwary. I hear he is a black belt.

The OSA is fiction, granted. And today I suspect hijackers would be beaten to death if they tried to take control. Pre-9/11 you'd have figured on a forced landing and a few days of tension while negotiations took place on the ground. Passengers would not have expected intentional crashing, so they would be reluctant to risk accidental crashing by tacking back the plane.

Fetzer would wet himself and cral under his seat in either case.

 
At 07 July, 2006 12:54, Blogger Manny said...

"The key words here are 'was shooting'. Once you start firing and demonstrate no willingness to stop, you pretty much give those who were hoping, in fear for their lives, that the incident would end with you gone and them still alive."

Even then, Mr. Ferguson reloaded twice. If he had been able to get off that many shots on an aircraft before being successfully confronted he would in all likelyhood have caused the aircraft to crash. The comparision fails on all levels.

 
At 07 July, 2006 13:48, Blogger CHF said...

"This (Fetzer's presentation) is one of the reasons that I call for Fetzer's resignation from ST911."

HELL NO!!!! Fetzer rocks!

I love having that wingnut as the face of 9/11 "truth."

 
At 07 July, 2006 13:51, Blogger nes718 said...

That sort of event tends to get peoples adrenaline flowing pretty good. It also makes it much harder to delude yourself into beleiving that you'll live through the ordeal.

At 30,000 feet, you just disproved your own point.

 
At 07 July, 2006 14:23, Blogger Pat said...

Let me just say here that I have no reason to doubt Fetzer's personal courage. He was in the Marines, and they don't take a lot of wimps. My point is that he's overlaying 9/12 attitudes on 9/11.

 
At 07 July, 2006 16:08, Blogger dman said...

Beat 'em to death? Hey Fetzer
why don't you tell 'em a few
conspiracy tales - they will die
laughing at the incohert babbling!

 
At 07 July, 2006 17:00, Blogger shawn said...

At 30,000 feet, you just disproved your own point.

Since you're ignorant of all things historical, I'll let you on a little secret: a vast majority of airplane hijackings had the the hijackers wanting their goals met, and then letting the plane go. Last I checked, most didn't hijack the plane to use it as a cruise missle.

 
At 07 July, 2006 19:04, Blogger Unknown said...

Pat,

As you know, I'm not slamming Fetzer on his courage. Fetzer has demonstrated to a small degree in this video (and to a much larger degree at other public appearances) his lack of use of careful words.

As someone who agrees that he raises legitimate questions about JFK, 9/11, etc. I think he's an outstanding example of how combining a knowledgable researcher with a gregarious older guy does not necessarily equal a good PR person.

The reasons to doubt the 9/11 story can be propounded without resorting to speculation, which is exactly what you are catching by Fetzer and criticizing.

 
At 08 July, 2006 06:51, Blogger JPSlovjanski said...

Ladies and Gentlemen, I am happy to inform you that Jim Fetzer is on this flight; meaning we will have absolutely nothing to fear from a potential hijackings. In addition to this, in the unlikely event of a water landing- Fetzer may be used as a life-raft.

 
At 08 July, 2006 09:04, Blogger Falco98 said...

Anyone wanna go 10 - 1 with a list of debunkings?

10: they were not on a passenger manifest.

isn't this simply false?


9: none of them were subject to an autopsy

were there any autopsy-able bodies?


8: 5 - 7 of them have turned up alive

we already know that's false


i could go on, but i have important stuff to do :-P

 
At 08 July, 2006 12:47, Blogger Alex said...

At 30,000 feet, you just disproved your own point.

What the fuck are you talking about?

 
At 09 July, 2006 08:08, Blogger JPSlovjanski said...

Apparently that retard NES thinks that the effects of adrenaline somehow don't work at 30,000 feet. Shit I don't know what he is thinking.

 
At 09 July, 2006 09:04, Blogger asdf said...

Fear causes people to be heroic. Most people in that situation would have beaten them do death. He's not boasting or being macho. People become macho in that situation. Besides he doesn't talk about himself specifically, he says "any group of american passengers". Why don't you disprove his claims?

Childish idiot.

 
At 09 July, 2006 09:05, Blogger asdf said...

In response to the guy talking about people following orders, that's about following orders of people in authority. People with suits in laboratories. You are their guests. However, when a plane is hijacked...you aren't their guests and they aren't in authority.

 
At 09 July, 2006 10:43, Blogger Alex said...

Fear causes people to be heroic. Most people in that situation would have beaten them do death.

Well, thanks for your opinion numbnuts, but I think my qualifications in the field of Applied Ballistics and Crisis Managment beat out your experience as a pot smoking teenager on your parents basement couch. No, people do not get heroic in these situations. And the ones who do generaly end up either getting themselves killed or getting other people killed. If you hadn't gotten all your military knowledge from playing Ghost Recon on your X-Box, you might understand that.

 
At 09 July, 2006 10:47, Blogger shawn said...

Fear causes people to be heroic. Most people in that situation would have beaten them do death. He's not boasting or being macho. People become macho in that situation. Besides he doesn't talk about himself specifically, he says "any group of american passengers". Why don't you disprove his claims?

Childish idiot.


That's why only one of the planes fought back, right?

 
At 09 July, 2006 11:20, Blogger Alex said...

Oh and about this nonsense:

In response to the guy talking about people following orders, that's about following orders of people in authority. People with suits in laboratories. You are their guests. However, when a plane is hijacked...you aren't their guests and they aren't in authority.

How do you think authority is derived, Einstein? Authority comes from an inbalance in power. Your boss is an authority because he has the power to fire you. A cop is an authority because he has the power to arrest you. A soldier on duty is an authority because he has the power to kill you. And yes, a hijacker is an authority because he has the power to slit your throat from ear to ear, or failing that, push a button and vaporize you, your wife, your children, and everyone else around you. So yes, people DO follow their instructions, and they do so quite readily.

 
At 09 July, 2006 14:07, Blogger Lenbrazil said...

I wonder if any of the Fetzer fans out there can cite a single case of passengers over powering hijackers? The passengers on the other flights didn't know they were doomed, thet were told there was a bomb on board and some of the hijackers were in the cockpit. Even if they had "beaten the hijackers" in the cabin "to death with their luggage" how would they have over powered the ones in the locked cockpit before they detonated the bomb (which the passengers would have had no reason to doubt they had).

Also if the passengers knew (or thought) the flight crew had been killed, killing the hijackers would have been suicide.

 
At 30 December, 2006 15:07, Anonymous Anonymous said...

We are not just talking knives and box cutters but there were reports of some sort of gas being used, mace or pepper spray.

It's easy to be macho in hindsight, these people had no reason to believe that anything but a standard hijacking was in progress and they would be held for some time until demands were met.

The people on flight 93 fought back only after knowing the flight was a suicide flight.

So let test Fetzys assertion and have him square off with a suicidal terrorist with a knife and mace and Fetzer can use his carry-on.

 

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