Tuesday, May 23, 2006

Ben Fountain, Meet Scott Forbes

I have already discussed how Loose Change takes a quote from Ben Fountain, who worked in the South Tower, out of context (and outright lied) to make it look like he suggested that conspirators were given the opportunity to place explosives in "both twin towers and World Trade Center 7" due to "a number of unannounced and unusual drills ".

Now even if we ignore the fact that Loose Change's own source points out that extra bomb sniffing dogs were working the towers during this time, and that Ben Fountain was only speaking about the tower he worked in, how could they place the thousands of explosives in the short time of a fire drill? Well the Loosers point to another man, Scott Forbes in order to fill in this hole.

Well, there are several problems with this theory. Scott Forbes also worked in the south tower, which still leaves the other two buildings unexplained, without a single witness to explain how hundreds of technicians could have placed thousands of explosive charges, without any of the security, workers, or bomb sniffing dogs noticing.

Furthermore, in an interview, with Killtown, a pro-conspiracy blog no less, Scott Forbes directly contradicts Ben Fountain's account (emphasis mine).

KT: Besides the "power down" the weekend before 9/11, was there any other unusual activity going on related to the WTC? There was one guy, Ben Fountain, who worked on the 47 floor of the WTC 2 who said there was an unusual amount of evacuation drills. Did you experience any of those?

SF: We had regular fire/evacuation drills, but not an unusual number.

In the usual logical flexibility displayed by conspiracy theorists, they amazingly manage to use two completely contradictory eyewitnesses, to support the same theory!

Even if we accept Scott's word, and not Ben's, all he is saying is that the power was out in part of one tower for about 24 hours. He never claims the building was blocked off from witnesses, and even talks about being there himself for part of the time. So could thousands of explosive charges really have been placed, even in this one tower, in a public building in a 24 hour period, without anyone noticing?

Well here is an example of the work that goes into a controlled demolition, on a building only a fraction of the size of just one of the towers (emphasis mine):

The button to bring down the 30-story office tower at Seventh and Houston streets, one of the tallest buildings ever to be imploded, will be pushed at 8 a.m., said John Angelina president of D.H. Griffin of Texas, a Houston company that has served on the demolition team, which also includes Midwest Wrecking in Fort Worth.


Crews have been working feverishly this week on the final preparations on work that began in November.


"We'll work as hard today as we have in the last four months," Brian Choate, Midwest Wrecking's chief executive, said Thursday.

45 Comments:

At 24 May, 2006 03:04, Blogger nesNYC said...

The most believable scenario I have read on what could have bought these towers down is that they might have been built with the demo charges built into the concrete during construction.

Go to the following page and scroll down to the title you see:

How The WTC Was Secretly Demolished On 9-11-01.

All the power downs and lax security just prior to 9/11 could have been to inspect and finalize the operation.

 
At 24 May, 2006 04:38, Blogger BG said...

Nesnyc,

Just my two cents: I find the "built in the concrete during construction" argument worse than bad speculation. Not only does it not match the reality of the demolition, it totally seems to the casual reader to take the pressure off the idea that there was a major sophisticated conspiracy that was directly related to the murder of all those people.

So think about the details. Realise:

#1: The explosions in the basement and other places in the towers, the explosion that "blew out" the lobby, and this was way before the "demo" are completely inconsistent with the idea that there was only a long ago built-in capability.

#2: Even if one goes with the theory that the demo capability was there from contruction, you do realise someone would have had to have been at the controls making the CD happen. You aren't saying that it was some kind of automated system that had the logic of "oops, building ready to topple, better demolish it" are you?

The link you provide seems good.

Is the reason you talk about "built in" demo charges because you find it incomprehensible that security would allow the whole CD rigging to have been preparted within, say, a month of 9/11?

Forbes says the reason given for the power down was to upgrade the "cabling" (for data traffic) in the building. If that's not a good cover for wiring a CD, I don't know what is.

 
At 24 May, 2006 04:48, Blogger BG said...

Nesnyc,

Ok, small apology.

I think I see that the web page that you are linking to is making the case the the demo would not be possible as an "add on" job.

In the final analysis, I have no business making a definitve statement on that. It's not that I think Prof. Jones is God, or has to be right about his paper. It's not like I have thorough knowledge of demo technology.

I guess I'll leave it at: it just doesn't seem to ring true for me, which I guess anyone could say:

Well the idea to some people that the Earth is orbiting the Sun doesn't seem to ring true to the uninformed.....clearly the Sun is going around us....

 
At 24 May, 2006 04:53, Blogger BG said...

I think this "Ben Fountain, Meet Scott Forbes" post makes way too much out of the contention that Forbes and Fountain contradict each other. This is the stuff of smearing when you don't have a better argument.

 
At 24 May, 2006 05:24, Blogger Chad said...

No smearing of you people is needed when kooks within your own ranks believe that the towers were built with the ever-popular Blast-O Brand concrete.

Blast-O Brand concrete. When you just gotta have a conspiracy.

(an SC Johnson Wax product)

 
At 24 May, 2006 05:35, Blogger MarkyX said...

How come not a single bomb sniffing dog found it then?

 
At 24 May, 2006 05:37, Blogger LT said...

music from the twilight zone...

 
At 24 May, 2006 05:40, Blogger Chad said...

Mark, the dogs are in on the whole thing too.

.... "Man's best friend" my ass.

 
At 24 May, 2006 05:53, Blogger LT said...

they were paid off in cans of alpo. Of course, the negotiations went on in private with the dogs themselves. They (dogs) can speak too, but the government has tried to cover up this fact as best they can.

 
At 24 May, 2006 05:59, Blogger BG said...

Yeap, guys,

I finally agree with you.

I need to add a "Pet Detective" to the staff of the entity to be created to do a real investigation.

 
At 24 May, 2006 06:34, Blogger Chad said...

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/05/24/turkey.fire/index.html

Thankfully, the smoke is black, so the fire is starved for oxygen and will put itself out shortly.

 
At 24 May, 2006 06:35, Blogger Chad said...

Sorry.... http://tinyurl.com/q9pl5

 
At 24 May, 2006 06:47, Blogger undense said...

I love the demo-crete argument. It posits that the intent to bring down the towers was planned in the early 60s and that the charges used would be viable for 30 - 40 years.

It's so ridiculously hairbrained and far-fetched that anyone believing in it proves themself to be a complete loonie tune.

 
At 24 May, 2006 07:08, Blogger BG said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 24 May, 2006 07:10, Blogger BG said...

undense,

I entirely aware the what I'm going to say makes me look "tin-foil hat".

I need to say it, because the evidence is overwhelming supports this following contention:

There are many, many web sites, and theories about 9/11 that have been spewed out that intentionally discredit people who don't think we have gotten to the bottom of what happened on 9/11.

I'm not saying I agree with any specific details of Hufschmid and his particular speculations. I would need to go and collect 100 different examples (some of them respresented here, true), if giving the supporting detail would be helpful to you to have a basis to either agree or disagree with my contention.

 
At 24 May, 2006 07:26, Blogger shawn said...

So they built demolition charges into the buildings in the 70s?

Do pigs fly in your neck of the woods?

 
At 24 May, 2006 07:43, Blogger BG said...

Shawn,

Just to be clear this is between you and Nesnyc's web page source.

I don't buy it in the least either.

 
At 24 May, 2006 07:52, Blogger BG said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 24 May, 2006 08:11, Blogger BG said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 24 May, 2006 08:21, Blogger James B. said...

The most believable scenario I have read on what could have bought these towers down is that they might have been built with the demo charges built into the concrete during construction.


The fact that this is the most believable scenario you can come up with only shows the ridiculous leaps of logic you are willing to make to support your argument. that has got to be the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

All the power downs and lax security just prior to 9/11 could have been to inspect and finalize the operation.

It wasn't "all the power downs" it was one power down in one part of one tower. The security wasn't "lax", it was increased for several weeks. But don't let the facts get in the way of a competely idiotic theory.

 
At 24 May, 2006 08:29, Blogger LT said...

James,

i agree. I don't think that i've heard anything more ridiculous than that statement. And, obviously, there goes NESNYC claim that only about 50 people were involved...that was an entirely different government, all branches and administration. Always changing their claims of what happened and how it was done. Yeah, far harder to believe the official version supported by FACTS, instead of a version that changes daily, with no evidence to back it up.

 
At 24 May, 2006 08:32, Blogger BG said...

James,

I see you haven't learned anything.

Here's a link (9/11: the impossible, the improbable, the implausible) to a tight article I just ran across.

It won't budge you I know. It is, indeed, a very small treatment. Maybe for others who have cemeted their posistion no much it will be a fair presentation about why some of us have legit questions.

 
At 24 May, 2006 08:38, Blogger LT said...

BG

on a different subject. Please tell me today how you feel about Jesse Macbeth. Just curious.

 
At 24 May, 2006 09:20, Blogger undense said...

It won't budge you I know. It is, indeed, a very small treatment. Maybe for others who have cemeted their posistion no much it will be a fair presentation about why some of us have legit questions.

The article you linked is precisely why so many of us don't believe the CT garbage line. That article keeps repeating information that has already been debunked, information identified as wrong, and information shown to be misleading because it fails to take some things into acount and improperly takes other things into account.

You seem to operate under the assumption, bg, that posting copious amounts of links in this forum somehow validates your beliefs. It doesn't. I'll take qualifty over quantity any day and little to none of what you link in here is quality information. In fact, it's usually nothing more than a slightly different spin on the same ol', same ol'.

That brings up another issue as well - your beliefs. Truthfully, I'm not sure what your beliefs on the matter are because they seem to have no real coherenecy. One comment it's the government. The next comment it's the Zionists. They're all over the place and it appears you subtly shift your beliefs to mold to the discussion at hand. That's just a bit too convenient. It's not a very convincing methodolgy either.

 
At 24 May, 2006 09:33, Blogger Alex said...

LT, if you beleived in a global conspiracy involving the Illuminati, the Nazis, and Zionists, you'd have no problem beleiving this new nonsense either. After all, if "the Zionists", aka the JOOOOZZZZ, were controlling events for the last couple centuries, it would make sense for them to have wired up the WTC back in the 60's. :p

Right n-sync? HAH, I beat ya to it!

 
At 24 May, 2006 10:12, Blogger ScottSl said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 24 May, 2006 10:15, Blogger ScottSl said...

These guys are so dishonest.
Just taking the first line under bg's link
(Filed under impossible)

The article is incorrect about the fall times of the Towers.

In fact both towers were 14-16 seconds.
You can watch the videos and double check.

(This WAS covered in the BLOG!!!)

Tower 7 first collapsed from the inside as seen from the falling Penthouse. Then after much of the interior support had fallen the exterior fell.

Funny how the same crap keeps coming back.

 
At 24 May, 2006 10:23, Blogger undense said...

Well what happened was that initially the towers fell in free-fall, as many witnesses (meaning 1) stated. The Government/Zionists/NWO/Illuminti/Madonna Fanclub and Sex Toy Outlet knew that their plot would be uncovered so they secretly conspired to edit every video taken of the towers to expand the amount of time it took the towers to fall in order to eradicate any proof of a controlled demolition. Fortunately the super-troothers discovered someone with an untouched original. It's stunning footage that will blow the coverup wide open. Unfortunately he is currently under protection of the Syrian government so the video can't actually be shown to anyone.

So now you know the real truth.

/looks around to see if anyone is watching before hitting Publish

 
At 24 May, 2006 10:26, Blogger ScottSl said...

Backtrack here

http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2006/05/free-fallin.html

 
At 24 May, 2006 10:53, Blogger LT said...

damn, its all starting to make sense (not)

 
At 24 May, 2006 13:22, Blogger nesNYC said...

Not only does it not match the reality of the demolition, it totally seems to the casual reader to take the pressure off the idea that there was a major sophisticated conspiracy that was directly related to the murder of all those people.

I know it may seem a bit of a stretch but look at the time frame in which the towers went up. What was going in that era? The "Arab Oil Embargo" comes to mind pretty quickly and if you understand how the ruling elite operate, you know they plan these types of things way in advance.

But curiously, the author of that piece points out to "cold war" era self destructing missile silos and that this is probably the technology used in the towers.

Normal controlled demo doesn't explain why the concrete was pulverized and not human remains of substantial quantities were ever found. If the concrete was indeed laced with explosives during construction, then it explains a lot of the dust and pulverization observed. Conventional controlled demolition, which places explosives at strategic points, does not.

Read here for a detailed explanation of how this could have happened.

EXPLOSIVES PUT IN WTC CONCRETE WHEN CONSTRUCTED-1

 
At 24 May, 2006 13:45, Blogger Alex said...

Wow. N-sync, that article calls for a Billy Madison quote:

"what you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

 
At 24 May, 2006 14:47, Blogger James B. said...

ROTFLMAO You cite an article which uses "Get Smart" as a reference for conspiracy theories. Oh that is too funny, there are tears rolling down my cheeks.

Good ol' Agent 86 has always been my hero.

 
At 24 May, 2006 14:52, Blogger James B. said...

And your oil embargo theory doesn't work either. The towers were finished in January of 1972, the Arab oil embargo wasn't until October of 1973. Maybe they used agent Maxwell Smart's time travel machine?

 
At 24 May, 2006 16:11, Blogger Rousseau said...

As a student of politics I am cosistently amazed at how flawlessly the indoctrination process operates. Let's just accept that the movie's notions are completley unfounded and rediculous as claimed on this site, if that is the case then an extensive and well thought out site dedicated to debunking it is also ridiculous. True or not, the sheer revulsion to the claims provides sound evidence of well trainded minds fine tuned by the American education system. If I made a movie claiming that the world was flat, would a web site be needed to debunk it? I don't know if the guys are totally right but my studies in politics makes me far more atuned to the claim that individuals can and do act with a reckless abandoned to achieve what thay felt would validate them personally, for whatever reason. It as if you all beleive that our leaders are some kind of special people not prone to the destruction, lies, and folly that permeates that records of political leaders thoughout the ages. It is important to note that Machiavelli (a great theoriticain of power) noted that essence of power is in its absence.
He advised the Prince to take advantage of humans' natural inclination to want to believe their government is good and proper. He felt that this passion could be readily manipulated and harnassed at the discretion of the ruler for his advantage. All of the speculation on both sides results in the "market failure" due to the assymetry of information. Machiavelli, hundreds of years ago was atuned to this very crucial fact, that ambivalence resulting from incomplete information will generally lead to docile aquiessence. In sum, this whole process involves psychology as much as the "material facts" invoked by bith sides. We're all lost and each side is on a scavenger hunt for thruth that remains elsive to all of us, the writer included.

 
At 24 May, 2006 17:00, Blogger nesNYC said...

And your oil embargo theory doesn't work either. The towers were finished in January of 1972, the Arab oil embargo wasn't until October of 1973. Maybe they used agent Maxwell Smart's time travel machine?

Typical. Only concentrate on the obviously out of context argument. There are fully two pages full of analysis on that link yet your mind only defaults to and misinterprets the obvious. But like I wrote before, can't really expect you guys to really look at this issue with an open mind and it even seems you're afraid to tackle the meat and potatoes of the issue.

 
At 24 May, 2006 18:43, Blogger James B. said...

You expect me to be openminded about a conspiracy theory that cites a 1960s sitcom? What should I respond with, Mission Impossible or the Man From UNCLE?

 
At 24 May, 2006 19:06, Blogger shawn said...

You expect me to be openminded about a conspiracy theory that cites a 1960s sitcom? What should I respond with, Mission Impossible or the Man From UNCLE?

Not enough Jews in either of those.

 
At 25 May, 2006 05:42, Blogger LT said...

too freakin funny...

 
At 25 May, 2006 06:56, Blogger undense said...

I'd provide a rebuttal to this guy's claim that there were explosives in the concrete, but my shoe is ringing and I gotta answer it.

 
At 25 May, 2006 13:33, Blogger shawn said...

I'd provide a rebuttal to this guy's claim that there were explosives in the concrete, but my shoe is ringing and I gotta answer it.

You win the thread.

 
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At 28 June, 2010 18:15, Anonymous Alan Folsom said...

The explosives were not placed during the power-down. That would be impossible. That took weeks, if not months of work. The remote detonators were installed during the power-down.

 

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