A Change of Pace
Here's another one of those tribute films that would be mocked as false patriotism and myth-making if Dylan Avery had his way.
posted by Pat @ 6:34 PM
26 comments
As Seen in Vanity Fair's August 2006 Issue!
As Seen in US News & World Report's September 11 Fifth Anniversary Issue!
As Seen in Time Magazine's September 11, 2006 Issue!
As Seen in Phoenix New Times' August 9, 2007 Issue!
Sunday, July 02, 2006
Previous Posts
- Even the Sanes Ones Are Crazy
- Jim Fetzer: Time Traveler
- What Norm Mineta Said
- Partial Transcript of Fetzer on Colmes
- Osama Debunks a Myth
- April Gallop Speaks (On This Blog)
- Wisconsin Teacher Under Fire
- A Looser Lies? Say It Isn't So
- Kore Rowe Meet Cindy Sheehan
- It Was the Elves That Done It!
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26 Comments:
The real heroes
Beautiful, shawn!
Thanks alot. Now I have to clean the vomit off my keyboard.
Thanks alot. Now I have to clean the vomit off my keyboard.
Ah ha ha ha...
I thought it was cool. Would go good as the last scene in Loose Change final edition :D
Like hey man, I mean, wow, I thought the fires were almost out, and anyway those were not hot fires, like you now, I almost forgot about those planes, and like, I mean, those buildings were like Really big, boy, I bet they were biger than my high school in Oneonta - like, how did that stuff get all the way to Broadway, I thought they fell in their own footprint, but hey, I mean a footprint can mean a lot if you wear snowshoes, yeah, I mean that stuff was like ejected out way far, and I mean the speed of like gravity was exceeded that day.
Wait'll I put my man Jason on this he knows stuff, I'm just a kid like way over my head.
LETS GO NUKE THOSE AIR-RABS!!!! America, FUCK YEAH!!
Oh yeah, that's exactly what I thought that morning in my history class.
Thanks alot. Now I have to clean the vomit off my keyboard.
Now you know how I feel every time you morons disgrace the memories of those who died that day.
The people who did that are monsters and they're laughing at us. (IOW, they're not dead.)
Oh I know, Osama isn't dead (but I doubt he laughed about it).
Can't bomb iraq for oil with a new peral harbor.
If the war was about oil it wouldn't have cost 35 bucks to fill my car today. That sneaky PNAC document...the one that outlines what to do without a "new Pearl Harbor".
Fucking idiots, the lot of you.
LETS GO NUKE THOSE AIR-RABS!!!!
Like, hey man, Are the Afghanistanies Air-Rabs, I mean we went to Afganyland first, I mean did we go to the wromg place?
Yes, you're right. Patriotism obviously has nothing to do with protecting and respecting the lives of your country people, or the constitution, or investigating the government, and keeping the government in check...it's all about not questioning the government, and childishly insulting anyone who does.
Heil hitler!
nesNYC,
Do you accept the hijacking and crash stories of 9/11 as true?
Oh yeah, that's exactly what I thought that morning in my history class.
Exactly and is why so many AmeriKKKans are so easily conned into fighting Israel's wars.
nesNYC,
Do you accept the hijacking and crash stories of 9/11 as true?
Absolutely not. The whole thing is real fishy; passenger counts too low and most definitely, if the planes were indeed hijacked, they weren't used in the actual attacks. Too much chance for mistakes.
There was definitely help in guiding these planes to their targets. You can't have amateur pilots on their first times flying large commercial aircraft and hit their targets dead on without some kind of navigation assistance or autopilot of some kind.
Also, if they really wanted to not get caught and hit the buildings in NYC, why not take the flights coming right to the city and in the last 20 minutes or so of the flight, take them over then? Why did they have to fly out of Boston and then make U turns and go off course hundreds of miles increasing their chances of being intercepted?
The "hijacking" scenario does not add up, PERIOD.
Yes, you're right. Patriotism obviously has nothing to do with protecting and respecting the lives of your country people, or the constitution, or investigating the government, and keeping the government in check...it's all about not questioning the government, and childishly insulting anyone who does.
Heil hitler!
What the fuck do you know about patriotism?!?! I know for a fact that there are at least two people, myself included, that have put our lives on the line to allow people like you the freedom to say what you want. I actually care about my government enough and the people under it that I was willing to die to protect it. Don't call me a fanboi who never questions the government. I question the government whenever it needs questioning. I've voted in every election since I was able to vote. I voted against Bush twice. I write my congressman. So fuck you for even assuming you know me or know my level of patriotism. I'm all for questioning the government but this is one issue that doesn't need any questioning.
As for everyone else's comments. That picture is from the comic "Hero's." That pic was on the cover and it had Superman saying "Wow." The point being that on that day a bunch of regular people performed a lot of heroic acts. I figured that even truthers would admit that some average person who, not giving two shits about the motives that day, would risk their lives to save each other. It doesn't matter if it was a terrorist attack or not when it comes down to people helping each other. But what comes from the truthers? They make fun of it! Way to show your true colors assholes...
/Rant Over
*two people on this forum that is.
it's all about not questioning the government, and childishly insulting anyone who does.
Heil hitler!
S-s-s-trawman for the win.
I have no problem questioning the government (as a libertarian under a neoconservative administration, I do it quite often), it's when the questioning has a basis to it.
It was the ones who think like you that allowed Hitler to rise to power (but excellent breaking of Goodwin's law). It had nothing to do with not questioning the government, it had to do with seeing an enemy where there was none (and don't turn this around to say al-Qaeda is a phantom enemy, it isn't).
Exactly and is why so many AmeriKKKans are so easily conned into fighting Israel's wars.
You don't understand sarcasm do you? Funny that "KKK" folks would fight for Jews, eh?
they weren't used in the actual attacks. Too much chance for mistakes.
Actually you have that back asswards. Your take on the attacks has an astronomical chance of failure, what with using totally different planes/missles/etc and landing the planes elsewhere (where at least someone would see them) and kill or pay off the passengers.
I voted against Bush twice.
I never voted for the man, either. So much for the Hitler analogy.
Man, nesnyc you must be going nuts with Israel invading to get their soldier back. After those barbarians killed a kid and kidnapped a soldier after Israel gave them 'their' land back.
What the fuck do you know about patriotism?!?! I know for a fact that there are at least two people, myself included, that have put our lives on the line to allow people like you the freedom to say what you want.If that includes fighting in Iraq, then you haven't given the american people any liberation. "A war overseas only serves as an excuse for domestic tyranny." Saddam Hussein was not a threat to the US or a thread to the freedom of the US. The biggest threat to freedom comes from our own government. I actually care about my government enough and the people under it that I was willing to die to protect it. Your government is the one that is trying to kill you by sending you away to war, at least a very high criminal level of our governments...why protect the bastards?Don't call me a fanboi who never questions the government. I was actually responding to the comment made by Pat who posted the video, so calm down. I question the government whenever it needs questioning. I've voted in every election since I was able to vote. I voted against Bush twice. I write my congressman. So fuck you for even assuming you know me or know my level of patriotism. I point out again, I wasn't actually talking to you. I'm all for questioning the government but this is one issue that doesn't need any questioning. So you're all for questioning the government, but not these questions? That's basically like saying you have the freedom of all speech, but don't say that. This line of questioning has a huge basis to it, and it begun with the families of the victims of 9/11, and I thank them for their true courage and patriotism.
This line of questioning has a huge basis to it, and it begun with the families of the victims of 9/11, and I thank them for their true courage and patriotism.
OK, name one family member that supports CT. I'm sure they have important questions but I doubt any of them are about how MIHOP. Better skip the victims families of Flight 93, they might not want to hear what you guys have to say about the phone calls. I might add that I served in the Army well before Iraq. By joining the Army I was willing to except the fact that I could go to war at any point and possibly die. I was willing to die to protect freedom from any future enemy. Are you willing to die for a cause that great? It's ok if you don't, that's your right and I wouldn't look down on you if you didn't want to die. However I think that puts you in a position to watch what you say about patriotism. I agree that Iraq wasn't a direct threat to the US but I care enough for the people under his regime that I wanted to do something about it. You see I actually give a damn about people and went out of my way and made lots of sacrifices to help them. That's what true courage and patriotism is. I agree 100% with the "offical" story so I don't feel the need to question it. As for other things, yes, but for this no.
But I quess I'm just an evil baby killer that doesn't give two shits about anything or anyone but himself. I really look up to the "red pill" taking truthers that want to fight hollywood style to bring down the evil government. Way to go guys! Real American heros!!!
"I also find your notion that planes were hijacked, but not used extremely...(cant find a word...to describe......) retarded!!"
I don't mean to make a somewhat disjointed and contentious discussion simply continue with he said / she said.
I asked NesNYC about his ideas, just to make sure he and I were in the same ballpark. We are.
I say the following to clarify what I think is a broad consensus among many of us who doubt the govt. story, brining the skepticism under the largest umbrella that remains true to what the evidence shows:
1) Absolutely the so-called hijackers were in the US. The sightings and much of the visibility of the hijackers pre-911 was part of the operation. The seeds of fooling the public were being sown by their visibility pre-911. The reason that FBI and over reports of the hijacker s and plots didn't get acted upon (except in Moussaui's case) was because the whole scheme depending on the "hijackers" acting their part on 9/11.
2) The evidence shows that seats were booked under the hijackers names in many, possibly all cases. Persons who were in fact the identities of the hijackers, or fakes most likely did "check in". There are eye-witness accounts of persons who saw or talked with particular hijackers on the a.m. of 9/11 (as well as other times). For example, there are witnesses to Atta in Portland on the a.m. of 9/11, and I think their is an ATM pic of Atta. that was made early on 9/11 while he was getting cash. I think the above details may be the "truth" in the limited sense that they happened and the accounts are accurate. So, to be clear, I don't think any credible source is saying that their were no persons masquerading as hijackers. However the question is open about whether the alleged hijackers "departed" as passengers in the alleged planes.
What can be concluded from the evidence is:
1) The idea that box cutters were used as the primary weapon, and that these individuals commandeered the flights etc. etc., this is where the Kimchee gets deep. Of course in the case of Flight 11, there is a report that a hand gun was used to shot Daniel Lewin.
There are many reason to doubt the hijacking stories, and the crashes as described by the govt. story, and a thorough discussion would have to be provide via links. I fully realise the if the hijackings didn't happen, the audio of the alleged hijackings or the flight attendants or other witnesses to the hijacking would have to be faked. I acknownledge that, and I believe the evidence of fakery is there.
I also acknowledge many grammatical mistakes in my previous comment.
OK, name one family member that supports CT. Maybe this lot?http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/FSCstmtQs.html
And there are many others. Believe me, they are asking questions, questions which you deem unnecesary. I'm sure they have important questions but I doubt any of them are about how MIHOP. Better skip the victims families of Flight 93, they might not want to hear what you guys have to say about the phone calls. I might add that I served in the Army well before Iraq. By joining the Army I was willing to except the fact that I could go to war at any point and possibly die. I was willing to die to protect freedom from any future enemy. Are you willing to die for a cause that great? I'm actually only 13 years old...but I don't think that bombing the shit out of some foreign country really protects freedom unless you are talking world war 2 style. It's ok if you don't, that's your right and I wouldn't look down on you if you didn't want to die. However I think that puts you in a position to watch what you say about patriotism. I agree that Iraq wasn't a direct threat to the US but I care enough for the people under his regime that I wanted to do something about it. You see I actually give a damn about people and went out of my way and made lots of sacrifices to help them. Your government decieved you. They wanted the oil, it had nothing to to with the iraqi people. Do you think they feel liberated now? The place is plunged into civil war...the country is in a worse state than they were even with Saddam. That's what true courage and patriotism is. I agree 100% with the "offical" story so I don't feel the need to question it. 100%?? That is not very healthy. You should always let your mind consider things. Even I think there is a possibility that it was islamic terrorists working alone, however a small possibility. As for other things, yes, but for this no.
But I quess I'm just an evil baby killer Don't say that...you're not a baby killer, I don't even know you. You know what? It's great to protect your country in the name of freedom and make yourself a sacrifice, I greatly respect that, but the people making these wars happen don't care about that. They want you to die, for oil, money and power. that doesn't give two shits about anything or anyone but himself.You already seem to give a shit about people's freedom. I really look up to the "red pill" taking truthers that want to fight hollywood style to bring down the evil government. Way to go guys! Real American heros!!! Thanks.
None of the questions in the link provided mention anything of MIHOP or any other kind of vast conspiracy. Those are good questions but many if not all have been answered in some form or another. People need to understand the concept of delegation of authority. I'm not going into any detail but if one wanted to find answers to those questions they are out there. I admit that the government fucked up but that was a brutal day. I don't think its fair to pass judgment on people for what happened that day. Hindsight is 20/20 as they say. When I say I have no questions thats about the main points of 9/11. There are interesting questions out there but I really don't see how those questions could ultimately reveal a huge government plot.
As for American aid. Why does everyone assume that Standard Operating Procedures for aid start with bombing people? You can't just say that. I don't remember any bombing campaigns when we went to help tsunami victims. There are countless times of examples of US aid without violence. On the flip side sometimes violence has to happen to insure the greater good. Violence is wrong but we can't wish it away. From the way you percieve things I can see why you would have your opinions but if you do a bit of research there are plenty of examples of the good this country has done.
In reality America is damned if we do, damned if we don't. When we give aid it's not enough in the eyes of other countries, when we don't give aid were "turning our backs on the world." WTF, what do you want us to do?!?!?
AS for Iraq, yeah its fucked up. Yeah I'm pissed about the inteligence fuck ups that put us there. However having been there and seeing the faces of the people I'm glad were overthere. Iraq is WAY WAY better off now. Unless you prefer a government that tortures civilians and gives little to know help to the sick. I really wish the media both left and right would get off our backs and let us get our damn job done. Yeah, there may be conflict but that's not going to stop us from building schools and repairing their infastructure.
wow, that's the worst misspelling of "no" I've ever made :)
Even I think there is a possibility that it was islamic terrorists working alone, however a small possibility. As
It's not a question of possibility, but probability. It's far more probable 19 hijackers committed this act (what with all the evidence) than the government doing it (the only solid "proof" being governments do bad stuff sometimes!).
apathoid,
Your debate is so uninformed and untrue that I refuse to address. You bring up nothing new. The points that you do bring up on cut no ice with me previously, so there is no reason for them to address them again with this incredible worthless waste of time.
I have two reasons that I'm commenting here:
1) To reach those who are capable of understanding the truth.
2) To deal with James and and Pat. In particulare James has said that no one have touched the posts here in terms of logic fallacies or other serious challenge.
James could not be more incorrect, and I'm working to provide him the issues not with the expectation he will get a clue, but surely if he is an honest broker of the truth, he really shouldn't continue to make such outrageous claims.
And, finally, I'm amazed that, rather than do thorough research, whether on their own, or by going to links that are provided, many people think it's important to ask for individuals to post their own original opinions here. This seems fubar to me. I don't claim to be a witness, or a leading researcher. Why on earth wouldn't it be in everyone's interest in debating the evidence and opinions of others, who we grant that status of leading exponents of various views, rather than pretending that we have a panel of experts assembled here?
if everything here so so wrong its not even worth your time to point out our "mistakes" why bother commenting?
Last I checked, you can't really count to zero.
But we all know it's just his excuse so he can say we make mistakes without pointing them out.
apathoid,
Your debate is so uninformed and untrue that I refuse to address.
Eh?
The guy says the following things:
1) You can kill someone with a boxcutter.
2) The hijackers claimed to have bombs.
3) The alleged hijackers WERE pilots, and were familiar with the 757/767.
4) All they did was steer the aircraft into the targets.
5) Steering an aircraft into a target is easy, especialy for people with flight experience.
And he makes no claims other than that.
Now, which part of that is "uninformed and untrue" BG? Care to point out a single lie, or even a mistake? C'mon, just ONE!
The points that you do bring up on cut no ice with me previously, so there is no reason for them to address them again with this incredible worthless waste of time.
Well, you've never explained exactly WHY they "cut no ice" with you. So, please, let's hear it. You can make two lists. List number one: "Things that Apathoid is lying about", and List number two: "things BG doesn't want to beleive".
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