Saturday, July 01, 2006

Osama Debunks a Myth

One of the incredible things about conspiracy theorists, is they constantly call for openmindness on the people they are trying to persuade, yet they themselves will only consider the evidence that favors them. They will ignore multiple, reliable reports of an event, but latch on to the most spurious rumors made by scam artists in neo-nazi newspapers or bizarre stories of Lira counterfeiters on the Polish-Austrian border. One example of this is taken from Loose Change:

And in Pakistan, at a military hospital, all of the urologists are replaced by a special team, in order to host their guest of honor, Osama Bin Laden, who is carefully escorted inside to "be watched carefully and looked after". CBS later reports that on this day, bin Laden is admitted to a military hospital in Rawalpindi, Pakistan, for kidney dialysis treatment. Pakistani military forces guard bin Laden. They also move out all the regular staff in the urology department and send in a secret team to replace them. It is not known how long he stays there.

These reports in the CBS story are based off of a couple of anonymous Pakistanis who were supposedly there, hardly the most reliable sources. To this day conspiracy theorists use the allegation that bin Laden needed dialysis as "proof" that he must be dead, and this whole thing must be a hoax. But what "proof" is there that he has ever had kidney problems? Absolutely none. In fact there is a lot of proof, from actual named sources, including bin Laden himself, that his health was fine in this respect. From a recent article by terrorism expert Richard Miniter:

Bin Laden himself is of the same opinion. Hamid Mir, an intrepid Pakistani journalist who writes for the Pakistani daily Dawn, landed one of the only two authentic post September 11 interviews with the world's most wanted man.

In the course of the wide-ranging interview, Mr. Mir asked bin Laden about his kidneys: "A French newspaper has claimed that you have a kidney problem and have secretly gone to Dubai for treatment last year [2000]. Is that correct?"

Bin Laden responded: "My kidneys are all right. I did not go to Dubai last year. One British newspaper has published an imaginary interview with an Islamabad dateline with one of my sons in Saudi Arabia. All this is false."

Now what are the odds that the "openminded" conspiracy theorists will include this in their movie?

47 Comments:

At 01 July, 2006 09:40, Blogger shawn said...

Propaganda!

 
At 01 July, 2006 10:33, Blogger Richard said...

That was obviously the CIA Osama that said that and not the real one, he's dead. That fact has been well established........

 
At 01 July, 2006 11:05, Blogger JPSlovjanski said...

FOOLS!! Osama Bin Laden is actually a cyborg!! If you were following the news, you would have seen that about a year ago Japanese scientists created the first "android". Now remember that in CT land, the existence of technology can be used to prove its use!! Now of course sometimes that technology either wasn't invented at the time of the event in question; or it is not advanced enough(e.g. UAV remote control has a considerable time delay so if Hani Hanjour "couldn't make those manuvers" a remote-pilot surely couldn't).

How does a CT solve the problem? Simple: Suggest that if we know about the current model technology, the conspirators MUST have something ten times as advanced, that we don't know about!!

And they wonder why we don't believe them.

 
At 01 July, 2006 11:17, Blogger Richard said...

So Osama is a CIA cyborg? Man this is getting interesting! Also I can't believe you fell for that slow delay UAV propaganda. It's obviously reported as being slow to steer us away from the truth. I know the truth though! A friend of a friend who's brother worked at the Burger King in the PX at Super Secret Military Site 7-Alpha clearly heard about using the UAV's holo-emmiters to fake the look of a civilan aircraft in order to initiate Project Southwoods

 
At 01 July, 2006 11:37, Blogger JPSlovjanski said...

Shit, has anyone mentioned thermite yet? I think it's been almost three days without someone saying thermite.

THERMITE!!!

 
At 01 July, 2006 11:39, Blogger James B. said...

It wasn't thermite you fool, that is disinformation, it was super nano-thermate!

 
At 01 July, 2006 11:44, Blogger JPSlovjanski said...

NO U!!!

 
At 01 July, 2006 12:11, Blogger default.xbe said...

i still say capt kirk ordered scotty to beam out the core collumns

see, in the future an alien space probe comes to earth looking for structural steel, when it doesnt find any it it starts destroying things, so the crew of th eenterprise must go back in time to rescue some structural steel from the past

 
At 01 July, 2006 12:12, Blogger JPSlovjanski said...

That actually makes SENSE!! The only way the towers could be in "free fall" is if a starship actually BEAMED the steel out of the building!!

 
At 01 July, 2006 12:54, Blogger James B. said...

I raised that theory on the scholar's journal forum. They have yet to refute it.

 
At 01 July, 2006 13:09, Blogger Avery Dylan said...

Like, Hey man, I just found out that, like when I made that mistake about a B-52, man, like it was really a B-25, but like I made a mistake when I said Thermite. Like, I mean, it was Termites. Steel eating Termites, you know, that's what brought down # 7.

I mean, like I was just asking questions, and like, I mean, why are you picking on like, Osama, like, I mean, it's not like he flew the planes or anything.

 
At 01 July, 2006 13:18, Blogger Richard said...

but like I made a mistake when I said Thermite. Like, I mean, it was Termites. Steel eating Termites, you know, that's what brought down # 7.

That makes perfect since!! Every engineer agrees that skyscrapers are just like trees and what are trees made out of, WOOD. Termites eat wood!!!

 
At 01 July, 2006 16:56, Blogger BG said...

For those of you who support the Govt. story, and aren't operatives, this explains your sad lack of understanding.

 
At 01 July, 2006 17:29, Blogger Richard said...

Sad lack of understanding?!?!?!
The guy made some good points but you can't use an analogy like that to explain 9/11. Sure it may apply to some situations but it doesn't apply to them all. How many times has someone attempted to throw the blame onto someone else and it fell apart once the truth was found out? For every analogy that supports CT there is one that can just as easily go against it. I can't see how you guys have all of this evidence but you can't present one solid piece of evidence that doesnt require a suspention of disbelief or basis on other unproven claims. That is not what evidence is. Evidence holds weight it doesn't need much interpreting. Show us one solid bit of evidence so you can finally shut us up. If you guys can't explain how thermate would cut sidways or that misquoting people should still be considered valid facts then how in the hell do you ever expect to get anywhere?

 
At 01 July, 2006 17:35, Blogger Avery Dylan said...

"For those of you who support the Govt. story, and aren't operatives, this explains your sad lack of understanding. "

Like hey man, you're saying Jeffery did it? I mean, I don't even have Jeffery's number or anything.

Like, you know, I mean, are you just getting back at Jeffery? I'm just asking questions you know.

 
At 01 July, 2006 17:39, Blogger peacemom said...

Hey, Richard....

Show you some evidence? How about YOU explaining the HUNDREDS of discrepancies and omissions in the official report. Point is that the KEAN commission NEVER addressed any of the questions raised by thosed who have looked into 9/11. Never.

They only were charged with looking into the intel failures. Period. They were given minimal funds and NO subpoena powers....after a full year of Bush's trying to stop ANY investigation. Wonder why.

But read this and answer the same editor, if you can:

Where the HELL is YOUR Proof:

CLICK HERE

 
At 01 July, 2006 18:00, Blogger Avery Dylan said...

BG Says Jeffery did it.

 
At 01 July, 2006 18:03, Blogger Richard said...

Sorry but the burden of proof is on you. Name some of the "HUNDREDS of discrepancies" that have been found. Do any of them totally blow away the official story? I highly doubt it. If you are the ones that want to show us the truth and you are the ones that want better investigations then it's YOUR job to go out find the evidence and bring it out. If it's so air tight on you end take the info to court. Why are you sitting around typing up a comment on a blog if your so damned concerned for the truth.? If everything is so clear, concrete, well established, proven, unquestionable, and true why haven't you done anything about it? Our side has already done the investigations and we have our story that just happens to include those crazy liitle things called facts. If you want something done about it then the burden of proof is on you!

P.S. Still waiting on an answer to that thermate question....

 
At 01 July, 2006 18:14, Blogger CHF said...

Why do CTers have such a hard time understand where the burden of proof lies?

 
At 01 July, 2006 18:59, Blogger shawn said...

Why do CTers have such a hard time understand where the burden of proof lies?

It's just like the "disprove God" notion.

 
At 01 July, 2006 19:36, Blogger undense said...

LOL @ bg,

The link you posted claims that because most people couldn't possibly imagine government complicity in 9/11, government involvement must therefore be true. It's so incredulous that it must be credible. What a wonderfully moronic rationale.

Of course, who would doubt the analysis of a website named "TVNewslies.com?"

 
At 01 July, 2006 19:43, Blogger JoanBasil said...

I don't think anything's been debunked. Its almost 5 years; is he living off nuts and berries like Eric Rudolph?

 
At 01 July, 2006 20:14, Blogger shawn said...

I don't think anything's been debunked.

If you're referring to conspiracy claims, then you're willfully ignorant.

 
At 01 July, 2006 20:23, Blogger James B. said...

I don't think anything's been debunked. Its almost 5 years; is he living off nuts and berries like Eric Rudolph?



Have you ever heard of Pakistan's Northern Frontier? There are places there even the Pakistani Army won't go.

Ratko Mladic and Radovan Karadic have been hiding for twice as long as Osama, even with the French and Germans looking for them (that last part was sarcasm btw)

 
At 01 July, 2006 21:14, Blogger ScottSl said...

I'm noticing a pattern among CT'ers.

Most people who ask "where's the proof?' haven't read the Commission Report or the Trial documents.

The only thing they tend to read is a sloppy dishonest cliff note from Griffin or some other latest fruitcake of the week.

 
At 01 July, 2006 21:20, Blogger nesNYC said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 01 July, 2006 21:21, Blogger nesNYC said...

You forgot to mention FBI counterterrorism chief Dale Watson.

 
At 01 July, 2006 21:24, Blogger nesNYC said...

I don't think anything's been debunked. Its almost 5 years; is he living off nuts and berries like Eric Rudolph?

LOL! Yeah, and the US military spotted him the other day outrunning and F-16 :D

 
At 01 July, 2006 21:46, Blogger nesNYC said...

These reports in the CBS story are based off of a couple of anonymous Pakistanis who were supposedly there, hardly the most reliable sources.

Isn't the whole Bin Laden fabrication from second hand foreign sources as well? I mean, the US did funnel money to the Pakistani ISA? Didn't ISA chief transfer $100,000 to Atta? Even Musharref said Bin Laden was dead. How are the Pakistanis not reliable when the whole hijacker caper has their ISA stuck in the middle?

 
At 01 July, 2006 22:16, Blogger jackhanyes said...

The link you posted claims that because most people couldn't possibly imagine government complicity in 9/11, government involvement must therefore be true.

Hardly. It's stating that sometimes the unthinkable and unbelieveable is true. Basicly, until we can accept that we may been deceived (which is a the first step towards truth), our inabilty to think beyold what we must think to live our life style, we will be kept trapped by the lies.

Then it goes on to say that the people who would know if it's an inside aren't talking because it's not longer about secrecy, but the survival of the United States of America as a viable power.

Stop and think for one second. What would this country do if, and this is a big if, on the 6 o'clock news the cover was blown and it was found out that 9/11 was an inside job? There would be panic in the streets!

Sadly, an awaken like that won't come, not because it's not true, but because Americans are content as long as they have thier life style. And no one wants to rock the boat, so to say. That makes them easy to control and allow the government to walk over them.

 
At 01 July, 2006 22:24, Blogger nesNYC said...

Didn't ISA chief transfer $100,000 to Atta?

Better LINK.

 
At 01 July, 2006 22:29, Blogger nesNYC said...

Sadly, an awaken like that won't come, not because it's not true, but because Americans are content as long as they have thier life style.

I disagree. An awakening will happen, only not with the desired results. I think something big will happen within the next 5 years that will devastate Americans. Might be the economy; might be the cover getting blown off of 9/11. But the goal of the globalists is to destroy American sovereignty and to do that they have to create an erosion of confidence in our system.

 
At 01 July, 2006 23:13, Blogger James B. said...

It's ISI genius. Do you have any original thoughts of your own?

 
At 01 July, 2006 23:39, Blogger Richard said...

Even Musharref said Bin Laden was dead. How are the Pakistanis not reliable when the whole hijacker caper has their ISA stuck in the middle?

Dude, Nes, seriously. How the hell am I supposed to believe anything you say if you say Musharref is dead and link me to an article where this is the first thing I read...

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan (CNN) -- Pakistan's president says he THINKS Osama bin Laden is most likely dead because the suspected terrorist has been unable to get treatment for his kidney disease.

If you can't be bothered to even read the link you give how am I supposed to believe the truthers have tons of evidence? You post some crazy stuff but I'm not letting this one get away. This post is the perfect example of how the CT mind works.

P.S. Since when do you rely on CNN?!?!? I thought they were part of the evil mass media? If CNN is valid then why knock us for using mass media references?

 
At 01 July, 2006 23:49, Blogger BG said...

Richard,

....Sure it may apply to some situations but it doesn't apply to them all.....

Richard, and everyone,

I'm not claiming that the article that I linked to proves anything.

I'm saying it proposes a possible explanation why so many people aren't swayed by evidence to put 2 and 2 together.

 
At 02 July, 2006 00:15, Blogger ScottSl said...

A lot of us thought Bin Laden might be dead for a while.

I believe damnation (penny) thought he was dead at one time also. To take that idea back in 2002, then run with it to make some sort of conspiracy...well that's just a pulling a Fetzer.

 
At 02 July, 2006 04:44, Blogger shawn said...

Sadly, an awaken like that won't come, not because it's not true

Actually, that's exactly why it won't come.

 
At 02 July, 2006 04:48, Blogger shawn said...

"Obviously Hitler survived, because some people think he escaped the Fuhrerbunker." - CTs in the 40s

 
At 02 July, 2006 04:49, Blogger shawn said...

Better LINK.

You linked to an editorial, numbskull.

 
At 02 July, 2006 09:48, Blogger nesNYC said...

P.S. Since when do you rely on CNN?!?!? I thought they were part of the evil mass media? If CNN is valid then why knock us for using mass media references?

Truth is Musharref is confident Bin Laden is dead; you quote a paragraph that states the position of CNN on his opinion. He clearly says he strongly favors that he is dead just under what you [mis]quoted.

But I use CNN for your benefit, not mine. I know of a obituary and last will an testament written by Bin Laden shortly before he died.

 
At 02 July, 2006 10:13, Blogger Avery Dylan said...

Like, hey man, Who got Bin Laden's stuff?


I mean, he had a couple three guns I'm sure, and what 3 , 4 wives, hey man I bet he had a lot of stuff and they're all scrapping over it. He could have left me some money, ha ha, like then It wouldn't be loose change.

 
At 02 July, 2006 10:31, Blogger James B. said...

Truth is Musharref is confident Bin Laden is dead; you quote a paragraph that states the position of CNN on his opinion. He clearly says he strongly favors that he is dead just under what you [mis]quoted.



Oh really. You wouldn't selectively be using evidence, now, would you? Nah, a conspiracy theorists would never do that. They are objective and consider all evidence, not just that which favors them. What that would be dishonest.

Saturday, September 25, 2004

NEW YORK (CNN) -- Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf has said he has little doubt that Osama bin Laden is still alive but denied his own security service is aiding al Qaeda.

In an interview with CNN on Friday, Musharraf said he is "reasonably sure" that bin Laden is still alive.

He said the reason bin Laden is still at large is a combination of the terrain where he disappeared -- in remote eastern Afghanistan or western Pakistan -- and that "he has supporters" in the area where he is hiding.


CNN September 2004

 
At 02 July, 2006 10:45, Blogger Richard said...

Truth is Musharref is confident Bin Laden is dead; you quote a paragraph that states the position of CNN on his opinion. He clearly says he strongly favors that he is dead just under what you [mis]quoted.

Actually no I didn't misquote him. Here is the line directly under the one I gave before:

"I THINK now, frankly, he is dead for the reason he is a ... kidney patient," Gen. Pervez Musharraf said on Friday in an interview with CNN.

Can you even read? I don't know where you get confidence from the word "think."

There is a HUGE difference between thinking someone is dead and saying someone is dead. Musharraf thinks he is dead because of his kidneys. He doesnt say thatr I KNOW he is dead because of his kidneys. That's like if you stopped posting for a few weeks and people said "I think nesnyc is dead because he hasn't been posting." It is a possibility but it doesnt have to be true. This quote in the article spells that out:

"He is using very reasonable deductive reasoning, (but) we don't know (bin Laden) is dead," said the official, who requested anonymity. "We don't have remains or evidence of his death. So it is a decent and reasonable conclusion -- a good guess but it is a guess."

But I use CNN for your benefit, not mine. I know of a obituary and last will an testament written by Bin Laden shortly before he died.

Well you didn't use it very well. You made a claim that was easily proven wrong 1 second into reading the article. Second, a Last Will and Testament doesn't mean someone is dead, hell I have one and I'm very much alive. As for the obituary can you provide us with evidence it's true or do we just have to take the articles word for it even though no one else has ever shown solid proof that he is dead.

 
At 02 July, 2006 14:05, Blogger ScottSl said...

After that last bomb I think its only a matter of time before other CT'ers start calling nesNYC black ops.

I love this guy! LOL!!

 
At 13 December, 2006 17:19, Anonymous Anonymous said...

this web site rules. the american public needs more clever sacastic self gratifying comments like those found here to prove that our government (especially the bush administration,) had suffient cause to go to war in both iraq and afganistan.
will someone here pllease explain to be how it's a myth that our government has supported osoma bin laden, the taliban and saddam with cash and weapons.
look out iran.

 
At 27 December, 2006 03:02, Blogger Paulie said...

Richard you are an idiot! you latch on to a line here a phrase there and say see the CT are wrong it didn't happen or it was this way or that.
Go to Paul Thompson's time or watch Press for the Truth video on Google. and debunk that. You are a Fool with a capital F.

 
At 26 May, 2007 08:39, Blogger Jamiezwordz said...

This is all BS!! This whole article is to debunk 9/11 truth and loose change... well-ya didn't. You're telling me, that the BEST military in the WORLD couldn't take down 4 little planes that were HUGE threats? They chose to let 3000 die...instead of a couple hundred on the planes? Yeah- RIGHT! They were at a STAND DOWN. Proof that it was all planned. SOD does not freeze and stand down when a threat to the US is happening... and about Osama, how can you believe one journalist over a few Pakistanis? What's the difference. Either way- there's no hard proof. That's all a distraction anyways-none of it really matters. They just want to show that Osama is a spokesman... a puppet.

 

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