Thursday, June 29, 2006

Jim Fetzer Condemns All Structural Engineers to Hell!

lyI would like to move on to another subject, but this guy is really ticking me off, and every time I listed to something he says I just find one idiotic statement after another. Now Fetzer is getting into one of the key rules of conspiracy theories, if experts disagree with you, there must be some ominous reason. From an interview with fellow "scholar" Judy Wood, at the 40:50 mark of the second hour:

I am disgusted, disgusted with the structural engineers who know the truth about this and are keeping their mouth shut. There’s a special place in HELL, reserved for them. And they are going to deserve it.

Yeah, that is the obvious answer, it is not that you are a blithering idiot who doesn't know what you are talking about, it is that every single structural engineer in the world is a coward. The ironic thing is the "scholars" claim to be a bunch of experts, including some mysterious structural engineers that they cannot produce.

Only 30 seconds later, Fetzer shows why no structural engineer agrees with him:

Steve Jones who has done a tremendous amount of study about the physical possible alternative about the physical explanation of the collapse believes that a very powerful explosion known as thermite was used, and a sulfer enhanced version known as thermate was used, in that in order to bring about the pulverization of the concrete, the office furniture and all that. It may very well have been in a nano-technology enhanced version called super-thermate. That this could account for the phenomena that were observed here and explain all the evidence we have available about the collapse.

Fetzer calls thermite an "very powerful explosion" (I listened to it 5 times to make sure), by which I assume he meant to say "explosive". Either way he is an idiot. Thermite is not an explosive much less a "very powerful" one. It is a mixture of aluminum and iron oxide that when ignited produces tremendous heat, it does not explode. It is not used an an explosive, but an incindiary for welding or military grenades. The stupid thing about him saying this, is if he would have paid attention to "Scholar" co-founder Jones, Jones explains this at length. And he wonders why no structural engineer takes him seriously!

He then continues with lies about how they could have got this into the WTC, which we have covered here before from Loose Change:

And that during the two weeks, before or prior to 9/11 there were abnormal security lapses in the twin towers. Major sections of the buildings were closed down. The employees were sent home. The security apparatus was shut off. And teams, being described as engineers, were sent in an out of the buildings to have free access to all parts of the building ostensibly to do recabling in the building but it had never happened before. And Steve estimates that as few as 10 men, uhh 40 men, making 4 trips apiece could have planted enough thermate to bring about the explosions that we observed in all of those effects.

This is a mixture of two conflicting stories. One from Ben Fountain, who said there were unusual emergency evacuations, and Scott Forbes who said part of the weekend before 9/11 the power for part of one of the towers was shut down for work (but there were no unusual evacuations). Nobody was sent home, Forbes actually talks about being there while some of the work was going on, and the security was not shut down. Of course with Fetzer this magically morphs into engineers had free access to the "buildings"

64 Comments:

At 29 June, 2006 17:21, Blogger roger_sq said...

Jim Fetzer rules.

You guys are just jealous because he gets to be on the radio and you're stuck moderating comic book blogs.

 
At 29 June, 2006 17:33, Blogger shawn said...

You guys are just jealous because he gets to be on the radio and you're stuck moderating comic book blogs.

You become more inane as time goes on.

 
At 29 June, 2006 17:35, Blogger roger_sq said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 29 June, 2006 17:38, Blogger roger_sq said...

You become more inane as time goes on.

When in Rome...

 
At 29 June, 2006 17:41, Blogger default.xbe said...

When in Rome...

i think hes referring to the CT community here

 
At 29 June, 2006 17:53, Blogger CHF said...

Fetzer rules alright. Just not in the way you think.

He rules because he's destroying the 9/11 Truth movement all by himself!

ALL STRUCTURAL ENGINEERS ARE GOING TO HELL!!!!

Yeah, you guys aren't just fucking crazy, are you?

No sireeee Bob....

 
At 29 June, 2006 17:59, Blogger roger_sq said...

Here's a partial list of individuals and agencies that were sanctioned, reprimanded, or otherwise held responsible for allowing a $400 billion dollar a year war machine to sit with thumbs twiddling while American civilian and military installations were attacked by known terrorists, many of whom had been under surveillence for years:








.

 
At 29 June, 2006 18:01, Blogger default.xbe said...

hey, those are all the relevant experts that support your CT claims!

 
At 29 June, 2006 18:01, Blogger CHF said...

Roger,

you guys seriously need to get together and come to some sort of agreement as to what happened.

Did Bush let it happen or did he rig the WTC with bombs, remote control planes into them and set off the explosives?

You folks need a story. Badly.

 
At 29 June, 2006 18:16, Blogger shawn said...

i think hes referring to the CT community here

No, he's just a moron. And not a skilled troll.

 
At 29 June, 2006 18:26, Blogger roger_sq said...

Roger,

you guys seriously need to get together and come to some sort of agreement as to what happened.


To do that we'd all have to be a bunch of bleating sheep awaiting some official work of fiction to dig down deep and discover what 'really' happened.

That's your role in this thing, not mine.

Did Bush let it happen or did he rig the WTC with bombs, remote control planes into them and set off the explosives?

Bush doesn't do anything, he's the Decider.

You folks need a story. Badly.

I concur. If the Us Gov wants to pull the gag order on Sibel Edwards, John Roberts, FDNY and all others present, and authorize an independent investigation giving subpoena powers to Catherine Austin Fitts, and Mike Ruppert, I think we'll get a story.

As it stands, the only stories are CT conjecture, and OS CT, which is myth.

 
At 29 June, 2006 18:31, Blogger CHF said...

Roger, if the "truth" is so obvious, why can't you CT freaks agree on what it is?

I mean, fuck dude, you're all over the map!

You guys know the OS is "myth" but have no clue as to what the truth is.

You realize this is a problem, right?

 
At 29 June, 2006 19:04, Blogger JoanBasil said...

yes, the fact that no one's been fired sure does stink on ice.

 
At 29 June, 2006 19:13, Blogger roger_sq said...

Roger, if the "truth" is so obvious, why can't you CT freaks agree on what it is?

I mean, fuck dude, you're all over the map!


It's 90% conjecture, at the least. Some is wild speculation. It's not a group, it's a bunch of people with their own perspective and opinions. Some are nuts!

You guys know the OS is "myth" but have no clue as to what the truth is.

You realize this is a problem, right?


Nope. The truth is not possible to discern based on the evidence at hand, and the evidence at hand is insufficient because it has been buried by the establishment. Hence (I'm repeating myself) a legitimate investigation is required.

Based on the collective information assembled by a 30 billion dollatr per year intelligence program unparalleled anywhere in the world, it was determined that Iraq had:

25,000 liters of anthrax

400 bombs fiulled with biological weapons

at least 18 biological weapons factories on wheels and on rails

550 artillery shells with mustard, 30,000 empty munitions and enough precursors to increase his stockpile to as much as 500 tons of chemical agents.

And of course, yeller cake.

This piece of wholesale fiction was put forth to the world as fact based on hard evidence, rubber stamped by Congress and put to work for the subsequent invasion of Iraq. Yet you want to tell me this same intelligence gathering operation made no material and factual errors in determining guilt and responsibility in 9/11, and that the evidence was duly considered absent political agendas.

Without a new, independent investigation, I applaud the "movement to harrass the cowards in media with whatever moonbat theories they care to knock around, as the end result is that a core of intelligent AMericans will come to realize they are being lied to about what really did happen. Then we will get a real investigation.

 
At 29 June, 2006 19:15, Blogger nesNYC said...

You know, that's the same arguments I was making here for the longest. But it all doesn't matter, either by design or by preponderance of the evidence, the 9/11 house of cards if beginning to crumble.

Remember how I said the entire premise that 9/11 was pulled off by "Al Qaeda" is the Achilles heel of the official version, this site and various other "debunking sites? Well, this just in today. We find "Al Qaeda" isn't as all reaching as once told by the Government, exactly as I had pointed out various times. By the facts slowly making themselves known, it will be only a matter of time until the entire government 9/11 house of cards begins to crumble.


The Myth of Al Qaeda

 
At 29 June, 2006 19:27, Blogger shawn said...

The truth is not possible to discern based on the evidence at hand

How postmodern. It certainly is obvious for anyone with eyes to see. All the evidence supports the "offical story" and none supports any of the various theories, don't you understand Occam's Razor?


And nesnyc, if there's 500 or 1000 members on 9/11 (I've read about 3000, but I digress), what does that matter? It took 19 to physically commit the attacks on 9/11.

 
At 29 June, 2006 19:38, Blogger Richard said...

Did you even read the article?!?! No where in there does it say Al Qaeda is a "myth" just that some of the members are hyped up more than what they really are. Not really news IMO. The article clearly states that Al Qaeda does exist. It even talks about those pesky jihadists that you don't believe exist. So what is, now that you have your article, do you now except the fact that Al Qaeda is real and that terrorists do exist or are they all CIA. Something tells me your going to go the CIA route, if thats true your "truth" movement hasn't gotten any further along. Just your ignorance.

 
At 29 June, 2006 19:41, Blogger nesNYC said...

It took 19 to physically commit the attacks on 9/11.

That's not what the article says. It says the US gov "intelligence" via torture on "Al Qaeda" that was later proved to be false. Just like the 9/11 "Mastermind" and "Moneyman" all the "evidence" was obtained through torture. The only think linking "Al Qaeda" to 9/11 now is the phony video tape of the fat Osama "confessing." Basically, the "Al Qaeda" story is a load of stinking bullshit!

 
At 29 June, 2006 19:42, Blogger CHF said...

roger, bg, joan,

According to your latest spokesman Fetzer, all structural engineers are going to hell.

Just curious, as to what you guys think.

Are structural engineers:

A) agents of the government

B) cowards

C) simply not as smart as you and Stephen Jones

D) experts in their fields who know a whole lot more than you guys (ie. you're the ones who are wrong)

 
At 29 June, 2006 19:42, Blogger nesNYC said...

just that some of the members are hyped up more than what they really are. Not really news IMO.

Huh? You do realize this "hype" is used as a justification for 2500+ US dead soldiers do you? Stop being a lemming, start being an American!

 
At 29 June, 2006 19:44, Blogger roger_sq said...

Ocams Razor is a fucking concept. It isn't a law of the universe. Get over it, there's more to the field of logic, evolve already.

Saddam had all of those WMD's outlined. He still has them, he took them with him in the hole they pulled him out of, and he now has them stowed in his prison cell under the bunk.

How many people were engaged in fabricating that complete myth, how many accepted it as factual and got behind it? The clear truth, applying Occam's razor as you've bastardized it, Saddam had them and he still has them. Because hundreds of people in dozens of agencies could never make something like that up.

As for the simple answer to 9/11. Motive and opportunity.

Postmodernist? God you should really ask whatever school you went to for a refund.

 
At 29 June, 2006 19:44, Blogger CHF said...

feel free to answer the above question as well, nesnyc.

 
At 29 June, 2006 19:47, Blogger nesNYC said...

B) cowards

I favor this, or "Patriotic Cowards" would be more like it.

 
At 29 June, 2006 19:48, Blogger shawn said...

The clear truth, applying Occam's razor as you've bastardized it

Well besides your analogy being terrible, I didn't bastardize anything. With all the evidence we have, the only logical conclusion is the "official" story. You have to make huge jumps to believe (yes, believe, it's based on faith) anything else. It's so weird that whenever a logical thought interferes with your worldview it's suddenly "bastardized" or wrong.

Postmodernist? God you should really ask whatever school you went to for a refund.

Pretending you can't find the truth here is a fucking postmodern idea (I know you think there's no enough evidence, but there is, that's why it's postmodern).
I'm an autodidact besides. I think it's hilarious that someone who can't support his points and says actual historical events were made up is insulting me.

 
At 29 June, 2006 19:49, Blogger MarkyX said...

I find it funny that CTs says the media is controlled by the government..

And Nesync here uses one to push a claim.

 
At 29 June, 2006 19:49, Blogger shawn said...

The only think linking "Al Qaeda" to 9/11 now is the phony video tape of the fat Osama "confessing."

The "fatness" has been debunked you dolt. You watch a terrible resolution video and assume he looks totally different. God, you won't let go of anything, no matter how wrong it is.

Also, your points in that article are moot. It doesn't say al-Qaeda is fake. It says that al-Qaeda did commit the 9/11 attacks. Do you even read what you link?!

 
At 29 June, 2006 19:51, Blogger CHF said...

ok nesnyc,

and the structural engineers in Europe, Asia....?

All chicken shit?

 
At 29 June, 2006 19:53, Blogger shawn said...

and the structural engineers in Europe, Asia....?

The NWO paid them off.

 
At 29 June, 2006 19:54, Blogger nesNYC said...

It even talks about those pesky jihadists that you don't believe exist. So what is, now that you have your article, do you now except the fact that Al Qaeda is real and that terrorists do exist or are they all CIA. Something tells me your going to go the CIA route, if thats true your "truth" movement hasn't gotten any further along. Just your ignorance.

Osama was a CIA asset. Most likely, he helped with the opium trade and most likely had very limited involvement with the Mujahadin during the Soviet/Afghan wars. "Al Qaeda" doesn't surface until '98 or so we're told and it officially is given it's name during the Kenya bombing trails in NYC.

See this when you get the time and tell me this group really exists:

http://marc.perkel.com/archives/000753.html

The MSNBC story, IMO, is setting people up to expect the next step in this story. First they disproved "Al Qaeda" reach in Iraq. Next step will be to discount them all together like the BBC video above does.

 
At 29 June, 2006 19:58, Blogger Richard said...

Huh? You do realize this "hype" is used as a justification for 2500+ US dead soldiers do you? Stop being a lemming, start being an American!

For your information high speed I served in the Army and fought in Iraq so I'm well aware of all of that because it DIRECTLY effected me. Even after fighting in Iraq I don't think that our Government is totally evil, I also don't buy into this CT crap. You get my drift buddy? If anyone wanted to know the truth it would be me and after searching for the truth I found out real quick that there was no vast conspiracy. I am an American and a true patriot. As much as I don't like you I would still put my life on the line to protect your right to be a total moron. That's what being an American is about. Get a clue buddy...

 
At 29 June, 2006 19:59, Blogger nesNYC said...

I find it funny that CTs says the media is controlled by the government..

And Nesync here uses one to push a claim.


I also say their only giving half of the story. One of the requirements to the destruction of the United States is the erosion of confidence in the system as it presently stands. The exposure of 9/11 scam would be a perfect opportunity to have a second physiological attack on the US and effect this erosion. That and a conjunction of the collapse of the monetary system of the collapse of the monetary system blamed on the erosion fits the "plan" quite nicely.

 
At 29 June, 2006 20:01, Blogger JoanBasil said...

I'll go with cowards, too.

C-SPAN had Mearsheimer and Walt of the "Israel Lobby" paper on the other day and it was a show packed with ironies. I guess the most profound of the ironies was Rachel Corrie's aunt calling in. Its hard to call a C-SPAN call-in; I've tried but I don't have that much patience to dial over and over. Rachel's aunt had to do that to get to speak to the American people, after a year when anyone who lived in Natalee Holloway's home town and wanted to say she was "nice" could get on a half dozen cable shows.

But anyway, the irony that applies to this thread was Mearsheimer saying that to create the state of Israel it was inevitable that the Palestinians would suffer a great deal. But then he said several times that he and Walt think its a "WONDERFUL (emphasis his) thing" that Israel exists. That was fear talking. Those 2 guys took so much flak for that brief paper they wrote and now they want so bad to go on record that they don't REALLY care about the humanity of the Palestinians. The Palestinians have had to suffer for almost 60 years already and for God knows how many more years, but its WONDERFUL to have the Jewish state. It was such cowardice; very interesting to watch him: Did he know how bad it looked for him?

 
At 29 June, 2006 20:02, Blogger shawn said...

Ok so the 9/11 was committed by the NWO in order to then reveal the plan so that people would want to dismantle the United States?

As much as I loathe the UN (or any attempt at an international governing body), that's just ludicrous. It has no basis in reality.

 
At 29 June, 2006 20:04, Blogger shawn said...

Joan, are you totally loony?

You bring up that anti-semitic hit piece "Israel Lobby" paper and then talk about Rachel Corrie. She was a member of the terrorist-enabling ISM. She didn't move from a gun-running tunnel and died. It's her own fault she died, people need to take responsibility for their actions. At least make good points when criticizing Israel.

 
At 29 June, 2006 20:04, Blogger shawn said...

Next joan's gonna quote Juan Cole on Israel to buttress her points.

 
At 29 June, 2006 20:05, Blogger nesNYC said...

Even after fighting in Iraq I don't think that our Government is totally evil, I also don't buy into this CT crap.

How many WMD did you find? You will come around eventually. Remember, you were in an area where vast quantities of depleted uranium were introduced into the environment (a real WMD). You may not feel it now, but the effects will kick in.

 
At 29 June, 2006 20:06, Blogger shawn said...

Oh man that DU nonsense now.

 
At 29 June, 2006 20:07, Blogger nesNYC said...

and the structural engineers in Europe, Asia....?

LOL! Yeah, like America is in good standing overseas lately...

 
At 29 June, 2006 20:08, Blogger shawn said...

LOL! Yeah, like America is in good standing overseas lately...

Moron, he was pointing out how none of them side with your insanity either.

 
At 29 June, 2006 20:12, Blogger JoanBasil said...

She deserved to die? She deserved to be killed with a bulldozer? That was the only way to remove her?

Rachel's aunt said that the family could not get any members of Congress to call for an independent investigation. They told the family that Israel was "problematic."

 
At 29 June, 2006 20:14, Blogger nesNYC said...

dismantle the United States?

It's going to happen weather you like it or not. It's just a matter of how.

Here we have Bush getting ready to give amnesty to millions and creating a Pan American Union. How do you think they are going to achieve this unless it is proved the government is so corrupt, it has to be integrated into a world global system?

Either by war or panic, the above is the desired effect of the globalists who hate America. They have successfully sent our jobs overseas, taken away our manufacturing base and are now in process of taking away our hi-tech sector. What is the purpose of all the above? The next step will be to bankrupt us and create social upheavals so horrible, we will cry out for a global "tyrannical" government to save us!

Paul Warburg:

"We shall have World Government, whether or not we like it. The only question is whether World Government will be achieved by conquest or consent."

 
At 29 June, 2006 20:18, Blogger nesNYC said...

Moron, he was pointing out how none of them side with your insanity either.

My point, like they really give two shits about the goings on in the US these days. You do know half the world hates us, right?

 
At 29 June, 2006 20:25, Blogger James B. said...

Uhh, if they hated us, wouldn't they be even more eager to prove Bush killed 3,000 of our own civilians? Or am I missing something?

 
At 29 June, 2006 20:28, Blogger Richard said...

How many WMD did you find? You will come around eventually. Remember, you were in an area where vast quantities of depleted uranium were introduced into the environment (a real WMD). You may not feel it now, but the effects will kick in.

Besides the ones that were already on the books, none. How many people did I help by giving them food and supplies, many. How many kids did I keep from blowing themselves up playing with 20+ year old RUSSIAN ammo, many many children. I went out and did a good thing and helped a lot of people. I don't pretend that the US government is perfect. I disagree a great deal with tons of the current administrations policies. Do you see the point I'm trying to make? If a moderate free thinker such as myself who

-holds no allegance to the current administration

-Lost friends on 9/11

-Participated in the GWOT

can still see past the the CT, what does that say about its credibility? No one wants the truth more than me and I found it. Don't know what you guys are waiting for...

What have you done with your life buddy? Your in a delusional state, you think your a patriot and a seeker of truth but in reality, sir, you are a coward. Maybe one day you will come around.

 
At 29 June, 2006 20:28, Blogger MarkyX said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 29 June, 2006 20:33, Blogger nesNYC said...

How many people did I help by giving them food and supplies, many. How many kids did I keep from blowing themselves up playing with 20+ year old RUSSIAN ammo, many many children.

Do you understand it was YOUR government sponsored sanction that had the people living like this?

And thank for sharing the truth about WMD. As we all know now, that story was nothing but lies. Just like the "Al Qaeda" lies. Just like the "War on Terror" lies.

The government itself is not evil. It is the people that have hijacked it that are evil.

 
At 29 June, 2006 20:35, Blogger Avery Dylan said...

Like, hey man, has anyone checked out his credentials as a Marine officer?

 
At 29 June, 2006 20:38, Blogger nesNYC said...

What have you done with your life buddy? Your in a delusional state, you think your a patriot and a seeker of truth but in reality, sir, you are a coward. Maybe one day you will come around.

If I turned around just one person from believing in lies than I have done enough. However, I have convinced many to see just past the government deceptions you think are truths. If that is delusional, then I'll plead guilty.

So you disagree with a lot of what the government is doing. That's a start. You just need to dig a little more as to what is happening is indeed happening. Don't close yourself to one reality.

 
At 29 June, 2006 20:41, Blogger CHF said...

"My point, like they really give two shits about the goings on in the US these days. You do know half the world hates us, right?"

Jesus H. Christ! Isn't their hatred of America all the more reason to expose Bush?

How old are you, nesnyc? I have 6 year old nephews who have more common sense than you.

A hatred of Bush would see foreign engineers IGNORE THE BIGGEST CONSPIRACY IN MODERN HISTORY?

What kind of moron thinks this way?

 
At 29 June, 2006 21:46, Blogger BG said...

CHF,

For what it's worth, I'm the caller (Bill from Texas) on today's show. I'm trying to ask Fetzer to reconsider being "in your face".

I just can't see how he can be helping the cause with being so sloppy and emotional.

 
At 29 June, 2006 21:49, Blogger CHF said...

Well I guess that's a start, bg.

Prozak would do Fetzer a world of good.

Next time tell him to reconsider being so reluctant to let go of long-discredited nonsence.

Better yet, just get a new spokesman.

 
At 29 June, 2006 21:51, Blogger James B. said...

When do you come on BG? I must have missed that part. I can't stand 2 straight hours of that moron.

 
At 29 June, 2006 22:53, Blogger jackhanyes said...

Shawn! You got a new words:

inane!
troll!
postmodern!

Good for you!

I see you have stopped using Logical Fallacy. That breaks my heart. But it good to see you're using a few new words! Keep up the good work.

 
At 29 June, 2006 23:42, Blogger default.xbe said...

Shawn! You got a new words:

inane!
troll!
postmodern!

Good for you!

I see you have stopped using Logical Fallacy. That breaks my heart. But it good to see you're using a few new words! Keep up the good work.


dont worry, ill be pointing out all your logical fallacies from now on

 
At 30 June, 2006 05:58, Blogger JPSlovjanski said...

On the insanity of trying to link the 911 conspiracy theory to the Iraq WMD debacle:

How do we know that there were lies regarding WMDs in Iraq? Because of WHISTLEBLOWERS and opposition, plus government reports and even admissions from the White House. Thus far, NO such evidence has come forward on 9-11. Occam's Razor tells us that 9-11 was most likely NOT an "inside job", particularly because of the absolutely lack of whistleblowers as well as support from experts in relvent fields of study.

Incidentily, I found it hilarious that cons are now starting to claim that there are 500 munitions found in Iraq that count as WMDs. Too bad these weren't stored properly, are over a decade old, aren't WMDs(Sarin and Mustard gas aren't WMDs), and could in no way pose a threat to the US or any of Iraq's neighbors.

So we see that such a gang of complete morons could never pull off such a successful "false flag" terrorist attack any more than they could find their ass with two hands.

 
At 30 June, 2006 06:56, Blogger LT said...

JPSL

"Too bad these weren't stored properly, are over a decade old, aren't WMDs(Sarin and Mustard gas aren't WMDs), and could in no way pose a threat to the US or any of Iraq's neighbors."

Are you out of your freakin mind? So what if they are old. Most munitions of this sort are old because there is a treaty against their use
dumbass. Secondly, how is it that they AREN'T WMD? Do you know what one drop of Sarin is capable of killing? Thats the same shit that Saddam used on the Kurds. Thirdly, "in no way pose a threat to the US". Nah, Saddam could have never sold those weapons to terrorists to use against the US, or its soldiers abroad. Just like he didn't pay thousands of dollars to suicide bombers. He never really hatched a plan to assassinate former president Bush either. Suitcase bombs (nukes) are not really a worry of the US either, so I'm sure an artillery shell with Sarin, or just the Sarin itself, wouldn't be a concern. Dude, you have got to be one of the biggest friggin idiots i've seen comment on this site in a long time, not withstanding the usual crew - NES, BG, and Joan. Welcome to the club dumbass.

 
At 30 June, 2006 07:25, Blogger JoanBasil said...

jp,
there's been no accountability for lying us into invading Iraq and thats too bad but someone who was involved in 9/11 --- surely, he couldn't just go on Larry King and talk about it? There's no incentive to come forward and say you were involved in mass murder. (None for bin Laden either; the tape miraculously "found" in Jalalabad is a fake. Who is the little crippled guy that bin Laden and Zawahiri are supposed to be meeting with? How come we can't find him either? He should be No. 2 on the most wanted list if he could get a meeting with Osama bin Laden after 9/11. He's necessary to the staging of the "confession.")

bg,
Maybe Fetzer's onto something: You get on the air by being obnoxious. Seriously, look at people like Anne Coulter, J. D. Hayworth, Al Sharpton, Kate O'Beirne, Peter King, Joe Biden, Melanie Morgan - well, you get my point, think of the people you see on TV over and over and why are you seeing them rather than well-spoken, polite, thoughtful people who wait their turn?

 
At 30 June, 2006 07:41, Blogger BG said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 30 June, 2006 07:42, Blogger BG said...

joan,

I think we both have the same basic understanding of the possible deceptions related to 9/11, and want justice through a true investigation.

I don't mean to be arguing with you.

However, in the case of talking about 9/11, I don't think it's fair to go with the adage "any publicity" (or specifically TV air time )coincides with success in getting the larger public to look into 9/11 questions. If fact, when Alex Jones, and Jim Fetzer become emotional or misstate their case, or talk about unsupported claims, I think it's fair to say that they manage to discredit the rest of GSS'ers.

Based on what I can tell, given the power what we might have called the "Establishment" in the 60's, "9/11 Truth" seems to me to have it's fate sealed as a fringe group that probably reached it's peak of gaining credibility with Griffin's speech from Wisconsin being rebroadcast on C-SPAN.

The only way I could even see a breakthru happenning would be if forums like this blog could win over larger numbers of internet-based knowledge seekers.

And look how well that is going.

 
At 30 June, 2006 16:32, Blogger BG said...

James,

The call-in didn't starting until the second hour. I was the first caller. Talked about Arup.

 
At 30 June, 2006 17:08, Blogger shawn said...

there's been no accountability for lying us into invading Iraq

Joan, understand this - there is a difference between lying and acting on information you believe to be true. I don't call all of you liars when you say blatantly false things, because you think they're true.

 
At 01 July, 2006 09:33, Blogger JPSlovjanski said...

Sorry IT, but Sarin has a SHELF life of about THREE months, plus it must be properly stored. Furthermore, the caliber of the shells found is also a factor. Lastly, chemical weapons have a history for being unreliable.

As for Saddam giving or selling these weapons to terrorists; first off, lots of countries have such weapons and we don't claim that they are about to sell them to terrorists. More importantly, Saddam's regime has a history of not trusting terrorist groups. It would be idiocy for him to give up control of such weapons to people who have sworn to kill him.

I suggest you read Michael Scheuer's Through Our Enemies Eyes to see what Osama Bin Laden thought about Saddam Hussein. Had the Saudi's responded to OBL's letters, the Gulf War might have seen Saddam's forces bled to death in a drawn out guerilla conflict with Bin Laden's Mujahadeen.

 
At 01 July, 2006 20:18, Blogger shawn said...

More importantly, Saddam's regime has a history of not trusting terrorist groups.

That's about as ridiculous as the "Saddam would never side with terrorists, he was a secular leader!"

Saddam offered payment for Palestinian suicide bombers. He offered sheltered to terrorists who had murdered Americans. His officials looked into creating a suicide brigade to attack American interests worldwide.

 
At 10 May, 2007 06:46, Blogger Orc said...

Roger! Come back, these poor people are rotting without you. Your Ocams Razor comment was lovely. I've had to refute Ocams groupies before and wish I was so clever as to put things in such perspective when doing so. I know a world class engineer who finds the twin towers collapse to be very questionable, though admits he does not know.

 

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