Professor Fetzer Admits His Classes Are Bogus
I have discussed the subject of quote mining on numerous occasions, this is the practice where conspiracy theorists take a quote, or part of a quote, out of context and then apply their own interpretation to get the quote to mean something that supports their argument. This occurs not just in Loose Change, but the movement as a whole, the Larry Silverstein "pulling" quote, and Norman Mineta, among others. I figured, just for fun, that I would do the same to them, to make an example. From 2 minute mark of the second hour of the aforementioned radio program with Professor Jim Fetzer:
To have a course you got to have readings, you got to have a syllabus; you got to have exams, none of that is true of any of my undergraduate courses.
Well now that we have him on record admitting his classes are academic frauds, it makes his conspiracy theories that much easier to understand.
posted by James B. @ 1:08 PM
55 comments
55 Comments:
Larry Silverstein "pulling" quote, and Norman Mineta, among others.
Come on! We have established this being a lie (the excuse) as he wasn't the one to make the call to "pull" the firefighters that were not in the building anyway. When he said "pull it" that's what he meant.
If the Minetta case, that is ONLY your opinion. What he said doesn't leave room for "supposition" of others, it is simple observation and not "quote" mining as you're assuming.
BTW, I see this blog still can't for a cohesive rebuttal in the official conspiracy's defense because a lie is pretty damn hard to defend with more lies.
Come on! We have established this being a lie (the excuse) as he wasn't the one to make the call to "pull" the firefighters that were not in the building anyway. When he said "pull it" that's what he meant.
Oh, so they attached cables to WTC7 and pulled it down? Because that's what "pull it" means when demolition people are using it.
Also, why would the decision to "pull" be based on the fact that there was a large loss of life?
If we assume that he was referring to "pulling the building down" rather than "pulling the firefighters out" then we would have to conclude that if there were not a large loss of life then he would have left the building standing.
You assumption makes no sense in the context of his words.
"your assumption" that is.
Nesnyc since you're back...I've been wondering.
How enraged are you now that Israel is finally striking back at the genocidal maniacs who kill their children every chance they get?
Like I said before, Fetzer is the same guy that gets up in front of large crowds and OUTRIGHt lies to them...
eg. He states that the tape from the cockpit voice recorder of flight 93 used in the moussaoui trial has the voices of the passengers discussing hitting the cabin door with a drink cart (in front of a gathered crowd he says this). Yet his comment is catagorically wrong. The Trascript from the tape (The actual tape was played only once in court, and was not released to the public. The transcript is all that is available) does not, at any point, have passengers saying anything closely resembling what he describes.
He then goes on to "prove" the tape is fake because you shouldn't be able to hear such conversations on the cockpit voice recorder.
Well, they never said what you said they said, so your point is moot, and a LIE!!!
"and they made that decision to pull and then we watched the building collapse"
Doesn't is sound by Uncle Larry's quote that they watched the building collapse soon after they made the decision to "pull"?
And why would they need to pull out firefighters when they were already "pulled" BEFORE the phone call to Larry?
10) Yes, Uncle Larry denies it. What did you expect him to say, "Yep, you caught me!"???
10) Yes, Uncle Larry denies it. What did you expect him to say, "Yep, you caught me!"???
Caught him? He casually talked about this. Why would he, in passing, calmy confess to the murder of thousands without anyone noting it until conspiracy theorists dig it up years later? Why would the firefighters be involved in the murder of over 300 of their comrades?
Killtown, let's look at this like an intelligent person would:
"and they made that decision to pull and then we watched the building collapse"
"We made the decision to evacuate the area, and then watched as the building collapsed."
*sigh*
Since most of the dumbasses talking about the "pull it" quote have never bothered to read the actual quote, here it is:
I remember getting a call from the, er, fire department commander, telling me that they were not sure they were gonna be able to contain the fire, and I said, "We've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is pull it." And they made that decision to pull and we watched the building collapse.
He specificaly states that "they made that decision to pull it". Never once does he claim that he ordered them to pull it. Nor does he suggest that they asked for his permission. AND he clearly states that he was speaking to a fire department official, and NOT a demolition company. So, no, he didn't order anyone to pull the building down, nor did he order the fire department to pull out of the building. All he really said is that he was having a conversation with the "fire department commander" in which he stated that in his opinion it might be a good idea to just pull out and leave the building to burn. Now, I'm just speculating here, but more than likely the conversation went something like this:
Fire Chief: Hello Mr Silverstein, I just wanted to keep you advised of the situation here with WTC 7.
Silverstein: Well, thank you, I appreciate that.
Fire Chief: So what we've got right now is a situation where the building has taken severe structural damage, and is engulfed in flames. It also appears to be tilting to one side. In addition to all that, we're having problems bringing in trucks and men, plus the water pressure to that area seems to be failing, so we're having a difficult time accomplishing anything at all. At this point we're considering simply pulling it, setting up a cordon to keep people a safe distance away, and then just leaving it to burn.
Silverstein: Well, yes, we've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do would be to pull it.
Fire Chief: Yes, that's what we're thinking. We'll keep you advised.
Silverstein: Thank you. Good luck.
At least, that's the way I'd imagine it would have gone. I find it much more likely than the CT version which would have gone something like this:
Silverstein: Allright there chief, listen, I know you're telling me you can put out this fire no problem, but I think I'm going to blow up the building.
Fire Chief: But....
Silverstein: No buts now. It's MY decision. Now let me get the demolition company on the phone.
*ring ring ring*
Demolition Chief: Hello?
Silverstein: Yeah, it's lary silverstein here. I want you to go ahead and blow up WTC7.
Demolition Chief: You mean with our magical explosives which don't require det-cord, and can survive for an hour in an active fire?
Silverstein: Yeah, those ones.
Fire Chief: What the hell....
Silverstein: Oh, are you still on the line? Yeah, you better start pulling your men out of the building because we're pushing that button any time now.
Demolition Chief: Just remember Mr. Silverstein, the next time you get interviewed, make sure you say that you had us "pull it". We wouldn't want the conspiracy nuts running out of material to accuse us with.
Silverstein: You got it! Now lets see a nice big BOOM!
What we don't have...
1) Clear view of the large hole...
3) Clear view of all the fires seen on the south side
We have the eyewitness testimony of the firefighters, though.
CTers treat firefighters with near religious reverence when they say the word explosion.
If these incorruptable paragons of virtue are always flawlessly accurate when they report explosions then they must be just as honest and forthright when reporting other phenomena as well.
Therefore, under the standards of eveidence the CTers have set, we need no further evidence.
LOL Good post Alex, we wouldn't want these theories to actually make sense, now, would we?
James B. said...
1)Caught him? He casually talked about this. Why would he, in passing, calmy confess to the murder of thousands without anyone noting it until conspiracy theorists dig it up years later?
2)Why would the firefighters be involved in the murder of over 300 of their comrades?
1) It was an accidentally slip. I doubt he even realized what he said until ways afterward. It's not like it was live, they could have redone the take if he caught himself slipping right after he did it.
2) Who was this "fire captain" Larry says called him?
Shawn, let's look at this like an intelligent person would:
"We made the decision to evacuate the area, and then watched as the building collapsed."
"They made the decision to pull the firefighters, even though they were already pulled back before I received that phone call, and about 5 hours later, we watched the building collapse."
I mean that's basically what Uncle Larry is saying according to you OCTs, right?
Let's see, CT version:
"I remember getting a call from the, er, fire department commander, telling me that they were not sure they were gonna be able to contain the fire, and I said, "We've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is pull [building 7]." And they made that decision to pull [building 7] and we watched the building collapse."
OCT version:
"I remember getting a call from the, er, fire department commander, telling me that they were not sure they were gonna be able to contain the fire, and I said, "We've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is pull [the operation]." And they made that decision to pull [the operation that had already been stopped] and we watched the building collapse."
OK, which makes more sense?
I mean that's basically what Uncle Larry is saying according to you OCTs, right?
You idiot, there were still people who were close enough to be injured by a collapse. That's what "pulling" means. Get out of the area.
Odd a firefighter used the exact same term that day, huh?
Which one makes more sense? What are you smoking crack? The CT version makes absolutely NO sense because the fire department doesn't demolish buildings, nor would they make a decision to do so.
Shawn said...
1) You idiot,
2)there were still people who were close enough to be injured by a collapse. That's what "pulling" means. Get out of the area.
1) Love how you OCTs talk.
2) THAT's not what Uncle Larry said he meant by "pull it," now is it?!
Alex said...
1) What are you smoking crack?
2)The CT version makes absolutely NO sense
3)because the fire department doesn't demolish buildings,
4)nor would they make a decision to do so.
1) No, are you?
2) You are right, I always refer people as "it".
3) Who says we think the Fire Dept demolished the building?
4) "They"? I thought just one "fire Captain" called him? (btw, who was that Fire Captain?)
1) Love how you OCTs talk.
You call a spade a spade, you call an idiot an idiot. It's how it works.
2) THAT's not what Uncle Larry said he meant by "pull it," now is it?!
He said to cease trying to save the building and evacuate the area.
ScottSl said...
A common error CT'ers also make is that they didn't realize there were some firefighters in building 7 pulling people out of the building during the afternoon.
A common error OCT'ers also make is that they keep changing the circumstances in which Uncle Larry's "pull it" allegedly meant!
Stick to ONE story.
A common error OCT'ers also make is that they keep changing the circumstances in which Uncle Larry's "pull it" allegedly meant!
Do you tire of being wrong.
Stick to ONE story.
You're not really one to tell anyone that.
1) No, are you?
2) You are right, I always refer people as "it".
3) Who says we think the Fire Dept demolished the building?
4) "They"? I thought just one "fire Captain" called him? (btw, who was that Fire Captain?)
1) I know you are but what am I?
2) You are right, I always call the Fire Captain when I want to blow up a building. Also, I've NEVER used the term "pull it in" when I want my soldiers to fall back from their positions and come to my location. Obviously "pull it" can only mean "blow shit up".
3) You do. Silverstein says the fire department made the decision to "pull it". In other words, according to your beleifs, the fire department decided to either blow up the building themselves, or to have someone else do it.
4) Yes, "they", dumbass. Since it's obvious you've never been a part of a team in your life, I'll explain that to you. Most organizations, and especialy those involved in emergency management, have a chain of command, meaning one person always officialy rubber-stamps the proposed action, and accepts responsibility. However, any leader worth anything always consults his staff and subordinates, and comes to a logical conclusion that most of them agree on. So, yes, THEY made the decision. As to the identity of the person who spoke to Silverstein, I don't know, and I don't particularily care. It's obvious you don't care either, because even if every firefighter on the scene at the time were to testify that nobody ordered anyone to blow up the building, you'd just call them all liars and then start talking about a cruise missile hitting WTC7, and all the office workers being teleported to cleveland.
Alex said...
1) I know you are but what am I?
2) You are right, I always call the Fire Captain when I want to blow up a building.
3) Obviously "pull it" can only mean "blow shit up".
4) You do. Silverstein says the fire department made the decision to "pull it".
5) Yes, "they"
1) Love the immaturity of OCTs.
2) And what was this "fire captain's" name again?
3) Yes, Controlled Demolition, Inc thinks that too!
4) No, you are ASSUMING Larry meant the fire dept made that decision.
See, you OCTs don't think out of the box much. Have you ever heard the expression "A few bad apples in the bunch"? Well what if a few firemen, policemen, FBI, Demolition company employees were in on it with Larry and the rest of the 9/11 perps. Wouldn't they all be referred to as "they"? Wouldn't that start to make some sense now that maybe, just maybe the Fire Captain was in on it and he called Larry to get the go ahead and then "they" made that decision to "pull" and that's why it sounded like Larry said that they all watched the building collapse soon after the decision was made?
Don't think conspirators are just going to come right out and tell you they were in on it.
No, you are ASSUMING Larry meant the fire dept made that decision.
ASSUMING? What are you fucking BLIND? He SAYS that "they made that decision"! LOOK:
And they made that decision to pull it and we watched the building collapse.
My god man! What's wrong with you? You're the kind of idiot who would watch me say "2 + 2 is 4", and then turn to buddy beside you and say "you're just assuming he said 2+2 is 4".
Don't think conspirators are just going to come right out and tell you they were in on it.
Isn't that exactly what you're claiming silverstein did? Just casualy said "oh yeah, we decided it'd be fun to just blow up the building. no big deal."
Ofcourse, it was "just a slip". They asked him to explain what happened to the building, and, after going though these elaborate precautions to make sure there were no witnesses to his crimes, he somehow managed to forget that he's not supposed to admit to it in fron ot a camera. Yeah, that makes perfect sense.
See, you OCTs don't think out of the box much.
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ScottSl said...Killtown, your website also makes another error.
You have the wrong guy as Hanjour on the video.
I make the error??? don't you mean the media made the error?
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Alex said...ASSUMING? What are you fucking BLIND? He SAYS that "they made that decision"!
So who is "they"? And don't assume.
apathoid said...Did the firemen run into the building and set the charges in 5 hours?
I can't debate with people who say such ignorant things. That's just as ignorant as when some of you OCTs say "well what did you expect Bush to do, run out of the room screaming and scaring the kids?"
I need to find and OCT forum WITH more mature and intelligent people. Not one's who says such ignorant things like that and hurl personal insults all the time.
I need to find and OCT forum WITH more mature and intelligent people. Not one's who says such ignorant things like that and hurl personal insults all the time.
You say something ignorant every time you post. Stop projecting.
Firehouse: Was there heavy fire in there right away?
Hayden: No, not right away, and that�s probably why it stood for so long because it took a while for that fire to develop.
Hmmm...
"With the collapse of both towers by 10:30 a.m., larger pieces of the twin towers had smashed parts of 7 World Trade and set whole clusters of floors ablaze. An hour later, the Fire Department was forced to abandon its last efforts to save the building as it burned like a giant torch.
"Falling debris also caused major structural damage to the building, which soon began burning on multiple floors, said Francis X. Gribbon, a spokesman for the Fire Department. By 11:30 a.m., the fire commander in charge of that area, Assistant Chief Frank Fellini, ordered firefighters away from it for safety reasons." -New York Times (11/29/01)
Seems like we are getting all sorts of conflicting information.
"We pulled everybody back probably by 3 or 3:30 in the afternoon. We said, this building is going to come down, get back."
Huh??? How did they know that? I thought the fire dept is not in the demolition business?
So let's see, Larry gets this call in the "afternoon" after they stopped their firefighting efforts:
In the afternoon of September 11, Mr. Silverstein spoke to the Fire Department Commander on site at Seven World Trade Center.
Then later on in the afternoon they knew the building was going to come down some how.
Must be another "coincidence," huh?
dman said...Killtown - you are a total A- HOLE!
Yeah, why do you say that?
Curious, how many of you have been banned from Loose Change forum and if you were, what was the reason?
debunking911 said...
Are they lying? YES OR NO?
Maybe as Miyagi said, "fraid a facts a mixed up."
Curious, how many of you have been banned from Loose Change forum and if you were, what was the reason?
I've been banned thrice.
Once for bringing up the B-25 error.
Once for bringing up the first edition.
Once for destroying a bunch of CT claims.
Dude, you don't have to do anything to be banned from the LC forum. Just argue against their inane theories and they will ban you within minutes. They aren't big on dissent over there.
Notice that we won't ban you. We find you amusing, but we are confident enough in our positions that you pose no threat to us. You just provide entertainment.
Shawn, I'd bet you got banned for being an asshole.
"apathoid said...I stay away from the LC forums because they make me cry for humanity and wish for Eugenics.."
Zieg Heil!
"James B. said...Just argue against their inane theories and they will ban you within minutes. They aren't big on dissent over there."
That may be true with a couple of admins over there, but for the most part, most OCTs got banned because they engaged in personal insults. The same way most OCTs act over at SLC forum.
Yes, lets address some facts real quick. This has got my perplexed about the Shanksville crash.
Why was just the inside of the crater burned and that small section of forest burned, but nothing immediately outside of the crater's rim and nothing between the crater and the burnt forest section?
How did this fireball jump up and over the service road to burn the forest, but nothing else?
Also, why did the fireball's direction conflict with the path of the alleged plane?
See here for diagram.
apathoid said...You are the Holocaust denying Nazi sympathizer on this blog
Prove I denied the holocaust ever happened and prove I'm a nazi sympathizer.
If you can't, then you are a liar with NO credibility.
debunking911 said...NO, you don't get to change the subject when you're caught until you finish the subject before it.
1) Stop whining.
2) what exactly is your question?
Shawn, I'd bet you got banned for being an asshole.
Technically speaking, yes every time was for being an asshole. I purposely brought up the B-25 error. I purposely brought up the changes between the editions. And I purposely tore apart all their idiotic beliefs.
Zieg Heil!
Damn, the Holocaust denier can't even spell it right (sieg heil).
debunking911 said...Ah, krustytheclown is back.
Was that directed at me?
Nice "quote mining" apathoid. Would you like to show everybody what else I said, or do you distort and take things out of context like you accuse CTs of doing?
Ever wonder why you are the common denominater for inciting general disdain wherever you go?
Cause I ask unpopular questions?
Nice "quote mining" apathoid. Would you like to show everybody what else I said, or do you distort and take things out of context like you accuse CTs of doing?
See the humor is that the statements he quoted from you can't have any further context. You already said the number of dead in the Holocaust is an issue for you. Unless your next sentence was "Just kidding!" it won't matter what he adds.
undense said...You seemingly can't distinguish between "unpopular" and "stupid."
debunking911 said...Is there another clown here?
Yes, more great immature personal attacks by the OCTs!
Why do OCTs engage a lot more often in personal attacks then CTs when debating? How do you think your credibility looks when you act so immature like this?
But hey, keep it up, it makes our side look better when we point out the language you guys use!
Shawn said...You already said the number of dead in the Holocaust is an issue for you.
You are right! I now think MORE Jews died so I guess that DOES make me a 'Holocaust deniar' according to your guy's definition!!!
hey KKKilltown.
What is your skin, hair and eye color?
apathoid said...What part of........was taken out of context?
When you forgot to include the rest of what I said.
So here's anorher riddle: If the idea was to pull WTC7 from the start, then why tell Larry Silverstein about it? Wasn't he the sole beneficiary of the insurance indemnity payments of more than $ 7 billion? Wasn't he the guy that alledgely knew - according to CT claims - that this was coming?
Why do OCTs engage a lot more often in personal attacks then CTs when debating?
Yeah, we're the ones who don't prove our case, and then when no one agrees with us we call them "sheep" and "shills".
Oh...wait.
"Curious, how many of you have been banned from Loose Change forum and if you were, what was the reason?"
I'm currently doing a 28-day suspension for suggesting that the best way to counter criticism of the errors in LC is to correct them.
What's wrong with judicial-inc.biz?
I just threw up a little.
Can you please explain the molten metal at the world trade center site? Why was there a stand down on the day of 9/11? Did you watch the video that is supposed to show a plane crashing into the pentagon?
Why are you people so hell bent on protecting those who are intent on taking away your civil liberties?
Benjamin Franklin once said "Anyone willing to give up essential liberties for security deserve neither liberty nor security". Why dont you watch the 911 mysteries video so you can see the obvious. Go ahead and google it. Don't you understand that you are putting your faith in mere men, men that are flawed. How the hell can you not want to investigate? Im sure in your minds you think America is better than everyone else, you have this idiotic notion in youre mind that everyone else is evil. Just remember that Hitler had his people believing the same nonsense before he tried to kill the rest of the world. I for one believe in God and I am so happy that he sees and knows all, so even if you people are so blind he still sees the evil that you cannot. If you keep allowing these evil people to control you then you are complicit.
I bet if there is another "attack" you all will be clamoring for nukes to be used. Elections are coming soon can't wait to see what happens, another "catastrophic and catalyzing" event im sure.
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