Uncle Fetzer's Top Ten Reasons Why There Were No Hijackers
Okay, finally got a chance to watch this through. Fetzer's a nut, which explains why a lot of the Truthers are very uncomfortable with his new visibility as the leader of the 9-11 Truth Cult. Here's his David Letterman-style listing of the top ten reasons why there were no terrorists:
10. Their names do not appear on any passenger manifest.
9. None of them were subject to any autopsy.
8. Five to seven at least have turned up alive.
7. The FBI nevertheless has not revised its list.
6. A special agent of the FBI named Flagg has explained that the FBI knew who the hijackers were almost immediately because a piece of luggage was left behind by Mohammed Atta which included a list of all the names.
5. They could not have flown the planes.
4. Cellphone calls could not have been made.
3. During the trial of Zacharias Moussaoui a tape was introduced which reportedly included discusssions between the passengers on using a drink cart as a battering ram, but the Cockpit Voice Recorder could not have overheard that.
2. The last words attributed to the terrorists on the tape, the last words they said was Allah Akhbar.
1. The last reason is not summarizable easily, but basically Fetzer talks about how Moussaoui confessed to being part of a separate attack on the White House that was intended as an extortion attempt (?) to get some terrorist freed, and that what the government tried Moussaoui for was hiding the 9-11 plot, but he's got the right not to incriminate himself... it doesn't make a lot of sense.
Let's take those from the top, shall we?
10. The manifest list question pops up over and over again. The airlines were asked for lists of victims, which they released. Since the hijackers cannot be considered victims they were left off the list. This actually is something that 9-11 survivors, including April Gallop have requested, from journalists as well:
Don't include terrorists with the victims in the death toll. Separate them.
9. I suspect that of all the people killed on 9/11, the only ones subjected to a real autopsy are those who died in the Pentagon, and perhaps a few, like Father Judge, who were killed prior to the towers collapsing. What was mostly done was identification of the limited remains for return to the families. And so there was no specific need to identify the hijackers (although I'm sure the government retained samples of their DNA).
8. This is the ridiculous factoid that the CTers bring up every time. Some of the hijackers had relatively common names in the Middle East, which resulted in some confusion. Once the names and pictures were released these stories died down in the papers.
7. Answered above.
6. I'll have to research the truth of this statement, but let's remember that a group of 19 people would certainly require a list to keep track of.
5. They could not have flown the planes? Nonsense. The most difficult tasks in piloting are takeoffs and landings, and none of these guys needed to do that.
4. The cellphone calls could not have been made. This is one of the more bizarre bits that the CT crowd clings to, no matter how many times we remind them that Airfones were installed in the planes.
3. We've discussed this "made-up" fact about the overheard conversation regarding using the drink cart as a battering ram on Flight 93.
2. The last words attributed to the terrorists on the tape, the last words they said was Allah Akhbar, but they're supposed to say "There is no god but Allah and Mohammed is his prophet." Maybe true, but it's a matter for the terrorists to take up with their imams.
1. I can't even figure out what Fetzer is getting at with this one.
posted by Pat @ 10:30 AM
113 comments
113 Comments:
Like, hey man, you know, those guys I mean the 19 guys, they were just a bunch of sweeties, like, that got a bad rap. Like they were like just on the plane, and everything, when the pods made those planes fly into the Trade Center.
All those other guys, you know, like the ones that just got arrested, I mean they are just like geting smeared.
8. This is the ridiculous factoid that the CTers bring up every time. Some of the hijackers had relatively common names in the Middle East, which resulted in some confusion. Once the names and pictures were released these stories died down in the papers.
Not quite. There is the issue of the FBI using photos of people who are very clearly alive.
CNN broadcast a picture of Saeed Alghamdi (alive and flying airplanes in Tunisia). Waleed Alshehri (pilot) saw his picture on CNN. Salem Alhazmi (alive and working at a petrochemical plant in Yanbou, Saudi Arabia) says his picture is being used by the FBI.
Yet the FBI maintains that the photos and names are 100% correct.
That is impossible. (And indeed, in the weeks after the attacks, the FBI said many of the hijackers used stolen IDs. Now, with no change in the evidence, they say the opposite.)
The upshot is that we have absolutely no idea who the hijackers were.
Shame a fan of the greatest team on the planet is so ignorant.
CNN broadcast a picture of Saeed Alghamdi (alive and flying airplanes in Tunisia). Waleed Alshehri (pilot) saw his picture on CNN. Salem Alhazmi (alive and working at a petrochemical plant in Yanbou, Saudi Arabia) says his picture is being used by the FBI.
Jeez, you use Waleed, the most obvious case of mistaken identity in the entire story.
There we go
The upshot is that we have absolutely no idea who the hijackers were.
In the words of Lex Luthor: WRONG.
hahah you think Huff Post and DU are good sites.
hahahahahahha
You know, I'm trained in all sorts of unarmed combat/CQC, so yeah, I could probably take on a couple guys armed with boxcutters, and do pretty well. But pre-9/11, I would have stayed in my seat too. Why should I place my life on the line, and indanger the lives of others, when there's no immediate danger? It's "heroes" like that who have in the past gotten themselves and other people killed for no reason at all. Put post-9/11? If they're Muslim, I don't care what weapons they claim to have, I'll be out of my seat in 5 seconds flat choking 'em to death with my goddamn shoelaces. 9/11 changed everything.
I challenge any 9/11 debunker to explain away this....
Flight 77's Missing Tail Section
Ah, I get it. They flew a 757 into the building (even the site you link quotes witnesses seing it) but before they flew it into the pentagon, they chopped off it's tail.
Yep, makes sense to me! Clear sign of a government coverup.
Wow Killtown are you really that stupid?
(Anyone see the laugher of a post where he calls CDI and doesn't use any context whatsoever in an attempt to prove his point? Intellectual dishonesty at its finest.)
Also, Killtown, Silverstein didn't work for CDI, now did he?
I like the icon, though, real fitting for a lunatic.
IMO, the best evidence (smoking gun) for no 757 is the approach path, the alleged speed and the ground effect-- no way a 757 could have come in so low at that speed at that angle. It's physically impossible.
From a comment on the site you link.
Unfortunately for him it's not physically impossible. In fact, because of physics, it would be buffered by the air underneath it and be able to fly so low.
Like, hey man, I mean, like the answer to things we can't understand is "no way" and like , I mean sometimes we say , "uhhhh, uh" and when we like really mean it we say, like "Common Sense"
Like, I wish I could figure out where a missle came from, but like my man Jason is working on that, and Korey, like he was in the Army, and I mean, he knows how that stuff works.
Shawn said... Wow Killtown are you really that stupid?
Really stupid about what, a 757's huge tail section that is missing?
Btw, on the CDI post, I didn't call them, Jeff from pumpitup.com called them (can't you read?) and yes, I know Larry "Pull it" Silverstein doesn't work for CDI. What's your point?
Really stupid about what, a 757's huge tail section that is missing?
First off, why does that matter. It's a red herring. There's a plane missing, everyone on that plane is dead, people saw the plane hit the Pentagon.
I know Larry "Pull it" Silverstein doesn't work for CDI. What's your point?
Because you idiots don't put anything into context. Silverstein obviously meant to evacuate the area around WTC 7 and stop fighting the fires. "Pull it" is firefighterese for evacuating.
Oh and how about show a bunch of crashes that are nothing like the Pentagon crash as comparison?
Apathoid, that's obviously all government propaganda.
The part about FBI finding the piece of luggage has been called the "Rosetta Stone." Another one of those unbelievable coincidences that "Mohammed Atta" left luggage in the rental car that had all the hijackers names on papers inside.
I bet Mohammed Atta (no need for scare quotes, child) wasn't too worried about being caught.
actually the proprietors of this blog have written many nice comments encouraging those of us with different opinions to visit and comment.
But when you guys continue to post nonsense and debunked points it really doesn't help.
Pat,
I tend to agree with you that Fetzer's reason #1 doesn't support his point that he claims he's supporting (no Hijackers). And, with that example, you are right, I do not think Fetzer is the best person to "lead the charge" of the 9/11 Truth "community".
If I speculate that Fetzer's "job" is to be a discrediting figure, I imagine many of the commenters here will body slam me for making that speculation. Go ahead and slam me, and know that I'm not taking on some imagined role of sorting between the "honest" GSS'ers and the Cointel Pro ones. I don't how one gets a Phd. in Philosophy will such poor ability to follow the rules of logic in making an argument.
Nevertheless, the fact appears to be that Fetzer was awarded the degree.
Fetzer could have made, separate from providing reasons that there may not have been hijackings, a valid point that Moussaousi was treated in an unprescedented way, in terms of what should qualify a defendant for the death penalty. I suppose, not being a lawyer himself, Fetzer steered clear of that. And, not being a lawyer myself, I should probably not try to debate that point here either, even though I think it's a very important issue separate from other details of 9/11.
In the final analysis, the only thing that could redeem Fetzer's behavior in my eyes, would be the eventuality that he got enough people riled up to demand an opening of a real investigation. However, at times, his rhetoric has been more along the lines of "rough justice", where according to one account David Ray Griffin was looking a little uncomfortable in the background while Fetzer was ranting.
The "Denver Conspiracy" guest on Fetzer's radio show (which was reported on this blog) simply adds another piece of evidence to the pile that Fetzer is not someone that any of us, no matter what our concerns, should want to have representing us.
If I speculate that Fetzer's "job" is to be a discrediting figure, I imagine many of the commenters here will body slam me for making that speculation. Go ahead and slam me, and know that I'm not taking on some imagined role of sorting between the "honest" GSS'ers and the Cointel Pro ones.
There are no COINTELPRO ones. You folks need to stop hiding behind that shield.
Shawn,
I can't prove that anyone here or elsewhere on the internet, or in public discourse is connected with US Intelligence or Military operations (or any other organized disinfo campaign).
I can say I could write a lengthy article describing personalities, events, web discussions, "truth conventions" etc. etc. and cite details that would lead a reasonable person to conclude that were ulterior motives and active manipulation by organized factions which have resulted in weakening the overall cohesion and effectiveness of efforts to get a fair hearing in front of the Ameican people.
If you don't want to call it Cointel Pro, fine.
redsock,
Your comments worry me. You seem to be defending Fetzer, and the claim that the nineteen hijackers who were "fingered" may not be the "right ones".
Does this mean you think that there were hijackings? (My opinion is that the best available evidence points toward no hijackings on 9/11.)
If you don't want to call it Cointel Pro, fine.
COINTELPRO is long gone, but even by what you mean (a disinformation group), you're wrong. You can't keep doing this "oh obviously disinfo agents" when stuff doesn't go your way.
(My opinion is that the best available evidence points toward no hijackings on 9/11.)
Yup, just gotta ignore all the phone calls.
apathoid said..,
"From the eyes of skeptics, all you guys look alike"
There is so much material, apathoid, that there is to review. With the comments you make, I find it hard to believe you have reviewed key items.
For example, Could I ask you to read David Ray Griffin's book: 9/11 Commission: Ommission and Distortions?
I will send you a copy if you email me at biil.giltner at gmail.com. (Sorry I don't have a supply and I'm not rich, so I can't make this offer to anyone else.).
If you don't want to read it, go to amazon and read the reviews.
Also read the reviews (or buy the book) "9/11 Synthetic Terror, Made in the USA", by Webster Tarpley. Even if you find these books unconvincing, it would, I think, give you more info that you currently possess why reasonable people can be GSS'ers.
I was deep into this subject area way before Loose Change came out. As a movie, it's not nearly as bad and Fahrenheit 9/11 in it's manipulation, but I agree we should take it as a video with a point of view, and it takes liberties to advocate that point of view. I wouldn't say to anyone: "this movie proves 9/11 was ... (fill in the blank.)
I'm not one who says the Northwoods document proves anything. The existence of the PNAC and it's documents don't "prove" anything.
I want proof based on forenics, and investigation by untainted actors, who have the the experience and expertise in the areas required. I understand that we don't live in a perfect world and never will. However,there is so many reasons to believe there has been a coverup, it is the moral duty of everyone to demand a real investigation.
I don't enjoy being called a nut. I don't enjoy trading insults. I'm commenting here because of a fundamental belief in our Republic. I believe it is endangered by lies that undermine its foundations.
Might as well correct my email: bill.giltner at gmail.com
Please don't spam or flame me.
apathoid said..
what's so bad about Fetzer.
If you listen to the audio of Fetzer on Alan Colmes radio show, you'll see. It was linked and discussed here. Fetzer was rude to callers, and laughed is a snide way at them. It's not the way to win friends and influent people. He was rude to Colmes.
Also, even when I called in about 9/11 to Fetzer, I was talking about stuff that happened on 9/11, 9/12, WTC collapse explanations and such.
After Fetzer told me what a great call mine was, he went on for 2 or 3 minutes talking about how 9/11 events could be compared to Wellstone's tragic plane crash.
There's nothing inherently wrong with this shift. However, if you are in front of an audience that is going to be skeptical of any claim that there was foul play with Wellstone's crash, the last thing you want to do is related questions about 9/11 with details that the average person is going to find laughably incredible about other subjects.
For examples of GSS'ers who don't act like Fetzer, there are: Hopsicker, Griffin, Steven E. Jones.
By the way, Hopsicker doesn't agree on 1/10 of the probable details of 9/11 with what I believe, but he has done investigation and mainly sticks to what he have looked into in-depth personally.
chf,
Just to be clear about the hijacker story, and my particular skepticism:
My contention is that 19 males with real identities may have been on planes during 9/11. The pure doubt about what happened in whether those individuals labeled hijackers had anything to do with the flight controls of the planes or the crimes scenes where lives were lost.
apathoid asked,
Namely who? Give examples...
The list of authorities that have jurisdiction is, I think:
Local prosecutors, State AG's, US Justice Dept. (including FBI), Military Investigators (Pentagon), Congress.
Any of the above that would initiate any reopenning of investigation activities would have to have political support on some sort. It would be reasonable if a significant number of victim's family members supported futher investigation as well as MSM. With respect to the MSM: as an example, if any of you follow Lou Dobbs on the immigration issue, he is clearly holding the administration's feet to the fire on that issue.
I know that with the current political climate in Wash. , the chances are slim to none of anything positive happenning.
Some had hopes of Elliot Spitzer undertaking an investigation, and have petitioned him. If I were in his shoes, I'd duck too.
apathoid,
By the way, when I complained about being insulted, I was talking about the generic crap.
My complaint wasn't directed at you, but I appreciate the conciliatory tone never the less.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
apathoid,
Your distortions are out of bounds. I hesitate to respond to your outrageous mis-representations with respect to the Pentagon
For example, the 1200 lbs Pentagon thingy pictured.... You are misrepresenting what I said. Furthermore, you are conveniently leaving out that you have absolutely no proof that the object pictured weighed 100 lbs or 1200lbs. There's nothing except an uncredited picture, and that fact that you and others may allege matches to the airplane component of the alleged plane. I looked at the related web site and details. It interesting. In isolation, your case seems plausable. I don't know. I do know you are way over the top with your certainty. It can't be justified unless you have access to information that the rest of us don't.
It's a shame when people overstate the strength of their arguments: it just esculates the disconnect.
I already explained this to bogglehead on the SLC forums and he falls under the ought-is problem.
He always ignores the black gold Saudi Arabia supplies us. Personally, I want the Kingdom eradicated and would've been my first target after Afghanistan.
Okay so let me get this straight.
Saudi Arabia attacks the US.
No, some citizens from S.A. attack the US.
By your standards, Canada should have counterattacked the USA due to Fenian Brotherhood.
The US put up with bullshit and terrorist support by S.A. citizens because trying to force the issue withou any major incidents would have likely made matters much worse. In fact Al Queda was a lovely example of how forcing matters on S.A. made things involving radical Muslims worse.
Post 9-11, it was no longer a mettera of a few bombers here and there and a few attacks on Isreal. It was their children murdering thousands of Americans each.
We put down the screwd pretty hard on Suadi Arabia.
They are no liberal democracy bvy ANy means, bu they've come mighty far. Women there are actuall able to wear jeans. That may not sound like much to you, but it is very radical to the Saudis.
Read the recent article in Smithsonian and realise how far that backwater oil source has come in the past five years. They've done more liberalization than any other Arabian nation in the past 100 years.
Why? because the USA proved to their level of satisfaction that their fuckwit lifestyle had produced 15 assholes who would commit the slaughter of 9-11.
C'mon, tele, don't you know it's all about drugs?
"I challenge any 9/11 debunker to explain away this....Flight 77's Missing Tail Section"
It's amazing how all CTs turn into real airplane crash experts. They almost expect when planes hit the ground, the aircraft's fuselage is tipped down and its tail in the air. Bit like this: http://www.antiquephotos.com/catalog/images/products/bwp3538.jpg
Good review here:
http://www.911review.com/errors/pentagon/crashdebris.html
Shawn said... First off, why does that matter.
Why does that matter??? Because large sections of a plane just don't disappear without a trace.
Because you idiots don't put anything into context. Silverstein obviously meant to evacuate the area around WTC 7 and stop fighting the fires. "Pull it" is firefighterese for evacuating.
1) why would a Fire Chief need permission from a landlord to pull out his/her men/women???
2) why would a Fire Chief ask the landlord to pull it out the firefighters...wait, that doesn't even sound right! Pull "them" out when there were no firefighters to pull "out" when he allegedly recieved that call?
3) "pull it" means "pull it down." Just ask CDI.
apathoid said... First, you explain flight 17's missing tail section
Why? I asked YOU first. It's rude to side-step questions.
Billy said...
It's amazing how all CTs turn into real airplane crash experts.
Good review here:
http://www.911review.com/errors/pentagon/crashdebris.html
Yes, I agree...
"The Pentagon crash pictured holes in the facade large enough to admit into the building the entire aircraft except the outermost wing and tail sections"
So, where did the tail section go? What happened to it?
Why does that matter??? Because large sections of a plane just don't disappear without a trace.
Ok, Killtown, since you didn't get it the first time.
The plane is gone. The passengers are gone. All the witnesses saw the plane (one seeing a small plane). We have the popped out lightpoles (which precludes a missle). We have pictures of debris on the law, the engine and wheels inside the building. A missle or smaller aircraft couldn't have done as much damage as was done.
What you're doing is using a logical fallacy called a red herring. You point out one thing that doesn't really matter.
Why? I asked YOU first. It's rude to side-step questions.
He was pointing out how you showed a bunch of pictures with tail sections, and then he showed you a bunch of pictures of crashes where they disappeared. Your original insinuation with the pictures was that its odd that parts would disintegrate/burn up/what have you.
How you people continually fail to grasp this stuff is beyond me.
1) why would a Fire Chief need permission from a landlord to pull out his/her men/women???
If you think that any skyscraper fire is going to be fought or not fought without discussing things with the owner/landlord, as well as several relevant engineers, plus some departments, then you obviously have no concept of urban real estate.
-Thanks for that! Nice to see your freedom slink every 4th of July. Do you want that? -
Like hey man, I was like going to ask Theo van Gogh that, but I can't see, to reach him.
Do you know where I can find him?
-Why does this film, "screw" only give "some" comments to Loose Change?
Eh?
-Where did U get all the evidence, disprooving the "so called" thruth in Loose Change?
9/11 Comission Report, FEMA report, NIST report, expert analysis and testemony, etc. Basicaly the exact opposite of where the authors of Loose Change got their evidence (which would be guesses, conjecture and analysis by non-experts and lunatics).
-Why not let someone believe?
Beleive whatever you want. I have no problem with you being a delusional fool. But I do have a problem with letting people try and brainwash people into beleiving that the US is an evil empire intent on ruling the world.
Your new version, only is asking more questions.
Like?
-Why are all these questions not awnsered in the 9/11 (warren)Commission?
For the most part, they are. Any of your questions which aren't answered are too silly for them to address. It's not the responsibility of the 9/11 comission to try and explain to you why only lunatics would beleive in the idea that the WTC was a "controlled demolition".
-When people have more questions than awnsers, an investigation should be done over, and over again.
Bullshit. Those investigations weren't done for your beneift, any more than the investigations in a murder trial are done for your benefit. In the case of a murder trial, investigations are done to in order to convince a prosecutor to lay charges. What you, sitting at home, might think of the evidence is irrelevant. Similarily, in the case of 9/11, investigations were conducted in order to generate a report for the federal government, and for various safety and emergency managment agencies of the government, as well as for the national standards council. The purpose of these investigations was to generate an accurate timeline of events, and present the details in such a manner as to allow for the improvement of national security measures (airline security in particular), and building code/engineering standards. The reports certainly weren't intended to convince a bunch of Conspiracy Theory fruitcakes of anything.
-I see the media as my fear. When a story can't be set straight, they deny the story @ the present time in the USA.
You got that right! Except, unfortiunately, European media is 10 times worse. PRAVDA still claims that the moon landing was faked, and The Globe regularily accuses the US of human rights abuses and rarely publishes a retraction when it turns out they were wrong. Todays Mass media in general, regaurdless of nationality, is totaly fucked.
-I hate your politics, creating a worldwide We - They feeling.
See, if you get that feeling, then you're the one causing it. You can't blame someone else for making you feel a certain way. You're the only one responsible for your feelings and emotions.
-Thanks for that! Nice to see your freedom slink every 4th of July. Do you want that?
Eh? Have you BEEN to the US? I go there once a year at least. Loss of freedom my ass. I feel more free there than I do here in Canada.
About 27 minutes into the most recent "Louder than Words" production of a Loose Change Sequel (prepared for the Chicago Conf.) there is an interview/monologue with Fetzer.
I had earlier in this thread speculated about Fetzer and whether his behavior is intended to discredit the 9/11 truth movement.
I tend to think, based on this linked presentation, that Fetzer is more of a loose cannon at times rather than a disinfo agent.
Like hey man, Theo was a civilized man from the 20th century, who met a jealous man with a knife from the 7th Century.
Same with the WTC - it met 10 jealous men from the 7th century, in 2 - 20th century airplanes.
Just ask questions forever, and never listen to the answers.
Why would Flight 77's tail section or any other part have survived when all we can see on the Pentagon videotape, released a couple of weeks ago, is a big ball of fire? A few witnesses even claim they could see the tail sticking out of the building for about one or two seconds before a very heavy explosion engulfed everything in flames.
I'm sorry Dutch-man, but I can't understand most of what you're saying. The only thing I can get out of your blathering is that you blame the US for Theo's death. Which is idiotic. The only people to blame for his death, and for the 9/11 attacks, are the Muslim fanatics who carried out those acts, and the Imaams who preach hatred for non-muslims.
I know you're trying to speak english, but your sentences just aren't making sence. Which isn't surprising - even the CT'ers who live in the US rarely make sense, so it's no wonder that I wouldn't understand someone who's nuts AND has a bit of a language barrier.
It seems the language barrier is getting worse :p
"Why not let someone believe?"
Good point. Call it the 9/11 Believe Movement, for my part, rather than the 9/11 Truth Movement. Because that's what it is. Don't call it 'truth' unless you have undisputed evidence.
While Theo died in the 21st century, he lived the bulk of his life in the 20th.
His killer is from the 7th century, in thinking, acting, and living, no matter what the calendar says.
His killer was invited to live in civilization, with little demanded of him.
Instead he lived like a savage.
But keep asking questions, keep it an open investigation. 19 Sweeties got a bad reputation
Like hey man, you might look at the header post for this blog. The one permanently at the top?
Did you see the sun today?
It's 93 million miles away.
You should check that math though.
And Theo's killer had dual citizenship - born in the Netherlands, and had Moroccan citizenship.
Nothing kept him in the lowlands, nothing but the handouts.
Seems the CTs have found the ultimate weapon against the Truth sceptics by unleashing the Dutch equivalent to Borat (for those not familiar: the satirical Kazakhstani journalist caricature invented and portrayed by British comedian Sacha Baron Cohen). Although I have my doubts about him being a real "Dutchie". The Dutch usually are not this bad at English.
Heh calm down there Borat. Or should I call you Goldmember? Anyway, the more excited you get, the less we understand you. If you have questions or comments, lay them out in a logical sequence, and make sure they're clearly phrased. No special idioms or slang. That's the best way to avoid misunderstandings. If you can do that, I'll do my best to answer any relevant questions you may have. Otherwise, I won't be able to understand you, so I won't bother responding.
In Theo we trusted.
Theo died because of your foreign politics.
How wrong can you people be? Theo died because of a religion that preaches that women are chattel and that anyone who insults or criticizes your religion should be killed on the order of God.
More importantly, it has been claimed that unlike people such as Bin Laden, the Saudi Royals DO have expansionist dreams for Islam,
JP, you're wrong again. Like I've said before it is the goal of Islam to make the world Islamic.
Yes people are FREE here to marry their own sex.
Why are people here free to smoke your (WAR-ON-DRUGS) helldrug grass?
In my state gays can marry. Drugs are retarded, but as a libertarian I wouldn't mind people being able to make themselves retards.
Proove me my friend. Proove is like WMD in this matter. Nowhere to be found again.
This guy's almost as bad as nesnyc. We'll never have enough proof for people like you. We have better than circumstantial evidence, yet you fail to "believe" the 'official' story.
Don't let YOUR freedom look too much like Hitlers' freedom.
And he proves how stupid he is. Ever heard of Goodwin's Law? The first comparison to Hitler or the Nazis loses the argument. (Hitler never claimed to be fighting for freedom by the way, just for the "Aryan race".)
Don't let your ignorance of history get in the way of making an irrelevant post, though.
If all your taxes (?)money, war on drugs, war on terrorism, war on illegal aliens (is that what the word is?) was put into research,
as a whole, the world would now be without diseases, and could be living on Mars.
We shouldn't have taxes. You people have fucking half of your income taken by the government, that's ludicrous. And why shouldn't we fight the people who attacked us on 9/11? Or the people who come to this country illegally and don't pay those taxes you love so much?
True. My bad. I'll behave from here.
Sorry for any inconviniance i caused here.
No, keep posting. It's like having argument with people I went to college with, they were so ignorant of history and politics, tearing them to shreds was fun as hell.
If all your taxes (?)money, war on drugs, war on terrorism, war on illegal aliens (is that what the word is?) was put into research,
as a whole, the world would now be without diseases, and could be living on Mars.
So what you're saying is, it's the responsibility of the US to use it's money to help save the rest of the world. But the US doesn't have any right to intervene militarily or politicaly in the rest of the world.
That's a little...unfair, isn't it?
The US already spends more money helping out other nations than all of Europe put together. Most scientific breakthroughs are made in the US. And which country was it that pioneered space flight, and continues to explore the solar system? It wasn't Kazikstan, that's for sure.
Money, can bring more peace, than any weapon will ever bring.
How, by blackmailing people? You tell me how money is going to convince a bunch of madmen to make peace. Theo was killed for insulting Islam. The artists in Denmark who drew the Mohammed cartoons had a bounty put on their head for DRAWING A FUCKING CARTOON. Money doesn't create peace. Money's just a tool like any other. Like a shovel, or a computer, or a book, or a knife, or a rifle, or a bomb. They're all just tools. What we DO with them is what determines their effect.
As most of your comment, i never said that. READ my friend.
Not worthy to go into this comment anyway.
In your list of things we shouldn't spend taxes on, you said, and I quote "war on terrorism". So that's where my question came from, dumbass.
Can you people from the USW, please not touch my freedom, or change it "for the better"?
What's USW? Some play on George W. Bush's name? If so, it's terrible, try something better.
And you idiot, the countries we attacked were, let's see if you know this word, DICTATORSHIPS. We didn't attack liberal democracies, Einstein.
But I guess you consider sharia or autocratic control "freedom".
Can you people from the USW, please not touch my freedom, or change it "for the better"?
What the fuck's a USW?
And what the fuck have any of us done to "your freedom"?
You're being more of a dick than that Insync idiot.
We like to see soccer. Strange indeed. Is that anywhere live on any mainstream media channel?
ESPN plays some of the games. Not that I care, soccer is a little kids' game in America.
We like to see soccer. Strange indeed. Is that anywhere live on any mainstream media channel?
Is it just me or is this guy a total fucking bigot?
Is it just me or is this guy a total fucking bigot?
Yup, American isn't free because we have laws against pot (doesn't stop practically everyone from age 14 to 30 from smoking it), gays can't marry (oh except in my state), and we don't like soccer (mostly because our colonization wasn't late enough historically).
Oh, and we're really backwards (even though we were the world's first liberal democracy, while the Netherlands was still a monarchy).
Yeah, anyone who doesn't like soccer is a savage! No wonder you're trying to take over the world! George Bush is like Attila, and you're all his Huns. If only you had had the civilizing influence of soccer when you were children, the world would be at peace now!
Israel is going after one person, with allmost all material into Palestina (or what you name it).
Where is "our" superguys to withhold any action against possesing another country?
The Palestinians got Gaza, and have lobbed a thousand rockets in Israel proper since then. They killed two soldiers and kidnapped a third and refused to return him.
Israel is completely morally and legally within its rights to enter Palestine and demand the soldier's return. The Arabs started this cycle of violence, they must end it.
Of course the enlightened European (where Israel is viewed as an aggressive occupying force) wouldn't for one second think of Israel's right to protect its citizens.
READ u fool. No country is alleged to enter another country. Concerning Bosnia, you were sooner to appear.
Palestine isn't a sovereign nation.
Wow this is becoming a thriller.
Yup, people kicking a ball across a field that's far too large for 90 minutes is the height of excitement.
And perhaps you've never heard of alliances (Kuwait) or NATO (any of the European actions). Treaty-bound to act in those instances.
To enter another country and destroy a part of it?
Palestine is not another country. As I stated before, it is not a sovereign nation.
And when the government is complicit in the kidnapping of soldiers, Israel is completely within its rights to enter to get him back (Hamas said he would not be released without hundreds of Palestinian prinsoners being released, which is ridiculous).
Israel has been fighting this conflict for the past thirty years with one hand tied behind their back, no thanks to the UN and "enlightened" Euope.
(Oh and a sizable majority, 82 percent, of Palestinians support he kidnapping of Israelis. They're not so innocent after all.)
"READ u fool. No country is alleged to enter another country. "
What the hell? "Alleged"? Yeah this language thing really sucks.
If you meant "allowed" then you really are an idiot. Israel's got every right to do exactly what it's doing. I'm just surprised at how restrained they've been.
Is still an Israelian company, responsible for recording/administring/take a note, all your phonecalls?
Why you antisemitic swine...
Since we're a capitalist society, we have many companies that take care of telephones, all of which I believe are American.
I never thought I'd see it, but this guy's more bigoted than Nesnyc.
I never thought I'd see it, but this guy's more bigoted than Nesnyc.
Europe allowed 11 million Jews to die, and haven't learned a thing since.
Tell me more about your New World Order.
Will my future children, be able to make the deciscions i make today?
Don't forget, it's not about a few words. It's thoughts reached those crazy dutchies.
There is no New World Order, and if there ever was, it would be the UN (which scares the piss out of me). You'd probably welcome that antisemitic, dictator loving body, though.
Your children will be free to marry the same-sex and smoke pot all they want (unless sharia has taken hold by then).
It's truly scary that most of the world really can't see the real threat. They haven't learned a bloody thing from the last 60 years. Most people are still stuck in the same mindset, where high taxes and a socialist nanny state are a solution to poverty, The US and The Jews controll everything and want to rule the world, Capitalism is evil, and diversity and understanding will ensure nobody ever attacks you. How do you fight that sort of ignorance? It seems we'll have to make all the same mistakes again.
It seems we'll have to make all the same mistakes again.
Yes. If we don't learn from history we are doomed to repeat it. Sucks those of us who know better are stuck along for the ride.
That Killtown site is a joke. He thinks the plane didn't hit the Pentagon.
And your posts still make no sense.
That's rather amusing. This clown talks about "american language laws", which is pure nonsense since the US has unlimited freedom of speach. Meanwhile, he lives in Europe, and the EU has anti-hate-speach laws which can be used to control any unpopular speach. The things he's said on this blog so far could technicaly get him locked up in Europe, but not in America.
Truly amazing how ignorant and delusional some people are.
Your New World Order is a Hoax?
Why would a certain George H. Bush say such a silly thing at 9/11/2000?
I knew one of you idiots would bring this up again. He didn't say "New World Order" he said "new world order" (HUGE difference).
Presidents Mikhail Gorbachev and George H.W. Bush used the term to try and define the nature of the post Cold War era, and the spirit of great power cooperation that they hoped might materialize.
New world order
Talking does not help. Uhu. Weapons do.
Diplomacy is always the first way to do things (it's what we did with Iraq, what we're doing with Iran and the DPRK). But there are those people (I'm thinking of a certain man who ruled Europe in the 40s) who will only answer to the gun.
And, and H.W. Bush made the speech in 1990, not 2000.
We decided to agree on your laws, not to say harmfull words to eachother (you know... racist things, not ANY unpopular speech).
Don't lie about our freedoms.
The suppression of free speech, in any form, isn't a "freedom". Anti-hate speech laws are anti-free speech laws. I hate neo-Nazis, I hate racists, I hate bigots of every form but I will not suppress their right to speak their mind.
I will never be put to jail, because of my so called "unpopular speech". Nice way of turning a story. We in Europe have not depleted all your new freedoms yet. I am just a sucker. A normal European working dude. Luckilly i read and see more than just this blog.
That's why Holocaust deniers are jailed in Europe but can spout their nonsense in America without fear of prison?
HAHAHAHAHAHA We Europeans are laughing. Please remember that.
I bet you were laughing when the crooked crosses goose-stepped through your nation and we came to free you.
But on 11 September. I was partially right.
And? In English we call that a "coincidence".
He said it indeed, without CAPS.
Whatso ever.
Please people... Whole picture. Not the fragments what caused your big mess.
The term "new world order" refers to any chance in the balance of powers. After the Soviet collapse the world moved from a bipolar one, to a unipolar one, ergo a new order.
Why you people can't make the easiest connections to reality is a great mystery.
change*
Crazy American u are.
I'm Canadian you ignorant inbred.
We decided to agree on your laws, not to say harmfull words to eachother (you know... racist things, not ANY unpopular speech).
Don't lie about our freedoms.
Hey retard, the US doesn't HAVE any such laws! How the fuck did you "agree on our laws" WHEN THE US DOESN'T EVEN FUCKING HAVE THEM????
I will never be put to jail, because of my so called "unpopular speech".
Really. Because I remember a certain famous anti-semite who is now in Jail in Austria due to his views.
Luckilly i read and see more than just this blog.
I find it difficult to beleive that you read anything at all.
HAHAHAHAHAHA We Europeans are laughing. Please remember that.
Laugh all you like buddy. Might want to get a copy of your new Criminal Code first though. Here, I'll help you out:
http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,56294,00.html
Now let's see you find an American law which limits speech.
What the hell was that?
Learn proper English grammar and syntax and then repost that.
The only thing I can surmise from each of your posts is you're mocking America, the country that savde your country (and continent) from Nazi tyranny.
And you're under the impression you guys are more free because you have laws that suppress freedom of speech.
saved*
Free association?
Let me try!
Ruch Deater, you make Loose My Screw. I go soccer play ball. Then World Order change and become New. OK, so I take all my freedoms and play in corner. I no go jail to! You make new freedoms!
I saw a little movie with a teacher who said to some of his students a rasist word. In my opinion, some word, on which you can not call to a student from a different race. This movie was Homesecurity made American.
I've never heard of that film before.
You don't seem to understand how freedom of speech works. Our Constitution outlines what the government cannot do. The government cannot punish you for freedom of speech, but your employer can.
When do you think everyone is a perfect American?
Not only Americans speak English. And I never tried to post in Dutch, did I?
Better, just suck my precious off.
Precious? Who are you? Gollum (Lord of the Rings reference)?
If you loose it (another link), you're worth nothing.
Maybe go for a dictionary to get integrated. No. That's un American.
What are you talking about? Another link, what?
I don't have a Dutch dictionary, I'm sorry.
Yeah, ok, I'm done with Borat over here. You seem to have a lot more patience Shawn, so I'll leave him to you :)
Did you watch the video? He wasn't jailed. He was suspended from his job for the use of the slur.
You proved yourself wrong.
Yeah, u to sleep tight, don't let the police bite.
You post a video that proves my point and you act as if I'm wrong? You're an utter moron.
The man wasn't jailed for his slur, employers are allowed to take action against employees who break rules.
The government, however, cannot punish people for use hate speech.
This teacher.
Again, read more, comment with more quality
I WATCHED THE VIDEO YOU IDIOT.
In the video they say he was suspended for ten days from his job. He wasn't jailed for anything he said.
Again, read more, comment with more quality
Irony alert.
Why doesn't Steve Jones, get full government security, when actually is whisleblowing on the subject 9/11 ?
No he isn't. His "science" is so ridiculous that not one structural engineer supports him. Not one.
I only responded to that because the rest of your post made no sense or you were just repeating yourself.
Remove your statue of liberty, placing a same icon, representing people like Killtown and Jones people. Not wanting to overthrow anything. Just want more truth.
Replace it with people who do want the overthrow of our country and have no desire for the truth? Fucking idiot.
Say anything in next comments. They will not resemble IQ of Bush...Google bitches, it's about 80. Is google also a government issue allready. Not to be quoted to?
his IQ isn't 80, he would've flunked out of Yale. Are you ignorant of how IQ thinks, too.
Oh man, the mighty Google! Bow down! Nothing's a government issue you fucking dumbass. You can't just quote random websites and act as if its good information. But coming from a guy who thinks Killtown and Jones are good sources of information, it's not surprising.
Bye bye freedom with u guys.
hahah we're already proved how we have more freedom to speak than you do. Keep laughing, numbskull.
IQ works*
Longest thread ever on SLC, and all thanks to a simpleton.
I gotta stop talking to people like him....
Longest thread ever on SLC, and all thanks to a simpleton.
I gotta stop talking to people like him....
I'd stop feeding him, but it's impossible for me to allow idiocy to go unpwnt.
I really love how some people who have probably never been to America seem to know more about its daily activities than say a citizen of it. Maybe I just keep missing it but I don't see any soul crushing police state around here.
Even a game played all over this world isn't save in the future of Shawn. Can we kill or silence it.
You're using a logical fallacy called argumentum ad populum (appeal to popularity). You're acting as if I'm a weirdo for not liking a sport every else does.
Then you make a fucking idiotic statement. I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH YOU PEOPLE WATCHING/PLAYING SOCCER. It's no skin off my back, moron.
Please worship and obey your new statue of FREEDOM. Or else.
Americans can spout hate speech without fear of jailtime. You cannot. Guess you're more free.
Let our daughters smoke a joint.
All of my friends smoke weed on a regular basis and none of them have ever gotten in trouble with the law. It's kind of odd you think being able to be an idiot (doing drugs) makes you freer.
then you patriot trailerpark trash low lives will ever will see.
There's nothing wrong with being a patriot. And since I'm part of upper middle-class America (thanks mom and dad for working out of poverty to get there), I've never even seen a trailer park. You are a bigot, sir. You don't know America from Mars.
Not generalising, just according to most people i met here.
Most Americans don't live in trailer parks.
But then again. "Can this alien please have his mouth shut".
I don't care what country you come from (one of my friends from work lived through WW2 in the Netherlands), but if you're going to be an idiot I will respond.
Still think bigger than you pitty brains are presenting you thoughts at this moment.
This is hilarious. You've been wrong at every turn, I've proven you wrong at every turn, but you insult my intelligence. Laughable.
Telling lies.
How did I tell lies, you idiot? You're the one that linked a video saying a teacher was jailed for saying "nigga" when he was suspended from work. That doesn't go against freedom of speech, the restrictions are on what the government can do...not private employers.
Being patriot is one thing.
Can you pernounce "Hail Bush" or "Hail new President" ?
Practice is everything.
I DIDN'T VOTE FOR BUSH. Fucking asshole.
You're disgusting. You make a joke of WW2 and the Holocaust by comparing the President to Hitler. You intellectual lightweights need to find a tall building and jump off, the world IQ would jump quite a bit.
Just leave him alone Shawn. You'd have better results arguing with a vegetable. The guy can't even string more than two words together in a logical order, you think he's going to come up with a logical theory about ANYTHING?
How do you explain what happened to WTC 1, 2 and 7?
*sigh*
Let me break it down into steps you'll understand.
Plane hit building.
Plane go boom!
Building fall down.
And then a bunch of idiots got together and decided there was no plane. Must have watched the matrix too many times. "There is no spoon". I guess they all figured if they repeated it enough times, the AI in charge of the Matrix would make it happen. Except you're not Neo. And this isn't the Matrix. And the spoon is definitely there. Dumbass.
And then a bunch of idiots got together and decided there was no plane. Must have watched the matrix too many times. "There is no spoon". I guess they all figured if they repeated it enough times, the AI in charge of the Matrix would make it happen. Except you're not Neo. And this isn't the Matrix. And the spoon is definitely there. Dumbass.
Holy crap, I just spit up my drink laughing so hard!
When did you visit a concentration camp? Or the Anne Frank house. Monuments, with great importance of mankand. See and understand such a crazy war.
If you did, did the bus stop there actually? Or did you just fly over?
Hey, I have been to Dachau, I have been to the Pisarskoye cemetary with 900,000 buried in mass graves. I have seen what sophisticated Europeans do to each other.
I have even been to the cemetary in Potocari. Why are all those people there? Why were 7,000 massacred just a decade ago? Oh wait, it was because the Dutch Army stood by and watched. I had forgotten about that.
I don't know if you mention it, but onetime I burst into flames on the side of a building while falling out of my personal jet (which had just "fell" into the building) and I died. There should have been no way to "really" idenitfy me along with the other 150 or so passengers....BUT....luckily, they found my passport. I guess I had pressed down on the open window of the jet and thrown it out while we were airborn.
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