Friday, September 15, 2006

The Ground Effect Objection Debunked

I'm not sure if we've linked to this article (link fixed, sorry) before, but I didn't find any mention of the term "ground effect" on the blog. The article goes into great detail on what ground effect is and why it doesn't matter.

One of the pilots summarized his experiences by stating, "This whole ground effect argument is ridiculous. People need to realize that crashing a plane into a building as massive as the Pentagon is remarkably easy and takes no skill at all. Landing one on a runway safely even under the best conditions? Now that's the hard part!" While he may have been exaggerating a bit for effect, he does raise a valid point that flying skillfully and safely is much more difficult than flying as recklessly as the terrorists did on September 11.

42 Comments:

At 15 September, 2006 17:59, Blogger Dog Town said...

That link isn't working for me.
Is it the aerospace one?

I have this link
http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/conspiracy/q0274.shtml

 
At 15 September, 2006 19:19, Blogger JoanBasil said...

How would it be "reckless" flying if the pilot intended to hit the building?

 
At 15 September, 2006 19:24, Blogger Dog Town said...

How would it be "reckless" flying if the pilot intended to hit the building?

To the passengers, and plane dumbass! The movements were baaaad!

 
At 15 September, 2006 20:16, Blogger roger_sq said...

I just have one simple question-

Why are you guys wasting your lives attacking people?

 
At 15 September, 2006 20:17, Blogger The Artistic Macrophage said...

He didn't say without intention, but reckless.

Two drivers, driving on a highway from point A to B. Driver A, skilled, goes from A to B at the appropriate speed, in a straight line, and obeys all rules of the road. Driver B, reckless, swirves from lane to lane, speeds, and disregards all the highway signs.

They both get from A to B.

TAM

 
At 15 September, 2006 20:18, Blogger The Artistic Macrophage said...

why are you wasting your life attacking your own government, and the people who work for it?

 
At 15 September, 2006 20:22, Blogger Dog Town said...

Why are you guys wasting your lives attacking people?

Cuz they've earned worse, and this is all we have. For Now!

 
At 15 September, 2006 20:28, Blogger roger_sq said...

why are you wasting your life attacking your own government, and the people who work for it?

That's not an answer, that's an entirely different question.

 
At 15 September, 2006 20:29, Blogger roger_sq said...

Cuz they've earned worse, and this is all we have. For Now!

who is 'they', and what else would you want?

I don't mean to nitpick but it's a pretty vague answer and I'm not sure I understand.

 
At 15 September, 2006 20:41, Blogger shawn said...

Why do anything?

 
At 15 September, 2006 20:59, Blogger mbats said...

joanbasil, if you're trying to say that they were not reckless because of their intent, then I must disagree with you. If you are trying to say that reckless is not a strong enough word to describe their suicidal/homicidal/genocidal behavior, then I can agree.

 
At 15 September, 2006 21:33, Blogger nesNYC said...

Who the fuck is this?

People need to realize that crashing a plane into a building as massive as the Pentagon is remarkably easy and takes no skill at all.

- Navigation beacon
- speed less than 400MPH
- No light poles in the way
- No corkscrew turns to THEN hit the target

Landing one on a runway safely even under the best conditions? Now that's the hard part!"

Well yeah! Both are quite hard but the above translate to aerial acrobatics and not standard flight.

Alex Jones had a few good pieces on his sight for and against ground effects. But regardless, something did hit the Pentagon and that something really shouldn't of have since it was more than an hour AFTER two other planes hit in NYC.

Former Pilot Says 'Jet Blast' Dismissal Doesn't Fly

 
At 15 September, 2006 21:41, Blogger MarkyX said...

nesync, how do you explain the clipped poles, the generator, or the engine parts matching the rolls royce engine used on Flight 77?

 
At 15 September, 2006 21:46, Blogger Dog Town said...

who is 'they', and what else would you want?

CT scum, and gallows pole!
Whatever we do to traitors today is fine, though!

 
At 15 September, 2006 21:46, Blogger nesNYC said...

or the engine parts matching the rolls royce engine used on Flight 77

Hey, that's news to me. Where's your source for the rolls royce engine parts? We have all concluded they were from a smaller aircraft.

Regardless, NO PLANE SHOULD HAVE HIT THE PENTAGON!

 
At 15 September, 2006 21:48, Blogger roger_sq said...

Why do anything?

That's another question. By someone doomed by both heredity and environment to the life of a bureaucrat, I can understand the inability to differentiate a sense of purpose in one's behavior from a sense of uselessness from one's behavior.

But either way there should be an answer, and not a response to a question with a question. Can nobody here answer the question?

 
At 15 September, 2006 21:50, Blogger MarkyX said...

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/conspiracy/q0265.shtml

There is your engine answer.

 
At 15 September, 2006 21:51, Blogger roger_sq said...

CT scum, and gallows pole!
Whatever we do to traitors today is fine, though!


So you would prefer CT'ers be executed en masse and that would be your overall objective?

Thanks for the answer, but to help me along here, how would that improve the country... I mean, how would that be a purposeful endeavor in your opinion? Not sure I follow.

 
At 15 September, 2006 21:52, Blogger Dog Town said...

How the hell do you leave links here?

 
At 15 September, 2006 21:54, Blogger Dog Town said...

So you would prefer CT'ers be executed en masse and that would be your overall objective?

In a sarcastic sense..yes!
But that is what we do here in 1011100011's! Almost as fun!

 
At 15 September, 2006 21:55, Blogger nesNYC said...

How the hell do you leave links here?

HTML.

 
At 15 September, 2006 21:56, Blogger Dog Town said...

Don't knock watching a TRAITOR hang!

 
At 15 September, 2006 22:13, Blogger Dog Town said...

This feels weird, but thanks natziboy, but HTML means nada to me.
I'm fom the selectric generation!

 
At 15 September, 2006 22:24, Blogger apathoid said...

dog town, to leave links just type

< a href=link >link text< /a >

without the spaces before and after the < and >.

 
At 15 September, 2006 23:08, Blogger rocketdoodle said...

roger_sq-

Your question is loaded, first of all. You're presuming that we're wasting our lives. I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't think I'm wasting my life if I come hear to read, and then maybe comment afterward. It only takes up a few minutes of my day, and I think it's worth it if you consider the alternative is to allow a few ill-informed people to run roughshod over what should be an even debate, no matter how ludicrous the opposition's claims are. I refuse to be "educated" by people far less educated than I, and I refuse to allow these people to frighten people who should know better into thinking the wrong thing. If that's wasting my life, then terrific. Consider my life a total waste.

 
At 15 September, 2006 23:17, Blogger The Artistic Macrophage said...

roger:

My question is the same as yours, only worded slightly differently. The people who work for the USG are still people, so in essence my question to you is simply to ask you the exact same question you asked us...

Why do you waste your life attacking people?

TAM

 
At 16 September, 2006 00:18, Blogger Sword of Truth said...

Former Pilot Says 'Jet Blast' Dismissal Doesn't Fly

From the article:

The pilot, who wishes to remain anonymous,

Swing and a miss, Nessie.

 
At 16 September, 2006 00:42, Blogger Sword of Truth said...

So you would prefer CT'ers be executed en masse and that would be your overall objective?

Executed? No... but their existence presents a dilemma.

This casual treason is a disease wich infects the US, Canada, England and other countries still involved in the war effort. The first best example of this is the so called 9-11 "truth" movement.

Just look at what Reichsfuhrer James Fetzer said at a truthseeker gathering.

"Let me tell you, for years, I've been waiting for there to be a military coup to depose these traitors,... There actually was one weekend, where I said to myself, my God, it's going to happen this weekend,and I'm going to wake up and they will have taken these guys off in chains. Listen to me. The degree of perfidy involved here is so great,that in the time of Aeschylus, Sophocles, and Euripides, frenzied mobs would have dragged these men out of their beds in the middleof the night and ripped them to shreds!"
- James H. Fetzer, June 2006

In World War II, the US and Canada rounded up ethnic japanese and herded them in to camps to protect themselves from home grown insurgents. It may have been "pragmatic" but that didn't make it right. But we did it anyway.

Today, in this war, we have people who are openly spouting enemy propaganda (eg. "Osama is innocent, Bush did 9-11"). And they're speaking in public of violently overythrowing an elected government. Yet we don't act against them.

Why are Fetzer and his Al-Queada sycophants running free?

Just exactly what should be done with those who openly avdocate the enemys position in a time of like, like the so-called "truth" movement does, is a very difficult question.

It's one I don't have an answer for.

My point is, that the "truthers" choose to say what they say and do what they do. Unlike the japanese americans and canadians during WW2, who had no choice of what they were born as, these Al-Queada sympathizers are what they are because they want to be.

Despite this, we as a society don't even consider the question of what to do with them. We may be avoiding it at our peril.

 
At 16 September, 2006 03:24, Blogger 911coverup said...

In the book "Culture of fear" by barry glassner it showed that 70 percent of americans initially thought muslims were responsible for the oklahoma city bombing before the true perpetrator was captured.

Osama bin laden was named the prime suspect within 4 hours of the 9/11 attacks.

 
At 16 September, 2006 03:40, Blogger 911coverup said...

Saying "I'm more educated than you are" is pretty idiotic, selfish thing to say. Some people are just more educated in one field while others are more educated in different field. I bet you hold a degree in engineer yet you don't know shit about politics, sociology, psychology, etc, etc

Remember "dictator" hugo chavez's quote, "cooperation, not competition."

 
At 16 September, 2006 04:13, Blogger Cassiopeia said...

911coverup -
I thought OBL was named prime suspect because of the previous attempt by Islamic extremists to detonate bombs in the WTC? Also the the preceding bombings in Kenya and the USS Cole attack.
If you haven't seen this excellent PBS documentary then I'd really recommend it.
No HTML-fu so cut and paste.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/darkside/view/
Watch online. Great interviews with ex-CIA intel officers.

 
At 16 September, 2006 05:12, Blogger MarkyX said...

911coverup, SUSPECT.

It might have to do with the fact that he has stated a Fatwa against the States and that fun activity he did in Africa or the WTC 1993.

You really are dense.

 
At 16 September, 2006 10:00, Blogger shawn said...

Osama bin laden was named the prime suspect within 4 hours of the 9/11 attacks.

And I said it was him about ten minutes after I saw the second plane hit. I even used the word *gasp* "al-Qaeda".

By someone doomed by both heredity and environment to the life of a bureaucrat

I have no bureaucrats in my family. Try again.

 
At 16 September, 2006 10:11, Blogger rocketdoodle said...

911coverup

Fine. Then I'm a selfish idiot. But let me clear something up--I'm not talking about the experts here. I'm talking about people who use words like "PWNED" when they speak of real people who were murdered, saying the rest of us need to be educated. I'm fine, thank you. You would also do well to heed your own advice--to listen to people who are actually educated in RELEVANT fields. A dental engineer is not a structural engineer, 911coverup.

And no, I don't hold a degree in 'engineer'. I never said I did. And I do know 'shit' about politics, psychology, and sociology. I also know a thing or two about critical thinking. You're welcome to my logic textbooks. They've come in very handy.

 
At 16 September, 2006 10:22, Blogger nesNYC said...

And I said it was him about ten minutes after I saw the second plane hit. I even used the word *gasp* "al-Qaeda".

Yeah, that pre-conditioning the mainstream media did on your head worked like a charm. Too bad he was never really charged with 911 in as short of a timeframe as the court of public opinion condemned him as guilty.

 
At 16 September, 2006 10:25, Blogger nesNYC said...

previous attempt by Islamic extremists to detonate bombs in the WTC?

It is a proven fact (via court transcripts) that the '93 "attack" was an FBI "sting" investigation gone awry.

 
At 16 September, 2006 10:55, Blogger shawn said...

Yeah, that pre-conditioning the mainstream media did on your head worked like a charm.

Mainstream media never talked about al-Qaeda (or Osama) till 9/11. You lose again, nesnyc.

Really. How does it feel being wrong, all the damn time?

It is a proven fact (via court transcripts) that the '93 "attack" was an FBI "sting" investigation gone awry.

They had an informant who didn't inform. Nice try stretching the facts though.

 
At 16 September, 2006 11:17, Blogger Safe-Keeper said...

why are you wasting your life attacking your own government
Isn't that what residents of democracies are supposed to do?

It is a proven fact (via court transcripts) that the '93 "attack" was an FBI "sting" investigation gone awry.
Just wondering, does the FBI usually inverstigate things by planting bombs in inhabited skyscrapers, or was it just in this one case?
[/teasing]

 
At 16 September, 2006 11:30, Blogger Lying_Dylan said...

Nice try stretching the facts though.

Nesnyc did this?

SHOCKING!!!!!!!!!!!

 
At 16 September, 2006 11:30, Blogger Lying_Dylan said...

Nice try stretching the facts though.

Nesnyc did this?

SHOCKING!!!!!!!!!!!

 
At 16 September, 2006 11:39, Blogger shawn said...

Isn't that what residents of democracies are supposed to do?

I prefer criticizing the government.

 
At 17 September, 2006 17:08, Blogger Alex said...

Isn't that what residents of democracies are supposed to do?

Hardly. What they're supposed to do is stay vigilant and offer constructive criticism. Acting like a bunch of brainwashed retards is, however, deffinitely not amongst their responsibilities. It just seems to be a popular hobby.

 

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