Tuesday, February 13, 2007

The Urantia Thing--Maybe There's Something To It?

I've always kind of assumed that Les Jamieson's involvement with the Urantia Group was just another symptom; those who believe in one kooky thing will probably believe in another. But I gotta admit, Nico's making some headway with me on this issue.

First of all, let's discuss Urantia.

The exact circumstances of the origin of The Urantia Book are not known. There is no known human author of the book. It is written as if directly presented by numerous celestial beings appointed to the task of providing a new spiritual revelation to humankind.

The documented history is that a person whose identity has remained unknown received the material from celestial intelligences while asleep. The individual, known as the "sleeping subject" or "contact personality", is said to have been kept anonymous in order to prevent undesirable future veneration or reverence for him.

As early as 1911, Dr. William S. Sadler and his wife Dr. Lena Sadler (born Lena Kellogg), both practicing physicians in Chicago, Illinois, became the attending physicians of the sleeping subject after the individual's wife reported that she could not wake him. Over time, the unconscious subject produced communications that seemed to be from entities who claimed to be spiritual beings. Drs. Lena and William Sadler were respected physicians in Chicago and well known in the community. Dr. William Sadler had a reputation as a debunker of paranormal claims and generally is portrayed as not believing in supernatural claims.

A group of Sadler's friends, former patients, and colleagues originally began meeting for intellectual discussions in 1924, but became interested in the strange communications of the sleeping subject when Sadler mentioned the case and read samples at their request. Shortly afterwards, a communication was received that this group would be allowed to devise questions and that answers would be given by the celestial beings through the contact personality.


You can probably guess the rest of it--the sleeping subject proceeded to dictate the answers to life, the universe and everything, and apparently the answer was not anything quite as simple as 42. Of course, the exact manner in which the sleeping subject conveyed these answers raises a few eyebrows:

The Sadlers and others involved, now all deceased, claimed that the papers of the book were physically materialized from 1925 until 1935 in a way that was not understood even by them, with the first three parts being completed in 1934 and the fourth in 1935.


Anyway, Nico has claimed in the past that the original Urantia group was infiltrated by the OSS (the forerunner to today's CIA). I have tended to dismiss these allegations in the past, but check what Les Jamieson himself has to say on the subject:

My point should be clear that even if the early Urantia Movement was infiltrated, it still is irrelevant to the body of knowledge the book contains and has absolutely no reflection on the community of readers.


And check out this email from Les to Tom Foti (best known as Gravy's shadow at Ground Zero every Saturday):

You will not be allowed to undermine the hard work of this organizing that began long before you came along. You will not be allowed to undermine our sacred cause. You will not be allowed to divert our energy any longer, leading us down a futile, even dangerous path. You're out of here, plain and simple. No more presentations.


Weird stuff. I don't agree with Nico's no-planes nonsense, obviously. But he seems to have a good read on the strange goings-on at the NY Denier group.

25 Comments:

At 13 February, 2007 10:21, Blogger FX9 said...

and the romance between the "debunkers" and nico continues.
quite interesting.
who would have thought, ey? :)

 
At 13 February, 2007 10:31, Blogger Manny said...

OK, you lost me. You think Nico might have a point, I got. But I don't know what point.

That there is such a thing as a Urantia cult?

That Les Jamieson is or was affiliated somehow with Urantia or one of its offshoots?
That the OSS "infiltrated" the original Contact Commission which created Urantia?

That the OSS "infiltrated" the subsequent cult(s)?

Or what?

 
At 13 February, 2007 11:13, Blogger Unknown said...

Les Jamieson is Vice President of the Urantia
Book Society of Greater New York.

 
At 13 February, 2007 11:17, Blogger Unknown said...

Excerpt from the above PDF:

Does it take your biscuit (cake)?

My favorite response to the book
came from an envoy sent by the Scottish
parliament to invite the Dalai Lama to
address that body. After reading several
sections, this cheery fellow exclaimed in a
thick Scottish accent, “I thought A Course
in Miracles was a doorstopper! But this
really takes the biscuit!”

 
At 13 February, 2007 11:36, Blogger Alex said...

Yeah, I'm not parsing this post either. What point does he make that you agree with? All that Uranthia and OSS infiltration crap seems a bit woowoo to me.

 
At 13 February, 2007 11:48, Blogger Unknown said...

Alex,

just trying to be sociable and go along with the wise ones at SLC Blog.

By the way, have you heard the news:

Your world, Urantia, is one of many similar inhabited planets which comprise the local universe of Nebadon

Learn more here.

 
At 13 February, 2007 11:54, Blogger Unknown said...

Read what Natalie Pusey says.

 
At 13 February, 2007 12:18, Blogger Unknown said...

Debunking Urantia:

As is clearly demonstrated here, there is something called BG spam HELL.

However, a clearly authoritative web page says:

There is NO hell.

 
At 13 February, 2007 12:21, Blogger Jenny Quarx said...

I was wondering when this would show up. But why does anyone care? And what doe this have to do with LC or 911? It's just a transparent attempt by Nico to smear someone because of their--admittedly odd--beliefs.

But as long as they're not hurting people they can believe whatever they want. First amendment and all that.

Now you want to go after a religion that actually hurts people, go after the Catholic Church.

 
At 13 February, 2007 12:47, Blogger Unknown said...

I'm pretty sure that Pat posts most anything that makes 9/11 Truthers look like kooks. The kookier the better.

 
At 13 February, 2007 13:32, Blogger Pat said...

Dingdingding! We have a winner!

 
At 13 February, 2007 14:48, Blogger rocketdoodle said...

Wait a minute.

William Sadler?

The guy from Die Hard 2?

 
At 14 February, 2007 11:55, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey Colonel Sparks,

i hope i can insult you here.

You are a dumbf*k brainling from the worst and i hope someone is spilling the feces on you from my satire ;

Its not about "beliefs".

Urantia is run by a NSA guy called Neal Waldrop and i posted this into the mailing list of ny911 several times and Les didnt respond to this.

Les is a fraud and now has also symbolically blood on his hand with the cover-up of the autopsy of Dan Wallace!!

Go back to your moronic truthling clan at 911grogger, pray to your Jones/Griffin Cultists and also tell your imposter clan around casseia if they have something to say then with their real names!

9/11 Blogger Watch (02/13)
http://www.911bloglines.com/node/39

 
At 14 February, 2007 13:17, Blogger Unknown said...

Jenny,

I don't claim to know for sure, but I honestly think Nico (and this does seem to be the real Nico) sees himself as being authentic, in the tradition of Existentialists. If I'm right, he is letting out the rage about the hijacking of the movement, in a mode of righteous indignation. If one hasn't been around NYC (which I haven't), I doubt one is able to appreciate the reasonable nature of his outrage.

I know you are perfectly capably of making up you mind. I would lobby you to consider Nico's intentions, which I think are to expose the frauds inside the "truth movement".

On the other hand, Nico may just be making it easy for the SLC Blog to make us look like kooks.

 
At 14 February, 2007 13:43, Blogger Jenny Quarx said...

But Nico, you could always visit my blog--Oh right! Sorry! I disabled comments because of prats like you! Enjoy the seething frustration! :-P

But then you could visit my blogs at 911Blogger--if you hadn't gotten banned for being a...prat!

Anyone else see a pattern? Yeah, this is the real Nico--click on his name and it goes to an unavailable profile. As if he doesn't want all the people he's pissed off to find him...I wonder why...

Bg-seriously, IMHO your take on Nico is WAY in silver lining land. If his intentions were that noble, he wouldn't a) antagonize people pointlessly and b) share info with the oposition openly.

I wonder where the other Nico is? He's nice--strange Pat doesn't want him around.

 
At 14 February, 2007 13:58, Blogger Jenny Quarx said...

Oi, Nico! I forgot! You still owe me for the last two CrossBall episodes you failed to cover on your so-called blog, you stingy wanker!

Get snappy! Exposure, exposure, exposure! Or the next CrossBall might feature YOU!

 
At 14 February, 2007 14:34, Blogger Unknown said...

Ok, Jenny,

From now on, it's Nico the stingy wanker!

By the way, why the British slang? (wanker. Get snappy?)

 
At 14 February, 2007 15:30, Blogger Jenny Quarx said...

Bg--why the Brit slang? Why not?

Its the way I speak. I was born a Yank but, with an English grandfather and dual cultural exposure from a young age, I use a mix of Brit and American slang. Depends on my mood. The Brit gets stronger when I'm stressed--pity the poor utility employees I go off on when I find I'm charged for something I didn't order!

As for "he who must not be named"(as I refer to him at 911Blogger), he's good for a laugh. He's got no one to blame but himself for his imposter problems. If everyone forgets, HE played an imposter first--putting up that 911BloggerSS rubbish in dz's name. And now he's whining someone decided to pay him back in kind.

Cry me a bloody river. He has zero, zip, nada, de rien reason for complaint. At least HIS imposter is trying to make him look like a decent person--it's absolutely hi-larious that he finds this objectionable. Reminds me a bit of "The Yes Men", actually...

 
At 14 February, 2007 23:10, Anonymous Anonymous said...

zzzz to JennySparks...

i am authentic coz i dont like CultHuggers like you...

I am the party man and JonesCo ruined it coz they work for LosAlamos.

The word "prat" is an Insult to me.
Truthlings are in reality not Dorks but "Borings".

Flagwavers at least more authentic coz they like games and fun but truthlings are bookburners and too illiterate for xBox and cant think for themselves at all ;

Oh yeah and 9/11 truthlings are so dumb that they allow "TheHitlers" like Hufschmid and co. into their camp ;

Maybe eric williams was hufschmids best mole ever, you morons..

You don't even get a kindergarten party organized coz all still live in Mommy's house ; )

Or GreenParty/ClubofRome loosers or whatever you are , you will be the softLefties for ever...

You dont even have a damn clue how much Russia and China was in on 9/11...

Get lost ;

 
At 14 February, 2007 23:21, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I consider BG now as a reasonable talker and thinker.

I hope he's somehow between PaleoCon or Constitutionalist Hugger ;

If i had the choice to pick between TruthOrwellians or PaleoCons, yes the latter.

I hope they also realize how James Baker/Goldman Sachs sold the USA out for China...

Remember China was todays topic on Colbert Report. That means something...

Truthlings are anti-US constitutionalists.. With them you get WW4/5 faster ....or call them retards like SouthPark did..

Completely ashramized. Or Hippies or whatever you call them. Just not "real" or authentic ...

 
At 14 February, 2007 23:38, Anonymous Anonymous said...

HE played an imposter first--putting up that 911BloggerSS rubbish in dz's name.<<<

You don't even realize a satire??

What do you think it was?

*Really* written by dz?
You're dumber than a closet bowl.
If this wasn't nicohaupt style then i dunno ;)

The only mistake i made i brought that stuff to this ny911 cult church at stmarks coz i still had some hope with some of the audience, but they're meanwhile completely UrantiaLized or LaRouchinized...

Dan Wallace died only one week later on monday, when Jamieson cancelled the event for unexplained reasons on sunday.

Why wasn't there an autopsy?

 
At 15 February, 2007 22:45, Blogger Jenny Quarx said...

HE played an imposter first--putting up that 911BloggerSS rubbish in dz's name.<<<

You don't even realize a satire??


One could say the same about you, "mate"--re: your imposter.

So my point stands--you want to mock people, don't whine when they mock you back--prat.

Oh and most people who claim to be as sensitive about the Holocaust as you pretend to be DO NOT use swastikas or Nazi symbolism gratuitously JUST because you have a diffence of opinion with someone. You're not getting out of this by saying "it was only a joke"--prat.

Anything else--prat?

 
At 20 February, 2007 21:45, Blogger Ningen said...

Jenny Sparks said:

"If [Nico's] intentions were that noble, he wouldn't a) antagonize people pointlessly and b) share info with the opposition openly."

I don't see pointless antagonism as necessarily ignoble. I also don't see Nico's antagonism as pointless.

Isn't it just that you disagree with his points?

I don't get all of Nico's points, but I get some and agree and think his way of addressing these points is a fine way, though not the only way. Seeing him on video was kind of a let down, though, because the incident was so innocuous.

I don't see this blog as "the opposition."

 
At 20 February, 2007 21:47, Blogger Ningen said...

And if this is the "opposition," isn't it better to share information openly rather than covertly?

 
At 02 April, 2007 16:59, Anonymous Anonymous said...

for some background see
http://www.911researchers.com/node/299

 

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