Saturday, February 20, 2010

The Quiet Juggernaut

AE911Truth held their series of 47 press conferences yesterday, but apparently the press failed to show up. From searching Google news it appears they actually managed to make it into 1 actual newspaper, thus giving them a less then impressive ratio of .02 members of the press per event.

Gage promised the announcement of some new breakthrough for the troof on Kevin Barrett's radio show last week, but it must not be too exciting as there is not a word of this on their website, nor any other that I can find. I haven't seen any video of the event, but the biggest news, as far as the nutters on 911 Blogger are reporting it is that Steven Jones is now into researching "man made earthquakes" and "weather modification", which should come as no surprise as he announced his interest in chemtrails last year. Good thing they have serious science on their side.

109 Comments:

At 20 February, 2010 08:25, Blogger Lazarus Long said...

"Steven Jones is now into researching "man made earthquakes" and "weather modification", which should come as no surprise as he announced his interest in chemtrails last year."


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA!!!!!!

"Man made Earthquakes"??????

Chemtrals??????????????

Oh, sweet jeebus on a popgo stick what a bunch of lunatics.

What next, Lee Harvey Oswald was part of a conspiracy?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA!!!!!!

Truthers really gotta stop snorting Drano.

 
At 20 February, 2010 09:15, Blogger Just Cause Just Facts said...

Delusion isn't a crime, treason is.

Delusion is an incurable mental defect. Their delusional minds can't focus on the evidence of 9/11. They are off on the Steven Jones weirdos. They can't even grasp that their own nonsense is a conspiracy.

This is a complete waste of time.

 
At 20 February, 2010 09:26, Blogger Boris Epstein said...

The mainstream media are doing the best they can to stop the alternative interpretations of 9/11 from spreading. Coverup is one of the main tools in their arsenal, and they do use it. Not exactly the news - they have been doing it for some years now.

 
At 20 February, 2010 09:34, Anonymous ConsDemo said...

The mainstream media are doing the best they can to stop the alternative interpretations of 9/11 from spreading

Yeah, Bore-ass, are they baracading the asylum so you can't get out? Btw, I'm still waiting for your proof large numbers of people now endorse da twoof.

I like Congressmen Lance's response to the twoofers. He's no Debra Medina.

 
At 20 February, 2010 09:37, Blogger angrysoba said...

Delusion is an incurable mental defect.

It certainly appears that way.

 
At 20 February, 2010 09:42, Blogger angrysoba said...

The mainstream media are doing the best they can to stop the alternative interpretations of 9/11 from spreading. Coverup is one of the main tools in their arsenal, and they do use it.

Absolutely! And the most devious part of their plan was getting North Korean media to propagate their lies!

 
At 20 February, 2010 09:52, Blogger Lazarus Long said...

" Boris Epstein said...
The mainstream media are doing the best they can to stop the alternative interpretations of 9/11 from spreading."

Sorry, bore-ass.

The truth (HA! GET IT?) is that sane people don't give a flying fuck about your brain dead conspiracy natterings.

 
At 20 February, 2010 10:09, Anonymous Roid Rage said...

The truth (HA! GET IT?) is that sane people don't give a flying fuck about your brain dead conspiracy natterings.

Especially incoherent global climate change conspiracy ramblings! LOL!! Ha ha ha such a hypocrite. Post your little list again! ROFL!

<3 Dorothy

 
At 20 February, 2010 10:48, Blogger Lazarus Long said...

Ok, child:

Ok, looks like I have to give raging pantload another cockslapping:

http://wattsupwiththat.com/

http://bishophill.squarespace.com/

http://www.climate-skeptic.com/

http://climateaudit.org/

http://www.climategate.com/

http://www.thegwpf.org/

http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/

http://www.icecap.us/

http://rogerpielkejr.blogspot.com/

Go, read, make your own mind up if AGW is a dead issue or not.

So, child, can you give a hint of a clue of a whiff of a scintilla of a glimmering of proof that AGW exists?

Not that I actually think that you'll. you know, go and read something with an open mind

 
At 20 February, 2010 10:48, Anonymous Dylan Unsavery said...

Oh yes indeed, Mr Jones! Where's my copy and paster? Here it is


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA!!!!!!

"Man made Earthquakes"??????

Chemtrals??????????????

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA!!!!!!

Will photoshopping an earthquake picture be problematic for ol' Jonesy?


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA!!!!!!



One for the road

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA!!!!!!

 
At 20 February, 2010 11:10, Blogger Pat said...

And Jon Gold proclaims that he's not going to promote controlled demolition any more. Except for at his aptly-named "Treason In America" conference in two weeks, where Richard Gage is the top-billed speaker.

 
At 20 February, 2010 11:29, Blogger Puddingknife said...

Pat,

FTR, the conference is being hosted by Betsy Orr Metz. Jon Gold is the MC.
Having Richard Gage speak was not his choice.

 
At 20 February, 2010 11:54, Anonymous New Yorker said...

Delusion isn't a crime, treason is.

True, but nobody is accusing Steven Jones of treason. We just think he's a crazy old man.

Barrett, though, definitely toes the treason line.

The mainstream media are doing the best they can to stop the alternative interpretations of 9/11 from spreading.

Right, just as they stop "alternative" interpretations of the theory of gravity from spreading. It's not the media's job to air the ideas of every lunatic screaming on a street corner.

Coverup is one of the main tools in their arsenal, and they do use it. Not exactly the news - they have been doing it for some years now.

How many times do I have to explain this to thick headed megalomaniacs like you and Brian Good? They're not covering anything up. They're ignoring you because you've got nothing relevant to contribute to the issue of 9/11.

 
At 20 February, 2010 12:34, Anonymous Anonymous said...

They're certainly covering up. They didn't explain the molten iron, they didn't explain the pulverization, they didn't explain the collapse essentially in free fall, they didn't explain the sulfidation attack on the Appendix C steel.

 
At 20 February, 2010 13:35, Anonymous Anonymous said...

They should definitely push for an investigation into HAARP and man-made earthquakes. This is a serious issue.

 
At 20 February, 2010 13:55, Anonymous GuitarBill said...

Anonymous scribbles, "...They're certainly covering up. They didn't explain the molten iron, they didn't explain the pulverization, they didn't explain the collapse essentially in free fall, they didn't explain the sulfidation attack on the Appendix C steel."

This is another pack of "truther" straw man fallacies.

For example, there was no "molten iron". Of course, the conspiranoids conveniently fail to mention that aluminum was abundant at ground zero owing to its use in the WTC facade, the two 767s, and hundreds of vehicles in the WTC's underground parking lot. Aluminum melts at between 800 degrees F and 1184 degrees F--depending on the composition of the alloy.

In the case of WTC 1 and 2, underground fires burned for weeks at temperatures approaching 1700 degrees F--which is more than hot enough to account for POOLS OF MOLTEN ALUMINUM, not steel, which melts at a much higher temperature (~2750 degrees F).

Source: USGS Thermal Data Analysis of Ground Zero.

The remainder of your questions are straw men as well, because the NIST Report wasn't concerned with "pulverization" (which didn't occur, no matter how vociferously you lie to the contrary), alleged "free fall" or the fanciful "sulfidation attack on the Appendix C steel".

The goal of the NIST Report, Einstein, was to explain what took place on the fateful day up to the point of collapse (the collapse mechanism).

That said, the NIST Report was not written to address the idiotic questions, speculation and opinions of the self-styled "9/11 truth movement".

 
At 20 February, 2010 14:11, Anonymous KDLarsen said...

@Lazarus Long
Listing the equivalent of AE911twoof, Clowns' Investigation Team, Not-really-pilots for 9/11 Twoof, etc. as argument against AGW?

In that case, I shall link to the equivalent of 911myths:
http://www.realclimate.org/

 
At 20 February, 2010 14:20, Blogger Lazarus Long said...

" Roid Rage said...
"He was on the sidelines cheering the fascists on.

Nice pom-poms by the way."

PWWWFFFFRRRT!!

This is me taking a big, smelly, damn near toxic dump on your son's military service again, neo-fascist."


Bears repeating.

Just to expose to the world what a child you truly are.

 
At 20 February, 2010 14:28, Anonymous Anonymous said...

With respect, Lazarus, that list of sites has about the same credence in genuine scientific circles as JONES and AE911Twoof have to real engineers. The fact that the peer-reviewed literature is stacked in favour of AGW and virtually all relevant learned societies the world over have acknowledged it should maybe tell you something. While you can argue the toss about the actual risks posed, the core science of AGW has been sound for decades and none of the sites you linked go anywhere towards disproving it.

Mark my words; the world won't be cooling down any time soon and AGW denial will ultimately go the way of 9/11 denial. The similarities are already there; people imploring the masses to "make their own minds up", quote-mining scientists and officials, taking the scattergun approach to FOI requests, claiming THEY are holding data back, systematically ignoring all evidence to the contrary, latching onto trivial errors as a means to discredit publications, taking small procedural irregularities as evidence of a systematic cover-up, and so on. But if you want to be left as a sad individual like Boris who doggedly clings onto his own alternative version of reality, it's your prerogative.

 
At 20 February, 2010 14:28, Blogger Lazarus Long said...

"KDLarsen said...
@Lazarus Long
Listing the equivalent of AE911twoof, Clowns' Investigation Team, Not-really-pilots for 9/11 Twoof, etc. as argument against AGW?"

Well, no, they aren't the "equivelent".

They are serious sites, being run by serious people, puncturing holes in the claims of the people like CRU and the IPCC.

What's funny is the one site you mention, realclimate, is the defender of the warmist orthodoxy.

Like I said, go read some of the sites listed and see what you think.

 
At 20 February, 2010 14:44, Blogger Lazarus Long said...

"Anonymous said...
With respect, Lazarus, that list of sites has about the same credence in genuine scientific circles as JONES and AE911Twoof have to real engineers."

Then how do they keep sinking the hysterical AGW theories?

 
At 20 February, 2010 14:48, Anonymous Anonymous said...

troy arrested again http://www.wvgazette.com/News/201002190626

 
At 20 February, 2010 14:52, Blogger Just Cause Just Facts said...

"It's not the media's job to air the ideas of every lunatic screaming on a street corner."

The obvious evidence that proves the 9/11 inside job was covered up by the media on 9/12. Your desire to protect the real perpetrators is the act of a traitor. You refuse to focus on the evidence. That proves your intention to be a traitor.

The only person capable of ordering an expert team to rig explosives is a psychopathic sadist who did it to start 2 wars.

None of this 9/11 issue has anything to do with weather or any other tangents you use to ignore 9/11. Gage isn't perfect but he is an expert on architecture. Gage fails to understand the real criminal justice system that is controlled by Bush and now Obama who is protecting Bush.

One of these days we are going to get justice on this crime. Your efforts to prevent justice is an act of ignorance and treason.

 
At 20 February, 2010 14:53, Blogger Lazarus Long said...

"I regard consensus science as an extremely pernicious development that ought to be stopped cold in its tracks. Historically, the claim of consensus has been the first refuge of scoundrels; it is a way to avoid debate by claiming that the matter is already settled. Whenever you hear the consensus of scientists agrees on something or other, reach for your wallet, because you're being had.
Let’s be clear: the work of science has nothing whatever to do with consensus. Consensus is the business of politics. Science, on the contrary, requires only one investigator who happens to be right, which means that he or she has results that are verifiable by reference to the real world. In science consensus is irrelevant. What is relevant is reproducible results. The greatest scientists in history are great precisely because they broke with the consensus.
There is no such thing as consensus science. If it's consensus, it isn't science. If it's science, it isn't consensus. Period."

-Michael Crichton

[disclaimer: twooooferism is NOT science in any way shape or form. It's a form of paranoid conspiracy mongering, with no anchor in reality]

 
At 20 February, 2010 14:55, Blogger Lazarus Long said...

I know I always sit up and pay attention to the blatherings of someone who doesn't know the difference between "wether" and "weather".

 
At 20 February, 2010 15:02, Blogger Just Cause Just Facts said...

"alternative interpretations of 9/11"

I'm using evidence that prove the crime. Alternative interpretations of 9/11 are by people who are confused. At least they aren't traitors.

If you can't see the explosion in the picture its because you don't want to see it.

 
At 20 February, 2010 15:06, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Then how do they keep sinking the hysterical AGW theories?

They don't. They've gone no further towards sinking AGW than the twoofers have gone to proving the inside jobby job. But they keep saying they have, and there are plenty of gullible people out there more than willing to take their word for it.

Ask yourself this - given that the jokers making those websites have been claiming to have 'disproved' AGW for a long, long, time (some of them have been at it for decades), why hasn't the killer AGW-debunking paper ever stood up in the peer-reviewed literature? Why, in spite of all these crusading blog sites, does the proverbial tower of cards remain standing? (and believe me, it's not falling any time soon) Are you, like the twoofers, going to invoke some fantastical claim about mainstream science being biased and/or ruled the eevil government?

 
At 20 February, 2010 15:09, Anonymous Anonymous said...

If you can see the explosion in the picture its because you want to see it.

There you go, fixed it for you.

 
At 20 February, 2010 15:38, Anonymous paul w said...

"One of these days we are going to get justice on this crime. Your efforts to prevent justice is an act of ignorance and treason."
Just Cause Just Facts


No, you will not.

You will continue to foam at the mouth, ranting about conspiracies while everyone else ignores you and gets on with their lives.

Mighty tough reality for someone who wants to install a violent dictatorship, but that's okay by me.

Seek professional help.

 
At 20 February, 2010 15:42, Blogger Lazarus Long said...

"Ask yourself this - given that the jokers"

Serious people pointing out the holes in the AGW theory".

"making those websites have been claiming to have 'disproved' AGW for a long, long, time (some of them have been at it for decades), why hasn't the killer AGW-debunking paper ever stood up in the peer-reviewed literature?"

Because the warmist wouldn't allowing contavening views to be published? Check out their own words in the climategate e-mails.

"Why, in spite of all these crusading blog sites, does the proverbial tower of cards remain standing? (and believe me, it's not falling any time soon)"

Because a multi-billion dollar industry will have is defenders, even one built on a fraud.

"Are you, like the twoofers, going to invoke some fantastical claim about mainstream science being biased and/or ruled the eevil government?"

Biased? Damn straight.

Ruled by the EEEvil government?

Ruled by the almighty dollar is more like it. Where else is all that grant money going to come from? Al Gore?

 
At 20 February, 2010 16:04, Blogger Triterope said...

The mainstream media are doing the best they can to stop the alternative interpretations of 9/11 from spreading. Coverup is one of the main tools in their arsenal.

This stupid shit again? Sigh... allright:

The "mainstream media" consists of thousands of individual newspapers, radio stations, and TV stations. They are staffed by tens of thousands of people from all over the demographic, social, and ideological spectrums, and have an endless variety of worldviews. It is also a tremendous challenge to put together an entire broadsheet or broadcast full of newsworthy items every day.

The idea that the "mainstream media" somehow gets together and decides what stories they're going to suppress is too stupid for words. Which, of course, is why Boris Epstein believes it.

And even if they could, there's this newfangled thing called "the Internet" which old media wields no control over, and which more and more people are getting their news from. Maybe you've heard of it?

 
At 20 February, 2010 16:30, Anonymous Anonymous said...

OK Lazarus, glad we cleared that one up. I suggest you take a long look in the mirror the next time you have a go at the twoofers because you're really not all that different.

 
At 20 February, 2010 17:03, Anonymous KDLarsen said...

"Because the warmist wouldn't allowing contavening views to be published? Check out their own words in the climategate e-mails."

You mean the very contravening views that WERE published? And subsequently lead to the majority of the board of editors resigning, over the shabby science?

Incidently, where have we seen THAT before?

Climategate is the equivalent of the Harrit et al "therm*te" paper, a storm in a tea spoon, due to way people are interpreting them.

 
At 20 February, 2010 18:23, Anonymous Marc said...

As a geology major, I would love to see the paperwork on "Man-Made Earthquakes". Mostly because the best minds in Seismology and Geology haven't been able to unlock the specifics of plate-movement to that special point where we can predict them in real-time. We would need to know that little tidbit FIRST before we could initiate one artificially.

The Brit's had a seismic bomb in WWII, but it's use would be obvious and it's effects are localized. Our most powerful nukes could only manage a 3+. Then there was the tell-tale crater.

So unless Harry Potter is involved I don't see how such a thing is possible.

As for Climate Change, it's happening. It has been happening since the end of the last big Ice Age, the Earth does that kind of thing. I'm not saying that people shouldn't be thinking about energy use, and doing things cleaner because you end up saving good money. I'm just not getting my panties in a wad about it.

 
At 20 February, 2010 18:24, Blogger Lazarus Long said...

"Anonymous said...
OK Lazarus, glad we cleared that one up. I suggest you take a long look in the mirror the next time you have a go at the twoofers because you're really not all that different."

Then you're a moron.

I said. go. look, make your own mind up.

See?

It's real easy.

"You mean the very contravening views that WERE published?"

Where?

"And subsequently lead to the majority of the board of editors resigning, over the shabby science?"

When?

"Climategate is the equivalent of the Harrit et al "therm*te" paper, a storm in a tea spoon, due to way people are interpreting them."

Except that Harrit et al (who) didn't include tape recordings of th eplotters, did it?

Go read the CRU e-mails, and tell me that it's not a smoking gun of fraud and malfeasance.

 
At 20 February, 2010 18:26, Blogger Lazarus Long said...

"As for Climate Change, it's happening. It has been happening since the end of the last big Ice Age, the Earth does that kind of thing. I'm not saying that people shouldn't be thinking about energy use, and doing things cleaner because you end up saving good money. I'm just not getting my panties in a wad about it."

Perfectly stated.

The Earth is not in a stasis, like the warmists would have you believe.

 
At 20 February, 2010 18:35, Anonymous KDLarsen said...

I may have mixed up two of the regular CRU email conspiracies, for which I apologize.

"Where?"
For starters various dodgy science was published in Climate Research, which in turn was cited by the WG1 report of the 4th IPCC report. Regardless of what Phil Jones et al may have discussed, the system in place for contributing to the IPCC report didn't really allow for contrary views to be excluded.

"When"
Half the editors of Climate Research resigned after a paper by Soon and Baliunas was accepted and published. The paper had some glaring faults, which called into the question the quality of the peer review. Hans von Storch, the chief editor of the Climate Research publication, sought to make changes to the peer review process, in order to prevent bad science getting through by means of sloppy editors.

Incidently, a bit like the Therm*te paper that was apparently reviewed by twoofers.

 
At 20 February, 2010 18:37, Anonymous KDLarsen said...

Was a bit too fast there..

"Hans von Storch, the chief editor of the Climate Research publication, sought to make changes to the peer review process, in order to prevent bad science getting through by means of sloppy editors."

.. forgot to add: When he found that some of the editors were not interested in this, he resigned.

 
At 20 February, 2010 19:10, Anonymous New Yorker said...

The obvious evidence that proves the 9/11 inside job was covered up by the media on 9/12. Your desire to protect the real perpetrators is the act of a traitor. You refuse to focus on the evidence. That proves your intention to be a traitor.

Yes, the "obvious" evidence. Can you provide some of that? In my traitorous haste, I must've missed some things in the past 8+ years.

The only person capable of ordering an expert team to rig explosives is a psychopathic sadist who did it to start 2 wars.

Hans Gruber?

Gage isn't perfect but he is an expert on architecture.

False.

Gage fails to understand the real criminal justice system that is controlled by Bush and now Obama who is protecting Bush.

Gage fails to understand a lot of things, like the laws of physics.

And while there are things that should be investigated about the Bush administration, blowing up the WTC towers ain't one of them.

One of these days we are going to get justice on this crime.

Yeah. KSM should face justice soon, but I wouldn't hold by breath about bin Laden or Zawahiri. They're unlikely to allow themselves to be taken alive.

Your efforts to prevent justice is an act of ignorance and treason.

Please see a psychiatrist.

I'm using evidence that prove the crime.

Yes, there is evidence that al Qaeda had 19 of its agents hijack four planes and fly three of them into targets. There sure was a crime committed.

Alternative interpretations of 9/11 are by people who are confused.

Yup. Just read the gibberish posted by Roid Rage, Brian Good, Boris Epstein, etc.

If you can't see the explosion in the picture its because you don't want to see it.

Well, I saw the explosions when the planes hit the towers....

Is this like where some Christian nutcase tells me about how the Virgin Mary appeared in a can of tomato sauce, and how I can't see it because I don't want to?

 
At 20 February, 2010 19:12, Anonymous New Yorker said...

They're certainly covering up. They didn't explain the molten iron, they didn't explain the pulverization, they didn't explain the collapse essentially in free fall, they didn't explain the sulfidation attack on the Appendix C steel.

Stop lying, Petgoat.

 
At 20 February, 2010 20:47, Anonymous NoIdentity said...

One of these days we are going to get justice on this crime. Your efforts to prevent justice is an act of ignorance and treason.
Whatever keeps you going buddy!
"One day The Messiah will return and free us"
"One day The Revolution will come and free us"
"One day The Mothership will return and free us"

I'd bet on the last one happening before the first two. I almost feel sorry for people waiting for a messiah. Almost.

 
At 20 February, 2010 21:38, Blogger angrysoba said...

Is this like where some Christian nutcase tells me about how the Virgin Mary appeared in a can of tomato sauce, and how I can't see it because I don't want to?

I don't believe it because it conflicts with the koranic script written in my tomato.

Now, you must admit that that is real!

 
At 20 February, 2010 22:19, Anonymous Anonymous said...

the weather patterns just happen to be decimating venezuela. hmmmm.
but only CRAZY people think weather mod is possible right?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/feb/21/hugo-chavez-el-nino-venezuela

 
At 20 February, 2010 22:21, Anonymous Anonymous said...

A suspicious soul could ask whether El Niño, a Pacific weather system that influences climate worldwide, is on Washington's payroll. Monsanto and Dow Chemical are enjoying booming pesticide and fungicide sales in Argentina as farmers battle to save soy harvests. But in the US Midwest, farmers expect record corn and soy crops.

 
At 20 February, 2010 22:27, Anonymous New Yorker said...

the weather patterns just happen to be decimating venezuela. hmmmm.
but only CRAZY people think weather mod is possible right?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/feb/21/hugo-chavez-el-nino-venezuela


Yes, only crazy people think weather modification is possible, especially since El Nino is doing what it has been doing since well before recorded history. There's evidence that a "Mega Nino" event may have caused the disappearance of the Tiwanaku civilization in the central Andes about 1000 AD.

Needless to say, it was the CIA that wanted Tiwanaku gone and HAARP was responsible for the event.

 
At 21 February, 2010 00:35, Anonymous Patrick from Cincinnati said...

I'm going to stop writing "OT, but ..." I could type the phone book and it would be more relevant than what the nut jobs tap out here.

Dave Cullen (who wrote an incredible book about Columbine) wrote an excellent piece on Joe Stack. Much of it will sound familiar.

http://www.slate.com/id/2245337/

 
At 21 February, 2010 04:20, Blogger angrysoba said...

Dave Cullen (who wrote an incredible book about Columbine) wrote an excellent piece on Joe Stack. Much of it will sound familiar.


Very good piece. Although maybe I think that because much of that is what I noticed in Joe Stack's weird ramblings.

Hey! But he gets a lot of sympathy from Craig Murray's readers.

 
At 21 February, 2010 04:32, Anonymous ConsDemo said...

the weather patterns just happen to be decimating venezuela. hmmmm.
but only CRAZY people think weather mod is possible right?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/feb/21/hugo-chavez-el-nino-venezuela


Yes, weather pattern changes aren't that new, not that that would ever occur to a conspiratoid. In any case, most Venezuelans don't seem to be peddling your ridiculous conspiracy theories. That crackpottery seems to be a bridge too far even for foul demagogue Chavez. But gosh, what if it was, can we expect an flood in Iran around their nuclear facilities tomorrow????

A good many think the problem is the Chavez government failed to invest in electricity infrastructure. Chavez blames the previous government.

Btw, the Guardian article has it wrong when it says "...state oil company Edelca..." Edelca is a state electrical company. PDVSA is the state oil company.

 
At 21 February, 2010 07:48, Blogger Just Cause Just Facts said...

The USA -- United States of Assholes,
United Suckers of America

You will continue to foam at the mouth, ranting about conspiracies while everyone else ignores you and gets on with their lives.

This is the way the assholes ignore me.

Look at the explosion, asshole.

 
At 21 February, 2010 08:04, Anonymous New Yorker said...

Yes, weather pattern changes aren't that new, not that that would ever occur to a conspiratoid.

I know I should have stopped being astounded by the mind-boggling stupidity and ignorance of the "truthers" long ago, but I confess to being astounded by the "anonymous" posts above. El Niño comes along and does what it does every single time, namely, bringing drought to much of Central and South America and abundant precipitation to other areas (witness the record snowfall in Washington, DC this winter) and the moron thinks it's something suspicious.

No, it would be suspicious if El Niño showed up, and Venezuela (among other places) continued to get rain.

 
At 21 February, 2010 08:07, Anonymous New Yorker said...

The USA -- United States of Assholes,
United Suckers of America


Is this some of that "obvious evidence" I asked you for?

You will continue to foam at the mouth, ranting about conspiracies while everyone else ignores you and gets on with their lives.

True. Boris Epstein will never give this up, and the rest of us will just check in from time to time to laugh at him. The "truth" movement is irrelevant as a political movement, but still holds some value as a comedy act, albeit unintentionally.

This is the way the assholes ignore me.

I'm not ignoring you. You're way too much fun to mock.

Look at the explosion, asshole.

The ones where the 767s hit the towers? Seen 'em.

 
At 21 February, 2010 08:17, Anonymous NoIdentity said...

You will continue to foam at the mouth, ranting about conspiracies while everyone else ignores you and gets on with their lives.

Wow. Serious projection. Someone obsessed with "treason" at the highest levels of the government will never get on with his life.

I think the "explosions" he's ranting about are the "squibs" that appear several stories in advance of the collapse progression. They aren't explosions.

But if we examine the anomaly closely, we see these [would be] explosives work in reverse to an explosive blast. They tend to spurt out and then increase with time. An explosive works in reverse to this. Its strongest point is the moment the charge is set off. It doesn't increase its explosive strength with time
http://www.debunking911.com/overp.htm

 
At 21 February, 2010 08:18, Anonymous NoIdentity said...

And he's mad that "they" ignore him. Seriously, what's with the misunderstood-genius complexes?

 
At 21 February, 2010 11:12, Blogger Just Cause Just Facts said...

This began with, "AE911Truth held their series of 47 press conferences yesterday, but apparently the press failed to show up."

The assholes went off on weather, Alex Jones, and nonsense having nothing to do with the press failing to show up.


There has been and still is a conspiracy by the entire mainstream media to cover-up significant events which occurred on 9/11. Senior government people including President Bush ordered and rigged controlled demolition at the WTC to make the attack by the two planes that hit both towers far more spectacular. Instead of the media reporting what the reporters at the WTC had seen and heard, they all decided to protect the most senior government officials by concealing certain facts.

The three spectacular facts that have been concealed by the entire mainstream media are 1) the near free fall speed of the collapse by all three towers, 2) the collapse of Building 7 which was never hit by any plane, and 3) the thousands of beams that were cut into pieces and exploded all around the WTC complex and roofs of adjacent buildings.

On the annual day devoted to 9/11 events in 2009, the media forgot to mention its own decision not to cover the collapse of the 47-story building designated as Building 7. Can that be a coincidence driven by independent management, or is it driven by a conspiracy agreement to not analyze the news blackout for the past eight years?

 
At 21 February, 2010 11:35, Anonymous NoIdentity said...

The media covered WTC7. They didn't sensationalize it and shout OMG OMG NO PLANE HIT!! But they covered it. Where do you think all the youtube videos of it's collapse come from?

 
At 21 February, 2010 11:37, Anonymous NoIdentity said...

1) the near free fall speed of the collapse by all three towers

Come on RR aren't you going to call him out?

 
At 21 February, 2010 11:39, Anonymous NoIdentity said...

And JustCause, you do realize that the debris falling off the towers fell faster than the collapse progression? You can even see this on your profile pic.

 
At 21 February, 2010 11:40, Anonymous Arhoolie said...

Hans Gruber,from the Helsinki Institute?

 
At 21 February, 2010 11:56, Anonymous Roid Rage said...

1) the near free fall speed of the collapse by all three towers

Come on RR aren't you going to call him out?


Yes. Just Cause Just Facts: you are an idiot. Freefall speed does not exist.

WTC 1 fell at approximately 0.7g and there was a decline in acceleration near the end. I don't know about WTC 2, but afaik it was similar.

WTC 7 exhibited pure freefall for a minimum of 2.25 seconds or approx. seven/eight floors, but that was that. This freefall period has not been adequately explained, nor do I think the people at NIST really understand it either (unless they are consciously covering up demolition of 7).

If you do talk about this stuff, be accurate about it please.

P.S. I know the bunktards will say that WTC 7's freefall was explained, but I find this explanation severely lacking, sorry.

 
At 21 February, 2010 11:58, Anonymous NoIdentity said...

I'm just keeping you honest RR. After all, you accuse the debunkers of covering up each-other's errors.

 
At 21 February, 2010 12:07, Anonymous Roid Rage said...

I'm just keeping you honest RR. After all, you accuse the debunkers of covering up each-other's errors.

Really...I make no distinction. Ignorance, sloppiness and bad science are really bad foundations for ideology, whether you're a "truther" or a "debunker".

(Or a Holocaust denier, or a climate change denier, <3 Dorothy)

 
At 21 February, 2010 13:12, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"I said. go. look, make your own mind up."

Already way ahead of you. Seen both sides of the argument and the real science wins I'm afraid.

PS you sound like Boris when you say stuff like that.

 
At 21 February, 2010 13:42, Blogger Just Cause Just Facts said...

"Where do you think all the youtube videos of it's collapse come from?"

Hey shit head. There were hundreds of cameras at the WTC minutes after the first plane hit the North Tower.

That's where the youtube videos came from. Most of the pictures were taken by people who defied the government's effort to prevent those pictures from being taken.

Only assholes are unable to understand that if only it was an attack by terrorists the sleaze bag government you assholes love would have nothing to hide.

Let's hear so more stupid shit about the weather, JFK, or other nonsense that has nothing to do with 9/11.

 
At 21 February, 2010 13:53, Blogger Just Cause Just Facts said...

"The media covered WTC7. They didn't sensationalize it and shout OMG OMG NO PLANE HIT!! But they covered it."

The media sensationalizes Tiger Woods cheated on his wife, Mike Phelps smoked a bong, healthcare for a year, some broad had 8 kids, a governor got lost on the Appalachian trail, and more complete nonsense.

I never heard building 7 collapsed for 5 years. I'm a news junkie. That's the reason I investigated 9/11. Then I learned the 9/11 Commission never mentioned building 7.

Only the brain dead could brush that off. You are way beyond being an asshole. There's no word that can describe your level of stupidity.

 
At 21 February, 2010 14:05, Blogger Just Cause Just Facts said...

"Freefall speed does not exist."

Can you possibly say something more stupid than that?

Try hard, you can do it.

I underestimated the land of the assholes. Being an asshole to all these jerks is a compliment.

 
At 21 February, 2010 14:28, Anonymous Roid Rage said...

Can you possibly say something more stupid than that?

Try hard, you can do it.

I underestimated the land of the assholes. Being an asshole to all these jerks is a compliment.


Tell me: how does one define meters per second squared? As velocity or as acceleration? What does the "a" stand for in Newton's second law of motion?

Tell me: how does one establish whether or not freefall has occurred using one data point, if fluctuations are possible?

It appears to me you should keep your incompetent trap shut, truther.

 
At 21 February, 2010 14:36, Anonymous paul w said...

Truther fight, truther fight!!!!!Truther fight, truther fight!!!!!Truther fight, truther fight!!!!!

Hey, JCJF, RR called you an idiot!

Hey, RR, JCJF called you an asshole!

"That's the reason I investigated 9/11."
JCJF

"Investigated"

BWWAAAAHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!

 
At 21 February, 2010 14:43, Blogger Just Cause Just Facts said...

Lance’s district office is at 23 Royal Road, Suite 101 here. But he will not be there when Urcinas shows up, since the congressman expects to be in Trenton at the time, taping a televison program, he said this morning.

And Lance doesn 't think much of the views of the group Urcinas is in, called AE911Truth.

Lance believes the building destruction is "a direct result of the plane attack on the building," adding that he rejects out of hand the notion "that the government or anybody inside the building was responsible for the attack."

Rejected out of hand -- That means Urcinas disregards evidence.

If the reporter tried to find a person such as Gage or me who can explain the evidence, his story would have value. That's why the reporter never identified himself.

Is there freedom of the press here? Only for those who reject the truth to expose government lies. Urcinas is another government liar.

 
At 21 February, 2010 14:49, Blogger Just Cause Just Facts said...

"The acceleration due to gravity on the Earth is 9.81 m/s2. It is given the physics code g and often the value is approximated to 10 m/s2. (The latter approximation is perfectly acceptable in A-level examinations.) All objects will accelerate downwards at this rate, regardless of mass."

 
At 21 February, 2010 15:00, Blogger Just Cause Just Facts said...

Falling through air compared to falling through 247 steel columns connected by 47 horizontal steel beams.

I wonder if there is any difference in speed? Yeh asshole there would be a difference in speed.

Do you need to be an architect to make that conclusion?

What's beyond morons and imbeciles?

Only delusions.

 
At 21 February, 2010 15:08, Anonymous Dylan Unsavery said...

What's beyond morons and imbeciles?

That's no way to speak about Roid Rage. You apologize now and then tell me what an A-level is.

 
At 21 February, 2010 15:09, Blogger Just Cause Just Facts said...

Can you possibly say something more stupid than that?

Try hard, you can do it.

RR tried hard.

"Freefall speed does not exist."

Is there a scale we can weigh dumb shit on? Did RR exceed his own stupidity? Keep trying RR.

"Freefall speed does not exist."

Maybe your dumb friends can help you.

This might be a record.
"Freefall speed does not exist."

 
At 21 February, 2010 15:14, Anonymous Dylan Unsavery said...

Listen, pal, I'm trying to keep a bright guy like you out of trouble.
You could be banned for calling Roid Rage an imbecile. Apologize now or face the consequences, but don't get banned before you telling me what an A-level is.

 
At 21 February, 2010 15:44, Anonymous Roid Rage said...

"The acceleration due to gravity on the Earth is 9.81 m/s2. It is given the physics code g and often the value is approximated to 10 m/s2. (The latter approximation is perfectly acceptable in A-level examinations.) All objects will accelerate downwards at this rate, regardless of mass."

Yes! _ACCELERATION_! Thanks for making my point!

If I could make the above blink, I would. Just so it fucking registers.

Falling through air compared to falling through 247 steel columns connected by 47 horizontal steel beams.

I wonder if there is any difference in speed? Yeh asshole there would be a difference in speed.

Do you need to be an architect to make that conclusion?

What's beyond morons and imbeciles?

Only delusions.


There would also be a "difference" in position vs time plots. What's your damn point? You're using the wrong derivative every time you use the term "freefall speed". Freefall isn't defined by speed, but by the rate of change of that speed.

In fact, the third derivative of position, the "jerk", also provides very useful information about what is happening w.r.t. crushing work.

Notice you have not answered my questions at all. Your prerogative.

Also, note the Twin Towers had 236 (+4 corner) perimeter columns and 47 core columns (not horizontal beams)... so it appears you are wrong there too.

 
At 21 February, 2010 16:10, Anonymous NoIdentity said...

Couldn't you describe a speed as "free-fall" if you also attribute a time to it? like "9.8m/s@1second" or something? I know I'm splitting hairs here I'm just curious.
Either way, the debris from the North and South Towers fell faster than the collapse progression. Just look at JCJF's profile pic.
I like talking about Henry Kissinger more than physics anyways!

 
At 21 February, 2010 16:39, Anonymous Roid Rage said...

Couldn't you describe a speed as "free-fall" if you also attribute a time to it? like "9.8m/s@1second" or something? I know I'm splitting hairs here I'm just curious.
If your starting point (t=0) is known, you can calculate the speed an object will have reached if falling at freefall at any point from there on, and compare it to the actual speed observed. Same thing with position. This works as long as there are no fluctuations. In other words: using this method you either detect sustained, uninterrupted freefall or "no freefall". However, this is deceptive: you could have missed fluctuations due to the fact that you're using one data point. Working with "speed", you can only say whether or not the building fell at absolute freefall for the entire duration of the fall. Youtubers "RKOwens4" and "AlienEntity" use this misconception to successfully "debunk" claims made by incompetent hacks such as JCJF.

Either way, the debris from the North and South Towers fell faster than the collapse progression. Just look at JCJF's profile pic. I like talking about Henry Kissinger more than physics anyways!
I emphasize that freefall is defined by acceleration exactly because of examples such as this. Instead of studying the buildings acceleration using all data points available, a simplistic comparison is made to full freefall. If you dropped something from the roof of WTC 7 at collapse initiation, if would have reached the ground earlier than the roof. You could, therefore, have erroneously concluded that no freefall occurred during the collapse of WTC 7. This is what NIST did. Intentionally. Chandler never talks about "freefall speed", but "freefall" or "freefall acceleration", and that's how it's supposed to be.

 
At 21 February, 2010 16:44, Anonymous NoIdentity said...

if would have reached the ground earlier than the roof.
Because the freefall acceleration only occurred for a portion of WTC7's collapse, not the entirety, right?

 
At 21 February, 2010 16:55, Anonymous Roid Rage said...

Because the freefall acceleration only occurred for a portion of WTC7's collapse, not the entirety, right?
Yes, and the entire question is whether or not this portion (seven floors/2.25 seconds) is plausibly achievable by natural means. I'm working on trying to understand this...heh.

Think about it: after this period WTC 7 starts to slow down. So.. if the entire structure collapsed on the inside first, why was there this period of freefall followed by resistance? Somehow, the progressive collapse must have taken out the entire core across the width of the building, for a height of seven floors, and the exterior columns must then have buckled across this height, not providing any resistance at all.

Maybe I'll understand some day how this was possible, but until then...I'm skeptical. Suppose NIST was honest and well-meaning, then in that case they didn't find out the true cause of this freefall event, because they simply weren't able to get their computer model to produce this occurrence.

 
At 21 February, 2010 17:00, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Right, just as they stop "alternative" interpretations of the theory of gravity from spreading. It's not the media's job to air the ideas of every lunatic screaming on a street corner."

ha ha!! good one, new yorker. You're a funny guy.

But hold on, man. Think about this, - you want to invade Iraq, so what do you do?
1. plant some WMDs in the Iraqi desert.
2. spend years devising a plan that involves the smashing of remote controlled planes into skyscrapers,then bringing the said buildings down so egregiously that the watching world can see your handiwork, voice morphing, a cast of thousands, Mossad, the proverbial rogue element in the CIA, a conspiracy so obvious that any neophyte with a laptop can blow the whole thing wide open in half an hour.
Come on. It's obvious isn't it?
I'm going to sit up all night researching nano thermite...

 
At 21 February, 2010 17:40, Anonymous Marc said...

El Nino man made?

If Monsanto could cause one I would advise buying stock because that is a monumental feet.

You realize that the kind of energy required to warm that much ocean would require technology that they don't even have on Star Trek, right? Also, if some evil corperation had that kind of toy at it's disposal, why would they keep it secret? Think of the money that they could make from the US and UN alone! How much would Florida pay never to have a hurricane again? How much would the mid-western states pay to become tornado-free? How much would ski resorts pay to ensure ample snow every year? How much would California, Nevada, Arizona and the other desert states pay for rain every year?

What corperation would keep a gold-mine like that secret? Corperations are in the business of business and their goal is to make truck loads of money. The US gub'mint doesn't have that kind of money to pay to supress an invention of that scale.

It really helps to understand basic meterology and have a business class before one drops their pants, spreads their cheeks and squirts out a conspircay theory.

 
At 21 February, 2010 18:04, Blogger Just Cause Just Facts said...

"You could be banned for calling Roid Rage an imbecile."

Please don't ban me from this nonsense. I'll cry.

I just banned myself from wasting any more time with delusional nit wits protecting traitors.

 
At 21 February, 2010 18:12, Anonymous New Yorker said...

On the annual day devoted to 9/11 events in 2009, the media forgot to mention its own decision not to cover the collapse of the 47-story building designated as Building 7.

Wait, I thought the media told us about the collapse an hour before it happened and that proved insider knowledge of the controlled demolition? You knuckleheads need to get your story straight.

And I'm too tired to read the rest of his posts, since there's unlikely to be anything but the same tired "truther" talking points.

But I do like the Jimmy-on-Timmy violence between Roid Rage and Just a Dumbass. "Truther" fights are the best part of reading this blog.

 
At 21 February, 2010 18:38, Anonymous paul w said...

"Did RR exceed his own stupidity? Keep trying RR."
JCJF

"incompetent hacks such as JCJF."
RR

Truther fight, truther fight!!!!!Truther fight, truther fight!!!!!Truther fight, truther fight!!!!!

 
At 21 February, 2010 18:39, Anonymous NoIdentity said...

I just banned myself from wasting any more time with delusional nit wits protecting traitors.
I thought it was only right-wing nuts who threw the words "treason" and "traitor" around like they meant nothing. I'm gonna tell Ann Coulter that you're stealing her routine! She'll totally kick your ass.

 
At 21 February, 2010 18:47, Anonymous Roid Rage said...

Please don't ban me from this nonsense. I'll cry.

I just banned myself from wasting any more time with delusional nit wits protecting traitors.


The best way to protect traitors is to be a sloppy researcher.

 
At 21 February, 2010 19:43, Anonymous Marc said...

Why stage 9/11 to invade Iraq?

First, we had spent 9 nine years enforcing the "No-Fly Zone", which was part of a cease-fire agreement that Iraq had signed. Every time they fired at our planes they were in violation of that cease-fire and we could then resume hostilities. So why go to the trouble of a convoluted terrorist attack - NOT USING A SINGLE IRAQI - to invade a country that technically we were still at war with anyway? And then why invade Afghanistan first? Afghanistan sucks ass, it is one of the last places on earth our military wanted to operate in - EVER.

Finally, the troofers want me to believe that the men who pulled off the 9/11 attacks using mythical thermite, a secret missle, possible forcing a plane to land at a secret airbase and doing away with the passengers; I'm supposed to believe that these same men would some how over-look planting WMDs in Iraq for our troops and the corrupt media to find?

Why is it that not one troofer has been mudered, died in a mysterious accident, or committed suicide by shooting themselves in the back of the head? Men who could pull off the 9/11 attacks and silence the thousands of people that it would have taken to execute would not think twice about liquidating a handful of momma's boys.

Even the JFK kooks have their "Mysterious Death" list.

 
At 21 February, 2010 20:19, Blogger angrysoba said...

Finally, the troofers want me to believe that the men who pulled off the 9/11 attacks using mythical thermite, a secret missle, possible forcing a plane to land at a secret airbase and doing away with the passengers; I'm supposed to believe that these same men would some how over-look planting WMDs in Iraq for our troops and the corrupt media to find?


The NWO moves in mysterious ways!!1!

 
At 22 February, 2010 01:35, Anonymous Dylan Unsavery said...

Just Cause Just Facts said...
"You could be banned for calling Roid Rage an imbecile."

Please don't ban me from this nonsense. I'll cry.

I just banned myself from wasting any more time with delusional nit wits protecting traitors.


Sorry, my mistake - I thought I was in a troofer forum where people get banned for nothing at all. No , of course you won't get banned for calling Roid Rage an imbecile. You won't even get banned for failing to tell me what an A-level is.

 
At 22 February, 2010 03:39, Anonymous Roid Rage said...

Why stage 9/11 to invade Iraq?
Loaded question fallacy! :)
(1) 9/11 wasn't 'staged'. An Al Qaeda terror attack was allowed to occur, possibly even facilitated and/or aggravated.
(2) The sole objective of (1) wasn't to invade Iraq, it was a multi-faceted "opportunity" as some in the Bush administration put it. (IIRC, Bush himself)

First, we had spent 9 nine years enforcing the "No-Fly Zone", which was part of a cease-fire agreement that Iraq had signed. Every time they fired at our planes they were in violation of that cease-fire and we could then resume hostilities. So why go to the trouble of a convoluted terrorist attack - NOT USING A SINGLE IRAQI - to invade a country that technically we were still at war with anyway? And then why invade Afghanistan first? Afghanistan sucks ass, it is one of the last places on earth our military wanted to operate in - EVER.
Why attack Afghanistan when there was NOT A SINGLE AFGHANI among the hijackers? Of course, you are still working on the erroneous premise that 9/11 was exclusively used to invade Iraq. I think the military can think of worse places to operate in. I can't imagine a general going: "Sorry mr. president. The military does not feel like invading such and such today. We think the target sucks."

Finally, the troofers want me to believe that the men who pulled off the 9/11 attacks using mythical thermite,
Appeal to ridicule, there is nothing 'mythical' about thermite, except for ignorant bone-headed fools or spin doctors.

a secret missle, possible forcing a plane to land at a secret airbase and doing away with the passengers;
Straw man arguments.

I'm supposed to believe that these same men would some how over-look planting WMDs in Iraq for our troops and the corrupt media to find?
I guess that means there wasn't a conspiracy to lie about Iraq either? Besides, they "planted" WMD's there when they still did dealings with their puppet Saddam. All they had to do was hope some of it was still there. Lastly, how does planting American WMD's help the cause? LOL.

Why is it that not one troofer has been mudered, died in a mysterious accident, or committed suicide by shooting themselves in the back of the head? Men who could pull off the 9/11 attacks and silence the thousands of people that it would have taken to execute would not think twice about liquidating a handful of momma's boys.
Bill Cooper. Barry Jennings. But as Cass Sunstein's paper shows: the government prefers simply ignoring "conspiracy theories", as responding to them provides "legitimacy".

Even the JFK kooks have their "Mysterious Death" list.
I wish you were on it.

<3

 
At 22 February, 2010 07:23, Blogger Lazarus Long said...

"Even the JFK kooks have their "Mysterious Death" list.
I wish you were on it."

Ah, the gibbering fascist peeks out from under the manure pile.

 
At 22 February, 2010 07:29, Anonymous Roid Rage said...

Ah, the gibbering fascist peeks out from under the manure pile.

Which pile? The toxic one I left on your son's military service?

By the way: are you sure it's your son? Does he really look like you? I have difficulty believing your sperm cells could do more than just bump into each other aimlessly, lost in some poor chap's butt hole at some obscure tea party militia event. LOL!

 
At 22 February, 2010 10:42, Anonymous Roman Craig said...

Hey Roid - tell us what the Nazis did to your family.

 
At 22 February, 2010 10:45, Anonymous Troofers R Us said...

What rock did this douchebag Screwd Again/JCJF crawl out from under?

Investment Banker??? Right...

I would leave a comment on his psychotic blog but I don't want to be the first.

 
At 22 February, 2010 11:04, Anonymous Roid Rage said...

Hey Roid - tell us what the Nazis did to your family.
Oooh! Socially engineering again, NoID? Infogathering? I knew from the outset that this was your intention.

 
At 22 February, 2010 13:22, Anonymous NoIdentity said...

Oooh! Socially engineering again, NoID? Infogathering? I knew from the outset that this was your intention.

I never said anything about Nazis or your family. That was Roman Craig's post.
And what the hell are you talking about social engineering? I'm not a government bureaucrat... yet!
And as far as "infogathering" goes, if I'm inquisitive it's because I'm curious, not becuase I'm some COINTELPRO operative out to engage in cognitive infiltration.
Do you think I'm trying to stalk you?
I have a file in my desk labeled "Subject: Roid Rage" complete with a composite sketch of what I imagine you to look like. :-)

 
At 22 February, 2010 13:25, Anonymous NoIdentity said...

I'll admit I'm quite disappointed that lately the discourse has devolved in to talk of feces and people's mothers.

 
At 22 February, 2010 14:08, Anonymous Roid Rage said...

I'll admit I'm quite disappointed that lately the discourse has devolved in to talk of feces and people's mothers.
"They" started it. I think. Who cares.

P.S. I don't think you're "cointelpro", or whatever. Nor did I say so. But you are a slick operator and you know it. Are you some kind of hostage negotiator? I want a chopper and a bag of Doritos.

 
At 22 February, 2010 14:11, Anonymous NoIdentity said...

A slick operator eh? How do you figure? I'll take that as a compliment!
I didn't say anything about Nazis or your family though.

 
At 22 February, 2010 14:54, Anonymous Marc said...

We invaded Afghanistan because that is where the 9/11 hijackers had train and that is where Al Qaeda was based.

As for the military telling the White House that they'd rather not intitiate a mission in a country because it would suck, they've done it in the past many times. They did it during the 1990s when the Clinton Administration thought about a raid on AQ's bases. The JSOC guys told the Clinton NSC that it couldn't be done, especially with the unrealistic ROE.

The Military can tell the White House "No" if it feels that the mission is unwarrented or illegal. Look at their refusal to hold military tribunals at Guantanimo Bay, JAG lawers didn't feel that they were Constitutional and the Supreme Court agree'd. The laws have been changed (rightly or wrongly) so that the US couldn't even participate in a Nuremberg Trail as the law stands today.

The military are not puppets.

My favorite part of (Hem)Roid-Rage's counter was that all my points were Troofer points, and he calls BS. Yet he then turns around and propogrates more troofer bullshit.

Straw Man heal thy self.

 
At 22 February, 2010 15:36, Anonymous Roid Rage said...

We invaded Afghanistan because that is where the 9/11 hijackers had train and that is where Al Qaeda was based.
Duh. Sigh. Ever heard of a reductio ad absurdum? Anyways, like I said, you are working from the faulty premise of MIHOP. Moreover, 9/11 was the lynchpin for the Bush Doctrine, which was in turn the basis for the invasion of Iraq.

As for the military telling the White House that they'd rather not intitiate a mission in a country because it would suck, they've done it in the past many times. They did it during the 1990s when the Clinton Administration thought about a raid on AQ's bases. The JSOC guys told the Clinton NSC that it couldn't be done, especially with the unrealistic ROE.
Invasion plans were available and ready to go before 9/11.

The Military can tell the White House "No" if it feels that the mission is unwarrented or illegal. Look at their refusal to hold military tribunals at Guantanimo Bay, JAG lawers didn't feel that they were Constitutional and the Supreme Court agree'd. The laws have been changed (rightly or wrongly) so that the US couldn't even participate in a Nuremberg Trail as the law stands today.

Might you have a source for this? I'm interested.

My favorite part of (Hem)Roid-Rage's counter was that all my points were Troofer points, and he calls BS. Yet he then turns around and propogrates more troofer bullshit.

Straw Man heal thy self.

Kind of incoherent jibber-jabber here. It's as if you're looking for something to gripe about, but just can't find it. Just deal with the points presented to you, if you can.

 
At 22 February, 2010 15:42, Anonymous NoIdentity said...

We have contingency plans to invade plenty of countries. That doesn't mean we're planning to, just ready to if need be.

Anyways, like I said, you are working from the faulty premise of MIHOP.

I knew you didn't believe that shit and just defend it for the sake of fighting with right-wingers!

 
At 22 February, 2010 17:47, Anonymous New Yorker said...

I knew you didn't believe that shit and just defend it for the sake of fighting with right-wingers!

That does seem to be Roid Rage's MO: he doesn't believe 9/11 "truth", but his advocating on its behalf pisses off the "Nazis", so he does it anyway. Bizarre.

 
At 25 February, 2010 05:30, Anonymous sackcloth and ashes said...

'Invasion plans were available and ready to go before 9/11.'

More utter bollocks from RR. The 'plans' (see Steve Coll, 'Ghost Wars”, p.580; and Benjamin & Simon, 'Age of Sacred Terror', pp.345-346) are a reference to NSPD-9, which outlines a covert programme to arm anti-Taliban forces in Afghanistan, and to arm the Predators. Furthermore, as Coll notes, 'there remained uncertainty [after the Cabinet meeting on 4th September] about where the money [to aid anti-Taliban forces] would come from and how much would ultimately be available'. There is no specific discussion on how the proposals of NSPD-9 should be implemented, and which government agency (State? CIA? DOD?) should be responsible. For those of us who live in the reality-based community, this is pretty significant.

No reference is made to an actual fully-prepped Operational Plan (OPLAN) for the US military to invade Afghanistan. (as also noted by Benjamin Lambeth in 'Air Power against Terror', and also Frederick Kagan, 'Finding the Target. The Transformation of American Military Power' (NY: Encounter Books 2006), chapter 8). If the Joint Chiefs of Staff had a contingency OPLAN for Afghanistan, then the US military wouldn't have been so dependent upon the Northern Alliance.

 
At 25 February, 2010 05:31, Anonymous sackcloth and ashes said...

Finally, any notion that the Bush administration was gearing itself up for a war with the Taliban is refuted by Rice's own testimony (http://edition.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/04/08/rice.transcript/). Note the following with reference to NSPD-9:

'This new strategy was developed over the Spring and Summer of 2001, and was approved by the president’s senior national security officials on September 4. It was the very first major national security policy directive of the Bush administration — not Russia, not missile defense, not Iraq, but the elimination of al Qaeda.

Although this National Security Presidential Directive was originally a highly classified document, we arranged for portions to be declassified to help the Commission in its work, and I will describe some of those today. The strategy set as its goal the elimination of the al Qaeda network.

It ordered the leadership of relevant U.S. departments and agencies to make the elimination of al Qaeda a high priority and to use all aspects of our national power — intelligence, financial, diplomatic, and military — to meet this goal. And it gave Cabinet Secretaries and department heads specific responsibilities.

For instance: It directed the secretary of state to work with other countries to end all sanctuaries given to al Qaeda. It directed the secretaries of the treasury and state to work with foreign governments to seize or freeze assets and holdings of al Qaeda and its benefactors.

It directed the director of central intelligence to prepare an aggressive program of covert activities to disrupt al Qaeda and provide assistance to anti-Taliban groups operating against al Qaeda in Afghanistan.

It tasked the director of OMB with ensuring that sufficient funds were available in the budgets over the next five years to meet the goals laid out in the strategy.
And it directed the secretary of defense to — and I quote — “ensure that the contingency planning process include plans: against al Qaeda and associated terrorist facilities in Afghanistan, including leadership, command-control-communications, training, and logistics facilities; against Taliban targets in Afghanistan, including leadership, command-control, air and air defense, ground forces, and logistics; to eliminate weapons of mass destruction which al Qaeda and associated terrorist groups may acquire or manufacture, including those stored in underground bunkers.”

[NB: This is a significant statement from Rice, as it indicates that these contingencies have not been prepared for. Note also the lack of any reference to an invasion or regime change - S&A]

This was a change from the prior strategy — Presidential Decision Directive 62, signed in 1998 — which ordered the secretary of defense to provide transportation to bring individual terrorists to the U.S. for trial, to protect DOD forces overseas, and to be prepared to respond to terrorist and weapons of mass destruction incidents.’

Evidence is a bitch, isn't it, RR?

 
At 25 February, 2010 09:35, Anonymous Arhoolie said...

Typical schtick from Sackpanties.Trotting out the same old propagandists like the ridiculous Coll,and quoting Condi Rice like she's some paragon of forthrightness shows us that this moron is helpless without a stack of sophisticated disinformation next to his drinks station.Gee,another coincidence,the US "just happened" to need the Northern Alliance's help and,heck,they ended up in close partnership with them through to the present.Excuse me while I provide Rory Bremner with some more material for his stand up act! In another weird juxtaposition,Hamid Karzai,the ex-oil company lackey,and coicidentally the hand picked CIA boy over there,is brother to the biggest heroin kingpin on the Planet Earth.Sackie,you are beyond gullible and truly less than weasel.

 
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At 27 February, 2010 06:45, Anonymous sackcloth and ashes said...

'Typical schtick from Sackpanties.Trotting out the same old propagandists like the ridiculous Coll,and quoting Condi Rice like she's some paragon of forthrightness shows us that this moron is helpless without a stack of sophisticated disinformation next to his drinks station.Gee,another coincidence,the US "just happened" to need the Northern Alliance's help and,heck,they ended up in close partnership with them through to the present.Excuse me while I provide Rory Bremner with some more material for his stand up act! In another weird juxtaposition,Hamid Karzai,the ex-oil company lackey,and coicidentally the hand picked CIA boy over there,is brother to the biggest heroin kingpin on the Planet Earth.Sackie,you are beyond gullible and truly less than weasel.'

Yet again, Walt takes his head for a shit, and conveniently ignores all the evidence stacked against him and his fucked up 'theories'.
He even takes the chance to invent some new stories of his own - without of course, actually going to the time and trouble of actually backing his shit up with 'evidence'.

 
At 27 February, 2010 09:36, Anonymous Arhoolie said...

Sackie the War Criminal:desperate,hapless,feckless and completely behind the curve.British Intelligence protects the London bombing mastermind and this schnook can only hyperventilate and insist that I never lived in England! His weak stumble wherein he insists that I am "inventing things" really is the saddest refuge for a scoundrel who seems proud that he 's a towelboy for the Imperialists.Pathetic,Boyo.Fill us in on the CIA and Jundullah.We;re eagerly anticipating another pound coin in the Mighty Wurlitzer!! Ga Hey Brofee!

 

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