Poll Vault: Angus-Reid
According to this, 26 percent of Americans believe that the 9-11 attacks were a pretext for war:
In the online survey of a representative national sample of 1,007 American adults, 62 per cent of respondents disagree with Ahmadinejad’s claims that the “Sept. 11 incident was a big fabrication as a pretext for the campaign against terrorism and a prelude for staging an invasion against Afghanistan.” Only 26 per cent of respondents agree with this notion, and 12 per cent are undecided.
However, note a few key points here. First, it's an online survey, not a telephone poll. Second, in looking at the actual question asked, it did not mention Ahmadinejad himself, it just as if they agreed with the statement. Third, another question asks, "The commission that investigated the attacks of September 11, 2001 concluded that an attack was carried out by 19 hijackers who were members of the al-Qaeda terrorist organization, led by Osama bin Laden. Do you believe this is actually what happened on 9/11?" For that question, only 12% said no. In addition, in the crosstabs, we see that while 33% of self-identified Democrats agreed with Ahmadinejad's statement, only 13% disagreed with the 9-11 Commission, although there is a large number of "not sure" responses (20%).
When we go to some of the specific conspiracy theories, only 15% find the controlled demolition of the WTC credible (with 11% not sure and 74% dismissing it). The shoot-down of Flight 93 is also found credible by 15% (with 22% not sure and 62% finding it not credible). No plane at the Pentagon checks in at 13% credible, 11% not sure and 76% not credible; those numbers are virtually identical to the controlled demolition numbers. TV fakery? 6% find it credible, 7% not sure, and 87% find it not credible. Unfortunately, there are no crosstabs to let us know the percentage of Democrats versus Republicans on those questions.
Overall, I'd say that the results make it pretty clear that somewhere between a quarter and an eighth of all Americans are Troofers. But, as I have said often in the past, just because (say) 30% of all Americans believe Elvis is still alive, doesn't mean they spend their spare time searching for him. Active 9-11 Truthers are probably smaller than 0.01% of the population.
posted by Pat @ 2:10 PM
50 comments
50 Comments:
In other news, Pat still can't explain why Shyam Sunder said that gravitational acceleration is impossible wrt to Building 7, or anything else on the planet, that has 'structural elements' to provide resistance. Why would he say this, Pat? How did building 7 fall without resistance for 105 feet, according to NIST? Was it because 'the column failed over 8 floors'? Is that all the research and nuance you're capable of?
New Poll Gauges Americans' General Knowledge Levels
When Americans are asked to identify the country from which America gained its independence, Only 76% correctly name Great Britain.
Four out of Five Americans Know the Earth Revolves Around Sun! 18% think it's the other way around! And I bet a large number of them are truthers.
And then you have all those who believe a god created it all. Astrology is very popular.
The desperate and shrill whine coming from the Debunker Cult has reached a fever pitch! The ludicrous insomniac Paddie McCurleyhairs has been scraping the bottom of the barrel for so long that it was startling to see him burrowing even deeper into Wonderland,but there it was:"..somewhere between an eighth and a quarter (is this hack a dope dealer?)of Americans are 'truthers'".But according to the feckless guru this indication that millions of Americans doubt the official lie means nothing.His contempt for regular folks is amazing.He compounds the idiocy by creating a fictional Elvis scenario and then crashes his crackmobile on the divider by claiming that the 15-25% is actually 0.01%!! Tiger,you are so out to lunch that you MUST be getting paid by the thread.How else to explain the astoundingly hapless decision to try and spin this? It's opver for you propaganda inhaling shitheads.
Arhoolie, You do know the Earth revolves around the Sun. Or do you have questions on that one too.
And then there's Shyte,the smart one!! Piling up stupid comment after stupid comment,this sap is truly contemptuous of his own free thinking brethren.I guess you're stuck with the ludicrous notion that every one who's skeptical of propaganda is dumb White Trash.Look in your own backyard you simple fuck.
Just because a couple million Americans believe something doesn't make it true.
WTC didn't fall without resistance, in fact it went down in a series of structural collapses.
"It's opver for you propaganda inhaling shitheads."
Right. Any time now. We're waiting.
...
Still nothing
...
Another troofer fail.
I'll bet that poor reading comprehension is partially responsible for the 26% agreeing with the statement. Some probably ignored the "fabrication" language and intended to agree only that 9/11 was used as a pretext for war.
"Arhoolie the Cyber-Hero said...
And then there's Shyte,the smart one!! Piling up stupid comment after stupid comment,this sap is truly contemptuous of his own free thinking brethren.I guess you're stuck with the ludicrous notion that every one who's skeptical of propaganda is dumb White Trash.Look in your own backyard you simple fuck."
Can someone translate this agglutination of non-sequitors into English?
Thanks.
Hello everyone. I have come to apologize for my non-sensical rants of the past few months. I had nothing in life. I even made up a story that I had actually lost people I loved in the terrorist attacks, and one where I was a veteran. I'm really ashamed about that one.I've come to realize that I need help. You see,I've met a girl and now this 9/11 shit doesn't matter to me. I know its not an inside job, but in my anger at being alone and worthless, I felt harassing people here by being as trolltastic as possible would make me feel better about my failures in life. But I'm turning it around. I'm dating now. And I'm sorry to Pat most of all. It was childish to post as Shat Turdley, etc... please forgive me! And keep up the fight against the twoofer cult!
Ar hoo is a lie?
Pat is an Asshole said...
Oooh, twoofer gets angry because someone doesn't feel the need to rebut the twoofer's bogus science. Grow up, moron.
Overall, I'd say that the results make it pretty clear that somewhere between a quarter and an eighth of all Americans are Troofers.
I don't think it's that high. A lot of people who say "yes" when asked this crap are casual twoofers or people who are sick of the war on terror and twooferism offers them some intellectual out. I've only encountered one person in real life (as opposed to "cyberlife" where twoofers maintain an outsized presence) who expressed twoofer like sentiments and I talked him out them pretty quickly.
More than half of all Americans are creationists, even though the evidence against that idea is overwhelming. It also kinda puts the "truther" numbers in perspective.
In other news, Ass can speculate but also can't explain why Shyam Sunder said that gravitational acceleration is impossible wrt to Building 7, or why that matters or why it proves 9/11 was an inside job. Why would he say this, Ass? Why is anyone supposed to care?
As I pointed out earlier, 30% of Americans believe in UFOs. Even 2% believe that they have been flown in a UFO, including Dennis Kucinich. You can get find people who believe in anything.
I'm another who thinks the stats do not mean that 25% of Americans are truthers.
I'd say that many of those answering would be doing so for reasons other than the US government organised it, or let it happen.
Even the question, in my opinion, is not exactly clear in its meaning:
“Sept. 11 incident was a big fabrication as a pretext for the campaign against terrorism and a prelude for staging an invasion against Afghanistan."
One could see it as meaning 9-11 was USED by the US govt as a pretext for the war on terror and Afghanistan, not that they did it, or let it happen.
Also, it seems the 15% who believe that CD was credible, is a more accurate assessment, and even then, it depends on how one read the question, i.e. did it mean it COULD have been CD and not that it was.
Ass is a Pathole said...
In other news, Ass can speculate but also can't explain why Shyam Sunder said that gravitational acceleration is impossible wrt to Building 7, or why that matters or why it proves 9/11 was an inside job. Why would he say this, Ass? Why is anyone supposed to care?
obviously you can't have gravitaional acceleration with a bunch of stuff in the way. all that stuff, like concrete slabs and steele beams needs to be removed for gravitational acceleration to occur.
to answer your questions, it's as simple as who do believe, Shyam Sunder or your lying eyes.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3664073116607499063&ei=vkKjS6D5K5yQqQONv-T9Cw&q=collapse+of+wtc+7&hl=en&view=3&emb=1#
any follow up on the usual sources post?
http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2009/12/unusual-sources.html#links
i noticed that pat and jamie don't have a lot to say about the sharp dressed man after the initial post.
funny how quiet things are when SLC isn't trying to tie 9/11 denial to elvis sightings and alien abductions.....
I spent about three or four years of my life absolutely livid at Bush for, in my opinion at the time, having used 911 (and the deaths of my friends) as an excuse to invade Iraq.
I was living in Cincinnati during the time of the Cincinnati speech (and I'm back now, of course) and I almost attended that speech, but I gave my seat to a younger colleague who was very much a Republican.
I thereafter fantasized about having stood up and yelled when Bush started in on Iraq.
I mean, I was livid.
I'm not sure how I would have answered the poll question - I don't have time right now to look at the specific question - but I'm sure it would have reflected how pissed off I was at Bush for, in my mind, fighting the wrong war at the wrong time.
(Of course, this is before I came to understand that the collapse of Iraq was inevitable and we didn't have to wait to intervene on everybody else's timetable).
"notion that every one who's skeptical of propaganda is dumb White Trash."
No, You you have poor black trash as well. But the majority of truthers do seem to be poor white kids of lower than average intelligence. Sorry but that is just a fact of the human condition, you have simpletons like you and smarter people which is just about everyone else, and they will treat you as the fool you are. Lean to live with your disability.
Class, race and intelligence all have absolutely nothing to do with it. It's about fear.
Class, race and intelligence all have absolutely nothing to do with it. It's about fear.
Intelligence has everything to do with it. Facts is you can sucker stupid people like truthers far easier than brighter people. And you can scare the simple with greater ease. Just look at truthers and tea baggers, both being led by fear mongering loons like Alex Jones.
You can tell the ignorant the towers fell at free-fall and they will buy it. They don't really know what free-fall is as a fact of physics, and learning about it is too hard for them, but it sounds good.
I'm still trying to figure out how the implication that bombs make things "fall faster" is supposed to work logically somehow...
" Just look at truthers and tea baggers"
1.) Better a teabagger than a teabagee.
2.) How can you conflate a few lunatic twoooofers™ with millions and millions of people who are legitimately concerned about the Obama administrations attempt to recreate America as a socialist utopia?
"2.) How can you conflate a few lunatic twoooofers™ with millions and millions of people who are legitimately concerned about the Obama administrations attempt to recreate America as a socialist utopia?"
Because they’re both made up of the same low brow idiot class. One suffered from Bush derangement syndrome and the other from Obama derangement syndrome. One more liberal and the other more conservative. One burned out hippies and the other poor and not so poor white trash.
One is all "god, guts and guns" shit-kickers and the other pseudo revolutionary pinheads. One gets their Kool-Aid from David Ray Griffin and the other from Glenn Beck and Rush Dimbulb.
To be sure I make a point of treating tea baggers with the same low regard I treat truthers. Did it to some mouth breather last week who stared in with the whole Obama socialist crap. He was kind of offended when I stared to laugh at bible quotes he started to throw out.
Inborn stupidity makes people buy this shit.
Dave - I am technically a "creationist". That is to say, I believe as Leonardo Da Vinci said; "Mathematics is the language in which God wrote the universe". I don't believe that people of faith should be afraid of mathematics which is the foundation of all science. I believe in following the numbers. If God is there, the math will lead us to him. I do not believe that so-called "Intelligent Design" belongs in science classrooms. Because God cannot be measured or defined in a way that is scientifically useful. And "Intelligent Design" has not produced any testable predictions.
In the case of 9/11, "God", in the form of the physical laws which he wrote, has spoken. An "inside job" as defined by the truthers is all but physically impossible. They have failed to do the math and show their work (which is why they had to fake their way into a journal with an already notoriously sloppy review process). They first suggested explosives but when explosives failed to fit all the known facts, they went to magic thermite. When magic thermite failed to match the effects observed on 9/11 they bounced back to conventional explosives (and the same problems they started with). "God's handwriting" points in one direction and they won't follow it ("Pat is an asshole" being a textbook example).
Your attempt to tar people of faith with the same brush as the blind fanatics of the truth movement is as unfair and prejudiced as anything the truthers themselves have come up with.
Because they’re both made up of the same low brow idiot class.
Yup. And they both have the same fundamental problem: they can't agree on anything except their petulance towards the status quo.
Both Truthers and Tea Party idiots can scream all day about what's wrong. But when it comes time to assert what should be instead, they quickly splinter into small, irrelevant factions because they can't agree on the most basic things.
"Because they’re both made up of the same low brow idiot class."
Why don't you just go fuck yourself, you sterotyping moron?
"Inborn stupidity makes people buy this shit."
Real open minded there, fuckhead.
"Yup. And they both have the same fundamental problem: they can't agree on anything except their petulance towards the status quo."
So how's that hopey changey thing working out for you?
All ready for socialist medicine?
So how's that hopey changey thing working out for you?
All ready for socialist medicine?
This is another thing Truthers and Tea Party people have in common: they have nothing to offer but empty slogans.
Look how quickly I can make this a 9-11 Truth argument, just by changing the subject matter:
So how's that 9-11 Commission Reports thing working out for you? All ready for gravitational acceleration?
Sounds like something Arhoolie would say, albeit with more spaces and fewer "boyos."
"This is another thing Truthers and Tea Party people have in common: they have nothing to offer but empty slogans."
Yeah, and "Hope and Change" are some of the most intellectually challanging bromides of all time.
Sorry, pal, I for one am not ready for reactionary leftists to remake America into a shabby imitaion of some Euroweenie shithole.
Ah,who was it who said imitation is the sincerest form of flattery? The cutest thing about this one is that it totally reveals the abject stupidity of the Debunker Cult by getting everything wrong.No,I never said I was a war veteran,but hey,Dickhead from Blimey talked about that,didn't he,so it must be true! No,I am not the blogger using goofy names.in the beginning I did that a bit for fun,but not in months."Shat Curley" is not my goof.Yes,a friend of mine died on the 100th floor.His name was Pat Danahy and I grew up with him and was in classes with his older sisters.No,I don't have any problem attracting women and I will kick any debunker's ass up and down Broadway anytime it could be arranged.Thanks for thinking about me and try,try to get your facts straight!!
There is something seriously wrong with their math.They breakdown respondents views by party affiliation. Even if Republicans were only 20% of the sample the number of people who support the "official story" should have been higher. The latest stats I found were a Gallup poll from the 3rd quarter of 2009, 27% of Americans self identified as Republicans, 28% as independents (almost 50-50 between Dem and GOP leaners) and 35% Democrats. Though I'm a Democrat I imagine the Republicans have picked up a few points since then.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/123362/Independents-Lean-GOP-Party-Gap-Smallest-Since-05.aspx
Let's do the math for the following question:
"The commission that investigated the events of Sept. 11, 2001 concluded that an attack was carried out by 19 hijackers who were members of the al-Qaeda terrorist organization, led by Osama bin Laden. Do you believe this is what actually happened on 9/11?"
Yes – Democrat 66%, Republican 80%,Independent 65%, Total 67%
Gallup's total came out to 90%, presumably 10% of the respondents had no opinion etc. To compensate for that I’ll multiply the other results by 1.11.
Democrats 66 x 0.35 = 23.1,
Republicans 80 x 0.27 = 21.6,
Independents 65 x 0.28 = 18.2
23.1 + 21.6 + 18.2 = 69.4 = 62.9 x 1.11 = 69.8
So they should have come up with a total of 70 % saying yes but only got 67%.
That’s a small difference but calls into question their claim their sample was a representative one.
"Arhoolie the Cyber-Hero said...
Ah,who was it who said imitation is the sincerest form of flattery?"
Your Mama.
The time you were brachiating from the water pipes in the basement.
General Curtis E.Pornboy has officially become a mockery of a travesty of a sham.Why bother,jackoff? Obviously BoyLen doesn't get out much.He's one of those number crunchers who would argue that Chuck Knoblauch was as good as Pete Rose.
"Arhoolie the Cyber-Hero said...
General Curtis E.Pornboy has officially become a mockery of a travesty of a sham.Why bother,jackoff? Obviously BoyLen doesn't get out much.He's one of those number crunchers who would argue that Chuck Knoblauch was as good as Pete Rose."
Does anyone know if Babelfish has a Retardese into Sane translating capability?
'Cause I sure want to plug that collection of grunts in and see what comes out.
"Sorry, pal, I for one am not ready for reactionary leftists to remake America into a shabby imitaion of some Euroweenie shithole."
Now THAT'S a slogan!
Can you enthrall us with some more of your incisive commentary?
Yeah, and "Hope and Change" are some of the most intellectually challanging bromides of all time.
Of course it was a slogan. It was a campaign slogan. All campaigns have them. The difference is that you seem to think SOCIALIZED MEDICINE OH NOES is some kind of intellectual argument against the proposed legislation.
If you oppose the legislation, fine; I'm not thrilled with it myself. But spare me the scare words and tell me what you think we should do instead. (Not just you, mind you, but the entire Republican opposition.)
"... you seem to think SOCIALIZED MEDICINE OH NOES is some kind of intellectual argument against the proposed legislation."
Look, pal, one of the reasons my wife left Great Britain was "SOCIALIZED MEDICINE OH NOES"
She knows it first hand.
She is TOTALLY and completely opposed to this reactioanry leftist putsch aginst America.
So don't come crying to me when your child or your wife or your mother is dying of some treatable ailment and you can't get the medicine or the thearapy becasue it's rationed.
The Republican plan would start with:
Number one: let families and businesses buy health insurance across state lines.
Number two: allow individuals, small businesses, and trade associations to pool together and acquire health insurance at lower prices, the same way large corporations and labor unions do.
Number three: give states the tools to create their own innovative reforms that lower health care costs.
Number four: end junk lawsuits that contribute to higher health care costs by increasing the number of tests and procedures that physicians sometimes order not because they think it's good medicine, but because they are afraid of being sued.
http://www.gop.gov/solutions/healthcare
Not real hard to let the market fix the problem.
Here's another idea: Rep. PAul Ryan's attempt to refoem medicare.
The fun part is that he exposes the Democrats for the horse's asses that they are:
http://tinyurl.com/yl9neep
"Now THAT'S a slogan!
Can you enthrall us with some more of your incisive commentary?"
Sure, assholio:
FOAD.
"Leftist putsch"?!??? "Climate deniers"?!?? Is this not the Debunker Cult slander in a nutshell? Nah,they wouldn't be trying to lump skeptics of government propaganda in with Nazis and the Holocaust would they? Nah,the Cult is all about breaking things down with evidence and facts.It's just a coincidence that they go around lobbing incendiary grenades into any discussion.
Ah,who was it who said imitation is the sincerest form of flattery?
HOLY SHIT, I thought that post WAS you. Funny.
Anyway, it was Charles Caleb Colton who said that.
No,I am not the blogger using goofy names.
followed immediately with...
in the beginning I did that a bit for fun,but not in months.
So you just... lied.
"Shat Curley" is not my goof.
Yeah, how do we know if you're not lying now? You just did.
Yes,a friend of mine died on the 100th floor.His name was Pat Danahy and I grew up with him and was in classes with his older sisters.
That sucks, dude. I'm sorry for your loss.
I guess that puts you at around 40 years old, then. But I don't understand how come you buy into these ridiculous 9/11 theories.
No,I don't have any problem attracting women and I will kick any debunker's ass up and down Broadway anytime it could be arranged.
And what would that solve? And say you do get a new investigation and it reveals everything the skeptics and debunkers have been saying all along, then what, mr. violent? You gonna kick everyone's ass until the U.S. Government is brought down by films from douches like Dylan Avery?
What's with all the RAGE against someone basically saying "I don't buy a theory that buildings came down with "Magic paint" when there's no evidence that if could be done, and science shows there's no real way it even could be done."
If you're mad about comments posted here because everyone is a cynical smartass... well, look at your own comments.
What is it you really want, Arhoolie? For people here to stop being smug? For people here to be proven wrong? To just beat people up because they disagree with you?
"If you're mad about comments posted here because everyone is a cynical smartass"
A truly rare, exceptional, and profoundly remarkable gem of introspection! We seem to have arrived at the kernel of the matter, and what attracts people to come here and unload.
"Anonymous said...
"If you're mad about comments posted here because everyone is a cynical smartass"
A truly rare, exceptional, and profoundly remarkable gem of introspection! We seem to have arrived at the kernel of the matter, and what attracts people to come here and unload."
I'm here to laugh at the Twoooofers™.
I guess in a way I'm here to laugh at thier "successes" as well.
Billman: "I guess in a way I'm here to laugh at thier "successes" as well."
Me: I see a lot of bitterness, but not much laughter here.
Bilbo,some of my comments aren't being posted lately.Days ago I typed out a response to your deconstruction and it never went up.I didn't realize this until yesterday.That's OK,I'm tired of stomping on "debunker" butt anyway.I haven't lied (nice try though!!) and no,I never said anything about beating people up.No,I'm not 40ish.No,I'm not a Jew hater.I really don't have any rage regarding any of this.I merely thought I was joining in to goof on an insane and deranged circle jerk and fighting fire with fire.The rage seems to emanate from guys like the insane PornBoy and the windy "New York,er".The sheer amount of slanderous and nasty things posted and threaded on this site reveals you to be strangely delusional in whining about anything I've said.I just dig goofing on arrogant saps,and this joint is littered with them.It's amazing what pussies the Debunker Cult are.You give 'em a dose of their own medicine and they collapse into a pile of moldy rags.It's pathetic,really.I have no particular theories and am quite unimpressed with the "Loose Change" films,although the most recent one is pretty good and has devastating and (judging by the freaking out here) so far unrefuted Barry Jennings interview and undebunked dust sample testing.There are a lot more bonafide and muckraking journalists and investigators who you've probably never heard of."Loose Change" is really just compilations of various information.You need to familiarize yourself with the actual "truth" movements more qualified and veteran thinkers,not dudes that hand out fliers or blog at sites or put up videos on the net.Also,get down to Joe's Pizza in the Village and relax a bit.This cult is sapping your spirit.Best,Arhoolie
My life sucks. It really does.
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