Friday, May 21, 2010

Birthers and Truthers: Equally Moronic, But Not Equally Pernicious

Jonah Goldberg wrote yesterday:

As I wrote last year, I find it amazing that the "Birthers" are considered more dangerous and evil than the "Truthers." The Birthers believe that an ambitious man who travelled a lot as a kid has concealed the circumstances of his birth so he could be eligible for the presidency. I don't think they've made their case. And, frankly, I'm not sure I'd want them to at this point. Aside from the horror of a Biden presidency, I for one don't yearn for a constitutional crisis. And while I am sure there are more elaborate and crazier versions of Birtherism, the basic allegation isn't that crazy, at least in the abstract.


He's wrong there; Birtherism is crazy, just as crazy as Trutherism. They have a lot in common, including waving away all evidence that contradicts them as evidence of the coverup.

But I agree that the Truthers are more dangerous and evil than the Birthers, which statement came under attack from Eric Boelert and Kevin Drum (who, to their credit, dismiss the Truthers as "whackjobs (sic) and bombthrowers"):

Compare that to the birthers. It's bad enough that prominent conservative pundits like Rush Limbaugh, Liz Cheney, and Sean Hannity have flirted with the birthers. But what's worse is that birtherism seems to be a perfectly acceptable belief among actual Republican leaders. Sarah Palin thinks it's a question well worth asking. Roy Blunt isn't sure Obama is a citizen. Dick Shelby thinks it's curious that we haven't seen Obama's birth certificate. Michele Bachmann recently showed up at a tea party event and palled around with birther queen Orly Taitz.


I'm in agreement that both the Truthers and the Birthers are crazy. And I'm even in agreement that Birtherism appears to be more widespread among Republicans than Trutherism ever was among rank and file Democrats, and even more acceptable. And I'm appalled at those on the right who've embraced the Birther nuttery.

But for chrissakes, let's not forget the magnitude of the charges. On the one hand, you have a supposed conspiracy involving huge segments of the government, military and other professions in America to kill 3000 people.

And on the other you have a supposed conspiracy of a few people (most dead) to conceal the real circumstances of birth of a man who later grew up and was elected President.

Suppose both theories turned out to be true; which would result in executions? Nobody (well, nobody sane) would suggest the death penalty for those covering up Obama's birth, whereas I'd probably be among those recommending execution for Bush if it were proven to my satisfaction that he ordered or knew in any detail of the impending terrorist attacks.

Let me repeat this: Both conspiracy theories are retarded. Both share Phil Berg, too. But 9-11 Troof is pernicious in a way that the Birther nonsense isn't.

Labels: ,

86 Comments:

At 21 May, 2010 06:17, Blogger Billman said...

One little fact, it wouldn't matter anyway if Obama was born outside the U.S. since his mother was a U.S. Citizen at the time he was born.

 
At 21 May, 2010 07:22, Anonymous troyfromwv said...

Even a Klan leader like myself (just nominated as 2nd Poobah in command of the Southeat Region of the KKK) thinks the Birhter talk is paranoid bullshit.

 
At 21 May, 2010 07:49, Blogger Lazarus Long said...

"Aside from the horror of a Biden presidency...."


[shudders in dread]


Just think, he'd go down in history a President Jar-Jar Biden.

 
At 21 May, 2010 08:15, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I've got to question the statement that Truthers are more dangerous than Birthers.

For every few hundred Truthers who accomplish nothing of value whatsoever, there's going to be one who takes action- and shoots up a Holocaust memorial. Same with the Birthers, and all the other fringe groups. Fringe groups attract the whackos, and give them a reason to kill.

So, how long until some Birther shows up with a gun or a pipe bomb?

 
At 21 May, 2010 08:15, Blogger stew said...

It appears the apple didn't fall far from the tree. Rand Paul has been a guest on you-know-who's radio show.

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/05/paul_has_been_guest_of_conspiracy_theorist_shock_j.php?ref=fpb

 
At 21 May, 2010 08:29, Blogger Dave Kyte said...

I am very liberal person, but have to admit it's possible Obama could have been born in Africa. After all people are born in Africa every day.

True what the birthers are saying is pure loony and you would have to be a gullible dink to believe it. It is within the realm of the possible. Unlike the fairy tale truthers believe. Controlled demolition of three massive buildings, using un-tested techniques, without a trace of detonation devices, none of thousands of workers seeing the set-up of the controlled demolition, no legitimate qualified engineers supporting the hypothesis.

FYI, old Rush had "QUESTIONS" and why the Gulf oil rig blew up. And as we all know questions are just as good as real proof of the proposed conspiracy.

 
At 21 May, 2010 08:32, Anonymous Bikerman said...

Stew - he was a guest months ago, wasn't he? Isn't this ancient news? Oh, and yeah, Little Paul is as much of a fruitloop as his loopy dad. By winning the Repub primary I think he cemented a Dem Senate seat for KY.

 
At 21 May, 2010 08:33, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why did Bush fight against Abdussatar Shaikh from testifying?

 
At 21 May, 2010 08:53, Blogger BG said...

Billman,

If the birthplace of Obama was out of the US, I think the following applies:

http://vlex.com/vid/residing-permanently-automatically-19271768

Was Obama's Father ever naturalized?

 
At 21 May, 2010 08:58, Blogger stew said...

Bikerman: I was merely pointing out that he has been on the radio show three times (according to reports) of a man who has done more to spread trooferism than anyone and also believes the NWO plans to kill off most of the population. In fairness to Paul, perhaps he didn't know the extent of AJ's nuttiness and there is no evidense he's is in any way a troofer.

 
At 21 May, 2010 09:30, Blogger Triterope said...

In fairness to Paul, perhaps he didn't know the extent of AJ's nuttiness

I disagree completely.

If you're going to run for public office, it is your job to be mindful who you associate with. Just ask Van Jones.

Rand Paul's opponents have every right to drag him through the mud over his Alex Jones appearance, because it reflects on his judgment and beliefs.

And by speaking of judgment and beliefs, isn't it revealing that the first Tea Party-approved candidate is an Alex Jones fan and the son of the biggest kook in the government? I told you these people were dangerous.

 
At 21 May, 2010 13:47, Anonymous Arhoolie said...

Hey Paddy,you're going kind of hard on PornBoy with this thread! Easy on the sad sack,hey big guy?! What's even more lunatic is believing the Official Conspiracy Theory for which there is well nigh little or no evidence aside from ridiculous fabrications and transparently absurd propaganda a grade schooler could debunk.Anything on Lt.Col.Anthony Shaffer yet,Debunker Boobs?

 
At 21 May, 2010 14:45, Anonymous Dylan Unsavery said...

Anything on Lt.Col.Anthony Shaffer yet,Debunker Boobs?

Yeah. He's an idiot.

 
At 21 May, 2010 15:41, Blogger GuitarBill said...

The ArseHooligan™ scribbles, "...Anything on Lt.Col.Anthony Shaffer yet,Debunker Boobs?"

You're such an ass, ArseHooligan™.

Wikipedia wrote, "...The DoD IG report on the ABLE DANGER issue in September 2006 did confirm that Mohammed Atta's name was in an Army LIWA database before 9/11, but the DoD IG found that Atta's name being in this database was not relevant as it was found in an Army database. This finding was made despite the fact that the Army LIWA database was the primary source for the ABLE DANGER team's SOCOM database. The name was among hundreds of thousands of others as it represented one node in another terrorists social network. Arresting him without any indication of a crime about to be perpetrated would have been illegal. Further, if every node of every terrorist social network were arrested, millions of innocent people would be in custody. The idea of just having one name and preventing 9/11 because of that is absurd."

Source: Wikipedia: Anthony Shaffer (intelligence officer).

So much for your continued stupidity.

Have a nice day, ArseHooligan™.

 
At 21 May, 2010 16:16, Anonymous Sword of Truth said...

And by speaking of judgment and beliefs, isn't it revealing that the first Tea Party-approved candidate is an Alex Jones fan and the son of the biggest kook in the government? I told you these people were dangerous.

Is it also revealing that one of the top personalities of the tea party, Glenn Beck, has claimed truther scalps driving 9/11 CTers from positions of prominence on both the left and right, has gone to Popular Mechanics for debunkings of conspiracy theories, and has lumped ll 9/11 truthers in with Holocaust Museum killer and pedophile James Von Brunn?

 
At 21 May, 2010 17:09, Blogger Triterope said...

Sword, if that's the best evidence you've got that the Tea Party doesn't embrace kooks, color me unimpressed.

 
At 21 May, 2010 18:15, Anonymous Sword of Truth said...

I asked you a question, Trite. Is it "revealing" or not?

If not, then why? What makes the association with one guy revealing but not another with a decent track record on combatting loons?

 
At 21 May, 2010 18:25, Blogger James B. said...

The same Anthony Shaffer who bailed out of the recent troofer conference in Valley Forge? He is looking to promote himself, but he does not appear to endorse your views.

 
At 21 May, 2010 20:30, Blogger GuitarBill said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

 
At 21 May, 2010 20:37, Blogger angrysoba said...

How anyone can toss an accusation like this around, minus any evidence whatsoever, is beyond me.

They have to do it otherwise the mutant offspring of their searingly intelligent mutant minds (i.e their "theories") would be stillborn.

 
At 21 May, 2010 20:45, Blogger GuitarBill said...

The ArseHooligan™ scribbles, "...Hey Paddy,you're going kind of hard on PornBoy with this thread! Easy on the sad sack,hey big guy?! What's even more lunatic is believing the Official Conspiracy Theory for which there is well nigh little or no evidence aside from ridiculous fabrications and transparently absurd propaganda a grade schooler could debunk."

Sure, whatever you say, ArseHooligan™.

Tell us, don't you claim to reside in New York City? If that's true, then it's safe to assume that you claim to be a citizen of the United States. Correct?

Well, that's news to me, ArseHooligan™.

After all, I was under the impression that you're a citizen of the Persistent State of Lunacy.

My bad.

%^)

And remember, I'm just askin' questions...

 
At 22 May, 2010 04:42, Anonymous sackcloth and ashes said...

GB, Arseholie has also tried to convince me that he lived in the UK for three years in the mid-1990s. He's lying about that as well, just as he did when he posed as 'A Real Veteran'. I'll comment more on Walt's latest efforts at fantasising when I've got the time to go through his rants in detail.

 
At 22 May, 2010 07:02, Blogger ConsDemo said...

In fairness to Paul, perhaps he didn't know the extent of AJ's nuttiness and there is no evidense he's is in any way a troofer.

As far as I can tell, Rand Paul has never said anything to indicate he himself is a twoofer but he knows damn when who he is pandering too. He isn't the first, other politicians, including those on the left pander to extremists. However, that doesn't make it right.


Sword of Truth said..."Is it also revealing that one of the top personalities of the tea party, Glenn Beck, has claimed truther scalps driving 9/11 CTers.."

To the extent the Tea Party has leaders, some may have dissed twooferism. They clearly tolerate them at the grass roots level. I've seen a couple of pictures of tea party events with twoofer banners.

 
At 22 May, 2010 08:43, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Look at SLC's right wing extremist crowd, falling over themselves to apologize for Rand Paul and birthers.

After all, as long as a person or theory is in sync with your ideological belief system, there is no need to play the pseudoskeptic clown routine. Such sudden warmth and compassion! It's heartening!

Hey Laz, please explain to us your climate change conspiracy theory again.

And Pat, please explain how these people are psychopathic killers.

Why the sudden silence?

 
At 22 May, 2010 08:44, Blogger Lazarus Long said...

"...I've seen a couple of pictures of tea party events with twoofer banners."

Which proves....what, exactly?

The one I love is the insane LaRouchites carrying "Obama as Hitler" posters and the entire movement being tarred becasue3 of these freaks showing up. The interesting thing is that LaRoach is a Democrat.

 
At 22 May, 2010 08:47, Blogger Lazarus Long said...

"Anonymous said...
Look at SLC's right wing extremist crowd, falling over themselves to apologize for Rand Paul and birthers."

So, what else is different in your parallel universe?


"After all, as long as a person or theory is in sync with your ideological belief system, there is no need to play the pseudoskeptic clown routine. Such sudden warmth and compassion! It's heartening!"

Wow, the world sure is distorted when you look at it through the lens of insanity.

 
At 22 May, 2010 09:13, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Tell how the world looks through the lens of a climate change conspiracy theorist, Laz!

 
At 22 May, 2010 09:34, Blogger GuitarBill said...

Tell how the world looks through the lens of a con artist and compulsive liar, Anonymous.

 
At 22 May, 2010 09:34, Blogger Lazarus Long said...

"Anonymous said...
Tell how the world looks through the lens of a climate change conspiracy theorist, Laz!"

What are you talking baout?

Are the voices in your head giving you instructions again?

Not only are you insane, you're boring.

 
At 22 May, 2010 09:38, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"What are you talking baout?

Are the voices in your head giving you instructions again?

Not only are you insane, you're boring."

So....you are fully behind the scientific consensus on anthropogenic global warming, right? Just say so...I'll retract my claim. And I won't have to cite all those threads were you admit you are, either.

I think Sideshow Bill's valiant effort to defend his little idiot debunktard brother is cute though. Heh heh.

So, how's your Tea Party astroturfing conspiracy theory coming along, Billy Boy? You do know that it's a conspiracy theory don't you?

 
At 22 May, 2010 09:43, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ha ha ha, you guys are classic...I love threads like this.

The amazing, wonderful two-faced forked tongued doubletalk and desperate straw grasping subterfuge.

Don't trip over each other now!

 
At 22 May, 2010 09:43, Blogger GuitarBill said...

Anonymous prevaricates, "...So, how's your Tea Party astroturfing [SIC] conspiracy theory coming along, Billy Boy? You do know that it's a conspiracy theory don't you?"

No, it's not a conspiracy theory, it's speculation, as I readily admit.

So are you still trying to pass off speculation and opinion from NGOs and the ultra-biased Socialist International as reliable sources?

A fact checker you are not, Anonymous.

Fatuous jerkoff is more like it.

 
At 22 May, 2010 10:11, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"So are you still trying to pass off speculation and opinion from NGOs and the ultra-biased Socialist International as reliable sources?"

Are you still stupid enough to conflate all posts from "Anonymous" with each other?

You mawkish, chintzy, careless, haphazard, laughably deficient bowl of turd. Ha ha ha ha.

 
At 22 May, 2010 10:13, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oh and by the way, Sideshow Bill, you're an anti-tea party conspiracy theorist. LOL

 
At 22 May, 2010 10:15, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oh and PPS: "astroturfing" was written correctly, you malcontent, intellectually inadequate gasbag.

 
At 22 May, 2010 10:22, Blogger GuitarBill said...

Anonymous the insane scribbles, "...Oh and by the way, Sideshow Bill, you're an anti-tea party conspiracy theorist. LOL"

That's rich. And especially so when one considers that you believe William Cooper to be a "reliable source".

Here's a video that tells you all you need to know about that nutter, William Cooper:

Source: YouTube: William Cooper U.F.O cover up lecture 1/10.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Bark at the Moon, Cooper, bark at the Moon.

Careful Anonymous, the aliens are coming to get you.

Lunatic.

 
At 22 May, 2010 10:26, Blogger GuitarBill said...

Anonymous whines, "...You mawkish, chintzy, careless, haphazard, laughably deficient bowl of turd. Ha ha ha ha."

That's all you have, shit-for-brains?

I'm waiting for answers to my questions, cretin.

[4] Then perhaps you can explain why Israel has no record of nuclear weapons testing?

[7] And I'm still waiting for you to answer the question: Show me one nation that signed the NNPT that didn't test their nuclear weapons?

[8] How does a nation test its alleged nuclear arsenal "secretly"? Can you give me an example of ANY nation that's ever pulled that "miracle" off?

[9] So how did Israel manage to test their alleged "nuclear arsenal" without nuclear fallout?

And remember, jackass, speculation and opinion from NGOs and The Socialist International isn't proof--it's a circle jerk

Now get to work, Onan.

 
At 22 May, 2010 11:36, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bill, Bill, Bill, the nuke discussion has been settled. You can't even convince your SLC peeps. Get over it.

Also, you seem to have had trouble reading. Being nuts doesn't void 9/11 prior knowledge. Being a child abuser doesn't either. You could be a lobotomized, frog eating transvestite on meth (like your wife), but if you have prior knowledge of 9/11, that means something's wrong. So really, Sideshow Bill, you can paint Bill Cooper as a loony UFO nut all day long, I agree with you. It's no excuse =)

 
At 22 May, 2010 11:40, Anonymous Anonymous said...

By the way, if you play that guitar the way you talk, my guess is you've never written a song of your own.

Except perhaps for "My life married to a lobotomized frog eating transvestite, part I, II, and III"

 
At 22 May, 2010 12:00, Blogger Lazarus Long said...

"So....you are fully behind the scientific consensus on anthropogenic global warming"

There is no "scientific consensus" on global warming, you retarded marmoset.

And don't make me give you another public spanking like the last time you went off on one of your insane tangents.

'Cause you're insane and boring.

 
At 22 May, 2010 12:01, Blogger Lazarus Long said...

"Are you still stupid enough to conflate all posts from "Anonymous" with each other?"

They're all equally insane, so it doesn't matter.

 
At 22 May, 2010 12:22, Blogger GuitarBill said...

Anonymous tries more underhanded misdirection and scribbles, "...Bill, Bill, Bill, the nuke discussion has been settled. You can't even convince your SLC peeps. Get over it."

That's not an answer, Anonymous.

Again, you haven't settled anything until you answer my questions with FACTS, not speculation from NGOs and opinion from The Socialist International.

Again,

[4] Then perhaps you can explain why Israel has no record of nuclear weapons testing?

[7] And I'm still waiting for you to answer the question: Show me one nation that signed the NNPT that didn't test their nuclear weapons?

[8] How does a nation test its alleged nuclear arsenal "secretly"? Can you give me an example of ANY nation that's ever pulled that "miracle" off?

[9] So how did Israel manage to test their alleged "nuclear arsenal" without nuclear fallout?

Concerning Bill Cooper, you wrote,

"...Delmart 'Mike' Vreeland...In Pat's sick, diseased, dilapidated, ghoulish sophist mind, being a child abuser nullifies prior knowledge of 9/11. Who cares if he's a freak, Pat, so is Alex Jones, and perhaps so is Bill Cooper. But all three knew a 9/11 type attack was imminent, with one having more specific knowledge than the other...What was it again with that argument that if you knew something you'd be killed? Well of those three, one was killed and one is missing."

Source: SLC: Which Side Am I On?.

So, "Wild Bill" Cooper suddenly gains credibility because he "predicted" 9/11? Never mind that he's a raving lunatic, because according to your twisted "logic" he "predicted" 9/11, thus he now qualifies as a "credible source".

Isn't that precisely how your twisted "logic" works, junior?

Mike Vreeland, on the other hand, is a career criminal with a rap sheet longer than your arm.

Source: Man Who Says He Predicted Sept. 11 Attacks Arrested--Michigan Native Wanted On Child Prostitution, Fraud Charges.

From the article we read, "...Delmart Vreeland, 38, of Rochester Hills, was wanted by eight Michigan jurisdictions, including Oakland County, for crimes like fraud and burglary, according to a report in The Daily Oakland Press."

And what does the Canadian Justice system have to say about Delmart Vreeland? Read on...

"...Mr. Vreeland has not produced a single additional piece of evidence that is independent of his own testimony that might allow his assertions and allegations to attain some "air of reality" to them." -- Justice LaForme, 5 March 2002.

"...I find no reliable basis for concluding that the Applicant was in the U.S. Navy, as he alleges." -- Justice Macdonald, 8 February 2002.

"...Mr. Vreeland has not produced a single additional piece of evidence that is independent of his own testimony that might allow his assertions and allegations to attain some "air of reality" to them." -- Justice LaForme, 5 March 2002.

Thus, Vreeland has zero credibility. And you want to site this vermin as a "credible source"?

"...What a maroon." -- Bugs Bunny

So, TroyFromWestVirginia is a terrible person with zero credibility because he disagrees with your idiotic 9/11 conspiracy theory, but Delmart Vreeland--a "man" wanted for child prostitution--is a credible witness in your twisted mind because his crackpot story is in agreement with your cockamamie 9/11 conspiracy theory?

Makes sense to me, junior.

%^)

Sophist.

Hypocrite.

Fatuous dork.

And remember, I'm just askin' questions...

 
At 22 May, 2010 13:12, Anonymous Illuminate said...

The reason birthers are more worrisome is because they are often in positions of power (as someone already pointed out), and also they seem to want to undermine democracy. Don't like the president? Then cook up some ridiculous premise for why his election is "illegitimate" and why you don't have to recognise him as "your" president.

 
At 22 May, 2010 13:42, Blogger GuitarBill said...

Correction. The following paragraph,

Thus, Vreeland has zero credibility. And you want to site this vermin as a "credible source"?

Should read,

Thus, Vreeland has zero credibility. And you want to cite this vermin as a "credible source"?

Sorry. My bad.

 
At 22 May, 2010 14:36, Blogger Billman said...

Well, GuitarBill, by Anonymous's past logic and trolling, that article now proves all troofers are child-prostituion solicitors.. and debunkers are all child abus- oh wait, Troy's been exonerated. Nevermind. Guess it's just the troofers this time.

 
At 22 May, 2010 15:07, Blogger GuitarBill said...

Billman wrote, "...Well, GuitarBill, by Anonymous's past logic and trolling, that article now proves all troofers are child-prostituion solicitors.. and debunkers are all child abus- oh wait, Troy's been exonerated. Nevermind. Guess it's just the troofers this time."

Good points. Well said.

Anonymous can yammer about Troy and make arguments from false equivalence until he's blue in the face, but this patent nonsense will never bring the innocent victims of "9/11 truther" violence back from the dead. Moreover, yammering about Troy does absolutely nothing to prove that 9/11 was an "inside job".

And you're right--he's a troll of the worst kind.

 
At 22 May, 2010 15:18, Blogger GuitarBill said...

FACT: Bill Cooper didn't "predict" anything.

Cooper merely repeated a story he watched on CNN. In fact, a CNN reporter interviewed bin Laden and predicted that Al Qaeda would strike "within three weeks".

Thus, William Cooper didn't predict anything.

"...Supposedly, a CNN reporter found Osama bin Laden, took a television camera crew with him, went into Osama bin Laden's hideout, interviewed him and his top leadership, and he came out and told everybody within three week Osama bin Laden is gonna attack the United States and Israel..." -- William Cooper

Source: YouTube: Bill Cooper "predicts" 9-11.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Clearly, Cooper's own account confirms that the CNN reporter predicted the attacks, not William Cooper.

Any more bullshit for us, Anonymous?

And remember, I'm just askin' questions...

 
At 22 May, 2010 15:36, Blogger GuitarBill said...

And Cooper's "prediction" wasn't particularly accurate. After all, he made his "prediction" in June of 2001. Thus, by his time line, the attack should have occurred in July of 2001. Cooper's "prediction" that Israel would be attacked along with the United States was erroneous as well.

 
At 22 May, 2010 16:07, Blogger Triterope said...

I asked you a question, Trite. Is it "revealing" or not?

If not, then why? What makes the association with one guy revealing but not another with a decent track record on combatting loons?


I think the difference is the word "candidate", a word I used in the first place. I'm far less concerned with a bloviating talk show host than I am with a man who might be in a position to influence legislation.

And your passing off Glenn Beck as the spokeperson for Tea Party movement is a little tenuous. His fan base extends far beyond TPers -- I know quite a few -- while the TP movement itself has many factions and no clearly-defined leadership.

 
At 23 May, 2010 00:42, Anonymous Sword of Truth said...

I think the difference is the word "candidate", a word I used in the first place. I'm far less concerned with a bloviating talk show host than I am with a man who might be in a position to influence legislation.

Except you didn't mention anything about ability to influence legislation, you tried to walk back Rand Pauls psotions to say something about the tea party itself.

And your comment about talk show hosts being unable to influence legislation is naive at best.

So I ask the question again, how are Ron & Rand Paul "revealing" about the tea party but Glenn Beck with his decent (that's "decent", not "stellar" he's done ok but still occaisionally makes cringe-inducing gaffes) record on CT busting not revealing about the tea party?

And your passing off Glenn Beck as the spokeperson for Tea Party movement is a little tenuous.

No it isn't.

Your implicit concession that Beck has done well with regards to CT mongering is noted.

while the TP movement itself has many factions and no clearly-defined leadership.

Yet the actions and statements of ONE GUY can somehow still be revealing of the entire movement... nice logic there, Triterope.

The Tea Party is fast becoming the swiss-army bogeyman of the left. It's all things to everyone and the reasoning used to paint them as a threat is often entirely situational, holding up under the specific circumstances being discussed but not much further.

Kind of like how the vast, nebulous and ill-defined NWO is to Alex Jones and his ilk.

 
At 23 May, 2010 04:54, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Of course, Birthers and Truthers are not necessarily separate categories. Visit http://rense.com/1.mpicons/deesA1.htm for a view into the mind of a guy who's both. He's also pretty concerned about Jews, chemtrails, vaccines, etc...

 
At 23 May, 2010 09:06, Blogger Boris Epstein said...

Pat,

If 9/11 truthers are so insane as you suggest than why would there be no satisfactory models of what went down that day that comply with the official version of theevents (starting with, for instance, a model for the collapse of WTC 7)?

Bonus question: why is it - if 9/11 truthers are completely insane - that for the most part it is only anonymous cowards like yourself who are out there defending the official theory? Most other people - NIST researchers, 9/11 Commissioners, members of the academia - have long ago abandoned the official theory like a rotting corpse... Well, it actually is very much like a rotting corpse in that it is dead and it smells worse and worse with every coming day but I digress.

 
At 23 May, 2010 09:44, Blogger Lazarus Long said...

Bore-ass is back!

Make bail, boris, or are you out on a work release program?

 
At 23 May, 2010 10:45, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Boris, you were exposed as a Zionist schill YEARS ago. We know whose side you're really on. Stop making the rest of us look crazy! 9/11 Truth is gaining steam, the tipping point is literally around the corner because the world is waking up and I'll be damned if I'm going to let a paid traitor like you sabotage it. And use OpenBSD like a man... Ubuntu is for pussies.

 
At 23 May, 2010 11:13, Blogger GuitarBill said...

"...And use OpenBSD like a man... Ubuntu is for pussies."

Real men run Slackware.

 
At 23 May, 2010 11:26, Blogger Boris Epstein said...

Pat and James,

Please indicate if the comment left by "Anonymous" at 10:45 was in fact made by one of you. If that is not the case this may be indicative of hacking into Google or some form of illegal electronic surveillance.

 
At 23 May, 2010 12:01, Anonymous Boston Change for Truth said...

We can confirm that we suspect Boris Epstein is working for the other side. In the few meetings that we've allowed him to come, he's been disruptive and creepy. He's always trying to extract personal information from everyone. He's shown up at several public events (UNINVITED) and has made us look crazy (BECAUSE THAT'S HIS JOB).

Boris is banned from all 911 truth meetings in the region because of his bad behavior.

In any event, he was easy to see through. In other words, he's simply another NWO fail.

 
At 23 May, 2010 13:37, Blogger Lazarus Long said...

"We know whose side you're really on."

He's a twooooofer™.

"Stop making the rest of us look crazy!"

He's yours. baby.

Learn it. love it, live it!


"9/11 Truth is gaining steam"

HAHAHAHAAAAA!!!!!!

Cut it out, man, my stomach hurts from laughing!


HAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!!!

 
At 23 May, 2010 13:52, Blogger Lazarus Long said...

"Please indicate if the comment left by "Anonymous" at 10:45 was in fact made by one of you."

Dear boris, you paranoid russian pussy, it was neither of them.

Now shut up, before you expose your insnaity to the rest of the world.

 
At 23 May, 2010 13:54, Blogger Lazarus Long said...

"We can confirm that we suspect Boris Epstein is working for the other side."

HAHAHAAAAA!!!!

This just keeps getting better and better.

Face it, Boston Change for Truth, boris is you and you are boris.

 
At 23 May, 2010 18:03, Blogger 許冠廷 said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 23 May, 2010 19:12, Blogger Billman said...

Wow. Do people really talk like Boris? He's not joking, is he? He honestly believes Anonymous is some sort of infiltrator?

 
At 23 May, 2010 19:46, Anonymous Rockefeller Rothschild Bush, 33° said...

"Wow. Do people really talk like Boris?"

No, and that's the problem. Boris went over the top, and in so doing, blew his cover as a disinfo agent. Now we'll have to reassign him to chemtrail duty.

 
At 23 May, 2010 22:19, Anonymous stilicho said...

It's been a while since I've dropped in. Have the 'truthers' managed to indict anyone over the 9/11 inside job yet?

Or are they still just getting themselves arrested and/or tasered?

 
At 23 May, 2010 23:02, Blogger Billman said...

Stilicho! No, not yet. But, one shot up the pentagon (not sure if you were here for that), and then recently another one shot his wife and then killed himself, but not before also shooting his daughter in the face. She lived, but last I heard she was still in the hospital.

 
At 23 May, 2010 23:48, Anonymous stilicho said...

As long as they're just shooting themselves then that's no problem. But I do feel very sorry for their families who have to put up with them or become involved in their violent outbursts.

 
At 24 May, 2010 00:35, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey Sideshow Bill, get ready to grab your ankles, homey.

How about a nice little public apology for being such a mendacious, pathologically lying dick. Oh wait, you never will, because you're a pathologically lying dick.

P.S. Troy Sexton bragged about abusing his son on this very fucking blog. You are a child abuse apologist. I have a feeling you're an abusive, domestically violent scumbag as well. That's why you and Troy are friends.

 
At 24 May, 2010 00:37, Anonymous Anonymous said...

(Remember, I'm just providing answers.)

 
At 24 May, 2010 01:54, Blogger GuitarBill said...

Anonymous tries another attempt at misdirection and scribbles, "...Hey Sideshow Bill, get ready to grab your ankles, homey."

That's not an answer, asshole.

Nope. Try again, prevaricator.

[4] Then perhaps you can explain why Israel has no record of nuclear weapons testing?

[7] And I'm still waiting for you to answer the question: Show me one nation that signed the NNPT that didn't test their nuclear weapons?

[8] How does a nation test its alleged nuclear arsenal "secretly"? Can you give me an example of ANY nation that's ever pulled that "miracle" off?

[9] So how did Israel manage to test their alleged "nuclear arsenal" without nuclear fallout?

ANSWER THE QUESTIONS, JACKASS!

Now, get to work, cretin.

 
At 24 May, 2010 02:07, Anonymous Anonymous said...

HAHAHAHA....

Seek professional help, Billy Boy, and this time I really mean it.. =)

 
At 24 May, 2010 08:47, Blogger Billman said...

Troy "bragging" always seemed like trolling for the benefit of fueling your biased attitude towards him, at least to me. But I could be wrong, he could very well have honestly been bragging.

 
At 24 May, 2010 08:56, Blogger Billman said...

Well, GB, in light of this, a new possibilty occurs to me. Israel, apparently, has in fact never tested their weapons. So they have a lot of faith in them. And wow, 35 years at LEAST?

The only reason I can think of why they never tested them is to maintain their ambiguity. But isn't that just, ridiculously stupid on their part? But not an impossible scenario. Just really tragicly retarded.

 
At 24 May, 2010 08:58, Blogger Billman said...

Oh, and this is just speculation. But perhaps, if South Africa ever tested their weapons, then perhaps Israel was there with them. That would kill two birds with one stone, so to speak.

 
At 24 May, 2010 10:15, Blogger GuitarBill said...

Fuck-face prevaricates, "...Seek professional help, Billy Boy, and this time I really mean it.. =)"

That's not an answer, fuck-face.

ANSWER THE GOD DAMNED QUESTIONS, COCKSUCKER:

[4] Then perhaps you can explain why Israel has no record of nuclear weapons testing?

[7] And I'm still waiting for you to answer the question: Show me one nation that signed the NNPT that didn't test their nuclear weapons?

[8] How does a nation test its alleged nuclear arsenal "secretly"? Can you give me an example of ANY nation that's ever pulled that "miracle" off?

[9] So how did Israel manage to test their alleged "nuclear arsenal" without nuclear fallout?

Coward.

Pussy

Mental Midget.

Queer bait.

ANSWER THE FUCKING QUESTIONS.

 
At 24 May, 2010 11:11, Blogger Billman said...

Actually, those are still very good questions. Does this article become hard proof they have weapons? Or just evidence?

I mean, if I offer to sell you Photon Torpedos, it doesn't exactly mean I have them, but I offered to sell you some.

Until we get like, an actual picture of a bomb, I guess there's room for debate.

 
At 24 May, 2010 11:25, Blogger GuitarBill said...

Billman,

It is easy to produce articles from credible sources that verify nuclear arms testing.

For example,

Source: New York Times: North Korea Claims to Conduct 2nd Nuclear Test .

Source: New York Times: China Tests Atomic Bomb, Asks Summit Talk On Ban; Johnson Minimizes Peril.

The United States, Russia, the United Kingdom, France, China, India, Pakistan and North Korea posses nuclear weapons, AND THEIR NUCLEAR TESTING PROGRAMS CAN BE VERIFIED.

Now, I want similar evidence for Israel's alleged "nuclear arms program".

Thus, all Anonymous--or anyone else. for that matter--can produce are articles based on speculation, unsubstantiated allegations and opinion.

Now, I'll say it again: Articles based on speculation, unsubstantiated allegations and opinion ARE NOT EVIDENCE--period.

Now, get to work, Anonymous, because, so far, you've prove absolutely NOTHING.

 
At 25 May, 2010 14:47, Anonymous Billman`s Mom said...

Billy did you even look for a job today?

 
At 26 May, 2010 04:29, Anonymous sock puppet all in your face said...

Hey guitar bill, think you can stop playing with yourself long enough to find out who Mordechai Vanunu is and why Israel threw him in prison for about 20 year?

I’m sure it has nothing at all to do with Israeli nukes since you're sure Israel has no nukes. Please grace us with your intellect and explain his extended detention.

I’ll help with a bit of a head start, Mordechai Vanunu is a former Israeli nuclear technician. who.....

 
At 26 May, 2010 10:17, Anonymous Arhoolie said...

Complete with homosexual slurs,the "Git" persists with his alarmingly ludicrous jihad over a question that any sane person knows was answered ong ago.By Israelis!! Can anyone arrange for the institutionalization of the Yuppie Sap?

 
At 26 May, 2010 12:38, Blogger GuitarBill said...

So ArseHooligan, where's your evidence?

In case you're wondering, your opinion, speculation and unsubstantiated allegations are not evidence.

So when will you produce articles from credible sources that confirm Israel's nuclear arms testing program?

And I want FACTS, ArseHooligan, not opinion, speculation and unsubstantiated allegations.

In fact, I just produced two articles from the New York Times that confirm China and North Korea's nuclear arms testing programs--and it took all of ONE MINUTE to find the articles via Google.

So tell us, ArseHooligan, why can't you produce similar articles with respect to Israel's alleged "nuclear arms testing program"?

I'm waiting for your answers, ArseHooligan.

And remember, shit-for-brains, I'm just askin' questions...

Now get to work, asshole.

 
At 26 May, 2010 12:43, Blogger GuitarBill said...

Sock puppet fuck-face scribbles, "...Hey guitar bill, think you can stop playing with yourself long enough to find out who Mordechai Vanunu is and why Israel threw him in prison for about 20 year?"

Vanunu was convicted for espionage by the Israeli court system and sentenced to prison for his crimes--period. His allegations, moreover, have NEVER BEEN PROVEN.

Again, do troofers understand the difference between FACTS and unsubstantiated allegations?

9/11 troof: Idiots, one and all.

 
At 27 May, 2010 08:41, Anonymous Anonymous #2 said...

"His allegations, moreover, have NEVER BEEN PROVEN."

Not by your arbitrary, mendacious standards, no, but by the standards of the sane world, including the Federation of American Scientists, a source in the United States Defense Department, Henry Kissinger, Seymour Hersh, The Guardian, the Defense Intelligence Agency, whistleblower Vanunu, Wikipedia, and even statements from Israeli presidents.

You can't even bring yourself to admit South Africa had nukes. Your standard of accepting only admitted nuclear tests is yours and yours alone. The rest of the mentally healthy world accepts reliable sources and "extensive evidence" as Wikipedia puts it.

Cheers, Bill.

Get well soon.

 
At 28 May, 2010 01:23, Anonymous sock puppet all up in your face said...

so do we chalk up the israeli nukes question as win for debunkers or truthers, sorry troooophers?

 
At 28 May, 2010 16:52, Blogger Triterope said...

As I've said once already, you can chalk it up under "nobody fucking cares."

 
At 28 May, 2010 20:04, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Whatever helps you sleep at night, Triterope.

 
At 29 May, 2010 12:08, Blogger GuitarBill said...

Anonymous prevaricates, "...Not by your arbitrary, mendacious standards, no, but by the standards of the sane world, including the Federation of American Scientists, a source in the United States Defense Department, Henry Kissinger, Seymour Hersh, The Guardian, the Defense Intelligence Agency, whistleblower Vanunu, Wikipedia, and even statements from Israeli presidents."

And their "evidence" is based on unsubstantiated allegations, speculation and opinion.

SO WHERE ARE YOUR FACTS, JIZZMOP?

You can't win a debate on this subject UNTIL YOU PRODUCE FACTS.

Got it, Jizzmop?

"...You can't even bring yourself to admit South Africa had nukes."

South Africa produced six nuclear weapons in the 1980s, but disassembled them in the early 1990s. However, you have no proof that SA ever tested those weapons. FACT: The Vela Incident has never been confirmed. And yes, I'm aware that SA signed the NNPT in 1991. However, none of this proves that Israel has nuclear weapons.

So, your point is what exactly?

Is this another exercise in dressing up speculation, unsubstantiated allegation and opinion as fact?

"...Your standard of accepting only admitted nuclear tests is yours and yours alone. The rest of the mentally healthy world accepts reliable sources and "extensive evidence" as Wikipedia puts it."

No, my alleged personal "standard" is irrelevant.

I employ the same standards used by any prudent nation to determine who possesses nuclear weapons: Nuclear weapons test data, satellite data, radioactive emissions (fallout), and seismic information.

Moreover, Wikipedia doesn't agree with you. The fact is that Wikipedia uses terms like "widely believed", which is a weasel phrase.

Thus, until you can produce physical evidence of nuclear arms testing by the state of Israel, you're blowing smoke up our collective arse.

Sock puppet fuck-face scribbles, "...so do we chalk up the israeli nukes question as win for debunkers or truthers, sorry troooophers?"

No scat-muncher, I concede absolutely nothing until you produce FATCS. Got it, junior?

So where are your FACTS, jizzmop?

 

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