Saturday, July 15, 2006

Conspiracy Theory Cat Fights

On yesterday's broadcast radio host John Stadtmiller discusses the ongoing internal fights between members of the 9/11 "truth" movement, particularly Eric Hufschmidt (previously discussed here) who gets in a serious tizzy because he doesn't believe the movement is sufficiently anti-Zionist enough. He particularly is upset because the Loose Change boys get more press then he does.

Stadtmiller starts out with an impassioned defense of Karl Schwarz, in which among other things, he explains the reason that the headquarters for Patmos Nanotechnology is nothing more than Karl Schwarz's cell phone, because Karl is too busy running around Europe (apparently in Budapest) selling his technology. OK, apparently all those hundreds of researchers are living in Karl's phone too. He then goes on to defend Schwarz's A-3 Skywarrior theory, based on an article in some far right newspaper called the Idaho Observer.

Then when Hufschmidt comes on he accuses the Loose Change boys of being supported by some shadowy organization, possibly connected to 9/11 Commission member Lee Hamilton or international financier Karl Schwarz.

If you would like to listen yourself, the yelling between Eric and Dylan begins at the 50 minute mark of the first hour. Jason Bermas comes on at the 8 minute mark of the second hour.

At the 17th minute of the second hour Stadtmiller gets in a big argument with a caller named Walt over whether the Jews or the Vatican (or both) control the world, and whether Stalin was a Roman Catholic or a Jew (neither, he studied for the seminary at a Russian Orthodox institution). Wow, what an intellectual conversation.

Then Bermas and him start arguing over the religion of various powerful people, showing once again that the "researcher" of Loose Change buys into just about every theory out there:

Bermas: Let me just say this, I can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that George Bush and his father, although figureheads and middlemen, you know, attend Bohemian Grove and do occult ritual, so that’s all I need to know that they are not Christian.

Walt: You also have guys that are doing child sacrificing in the basement of the Vatican.

John: OK Walt, hold on here a second.

Bermas: Well, I can’t prove that.
Well at least he admits he can't prove the child sacrificing theory. Once again, if the 9/11 "truth" movement supposedly has the facts on their side, then why is it just about everyone connected to the movement is a lying paranoid nutjob? Is this all just an amazing coincidence?


At 15 July, 2006 11:57, Blogger The Artistic Macrophage said...

If it weren't so pathetic, and their movement so dangerous to our society as a whole, I would be on the floor laughing at them.

I will say this. It is not hard to laugh at D.A. and the crowd. Their film is so heavily filled with misquotes, misfacts, speculation and conjecture, that I swear a politician had to write the script for them. If it weren't for the 14y old dialect used in the narration, I'd be convinced it was written by a group of publicists.

Someone needs to put together an independent video that puts forth the reems of real evidence in a clear and concise format, on video...

At 15 July, 2006 12:45, Blogger apathoid said...

I often wonder how these people get so unbelievably effed up in the head.
Is it a genetic thing? A chemical imbalance? The result of years of drug abuse? Being incredibly bored because you have no job and the real world just isnt interesting enough?? Is it a complete failure of logic and reasoning ability? Too much TV clouding the ability to distinguish fact from fiction?
A combination of all or some of these? I wonder.....

The Artistic Macrophage said...
Someone needs to put together an independent video that puts forth the reems of real evidence in a clear and concise format, on video...

I agree, and that Pentagon simulation video was a refreshing change from the usual CT bs. But it really would be a pointless exercise IMO because the CTs will dismiss it as propaganda and carry on....

At 15 July, 2006 13:09, Blogger The Artistic Macrophage said...

You are probably right, although most of the people in the debunking camp have very little to do with the Feds or any affiliation with the "Neo-Cons". I for one am a canadian, who actually voted NDP (our left wing party) in the last election.

As for why the 9/11 CTs act the way they do, I blame some of it on our "Sound Byte" generation. We are the children who grew up on MTV, Headline News, Jerry Springer, and other mind numbing and dumb downing tv shows. D.A. and the crowd are younger still. So they have grown up seeing "cherry picked" bits of info on all topics, and obviously think this is the way facts are to be told.

I feel sad for them actually. Even more, I feel sad for the victims of 9/11 who they will likely taunt, irritate, and annoy at the memorials this year.

At 15 July, 2006 16:52, Blogger CHF said...

I don't know what's funnier about the CTers.

Is it the fact that

A) they're so out to lunch that they can't even agree with eachother half the time


B) if their 9/11 beliefs don't discredit them then their beliefs on a whole host of other issues will.

At 15 July, 2006 18:58, Blogger debunking911 said...

This is what you get when you base your theories on fantasy instead of verifiable facts. You get people fighting over which fantasy is the best.

At 15 July, 2006 19:22, Blogger apathoid said...

Looking at Killtowns smoking gun list earlier, I couldnt get over how incompatable most of the items on that list are with each other. Do CTs even realize they are blowing each other(sometimes themselves) outta the water with all these mutually exclusive theories they latch onto??

At 15 July, 2006 19:28, Blogger shawn said...

You get people fighting over which fantasy is the best.

"My karma ran over your dogma".

At 15 July, 2006 19:30, Blogger Killtown said...

Connect the dots

At 15 July, 2006 19:35, Blogger The Artistic Macrophage said...

read definition of "Smoking Gun". I have, and Now I am off to read you rlist of 200 of them to see all this "indisputable proof" (see dictionary def.)you have.

At 15 July, 2006 19:43, Blogger shawn said...

Killtown doesn't understand Occam's Razor or smoking gun.

At 15 July, 2006 20:10, Blogger The Artistic Macrophage said...

I have gone through about half of them. I went so quickly, because most them I have already read adequate debunking material on. Of those that were new to me, there were some strange co-incidences, but certainly none by themselves were anywhere close to a "smoking Gun". Even the "Lone Gunmen" pilot is a strange and unfortunate foreshadow. Unless, you are insinuating that hollywood is involved in the Grand Royal Conspiracy as well.

Or did the govt or the terrorists just simply borrow the idea and carry it out 5 months later (giving them just enough time to start planting the demolition explosives in the wtc by most experts calculations).

NORADs responsibilities prior to 9/11 were to detect and try to resolve any airbourne threat to N.America from outside its borders. Certainly, the drills they would run would include, among other things, using planes as weapons to crash into landmarks, or heavily populated ares (stadiums, skyscrapers).

I understand that if you "Cherry Pick" things out all the things that went on in the last few years, you can create a picture that looks like a govt plot, but the flaw is in the "Cherry Picking", and then placing these unrelated items together.

As well, many of the dots, contradict or fly in the face of other dots. You can't have dot "A" if makes Dot "H" impossible.

At 15 July, 2006 20:20, Blogger shawn said...

Even the "Lone Gunmen" pilot is a strange and unfortunate foreshadow.

When I was fiften (a year or so before 9/11) I wrote a short story (really a novella) that started with several planes being hijacked. A nuclear bomb was then detonated from a container in New York Harbor (the hijackings being a distraction). The president then used this to attack (which is attributed to al-Qaeda) several Middle Eastern countries, but it turned out the government perpetrated the entire thing. The main character figures it out and tries to alert the populace, but is eliminated at the end of the story.

So I guess I predicted 9/11 and Dylan Avery!

Not to mention in Stephen King's novel The Running Man, a man hijacks a plane and crashes it into a skyscraper.

At 15 July, 2006 20:22, Blogger Avery Dylan said...

Like, hey man, I mean, look at me, just a few years ago I was cleanin up at Friendly's, and look at who I am today:

Al Quaida's alibi!

Bin Ladin's Bitch!

I mean, try and top that!

Nothing to it

At 15 July, 2006 20:23, Blogger undense said...


Abraham Lincoln was elected to Congress in 1846.
John F. Kennedy was elected to Congress in 1946.

Abraham Lincoln was elected President in 1860.
John F. Kennedy was elected President in 1960.

The names Lincoln and Kennedy each contain seven letters.

Both were particularly concerned with civil rights.

Both wives lost their children while living in the White House.

Both Presidents were shot on a Friday.

Both were shot in the head.

Lincoln's secretary, Kennedy, warned him not to go to the theatre.
Kennedy's secretary, Lincoln, warned him not to go to Dallas.

Both were assassinated by Southerners.

Both were succeeded by Southerners.

Both successors were named Johnson.

Andrew Johnson, who succeeded Lincoln, was born in 1808.
Lyndon Johnson, who succeeded Kennedy, was born in 1908.

John Wilkes Booth was born in 1839.
Lee Harvey Oswald was born in 1939.

Both assassins were known by their three names.

Both names are comprised of fifteen letters

Booth ran from the theater and was caught in a warehouse.
Oswald ran from a warehouse and was caught in a theater.

Booth and Oswald were assassinated before their trials.

Woah! There must have been a conspiracy because, like, you know dude, "connect the dots." These can't be just coincidences. Duh!

But if you dig deeper you discover some of the real facts:

It's why your "connect the dots" is pure crap and is nothing even close to evidence. Your claim is shallow, just like the Kennedy/Lincoln stuff.

Get some real evidence. You have none at the moment.

At 15 July, 2006 20:55, Blogger Killtown said...


"You don't have a shred of evidence!"

"That's not evidence!"

"Get some real evidence!"

You OCTs are an amusing bunch. If 9/11 ever gets out this it was an inside job, how will you guys be able to live with yourselves?

I tell you what, why don't you guys call for an independent investigation that is actually independent and actually investigates and if they don't find any evidence of an inside job, then you guys win.


At 15 July, 2006 20:58, Blogger Killtown said...

Oh and about the Lincoln/Kennedy stuff, what would the conspiracy in that be?

Those look more like just a long list of similarities to me.

At 15 July, 2006 20:59, Blogger shawn said...

You OCTs are an amusing bunch. If 9/11 ever gets out this it was an inside job, how will you guys be able to live with yourselves?

Followed by:

Those look more like just a long list of similarities to me.

At 15 July, 2006 21:02, Blogger shawn said...

Oh, and to answer this question:

If 9/11 ever gets out this it was an inside job, how will you guys be able to live with yourselves?

How can you go on living in a fantasy world with zero evidence? The sad thing is, you will continue to mock the dead because nothing will make you realize the truth.

And don't pay the "I won't ever believe?" card. I know nothing will ever get you to know what's real. You're a creationist, nothing more.

At 15 July, 2006 21:05, Blogger The Artistic Macrophage said...

I don't think anyone here would disagree with an Independent investigation. The trouble is, all of the CTs will still be whining and annoyed, because a truely INDEPENDENT investigation, would have to consist of those who are without agenda or bias, so that would count out Jones, Jones, Avery, Bermas, Griffith, and vertually all of the "truth" movement, as they clearly have an agenda and bias.

At 15 July, 2006 21:06, Blogger shawn said...

Killtown, as all of us know (and I think even you, in your heart of hearts, know), a truly independant investigation would come to the same conclusion the government did.

At 15 July, 2006 21:09, Blogger MarkyX said...

Killtown, I can't believe that you used a television episode as 'proof' that 9/11 was a coverup.

I'm a writer, although not a professional one, but I do have some stance in my opinion. Let me tell you something about writers that I am sure you not aware of...

We write crazy shit ALL THE TIME.

Tom Clancy, Stephen King, Joss Whedon, M. Night Shyamalan, JRR Tolkien, and Robert Jordan...

Currently I am writing a fantasy webcomic called Chronicles of Garas that involves lizardman-created giant robot killing off demons...why? Because I like writing that.

And just recently I released a pen and paper post-nuclear roleplaying game called Love The Bomb with a rather interesting timeline background..

2009 - The President of the United States bows down to international and domestic pressure on troops being deployed in hostile foreign soil. Civil violence and assaults on police officers in the United Stated are no longer considered uncommon news by the mainstream media and the tabloids. Radio hosts and book authors blast both the president’s character and policies on a daily basis. The Iraqi Prime Minister declares his hostiles intentions to Iran for supporting the insurgents.

In response to the growing instability of the United States, Saudi Arabia and several other members of OPEC back away from the once almighty US Dollar and set their oil prices exclusively in Euros. Canada cuts off NAFTA and closes its borders to the United States.

Within days, the wealthy citizens and currency exchange brokers cashes in their US Dollars for Euros and Yen. The huge change within the world’s financial were overwhelmed and lost over half its value within a few hours. In several weeks, the result was the worst Depression the world has ever witnessed.

Banks became targets for attacks, racial tensions explode, Muslims are besieged by Christians, and brownouts become an excessive problem. The biggest spark, however, was the failed assassination attempt of the Saudi Arabia’s king, leading the country into martial law and suppression of civil rights.

In late 2009, the North America continent was going through as some might say an ‘economic hell’. The United States, with its huge deficit and negative trade balance, completely destroyed the United States economy. Canada’s job market, relying heavily on the United States, shrinks to nothingness while French Canadians demand separation and Native Americans forcibly claiming more land. Alberta has retreated from the Canadian confederation and becomes its own country.

Sounds far fetched, doesn't it? What if something like this DID happen? Would you call this a coverup and that I had foreknowledge of the scenario?

Just remember that if you say no, then why would say yes to the EXACT same thing on 9/11?

Oh I know the reason, but so does everyone else here..

At 15 July, 2006 21:58, Blogger undense said...

You OCTs are an amusing bunch. If 9/11 ever gets out this it was an inside job, how will you guys be able to live with yourselves?

If that ever happens, we can just adjust our story to fit the facts, the same way you CTs do now. We can just let old claims lapse, as if they were never once major beliefs and gin up new rationale right out of thin air, just like you CTs. Facts be damned, just like you CTs. We'll ignore anything that doesn't fit our story, just like you CTs. We can always make up new facts to fit the story, just like you CTS.

Fortunately, we're not in the position to have to do that and are not likely to be, unlike you CTs.

At 15 July, 2006 22:01, Blogger shawn said...

Hey, didn't the first edition of Loose Change talk about pods and lionize the members of Flight 93?

What happened to all that?

At 16 July, 2006 04:27, Blogger The Artistic Macrophage said...

In the version of "The Truth", D.A. and the boys have decided they didn't like the people of Flight 93 going down (shot down or otherwise), and the pod idea got laughed out by their own people, so...they CHANGED THE TRUTH.

Now, I love this, now the people from all four flights are placed on the same airplane, flight 93, and are wisked a way to beautiful Cleveland, where they are treated to a brief debriefing, and then are taken away somewhere, never to see their families or friends again...

At 16 July, 2006 04:40, Blogger The Artistic Macrophage said...

And with respect to the "Connect The Dots List", If you are going to propose that 9/11 was an inside job, and the Government planned it, then you can't have points 116-135. Those points go on to propose the theory that the Government knew the TERRORISTS were going to commit 9/11, but chose to let it happen. Why would they be concerned about TERRORIST Plots related to 9/11, if they were orchestrating it anyway.

If you want to keep 116-135, then you will lose all the points that say the government PLANNED 9/11 itself.

At 16 July, 2006 08:16, Blogger debunking911 said...

If you move the dots around with lies, half truths and logical fallacies you conspiracy theorist can get whatever picture you want out of them.

At 17 July, 2006 11:28, Blogger Chad said...

This stuff is brilliant.

At 18 July, 2006 14:31, Blogger Pepik said...

I like the way the "connect the dots" starts with the Unocal pipeline... notes that Unocal drops out... and then keeps going. As if to say "We went to all this trouble, were not going to stop claiming it as evidence just because the entire premise behind it disintegrated".

Yes, its the conspiracy that if anyone builds a pipeline in Afghanistan to anwhere, ever, that proves a conspiracy! Why? Because!


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