Saturday, July 08, 2006

Uncle Fetzer's Top Ten Reasons Why There Were No Hijackers

Okay, finally got a chance to watch this through. Fetzer's a nut, which explains why a lot of the Truthers are very uncomfortable with his new visibility as the leader of the 9-11 Truth Cult. Here's his David Letterman-style listing of the top ten reasons why there were no terrorists:

10. Their names do not appear on any passenger manifest.
9. None of them were subject to any autopsy.
8. Five to seven at least have turned up alive.
7. The FBI nevertheless has not revised its list.
6. A special agent of the FBI named Flagg has explained that the FBI knew who the hijackers were almost immediately because a piece of luggage was left behind by Mohammed Atta which included a list of all the names.
5. They could not have flown the planes.
4. Cellphone calls could not have been made.
3. During the trial of Zacharias Moussaoui a tape was introduced which reportedly included discusssions between the passengers on using a drink cart as a battering ram, but the Cockpit Voice Recorder could not have overheard that.
2. The last words attributed to the terrorists on the tape, the last words they said was Allah Akhbar.
1. The last reason is not summarizable easily, but basically Fetzer talks about how Moussaoui confessed to being part of a separate attack on the White House that was intended as an extortion attempt (?) to get some terrorist freed, and that what the government tried Moussaoui for was hiding the 9-11 plot, but he's got the right not to incriminate himself... it doesn't make a lot of sense.

Let's take those from the top, shall we?

10. The manifest list question pops up over and over again. The airlines were asked for lists of victims, which they released. Since the hijackers cannot be considered victims they were left off the list. This actually is something that 9-11 survivors, including April Gallop have requested, from journalists as well:

Don't include terrorists with the victims in the death toll. Separate them.

9. I suspect that of all the people killed on 9/11, the only ones subjected to a real autopsy are those who died in the Pentagon, and perhaps a few, like Father Judge, who were killed prior to the towers collapsing. What was mostly done was identification of the limited remains for return to the families. And so there was no specific need to identify the hijackers (although I'm sure the government retained samples of their DNA).

8. This is the ridiculous factoid that the CTers bring up every time. Some of the hijackers had relatively common names in the Middle East, which resulted in some confusion. Once the names and pictures were released these stories died down in the papers.

7. Answered above.

6. I'll have to research the truth of this statement, but let's remember that a group of 19 people would certainly require a list to keep track of.

5. They could not have flown the planes? Nonsense. The most difficult tasks in piloting are takeoffs and landings, and none of these guys needed to do that.

4. The cellphone calls could not have been made. This is one of the more bizarre bits that the CT crowd clings to, no matter how many times we remind them that Airfones were installed in the planes.

3. We've discussed this "made-up" fact about the overheard conversation regarding using the drink cart as a battering ram on Flight 93.

2. The last words attributed to the terrorists on the tape, the last words they said was Allah Akhbar, but they're supposed to say "There is no god but Allah and Mohammed is his prophet." Maybe true, but it's a matter for the terrorists to take up with their imams.

1. I can't even figure out what Fetzer is getting at with this one.

195 Comments:

At 08 July, 2006 10:50, Blogger apathoid said...

Regarding #5, there is a new "hit piece" up at 911myths written by a 27 year pilot and current Italian airline captain. Oh no! not another expert!

It thoroughly destroys poseur Nila Sagadevens opinion piece: The Impossibility of Flying Heavy Aircraft Without Training

I like this bit at the end:

"Maybe that’s what happened to mr. Sagadevan: he was admitted into a flight deck of an airliner in flight, looked at the outside world, and suddenly had the inspiration: he wrote his article."

I guess Mr.Bernacchia thinks Mr. Sagadeven is a fraud too (I've noticed that he is notably absent in the FAA airman certificate database)

 
At 08 July, 2006 10:57, Blogger default.xbe said...

ill have to find the article but i remember reading somewhere that after identifying all but one of the flight 77 victims the govt had 5 unique dna samples that didnt match any victims familes

 
At 08 July, 2006 11:49, Blogger Avery Dylan said...

Like, hey man, you know, those guys I mean the 19 guys, they were just a bunch of sweeties, like, that got a bad rap. Like they were like just on the plane, and everything, when the pods made those planes fly into the Trade Center.

All those other guys, you know, like the ones that just got arrested, I mean they are just like geting smeared.

 
At 08 July, 2006 12:03, Blogger allan said...

8. This is the ridiculous factoid that the CTers bring up every time. Some of the hijackers had relatively common names in the Middle East, which resulted in some confusion. Once the names and pictures were released these stories died down in the papers.

Not quite. There is the issue of the FBI using photos of people who are very clearly alive.

CNN broadcast a picture of Saeed Alghamdi (alive and flying airplanes in Tunisia). Waleed Alshehri (pilot) saw his picture on CNN. Salem Alhazmi (alive and working at a petrochemical plant in Yanbou, Saudi Arabia) says his picture is being used by the FBI.

Yet the FBI maintains that the photos and names are 100% correct.

That is impossible. (And indeed, in the weeks after the attacks, the FBI said many of the hijackers used stolen IDs. Now, with no change in the evidence, they say the opposite.)

The upshot is that we have absolutely no idea who the hijackers were.

 
At 08 July, 2006 12:42, Blogger shawn said...

Shame a fan of the greatest team on the planet is so ignorant.

CNN broadcast a picture of Saeed Alghamdi (alive and flying airplanes in Tunisia). Waleed Alshehri (pilot) saw his picture on CNN. Salem Alhazmi (alive and working at a petrochemical plant in Yanbou, Saudi Arabia) says his picture is being used by the FBI.

Jeez, you use Waleed, the most obvious case of mistaken identity in the entire story.

There we go

The upshot is that we have absolutely no idea who the hijackers were.

In the words of Lex Luthor: WRONG.

 
At 08 July, 2006 12:46, Blogger shawn said...

hahah you think Huff Post and DU are good sites.

hahahahahahha

 
At 08 July, 2006 13:13, Blogger LT said...

regarding Fetzers claim that American passengers would have beaten hijackers(with boxcutters) into submission.

It's kinda funny how he left the part out about how the hijackers' true threat came with the bluff about the bombs. Sure, its possible that passengers would stand up and fight someone with only a box cutter. I wonder when the last time Fetzer was in that position. Of course, when someone is treatening to detonate a bomb onboard an in-flight airliner, the rules change a little. Oh well, I would expect nothing less from an untruthfull idiot such as Fetzer.

 
At 08 July, 2006 13:19, Blogger Alex said...

You know, I'm trained in all sorts of unarmed combat/CQC, so yeah, I could probably take on a couple guys armed with boxcutters, and do pretty well. But pre-9/11, I would have stayed in my seat too. Why should I place my life on the line, and indanger the lives of others, when there's no immediate danger? It's "heroes" like that who have in the past gotten themselves and other people killed for no reason at all. Put post-9/11? If they're Muslim, I don't care what weapons they claim to have, I'll be out of my seat in 5 seconds flat choking 'em to death with my goddamn shoelaces. 9/11 changed everything.

 
At 08 July, 2006 13:50, Blogger Killtown said...

I challenge any 9/11 debunker to explain away this....


Flight 77's Missing Tail Section

 
At 08 July, 2006 14:01, Blogger Alex said...

Ah, I get it. They flew a 757 into the building (even the site you link quotes witnesses seing it) but before they flew it into the pentagon, they chopped off it's tail.

Yep, makes sense to me! Clear sign of a government coverup.

 
At 08 July, 2006 14:16, Blogger shawn said...

Wow Killtown are you really that stupid?

(Anyone see the laugher of a post where he calls CDI and doesn't use any context whatsoever in an attempt to prove his point? Intellectual dishonesty at its finest.)

 
At 08 July, 2006 14:18, Blogger shawn said...

Also, Killtown, Silverstein didn't work for CDI, now did he?

I like the icon, though, real fitting for a lunatic.

 
At 08 July, 2006 14:20, Blogger shawn said...

IMO, the best evidence (smoking gun) for no 757 is the approach path, the alleged speed and the ground effect-- no way a 757 could have come in so low at that speed at that angle. It's physically impossible.

From a comment on the site you link.

Unfortunately for him it's not physically impossible. In fact, because of physics, it would be buffered by the air underneath it and be able to fly so low.

 
At 08 July, 2006 14:34, Blogger Avery Dylan said...

Like, hey man, I mean, like the answer to things we can't understand is "no way" and like , I mean sometimes we say , "uhhhh, uh" and when we like really mean it we say, like "Common Sense"

Like, I wish I could figure out where a missle came from, but like my man Jason is working on that, and Korey, like he was in the Army, and I mean, he knows how that stuff works.

 
At 08 July, 2006 15:02, Blogger Killtown said...

Shawn said... Wow Killtown are you really that stupid?

Really stupid about what, a 757's huge tail section that is missing?

Btw, on the CDI post, I didn't call them, Jeff from pumpitup.com called them (can't you read?) and yes, I know Larry "Pull it" Silverstein doesn't work for CDI. What's your point?

 
At 08 July, 2006 15:05, Blogger shawn said...

Really stupid about what, a 757's huge tail section that is missing?

First off, why does that matter. It's a red herring. There's a plane missing, everyone on that plane is dead, people saw the plane hit the Pentagon.

I know Larry "Pull it" Silverstein doesn't work for CDI. What's your point?

Because you idiots don't put anything into context. Silverstein obviously meant to evacuate the area around WTC 7 and stop fighting the fires. "Pull it" is firefighterese for evacuating.

 
At 08 July, 2006 15:06, Blogger shawn said...

Oh and how about show a bunch of crashes that are nothing like the Pentagon crash as comparison?

 
At 08 July, 2006 15:07, Blogger apathoid said...

I challenge any 9/11 debunker to explain away this....

Flight 77's Missing Tail Section


First, you explain flight 17's missing tail section

Then explain where Air Midwests missing tail section is

Then tell me where this F-4s tail section went after it hit a concrete wall at 500 mph.

Then, I'll tell you where AA77s tail went.

 
At 08 July, 2006 15:10, Blogger shawn said...

Apathoid, that's obviously all government propaganda.

 
At 08 July, 2006 15:27, Blogger apathoid said...

Apathoid, that's obviously all government propaganda.

Killtown is a "special" kind of CT'er, one that doesnt believe planes(not even drones) hit the WTC. So, apparently to him, hundreds of thousands of eyeballs are government propaganda...

 
At 08 July, 2006 16:02, Blogger dman said...

Hey guys ! Did you see this post
at Littlegreenfootballs where a
clown at Democrats Underground
"proves" a fire could not collapse
the World Trade Center.

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?ry=21421_Hilarious_Lefty_Post_of_the_Day&only

In short Moonbat fool takes a
section of wire fence, puts cement
block on top, sticks couple sheets
of newspaper soaked with lighter
fluid (aka jet fuel), lights it
and waits for fence to collapse

Almost as stupid as say Nesysnc,
or JoanBasil or rest of site trolls

 
At 08 July, 2006 16:11, Blogger JoanBasil said...

Your answers are mostly just your own surmisings. The government, media and official version scientists should be answering these questions rather than you having to surmise an answer. Its ridiculous. Either the names were on the passenger manifests or they weren't but the passenger manifests do exist; they have copies that don't travel with the plane.

The part about FBI finding the piece of luggage has been called the "Rosetta Stone." Another one of those unbelievable coincidences that "Mohammed Atta" left luggage in the rental car that had all the hijackers names on papers inside. Like Ziad Jarrah's farewell letter to his girlfriend of 5 years being misaddressed so that it gets returned to the US and apprehended by the FBI.

Whats not to understand about having a right not to incriminate yourself? Its the 5th amendment. He had a right to remain silent. But in any event the reason the people at that flight school called the FBI about him was that he was asking how much damage a fully fueled 747 could do if it was deliberately slammed into something. What more could he have told the FBI, anyway?

 
At 08 July, 2006 16:12, Blogger JoanBasil said...

dman,
actually the proprietors of this blog have written many nice comments encouraging those of us with different opinions to visit and comment.

 
At 08 July, 2006 16:14, Blogger shawn said...

The part about FBI finding the piece of luggage has been called the "Rosetta Stone." Another one of those unbelievable coincidences that "Mohammed Atta" left luggage in the rental car that had all the hijackers names on papers inside.

I bet Mohammed Atta (no need for scare quotes, child) wasn't too worried about being caught.

 
At 08 July, 2006 16:14, Blogger shawn said...

actually the proprietors of this blog have written many nice comments encouraging those of us with different opinions to visit and comment.

But when you guys continue to post nonsense and debunked points it really doesn't help.

 
At 08 July, 2006 16:14, Blogger Unknown said...

Pat,

I tend to agree with you that Fetzer's reason #1 doesn't support his point that he claims he's supporting (no Hijackers). And, with that example, you are right, I do not think Fetzer is the best person to "lead the charge" of the 9/11 Truth "community".

If I speculate that Fetzer's "job" is to be a discrediting figure, I imagine many of the commenters here will body slam me for making that speculation. Go ahead and slam me, and know that I'm not taking on some imagined role of sorting between the "honest" GSS'ers and the Cointel Pro ones. I don't how one gets a Phd. in Philosophy will such poor ability to follow the rules of logic in making an argument.

Nevertheless, the fact appears to be that Fetzer was awarded the degree.

Fetzer could have made, separate from providing reasons that there may not have been hijackings, a valid point that Moussaousi was treated in an unprescedented way, in terms of what should qualify a defendant for the death penalty. I suppose, not being a lawyer himself, Fetzer steered clear of that. And, not being a lawyer myself, I should probably not try to debate that point here either, even though I think it's a very important issue separate from other details of 9/11.

In the final analysis, the only thing that could redeem Fetzer's behavior in my eyes, would be the eventuality that he got enough people riled up to demand an opening of a real investigation. However, at times, his rhetoric has been more along the lines of "rough justice", where according to one account David Ray Griffin was looking a little uncomfortable in the background while Fetzer was ranting.

The "Denver Conspiracy" guest on Fetzer's radio show (which was reported on this blog) simply adds another piece of evidence to the pile that Fetzer is not someone that any of us, no matter what our concerns, should want to have representing us.

 
At 08 July, 2006 16:17, Blogger shawn said...

If I speculate that Fetzer's "job" is to be a discrediting figure, I imagine many of the commenters here will body slam me for making that speculation. Go ahead and slam me, and know that I'm not taking on some imagined role of sorting between the "honest" GSS'ers and the Cointel Pro ones.

There are no COINTELPRO ones. You folks need to stop hiding behind that shield.

 
At 08 July, 2006 16:35, Blogger Unknown said...

Shawn,

I can't prove that anyone here or elsewhere on the internet, or in public discourse is connected with US Intelligence or Military operations (or any other organized disinfo campaign).

I can say I could write a lengthy article describing personalities, events, web discussions, "truth conventions" etc. etc. and cite details that would lead a reasonable person to conclude that were ulterior motives and active manipulation by organized factions which have resulted in weakening the overall cohesion and effectiveness of efforts to get a fair hearing in front of the Ameican people.

If you don't want to call it Cointel Pro, fine.

 
At 08 July, 2006 16:43, Blogger Unknown said...

redsock,

Your comments worry me. You seem to be defending Fetzer, and the claim that the nineteen hijackers who were "fingered" may not be the "right ones".

Does this mean you think that there were hijackings? (My opinion is that the best available evidence points toward no hijackings on 9/11.)

 
At 08 July, 2006 16:46, Blogger shawn said...

If you don't want to call it Cointel Pro, fine.

COINTELPRO is long gone, but even by what you mean (a disinformation group), you're wrong. You can't keep doing this "oh obviously disinfo agents" when stuff doesn't go your way.

(My opinion is that the best available evidence points toward no hijackings on 9/11.)

Yup, just gotta ignore all the phone calls.

 
At 08 July, 2006 16:56, Blogger apathoid said...

BG, you seem like a fairly reasonable fellow(when not posting about individual 9/11 sub-theories or specifics thereof), so why dont you apply the same level of skepticism you have of Fetzer to the rest of the "Truth" movement?

From the eyes of skeptics, all you guys look alike. We think, for the most part, that Steven Jones is as loony as Fetzer, Fetzer is as loony as Judy Wood, who in turn is as loony as Alex Jones, and so on and so forth...

I am thinking the only reason you take issue with Fetzer is his God complex and and general instability. So, I guess my question is: what do you find so bad about Fetzer that you dont find with others??

 
At 08 July, 2006 17:01, Blogger BoggleHead said...

You'd have to be a conspiracy theorist to suggest that these hijackers' only purpose in the US was to fly planes into buildings.

To do that you'd have to say there's a conspiracy within the United States congress to cover-up 28-pages of the Joint Inquiry into 9/11 Intelligence Failures that shows that Saudi Arabia---a US ally---actually constitute the only known support network within the US for the people who did 9/11.

 
At 08 July, 2006 17:24, Blogger Unknown said...

apathoid said..,

"From the eyes of skeptics, all you guys look alike"

There is so much material, apathoid, that there is to review. With the comments you make, I find it hard to believe you have reviewed key items.

For example, Could I ask you to read David Ray Griffin's book: 9/11 Commission: Ommission and Distortions?

I will send you a copy if you email me at biil.giltner at gmail.com. (Sorry I don't have a supply and I'm not rich, so I can't make this offer to anyone else.).

If you don't want to read it, go to amazon and read the reviews.

Also read the reviews (or buy the book) "9/11 Synthetic Terror, Made in the USA", by Webster Tarpley. Even if you find these books unconvincing, it would, I think, give you more info that you currently possess why reasonable people can be GSS'ers.

I was deep into this subject area way before Loose Change came out. As a movie, it's not nearly as bad and Fahrenheit 9/11 in it's manipulation, but I agree we should take it as a video with a point of view, and it takes liberties to advocate that point of view. I wouldn't say to anyone: "this movie proves 9/11 was ... (fill in the blank.)

I'm not one who says the Northwoods document proves anything. The existence of the PNAC and it's documents don't "prove" anything.

I want proof based on forenics, and investigation by untainted actors, who have the the experience and expertise in the areas required. I understand that we don't live in a perfect world and never will. However,there is so many reasons to believe there has been a coverup, it is the moral duty of everyone to demand a real investigation.

I don't enjoy being called a nut. I don't enjoy trading insults. I'm commenting here because of a fundamental belief in our Republic. I believe it is endangered by lies that undermine its foundations.

 
At 08 July, 2006 17:27, Blogger Unknown said...

Might as well correct my email: bill.giltner at gmail.com

Please don't spam or flame me.

 
At 08 July, 2006 18:05, Blogger apathoid said...

There is so much material, apathoid, that there is to review. With the comments you make, I find it hard to believe you have reviewed key items.

I have reviewed it BG, you have nothing of substance. Nothing. Zero. Nada. Everything you bring to the table here his been thoroughly debunked. Your standard of evidence is scary, and I fear for anyone who may need you to help prove their innocence if you're ever called to serve on a jury..
I asked you in another thread to provide your very best evidence that "no-planes" hit the Towers. Anything at all that might explain why hundreds of thousands saw a plane with their own two eyes. Your reply? [Crickets]. I also pointed out yesterday(?) how the blog you cited about zombie-planes was poorly researched and provided examples. Your reply? [more crickets]. Awhile back I asked you to hypothetically tell me how you'd plant a stout 1200 lb piece of steel at a crash scene. Your reply? "They did some good planning"...I could go on BG.

I don't enjoy being called a nut. I don't enjoy trading insults. I'm commenting here because of a fundamental belief in our Republic. I believe it is endangered by lies that undermine its foundations

Sorry for the insult(though I thought I disguised it nicely), I am just coming here from the LC forums where I witnessed a full-on 9/11 grave pissing contest.
I call em as I see em BG. I think youre every bit as delusional as Fetzer and anyone else in the movement(dude - you dont think planes hit the WTC!). I am in no way challenging your right to speak up, at all. But, everytime I catch you post something thats been debunked thoroughly and completely - I will call you on it.

And you didnt answer my question, so here it is again: What do you find so bad about Fetzer that you dont find with others??

 
At 08 July, 2006 18:17, Blogger apathoid said...

I want proof based on forenics, and investigation by untainted actors, who have the the experience and expertise in the areas required.

Namely who? Give examples...

However,there is so many reasons to believe there has been a coverup, it is the moral duty of everyone to demand a real investigation.

I said it before(as well as pretty much everyone else here) and I'll say it it: You wont be happy with an investigation unless it concludes government complicity.

 
At 08 July, 2006 18:21, Blogger BoggleHead said...

In fact can anybody name anybody who is NOT a known representative of Saudi Arabia who funded the hijackers?

 
At 08 July, 2006 18:27, Blogger apathoid said...

In fact can anybody name anybody who is NOT a known representative of Saudi Arabia who funded the hijackers?

I dont know exactly what you're looking for here Boggs?!
Heres my take: Saudi Arabia = Bad. Saudi Arabia = Terror supporting regime. Is that satisfactory?

 
At 08 July, 2006 18:38, Blogger CHF said...

For crying out loud, the hijacker story is an easy one to prove.

If they're still alive then by all means FIND THEM!

Why don't CTers ever make this effort if they honestly believe they're still alive?

 
At 08 July, 2006 18:41, Blogger Unknown said...

apathoid said..

what's so bad about Fetzer.

If you listen to the audio of Fetzer on Alan Colmes radio show, you'll see. It was linked and discussed here. Fetzer was rude to callers, and laughed is a snide way at them. It's not the way to win friends and influent people. He was rude to Colmes.

Also, even when I called in about 9/11 to Fetzer, I was talking about stuff that happened on 9/11, 9/12, WTC collapse explanations and such.

After Fetzer told me what a great call mine was, he went on for 2 or 3 minutes talking about how 9/11 events could be compared to Wellstone's tragic plane crash.

There's nothing inherently wrong with this shift. However, if you are in front of an audience that is going to be skeptical of any claim that there was foul play with Wellstone's crash, the last thing you want to do is related questions about 9/11 with details that the average person is going to find laughably incredible about other subjects.

For examples of GSS'ers who don't act like Fetzer, there are: Hopsicker, Griffin, Steven E. Jones.

By the way, Hopsicker doesn't agree on 1/10 of the probable details of 9/11 with what I believe, but he has done investigation and mainly sticks to what he have looked into in-depth personally.

 
At 08 July, 2006 18:44, Blogger BoggleHead said...

I dont know exactly what you're looking for here Boggs?!
Heres my take: Saudi Arabia = Bad. Saudi Arabia = Terror supporting regime. Is that satisfactory?


Of course it's not satisfactory. I want the government to admit it lied about who the support network for the hijackers really was.

 
At 08 July, 2006 18:46, Blogger Unknown said...

chf,

Just to be clear about the hijacker story, and my particular skepticism:

My contention is that 19 males with real identities may have been on planes during 9/11. The pure doubt about what happened in whether those individuals labeled hijackers had anything to do with the flight controls of the planes or the crimes scenes where lives were lost.

 
At 08 July, 2006 18:47, Blogger BoggleHead said...

Saudi Arabia....

Did they or did they not do 9/11 according to the OS?

Is it a conspiracy of al Qaeda and Saudi Arabia, or is it just Saudi Arabia?

If you think it's a conspiracy between al Qaeda and Saudi Arabia, be advised that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Just defining the 19 hijackers as al Qaeda won't do it either, since their only known support network financially appears to be Saudi Arabia---it would be more in keeping with the Saudi Arabia MIHOP hypothesis that appears to be the only viable thesis being purveyed these days by supposed OSers when I bring up this issue.

 
At 08 July, 2006 18:51, Blogger BoggleHead said...

Apathoid,

Do you admit Saudi Arabia did 9/11?

If so, what's to stop them from doing it again?

Signed,

BoggleHead

 
At 08 July, 2006 18:57, Blogger apathoid said...

I agree with you 100% about Fetzer, bg.

I just wish you'd apply the same standards for everyone that you do with Fetzer, as well as take everything you get from CT "leadership" with a healthy dose of salt.

I'm sorry if I offended you earlier. I usually steer clear from ad-homs and insults. My ire was more or less directed at the movement(LC forum specifically) in general and not you personally....

 
At 08 July, 2006 18:58, Blogger Unknown said...

apathoid asked,

Namely who? Give examples...

The list of authorities that have jurisdiction is, I think:

Local prosecutors, State AG's, US Justice Dept. (including FBI), Military Investigators (Pentagon), Congress.

Any of the above that would initiate any reopenning of investigation activities would have to have political support on some sort. It would be reasonable if a significant number of victim's family members supported futher investigation as well as MSM. With respect to the MSM: as an example, if any of you follow Lou Dobbs on the immigration issue, he is clearly holding the administration's feet to the fire on that issue.

I know that with the current political climate in Wash. , the chances are slim to none of anything positive happenning.

Some had hopes of Elliot Spitzer undertaking an investigation, and have petitioned him. If I were in his shoes, I'd duck too.

 
At 08 July, 2006 19:05, Blogger Unknown said...

apathoid,

By the way, when I complained about being insulted, I was talking about the generic crap.

My complaint wasn't directed at you, but I appreciate the conciliatory tone never the less.

 
At 08 July, 2006 19:09, Blogger BoggleHead said...

bg,

are you aware of hopsicker's research that shows the alleged terrorists were sponsored by saudi arabia so that even if you believe these were hijackings, there's still a conspiracy to cover-up saudi arabia's role

for example by redacting 28 pages from the Joint Inquiry investigation into 9/11 Intelligence Failures that describes this role?

 
At 08 July, 2006 19:10, Blogger apathoid said...

Do you admit Saudi Arabia did 9/11?

If so, what's to stop them from doing it again


I believe Saudi Arabia "did" 78.9% of 9/11. I believe the AQ frontman is Saudi Arabian. I believe Saudi Arabia is possibly one of the worst countries on the face of the Earth(apologies to Sudan and DPRK).

What you need to prove, Bogglehead, is how Saudi governmental complicity proves US government complicty and please leave out youre drug running fantasy...

 
At 08 July, 2006 19:13, Blogger BoggleHead said...

I just asked you how you would keep America safe from 78.9% of the next attack in my city.

And you think I need to show you something.

 
At 08 July, 2006 19:23, Blogger apathoid said...

Local prosecutors, State AG's, US Justice Dept. (including FBI), Military Investigators (Pentagon), Congress.

I know that with the current political climate in Wash. , the chances are slim to none of anything positive happenning.


We will have to simply disagree here. I believe a thorough investigation was done, possibly including some of the folks you cited(I could be wrong). Sure, it wasnt perfect as you well know, but that shouldnt arouse suspicion.

if any of you follow Lou Dobbs on the immigration issue, he is clearly holding the administration's feet to the fire on that issue.

Well, that's good example of how the MSM certainly isnt controlled by the govt as some CTs( GSSs if you like) allege. I agree 100% here too on immigration, in fact I'm no friend of the Bush admin and I'm not even Republican(I have friends who call me a treehugger)!

My complaint wasn't directed at you, but I appreciate the conciliatory tone never the less.

:)

 
At 08 July, 2006 19:24, Blogger apathoid said...

And you think I need to show you something.

Please dont!

 
At 08 July, 2006 19:31, Blogger BoggleHead said...

Okay so let me get this straight.

Saudi Arabia attacks the US.

80% of the american public thinks Iraq has something to do with it.

The US attacks Iraq.

Why doesn't Saudi Arabia figure in beyond just the initial attacking-the-US-on-9/11 phase?

 
At 08 July, 2006 19:52, Blogger apathoid said...

Bogglehead, in case you are wanting to write another 15 mouse-scroll essay, allow me to save you the trouble - I wont read it and I wont reply to it. I have read your arguments and I know where you stand. Let me reiterate my stance:

Saudi Arabia = Bad.

and add...

Saudi Arabia is our friend whom we depend on for energy, so its no big suprise we didnt rock the boat with them.

This is not suspicious. Its politics and I depise it....

 
At 08 July, 2006 19:54, Blogger undense said...

Okay so let me get this straight.

Saudi Arabia attacks the US.

80% of the american public thinks Iraq has something to do with it.

The US attacks Iraq.

Why doesn't Saudi Arabia figure in beyond just the initial attacking-the-US-on-9/11 phase?


Well there's your problem. You still don't have it straight. Keep trying.

 
At 08 July, 2006 20:06, Blogger Unknown said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 08 July, 2006 20:12, Blogger Unknown said...

apathoid,

Your distortions are out of bounds. I hesitate to respond to your outrageous mis-representations with respect to the Pentagon

For example, the 1200 lbs Pentagon thingy pictured.... You are misrepresenting what I said. Furthermore, you are conveniently leaving out that you have absolutely no proof that the object pictured weighed 100 lbs or 1200lbs. There's nothing except an uncredited picture, and that fact that you and others may allege matches to the airplane component of the alleged plane. I looked at the related web site and details. It interesting. In isolation, your case seems plausable. I don't know. I do know you are way over the top with your certainty. It can't be justified unless you have access to information that the rest of us don't.

It's a shame when people overstate the strength of their arguments: it just esculates the disconnect.

 
At 08 July, 2006 20:34, Blogger shawn said...

I already explained this to bogglehead on the SLC forums and he falls under the ought-is problem.

He always ignores the black gold Saudi Arabia supplies us. Personally, I want the Kingdom eradicated and would've been my first target after Afghanistan.

 
At 08 July, 2006 21:00, Blogger telescopemerc said...

Okay so let me get this straight.

Saudi Arabia attacks the US.


No, some citizens from S.A. attack the US.

By your standards, Canada should have counterattacked the USA due to Fenian Brotherhood.

The US put up with bullshit and terrorist support by S.A. citizens because trying to force the issue withou any major incidents would have likely made matters much worse. In fact Al Queda was a lovely example of how forcing matters on S.A. made things involving radical Muslims worse.

Post 9-11, it was no longer a mettera of a few bombers here and there and a few attacks on Isreal. It was their children murdering thousands of Americans each.

We put down the screwd pretty hard on Suadi Arabia.

They are no liberal democracy bvy ANy means, bu they've come mighty far. Women there are actuall able to wear jeans. That may not sound like much to you, but it is very radical to the Saudis.

Read the recent article in Smithsonian and realise how far that backwater oil source has come in the past five years. They've done more liberalization than any other Arabian nation in the past 100 years.

Why? because the USA proved to their level of satisfaction that their fuckwit lifestyle had produced 15 assholes who would commit the slaughter of 9-11.

 
At 08 July, 2006 21:02, Blogger shawn said...

C'mon, tele, don't you know it's all about drugs?

 
At 08 July, 2006 21:21, Blogger BoggleHead said...

No, some citizens from S.A. attack the US.

You don't appear aware that the Saudi government financed the hijackers

 
At 08 July, 2006 21:25, Blogger BoggleHead said...

Did Canada ever do anything like this?

August 4, 2003
The Honorable John Ashcroft
United States Department of Justice
950 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20530

Dear Attorney General Ashcroft:

It has come to my attention that Omar al-Bayoumi and the Saudi government have laid out several conditions that must be met before allowing his interrogation by American law enforcement officials. I am writing to request that the Justice Department provide al-Bayoumi no special treatment when probing his relationship with the 9-11 hijackers and the Saudi regime.

As you are aware, the Joint Inquiry into Intelligence Community Activities Before and After the Terrorist Attacks of September 2001 uncovered several leads suggesting several links between al-Bayoumi and 9-11 hijackers Khlaid Almihdhar and Nawaf Alhazmi, as well as
al Qaeda associates and Saudi government officials. While I am pleased that the Justice Department is seeking to question al-Bayoumi in light of this new evidence, the current circumstances under which the planned interrogation is to take place are unacceptable.

Both al-Bayoumi and Saudi officials have indicated that he will only speak with American law enforcement officials under two conditions: that the interrogation take place in Saudi Arabia and that Saudi officials be present during the proceedings. Accepting these conditions, especially since al-Bayoumi appears to be a conduit through which Saudi officials were involved in 9-11, would show that the Bush Administration continues to coddle the Saudi regime about its links to terrorism.

As should be the case in all of our dealings with the Saudis, the terms of our discussions with al-Bayoumi must be determined by one simple factor: our national interest. Interrogating him in Saudi Arabia with Saudi minders present, while palatable to the Saudis, is not in the interest of the American people. His gatekeepers will be able to interfere in the questioning at any time and intimidate al-Bayoumi from answering honestly. If we are to successfully determine the extent of Saudi Arabia’s involvement in the attacks, the al-Bayoumi interrogation must take place under conditions that Americans law enforcement officials deem to be the most likely to lead to the truth.

The Saudis themselves should have no problem embracing these conditions if they are truly our partners in the war on terror and, as Prince Bandar, the Saudi Ambassador to the United States, has clearly stated,“Saudi Arabia has nothing to hide.” Accordingly, I strongly urge you to ensure that law enforcement officials interrogate al-Bayoumi in the same manner and under the same conditions as they have other people associated with the September 11th attacks.

Sincerely,
Charles Schumer
U.S. Senator

 
At 08 July, 2006 21:29, Blogger BoggleHead said...

telescopemere,

Omar al Bayoumi is a Saudi spy who came in from the cold after financing the only two known al Qaeda hijackers prior to 9/11....

...and you damn well know it.

Signed,

BoggleHead

 
At 09 July, 2006 00:34, Blogger Billythekid said...

"I challenge any 9/11 debunker to explain away this....Flight 77's Missing Tail Section"

It's amazing how all CTs turn into real airplane crash experts. They almost expect when planes hit the ground, the aircraft's fuselage is tipped down and its tail in the air. Bit like this: http://www.antiquephotos.com/catalog/images/products/bwp3538.jpg

Good review here:

http://www.911review.com/errors/pentagon/crashdebris.html

 
At 09 July, 2006 00:56, Blogger Killtown said...

Shawn said... First off, why does that matter.

Why does that matter??? Because large sections of a plane just don't disappear without a trace.

Because you idiots don't put anything into context. Silverstein obviously meant to evacuate the area around WTC 7 and stop fighting the fires. "Pull it" is firefighterese for evacuating.

1) why would a Fire Chief need permission from a landlord to pull out his/her men/women???

2) why would a Fire Chief ask the landlord to pull it out the firefighters...wait, that doesn't even sound right! Pull "them" out when there were no firefighters to pull "out" when he allegedly recieved that call?

3) "pull it" means "pull it down." Just ask CDI.

 
At 09 July, 2006 00:58, Blogger Killtown said...

apathoid said... First, you explain flight 17's missing tail section

Why? I asked YOU first. It's rude to side-step questions.

 
At 09 July, 2006 01:04, Blogger Killtown said...

Billy said...
It's amazing how all CTs turn into real airplane crash experts.

Good review here:
http://www.911review.com/errors/pentagon/crashdebris.html


Yes, I agree...

"The Pentagon crash pictured holes in the facade large enough to admit into the building the entire aircraft except the outermost wing and tail sections"

So, where did the tail section go? What happened to it?

 
At 09 July, 2006 04:50, Blogger shawn said...

Why does that matter??? Because large sections of a plane just don't disappear without a trace.

Ok, Killtown, since you didn't get it the first time.

The plane is gone. The passengers are gone. All the witnesses saw the plane (one seeing a small plane). We have the popped out lightpoles (which precludes a missle). We have pictures of debris on the law, the engine and wheels inside the building. A missle or smaller aircraft couldn't have done as much damage as was done.

What you're doing is using a logical fallacy called a red herring. You point out one thing that doesn't really matter.

Why? I asked YOU first. It's rude to side-step questions.

He was pointing out how you showed a bunch of pictures with tail sections, and then he showed you a bunch of pictures of crashes where they disappeared. Your original insinuation with the pictures was that its odd that parts would disintegrate/burn up/what have you.

 
At 09 July, 2006 04:52, Blogger shawn said...

How you people continually fail to grasp this stuff is beyond me.

 
At 09 July, 2006 04:58, Blogger MarkyX said...

It shredded into dust, just like all THIN parts of the plane (aka the wings). The weakest part of the plane don't survive an impact with reinforced concrete.

Please don't tell me you are saying that the tail section is just as strong as the fuelsage.

 
At 09 July, 2006 06:11, Blogger telescopemerc said...

1) why would a Fire Chief need permission from a landlord to pull out his/her men/women???

If you think that any skyscraper fire is going to be fought or not fought without discussing things with the owner/landlord, as well as several relevant engineers, plus some departments, then you obviously have no concept of urban real estate.

 
At 09 July, 2006 07:43, Blogger Dutch reader said...

A comment from the Netherlands here:

-Why does this film, "screw" only give "some" comments to Loose Change?

-Where did U get all the evidence, disprooving the "so called" thruth in Loose Change?

-Why not let someone believe?

Your new version, only is asking more questions.

-Why are all these questions not awnsered in the 9/11 (warren)Commission?

-When people have more questions than awnsers, an investigation should be done over, and over again.

-I see the media as my fear. When a story can't be set straight, they deny the story @ the present time in the USA.

-I hate your politics, creating a worldwide We - They feeling.

-Thanks for that! Nice to see your freedom slink every 4th of July. Do you want that?

 
At 09 July, 2006 07:59, Blogger Avery Dylan said...

-Thanks for that! Nice to see your freedom slink every 4th of July. Do you want that? -

Like hey man, I was like going to ask Theo van Gogh that, but I can't see, to reach him.

Do you know where I can find him?

 
At 09 July, 2006 08:03, Blogger Alex said...

-Why does this film, "screw" only give "some" comments to Loose Change?

Eh?

-Where did U get all the evidence, disprooving the "so called" thruth in Loose Change?

9/11 Comission Report, FEMA report, NIST report, expert analysis and testemony, etc. Basicaly the exact opposite of where the authors of Loose Change got their evidence (which would be guesses, conjecture and analysis by non-experts and lunatics).

-Why not let someone believe?

Beleive whatever you want. I have no problem with you being a delusional fool. But I do have a problem with letting people try and brainwash people into beleiving that the US is an evil empire intent on ruling the world.

Your new version, only is asking more questions.

Like?

-Why are all these questions not awnsered in the 9/11 (warren)Commission?

For the most part, they are. Any of your questions which aren't answered are too silly for them to address. It's not the responsibility of the 9/11 comission to try and explain to you why only lunatics would beleive in the idea that the WTC was a "controlled demolition".

-When people have more questions than awnsers, an investigation should be done over, and over again.

Bullshit. Those investigations weren't done for your beneift, any more than the investigations in a murder trial are done for your benefit. In the case of a murder trial, investigations are done to in order to convince a prosecutor to lay charges. What you, sitting at home, might think of the evidence is irrelevant. Similarily, in the case of 9/11, investigations were conducted in order to generate a report for the federal government, and for various safety and emergency managment agencies of the government, as well as for the national standards council. The purpose of these investigations was to generate an accurate timeline of events, and present the details in such a manner as to allow for the improvement of national security measures (airline security in particular), and building code/engineering standards. The reports certainly weren't intended to convince a bunch of Conspiracy Theory fruitcakes of anything.

-I see the media as my fear. When a story can't be set straight, they deny the story @ the present time in the USA.

You got that right! Except, unfortiunately, European media is 10 times worse. PRAVDA still claims that the moon landing was faked, and The Globe regularily accuses the US of human rights abuses and rarely publishes a retraction when it turns out they were wrong. Todays Mass media in general, regaurdless of nationality, is totaly fucked.

-I hate your politics, creating a worldwide We - They feeling.

See, if you get that feeling, then you're the one causing it. You can't blame someone else for making you feel a certain way. You're the only one responsible for your feelings and emotions.

-Thanks for that! Nice to see your freedom slink every 4th of July. Do you want that?

Eh? Have you BEEN to the US? I go there once a year at least. Loss of freedom my ass. I feel more free there than I do here in Canada.

 
At 09 July, 2006 08:04, Blogger Unknown said...

About 27 minutes into the most recent "Louder than Words" production of a Loose Change Sequel (prepared for the Chicago Conf.) there is an interview/monologue with Fetzer.

I had earlier in this thread speculated about Fetzer and whether his behavior is intended to discredit the 9/11 truth movement.

I tend to think, based on this linked presentation, that Fetzer is more of a loose cannon at times rather than a disinfo agent.

 
At 09 July, 2006 08:08, Blogger Dutch reader said...

Maybe he has a new number.
Maybe he is dead now.

Without an HONEST investigation you can not know the truth.

Many people try to make fun of others.

That's mostly, because they don't want to understand the situation.

In Theo we trusted.
Theo died because of your foreign politics.

Now disproove me on that. Or start to think a little less:
For Bush, country and core.
Probably said it wrong again, but hey i'm an ignorant dutchy!

 
At 09 July, 2006 08:17, Blogger Dutch reader said...

This is where your freedom goes to:

-Why not let someone believe?

Beleive whatever you want. I have no problem with you being a delusional fool. But I do have a problem with letting people try and brainwash people into beleiving that the US is an evil empire intent on ruling the world.

Within minutes after posting, i'm the "fool", i seemed to make up an evil empire.

People, like Killtown, who really DO seem to matter, presenting a timeline of all events occuring is also a "fool" for believing otherwise.

The evil u mentioned, is only visuable by indeed a murder on like Theo van Gogh.
Is that what we (dutchies) created ourselves?

The We against Them feeling.

Wow. No evil worldwide u say?

 
At 09 July, 2006 08:21, Blogger JPSlovjanski said...

About Saudi complicity. It is true that wealthy Saudis, perhaps some in the Royalty, donate funds that wind up in the hands of people with ties to Al Qaeda. They do this to "cover their ass" from radical jihadists. They have been trying to play a double game of pleasing the West while keeping the fundamentalist happy ever since the 70s(The detailed history of this is covered in Through Our Enemies Eyes).

That does not mean that they would deliberately try to harm their real support, the US government. However, the Saudi regime does pose a danger to much of the wolrd because of its power, and the methods by which it continually enrages its own people with two-faced actions.

More importantly, it has been claimed that unlike people such as Bin Laden, the Saudi Royals DO have expansionist dreams for Islam, and they have the legitimacy and power to make these things a reality.

 
At 09 July, 2006 08:21, Blogger Avery Dylan said...

Like hey man, Theo was a civilized man from the 20th century, who met a jealous man with a knife from the 7th Century.

Same with the WTC - it met 10 jealous men from the 7th century, in 2 - 20th century airplanes.

Just ask questions forever, and never listen to the answers.

 
At 09 July, 2006 08:24, Blogger Billythekid said...

Why would Flight 77's tail section or any other part have survived when all we can see on the Pentagon videotape, released a couple of weeks ago, is a big ball of fire? A few witnesses even claim they could see the tail sticking out of the building for about one or two seconds before a very heavy explosion engulfed everything in flames.

 
At 09 July, 2006 08:27, Blogger Alex said...

I'm sorry Dutch-man, but I can't understand most of what you're saying. The only thing I can get out of your blathering is that you blame the US for Theo's death. Which is idiotic. The only people to blame for his death, and for the 9/11 attacks, are the Muslim fanatics who carried out those acts, and the Imaams who preach hatred for non-muslims.

I know you're trying to speak english, but your sentences just aren't making sence. Which isn't surprising - even the CT'ers who live in the US rarely make sense, so it's no wonder that I wouldn't understand someone who's nuts AND has a bit of a language barrier.

 
At 09 July, 2006 08:30, Blogger Dutch reader said...

Tehoritically they couldn't have met, when U saying:

"Like hey man, Theo was a civilized man from the 20th century, who met a jealous man with a knife from the 7th Century.

Same with the WTC - it met 10 jealous men from the 7th century, in 2 - 20th century airplanes.

Just ask questions forever, and never listen to the answers."


By the way, Theo was from the 21st century.

See where your points are directed?
It's all dust again. Numerous dust clouds.

But hey man.
Who am i trying to convince you, that man in jail, prosecuted for murder, came also from the same TIMELINE as Theo.


One other thing:

"-When people have more questions than awnsers, an investigation should be done over, and over again.

Bullshit. Those investigations weren't done for your beneift, any more than the investigations in a murder trial are done for your benefit. In the case of a murder trial, investigations are done to in order to convince a prosecutor to lay charges. What you, sitting at home, might think of the evidence is irrelevant. Similarily, in the case of 9/11, investigations were conducted in order to generate a report for the federal government, and for various safety and emergency managment agencies of the government, as well as for the national standards council. The purpose of these investigations was to generate an accurate timeline of events, and present the details in such a manner as to allow for the improvement of national security measures (airline security in particular), and building code/engineering standards. The reports certainly weren't intended to convince a bunch of Conspiracy Theory fruitcakes of anything.
"

Ok ok .
Everyone was consulted properly, in a good way, all testimonies heard (?). Justice may prevale.

BUT. If there are addional questions, why can't the be awnsered in the sequal?

The awnsers remain in a cloud of dust.

You're awnsers here, look more like, "there is another fool arriving" let's salute him.

Bullshit is only dangerous when stepping into it.

 
At 09 July, 2006 08:34, Blogger Alex said...

It seems the language barrier is getting worse :p

 
At 09 July, 2006 08:39, Blogger Billythekid said...

"Why not let someone believe?"

Good point. Call it the 9/11 Believe Movement, for my part, rather than the 9/11 Truth Movement. Because that's what it is. Don't call it 'truth' unless you have undisputed evidence.

 
At 09 July, 2006 08:39, Blogger Dutch reader said...

Alex said...
I'm sorry Dutch-man, but I can't understand most of what you're saying. The only thing I can get out of your blathering is that you blame the US for Theo's death. Which is idiotic. The only people to blame for his death, and for the 9/11 attacks, are the Muslim fanatics who carried out those acts, and the Imaams who preach hatred for non-muslims.

I know you're trying to speak english, but your sentences just aren't making sence. Which isn't surprising - even the CT'ers who live in the US rarely make sense, so it's no wonder that I wouldn't understand someone who's nuts AND has a bit of a language barrier.

8:27 AM


You're sorry ? For what? My bad English? Funny.
Without reading, you mention me blathering. My thoughts idiotic. I'm nuts.
Blame the person. Good thing.

Can we have the Thumbsup sign for this man?

O yeah, considdering you have more knowledge than the public in saying:

"The only people to blame for his death, and for the 9/11 attacks, are the Muslim fanatics who carried out those acts, and the Imaams who preach hatred for non-muslims."

Proove me my friend. Proove is like WMD in this matter. Nowhere to be found again.

 
At 09 July, 2006 08:42, Blogger Dutch reader said...

hehe

Alex said...
It seems the language barrier is getting worse :p

It does. You're the truth. Now arrest me.

 
At 09 July, 2006 08:49, Blogger Avery Dylan said...

While Theo died in the 21st century, he lived the bulk of his life in the 20th.

His killer is from the 7th century, in thinking, acting, and living, no matter what the calendar says.

His killer was invited to live in civilization, with little demanded of him.

Instead he lived like a savage.

But keep asking questions, keep it an open investigation. 19 Sweeties got a bad reputation

 
At 09 July, 2006 08:54, Blogger Dutch reader said...

19 Sweeties got a bad reputation.

19?

Is that like saying Theo lived most of his part in the 20th century, backing up your story?

19 give me proove on that?
Did you see the passports yourself?

 
At 09 July, 2006 08:56, Blogger Dutch reader said...

And...

Was he invited ?

"His killer was invited to live in civilization, with little demanded of him. "

Now where did U get, he was invited?
Trying to keep up with standards here.

 
At 09 July, 2006 08:58, Blogger Dutch reader said...

You do NOT add up Alex.
You just don't add up the story.

All muslims are bad. The don't believe in Jesus or so.

That's what i'm getting out of your stories. Fairytales my friend.
Bedtime stories.

 
At 09 July, 2006 09:12, Blogger Dutch reader said...

If people like to react on Loose Change, with cheap comments, like presented here in the comments, they should be possible to do that.

After seeing screw Loose Change, most comments were like "strawman" asshole, sucker, is this honorable to those who left their lives on 9/11.

I see now where the comments come from.

Maybe adding here to the fairytale:

Assholes, suckers, is this your proove? I never saw anly link in the screw Loose Change, veriviable on internet.

No link? no additional information to backup your story?

Nice, u are allmost ready for politics.

 
At 09 July, 2006 09:33, Blogger Avery Dylan said...

Like hey man, you might look at the header post for this blog. The one permanently at the top?

Did you see the sun today?

It's 93 million miles away.

You should check that math though.

 
At 09 July, 2006 09:37, Blogger Avery Dylan said...

And Theo's killer had dual citizenship - born in the Netherlands, and had Moroccan citizenship.

Nothing kept him in the lowlands, nothing but the handouts.

 
At 09 July, 2006 09:44, Blogger Dutch reader said...

Did you see the sun today?

Prettt cloudy today here.
No sun.

Would you know why the sticky post is "not to be commented anymore" here in this hatefull blog?

Yeah a dual citizenship.
Now you read the headlines concerning the story.

Still not awnsering my question, about U saying, he was invited ?

But then again. A Blog like this.
I see the poor quality.
The poor people trying to proove others who are wrong. Not presenting me with circumstantial evidence.

Know what U read. Don't misinterpreted messages you all receive.

 
At 09 July, 2006 09:51, Blogger Dutch reader said...

Did you get to your own comment concerning 19 innocent sweetharts?

Time to awnser on that?

 
At 09 July, 2006 10:09, Blogger Billythekid said...

Seems the CTs have found the ultimate weapon against the Truth sceptics by unleashing the Dutch equivalent to Borat (for those not familiar: the satirical Kazakhstani journalist caricature invented and portrayed by British comedian Sacha Baron Cohen). Although I have my doubts about him being a real "Dutchie". The Dutch usually are not this bad at English.

 
At 09 July, 2006 10:27, Blogger Dutch reader said...

@ Billy 10:09 AM

Is that what is next in your USofA, soon the USW? The generalising gays, are all Boratlike persons? Yes people are FREE here to marry their own sex.
Why are people here free to smoke your (WAR-ON-DRUGS) helldrug grass?

Next professional subject, is probably (again) on my bad English, or should i say American?
Or the post will be about our Dutchies all being crazy.
Sure. Let me laugh about your thoughts.

It still comes down, to 1 thing.
Your freedom, my freedom.

Your freedom concerns me, when i want to travel by air today.
Your freedom is asking us about a biometrical passport, otherwise, no USW ground for me.

Don't let YOUR freedom look too much like Hitlers' freedom.

Suckers!

 
At 09 July, 2006 10:31, Blogger Dutch reader said...

One do not have to own a country, just being there with real weapons.
It goes way beyond that!

 
At 09 July, 2006 10:38, Blogger Alex said...

Heh calm down there Borat. Or should I call you Goldmember? Anyway, the more excited you get, the less we understand you. If you have questions or comments, lay them out in a logical sequence, and make sure they're clearly phrased. No special idioms or slang. That's the best way to avoid misunderstandings. If you can do that, I'll do my best to answer any relevant questions you may have. Otherwise, I won't be able to understand you, so I won't bother responding.

 
At 09 July, 2006 10:39, Blogger Dutch reader said...

If all your taxes (?)money, war on drugs, war on terrorism, war on illegal aliens (is that what the word is?) was put into research,
as a whole, the world would now be without diseases, and could be living on Mars.

Generaly speculating. Sure.

Money, can bring more peace, than any weapon will ever bring.

 
At 09 July, 2006 10:40, Blogger shawn said...

In Theo we trusted.
Theo died because of your foreign politics.


How wrong can you people be? Theo died because of a religion that preaches that women are chattel and that anyone who insults or criticizes your religion should be killed on the order of God.

More importantly, it has been claimed that unlike people such as Bin Laden, the Saudi Royals DO have expansionist dreams for Islam,

JP, you're wrong again. Like I've said before it is the goal of Islam to make the world Islamic.


Yes people are FREE here to marry their own sex.
Why are people here free to smoke your (WAR-ON-DRUGS) helldrug grass?


In my state gays can marry. Drugs are retarded, but as a libertarian I wouldn't mind people being able to make themselves retards.

Proove me my friend. Proove is like WMD in this matter. Nowhere to be found again.

This guy's almost as bad as nesnyc. We'll never have enough proof for people like you. We have better than circumstantial evidence, yet you fail to "believe" the 'official' story.

Don't let YOUR freedom look too much like Hitlers' freedom.

And he proves how stupid he is. Ever heard of Goodwin's Law? The first comparison to Hitler or the Nazis loses the argument. (Hitler never claimed to be fighting for freedom by the way, just for the "Aryan race".)

Don't let your ignorance of history get in the way of making an irrelevant post, though.

 
At 09 July, 2006 10:41, Blogger shawn said...

If all your taxes (?)money, war on drugs, war on terrorism, war on illegal aliens (is that what the word is?) was put into research,
as a whole, the world would now be without diseases, and could be living on Mars.


We shouldn't have taxes. You people have fucking half of your income taken by the government, that's ludicrous. And why shouldn't we fight the people who attacked us on 9/11? Or the people who come to this country illegally and don't pay those taxes you love so much?

 
At 09 July, 2006 10:42, Blogger Dutch reader said...

Ok Alex (10:38 AM)

It had nothing to do with the original subject.

True. My bad. I'll behave from here.

Sorry for any inconviniance i caused here.

 
At 09 July, 2006 10:45, Blogger shawn said...

True. My bad. I'll behave from here.

Sorry for any inconviniance i caused here.


No, keep posting. It's like having argument with people I went to college with, they were so ignorant of history and politics, tearing them to shreds was fun as hell.

 
At 09 July, 2006 10:52, Blogger Dutch reader said...

And he proves how stupid he is.

Read all posts above, to proove indeed how stupid and ignorant i am.

Again shawn, keep fighting the arguments. "the whole picture" hasn't reached your state.

Don't let your freedom be our futured freedom.

Notice, on all major defend issues u USW people mention the word "war on"?

Bit of the comment from shawn:

"And why shouldn't we fight the people who attacked us on 9/11? Or the people who come to this country illegally and don't pay those taxes you love so much?
"

As most of your comment, i never said that. READ my friend.
Not worthy to go into this comment anyway.

See a bit more, than defending your precious own lawn by accusing me how silly i am.

 
At 09 July, 2006 10:56, Blogger Dutch reader said...

10:45 AM ok shawn, taking it step by step:

My first question.

Can you people from the USW, please not touch my freedom, or change it "for the better"?

 
At 09 July, 2006 10:59, Blogger Alex said...

If all your taxes (?)money, war on drugs, war on terrorism, war on illegal aliens (is that what the word is?) was put into research,
as a whole, the world would now be without diseases, and could be living on Mars.


So what you're saying is, it's the responsibility of the US to use it's money to help save the rest of the world. But the US doesn't have any right to intervene militarily or politicaly in the rest of the world.

That's a little...unfair, isn't it?

The US already spends more money helping out other nations than all of Europe put together. Most scientific breakthroughs are made in the US. And which country was it that pioneered space flight, and continues to explore the solar system? It wasn't Kazikstan, that's for sure.

Money, can bring more peace, than any weapon will ever bring.

How, by blackmailing people? You tell me how money is going to convince a bunch of madmen to make peace. Theo was killed for insulting Islam. The artists in Denmark who drew the Mohammed cartoons had a bounty put on their head for DRAWING A FUCKING CARTOON. Money doesn't create peace. Money's just a tool like any other. Like a shovel, or a computer, or a book, or a knife, or a rifle, or a bomb. They're all just tools. What we DO with them is what determines their effect.

 
At 09 July, 2006 11:00, Blogger shawn said...

As most of your comment, i never said that. READ my friend.
Not worthy to go into this comment anyway.


In your list of things we shouldn't spend taxes on, you said, and I quote "war on terrorism". So that's where my question came from, dumbass.

Can you people from the USW, please not touch my freedom, or change it "for the better"?

What's USW? Some play on George W. Bush's name? If so, it's terrible, try something better.

And you idiot, the countries we attacked were, let's see if you know this word, DICTATORSHIPS. We didn't attack liberal democracies, Einstein.

But I guess you consider sharia or autocratic control "freedom".

 
At 09 July, 2006 11:00, Blogger Dutch reader said...

Worldchampionship final has started: France -Italy.
(off subject)
Concerning the subject:
I'll be slow in commenting for 1,5 hrs. (exluding any extra time)

We like to see soccer. Strange indeed. Is that anywhere live on any mainstream media channel?

 
At 09 July, 2006 11:00, Blogger Alex said...

Can you people from the USW, please not touch my freedom, or change it "for the better"?

What the fuck's a USW?

And what the fuck have any of us done to "your freedom"?

You're being more of a dick than that Insync idiot.

 
At 09 July, 2006 11:01, Blogger shawn said...

We like to see soccer. Strange indeed. Is that anywhere live on any mainstream media channel?

ESPN plays some of the games. Not that I care, soccer is a little kids' game in America.

 
At 09 July, 2006 11:02, Blogger Alex said...

We like to see soccer. Strange indeed. Is that anywhere live on any mainstream media channel?

Is it just me or is this guy a total fucking bigot?

 
At 09 July, 2006 11:06, Blogger shawn said...

Is it just me or is this guy a total fucking bigot?

Yup, American isn't free because we have laws against pot (doesn't stop practically everyone from age 14 to 30 from smoking it), gays can't marry (oh except in my state), and we don't like soccer (mostly because our colonization wasn't late enough historically).

Oh, and we're really backwards (even though we were the world's first liberal democracy, while the Netherlands was still a monarchy).

 
At 09 July, 2006 11:13, Blogger Alex said...

Yeah, anyone who doesn't like soccer is a savage! No wonder you're trying to take over the world! George Bush is like Attila, and you're all his Huns. If only you had had the civilizing influence of soccer when you were children, the world would be at peace now!

 
At 09 July, 2006 11:13, Blogger Dutch reader said...

So what you're saying is, it's the responsibility of the US to use it's money to help save the rest of the world. But the US doesn't have any right to intervene militarily or politicaly in the rest of the world.

That's a little...unfair, isn't it?

No, didn't say that.

Where did all the money come from?
Does USA have any debts?
Doesn't matter.
When some intervention power should be active all the time, and everywhere,

What the hell is happening in Palestina?
When Saddam, entered Kuwait, within days you guys where there to "help".
Uhu.

(ITA - FRA 0 - 1 !!!)

Israel is going after one person, with allmost all material into Palestina (or what you name it).
Where is "our" superguys to withhold any action against possesing another country?

Very funny.
My time is bound most to watching the game.

On comments how dumb i am, i cannot respond to all of them.

 
At 09 July, 2006 11:16, Blogger shawn said...

Israel is going after one person, with allmost all material into Palestina (or what you name it).
Where is "our" superguys to withhold any action against possesing another country?


The Palestinians got Gaza, and have lobbed a thousand rockets in Israel proper since then. They killed two soldiers and kidnapped a third and refused to return him.

Israel is completely morally and legally within its rights to enter Palestine and demand the soldier's return. The Arabs started this cycle of violence, they must end it.

 
At 09 July, 2006 11:17, Blogger shawn said...

Of course the enlightened European (where Israel is viewed as an aggressive occupying force) wouldn't for one second think of Israel's right to protect its citizens.

 
At 09 July, 2006 11:20, Blogger Dutch reader said...

hehe

indeed alex(11:13 AM)
We are sooo dumb here.
I can't find a good translation for "voetvolk" (a dutch word can't help it, searched @ google for translation) (sorry for admitting a non english word)

Thanks man, see us as your extended backlawn. Nice for the future policies on "world heratige"

 
At 09 July, 2006 11:22, Blogger Dutch reader said...

HAHAHAHAHA :D

"Israel is completely morally and legally within its rights to enter Palestine and demand the soldier's return. "

READ u fool. No country is alleged to enter another country. Concerning Bosnia, you were sooner to appear.

Suckerrr

 
At 09 July, 2006 11:23, Blogger Dutch reader said...

1 - 1 !!!

Wow this is becoming a thriller.

Jezus, btw why are you sending Michael Jackson to Europe?

 
At 09 July, 2006 11:23, Blogger shawn said...

READ u fool. No country is alleged to enter another country. Concerning Bosnia, you were sooner to appear.

Palestine isn't a sovereign nation.

 
At 09 July, 2006 11:24, Blogger shawn said...

Wow this is becoming a thriller.

Yup, people kicking a ball across a field that's far too large for 90 minutes is the height of excitement.

 
At 09 July, 2006 11:25, Blogger shawn said...

And perhaps you've never heard of alliances (Kuwait) or NATO (any of the European actions). Treaty-bound to act in those instances.

 
At 09 July, 2006 11:31, Blogger Dutch reader said...

@ shawn 11:17

one second think of Israel's right to protect its citizens.

To enter another country and destroy a part of it?

Nice again.
Where did talking (politically)about this missing soldier go about?

Again in Israel i see alot of American idea's.

"Let's defend our people against terror by entering them, with alot of war material".

That's teach 'em.

Suckers.

The reason why u not enter Israel, is because of the bonds. Is still an Israelian company, responsible for recording/administring/take a note, all your phonecalls?

Funny. Not more, not less.
Still 1-1 friends. Anyone on his sattelite maybe able to watch the WorldChampionship? (i allready asked)

 
At 09 July, 2006 11:33, Blogger shawn said...

To enter another country and destroy a part of it?

Palestine is not another country. As I stated before, it is not a sovereign nation.

And when the government is complicit in the kidnapping of soldiers, Israel is completely within its rights to enter to get him back (Hamas said he would not be released without hundreds of Palestinian prinsoners being released, which is ridiculous).

Israel has been fighting this conflict for the past thirty years with one hand tied behind their back, no thanks to the UN and "enlightened" Euope.

(Oh and a sizable majority, 82 percent, of Palestinians support he kidnapping of Israelis. They're not so innocent after all.)

 
At 09 July, 2006 11:34, Blogger Alex said...

"READ u fool. No country is alleged to enter another country. "

What the hell? "Alleged"? Yeah this language thing really sucks.

If you meant "allowed" then you really are an idiot. Israel's got every right to do exactly what it's doing. I'm just surprised at how restrained they've been.

 
At 09 July, 2006 11:35, Blogger shawn said...

Is still an Israelian company, responsible for recording/administring/take a note, all your phonecalls?

Why you antisemitic swine...

Since we're a capitalist society, we have many companies that take care of telephones, all of which I believe are American.

 
At 09 July, 2006 11:37, Blogger Alex said...

I never thought I'd see it, but this guy's more bigoted than Nesnyc.

 
At 09 July, 2006 11:39, Blogger Dutch reader said...

Shawn said...
And perhaps you've never heard of alliances (Kuwait) or NATO (any of the European actions). Treaty-bound to act in those instances.

11:25 AM

Sure. When did the USA listen to the UN/NATO, in actual cases?

You have another freedom want to be spread around the world, than UN/NATO had in older cases.

What the fuck, what are they anyway nowadays. A big matter for meetings and making policies. Whatever.

Tell me more about your New World Order.
Will my future children, be able to make the deciscions i make today?
Don't forget, it's not about a few words. It's thoughts reached those crazy dutchies.

Allmost 2 - 1 ! Oeffff (dutch for screaming allmost)

 
At 09 July, 2006 11:39, Blogger shawn said...

I never thought I'd see it, but this guy's more bigoted than Nesnyc.

Europe allowed 11 million Jews to die, and haven't learned a thing since.

 
At 09 July, 2006 11:41, Blogger shawn said...


Tell me more about your New World Order.
Will my future children, be able to make the deciscions i make today?
Don't forget, it's not about a few words. It's thoughts reached those crazy dutchies.


There is no New World Order, and if there ever was, it would be the UN (which scares the piss out of me). You'd probably welcome that antisemitic, dictator loving body, though.

Your children will be free to marry the same-sex and smoke pot all they want (unless sharia has taken hold by then).

 
At 09 July, 2006 11:47, Blogger Alex said...

It's truly scary that most of the world really can't see the real threat. They haven't learned a bloody thing from the last 60 years. Most people are still stuck in the same mindset, where high taxes and a socialist nanny state are a solution to poverty, The US and The Jews controll everything and want to rule the world, Capitalism is evil, and diversity and understanding will ensure nobody ever attacks you. How do you fight that sort of ignorance? It seems we'll have to make all the same mistakes again.

 
At 09 July, 2006 11:49, Blogger shawn said...

It seems we'll have to make all the same mistakes again.

Yes. If we don't learn from history we are doomed to repeat it. Sucks those of us who know better are stuck along for the ride.

 
At 09 July, 2006 12:06, Blogger Dutch reader said...

antisemitic swine

HAHA, i'm a swine (dutch: Zwijn)

@ alex
"I never thought I'd see it, but this guy's more bigoted than Nesnyc.11:37 AM"

Sure again. I hope some people may read about my freedoms, before i get restrained, jailed.

You react funny on this forum. Really, you should see yourselves on Oprah.

Bigoted, i had to look it up. Sure.
No time no money, for a documentary, with 3 hours of motion picture.

See a whole picture. Again.
READ. Read the things i say with my posts. My American is bad, i know.

You'll get it sooner of later. Or after another terrorist threat.
The Holland Tunnel? Dudes. Look at what fear you're being talked into, for defending MORE freedom.

Why not change the American word:

"WAR-POLITICS" into "peace-politics".

Probably i'm declared a hippy by now. Not worthy any comments.

Second half (France-Italy) is starting.
The last 45 minutes is the last bit of the thriller.
I'm watching.

Just read some more @ http://www.geocities.com/killtown/

during this 45 minute commercial break.
If you've read the WHOLE timeline. Can you tell me, where the mainstream media there, would keep such a webpage, video, document, let me know.
No anti-ct movies, just HONEST material.

Tot zo (see u soon)

(because we need to get more Dutch into the American New Language Laws)

 
At 09 July, 2006 12:14, Blogger shawn said...

That Killtown site is a joke. He thinks the plane didn't hit the Pentagon.

And your posts still make no sense.

 
At 09 July, 2006 12:21, Blogger Alex said...

That's rather amusing. This clown talks about "american language laws", which is pure nonsense since the US has unlimited freedom of speach. Meanwhile, he lives in Europe, and the EU has anti-hate-speach laws which can be used to control any unpopular speach. The things he's said on this blog so far could technicaly get him locked up in Europe, but not in America.

Truly amazing how ignorant and delusional some people are.

 
At 09 July, 2006 12:22, Blogger Dutch reader said...

"I never thought I'd see it, but this guy's more bigoted than Nesnyc.

Europe allowed 11 million Jews to die, and haven't learned a thing since.

11:39 AM " Shawn

So true, so true!
When we entered the Europian Commity, "one big happy family", things went wrong.

Our new bosses, probably want to extend the policy, in which most countries don't like the fact of tollerating any drugs, disapproving our (dutch) policies.

Your New World Order is a Hoax?
Why would a certain George H. Bush say such a silly thing at 9/11/2000?

No don't go into that. Just look at what the "Global" opionion is doing to an innocent dutch asshole.

My children? Hmm, let's survive Iran and North-Korea first.
I'm not religic person. I'm praying that weapons are not necessary in these matters.
I pray for a solution. I like to live.

You should look up the next to be thought Dutch word: "Polder politiek"

Yes this form of politics is an extreme idea of solving problems.

Talking does not help. Uhu. Weapons do.

 
At 09 July, 2006 12:30, Blogger shawn said...

Your New World Order is a Hoax?
Why would a certain George H. Bush say such a silly thing at 9/11/2000?


I knew one of you idiots would bring this up again. He didn't say "New World Order" he said "new world order" (HUGE difference).

Presidents Mikhail Gorbachev and George H.W. Bush used the term to try and define the nature of the post Cold War era, and the spirit of great power cooperation that they hoped might materialize.

New world order

Talking does not help. Uhu. Weapons do.

Diplomacy is always the first way to do things (it's what we did with Iraq, what we're doing with Iran and the DPRK). But there are those people (I'm thinking of a certain man who ruled Europe in the 40s) who will only answer to the gun.

 
At 09 July, 2006 12:31, Blogger shawn said...

And, and H.W. Bush made the speech in 1990, not 2000.

 
At 09 July, 2006 12:32, Blogger Dutch reader said...

Let me be your clown alex.

"Meanwhile, he lives in Europe, and the EU has anti-hate-speach laws which can be used to control any unpopular speach".

Crazy American u are.
We decided to agree on your laws, not to say harmfull words to eachother (you know... racist things, not ANY unpopular speech).
Don't lie about our freedoms.

For what i'm saying here, will MOST normal European people AGREE asshole. I will never be put to jail, because of my so called "unpopular speech". Nice way of turning a story. We in Europe have not depleted all your new freedoms yet. I am just a sucker. A normal European working dude. Luckilly i read and see more than just this blog.

The things he's said on this blog so far could technicaly get him locked up in Europe, but not in America."

HAHAHAHAHAHA We Europeans are laughing. Please remember that.

 
At 09 July, 2006 12:33, Blogger Dutch reader said...

Shawn, my bad.

"And, and H.W. Bush made the speech in 1990, not 2000.

12:31 PM"

But on 11 September. I was partially right.

 
At 09 July, 2006 12:36, Blogger Dutch reader said...

Funny that it reached Europe :

"I knew one of you idiots would bring this up again. He didn't say "New World Order" he said "new world order" (HUGE difference). "

He said it indeed, without CAPS.
Whatso ever.

Please people... Whole picture. Not the fragments what caused your big mess.

 
At 09 July, 2006 12:37, Blogger shawn said...

We decided to agree on your laws, not to say harmfull words to eachother (you know... racist things, not ANY unpopular speech).
Don't lie about our freedoms.


The suppression of free speech, in any form, isn't a "freedom". Anti-hate speech laws are anti-free speech laws. I hate neo-Nazis, I hate racists, I hate bigots of every form but I will not suppress their right to speak their mind.

I will never be put to jail, because of my so called "unpopular speech". Nice way of turning a story. We in Europe have not depleted all your new freedoms yet. I am just a sucker. A normal European working dude. Luckilly i read and see more than just this blog.


That's why Holocaust deniers are jailed in Europe but can spout their nonsense in America without fear of prison?

HAHAHAHAHAHA We Europeans are laughing. Please remember that.

I bet you were laughing when the crooked crosses goose-stepped through your nation and we came to free you.

But on 11 September. I was partially right.

And? In English we call that a "coincidence".

 
At 09 July, 2006 12:40, Blogger shawn said...

He said it indeed, without CAPS.
Whatso ever.

Please people... Whole picture. Not the fragments what caused your big mess.


The term "new world order" refers to any chance in the balance of powers. After the Soviet collapse the world moved from a bipolar one, to a unipolar one, ergo a new order.

Why you people can't make the easiest connections to reality is a great mystery.

 
At 09 July, 2006 12:40, Blogger shawn said...

change*

 
At 09 July, 2006 12:48, Blogger Alex said...

Crazy American u are.

I'm Canadian you ignorant inbred.

We decided to agree on your laws, not to say harmfull words to eachother (you know... racist things, not ANY unpopular speech).
Don't lie about our freedoms.


Hey retard, the US doesn't HAVE any such laws! How the fuck did you "agree on our laws" WHEN THE US DOESN'T EVEN FUCKING HAVE THEM????

I will never be put to jail, because of my so called "unpopular speech".

Really. Because I remember a certain famous anti-semite who is now in Jail in Austria due to his views.

Luckilly i read and see more than just this blog.

I find it difficult to beleive that you read anything at all.

HAHAHAHAHAHA We Europeans are laughing. Please remember that.

Laugh all you like buddy. Might want to get a copy of your new Criminal Code first though. Here, I'll help you out:

http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,56294,00.html

Now let's see you find an American law which limits speech.

 
At 09 July, 2006 12:52, Blogger Dutch reader said...

Shawn, you made screw me loose,
you said in your movie relating to wikipedia is "no-go-zone" Not reliable.
Please not refer to that, or i might warn your government, doing illegal refers, or reafers. Whatever.

A New World Order starts @ Lowlands. We help u reconstructing
New Orleans. Let us help U on reconstructing some freedom threatening policies worldwide.

Hey. to be sure. I don't hate anyone in person. Not attending to do anything, but posting this worthless Dutch comments.

I don't want to be taking part in any c.t.
I would like you to hear the stupid (but understandable) dutch sucker, or soccer guy.

Still 1 - 1 , @ 81' minute. I hope for extra time. With extra time they will probably broadcast the Nike and Gilette commercial again.

No American voetvolk, i want to see 2 countries struggle for victory, or is that wrong, without weapons?

We have another World Champion within an approximately 30 minutes (including extra time and penalties).

Do you want to hear "World Champion is ..... USA all the time?"

It's really more complicated than, "defending our freedom".

The game is so exciting, another little break, for you in need of education adorable peeps here.

 
At 09 July, 2006 12:55, Blogger Alex said...

What the hell was that?

 
At 09 July, 2006 12:56, Blogger shawn said...

Learn proper English grammar and syntax and then repost that.

The only thing I can surmise from each of your posts is you're mocking America, the country that savde your country (and continent) from Nazi tyranny.

And you're under the impression you guys are more free because you have laws that suppress freedom of speech.

 
At 09 July, 2006 12:56, Blogger shawn said...

saved*

 
At 09 July, 2006 12:57, Blogger Alex said...

Free association?

Let me try!

Ruch Deater, you make Loose My Screw. I go soccer play ball. Then World Order change and become New. OK, so I take all my freedoms and play in corner. I no go jail to! You make new freedoms!

 
At 09 July, 2006 12:58, Blogger Dutch reader said...

Now let's see you find an American law which limits speech.

I saw a little movie with a teacher who said to some of his students a rasist word. In my opinion, some word, on which you can not call to a student from a different race. This movie was Homesecurity made American.

Now let's see you find an American law which limits speech.

This teacher was accused of .....
There's your freedom of speech.

YOUR LINKS don't work either.

 
At 09 July, 2006 13:00, Blogger Dutch reader said...

"Learn proper English grammar and syntax and then repost that."

When do you think everyone is a perfect American?

 
At 09 July, 2006 13:01, Blogger shawn said...

I saw a little movie with a teacher who said to some of his students a rasist word. In my opinion, some word, on which you can not call to a student from a different race. This movie was Homesecurity made American.

I've never heard of that film before.

You don't seem to understand how freedom of speech works. Our Constitution outlines what the government cannot do. The government cannot punish you for freedom of speech, but your employer can.

 
At 09 July, 2006 13:01, Blogger Dutch reader said...

Alex (12:57 PM)

Let's smoke a peacepipe before it's forbidden

 
At 09 July, 2006 13:01, Blogger shawn said...

When do you think everyone is a perfect American?

Not only Americans speak English. And I never tried to post in Dutch, did I?

 
At 09 July, 2006 13:01, Blogger Dutch reader said...

Better, just suck my precious off.

 
At 09 July, 2006 13:03, Blogger shawn said...

Better, just suck my precious off.

Precious? Who are you? Gollum (Lord of the Rings reference)?

 
At 09 July, 2006 13:04, Blogger Dutch reader said...

@ shawn (1:01 PM)
Do you think it is still ok to say English?

 
At 09 July, 2006 13:06, Blogger Dutch reader said...

Precious

@ shawn. Just keep hold of it.
If you loose it (another link), you're worth nothing.

Maybe go for a dictionary to get integrated. No. That's un American.

 
At 09 July, 2006 13:08, Blogger shawn said...

If you loose it (another link), you're worth nothing.

Maybe go for a dictionary to get integrated. No. That's un American.


What are you talking about? Another link, what?

I don't have a Dutch dictionary, I'm sorry.

 
At 09 July, 2006 13:08, Blogger Alex said...

Yeah, ok, I'm done with Borat over here. You seem to have a lot more patience Shawn, so I'll leave him to you :)

 
At 09 July, 2006 13:15, Blogger Dutch reader said...

This teacher you unbeliever:

http://dumpalink.com/post/1139564645/Racist_Teacher

Now go to jail for 345 years.
Let's be realistic. How can anyone sentence more lifetime than his own.

To make the numbers look good?

You imaginary people.
A Certain mister Lennon wrote something alike. Don't believe me.
Disproove everything i said.

Sure. Read more! Proove, don't lie "i don't know it, it doesn't excist".
Think more.

 
At 09 July, 2006 13:22, Blogger shawn said...

Did you watch the video? He wasn't jailed. He was suspended from his job for the use of the slur.

You proved yourself wrong.

 
At 09 July, 2006 13:23, Blogger Dutch reader said...

Yeah, u to sleep tight, don't let the police bite.

Me silly dutchy.

Funny that u make a good job in saying how insane i am, without denying how terrible (or terrorable) you Americans have become. And howfar these thoughts are spread nowadays. Allmost 5 years. Most of the comments here, appear to have learned nothing. But accusing others.

I hope everyone who sees the screw "Loose Change" doc, read all these comments posted above.
That is the real reason i came here, to this blog.
I was irritated about the subtitles.
Who wouldn't? !

Zidane got a red card. My God. What's happening.
The tournament was all for the best French player Zidane. He got Red.

 
At 09 July, 2006 13:27, Blogger Dutch reader said...

"You proved yourself wrong. "

No shawn, with giving the link
i gave the commenter a life sentence jail.
Not commenting on the teacher, who should be saying those kind of words. The asshole (reffering to the teacher, to be correct)

http://dumpalink.com/post/1139564645/Racist_Teacher

This teacher.

Again, read more, comment with more quality

 
At 09 July, 2006 13:27, Blogger shawn said...

Yeah, u to sleep tight, don't let the police bite.

You post a video that proves my point and you act as if I'm wrong? You're an utter moron.

The man wasn't jailed for his slur, employers are allowed to take action against employees who break rules.

The government, however, cannot punish people for use hate speech.

 
At 09 July, 2006 13:28, Blogger shawn said...

This teacher.

Again, read more, comment with more quality


I WATCHED THE VIDEO YOU IDIOT.

In the video they say he was suspended for ten days from his job. He wasn't jailed for anything he said.

 
At 09 July, 2006 13:28, Blogger shawn said...

Again, read more, comment with more quality

Irony alert.

 
At 09 July, 2006 13:30, Blogger apathoid said...

dutch, what the [explitive deleted] are going on about? I'm fairly good at deciphering bad English(typos, poor grammar, incomplete sentences) - but I cannot make out most of what you're typing. I have an idea, and then when someone replies to you, I gather that my idea was wrong.

Are you saying someone was jailed for 345 years for using a racial slur?

To clear up any confusion you may have about the freedom of speech: The US government cannot suppress free speech in any way. However, your boss can and will terminate your employment for using racial slurs, fighting, and being a [explitive deleted]. Thats not supressing freedom of speech, its a private company removing a poor employee..

 
At 09 July, 2006 13:35, Blogger Dutch reader said...

Shawn said...
Did you watch the video? He wasn't jailed. He was suspended from his job for the use of the slur.

You proved yourself wrong.

1:22 PM

I'm prooving myself wrong on so many subject, but do you actually read them? You awnser only half of my lies, maybe less.

Is that something, which no still need clarifacation on, or will that be classified.

Enjoying, laughing about your freedoms. HAHA

Be carefull with real important people there please. Why doesn't Steve Jones, get full government security, when actually is whisleblowing on the subject 9/11 ?

Just another example, why you should reopen 911 suckers!

To clarify what happened.
Keep asking questions, was one of the most important quote, i read here from you.

Keep reading, the case is not closes.

Penalties!!!

Crazy Non-American game (yeah the rednecks were there i know), has come to a thrilling end.

No massacres please in this soccer game.

Compare, read. Mostly think.
Only then, try to say something.

Don't just deny it all. You can't be.

 
At 09 July, 2006 13:41, Blogger shawn said...

Why doesn't Steve Jones, get full government security, when actually is whisleblowing on the subject 9/11 ?

No he isn't. His "science" is so ridiculous that not one structural engineer supports him. Not one.

 
At 09 July, 2006 13:41, Blogger apathoid said...

Be carefull with real important people there please. Why doesn't Steve Jones, get full government security, when actually is whisleblowing on the subject 9/11 ?


You bring up a good point. If the US government truly limited free-speech, then why is Alex Jones, Steven Jones, Uncle Fetzer, etc..able to accuse the government of mass murder without reprisal?

Any ideas?

 
At 09 July, 2006 13:42, Blogger shawn said...

I only responded to that because the rest of your post made no sense or you were just repeating yourself.

 
At 09 July, 2006 13:48, Blogger Dutch reader said...

I love you too "I WATCHED THE VIDEO YOU IDIOT."

Like Alex i give up for now.

Remove your statue of liberty, placing a same icon, representing people like Killtown and Jones people. Not wanting to overthrow anything. Just want more truth.

In Killtown we trust, should be on your coins

ITALY WORLD CHAMPION.

Who would have thought of that?

Sleep and dream of your American dream. Suckers. Reality.
Say anything in next comments. They will not resemble IQ of Bush...Google bitches, it's about 80. Is google also a government issue allready. Not to be quoted to?

Bye bye freedom with u guys.

 
At 09 July, 2006 13:49, Blogger Dutch reader said...

Yeah and mine is way less.
Sure

 
At 09 July, 2006 13:56, Blogger shawn said...

Remove your statue of liberty, placing a same icon, representing people like Killtown and Jones people. Not wanting to overthrow anything. Just want more truth.

Replace it with people who do want the overthrow of our country and have no desire for the truth? Fucking idiot.


Say anything in next comments. They will not resemble IQ of Bush...Google bitches, it's about 80. Is google also a government issue allready. Not to be quoted to?

his IQ isn't 80, he would've flunked out of Yale. Are you ignorant of how IQ thinks, too.

Oh man, the mighty Google! Bow down! Nothing's a government issue you fucking dumbass. You can't just quote random websites and act as if its good information. But coming from a guy who thinks Killtown and Jones are good sources of information, it's not surprising.

Bye bye freedom with u guys.

hahah we're already proved how we have more freedom to speak than you do. Keep laughing, numbskull.

 
At 09 July, 2006 13:57, Blogger shawn said...

IQ works*

 
At 09 July, 2006 14:15, Blogger apathoid said...

Dutch, why are US citizens allowed to accuse the US government of mass murder and not go to jail. If we have no free speech, then what is your explanation?

 
At 09 July, 2006 14:58, Blogger Alex said...

Longest thread ever on SLC, and all thanks to a simpleton.

I gotta stop talking to people like him....

 
At 09 July, 2006 15:01, Blogger shawn said...

Longest thread ever on SLC, and all thanks to a simpleton.

I gotta stop talking to people like him....


I'd stop feeding him, but it's impossible for me to allow idiocy to go unpwnt.

 
At 09 July, 2006 15:02, Blogger Richard said...

I really love how some people who have probably never been to America seem to know more about its daily activities than say a citizen of it. Maybe I just keep missing it but I don't see any soul crushing police state around here.

 
At 09 July, 2006 15:39, Blogger Dutch reader said...

Hehe, reading all posts, the man of the match is shawn.

"Shawn said...
Wow this is becoming a thriller.

Yup, people kicking a ball across a field that's far too large for 90 minutes is the height of excitement.
@11:24 AM"

Even a game played all over this world isn't save in the future of Shawn. Can we kill or silence it.

You proud people. Just listen to yourselves.

Being proud of this subject being the biggest post on your "to piss on" site, with lousy "on the man" comments.

This simpleton, or Dutchie (apperantly things change there very fast) leaves you for now.

Don't be afraid. Don't be. Just try to see. Most of us is VOETVOLK. As Arnold says it. Is our Terminator not able to bend some little amendments, so he can run for ... ?

No no. Absurt insinuations. Truly unacceptable.

Please worship and obey your new statue of FREEDOM. Or else.

 
At 09 July, 2006 15:48, Blogger shawn said...

Even a game played all over this world isn't save in the future of Shawn. Can we kill or silence it.

You're using a logical fallacy called argumentum ad populum (appeal to popularity). You're acting as if I'm a weirdo for not liking a sport every else does.

Then you make a fucking idiotic statement. I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH YOU PEOPLE WATCHING/PLAYING SOCCER. It's no skin off my back, moron.

Please worship and obey your new statue of FREEDOM. Or else.

Americans can spout hate speech without fear of jailtime. You cannot. Guess you're more free.

 
At 09 July, 2006 16:13, Blogger Dutch reader said...

(appeal to popularity).
Yeah, i wanna be like Arnold.

Now you try your freedom on "Americans can spout hate speech without fear of jailtime. You cannot. Guess you're more free."

Let our daughters smoke a joint.
Your media covering it, and the dutch media.

Ahhh, you're not free anymore. IT ALL CHANGED 9/11/01.

These commenters here will probably "celebrate" its' 5 year ...

Again, just another worried person here.

Dutchies are people crazy. Just like "the rest" of the people,
"Either you're with them, Or..."
Just generalise and globalise.
World Freedom!

I went twice to the American Dream, as a county.

When did you visit a concentration camp? Or the Anne Frank house. Monuments, with great importance of mankand. See and understand such a crazy war.
If you did, did the bus stop there actually? Or did you just fly over?
"seen the video"? Wow.
Surpressing people for the good.

I would think, we have more idea's on this, to SEE, when things are going wrong, then you patriot trailerpark trash low lives will ever will see.

Not generalising, just according to most people i met here.

But then again. "Can this alien please have his mouth shut".

Still think bigger than you pitty brains are presenting you thoughts at this moment.

Just try to.

 
At 09 July, 2006 16:31, Blogger shawn said...

Let our daughters smoke a joint.

All of my friends smoke weed on a regular basis and none of them have ever gotten in trouble with the law. It's kind of odd you think being able to be an idiot (doing drugs) makes you freer.

then you patriot trailerpark trash low lives will ever will see.


There's nothing wrong with being a patriot. And since I'm part of upper middle-class America (thanks mom and dad for working out of poverty to get there), I've never even seen a trailer park. You are a bigot, sir. You don't know America from Mars.

Not generalising, just according to most people i met here.

Most Americans don't live in trailer parks.

But then again. "Can this alien please have his mouth shut".

I don't care what country you come from (one of my friends from work lived through WW2 in the Netherlands), but if you're going to be an idiot I will respond.

Still think bigger than you pitty brains are presenting you thoughts at this moment.

This is hilarious. You've been wrong at every turn, I've proven you wrong at every turn, but you insult my intelligence. Laughable.

 
At 09 July, 2006 17:34, Blogger Dutch reader said...

Please keep your skin on your own body.

"Please worship and obey your new statue of FREEDOM. Or else.

Americans can spout hate speech without fear of jailtime. You cannot. Guess you're more free. "

We are. You peeps are allready too illiterate to see.
What u do here above dear shawn, is making propaganda. Telling lies.

I've been at the dreamteam country twice. Still no awnsers.

No matter. Guantanamo is "ours". Nothing wrong with that. Only for real terrorists.
Jumping from this topic into another.

If you really read a message, see more than illiterate spelling errors, and so on... Otherwise,
"dead or alive"
---
Sure. Get some double to be a comedian, to set him straight in an act.
Media performance "double A plus"

Be more carefull with your freedom there.
"or else" (I at least try to measure with your standards(.

Tell me now. Could you give me some webforums, on which more people reply, with another opinion?

This seems to be a "Let's comment all docs concerning 9/11, which doubt the 9/11 comission report.

Wow. Freedom of speech you moron's refer to?
"We dutchies can't say no racist words no more to one other..." True.

Given the videolink i "had to sent" otherwise i was lying, (read the comments), proud of people getting caught, for saying racist things to another.

You rednecks, you funnymen.

Enjoying my evening so much here.
Ohhh, wait. i just F-5'ed.
Hilarious.
Shawn:
"All of my friends smoke weed "
If you turn 'em in, is there no bonus, no "probably linked to Al-Queda" profit in this?

*Can the DEA, all departments associates, centralize and try to find this child molester associated with "friends on drugs"?

Again, your freedom, and mine.

"then you patriot trailerpark trash low lives will ever will see.


There's nothing wrong with being a patriot."

You hurt me my friend. Sure, be a patriot. See the whole picture again my friend. Visit a concentration camp. Maybe, because you won your lottery, you won the grand price. The gaschamber.
Again. After WW2 this was UNHUMAN.

What do you guys do?
Next comment from shaw is " not in my state"
Pitty poor peeps.

Last of the 60 minutes of Shawn:
"This is hilarious. You've been wrong at every turn, I've proven you wrong at every turn, but you insult my intelligence. Laughable.

The more hilarious, the less people will believe. I'm wrong on every turn. Probably true in this "one way" forum. You proving man. Gimme some skin.
YOU LIE !
I do not insult you, nor your intelligence. Quote me, and your intelligence is proven on that matter.

I hope most people stay alive, after you guys will be showing off, with "We had to Nuke 'em" politics.

Still, keep nuking me, for being crazy, no intelligent awnser has been giving, but the fact that i must be a true animal.
Sure.

I hope more people read this "MAJOR" and highest in reactingranks/polls than these 7/8 silly reacting Rednecks. I trust you. I am happy to see more and more material questioning the 9/11 comission report.
YOU SHOULD REOPEN 9/11.
(got something to loose (change)?)

For Real (Ali G/Borat).

What are really respectable forum, on which more people want to react to, than this lousy commenters?

Anyone? No, just read how it went, on the .gov sites.

You've got a lot of work to do.
A lot of pollution to dismantle.

You look like people from the 7th century. I understand failure. Another product of failure is me.
Sure. Why do you American people have more rights on polluting the air, than anywhere worldwide?
Still funny. You should really look up a concentration camp.
The newest built is Guantanamo Bay.

Human rights, whoever they are?
American : "fuck it, these are muslims"

Any soldier accused of rape and murdering, is "one crazy platoon soldier"

Sure. Holywood tried, but you're now exceeding limits with appropriate propagenda.
---
*** Looked alot what our (dutchies) Neighbours did ***

Only way more advanced.

Don't see it. Whatever. I hope some people will help me in our
"new from America" : Your passport in a chip, implemented in a person.
Detectable. Delicious.

Yeah. You should learn more about the Dutch.
In fact, about the world. Don't rely on your so called independant media. Independance day, is that when u eat turkey?

Being patriot is one thing.
Can you pernounce "Hail Bush" or "Hail new President" ?
Practice is everything.

Last Philip and Morres sigaret, Marlboro Inc. (please don't sue me for spelling errors here)
Enjoying. Sure. I feel like talking to the S.S. of America. Those few people with so incredible much money.

All the money went missing in total after 9/11 was alot. Some say enough to get rid of any "hunger in the world".

Ahhh , i'm just not ready for my own moviemaker doc.

More people are, everyday. Don't let these "let me find weakspots" people hold u from this.

Be honest. Only then we can win this difficult situation we've run into worldwide, because of i quote "19 suspects"

You commenters never got to this. READ again and comment.

I'll be enjoying my 8 hours of sleep. Thanks.

Fucked up trailertrash commenters. I learned that on Oprah. So i know what i'm talking about. No bad words about the world loved Oprah.

Again, for real.

 
At 09 July, 2006 17:35, Blogger shawn said...

Telling lies.

How did I tell lies, you idiot? You're the one that linked a video saying a teacher was jailed for saying "nigga" when he was suspended from work. That doesn't go against freedom of speech, the restrictions are on what the government can do...not private employers.

 
At 09 July, 2006 17:37, Blogger shawn said...

Being patriot is one thing.
Can you pernounce "Hail Bush" or "Hail new President" ?
Practice is everything.


I DIDN'T VOTE FOR BUSH. Fucking asshole.

You're disgusting. You make a joke of WW2 and the Holocaust by comparing the President to Hitler. You intellectual lightweights need to find a tall building and jump off, the world IQ would jump quite a bit.

 
At 09 July, 2006 19:32, Blogger Alex said...

Just leave him alone Shawn. You'd have better results arguing with a vegetable. The guy can't even string more than two words together in a logical order, you think he's going to come up with a logical theory about ANYTHING?

 
At 10 July, 2006 02:03, Blogger mcar abasa said...

acbnews.go.com/US/story?id=92525&page=1

How do you explain what happened to WTC 1, 2 and 7?

 
At 10 July, 2006 02:32, Blogger Alex said...

How do you explain what happened to WTC 1, 2 and 7?

*sigh*

Let me break it down into steps you'll understand.

Plane hit building.

Plane go boom!

Building fall down.

And then a bunch of idiots got together and decided there was no plane. Must have watched the matrix too many times. "There is no spoon". I guess they all figured if they repeated it enough times, the AI in charge of the Matrix would make it happen. Except you're not Neo. And this isn't the Matrix. And the spoon is definitely there. Dumbass.

 
At 10 July, 2006 21:34, Blogger Richard said...

And then a bunch of idiots got together and decided there was no plane. Must have watched the matrix too many times. "There is no spoon". I guess they all figured if they repeated it enough times, the AI in charge of the Matrix would make it happen. Except you're not Neo. And this isn't the Matrix. And the spoon is definitely there. Dumbass.

Holy crap, I just spit up my drink laughing so hard!

 
At 13 July, 2006 22:40, Blogger James B. said...

When did you visit a concentration camp? Or the Anne Frank house. Monuments, with great importance of mankand. See and understand such a crazy war.
If you did, did the bus stop there actually? Or did you just fly over?


Hey, I have been to Dachau, I have been to the Pisarskoye cemetary with 900,000 buried in mass graves. I have seen what sophisticated Europeans do to each other.

I have even been to the cemetary in Potocari. Why are all those people there? Why were 7,000 massacred just a decade ago? Oh wait, it was because the Dutch Army stood by and watched. I had forgotten about that.

 
At 13 September, 2006 01:22, Blogger Screamin'Jesus said...

I don't know if you mention it, but onetime I burst into flames on the side of a building while falling out of my personal jet (which had just "fell" into the building) and I died. There should have been no way to "really" idenitfy me along with the other 150 or so passengers....BUT....luckily, they found my passport. I guess I had pressed down on the open window of the jet and thrown it out while we were airborn.

 

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