Wednesday, June 07, 2006

Have You Ever Heard a Quiet Fire?

The conspiracy theorists are always going on about explosions in the World Trade Center, and how this proves that there were demolitions used. Loose Change spent several minutes on this issue. I have asked them repeatedly, and I never seem to get an answer, if a jetliner smashes into a building at 500 MPH is it supposed to be nothing but windchimes and elevator music? What is it supposed to sound like? Thankfully, I have never been in the situation, but I would imagine it would sound like the world was coming to an end.

But regardless, in massive building fires, explosions happen, stuff burns, heats up, explodes, crashes to the ground. Ask any firefighter, it is a dangerous, chaotic, noisy experience. Here is an example. Does this prove that demolitions were behind this building fire? I suspect Karl Rove... OK, it was in Spain, Carlos del Rove then?

H/T Markyx

A raging fire swept through the upper levels of an empty, 32-story office building in downtown Madrid early Sunday, causing no serious injuries but collapsing the top floors in a shower of flaming debris.

Bright orange flames shot out the sides of the Windsor Building, which is near one of Madrid's main boulevards.

The fire started around 11:30 p.m. Saturday and was still burning out of control several hours later. At least nine upper stories were on fire and muffled explosions could be heard in the building.

It continues:

The blaze was still raging out of control in the early hours of Sunday, having reached a fire wall on the 17th floor and reached almost to street level. Explosions could be heard within the building and authorities cordoned off a zone some 500 metres in diameter in case it should collapse.


And why did they cordon off the area? Don't they know that fire can't cause a building collapse?

46 Comments:

At 07 June, 2006 17:04, Blogger MarkyX said...

Debunking these guys is too easy.

 
At 07 June, 2006 17:37, Blogger Chad said...

Well DUH guys!!

The building was in danger of collapse and needed to be cordoned off because it didn't have the extra material and stability that is easily provided by a 767 flying into it at 500+ miles per hour.

Shredded bits of aluminum fuselages have been proven to reinforce any structure over 3 stories high.

It's true, I read it on Wikipedia.

 
At 07 June, 2006 17:58, Blogger shawn said...

Explosions? In a fire?!

Now you're just pulling my leg.

 
At 07 June, 2006 19:25, Blogger BG said...

FBI States No Hard Evidence Connects Bin Laden to 9/11

 
At 07 June, 2006 19:26, Blogger Falco98 said...

what really irks me is the video featuring that smug-looking hippie dude narrating from the pier in hoboken where he videoed the towers' collapse. the whole time he makes smug assertions (at least half of which i could answer immediately by inserting some real-world logic and common-sense)... i just wanna hit him. but some new yorker will probably take care of that for me.

anyway: the whole time the video (along with inferring that helicopters are dropping bombs on the buildings, which is so silly that the video editor may as well claim they're martian flying saucers abducting the survivors), they keep making note of these soft, low-rumbling "explosions", as if to say that these sounds are explosions of demolition shortly before the buildings will collapse. My problem? haven't you ever heard the sound of wind blowing across the mic of a camcorder??? I'm willing to accept that there were explosions to be heard, but I have to wonder how a camcorder a few miles away across the river is somehow uncovering covert evidence that nobody at the base of the fucking buildings noticed. (this is all pre-collapse, i should re-emphasize).

If anyone's confused by which conspiradroid video i'm talking about, i believe this is the one.

 
At 07 June, 2006 19:41, Blogger MarkyX said...

bg, it states "hard evidence"

The only thing we got from Osama Bin Laden is a few tapes, but otherwise nothing concrete. The justice department probably thought they need more than just a few tapes to list him on the FBI site.

Does it mean we should stop chasing him? He did support indirectly to the attacks.

 
At 07 June, 2006 19:48, Blogger BG said...

Listen to this Interview (from earlier today)
Interview: BYU Physicist Steven Jones

 
At 07 June, 2006 19:48, Blogger ScottSl said...

New small article on Loose Change

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/06/05/911_documentary_removed/

 
At 07 June, 2006 20:04, Blogger shawn said...

Didn't we already discredit Jones?

And how could we have "hard evidence" of bin Laden being involved in 9/11? We didn't have hard evidence of Manson committing any murders, but he's in jail for the rest of his life for ordering a bunch of murders.

 
At 07 June, 2006 20:48, Blogger BG said...

Shawn,

This, Summation of Prosecutor Vincent Bugliosi in the Charles Manson (Tate-LaBianca Murder) Trial, seems to explain the criminal standard for a conspiracy to commit murder charge.

Let see, though, you guys think conspiracy theory is bunk......

Hmmm. It's a good think you weren't jurors in the Manson trial.

 
At 07 June, 2006 20:50, Blogger BG said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 07 June, 2006 22:32, Blogger CHF said...

Greetings, folks. Cool site.

I just had to drop a line on this issue.

When I was young I witnessed a three-story building on my street burn for a good 4 hours or so.

I heard explosions every so often and assumed it was simply the kind of explosions that usually occur in fires.

Only now, thanks to Loose Change, do I learn the dark truth: the CIA had rigged the building with bombs for some reason...

 
At 07 June, 2006 22:37, Blogger CHF said...

bg,

isn't Steven Jones the fusion researcher who thinks he's a structural engineer?

I think his expert opinion is cancelled out by that of my dentist.

 
At 08 June, 2006 02:13, Blogger nesNYC said...

But regardless, in massive building fires, explosions happen, stuff burns, heats up, explodes, crashes to the ground. Ask any firefighter, it is a dangerous, chaotic, noisy experience.

Hey, that's not what some fire fighters on 9/11 said, there were there and their radio transmissions don't lie. Also none of the above produces any sizable readings on a Richter scale.

 
At 08 June, 2006 02:19, Blogger nesNYC said...

Does it mean we should stop chasing him? He did support indirectly to the attacks.

Did they really even start chasing him? I doubt it. As we all know, the wars were for other reasons that are now clearly evident.

As for him supporting the attacks, he denied involvement so I can't see how he was supporting them.

 
At 08 June, 2006 02:37, Blogger nesNYC said...

Listen to this Interview (from earlier today)
Interview: BYU Physicist Steven Jones


Wow! I do belive we have the smoking guns!!!!!

 
At 08 June, 2006 02:41, Blogger nesNYC said...

Didn't we already discredit Jones?

No.

 
At 08 June, 2006 03:09, Blogger shawn said...

No.

I believe we did, jackass.

Good news on the war front, reports indicate Zarqawi is dead.

 
At 08 June, 2006 04:20, Blogger JoanBasil said...

WTC worker William Rodriguez said in one of the documentaries that the official version credits propane gas kitchen facilities in the individual offices with the explosions. So, the official version knows they have to explain those explosions somehow. Rodriguez said that he didn't find that explanation believable because the WTC buildings were "Class One" buildings and such propane tanks would not have been allowed. I've never seen one in an office either.

 
At 08 June, 2006 04:27, Blogger Chad said...

You know Joan, I love how eyewitnesses are your best friend until they report something that goes against your theory.

Then it's, "Well eyewitnesses are never credible."

 
At 08 June, 2006 05:14, Blogger MarkyX said...


Hey, that's not what some fire fighters on 9/11 said, there were there and their radio transmissions don't lie. Also none of the above produces any sizable readings on a Richter scale.


They were several floors below the inferno.

Why would people JUMP OUT OF THE GOD DAMN BUILDING if the fire was all calm?

 
At 08 June, 2006 05:15, Blogger MarkyX said...


Rodriguez said that he didn't find that explanation believable because the WTC buildings were "Class One" buildings and such propane tanks would not have been allowed.


You're using a guy who was hundreds of feet below as a judge? ROFLCOPTER

 
At 08 June, 2006 06:17, Blogger JoanBasil said...

If there were propane kitchen facilities in the offices, that can be nailed down for a fact; it isn't something you just surmise to explain away explosions. Rodriguez was a maintenance worker who did work throughout the complex, not just the basement, as I understand it.

People jumped out of the building from fear; I don't think it was in any way a decision to get away from the fire by jumping out of the building.

 
At 08 June, 2006 06:22, Blogger Alex said...

"People jumped out of the building from fear; I don't think it was in any way a decision to get away from the fire by jumping out of the building.

.......

I'm....truly....at a loss for words. Up to this point I'd thought you were fairly intelligent, but totally misguided. Now....how the hell am I supposed to answer that? You think....what? That people saw a waste-paper basket on fire, panicked, and threw themselves out the window? Wow. Just.....wow.

 
At 08 June, 2006 07:13, Blogger MarkyX said...


People jumped out of the building from fear; I don't think it was in any way a decision to get away from the fire by jumping out of the building.


Thank you for showing what I've been trying to show everyone else outside the CT circles.

You simply don't give a shit about the victims.

 
At 08 June, 2006 07:18, Blogger Chad said...

Joan.... Good God.

Do you honestly believe people would commit suicide out of FEAR?!?! Do you think 200+ people opted to never see thier wives/husbands/children/parents again because it was less scarey to jump?

I would LOVE for you to tell that to a surviving family member.

"Your husband made you a widow and left you to raise two kids on your own because basically, when you boil it down, he was a chicken shit."

No Joan.... They jumped because they had. No. Other. Choice.

 
At 08 June, 2006 07:19, Blogger telescopemerc said...

People jumped out of the building from fear; I don't think it was in any way a decision to get away from the fire by jumping out of the building.

Wow. That was incredibly stupid.

 
At 08 June, 2006 07:21, Blogger telescopemerc said...

I wonder if Joan would have said the same thing of the jumpers at the Triangle Fire? The poor wee gals must have just been a bit frightened.

 
At 08 June, 2006 07:25, Blogger telescopemerc said...

Methinks there are some strawmen in the room.

First, can someone tell me where is the 'official version' of events that mentions propane stoves? Until you can provide that from an 'official source' you're just beating strawmen.

As for what Rodriguez saw and heard, Fuel air explosions are not small, nor gentle.

 
At 08 June, 2006 08:36, Blogger BG said...

Presentation by Kevin Ryan From Chicago Conference - Video Download

 
At 08 June, 2006 10:46, Blogger CHF said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 08 June, 2006 10:47, Blogger CHF said...

bg,

Kevin Ryan?

The people who pass for credible sources in CT Land...wow. Who needs structural engineers when you've got water testers, right?

Joan,

as others have said, your statement was simply stunning in its ignorance and stupidity.

 
At 08 June, 2006 11:03, Blogger nesNYC said...

Ha ha ha ha!!! 2 500 lbs bombs drop on him and they find in one piece? Okay.. Hopefully, he's really dead this time. The last two times didn't help Bu$h's numbers enough, they had to make it look real good this time.

Also, this "event" is perfect for the war party. They get attention deflected from the growing Haditha scandal and "war" will now get accepted by a whole 2% more of Americans. Ya gotta love ;)

 
At 08 June, 2006 12:43, Blogger nesNYC said...

Ha ha! Check out the picture of Zarkawi they showed at the Pentagon!!!! Those must have been pretty precise 500 lb bombs to have blown up his body but leave his head intact!!!!! LMAO!

 
At 08 June, 2006 12:49, Blogger Chad said...

Ugh... It was so much more pleasant when you were away at conspiracy camp Nesnyc.

 
At 08 June, 2006 13:49, Blogger shawn said...

Also, this "event" is perfect for the war party. They get attention deflected from the growing Haditha scandal and "war" will now get accepted by a whole 2% more of Americans. Ya gotta love ;)

Since you nothing about Iraqi culture, research blood money. Then you might be more skeptical (funny how you're only 'skeptical' when it comes to an American claim).

Ha ha! Check out the picture of Zarkawi they showed at the Pentagon!!!! Those must have been pretty precise 500 lb bombs to have blown up his body but leave his head intact!!!!! LMAO!

Wasn't just his head left, killer. And didn't you see the aftermath when the Israelis took out the Hamas sheik? I could still make out his face.

 
At 08 June, 2006 13:50, Blogger shawn said...

you know nothing*

 
At 08 June, 2006 18:40, Blogger nesNYC said...

Wasn't just his head left, killer. And didn't you see the aftermath when the Israelis took out the Hamas sheik? I could still make out his face.

Now I know you guys are smoking sumthin' Did you get a load of the bombs going off from the videos? And we are to expect to see his head in one piece and not even his hair burned off? Yeah, it's like that passport found on 9/11; dejavu all over again!

 
At 08 June, 2006 19:06, Blogger shawn said...

Now I know you guys are smoking sumthin' Did you get a load of the bombs going off from the videos? And we are to expect to see his head in one piece and not even his hair burned off? Yeah, it's like that passport found on 9/11; dejavu all over again!

Way to not answer my post and just move on to something else. Zaqwari probably wasn't even killed by the explosive itself, but by the collapsing structure.

 
At 08 June, 2006 19:11, Blogger shawn said...

Zarqawi*

 
At 08 June, 2006 20:46, Blogger Alex said...

In 2001, 4 Canadian soldiers were killed and 8 wounded by a 500lb bomb dropped from an American fighter. I'm well aquainted with that incident because one of the dead was a friend of mine. None of those 12 were inside a structure which could have mitigated the effects of the blast. They were spread over an open field. The 4 dead would have been roughly 20 meters apart, with the closest 2 wounded being another 5 meters out on either side. So the damage caused by the bomb only caused fatalities within a 20-25 meter area. And this is OUTSIDE, in OPEN GROUND. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that, were a 500lb bomb to hit a building, the majority of the blast would be absorbed by the structure. People inside would not be "blown to shreds", they would be killed by either over-pressure, or falling debris.

In-Sync, don't you EVER get tired of being wrong?

 
At 08 June, 2006 21:28, Blogger James B. said...

Yeah, we lost 3 guys from 5th group unfortunately when they accidently called in a 2000lb JDAM within 100 meters of their position in open terrain. It also injured Hamid Karzai, but it did not vaporize them.

 
At 09 June, 2006 07:20, Blogger JoanBasil said...

Thats an interesting question that nesnyc poses about what would be the condition of bodies inside a building that was hit with that kind of airstrike. Can anyone look over the last 5 years and NOT say "We need more skepticism" after the "smoking gun turns into a mushroom cloud" crap that got us into this Iraq situation?

Re people jumping out of buildings - people throw babies from burning buildings with the firemen right there. Not a rational thing to do. They jumped from the WTC out of fear, not to save themselves. In fact, firemen made it to the 78th floor and if the buildings had not collapsed, survivors would have been evacuated.

 
At 09 June, 2006 09:21, Blogger James B. said...

You are insane, look at the pictures of the towers. The steel beams on the exterior were warping under the heat. The top was leaning. When the second tower collapsed they predicted it a couple of minutes ahead of time, they could see the progression.

Maybe it was just a really slooooooooowwwwww controlled demolition?

 
At 09 June, 2006 09:39, Blogger Chad said...

AAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!! Joan's back! I'm scared!! Quick someone find me a 92nd floor window to jump out of....

They jumped from the WTC out of fear, not to save themselves.

You. Are. Unbelieveable.

Obviously they knew that the jumping scenario would not end with them safely at home having dinner with their families. They knew they were going to die. Either by flame (which I hear is quite painful) or by suffocation(which is equally unpleasant). They opted to go out on their terms.

What EXACTLY were they afraid of Joan? Please... enlighten us.

 
At 09 June, 2006 14:36, Blogger Alex said...

Can anyone look over the last 5 years and NOT say "We need more skepticism" after the "smoking gun turns into a mushroom cloud" crap that got us into this Iraq situation?

Yes, any intelligent, reasonable individual could. You're just pissed off because you were too dumb to understand the reasons for going into Iraq in the first place. It's not my fault, nor is it Pres. Bush's fault, that the media chose to fixate on the WMD issue, and that most people have such selective hearing that they can't recall any of the other reasons.

They jumped from the WTC out of fear, not to save themselves.

If that's the way YOU act, I would LOVE to catch you standing by a window some time just so I can sneak up and yell "BOO!".

 

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