Friday, July 28, 2006

True Respect for the Passengers

Here's a nice little video tribute to Mark Bingham, one of the heroes of Flight 93. Or as Dylan and Uncle Fetzer would say, one of the "alleged" heroes. It's mostly stills of Mark, one of which will surely take your breath away--I know it startled me.

70 Comments:

At 28 July, 2006 16:15, Blogger Killtown said...

"Mom? This is Mark Bingham... You believe me, don't you?"

So do you guys think the REAL Mark Bingham said this to his Mom?

 
At 28 July, 2006 16:35, Blogger The Artistic Macrophage said...

Yes I do. I have often called friends, and identified myself by my full name. Would I do so with my mother, under NORMAL circumstances, no, but Think of the circumstances man.

You should be shamed of yourself for even commenting in this way. I am only glad you had the respect (I hope it was respect) not to say anything directly derogatory, although that can be left to your buddies over at LC.

 
At 28 July, 2006 16:36, Blogger Dog Town said...

Yes K clown he did! You are no one to judge how to act in his situation.You f'ing scum!!!

 
At 28 July, 2006 16:41, Blogger default.xbe said...

So do you guys think the REAL Mark Bingham said this to his Mom?

yes, we most certainly do

 
At 28 July, 2006 16:52, Blogger Killtown said...

If the circumstances were so grave, then at the most the real Mark would have said someting like "Mom, this is your son Mark". But no one and I mean no one immediately identifies themselves with their full name to their OWN MOTHER!!!

You believe me, don't you?

(LoL!!!)

 
At 28 July, 2006 17:03, Blogger Nutman said...

My mother knows multiple people with my name and has a hearing problem, I sometimes have to identify myself to her by my full name. Just because you wouldn't do it doesn't mean other people don't.

 
At 28 July, 2006 17:04, Blogger Killtown said...

Well, does Mark's Mom have a hearing problem?

 
At 28 July, 2006 17:07, Blogger The Artistic Macrophage said...

You are one ignorant, mean sob. I wish someone would show your vile comments to his mother. Maybe then, when she tells you the truth, you'll feel the shame that you should already feel.

You mock the dead. I cannot believe you mock the dead.

 
At 28 July, 2006 17:09, Blogger The Artistic Macrophage said...

and where do you get off telling us how people would react. You have no idea. You weren't there. You think you know how everyone would react in any situation?

 
At 28 July, 2006 17:19, Blogger Killtown said...

"Mock the dead"! How have I "mocked the dead"?

If Mark had said this:

"Mom, it's Mark."

Mark's Mom, "Who?"

"Mark Bingham, your son!"

Then I wouldn't think anything really suspicious about it. But the caller says "Mark Bingham" right off the bat. Totally out of normal character for a person to say to their real Mother.

 
At 28 July, 2006 17:22, Blogger Sword of Truth said...

So do you guys think the REAL Mark Bingham said this to his Mom?

Yes, I beleive that someone who has been told he is at the center of a truly earhshaking event that he may not survive will go out of his way to ensure that he will be remembered accurately.

You on the other hand, will be completely forgotten before you're 40 and will die alone in your parents basement with no one to remember even your nom de guerre let alone your real name.

You must be insanely jealous (and I mean that literally) of Mark Bingham and the heroes of United 93.

 
At 28 July, 2006 17:24, Blogger shawn said...

Killtown, this is why if I ever met you I would beat your ass.

And this is why it's funny how on the SLC forums you said "funny CTs don't know this and OCTs do". It's because you people are ignoranmuses and/or morons. Any sane person would tell you it's not out of the ordinary for people to say ODD THINGS IN A CRISIS SITUATION.

 
At 28 July, 2006 17:24, Blogger shawn said...

You on the other hand, will be completely forgotten before you're 40 and will die alone in your parents basement with no one to remember even your nom de guerre let alone your real name.


Funny, I always pictured him around 15-16 years old. Please tell me he hasn't reached adulthood.

 
At 28 July, 2006 17:29, Blogger 911coverup said...

It wasn't until I watched Flight 93 part 3 when I realized something was fishy about the "mom, this is mark bingham" line. I've never thought much of it until I realized how funny it was.

 
At 28 July, 2006 17:33, Blogger Dog Town said...

It is sooo nice to see sane people react to shat! KKK Clown is gonna get his one day! Karma is a Bit#%!
Yea' how is that basement about now? Enjoy cold damp places? It's called your soul!

 
At 28 July, 2006 17:34, Blogger ScottSl said...

http://www.markbingham.org/legend.html

 
At 28 July, 2006 17:40, Blogger The Artistic Macrophage said...

Who knows what was going through his head. for starters, he was talking to his aunt I believe, and then the phone was passed to his mom. That is when he said the "Mark Bingham" Line. Perhaps he wanted to make sure she knew it wasnt a cruel prank, perhaps the call was discussed with a fellow passenger before hand, at which time the discussed the need to say their full names.

I DON'T KNOW. I WASN'T THERE.

Oh wait...

NEITHER WERE YOU KT.

once again, claiming to know how things should have happened based on 20/20 hinesight.

In the one in a billion chance that we are wrong, then all we have done is been mislead.

In the overwhelmingly like chance that you are wrong, you have mocked the dead, and mocked his family, you have slung mud at them, and insulted them.

Think about that...

 
At 28 July, 2006 17:41, Blogger The Artistic Macrophage said...

alicehoglan@aol.com

that is her email, according to the Mark Bingham forum messageboard.

 
At 28 July, 2006 17:59, Blogger Dog Town said...

Geeze.... I hope that ain't a real e-mail !!! Satan,( insert favorite fictional deeateeey there ), only knows what that twit has mailed her. Karma is comen !!! As Frank sang sooo well,Some Day.......

 
At 28 July, 2006 18:05, Blogger Sword of Truth said...

I was looking at Bingham's memorial site and it hit me why KKKilltown is so quick to pick on him.

We know already that KKKilltown is a jew-hater and a nazi sympathizer, he thinks both Hitler and Osama are innocent:

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=7618

What likely pisses off KKKilltown is that Mark Bingham was gay.

The whole nation, republican and democrat, black and white, jew and gentile, gay and straight, except for a few loons, all agree that Mark Bingham was a hero. Mark Bingham is most aptly described in the 2nd verse of "America The Beautiful": Oh beautiful for heroes proved in liberating strife, Whom more than self thier country loved and mercy more than life.

That someone like Bingham could earn the accolades of a grateful nation and a place of honor in the pages of history just drives KKKilltown nuts. His prejudice and bigotry won't let him stand it, he just has to tear the man down out of a selfish desire to make himself feel like he isn't so small and pathetic.

Maybe it works inside your own little mind, KKKilly-poo. But not with us or the vast majority of your countrymen.

Go fade away, KKKT. We won't be missing you.

 
At 28 July, 2006 18:05, Blogger shawn said...

I've never thought much of it until I realized how funny it was.

Yeah, it's always hilarious how people say odd things when they're scared out of their mind. How about we chuckle about the guy going nuts over the phone while trapped in the WTC, and then guffaw as we hear him scream as the building collapses.

Man, I really want to beat the [crap] out of you [friggin'] jokes.

 
At 28 July, 2006 18:07, Blogger Killtown said...

You guys do see that he said the word "Mom" to alert his Mom that it was one of her children. But hey, maybe Mrs. Bingham has multiple kids named Mark from different fathers and all her children named Mark know to use their last name to identify themselves to her.

Call me crazy, but I'm going to stick with my gut feeling that it was not really her son who called her.

 
At 28 July, 2006 18:08, Blogger shawn said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 28 July, 2006 18:09, Blogger shawn said...

Call me crazy, but I'm going to stick with my gut feeling that it was not really her son who called her.

Unfortunately, she says it was him. I think I'm going to go with the woman who gave birth to him over some ignorant kind who doesn't know his [behind] from a hole in the ground.

They can't fake live calls, Einstein. Nor would they, it makes the conspiracy needlessly complex.

 
At 28 July, 2006 18:10, Blogger default.xbe said...

i know ive said this to you once before, but im sure your a better judge of who is and isnt her son than she is.

and im sure the conspirators who can make use of a non-existant technology to exactly mimic someones voice in real time was too dumb to come up with a convincing script

 
At 28 July, 2006 18:11, Blogger Sword of Truth said...

Call me crazy, but I'm going to stick with my gut feeling that it was not really her son who called her.

Sorry, mien herr. I can't call you "crazy".

Self centered jealousy and hatred aren't considered mental illnesses.

 
At 28 July, 2006 18:15, Blogger Killtown said...

They can't fake live calls, Einstein.

You're right...oh wait, you're WRONG!!!

When Seeing and Hearing Isn't Believing

Monday, Feb. 1, 1999

By taking just a 10-minute digital recording of Steiner's voice, scientist George Papcun is able, in near real time, to clone speech patterns and develop an accurate facsimile. Steiner was so impressed, he asked for a copy of the tape.


And remember this article was in '99. A lot of advancements can happen in two years.

 
At 28 July, 2006 18:24, Blogger The Artistic Macrophage said...

ahh yes, and so those people on flight 93, who only decided within 24h to take that actual flight, how did the government then get a 10 minute recording of their voice to then use for the fake calls???? pretty short notice, given the whole plan hinges on it....

 
At 28 July, 2006 18:26, Blogger The Artistic Macrophage said...

beyond faking the voice, if, by some freaking mericle, they could, they could never get the tone, the subtext, the sublties that make each of our voices unique. I mean the stuff beyond what your hearing...the context in which things are said....oh ya, and the safe number...howd they get that....hmmmmmmmmmmmm

 
At 28 July, 2006 18:27, Blogger The Artistic Macrophage said...

oh wait, i guess the bad evil government took them to a cave, tortured them or threatened them to speak for 10 minutes, then they took them away and did what with them???

 
At 28 July, 2006 18:27, Blogger default.xbe said...

in near real time

anyone who has ever played a PC game knows real time, and NEAR real time are two very different things

 
At 28 July, 2006 18:30, Blogger shawn said...

Killtown, do you know what "near" means? Perhaps, you should consult a dictionary.

And excellent use of fallacy that because there have been advancements in the past, we should assume future advancements.

 
At 28 July, 2006 18:42, Blogger default.xbe said...

another thing to consider is "near real time" refers to how fast the voice mask can be applied, but how fast can it be created?

more info on
voice morphing


There are basically three inter-dependent issues that must be solved before building a voice morphing system. Firstly, it is important to develop a mathematical model to represent the speech signal so that the synthetic speech can be regenerated and prosody can be manipulated without artifacts. Secondly, the various acoustic cues which enable humans to identify speakers must be identified and extracted. Thirdly, the type of conversion function and the method of training and applying the conversion function must be decided.

seems like thats somethign that could take a bit more than 24 hours

 
At 28 July, 2006 18:45, Blogger Sword of Truth said...

You're right...oh wait, you're WRONG!!!

Given the kind of thibngs you are so outrageously and horribly wrong about, you are in no position to be acting so haughty about anything.

http://www.ushmm.org/

 
At 28 July, 2006 18:59, Blogger MarkyX said...

Not to mention that Killtown doesn't show any sort of proof that this technology was used. Yes, it exists, so what?

Now if we some family members of the said victims saying "He didn't act his usual self" or suggesting that their behavior was a bit off, then you might have something.

So again, existence of technology is not evidence, but merely a possibility. I don't care for "what if" but "what is"

 
At 28 July, 2006 19:28, Blogger James B. said...

If it was faked, wouldn't they be using a script anyway? So it is just as illogical either way.

Besides, remember, Mark didn't just talk to his mom, he talked to 3 people. Amazing flexibility in a recording. Even if it was a person speaking live, how did he know who was who?

 
At 28 July, 2006 19:31, Blogger Pat said...

KT, I could absolutely see Bingham saying that if he were distracted. That's one of the very thin reeds that the 9-11 Deniers have staked their fake cellphones claim on. Note that Dylan thinks it's suspicious when somebody's too calm (Betty Ong) and thinks it's suspicious when somebody else is rattled.

 
At 28 July, 2006 19:35, Blogger Killtown said...

Now if we some family members of the said victims saying "He didn't act his usual self" or suggesting that their behavior was a bit off, then you might have something.

Ok...

"It sounded strange for her son to introduce himself by his full name."

Also look at the weird behavior...

"Mom? This is Mark Bingham," the voice said. It sounded strange for her son to introduce himself by his full name.
"I want to let you know that I love you. I'm on a flight from Newark to San Francisco and there are three guys who have taken over the plane and they say they have a bomb," he said.
"Who are these guys?" Alice Hoglan asked.
There was a pause. Hoglan heard murmurs of conversation in English. Mark's voice came back.
"You believe me, don't you?" he asked.
"Yes, Mark. I believe you. But who are these guys?"
There was a pause. Alice heard background noise. The line went dead.
"

Yeah, that wasn't strange.

If it was faked, wouldn't they be using a script anyway?

Why do you think the imposture used Mark's last name? Cause he was saying Mark's full name over and over in his head to remember that the imposture accidentally used his last name where he shouldn't have.

 
At 28 July, 2006 19:39, Blogger Killtown said...

Note that Dylan thinks it's suspicious when somebody's too calm (Betty Ong) and thinks it's suspicious when somebody else is rattled.

Didn't all passengers sound calm in the recordings? When I watched A&E's Flight 93 where I think they used the actually recordings, I was amazed how calm everybody sounded except the guy locked in the bathroom with his super-reception cell phone!

 
At 28 July, 2006 19:41, Blogger shawn said...

I was amazed how calm everybody sounded except the guy locked in the bathroom with his super-reception cell phone!

Dammit, you are a moron.

CELL PHONES WORK ON PLANES. Do you need it repeated over and over again?

CELL PHONES WORK ON PLANES.CELL PHONES WORK ON PLANES.CELL PHONES WORK ON PLANES.CELL PHONES WORK ON PLANES.CELL PHONES WORK ON PLANES.CELL PHONES WORK ON PLANES.CELL PHONES WORK ON PLANES.CELL PHONES WORK ON PLANES.

 
At 28 July, 2006 19:42, Blogger shawn said...

Why do you think the imposture used Mark's last name?

I like how Killtown says "alleged" in front of facts, but with things that aren't, he fails to preface with the term.

You meant to write "alleged imposture" (sic).

 
At 28 July, 2006 19:43, Blogger default.xbe said...

Why do you think the imposture used Mark's last name? Cause he was saying Mark's full name over and over in his head to remember that the imposture accidentally used his last name where he shouldn't have.

but why would he be saying his full name over an dover again? why would the voice actor even have to KNOW his full name? you CTers make no sense whatsoever

 
At 28 July, 2006 19:48, Blogger shawn said...

but why would he be saying his full name over an dover again? why would the voice actor even have to KNOW his full name? you CTers make no sense whatsoever

Also, why would the so-called imposter say something that would blow his cover like "Mom, you believe me?" or "This is Mark Bingham."

 
At 28 July, 2006 19:48, Blogger Killtown said...

Funny how every OCT's cell phone worked on planes, but every CT's cell didn't.

Funny how every OCT has heard the phrase "pull it" used as firefighting terms before Larry said it, but every CT hadn't.

Also funny how every at the WTC scene knew the 7 was going to collapse when no other building had ever collapsed from just fire and debris damage.

 
At 28 July, 2006 19:50, Blogger The Artistic Macrophage said...

Killtown.

How did the imposter get the combo to one woman's safe, and then recite it to the person on the other end, so that she could find her will??

 
At 28 July, 2006 19:51, Blogger Killtown said...

Also, why would the so-called imposter say something that would blow his cover like "Mom, you believe me?" or "This is Mark Bingham."

Funny coming from the same people who say 9/11 couldn't be an inside job because the perps couldn't keep it a secret for long and would let the cat out of the bag!

 
At 28 July, 2006 19:52, Blogger The Artistic Macrophage said...

Funny how fireman on the scene told reporters that they felt the building was going to collapse...or are you insinuating that those firemen were also part of the BIG CONSPIRACY (que the echo effect)!!!

 
At 28 July, 2006 19:55, Blogger Killtown said...

How did the imposter get the combo to one woman's safe, and then recite it to the person on the other end, so that she could find her will??

Yes, this one is strange. Seems she really knew for sure she was going to die...

" Elsa Strong says, "She said, 'Hi, Else, this is Lin. I just wanted to tell you how much I love you.' And she said, 'Please tell Mom and Dad how much I love them.' And then she got real calm and said, 'Now my will is in my safe and my safe is in my closet. and this is the combination.' And she just told me the combination of her safe. and then she just said, 'I don't know if I'm ever going to get a chance to tell you again in person how much I love you, but I'm really going to miss you.' And she said goodbye."

I don't know, sound all scripted to you?

 
At 28 July, 2006 19:56, Blogger MarkyX said...

Killtown, they used airfones.

You are attacking a strawman, again.

 
At 28 July, 2006 19:59, Blogger default.xbe said...

Funny how every OCT's cell phone worked on planes, but every CT's cell didn't.

well this is simple, CTers just quote one guy over and over again instead of testing for themselves

read
here


Funny how every OCT has heard the phrase "pull it" used as firefighting terms before Larry said it, but every CT hadn't.

not necessarily a firefighting specific term but i think most people would recognize it as referring to "retreat" or "leave" before "blow it up"

remember that dictionary site you linked to? go read ALL the defintions there (specifcially the one ABOVE "pull down")

Also funny how every at the WTC scene knew the 7 was going to collapse when no other building had ever collapsed from just fire and debris damage.

no other building had suffered that much damage before

and BTW, plenty of building have collapsed from fire and other damage

 
At 28 July, 2006 20:00, Blogger default.xbe said...

I don't know, sound all scripted to you?

so why couldnt they get this person to write "mark binghams" script?

 
At 28 July, 2006 20:14, Blogger shawn said...

Default, the first two things you quoted from Killtown are by far the most braindead comments I've ever seen in my life.

When I read his post on the forums I snorted milk.

 
At 28 July, 2006 20:21, Blogger Dog Town said...

Let us remember no one did it on site, in this situation , that CT Kooks love to site so often. The coversational aspect of voice morph is IMPOSSIBLE. No one can do it. Why do we argue with stupid idiots ? It is f'ing funny . That's why!!! You will go down in history KKK Clown. As one sad freak !!!! ! Hope that was your goal. Sucks for you!!! Dylan made money at it , atleast. YOU????

 
At 28 July, 2006 20:34, Blogger The Artistic Macrophage said...

You still didn't answere my question. Whether it sounds scripted or not, how did the "script reader" know the combination to the safe???

Because it wasn't a script reader, it was the actual person, and in her head was the combination to that safe.

 
At 28 July, 2006 20:36, Blogger The Artistic Macrophage said...

I always get a kick when CTers say "No other steel framed building has ever collapsed from fire." I often ask for the reference, and a list of all the steel framed buildings, through all of recorded history, that were ablase, but didn't collapse. Still haven't gotten that list yet...

 
At 28 July, 2006 20:45, Blogger Dog Town said...

Well, hell it takes time to make shit up. Just like those 67 interceps !!!!!! KKK Clown ?????

 
At 28 July, 2006 21:08, Blogger 911coverup said...

Duhh thanks for the reminder

Artistic this is where I got the info from about f16s scrambled to go after payne's jet 20 minutes after loss of contact

http://www.wanttoknow.info/991026dmn.orig

Anyway sorry for derailing the topic. Press on.

 
At 28 July, 2006 21:29, Blogger The Artistic Macrophage said...

http://www.ntsb.gov/Publictn/2000/AAB0001.pdf

This is a link to the official Safety Board report.

Look at the times.

933 EDT Contact Loss (accident occured)

952 CDT (That would be 1052 EDT) The F16 is within 8nm of the flight. That is 52+27=79 minutes from loss of contact to f16 within 8nm for escort....

 
At 28 July, 2006 21:30, Blogger The Artistic Macrophage said...

you'll find the times on page 3 of the report

 
At 28 July, 2006 21:41, Blogger Kodiak said...

thank you for putting that up, I didn't think that pictures like that would still affect me so long after the event. But when I saw the twin towers in the background shot, I couldn't stop the tears.

I noticed something else too, that he was smiling in all the pictures. He seemed (yes, from the pictures alone) to be a straight-forward happy guy. A guy who cared about making a difference.

A man who died making a difference.

A man who'd care that others were making a difference. Keep up this horrible*, necessary work in his name and in all our names.

*horrible that people would mock such a sacrifice, horrible that people would malign such an obviously caring man.

 
At 28 July, 2006 21:47, Blogger Kodiak said...

Another thought, I don't know about anyone else, but I've been known to answer my home phone with:
"Good afternoon (company name), Kate speaking..." before I could stop myself - to my mom, my sisters, my friends, all kinds of people... it isn't unheard-of

Before saying that it's strange that he said his full name (yes, even to his mother), please prove to me that it would have been strange *for him* to say his full name in *any* conversation...

Also, I'm going to say that i have a few sisters and that we sound eerily similar on the phone, we often have to distinguish who we are by saying who is calling... so even that bit isn't odd.

 
At 28 July, 2006 21:48, Blogger The Artistic Macrophage said...

Kodiak;

That is exactly why the people here do this. That reason, and so our future generations, now very impressionable, will get to see the evidence on the matter, not just rap videos selling sound bytes of heresay and speculation.

 
At 28 July, 2006 21:57, Blogger shawn said...

A man who died making a difference.

And this is what the CTs don't understand. We don't do this as government shills. We don't do it for a party. We do it for our fellow countrymen. The ones who died that horrible day none of us will every forget. And for the ones yet born who will only see the images and hear the stories. I'd rather they understand what truly happened that day then this nonsense spouted by people with an agenda and the critial thinking skills of chimps.

 
At 28 July, 2006 22:04, Blogger The Artistic Macrophage said...

hey I'm a Canuck, 9/11 was an American tragedy, but we felt it up north to my friend. I want my kids to grow up knowing that their dad believed in the truth backed up by the facts, not by raving lunatic heresay.

 
At 28 July, 2006 22:22, Blogger Pat said...

Kodiak, thanks, that was my reaction too. This is what these CT promoters will never get, is that their treatment of the heroes on Flight 93 is what has energized the anti-9-11 Denial Movement. They could have played their little games with controlled demolition and missiles into the Pentagon and I would have ignored them like I do "The End of the World is Near!" prophets. But when Dylan took on the passengers and pilots, I got angry, as did Gravy (whose work debunking these monsters stands alone).

 
At 28 July, 2006 23:13, Blogger Sword of Truth said...

Funny how every OCT's cell phone worked on planes, but every CT's cell didn't.

People tend to miss things that they wish not to be true.

http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/freeabs_all.jsp?arnumber=675091

IEEE Review, 19 March 1998

"Surprisingly, tests have shown that mobile phones actually work very well in the air. The aircraft structure does not prevent communication with the ground-the windows may well act as a form of slotted waveguide antenna-and coverage is excellent."


Hear that, kiddies? That's the sound a toothless inbred Alabama trailer trash with a swastika flag hanging from his wall makes when you destroy his religious beliefs.

 
At 28 July, 2006 23:24, Blogger Sword of Truth said...

hey I'm a Canuck, 9/11 was an American tragedy,

Not quite so... When you knock over the two biggest building in the financial center of our country's biggest trading partner, it is inevitable that Canadians will die. Osama, having been educated enough to know to hit america's financial capital would have also known this.... but he didn't care.

Twenty five of our countrymen were murdered on 9-11. here in Edmonton, we lost the Edmonton Oiler who before retiring from professional play, was a mentor to a young rookie named "Gretzky".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garnet_Bailey

Don't ever let anyone tell you that Canada was not attacked on 9-11.

 
At 29 July, 2006 01:07, Blogger Billythekid said...

That's it. Mark Bingham identifying himself by his full name. Never mind molten metal, free fall buildings, thermate, we now have ultimate proof that it was an inside job. Of course I don't blame CTs for being suspicious, they've got nothing else to cling on.

 
At 23 February, 2007 22:51, Blogger Pip said...

God, that music is excruciating commercial pap!

Next time I phone my mother and tell her my full name, I'll let you know. What a load of crap!

 
At 03 January, 2009 22:08, Blogger hr3george said...

Hear that, kiddies? That's the sound a toothless inbred Alabama trailer trash with a swastika flag hanging from his wall makes when you destroy his religious beliefs.

A team of over 250 volunteers from Alabama including physicians, nurses, construction workers, electrical engineers,and fireman among others were at Ground Zero in the early morning of 9/12 to help and assist in whatever capacity needed. I know many of those people and they do not live in trailer parks, have any missing teeth or are known to support Nazi's. Stereotyping only shows your ignorance.

 

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