Your Documents Please
It is of course the cardinal rule of conspiracy theorists, that you must latch on to any evidence that supports you, no matter how questionable the source or logic, while dismissing any evidence against you as faked. For example the 9/11 deniers claim there is no evidence of the hijackers, but when evidence is shown, it was planted. From Loose Change:
The 9-11 Commission says "The CVR's and FDR's from American 11 and United 175 were not found..." Yet, the FBI claims to have found the passport of Satam al-Suqami, which managed to fly out of his pocket, through the explosion and onto the streets of Manhattan below.Yes, not only did they "claim" to have found it. They also entered it into evidence at the Moussaoui trial.

But this wasn't the only document they found. Here is the passport of Saeed Al Ghamdi, recovered from the United 93 wreckage:

And the ID card of Al Hazmi from the Pentagon:

Not just the hijackers' documents survived of course. Here are the personal effects of CeeCee Lyles, the flight attendent on United 93 whose phone call to voice mail was also entered into evidence:

The Loosers continue by comparing the passport with the black boxes at the World Trade Center, which unfortunately were never found:
So, four different black boxes, made from the most resiliant materials known to man, were destroyed. Yet, a passport, made from a fragile material known as paper, managed to survive? Who writes this stuff?Well the black boxes are made out of strong materials, but unfortunately they are not indestructable. Here is a picture of the CVR from the Pentagon, which didn't even have 500,000 tons of building fall on it:

But remember, there is no evidence of the hijackers or the crash into the Pentagon...

53 Comments:
Extra, extra, read all about it! The 9/11 Commission is proven to be a crock of shit!
Ha, ha! I guess you guys will have to adhere to other lies to support the official fairytale.
And the ID card of Al Hazmi from the Pentagon:
Wait a minute, you mean to tell me an entire plane could vaporize, the black boxes damaged to the point they are unusable and still the passports survived? In Dylan's words, who writes this stuff? LOL!
Same thing as when a tornado
totally trashes a house but leaves
the glassware on the table
untouched. Random chance.
nesync: you link to a story that claims that the commission whitewashed the role of US foreign policy in making us a target of terror. What does this have to do with remote controlled missile firing drone holographs? Not much. Thank you for your lie of the day.
But wait! There's another lie - a "bonus" lie, I guess. "you mean to tell me that an entire plane could vaporise, the black boxes damaged to the point they are unusable"
WE never said the entire plane vaporised. YOU did. We have pointed this out a thousand times. In fact the vaporised idea is central to your version ("there's no evidence a plane hit the pentagon because there's no debris") and the non-vaporisation story is central to our theory ("there's debris everywhere you blind idiot").
You can't even get through a sentence without a ridiculous contradiction. The entire plane vaporised but the black box was damaged? Well damaged isn't vaporised, is it?
On the other hand with a conspiracy theory as ridiculously complex and incoherent as yours, you can't help but make a contradiction every time you say something.
Can anyone remember who's passport was found in the trunk of a car? I think it was Atta's.
Heh -
Remember your rewritten history, pepik! There was no passport. You're just a slave to the "official fairy tale." The one which has mountains of insurrmountable evidence to support it. And therein lies the proof of its fallacy.
Think about that.
Any day now the real "revised" truth will come out, courtesy of the 9-11 deniers. Maybe with the 56th Edition of LC. For sure, this time. Any day now.
Things like passports survived because of their insubstantialness. The plane shattered. The building broke, burned and fell. Something like a passport though, coulod easily be thrown clear of the destruction, wouldn't be damaged by a fall, and could easily survive having things dropped on it. Bent, torn, dirty, but still identifiable.
But I thought there weren't any hijackers?
bwhaahahahaha
(holding gut) those LC kids slay me.
I personally like the pristine red bandana "found" from "Flight 93 crashing" in Shanks! Oh no, that wasn't planted!
I personally like the pristine red bandana "found" from "Flight 93 crashing" in Shanks! Oh no, that wasn't planted!
"Hey guys we don't have enough stuff here to prove it was hijacked. That cockpit voice recorder is probably completely empty, it'll give us no insight into what brought the plane down."
"Hmm you bring up an excellent point...Johnson, grab a red bandana right away and plant it. No one will be the wiser. Muhahahahaha."
I personally like the pristine red bandana "found" from "Flight 93 crashing" in Shanks! Oh no, that wasn't planted!
Any luck finding that original plume, the one that was photoshopped onto Vals picture?
Have you spoken with the first responders yet?
This one kills me.
When the first plane hit, I looked outside my office building to see what looked like a ticker tape parade. You saw thousands of singed but intact pieces of paper flying around.
Now, according to the CTers, we would be more likely to see a rainstorm of body parts and large pieces of aluminum.
Are you all secular humanist a/k/a aetheists? Spit it out. I want to write an aritcle about all of you. It will NOT be a hit piece, like the scum bags write. It will be an objective portrayal of your stances on various matters.
It will be an objective portrayal of your stances on various matters.
Great!
I'm an athiest who is pro-choice, heterosexual, I prefer chocolate ice cream to vanilla, I like the white stripes and hate bob dylan. I'm pro-cute kids. I like the R train better than the N. I'm against my neighbors waking me up early in the morning. I'm pro-titanium and prefer green to blue.
Any other stances you need?
Excellent, open a thread over at the screwloose change forum, so we don't clutter this poor guy's debunking blog
Excellent, open a thread over at the screwloose change forum, so we don't clutter this poor guy's debunking blog
nesnyc,
the "root causes" of terrorism have what exactly to do with your theories? Do explain.
Maybe you should READ things before you link to them, dude. Just a suggestion.
killtown,
any luck on those interviews with flight 93 investigators?
1) Any luck finding that original plume, the one that was photoshopped onto Vals picture?
2)Have you spoken with the first responders yet?
1) You really think Val or the FBI would use a plume found on the internet for their photo??? {shaking head}
2) What would that have anything to do about Val's photo?
any luck on those interviews with flight 93 investigators?
I'm sorry?
I'm sorry?
Come now, Killtown. Does the handle "Murdervillage" ring a bell?
He repeatedly asked you some very direct questions and you went out of your way to never respond, and you still won't. Why not?
1) You really think Val or the FBI would use a plume found on the internet for their photo???
So they created an ordnace plume that looks nothing like a crash plume for the express purpose of passing the ordnance plume off as a crash plume?
This makes sense to you? Or are you just rationalizing because you cant find the original plume....?
oh, killtown's back, speaking of unanswered questions:
will you please provide specific evidence implicating the America and/or Israli governments in 9/11 or retract your statement?
Thanks
apathoid said...He repeatedly asked you some very direct questions and you went out of your way to never respond, and you still won't. Why not?
And what were these questions again?
apathoid said...
1) So they created an ordnace plume that looks nothing like a crash plume for the express purpose of passing the ordnance plume off as a crash plume? This makes sense to you?
No, none of her story does make sense. At least you agree it's an ordnance plume though!
Kodiak said...will you please provide specific evidence implicating the America and/or Israli governments in 9/11 or retract your statement?
I did, you refused to read it all.
Still think Chief Ganci was in on it, K? If not, who was?
"And what were these questions again?"
WHEN ARE YOU (Killtown) GOING TO PROVIDE PROOF THAT YOU TALKED TO FLIGHT 93 CRASH INVESTIGATORS???
Extra, extra, read all about it! The 9/11 Commission is proven to be a crock of shit!
Nothing in this text has any bearing on the actual events of 9/11 or the conclusions the commission drew in regard to the evidence. I bet nesnyc didn't even make it past the sensationalist headline.
BTW, a site that seems to find pleasure in bashing Israel and then cites a Jew who was partly responsible for inventing the atom bomb, can't be serious. Einstein's moral quibbles were understandable, but he also knew when it was time to put rosy-colored 'anti-war' sentiments aside.
Quit wasting time on KKK Clown!
I think his only true purpose, on the www., is to try and give people carpal tunnel syndrome!
He hates to answer questions direct. He goes on,and on about anything he can link to his pathetic excuse for a web page.
He has bothered ,or was the conduit for, this woman being harassed! Nessie you on the other hand are source of amusement. You atleast attemt to answer questions, for the most part. So enough with this pest KKK Clown!
PS KKK
Have you got the little kiddies over at Colbert, painting your little white fence for ya yet?
nesync: you link to a story that claims that the commission whitewashed the role of US foreign policy in making us a target of terror. What does this have to do with remote controlled missile firing drone holographs? Not much. Thank you for your lie of the day.
Remember what they say about roaches, it you see one, there's bound to be others... Simple, don't loose yourself in the "official" lies.
Killtown, you still haven't responded to my post here:
http://screwloosechange.xbehome.com/index.php?showtopic=135
In which I show many of the fragile things that survived the crashes.
Will you now be changing the way you present your story? If not, why?
I eagerly await your response.
Oh, and Killtown, I'm the one who's asled you about 30 times on different forums who, among the thousands of first responders and investigators, you've interviewed, and do they back up your story?
You've avoided the question again and again. Please answer now. .
Remember what they say about roaches, it you see one, there's bound to be others
Goddamn you people have a hardon for logical fallacies.
"Remember what they say about roaches, it you see one, there's bound to be others"
In other words: "yes, it doesn't back up my claims in the slightest. But it's all I've got, man..."
In fairness, I can't think of anyone who'd know more about cockroaches than nessie.
Are you all secular humanist a/k/a aetheists? Spit it out. I want to write an aritcle about all of you.
I have noticed that the stronger one believes in the Offical Story of 9/11 and fight against anything that contradict the OS tends to have a stronger resistance for God. Sure, this is not true in every case, but a pattern I have noticed.
I understand this pattern to be related toward their subject's attude towards God. See, if there is a God, which I believe there is one, God would hold all truth. To me, God is truth. And if there is not a God, there is no absolute truth. No absolute right, and no absolute wrong. All things become abstract because nothing is based on a single source. Therefore all things are relative to them. Since things are relative in the mind of aetheists, the void can be filed with what they want to believe, not what is truth.
And if the truth or the idea of what could be true hurts, the person can replace it with thier own truth and has no remouse for doing so as their sense of truth is based on their understanding and emotions of the topic, not on seeking truth.
To them truth is relative to their experince. When humans do this there is a very strong tendacy to hold on to that truth tighter as their truth is atacked. The holes in their truth can be ignored because it's relative. Yet the holes in the attcker's stories are expolioted. That schmuck Abby is a prefect example of this.
You'll see this mind set commonly in cults. For example, take the Jehovah Witness. They have been proven wrong so many times that the governing body passes the buck to the follower's discretion, yet indirectly reinforces their authority by saying the followers are "in the truth". To the JW, they believe they have the truth, and refuse to see what the Watch Tower did to the bible to hide the truth from thim.
Similer, OS'er believe they have the truth, and refuse to see what the ones in control has done with the truth. For example they refuse to accept that the Co-Chairman of the 9/11 Commisson stated that the government white wash 9/11.
So you see, seeking truth goes hand and hand with seeking God. The stronger one seeks God, the truth they seek will show itself to them. The less they seek God, the more they must rely on their own understanding.
Does that make sense? BTW, JW's worship the cult, not God.
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And Shawn, what the fuck are you doing? You look like you trying to cover a zit on your forehead. Learn how to salute boy!
Howto salute like an american
And Shawn, what the fuck are you doing? You look like you trying to cover a zit on your forehead. Learn how to salute boy!
If I showed you the whole picture, it's obviously me and a friend of mine goofing for the camera.
Does that make sense? BTW, JW's worship the cult, not God.
Never understood them. Why follow a religion when Heaven's already full?
Jack, perhaps the reason many 9-11 skeptics are atheists is becaus they apply the same critical thinking to the 911 CT as they do supernatural powers, e.g. PROVE IT!
When will the CTers abandon the lame controlled demolition and the cruise missile crap and concentrate on the simulation and war games happening during the real hijackings? No matter whether you think there was a consiracy within our government or not, these war games and simulations served to confuse NEADS, NORAD and the FAA while the hijackings were carried out. There is no real dispute about this.
In order to find out the truth, we must investigate the why and how about these simulations/war games.
Jack, perhaps the reason many 9-11 skeptics are atheists is becaus they apply the same critical thinking to the 911 CT as they do supernatural powers, e.g. PROVE IT!
9/11 skeptics huh? Hmm Let's look that word up....
One who instinctively or habitually doubts, questions, or disagrees with assertions or generally accepted conclusions.
Is that the word you really want to use?
Seams to me that your "9/11 skeptics" generally accepts that 9/11 was done by a group of terroist with no government involvement. CT are the ones saying that there was government involvement or that the government or the one in powers allowed it to happened, or helped it to happened.
I'm a bit confused by your statement due to what look to be improper use of the English language.
As far as proving God, short of showing you God, which one has ever seen, there is no way I can. However, God shows himself in his works. How can I prove to you what God has done in my life? That is way it's called faith. Anyone can love what they can see, feel, hear, taste, or touch, but who can love that which only show itself through its action with faith? Faith is like a light switch in a very dark room. When you switch it on you can see in the dark, without it you can't see anything.
Never understood them. Why follow a religion when Heaven's already full?
heh, funny you asked. Let me try my best to explain. In the early 1900's Charles Russell, using an literal interpretation of the 144,000 of Revelation 7 and 14, said that only people in his cult will go to heaven. However in the 1935, Joseph Rutherford realized that the cult will soon grow past that number. He created "two hopes" to cover his ass (You may recall Pual writes about only one hope). The lie goes something like everyone that joined before 1935 is annoited and goes to heaven and rule with Christ. The rest are bound to Earth for the rest of their lives. The as many end dates set by the 144K. The latest one was when the last of the 144K dies, Christ will return. Which is now changes to who ever saw the event of 1935. Crazy huh?
The turth is the number 144,000 is symbolic, like everything in Revelation. In Biblical numerology 12 is the number of govermental prefection. There were 12 tribes of Israel; 12 Apostles, 12 foundations in the heavenly Jerusalem; 12 gates; 12 pearls; 12 angels. 1000 means many. Thus the 144,000 of Revelation (12*12*1000) mean double prefection of the many. Aka, all believers in God.
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Jack, when we say "skeptic" we mean a "scientific skeptic".
Scientific skepticism or rational skepticism (non-US spelling, scepticism) sometimes referred to as skeptical inquiry, is a scientific, or practical, epistemological position (or paradigm) in which one questions the veracity of claims unless they can be empirically tested. In practice, a scientific skeptic generally focuses on debunking theories which they believe to be far beyond the mainstream of science, as opposed to a professional scientist, who focuses on extending scientific knowledge.
LOL!! So he's basicly saying 9/11 "skeptics" believes in the simplest possiabilty explanation.
I guess the simpleton thinking goes something like this:
1) We can prove there was planes.
2) We can prove there was terrorists.
3) We can't prove anything else.
Therefore planes flow by terrorists, acting alone did it. Everything else is questionable, and not to be consider.
Yeah, real truth seeking there!
dman said...
Same thing as when a tornado
totally trashes a house but leaves
the glassware on the table
untouched. Random chance.
Nice comment, but instead of just saying it, let's calculate the odds. If you were a betting man, what would you have bet on the random chance that the Passports could survive. Applying the atheist method of logic, what are the actual statistical odds of this having occurred?
LOL!! So he's basicly saying 9/11 "skeptics" believes in the simplest possiabilty explanation.
Simplest explanation considering the evidence.
But someone who values faith over logic wouldn't understand.
what are the actual statistical odds of this having occurred?
The odds are 1, since it happened.
Wow, I just realize someone laughed at scientific skepticism. That's very scary.
I luaghed because it's the way you guys use it to limited the evidence you will consider. You limit it to only what you can see, not on patterns or reasoning event. It's such a simpleton way of thinking.
BTW, my faith is based on logic. I have gone into th briefly with you before.
Basicly put, I'll drop my belief in God when you can proved DNA information can change with random muation.
Let me expand that a bit more... prove DNA can randomly changed for the better, and I'll stop believing in God.
You limit it to only what you can see, not on patterns or reasoning event. It's such a simpleton way of thinking.
HAHAHAHA you couldn't be more wrong, pal.
Basicly put, I'll drop my belief in God when you can proved DNA information can change with random muation.
God and evolution aren't mututally exclusive. I believed in evolution when I used to believe in God. They've shown mutation is quickly reproducing small organisms.
"The Loosers continue by comparing the passport with the black boxes at the World Trade Center, which unfortunately were never found:"
"You can't even get through a sentence without a ridiculous contradiction. The entire plane vaporised but the black box was damaged? Well damaged isn't vaporised, is it?"
And NOT FOUND isnt DAMAGED, right?
So the point is, that it is really very big random, if you can find a passport in tonns of paper and rubbish but you cant find those damned blackboxes, even if you should be looking for them.
But thats just another big random beside the lots that happened in this affair. Unbelievable how many maching randoms can happen in one day in one story...
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