Tuesday, September 19, 2006

We the Sheeple?

Edward Feser, on Tech Central Station, has a rather interesting, and rather philosophical, essay up on 9/11 conspiracy theories. It is well worth a read, and even has a polite reference to us. An excerpt to get you started:

The problems with such theories have been pretty thoroughly exposed by now. Here is just a sample: If the aim of the conspirators was to motivate the American people to go to war, why wouldn't the crashing of airplanes into the World Trade Center suffice? What was the point of secretly placing explosives throughout the towers - no small task - and thereby risking exposure? If the government was really willing and able to orchestrate such a massive conspiracy here at home, why couldn't or wouldn't it also carry out the far easier task of planting evidence of WMD in faraway Iraq? If the cell phone calls made from the hijacked planes were faked, how did the government find people capable of so perfectly mimicking the voices of the victims, and how did they acquire the detailed knowledge of their personal lives that would enable the hoaxers to deceive so many of the victims' loved ones and friends?

41 Comments:

At 20 September, 2006 00:43, Blogger nesNYC said...

why couldn't or wouldn't it also carry out the far easier task of planting evidence of WMD in faraway Iraq?

Cause it's far away and was run by a dictator who was on to the CIA dirty tricksters?!?!? Where do you get these people? Why does the obvious need to be explained to them? Maybe that's why they can't fathom that the Government could carry out this deed. They are mentally at the level of children.

 
At 20 September, 2006 01:27, Blogger Alex said...

Yes Nazinyc....the US can wipe out the Iraqi military in less than 3 weeks....but somehow can't manage to plant any WMD's over the next 3 years.

That's unusualy idiotic even for you man....

 
At 20 September, 2006 03:57, Blogger JPSlovjanski said...

Jesus moron, let me explain this to you if Alex's reply was too complicated:

They DEFEAT the IRAQI military, THEN THEY PLANT THE WMDS!

 
At 20 September, 2006 04:12, Blogger Good Lieutenant said...

"They are mentally at the level of children."

That's why the Loosers are made up of principally single high school males. They're smarter than everyone.

What a maroon.

 
At 20 September, 2006 04:19, Blogger Good Lieutenant said...

Sorry - single high-school aged males, goth losers, "punk rockers," anarchists, neonazis, Hollacaust deniers, UFO conspiracists, flim school rejects, Democrat bloggers, Democrat congresspeople, LaRouche supporters, etc.

A veritable onslaught of intellectual firepower there.

I hope nessie keeps trying to "debunk" us forever. There are few things in my online routine I enjoy more than reading the toxic waste that falls out of his keyboard into cyberspace.

Maybe that's why they can't fathom that the Government could carry out this deed.

That, or that the government didn't do this "deed." Fruitcake.

 
At 20 September, 2006 06:14, Blogger Chad said...

I asked one of the nutters at Ground Zero why Bush didn't plant WMDs in Iraq. His answer?

"Too risky."

Yes. According to this guy, finding people to pilot planes into buildings, plant countless explosives in the towers, destroy the entire World Trade Center, fire a missile into the Pentagon, and shoot down or fake Flight 93 is FAR easier than planting some yellow cake.

 
At 20 September, 2006 06:30, Blogger JoanBasil said...

There had been weapons inspectors all over Iraq. Does the author think that US troops could just find a toolshed full of weapons of mass destruction?

Mainly, this is another namecalling article, sneering at the people who distrust the official fantastic story of 19 hijackers - some of whom couldn't speak English - foiling all of our security, FAA, NORAD protections repeatedly on the same day.

 
At 20 September, 2006 06:32, Blogger JPSlovjanski said...

Ok I just figured it out:

Here's how they can plant WMDs, in a manner similar to the theory used by "no-planers".

STEP 1: Plant some highly radioactive material in a bunker.

STEP 2: Use the Secret Hologram Generator to generate an image of nuclear warheads stacked in the bunker.

STEP 3: When UN officials and inspectors come to try to inspect, show them the warheads through the open door, and claim they can't go in because there is too much radioactivity in there.

STEP 4: Destroy the bunker.

STEP 5: Have homoerrotic neo-con sex orgy at PNAC HQ to celebrate the victory until....

STEP 6: Rumsfeld stupidly goes on national TV and says, "Oh the nuclear warheads? No we just generated a hologram over some radioactive material!"

STEP 7: Alex Jones triumphs.

 
At 20 September, 2006 06:49, Blogger James B. said...

Mainly, this is another namecalling article, sneering at the people who distrust the official fantastic story of 19 hijackers - some of whom couldn't speak English - foiling all of our security, FAA, NORAD protections repeatedly on the same day.


How exactly does crashing a plane or threatening someone with a knife require a perfect competence in the English language? You need to get out more.

 
At 20 September, 2006 06:57, Blogger JPSlovjanski said...

Clearly the hijackers' apparent lack of knowledge regarding the use of the future perfect continuous tense as well as understanding the proper definition of "passive" forms makes flying a plane physically impossible by any stretch of the imagination.

 
At 20 September, 2006 07:05, Blogger CHF said...

Never mind the simple task of planting WMD...

Why bother at all with the Pentagon "missile" attack?

It didn't change a damn thing as far as US public opinion was concerned. So what was the point of going through all the trouble of replacing a 757 with a missile, and planting jet wreckage?

As usual the CTers think the conspirators would make thing exponentially more complicated that required.

Chad: I asked Les about planting WMD in Iraq and he said that Russian satelites would have spotted it because they managed to spot the lack of Iraqi troops preparing to invade Saudi Arabia back in 1991.

When I asked him what the problem would have been with using an Iraqi truck to transport the WMD....he just looked away.

 
At 20 September, 2006 07:07, Blogger CHF said...

Joan,

you complete tard.

The UN weapons inspectors were OUT OF IRAQ when the US army went in!

Please explain why the black ops people didn't then plant some WMD in the middle of the desert.

Would have required a hell of a lot less people than rigging up 3 buildings in NYC with bombs.

Yet it wasn't done.

Why?

 
At 20 September, 2006 07:10, Blogger JPSlovjanski said...

That dude was a moron if he couldn't figure out the difference between NOT spotting massive military divisions along a border and a truck delivering crates into a bunker(the planted weapons). Russian, nor any satellites, have magic X-rays that could see inside crates and underground bunkers.

 
At 20 September, 2006 07:28, Blogger Elmondohummus said...

"...19 hijackers - some of whom couldn't speak English - foiling all of our security, FAA, NORAD protections repeatedly on the same day."

The point is that security was insufficient. It has been stated repeatedly in many different news sources that NORAD's mission is to defend inbound airborne threats approaching the border, not those originating internally.

"At the time, the eyes and ears of NORAD were focused on aerospace threats launched far from the shores of the United States and Canada. The concept of an attack from within U.S. borders seemed almost inconceivable to a command created in the 1950s to address Cold War threats." (One example source).

Plus, does anyone remember that there was a light plane that crashed onto the White House lawn back in 1994? How did that one foil "all of our security, FAA, NORAD protections"? Answer: It didn't have to "foil" anything; those "protections" were far from perfect. In fact, 9/11 showed that they were rather insufficient. That's why changes have been made. But changes were necessary because the state of airborne security in the US prior to 9/11 was not sufficient to counter the threat.

And addressing the language issue: How does that matter? Until the hijackers boarded, there was no distinguishing them from other legitimate passengers, many of whom also don't have a good command of English, yet boarded the plane fine. After they took over, what does English language competence gain them? The ability to talk with Air Traffic Control? They didn't need that. They also didn't need a good grasp of the language to read the instruments, they just needed enough functionality to recognize the items which they needed - airspeed, altitude, the transponder on/off control, etc. - and no more.

The english language issue is just a canard. And the "foiling" of security issue falsely assumes that procedures were sufficient to begin with.

 
At 20 September, 2006 08:20, Blogger JoanBasil said...

http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/ci_4349951

You'll all enjoy the article. Very funny. Lots of good stuff; here's a little:

"This way, if some guy in a burnoose sets up a chemistry lab in row 24 and mixes hydrogen peroxide, sulfuric acid and acetone in a big beaker that is packed in 15 pounds of dry ice to keep it cool, and cooks up some triacetone triperoxide, or TATP, the passengers will be able, in the several hours it will take him to make the deadly explosive, to bring him under control, assuming the fumes haven't knocked Ahmed out. And they could nab the mastermind, too, the monocled guy in first class petting the white cat."

 
At 20 September, 2006 08:30, Blogger Lying_Dylan said...

Chad,
The fact that that Tin Foil Hatter responded, "too risky" to your question just proves how far gone and over the edge they are.

I mean regardless of what you argue they will believe utter bullshit.

The extremem emembers of the Tin Foil Hatters are complete sociopaths.

 
At 20 September, 2006 08:34, Blogger Lying_Dylan said...

Mainly, this is another namecalling article, sneering at the people who distrust the official fantastic story of 19 hijackers - some of whom couldn't speak English - foiling all of our security, FAA, NORAD protections repeatedly on the same day.

More statements from Joan that make little sense and like a birthday party balloon can be destroyed easily.....

OOOOH NOOOOOO they didnt speak English SO NO WAY they could hijack a plane!!!

What security did they need to foil?
prior to 9-11 there wasnt much security!!

NORAD WAS DESIGNED TO STOP THREATS OUTSIDE OF OUR BORDERS!!

Joan try hitting the pipe AFTER you post not before...maybe that would help.

 
At 20 September, 2006 08:58, Blogger lenox7 said...

Not only would it have been much easier to plant WMDs in Iraq, but if the master plan (or part of it) was to invade Iraq, why not make the identity of any of the hijackers Iraqi? The US govt pulled of this hugely fabricated plan to destoy the WTC and Pentagon, but neglected to plant any evidence implicating Iraq? Instead they implicate the Saudis, their buddies?

 
At 20 September, 2006 09:09, Blogger Alex said...

Ya know...the reason these fools have no problem beleiving this nonsense is because that's exactly the kind of operation you would get if you put Jones and Fetzer in charge of planning a false-flag attack. Just close your eyes and imagine their plnning session. It's really quite amusing.

 
At 20 September, 2006 09:10, Blogger shawn said...

Um how dumb are you inside jobbers?

Iraq has lots of desert. It's not as if Saddam has soldiers stationed on every part of his country. Nor are weapons inspectors crawling all over every inch of the country (they don't tend to dig randomly).

Bury a bunch of mustard gas in the desert and you're right as rain.

 
At 20 September, 2006 11:08, Blogger CHF said...

alex,

"use your imagination" is what I regularly hear from CTers when questioned on the hows and whys of their theories.

They're right, of course - do some hard drugs, let your mind flow and it all starts to make sense.

Once the high wears off, you'll find it suddenly doesn't make sense any more.

For some reason CTers never seem to reach that...um...sober stage.

 
At 20 September, 2006 13:16, Blogger The Artistic Macrophage said...

Joan:

for someone who is articulate in their writings, you are seem to uncharacteristically lack a similar articulation of co-herent and/or logical thought.

How can you tell me that the PNAC masterplan of planting explosives, crashing planes, faking hijackers, faking voices, killing 3000 of there own people, and keeping it covered up, is much easier to do than the following:

UN advises Weapons Inspectors and all diplomats to pull out of Iraq just prior to...US invades Iraq. Shortly after Saddam's regime is toppled, in an underground facility, US soldiers find the recently destroyed remains of a chemical weapons laboratory, along with several partially charred documents revealing details of how the chemical weapons factory conducted business.

Are you really that stupid. I don't think you are, so don't let your obsession with the big bad government sway you from logical thought please.

TAM

 
At 20 September, 2006 13:27, Blogger Jujigatami said...

TAM,

Don't you get it?

Its not that Bush couldn't plant WMD's.

Its that Queen Beatrix and Prince Harry wouldn't allow him to, so the US will appear weakened and make it easier for the NWO/illuminati to take over

/lunatic

 
At 20 September, 2006 14:57, Blogger Lying_Dylan said...

For some reason CTers never seem to reach that...um...sober stage.

Sadly one of these days some poor Tin Foil Hatter will reach the stage of climbing to the top of a tower with a few rifles.....

 
At 20 September, 2006 15:31, Blogger PopPop said...

If the aim of the conspirators was to motivate the American people to go to war, why wouldn't the crashing of airplanes into the World Trade Center suffice? What was the point of secretly placing explosives throughout the towers - no small task - and thereby risking exposure?

Because just the planes crashing into the WTC would've still left Silverstein's buildings standing. They would've simply had to repair the damages and it would've gone back to being the HUGE MONEY PIT THAT IT WAS PRIOR TO 9/11. Those towers were dinosaurs. They were a huge financial drain, their vacancy rates were rising every day, and it would've cost billions to fix all the problems.

The reason WTC 7 fell was because it held so many sensitive files and the white-collar crooks who perpetrated these crimes were just dying to conveniently have all the evidence against them destroyed. Oh look, there goes the offices of the SEC - I wonder how many stock scams and piles of evidence against wealthy white collar criminals conveniently got destroyed on 9/11. Let's also not forget about the TRILLIONS of Dollars that the DOD has somehow "misplaced" over the last few years and god knows what else that got wiped away too. There was lots of shit in that building. And again, it was owned by Silverstein.


If the government was really willing and able to orchestrate such a massive conspiracy here at home, why couldn't or wouldn't it also carry out the far easier task of planting evidence of WMD in faraway Iraq?


Is this guy serious? We basically did do that! We (referring to the US and Israel as one entity - specifically the OSP) FORGED NIGER YELLOWCAKE DOCUMENTS that said Saddam was buying Uranium to make WMD's! That was the legal reason for invading and that was a LIE...I consider that to be planting evidence. So we've done that...

BUT that alone wouldn't have been enough for the neocons in the WH to institute all their sick totalitarian policies like the Patriot Act and Homeland Security Act etc...the WMDs in Iraq by itself wouldn't have instilled enough fear into people to allow these crazy neocons to bring about the type of radical transformation that they all sought and outlined in PNAC. They needed an attack on home soil to gain the public support/submit the public for what they planned to do next. They outlined it in 2000 and they did it.


Afganistan has a multi-billion dollar Opium industry that is now exploding again under our control, after some dry years under the Taliban. There's also a big gas pipeline project that will cut through the country. Afghanistan is an important strategic location because they lie between some resources and the Indian subcontinent - it lies at the confluence of some major routes. Unocal said they dropped out of the race, but I wouldn't be surprised if we had something to do with it in the end. Pakistan will be a player in all of this as well, but they couldn't do this alone - they needed the US. Then to kill UBL and some al-Qaeda terrorists is a nice little bonus too. We couldn't leave Afghanistan out of the picture. All of this about Afghanistan was outlined by an Israeli cabal back in 2000...well before any war.

And is Iran next? Probably. Does anyone know who Valerie Plame is? Probably not. Well, after Bush and the Zionists lied us into war with Iraq...Joe Wilson (former Ambassador) who had travelled there many times, went there to verify the claims. Wilson soon discovered that the claims were bullshit, so when Bush made another speech to the American People repeating these false claims, Wilson knew they were lies and he went public in the New York Times and exposed them as deceptive.

In an attempt to discredit Wilson and prevent him from further exposing the truth...his wife Valerie Plame was exposed as a CIA operative. Plame's career was ruined and the company she worked for, Brewster Jennings & Associates, was compromised and exposed as a front for the CIA. Ironically enough, BJ&A's mission was to TRACK NUCLEAR WEAPONS PROGRAMS IN FOREIGN COUNTRIES! So what does this mean? Now we no longer have the means to track who has NUKES! So we can probably expect the fear mongering to kick up another notch at some point, because now we have no intelligence on Iran's nuclear program. They're probably also in a race against the upcoming AIPAC trials (Israel lobby spying), but the trial dates have been moved back 3 times already, so I wouldn't be shocked if it at least got pushed back until after elections.


If the cell phone calls made from the hijacked planes were faked, how did the government find people capable of so perfectly mimicking the voices of the victims, and how did they acquire the detailed knowledge of their personal lives that would enable the hoaxers to deceive so many of the victims' loved ones and friends?


Huh? If they were indeed faked, they didn't find people to mimic them you moron. They would've used voice-morphing technology that has been around for some time. All they would've needed was a 10 minute conversation, to get the full range of the person's voice, and they have software that can accurately mimic it from thereafter. One of the Israeli spy rings that has been caught in the US, was caught wiretapping our phones, so they could've easily got someone's voice from a past phone call. Why these particular people? I don't know. I do think there are some strange things about the phone calls and government edited alot of them out, so I wonder what they're not showing us...but frankly I think the phone calls are a pretty weak argument from both sides. There are much more interesting smoking guns out there, so I tend to leave the phone calls out of any arguments.

 
At 20 September, 2006 15:46, Blogger PopPop said...

I also want to add that the original article was completely moronic - it's even below SLC standards imo. I'm a little disappointed in you James. You know, I'd expect something like this from Pat, but not you man. Time to step up your game...

 
At 20 September, 2006 15:54, Blogger Lying_Dylan said...

Huh? If they were indeed faked, they didn't find people to mimic them you moron. They would've used voice-morphing technology that has been around for some time

AND NOT ONE of these mysterious people involved has come out and said ANYTHING.

Yet another douchebag spewing fantasies steps out of the gutter.

 
At 20 September, 2006 16:15, Blogger zippychippy said...

So let's not forget to add the Airfone operators as "in on it".

 
At 20 September, 2006 16:26, Blogger shawn said...

and they have software that can accurately mimic it from thereafter

They couldn't have had realistic conversations with people. There would've been a fairly large lag between responses.

 
At 20 September, 2006 16:27, Blogger shawn said...

Does anyone know who Valerie Plame is? Probably not.

Unlike you, we actually follow and understand world events.

And you'd have to be living under a rock to not have heard to that woman (and recently it was revealed all the nonsense over her was for nothing).

 
At 20 September, 2006 16:33, Blogger The Artistic Macrophage said...

Popcorn:
I will address this first:

I also want to add that the original article was completely moronic - it's even below SLC standards imo. I'm a little disappointed in you James. You know, I'd expect something like this from Pat, but not you man. Time to step up your game...


A very feeble attempt at "splitting". I have seen bipolar patients do it better on nurses and psychiatrists.

Because just the planes crashing into the WTC would've still left Silverstein's buildings standing. They would've simply had to repair the damages and it would've gone back to being the HUGE MONEY PIT THAT IT WAS PRIOR TO 9/11. Those towers were dinosaurs. They were a huge financial drain, their vacancy rates were rising every day, and it would've cost billions to fix all the problems.

So Silverstein is the mastermind Supervillain. Damn, and here I thought it was BUSH/PNAC/FEMA/NIST/ASCE/MSM/Aunt Debbie/The German Sheppard down the street. You mean now I have to put his name ahead of all those.

And in your world, we would convict him with flimsy heresay, opinion, and circumstantial evidence.

The reason WTC 7 fell was because it held so many sensitive files and the white-collar crooks who perpetrated these crimes were just dying to conveniently have all the evidence against them destroyed. Oh look, there goes the offices of the SEC - I wonder how many stock scams and piles of evidence against wealthy white collar criminals conveniently got destroyed on 9/11.

Neocon#1:well we could just have the evidence shredded.

Neocon#2: Nah, I like to blow shit up...lets bring the whole building down.

Neocon#1: ok..ya thats cool.


Let's also not forget about the TRILLIONS of Dollars that the DOD has somehow "misplaced" over the last few years and god knows what else that got wiped away too. There was lots of shit in that building. And again, it was owned by Silverstein.


Yes the Trillions of dollars that the DoD stole, and then were stupid enough to tell us was missing. Cause hiding that it was missing, or at least keeping quiet about it was too much fore them. Give me a break.

If the government was really willing and able to orchestrate such a massive conspiracy here at home, why couldn't or wouldn't it also carry out the far easier task of planting evidence of WMD in faraway Iraq?


Is this guy serious? We basically did do that! We (referring to the US and Israel as one entity - specifically the OSP) FORGED NIGER YELLOWCAKE DOCUMENTS that said Saddam was buying Uranium to make WMD's! That was the legal reason for invading and that was a LIE...I consider that to be planting evidence. So we've done that...


lol, that is even better. I thought the CT rebuttal to this was stupid before, but this is even better...

So, you say the Supervillains FORGED DOCUMENTS saying there were WMDs in Iraq, but then were too stupid or incompetent to plant the evidence they said was suppose to be there. These are same supervillains you say orchestrated the entire 9/11 group of attacks...okie dokie..

BUT that alone wouldn't have been enough for the neocons in the WH to institute all their sick totalitarian policies like the Patriot Act and Homeland Security Act etc...the WMDs in Iraq by itself wouldn't have instilled enough fear into people to allow these crazy neocons to bring about the type of radical transformation that they all sought and outlined in PNAC. They needed an attack on home soil to gain the public support/submit the public for what they planned to do next. They outlined it in 2000 and they did it.

So what your saying, is this group orchestrated an attack so they could go to war, make lots of money, but didn't bother, or couldn't plant the evidence that would insure they remained in power after 2008. No instead, your supervillain PNAC crowd did all this, and then said...screw it, we will just bog ourselves down here in Iraq, insuring public hostility at home, so that we can be outta office and power in 6 years...okie dokie again.


Afganistan has a multi-billion dollar Opium industry that is now exploding again under our control, after some dry years under the Taliban. There's also a big gas pipeline project that will cut through the country. Afghanistan is an important strategic location because they lie between some resources and the Indian subcontinent - it lies at the confluence of some major routes.


Proof. And I don't mean articles from pseudojournals, or misquotes, I want solid proof confirmed by multiple sources (not multiple articles with the same source) that the above is true wrt the pipeline. Oh and I would also like a figure quoted by an official source as to the value of the opium. Beyond this, last I checked, the US was in Afghanistan, but does not own it. You think they should be responsible for what drugs go in and out of there, anymore than any other country in the world?

Pakistan will be a player in all of this as well, but they couldn't do this alone - they needed the US. Then to kill UBL and some al-Qaeda terrorists is a nice little bonus too. We couldn't leave Afghanistan out of the picture. All of this about Afghanistan was outlined by an Israeli cabal back in 2000...well before any war.

Pakistan is a player in everything, so the point is moot. The rest is conjecture and opinion.

And is Iran next? Probably. Does anyone know who Valerie Plame is? Probably not. Well, after Bush and the Zionists lied us into war with Iraq...Joe Wilson (former Ambassador) who had travelled there many times, went there to verify the claims. Wilson soon discovered that the claims were bullshit, so when Bush made another speech to the American People repeating these false claims, Wilson knew they were lies and he went public in the New York Times and exposed them as deceptive.

In an attempt to discredit Wilson and prevent him from further exposing the truth...his wife Valerie Plame was exposed as a CIA operative. Plame's career was ruined and the company she worked for, Brewster Jennings & Associates, was compromised and exposed as a front for the CIA. Ironically enough, BJ&A's mission was to TRACK NUCLEAR WEAPONS PROGRAMS IN FOREIGN COUNTRIES! So what does this mean? Now we no longer have the means to track who has NUKES! So we can probably expect the fear mongering to kick up another notch at some point, because now we have no intelligence on Iran's nuclear program. They're probably also in a race against the upcoming AIPAC trials (Israel lobby spying), but the trial dates have been moved back 3 times already, so I wouldn't be shocked if it at least got pushed back until after elections.
Frauds. End of discussion.

If the cell phone calls made from the hijacked planes were faked, how did the government find people capable of so perfectly mimicking the voices of the victims, and how did they acquire the detailed knowledge of their personal lives that would enable the hoaxers to deceive so many of the victims' loved ones and friends?


Huh? If they were indeed faked, they didn't find people to mimic them you moron. They would've used voice-morphing technology that has been around for some time. All they would've needed was a 10 minute conversation, to get the full range of the person's voice, and they have software that can accurately mimic it from thereafter. One of the Israeli spy rings that has been caught in the US, was caught wiretapping our phones, so they could've easily got someone's voice from a past phone call. Why these particular people? I don't know. I do think there are some strange things about the phone calls and government edited alot of them out, so I wonder what they're not showing us...but frankly I think the phone calls are a pretty weak argument from both sides. There are much more interesting smoking guns out there, so I tend to leave the phone calls out of any arguments.


1. many of the voices you say were "mimiced" were from people who only decided to fly on that flight at the last minute, so how did they "wiretap" those people?
2. One of the calls had the victim reveal a safe combo in real time, how did they pull that off.
3. The "voice morphing" is not done in real time, and is not applied to a speaker in realtime. It is added to a recorded voice, so that the RECORDED dialogue sounds like it came from the actual person they are mimicing. The conversations, were just that, back and forth conversations, not recorded messages.

TAM

 
At 20 September, 2006 16:34, Blogger Alex said...

I shouldn't even waste my time, but I'm kinda bored, so here goes.

Those towers were dinosaurs. They were a huge financial drain, their vacancy rates were rising every day, and it would've cost billions to fix all the problems.

I've yet to see anyone explain just how exactly an office building becomes "obsolete". What, were the towers running low on RAM and needed new CPU's?

I've also yet to see anyone document just exactly what needed to be fixed. Or prove that occupancy rates weren't high enough to create a profit for the owner. OR show that low occupancy rates had anything to do with the condition of the towers. Think you could provide some actual information instead of rumors?

The reason WTC 7 fell was because it held so many sensitive files and the white-collar crooks who perpetrated these crimes were just dying to conveniently have all the evidence against them destroyed.

Hrm. Yeah, I guess they never heard of paper shredders.

Ofcourse, only an idiot would think that a company could erase all evidence of their "crimes" by destroying bunch of files. For a crime to exist, there have to be victims - and victims of financial fraud tend to have their own paperwork. Your idiotic statements are the equivalent of saying that if I were to destroy my credit card, I would no longer owe Visa $2,000.

We (referring to the US and Israel as one entity - specifically the OSP) FORGED NIGER YELLOWCAKE DOCUMENTS that said Saddam was buying Uranium to make WMD's! That was the legal reason for invading and that was a LIE...I consider that to be planting evidence.

It was only one of the reasons, and we found out that the documents were untrue before we invaded. And the question was "why wouldn't they plant evidence in Iraq".

the WMDs in Iraq by itself wouldn't have instilled enough fear...

Once again, you're not answering the question. The question is IF they were evil enough, and competent enough, to pull off the type of operation you claim occurred on 9/11, WHY wouldn't they ALSO plant evidence in Iraq?

radical transformation that they all sought and outlined in PNAC

You've obviously never read the PNAC report, otherwise you would realize that everything which has been done since 9/11 has been the exact opposite of what PNAC suggested. I'm not going to argue that point with you. Go read the damn report, THEN we can talk.

There's also a big gas pipeline project that will cut through the country.

No, there isn't. How many times do we have to state that? This rumor has been around since early 2002, yet not a single segment of pipe exists, nor does any company have any serious plans to build it.

Even if anyone had wanted to build such a pipeline before the invasion (which they didn't, but let's suppose), it would have made more sense to bribe the Taliban and just build it instead of first overthrowing them and then having to try and protect the damn thing from them.

All of this about Afghanistan was outlined by an Israeli cabal back in 2000...well before any war.

Easy there Ahmadinejad Jr. I don't suppose you'd like to document this claim? And no, Neo-Nazi websites don't count.

In an attempt to discredit Wilson and prevent him from further exposing the truth...his wife Valerie Plame was exposed as a CIA operative.

Wrong again. You really should keep up with recent events.

They would've used voice-morphing technology that has been around for some time.

In real-time? Not bloody likely. While it's possible (although difficult) to replicate someone's voice, it's pretty much impossible to do it in real time. You'd need extremely competent voice-actors, as well as some damn good audio techs, and you'd still more than likely make mistakes. I guess we can add actors and audio techs to the list of conspirators? My my, the list just never stops growing.

There are much more interesting smoking guns out there

Really? Could you name one? Because all of your "evidence" so far has been equally weak.

 
At 20 September, 2006 16:52, Blogger default.xbe said...

FORGED NIGER YELLOWCAKE DOCUMENTS that said Saddam was buying Uranium to make WMD's! That was the legal reason for invading and that was a LIE...I consider that to be planting evidence.

i would liek you to answer one question for me

are these conspirators geniuses or idiots? because i really cant tell anymore

they forged documents to show iraq was obtaining weapons grade uranium, but during the course of th einvasion they neglect to "find" any uranium, and instead make it known that they went in on bad intel and make themselves look like morons

 
At 20 September, 2006 17:08, Blogger shawn said...

Wow I missed where he says America and Israel forged the yellowcake documents.

The Italians "uncovered" the documents, not America or Israel.

 
At 20 September, 2006 18:50, Blogger The Artistic Macrophage said...

oh but Italy is in the USAs pocket, so it matters not to da boys of CT land.

 
At 20 September, 2006 19:06, Blogger default.xbe said...

whats the singular of sheeple? is it sherson?

 
At 20 September, 2006 20:06, Blogger CHF said...

Poppop,

Hey man, I totally agree!

I remember the days before I got a paper-shredder.

Every time I needed a document destroyed I had to rig up my apartment with bombs and blow the whole fucking place up!

Used to piss off my neighbours like you wouldn't believe, but what else could I do?

 
At 20 September, 2006 21:06, Blogger JoanBasil said...

artistic,
I dont recall saying anything about "PNAC" here. I posted here the other day an article by Paul Craig Roberts where he includes the possibility that Cheney, Bush et al had no idea who was responsible and were completely blindsided and they were afraid to tell the American people the government had no idea who attacked us so terribly so they created this Osama and the 19 hijackers story. Could be; I thought that story was fishy about former Sen. Boren and CIA Director Tenant (sp?) having breakfast when the attacks happened and Tenant tells Boren that it looked like the work of Osama bin Laden. I don't think any airplane hijackings had been connected to Osama bin Laden, let alone hijacked planes used as weapons.

Re the World Trade Center towers - yes, I think there were reports that it had been hard to rent those offices so the NY and NJ governments filled them up with a lot of government agencies.

 
At 21 September, 2006 04:07, Blogger JPSlovjanski said...

The documents were forged, but the question as to WHO forged them has never been resolved. Clearly they would not have been forged by Americans since they would be afraid of leaks, and the quality would have been much better. The Israelis might not have been afraid of the former but again, the quality would probably have been better.

If someone wants to find a real outrage, demand an investigation of THAT issue.

 
At 11 February, 2008 15:01, Blogger BULLET said...

well mister good leutennant or whatever the hell yur name is, its funny the people you mentioned to be the "ignorant voice" of the 911 conspirators have a better vocabulary than that of our president, im sure your narrow minded ass sleeps in a camo comfrter with a big ass american flag over your head, gdo forbid the united states govt. lied.... woah. and by the way the worlds most inteligent people will tell you the very same thing, asshole

 
At 11 February, 2008 15:05, Blogger BULLET said...

o and by the way the whole essay fro tech central....

well tehre is something called money, lots of money, more money than your whole town is worth, do you know how many people stood to become billionairs from the wtc collapse? and going to the middle east to plant bombs, cmon now...
and the mimiking voices? well lets see the govt can now (to our knowledge) tap into our emails, phone calls and even our x box live for crying out loud... its not totally off the wall that the phone calls were fake.

open your minds... pplease for the sake of this once great nation

 

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