Wednesday, October 18, 2006

Poll Abuse

The 9/11 deniers are back distorting another poll. One example, from Alex Jones site:

This past weekend saw the release of a new opinion poll revealing that 84% of mericans do not believe what the government says about the attacks on 9/11. Whilst this indicates a monumental awakening, it also means that there must now be co-ordinated effort to secure a true independent inquiry, and the subsequent removal from office and punishment of those who have consistently lied about and exploited 9/11 - including the President.

Well now 84% of Americans support them! You would think they could get more than 1000 people for their 9/11 anniversary rallies then...

This is, of course, a gross distortion of what the poll actually says. Here is the actual question (emphasis added):

When it comes to what they knew prior to September 11th, 2001, about possible terrorist attacks against the United States, do you think members of the Bush Administration are telling the truth, are mostly telling the truth but hiding something, or are they mostly lying?

The question is specifically about prior terrorist warnings, not about whether they believe the government about 9/11 in general. So basically what the CTs are saying, is that after 5 years of them telling us that there was no terrorist threat, and the attacks were carried out by the government, 84% of the American public believes that there was a threat of terrorism, and that the administration isn't being completely honest about what they knew about it.

That hardly seems to bolster their viewpoint.

11 Comments:

At 18 October, 2006 09:32, Blogger tym said...

As someone who believes AJ and the like to be full of shit, even I would have a hard time answering that I believe the administration was 100% honest or even mostly honest about it.

There was an error in threat assessment by both of the last presidents. This administration has attempted to downplay or deflect pretty much all the criticism on the 9 months they were in office before 9/11.

If you get a similiar poll that asks "Did the United States government actually have a direct role in 9/11 happening by either executing it or enabling it or knowing exactly specifically what would happen and turning a blind eye?", then there's no fucking way you get any higher than 15% of people saying yes.

Polls are stupid an inaccurate anyway.

To quote Mark Twain: "There are 3 kinds of lies: Lies, damned lies, and statistics"

It's so easy to manipulate the data, it's absurd that anyone actually tries to use it as evidence.

If 84% of Americans believe in Loose Change, shouldn't Loose Change have may more views and sold DVDs? Shouldn't all these sites be constantly slow from unbearable internet traffic loads? Wouldn't Alex Jones actually be showing up in the ratings in the markets he's broadcast in as at least a top 10 show in his timeslot?

 
At 18 October, 2006 09:54, Blogger Jujigatami said...

25% retarded, at least.

 
At 18 October, 2006 10:34, Blogger CHF said...

Rule # 1 about polls: you don't know ANYTHING about a poll unless you've seen the question(s) and possible answers.

According to how I'd answer most of the polls the kooks cite, I'm a conspiracy theorist!

I'd answer "yes" to whether Bush lied about 9/11.

I'd answer "no" to whether the guv has been honest.

Many people would answer the same. CTers take this to mean that X% of the population believes in demolition jobs at the WTC or missiles hitting the Pentagon.

If they've got as much support as they think they have then why the fuck don't they do anything with it?

 
At 18 October, 2006 11:04, Blogger Triterope said...

If 84% of Americans believe in Loose Change, shouldn't Loose Change have may more views and sold DVDs?

Exactly. If this many people believed in the conspiracy, they wouldn't need to misrepresent polls. Their numbers would manifest themselves in a real-world way.

As I said on the JREF board, there are over 1.5 million people in Manhattan. If even 10% of them believed in the conspiracy, that's 150,000 in Manhattan alone. And how many people did we see at the WTC site on 9/11/06?

 
At 18 October, 2006 11:25, Blogger tym said...

And to clarify, I don't doubt that the "stupid" levels go way higher than 25%.

Not all stupid people believe 9/11 was an inside job, but all people who believe 9/11 was an inside job are stupid.

 
At 18 October, 2006 11:30, Blogger Jujigatami said...

Tym,

You are right sir.

Classifying all stupid people as truthers is a direct insult to stupid people everywhere.

 
At 18 October, 2006 11:30, Blogger Lying_Dylan said...

That hardly seems to bolster their viewpoint.

But of course it does because they will spin it.

 
At 18 October, 2006 12:35, Blogger The Artistic Macrophage said...

They are outright lying at prisonplanet with this anyway.

The 84% they quote only results from adding up the 53% who think BUSH is hiding "something, with the 28% who think he is most lying, and adding in the 3% who are unsure.

How can you say the "unsure" dont believe BUSH...they are saying the are unsure...not that they believe or dont believe.

This is worse that manipulating the numbers, it is flagrant lying. The most they could claim is that 81% of the people polled felt BUSH was not being completely truthful about 9/11...which I would probably have voted for as well.

TAM

 
At 19 October, 2006 06:27, Blogger PhilBiker said...

This is worse that manipulating the numbers, it is flagrant lying.

And that's new for the twoofer?

 
At 20 October, 2006 22:11, Blogger insidejob said...

hahahahahaha. that's funny. rather than discuss the actual evidence, you Deniers focus on attacking convenient individuals and anecdotes. I don't follow Alex Jones, but this doesn't necessarily look like an intentional deception. regardless, it's pretty hilarious and ironic that you're using anecdotal dishonesty to discredit the (true) idea that the Neocons were involved in 9/11, considering that the Neocons themselves lied about WMDs, lied about a connection between Saddam and Al Qaeda, lied about uranium from Niger, and 25 years ago they lied about the Soviets developing such sophisticated weapons systems that they were "undetectable." all they do is lie lie lie. and you Deniers are also liars, or else in... Denial. when I try to get you to engage real evidence, you simply ignore it. so stick that in your PNAC employee Exxon-stock-havin pipes and smoke it!

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At 21 October, 2006 10:09, Blogger Alex said...

when I try to get you to engage real evidence, you simply ignore it

Problem is, you haven't posted anything like that. You post the exact same junk as Alex Jones walks about. So we asnwer and mock him since he obviously represents a large segment of you idiots.

Get some real evidence and we'll talk.

 

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